Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Are my standards too high

Rate this topic


Guest Mohsin

Recommended Posts

Guest Mohsin

Salaam, i am a 24 y/o male living in canada. I have been looking for a wife for about 6 months and haven't had much luck. I understand these things take time and I'm not impatient but sometimes the inability to find a spouse is not a divine test but rather the fault of the individual (ex if they have unreasonably high standards). I was wondering if you guys think my standards are too high or not. 

So far ive been looking for a woman that's practicing (prays, eats halal, chaste, akhlaq), good looking, works (nearly all women my age do so this doesn't really narrow my choices), and smart or at the very least not stupid.

Two things that put me off from previous women was that one did not align with me on a financial level i.e, she wanted an expensive mahr, wedding, and lifestyle. And the other definitely wanted to have kids soon after marriage whereas I want to wait until my 30s when I have finished some more graduate level education, right now I'm working but looking to increase my income in the future.

Do you guys think I need to adjust my standards because i just described a woman that does not exist lol

or do i need to just be patient and keep waiting for the right person? Jzk for all responses

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Salam, I think you should have gone for the second woman if that was the only issue. Your risq will come to you regardless, the time when your kids will be born is fixed. And you said you wanted to wait until your 30s, women won't be willing to wait 8+ years to have kids. 

I don't think you should compromise your standards on two things: Eman and Akhlaq. It's fine if she's not that good-looking or doesn't work. It's fine if you you don't get the exact circumstances you want in terms of income or house or location. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Forum Administrators
3 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

And the other definitely wanted to have kids soon after marriage whereas I want to wait until my 30s when I have finished some more graduate level education, right now I'm working but looking to increase my income in the future.

If she was suitable in all other respects, I think it may have been worth compromising here. It really depends on how much she would have expected you to take a role in their upbringing in the early years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
12 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

Two things that put me off from previous women was that one did not align with me on a financial level i.e, she wanted an expensive mahr, wedding, and lifestyle. And the other definitely wanted to have kids soon after marriage whereas I want to wait until my 30s when I have finished some more graduate level education, right now I'm working but looking to increase my income in the future.

I agree with you on those points.  and completely understand you. The 1st is a nightmare, I would avoid that.

If you're going for the second, I think perhaps spend at least 2 year before you have kids because that way you would've had enough time to get to know one another.

E.g. Bad/Good Habits, Financial/Work Circumstances, How family gets along, how planning to raise kids (Don't have too many kids) etc.

If you have kids soon after marriage, understand she won't be able to work a while.

It's very hard to find a good spouse in Western Country.  Maybe adjust your standard which you ones your can live with or overlook. Get your parents thoughts as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Wasalam brother,

This is my personal humble advice and take this with a pinch of salt because I'm just one year older than you and am not experienced or anything. At the end of the day you are your best judge and know all the information. One thing I would say is that whenever you set a standard for your spouse - make sure you meet that standard. That means you should be equally (or better) as good in terms of akhlaq, wajibaat etc. You should also be chaste. These are just some introductory thoughts to help you judge whether your criteria is realistic.

If you want to marry a woman who doesn't want kids asap then I would suggest looking into the 18 age range. My reasoning for this is because they have more flexibility in terms of age and normally they'd want to focus on studies at that age. You can also make it an opportunity to focus more on having a good time with her and creating a strong foundation which is very important.

Also this is my humble opinion and some may disagree to this. But have a think about it and remember that this may not apply to everyone - these are just general and preliminary thoughts.

I think it might be a bit better marrying girls who are younger (I'd say teenage age range)  even though they may not meet all your criteria - they are more likely to change at that age given they have the basic framework and do their basic wajibaat. Don't be quick to judge all of them and disregard the options. I do believe there are many good girls raised in the West they just need a man who is knowledgable, humble, pious and non-hypocritical. Having said this, I'm not saying there aren't women in their twenties who will meet your standard. So just keep an open mind. 

Overall, a good lesson you can take from this is to make sure that your genuinely meet the standard you set for your spouse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
12 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

Salaam, i am a 24 y/o male living in canada. I have been looking for a wife for about 6 months and haven't had much luck. I understand these things take time and I'm not impatient but sometimes the inability to find a spouse is not a divine test but rather the fault of the individual (ex if they have unreasonably high standards). I was wondering if you guys think my standards are too high or not. 

