Have any women on here done muta’ah?

[HopefulBeliever]

I’m wondering how common it is for women to do mut’ah. I’m in my late 20s and have tried every avenue to try and find a suitable long term husband. I’m thinking about this as an option in order to avoid haram. 

[Mark Enlightment]

Mut'ah tends to be done behind curtains as the social stigma against it is quite strong. Generally only some young men openly say that they do it as the stigma isn't as harsh against them, unlike the fair sex.

Hence, many of the women who entered a temporary marriage won't answer you, although I assure you that many women do.

[HopefulBeliever]

Thanks for your response. I guess that makes sense but was hoping that people would respond on here because  SC has a level of anonymity. 

[islamicmusic]

 

[ummulbaneen]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:59 PM, HopefulBeliever said:

I’m wondering how common it is for women to do mut’ah. I’m in my late 20s and have tried every avenue to try and find a suitable long term husband. I’m thinking about this as an option in order to avoid haram. 

If the option to engage in it is because of avoidance of haram, one must consider the possibility that they would then have exposed themselves to the impossibility of remaining without whatever they experience in the temporary solution, and thereby be forced to engage in the temporary solution (mutah) as a permanent habit. 

This would come with its own set of consequences, so one must know and measure all possibilities of making such a decision. There are hadith which do not look favourably upon women (previously unmarried) who engage in mut'ah, and considers them a "stain" upon their families. 

Again, think of all possible solutions and consequences, not just the plus sides of an option. I am sure that even the sisters who have had terribly negative consequences here are not willing to talk about them even on an "anonymous" thread, so you may get a skewedly rosy picture of the whole scenario based on those who talk about it and had good situations (which if you look at the thread posted) seem to be more like an engagement before a permanent marriage, or a halal dating zone with the person they identified for permanent marriage anyway. This does not seem to be the case for you.

[HopefulBeliever]

2 hours ago, ummulbaneen said:

remaining without whatever they experience in the temporary solution

It's a very valid point which I've been thinking about. I doubt I'd follow through... I'm just doing some research.

I just don't want to be celibate for the rest of my life.

2 hours ago, ummulbaneen said:

a "stain" upon their families. 

Isn't this a major double standard and doesn't it wrongly put virgin women on a pedestal?

[coldcow]

7 hours ago, ummulbaneen said:

This would come with its own set of consequences, so one must know and measure all possibilities of making such a decision. There are hadith which do not look favourably upon women (previously unmarried) who engage in mut'ah, and considers them a "stain" upon their families. 

5 hours ago, HopefulBeliever said:

Isn't this a major double standard and doesn't it wrongly put virgin women on a pedestal?

This absolutely is a double standard and it makes no sense.  I'm not a fan of mutah.  We can debate that another time and place.  But in a "ideal world" according to Islam, everyone would be Muslim right?  Everyone would be getting married when they are able to.  If, in that world, mutah was practiced, then only mulslim men would be doing it with muslim women.  And unless you wanted to create a class of people that were only available for mutah, then by the numbers, at some point virgin women would be engaging in it.  Additionally, many people on here will argue that it is preferable to engage in mutah with non-muslim women.  Again, in an ideal world everyone would be muslim, so how do you do this?  Do you just seek out people who are divorced or widowed and prey on them?  I don't know.  I think people have double standards in their minds.

Regardless sister, I commend you on remaining chaste to this point in your life.  Believe me, from what I've recently learned, there are many more than I thought who cannot say the same.  As someone in his mid-30's, I can assure I feel your struggle.  I've been thinking a lot about why I'm not married, and part of it is likely my fault, and I'm working on my flaws.  If you want some honest feedback and thoughts, please feel free to PM me.  I'll keep it halal.  There's some things you can fix, there are some you can optimize, and there are some that are out of your hands.  Insha'Allah it'll work out.  But whatever choice you make, ensure you've thought it through.

All that being said, I definitely think mutah is preferred over zina.  But you know what?  If you find someone you'd feel comfortable doing mutah with, why not just push a little harder and look at doing nikah.  Even if the marriage doesn't work out, either way it'll be temporary.  At least one gives you a goal of making it last longer.