So far ive been looking for a woman that's practicing (prays, eats halal, chaste, akhlaq), good looking, works (nearly all women my age do so this doesn't really narrow my choices), and smart or at the very least not stupid.

Two things that put me off from previous women was that one did not align with me on a financial level i.e, she wanted an expensive mahr, wedding, and lifestyle. And the other definitely wanted to have kids soon after marriage whereas I want to wait until my 30s when I have finished some more graduate level education, right now I'm working but looking to increase my income in the future.

Do you guys think I need to adjust my standards because i just described a woman that does not exist lol

or do i need to just be patient and keep waiting for the right person? Jzk for all responses

I think overall this is not unreasonable, but there are three areas that you mentioned that you might want to think further about

1. 'Good Looking'. When you say this, do you mean a lady who is a replica of a Hollywood / Bollywood Star or super model ? That might be hard to find. You should consider a minimum in this area, rather than a maximum. You should think what you can and can't tolerate, and remove items from the list until you have maybe 1 or 2 things that you cannot tolerate then are flexible on everything else. For example, there are some men who cannot tolerate a women who is noticeably over weight or under weight. There is a saying in the US, 'The hill you want to die on'. In other words, if that is the hill you want to die on, i.e .the thing you are willing to fight for no matter what (to not have a wife who is under / overweight), then you need to be flexible on other things like facial features / structure, body proportions, hair color, skin color, eye color, height, age, etc. If you just want that, you will probably find it, but you will have to compromise on other things. Also, as I said in a previous thread, you have to realize that you have been 'brainwashed' in terms of only seeing certain features as 'Good Looking' and you should try as much as you can to not look at women on screens (as much as you can) prior to choosing a wife. 

2. Aklaq. Again, you should have a minimum for this rather than a maximum. I would say, at least in the younger generation, this is where women are most lacking (in general, although there are exceptions) and you can't be too picky about this (if you want to find a wife). I will give you an example from my own experience. My standard for aklaq was that I refuse to marry a women who is rude or disrespectful to her parents. This was my main criteria for aklaq. Before I met my wife, I met a lady who was stunningly beautiful, wore hijab, did the wajib, did not do the haram (that I knew about), was compatible in terms of age, etc. She met me and also wanted to marry me. So I went to her house to meet her and her parents. She knew I was American, and she though I didn't know any Arabic. What she didn't know is that I did know some Arabic at the time, i.e. the curse words at least. 

So we were sitting and talking, I was talking to her and her mother and father (she spoke English, her mother and father didn't speak very good English, but they knew some). Then for some reason she and her mother got up and went in the other room. They started talking, first in a low voice then it got louder. I could hear a little bit. Then I heard her say some bad words to her mother in Arabic. I asked my friend who was sitting next to me, who introduced us, 'did you hear her say that?'.  He confirmed that he did. So I finished my tea, told her that I wasn't interested, and left. She was stunned, but I told my friend to tell her the reason (after we left, I didn't want to get into a confrontation with her in front of her parents). 

So that was my standard. I accepted other things that I though were bad aklaq, but this is one thing I couldn't tolerate. So this is what I call a 'minimum'. The more standards you have for aklaq, the less likely it is you will find a wife. Again, this is the main thing I see lacking in this day and age so you can't be too picky. 

3. Wife working as a requirement. This is problematic since in Islam, the man is in charge of supporting the family. Even if the women makes a million dollars a year, she isn't required, by Islam, to spend one penny on the family and can use it all for herself, whereas the man is required to spend what he earns to support the family. This is clear in Fiqh and Hukm. So I think it is wrong to make this a requirement for a wife. At the same time, I know the realities of modern living, especially in the West. Unless the man is wealthy, to even live a middle class life requires both spouses working. My suggestion is that you structure your lifestyle so that even if your wife didn't work, you could still do the nafakha, and support children when they come along (food, clothing, shelter, basic education, and basic medical care). This doesn't have to be fancy or impressive, just that you can pay for it with your income. Then if your wife chooses to work, she can help and contribute and maybe you can get some nicer things, but don't depend on her income for the nafakha, unless she explicitly agrees to this, I would even say in writing. 

Also I know, at least in the US and Canada, the property markets are extremely crazy right now. Houses that were $200,000 a few years ago are now selling for over $400,000. I think that if you get married, you should wait to buy a house until the markets calm down. They will, InShahAllah, probably in the next few years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
12 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

So far ive been looking for a woman that's practicing (prays, eats halal, chaste, akhlaq), good looking, works (nearly all women my age do so this doesn't really narrow my choices), and smart or at the very least not stupid

Any specific reason you want her to work? Do you mean is financially independent, or you mean someone who has their own interests and hobbies that occupy them, or you mean someone willing to chip in with your financial responsibilities? Works= employed? Does self employed count? A blanket "works" seems rather a vague standard. Also, what happens for cases you meet who are currently working and wish to retain the choice to stop "working" in the future, or those who are not working by your definition and would want to keep their options open to working should they feel the need to do so. Would you consider one who stays home and handles all domestic chores and management a "worker"?

One thing I have also noticed in many marriage counselling/divorce/mediation sessions is that a lot of people seem to over focus on what the other party is bringing to the table in a marriage as opposed to what they have to offer/bring to the table which another party may find acceptable/likeable. These often lead to conflict down the line, as whatever the other party brings to the table is definitely not within your control, and should it go off the table after you are in the marriage, or they decide to take it off the table, then where does that leave you? I get the feeling that people looking to marry should find people within their generally acceptable bracket that they can live with who are happy with what they (the person looking) is able to bring to the table. This does not just refer to material things, but also what kind of character, morals, upbringing, principles etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Forum Administrators

The further geographic distance you look, the more options you will have, but you may have long distance barriers. Like education and families far apart. 

If you focus locally, you have fewer options but less logistical difficulties and better mechanisms of evaluating compatibility (in real life, not just online).  

If you live in certain cities of Canada (especially GTA but anywhere else too), you get the best of both worlds. In that case, wait it out. You may have the luxury of being “pickier” than others. You’re starting the search early enough. Even waiting one month may completely change your opportunities. And I’ll say the obvious, time isn’t as disadvantageous for men. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Mohsin
5 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

Salam, I think you should have gone for the second woman if that was the only issue. Your risq will come to you regardless, the time when your kids will be born is fixed. And you said you wanted to wait until your 30s, women won't be willing to wait 8+ years to have kids. 

I don't think you should compromise your standards on two things: Eman and Akhlaq. It's fine if she's not that good-looking or doesn't work. It's fine if you you don't get the exact circumstances you want in terms of income or house or location. 

 

5 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

If she was suitable in all other respects, I think it may have been worth compromising here. It really depends on how much she would have expected you to take a role in their upbringing in the early years.

The issue is that going back to school when you have children is very difficult. On top of that I would either have to stop working or reduce my hours, how can i support children on a part time income? I can not

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Mohsin
3 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

3. Wife working as a requirement. This is problematic since in Islam, the man is in charge of supporting the family. Even if the women makes a million dollars a year, she isn't required, by Islam, to spend one penny on the family and can use it all for herself, whereas the man is required to spend what he earns to support the family. This is clear in Fiqh and Hukm. So I think it is wrong to make this a requirement for a wife. At the same time, I know the realities of modern living, especially in the West. Unless the man is wealthy, to even live a middle class life requires both spouses working. My suggestion is that you structure your lifestyle so that even if your wife didn't work, you could still do the nafakha, and support children when they come along (food, clothing, shelter, basic education, and basic medical care). This doesn't have to be fancy or impressive, just that you can pay for it with your income. Then if your wife chooses to work, she can help and contribute and maybe you can get some nicer things, but don't depend on her income for the nafakha, unless she explicitly agrees to this, I would even say in writing. 

Also I know, at least in the US and Canada, the property markets are extremely crazy right now. Houses that were $200,000 a few years ago are now selling for over $400,000. I think that if you get married, you should wait to buy a house until the markets calm down. They will, InShahAllah, probably in the next few years. 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, ummulbaneen said:

Any specific reason you want her to work? Do you mean is financially independent, or you mean someone who has their own interests and hobbies that occupy them, or you mean someone willing to chip in with your financial responsibilities?