[Abu Hadi]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:59 AM, HopefulBeliever said:

I’m wondering how common it is for women to do mut’ah. I’m in my late 20s and have tried every avenue to try and find a suitable long term husband. I’m thinking about this as an option in order to avoid haram. 

Before I got permenantly married, I had some experiences in this area ( a few, not alot). These were with Ahl Al Kitab, and not muslima although I would have greatly preferred that. In the US, at least, or maybe just where I lived, I found that to be the most common scenario. The Christian women (I don't know about Jewish women, never had that experience, lol) is much more likely to engage in Mutah, although it is not part of her religion vs the Muslima, and it is part of her religion. Oh... the irony. 

I am talking about the US, and amoung non Arab Christian women. For you guys who live in places like Iraq and Lebanon, where there are significant populations of Arab Christians, be careful about approaching this subject. Her father will likely want to 'ask you a few questions' . 

So now I read the OP, I guess the OP is a lady. Not sure if this is relevant now, but I'll leave it up anyway because any thread entitled 'Mutah' has mostly guys reading it. I am actually not sure how common it is amoung Muslim women. I don't know if there is any good way to get data on this. Like was said before, the women who do this don't usually talk about it. If you have a particular guy in mind, investigate about his Iman and Taqwa, just as you would with permenant marriage. If you find this to be good, then marry him (as per the famous hadith). You will then be fulfilling the Sunnah of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and Imams of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). If more women though like you, instead of just thinking about what this person will think and that person will think, we would live in a better community and a better world. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Abu Hadi

[Mark Enlightment]

17 hours ago, ummulbaneen said:

This would come with its own set of consequences, so one must know and measure all possibilities of making such a decision. There are hadith which do not look favourably upon women (previously unmarried) who engage in mut'ah, and considers them a "stain" upon their families. 

I believe the hadiths say that the society views this as a "stain" upon their families, but there's the issue of extremely late marriages in our time (many stay till 30s single) while women used to get married at the start of their bulugh back then.

Can we be sure that these hadiths apply to most of such women today with the difficulty of waiting for decades for women, especially that many in the Western world (and slowly in MENA) do not view losing virginity immoral anymore? This is debatable.

Anyway to be on the safe side, a woman can enter a temporary marriage and clearly say that she doesn't want to have any sexual intercourses (basically just hugging/kissing and so on), which is advised in some hadiths too as a solution to this issue.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Mark Enlightment

[HopefulBeliever]

Thank you all for your level-headed and respectful responses... some things to think about. I highly doubt I'll follow through given the stigma attached and the potential consequences of following through. I will continue to search for a long-term husband for the time being but seriously the (halal) dating world is tough... and it feels impossible to find somebody.

13 hours ago, coldcow said:

If you want some honest feedback and thoughts, please feel free to PM me. 

I may take you up on your offer at some point - thank you! Likewise, happy to give feedback.

[ummulbaneen]

22 hours ago, HopefulBeliever said:

 

Isn't this a major double standard and doesn't it wrongly put virgin women on a pedestal?

Depends on how you look at it. 

Put very simply, a mutah marriage simply means a woman forfeits 90% of her rights under a marriage except conjugal rights. Lexicologists will tell you the term nikah in Arabic refers to the usage of specific parts of the anatomy, and as the consequences of such usage upon the woman and the possible burdens she may bear as a result of it, the man is then "burdened" with some responsibilities to make the relationship more balanced.

For example, a woman who conceives a child through a mutah marriage is not islamically entitled to demand a paternity test should the man deny paternity of the child. It is not expected that a man would deny his child, but in the event he does, that is something he will account for on the day of reckoning. So here is a woman, who entered a situation forfeiting her rights to maintenance, a home, normalcy in society, ends up having a secret child whose father denies them (and their later inheritance from him), and she is forced to bear this burden alone.