It is very expensive to live on one income nowadays, so I want to find a woman who is ok with sharing the expenses. Someone who agrees that it’s better to live on OUR $100,000 rather than just on MY measly $50,000 (examples not real salary). Most women that i have spoken to do not seem to mind this. Although it is not islamically required for women to spend on the house, in  my opinion it is the most fair when both spouses pay bills, do chores, etc. As long as she agrees to this setup i don’t think its islamically problematic

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Mohsin
31 minutes ago, Reza said:

You’re starting the search early enough. Even waiting one month may completely change your opportunities. And I’ll say the obvious, time isn’t as disadvantageous for men. 

How long do you think it takes for most guys to find someone? I feel like i should have started looking earlier and i could have been married by now

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
28 minutes ago, Guest Mohsin said:

 

It is very expensive to live on one income nowadays, so I want to find a woman who is ok with sharing the expenses. Someone who agrees that it’s better to live on OUR $100,000 rather than just on MY measly $50,000 (examples not real salary). Most women that i have spoken to do not seem to mind this. Although it is not islamically required for women to spend on the house, in  my opinion it is the most fair when both spouses pay bills, do chores, etc. As long as she agrees to this setup i don’t think its islamically problematic

There is nothing wrong with that as long as you always keep 2 things in mind

1) She is not required to use her income to support the family, in Islam. So that mean she is contributing of her own free will, and can stop working whenever she wants and you cannot force her to work and contribute. 

2) You should not make your lifestyle such that if she stopped working your family would suffer greatly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Forum Administrators
2 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

The issue is that going back to school when you have children is very difficult. On top of that I would either have to stop working or reduce my hours, how can i support children on a part time income? I can not

That sounds somewhat extreme.

Would the lady who wanted kids early not have been willing to look after them full time? Alternatively, if she wanted you to help out by working fewer hours I'd imagine she'd have been able to go out to work herself and perhaps get paid more than you.

If the above two don't apply then it sounds as if you are best shot of her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Mohsin
3 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Alternatively, if she wanted you to help out by working fewer hours I'd imagine she'd have been able to go out to work herself and perhaps get paid more than you.

Needing to work fewer hours is not in order to help out with the kids but Rather because the masters program is so rigorous, most people can not handle a full time job on top of the coursework

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Guest Mohsin said:

Needing to work fewer hours is not in order to help out with the kids but Rather because the masters program is so rigorous, most people can not handle a full time job on top of the coursework

I got my master's degree in a technology field while I was married and I was working full time and paying all the bills (my wife wasn't working). I'm not superman or anything. I also graduated with a 3.8 GPA. I told her when we got married that we would wait to have kids until after I finished my degree. So we did and after I finished my degree, we had kids. 

So I think you should just find a lady, get married, keep your expenses to a minimum, and don't have kids till after you finish. That is manageable for someone who has energy. If your wife still wants to work, she can, but like I said try not to depend on her income to meet your basic monthly expenses. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Basic Members

Hey, as a women I don't see that you have a high standers at all. You want to be with some who's standers align with yours. The first woman didn't fit you finically and the 2nd one didn't meet your life goals as of right now. It's hard to find someone that have the same standers as you and I'm telling you from experience but still I don't want to be with someone who I know we can't fit finically, emotionally and physically. Yes I will adjust my standers when I find the right person as long as we the same priorities in life. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Mohsin
11 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

 I told her when we got married that we would wait to have kids until after I finished my degree.

So I think you should just find a lady, get married, keep your expenses to a minimum, and don't have kids till after you finish. 

So then not choosing the second woman who wanted to have kids before i finish my degree was a reasonable decision on my part i think. I think two other brothers disagreed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

 

It is very expensive to live on one income nowadays, so I want to find a woman who is ok with sharing the expenses. Someone who agrees that it’s better to live on OUR $100,000 rather than just on MY measly $50,000 (examples not real salary). Most women that i have spoken to do not seem to mind this. Although it is not islamically required for women to spend on the house, in  my opinion it is the most fair when both spouses pay bills, do chores, etc. As long as she agrees to this setup i don’t think its islamically problematic

Why not find a woman willing and able to live on your income, and in the event she has an income or decides to work, then IF she chooses, her income can supplement your lifestyle.

When Islam says that the man should provide, it comes with some of the authority the man needs to be the head of the house. There is a danger of having two heads of the house when you expect her to bear some of the man's islamic duties, then do not complain when you find she "wears the pants" in the house. 

Lets say she agrees to work, then two kids into the marriage she feels overwhelmed by working and parenting, and you have been accustomed to her footing her bills and basically sustaining herself and possibly "her" kids. Will it mark an end of your marriage?
 

Marry a girl who is content with what you can provide, because if she is not, and if you are walking into a marriage expecting a woman to take up some of your duties, there is a high likelihood you are setting yourself up for conflict. I am telling you this from several first hand experiences I have seen and am seeing. It has gotten so bad here, sheikhs are now taking the pulpits to reiterate to men that they can only blame themselves for the strong headedness they are witnessing in the homes when they asked a woman to go halves on his duties without wanting to go halves on his rights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
1 hour ago, Guest Mohsin said:

So then not choosing the second woman who wanted to have kids before i finish my degree was a reasonable decision on my part i think. I think two other brothers disagreed

I think it was a reasonable decision. If she is that insistent on having kids right away, she might not be the right wife for you. She might be the right wife for someone else 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Basic Members
1 hour ago, Guest Mohsin said:

So then not choosing the second woman who wanted to have kids before i finish my degree was a reasonable decision on my part i think. I think two other brothers disagreed

Could there have been a compromise? I would suggest this next time. Nonetheless, I think both you and her handled the situation well as most young couples would have just gotten married anyway, choosing emotion over logic. Also, it is wise to marry a woman who is 'smart'. Imam Hussain ((عليه السلام).) said, 'A smart man and a dumb woman will raise dumb children. A dumb man and a smart woman will raise smart children'. I was surprised by this hadith, but it is important. Intelligence includes knowing one's religion. 

You are still very young, although it may not feel that way. My best advice, although you don't appear to need it, is to have a long engagement (at least a year) even if you are very confident and not to rush into marriage. Write down any potential warning signs, especially 'gut feelings'. When you're 'in love', you will ignore these, until you come back down to reality. Focus on deen. This is the most important. Marry someone who is already there. We can't 'fix' someone, only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can.

:bismillah:

Indeed, [O Muḥammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided. 28:56

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ummulbaneen said:

men that they can only blame themselves for the strong headedness they are witnessing in the homes when they asked a woman to go halves on his duties without wanting to go halves on his rights.

Our grandfathers also used to ask their wives to go halves on his duties. In the sense that cooking and cleaning is not islamically required for the wife to do. They split the responsibilities of life in half: husband does all the effort outside the house, wife does all the effort inside. (Yes, islamically a man must help his wife with the chores but as we know many men did not in the past). A husband and wife coming to an agreement that they will share both the financial and domestic responsibilities does not mean that they have any excuse to oppress each other.

In my opinion this is an older way of thinking that a man has to carry the entire financial burden with little help while the woman carries the domestic burdens with little help. Of course he should not force his wife to pay bills but there’s nothing wrong with them coming to such an agreement with each other. Especially nowadays when most young women are educated i think it becomes a point of good akhlaq on the wife to ease her husbands financial burden in this difficult economy. Similar to how a husband may forgo intimacy if his wife gives an islamically invalid reason that she is “tired” or “not in the mood”. Its akhlaq
 

furthermore, if we encourage people to marry young, young men right out of college will not be able to support their wife. You don’t make much money at entry level positions

Edited by Uni Student
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
14 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

Salaam, i am a 24 y/o male living in canada. I have been looking for a wife for about 6 months and haven't had much luck. I understand these things take time and I'm not impatient but sometimes the inability to find a spouse is not a divine test but rather the fault of the individual (ex if they have unreasonably high standards). I was wondering if you guys think my standards are too high or not. 

So far ive been looking for a woman that's practicing (prays, eats halal, chaste, akhlaq), good looking, works (nearly all women my age do so this doesn't really narrow my choices), and smart or at the very least not stupid.

Two things that put me off from previous women was that one did not align with me on a financial level i.e, she wanted an expensive mahr, wedding, and lifestyle. And the other definitely wanted to have kids soon after marriage whereas I want to wait until my 30s when I have finished some more graduate level education, right now I'm working but looking to increase my income in the future.

Do you guys think I need to adjust my standards because i just described a woman that does not exist lol

or do i need to just be patient and keep waiting for the right person? Jzk for all responses

Look don't go with expensive Mahr and life style. The other girl that you said wants to have kids after marriage (probably 1 or 2 years after marriage) seems to be a good girl. Don't wait until 30s. It's not good. If you like her face and her aklaq, go back to her send her a message and start talking to her. Tell her one or 2 years after marriage you are ready to be a father. You can do your graduate study or job things. Usually wives would be helpful in taking care of kids and getting along with their husbands. You should also try to do your best to provide and spend time with your family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

Guest Mohsin - here are my thoughts as a good looking, educated, muslim that grew up in the west, in my mid-30's.  
1) There is never a good time to get married, have kids, expand your education, etc.  
2) Women have a biologic clock.  The risk of genetic disease in children increases as they get older.  If they want to have kids sooner rather than later, this is good.  The last thing you want is a woman who puts off kids till the late 30's because of a career, and then you have a hard time having them.
3) Looks are certainly important.  However, science and experience show that the more you get to know someone, and you enjoy their personality, the more attractive you'll find them regardless of what you thought of their looks before.  A gorgeous woman will look more gorgeous, and a below average woman will probably be above average.  Think about looks, but don't get hung up on them.
4) Chastity is important, and I have somehow managed to mantain mine.  However, it is become more and more common for most young Muslim boys and girls to not be able to maintain it.  The longer they go without marriage, the greater the temptation and opportunity for them to do haram things.  Keep this in mind for both yourself and your future spouse.  You may not remain chaste, and you may have a hard time finding a chaste spouse in the future.
5) Don't disregard women your age or slightly older.  In retrospect, it may have been better to marry a 30 year old when I was 28, than marry a 32 year old when I was 34.  In the former I could have been happily married for 6 years, possibly with kids, less of a rush on the biologic clock.  In the latter, I'd just be starting a relatinoship, less time to have a honeymoon period without worrying about the clock.
6) I think having a wife work is great, so long as it's because she wants to work, not because you make her.  As someone else said, it's the man's responsibility to support his wife and family.  That being said, an idle mind is a devil's workshop, and having a wife that works keeps her busy.  Even if she doesn't work to earn money, working as a volunteer in a school, or for a charity, could be another option.  
7) I have plenty of friends that have PhDs, or MDs, or masters degrees, and many had children while working on these degrees.  They found a way to make it work.  They took out student loans, they lived a simple life, and a few had family support.  It's possible to have a family while still in school.  It may mean paying back more in loans later, but you can always pay back money.  You can't ever get back time.
8) You could spend a lifetime looking for someone that checks all the boxes and is perfect for you, and not find them till you're both 50.  You could also find them tomorrow, but not realize they're perfect for you because you've only been looking a short time and you'll only realize they're perfect after they've married someone else.  Don't look for perfection and all the check boxes checked.  If you get most of the way there, spend some time getting to know them.  Give them a chance to explain their positions.  Explain yours.  Don't give up on someone too soon.

Good luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Mohsin
1 hour ago, coldcow said:

The last thing you want is a woman who puts off kids till the late 30's because of a career, and then you have a hard time having them.

I have plenty of friends that have PhDs, or MDs, or masters degrees, and many had children while working on these degrees.  They found a way to make it work.  They took out student loans, they lived a simple life, and a few had family support.  It's possible to have a family while still in school.  It may mean paying back more in loans later, but you can always pay back money.  You can't ever get back time.

Thank you for your well written response. Personally my plan has been to have kids early 30s which is an age i still see many women having children although not ideal i agree. I definitely can not imagine work + school + marriage + kids. I would not be able to do justice to my children. 

1 hour ago, coldcow said:

4) Chastity is important, and I have somehow managed to mantain mine.  However, it is become more and more common for most young Muslim boys and girls to not be able to maintain it.  The longer they go without marriage, the greater the temptation and opportunity for them to do haram things.  Keep this in mind for both yourself and your future spouse.  You may not remain chaste, and you may have a hard time finding a chaste spouse in the future.

At this point to be honest after patiently waiting for so long despite the Muslim guys around me not doing waiting  and even teasing me for it. This is just one of the things i can never compromise on i would rather stay single. Because i feel like if i put in the effort to wait, being a man, then my wife needs to have done the same considering it’s easier on her being a woman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

Thank you for your well written response. Personally my plan has been to have kids early 30s which is an age i still see many women having children although not ideal i agree. I definitely can not imagine work + school + marriage + kids. I would not be able to do justice to my children. 

Just remember, sometimes it takes years for couples to have children when actively trying.  Sometimes they can accidentally get pregnant as well.  You may have everything planned out, but Allah may have different plans.  

3 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

At this point to be honest after patiently waiting for so long despite the Muslim guys around me not doing waiting  and even teasing me for it. This is just one of the things i can never compromise on i would rather stay single. Because i feel like if i put in the effort to wait, being a man, then my wife needs to have done the same considering it’s easier on her being a woman.

Good for you brother.  I'm shocked at how far things have gone in this realm.  I would have never imagined it even a few years ago.  Perhaps I was just naive, or willfully ignorant.  Regardless, just be aware that your wife may not be entirely truthful.  Also, temptation exists at every corner.  It took a lot for me to stay chaste, so much so that it has taken a toll on my mentally, and the mental safeguards I used to keep myself chaste may make it difficult for me to emotionally connect with a prospective spouse.  

Regarding the bolded part: This isn't entirely true.  Most women like sex just as much as men, and quite a few have a desire for it that is greater than their spouses.  I think historically there has been a double standard that has led to the misconception that women don't want sex as much as men.  I think they frequently do, they are just more selective about their partners as there are more potential repercussions for them.  With the invention of modern birth control, condoms, and the freedom to travel about, you're seeing more and more of them act like men have acted throughout history - seeking pleasure for themselves.

At the end of the day, the decision is yours.  But as someone that missed out on very good opportunities and girls in the past because I was too rigid, take it from me, time waits for no one, and people are complex creatures.  The person that meets all the check boxes on paper may not be the best person for you.

Good luck though.  If you need any personal advice, feel free to PM/reach out.

Edited by coldcow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
9 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

Thank you for your well written response. Personally my plan has been to have kids early 30s which is an age i still see many women having children although not ideal i agree. I definitely can not imagine work + school + marriage + kids. I would not be able to do justice to my children. 

 

As you make decisions and plans, also keep in mind that Allah sends each child with their own sustenance/rizq, and rizq is not just money/food, but also time, energy, ability, marital peace and stability etc to the parents to raise them. Two of my friends got married early in medical school and had children while in school. My cousin who is also a doctor just had her second child while an intern, and the two children are 17/18 months apart in age. All these say that they were surprised how easy and smoothly things went. For my cousin, just as she got married, covid hit, and the school year went slightly off, between working/schooling from home and a somewhat less crowded hospital, she actually had it a lot easier and even went through covid twice while pregnant but says it was surprisingly easy. Her final year also happened to be her best performing year academically. No amount of planning and orchestrating our lives can guarantee ease. God forbid, one can plan a perfectly timed child when everything should go perfectly well then get blessed with a child with extreme special needs, or go through a major unexpected economic crisis.

Plan within reason, but do not use your plans to put off good opportunities which have turned up in your life (Allah has brought into your life), including having children in the prime of your youth with a person in their prime. Trust me, it is very different having children in your mid twenties when you actually have the energy to keep up with a toddler, to having a toddler in your early forties.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
13 hours ago, Uni Student said:

 

In my opinion this is an older way of thinking that a man has to carry the entire financial burden with little help while the woman carries the domestic burdens with little help. Of course he should not force his wife to pay bills but there’s nothing wrong with them coming to such an agreement with each other. Especially nowadays when most young women are educated i think it becomes a point of good akhlaq on the wife to ease her husbands financial burden in this difficult economy. Similar to how a husband may forgo intimacy if his wife gives an islamically invalid reason that she is “tired” or “not in the mood”. Its akhlaq

Help and akhlaq is all fine when things are nice and dandy.. but in the event of any disagreement, Islam has created and placed these rules and laws with a great hikmah behind them. There have been plenty of people who forfeited their rights and had no problems with that, as they got lucky and had good partners. There are those who forfeited their rights and suffered great harm and loss as a result of that. When that happens, the law will come in and will bind you, whether or not you agree to it or think it is outdated. Also remember that when you form the intention to marry and support your wife and children, Allah will provide means and expand your rizq to cater for theirs. Just as Allah provided for her meals and rizq while she was at her father's house, HE will continue to provide it when she comes to your house. And its not an akhlaq issue to take up duties that are not ones religious duties, rather it is a compromise. A compromise comes with the disclaimer that it may or may not have the intended effect, and is not binding to be kept up by the compromiser when they feel it is burdening them. So do not plan your life around someone else's compromise, rather plan your life and what compromises you are willing to make. Let the other party make their choices and compromises on their own, and if they bring any extra ease/benefits to your plan, well and good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

It seems reasonable, but you must keep in mind that most of these things can change. Everyone changes. What matters is core personality and values. You might find a woman who checks all the boxes perfectly, and in a year or few, she doesn't. Or you might compromise on a few things and in a year or few find that she has become perfect for you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

Also, keep in mind that as time goes on, your pool of potential spouses decreases over time.  Many religious girls will get married early to avoid haram.  Many of the single ones that are left, have not been religious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Mohsin
39 minutes ago, coldcow said:

Also, keep in mind that as time goes on, your pool of potential spouses decreases over time.  Many religious girls will get married early to avoid haram.  Many of the single ones that are left, have not been religious.

How do i make sure I’m not lied to in this regard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
On 1/7/2022 at 7:12 PM, Guest Mohsin said:

How do i make sure I’m not lied to in this regard

Do keep in mind that a woman's past is their past, and if they've truly repented, then Allah has likely also forgiven them for their sins.  So you shouldn't hold it against them.

That being said, there is no way to prevent it.  Some will be honest with you, some will not.  If you're specifically worried about virginity, history is full of examples of ways in which women have managed to cover up their lack of virginity.  It's nothing new.  Though, Islamically speaking, virginity shouldn't matter.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Guest Mohsin said:

How do i make sure I’m not lied to in this regard

You can't prevent it 100% but most men make the mistake of asking specific questions while not thoroughly examining the lady's character, in general. You should ask the specific questions about past relationship. At the same time, the more important thing is talking to the people who know her, not her parents because almost always they will back up whatever she says, to see what her general character is like. You need to talk to as many of these as possible, and then try to get a picture from that

This is why I highly recommend marrying someone who you have previous connections with, either thru family, work, school, etc. That way, you already have some idea about her general character. That is also why I highly discourage marrying someone from another country, whom you don't have any of these connections with. These kinds of marriages have a high failure rate and many of the spouses marry under false pretenses because one or both spouses have very little chance to do investigation before marriage. Just look at the threads on ShiaChat about marital problems. Most of these are the situation where the spouses were pushed together, didn't know much about each other, then found out later in the marriage some things that they had a very hard time dealing with. 

Just look at the two most successful marriages in History, Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and Lady Khadija((عليه السلام)) and Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) and Fatima((عليه السلام)). Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) knew Khadija for years thru working for her before the marriage took place. Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) also was the cousin of Fatima((عليه السلام)) and knew her for years before they got married. None of these marriages happened until the spouses got time to become familiar with each other before the marriage. So this should give us a clue as to how we should proceed with choosing a spouse. Give preference to the ones you have more information about vs those you have less information. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Mohsin
1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

the more important thing is talking to the people who know her, not her parents because almost always they will back up whatever she says, to see what her general character is like

Would her friends not also back up whatever she says? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Guest Mohsin said:

Would her friends not also back up whatever she says? 

You want to try and find people who know her, but are not too close with her. Her friends, not her close friends. You obviously don't want to talk to her enemies. They will also give you faulty information and will probably make up bad things about her that might not be true. So you want to try and find neutral people, people who have nothing to gain by you marrying her, and nothing to lose if you don't marry her. That's what I mean by objective.  Also, that they know her. They are the ones most likely to give you unbiased information, which is what you need. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...