The "stain" basically means a previously unmarried woman (who may assumedly be in a better position to remain celibate than one who has experienced physical relations) should not so easily forfeit her rights, because of the consequences it can have on her future, and that of her family.

Islam is a practical and realistic religion. The fact that it allows something does not mean it encourages it, and the usage of such language is simply to serve as a "caveat emptor" or a notice to the person entering the situation of forfeiting their rights what they are getting into, incase, because of the heat of the moment, they have forgotten.

[Abu Hadi]

On 12/30/2021 at 1:28 PM, ummulbaneen said:

Depends on how you look at it. 

Put very simply, a mutah marriage simply means a woman forfeits 90% of her rights under a marriage except conjugal rights. Lexicologists will tell you the term nikah in Arabic refers to the usage of specific parts of the anatomy, and as the consequences of such usage upon the woman and the possible burdens she may bear as a result of it, the man is then "burdened" with some responsibilities to make the relationship more balanced.

For example, a woman who conceives a child through a mutah marriage is not islamically entitled to demand a paternity test should the man deny paternity of the child. It is not expected that a man would deny his child, but in the event he does, that is something he will account for on the day of reckoning. So here is a woman, who entered a situation forfeiting her rights to maintenance, a home, normalcy in society, ends up having a secret child whose father denies them (and their later inheritance from him), and she is forced to bear this burden alone.

The "stain" basically means a previously unmarried woman (who may assumedly be in a better position to remain celibate than one who has experienced physical relations) should not so easily forfeit her rights, because of the consequences it can have on her future, and that of her family.

Islam is a practical and realistic religion. The fact that it allows something does not mean it encourages it, and the usage of such language is simply to serve as a "caveat emptor" or a notice to the person entering the situation of forfeiting their rights what they are getting into, incase, because of the heat of the moment, they have forgotten.

The above is incorrect in many aspects. 

The rights she gives up are 

1) Financial support. The man is not required (by default) to support her financially during the marriage although she can make financial support part of the marriage contract. 

2) Inheritance. Neither spouse inherits each other in this type of contract

If the woman is looking only for financial support and inheritance, then probably this is not the right contract for her. All the other rights are intact. Any children born out of this marriage are legitimate, and the man is required to support them financially while they are minors. I think for most women, this is the most important right, so she doesn't have to worry what will happen if she gets pregnant. She has the status of a married woman, and all the social rights that go with that. One important additional right / privilege she has in this type of marriage is that there is no divorce. In a 'permanent marriage' (zawaj tul nikah), if a woman decides she doesn't want to be with her husband anymore, and the man doesn't agree, she has to do a 'khula' divorce in which she is required to forgo either all or part of her mahr (dowry). In mutah, this is not the case. She can keep all of her mahr, no matter when the marriage ends. Also, she doesn't have to go thru the process of divorce. 

Another 'right' she has in mutah which she doesn't have in the other type of marriage is that she is not required to have sex with her husband. If they agree in the contract that there is no sex and they can only do x and y or even not even x and y, then this is considered valid in a mutah contract, and not in the other type of contract. Also, her iddah(waiting period between spouses) is shorter in mutah, 2 monthly cycles, vs permanent marriage, 3 monthly cycles. 

So it is a different type of marriage contract which in some ways gives the women more rights, not less. It isn't for everyone, but it is good for two people who want to get to know each other better in a more 'free' type of situation. If there were more mutah relationships prior to permanent marriage, there would be fewer divorces, because one of the main problems in most muslim communities today is that spouses don't have enough time to get to know each other prior to permanent marriage. 

Also, if the stigma around short term marriages was broken there would be alot less zina (adultry) happening. As Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) said, 'If Umar wouldn't have banned Mutah, noone would have done zina(adultry) except for the very wicked'. There are certain situations in which a short term marriage would be of great benefit to both spouses. Because of the huge stigma around these relationships in the Muslim community, even the Shia community, brothers and sisters who are in these situations don't see this as an option, so they end up resorting to haram or ones with extreme patience and discipline end up getting thru but those are very few. The vast majority end up doing haram. 

Telling people not to do Mutah in situations where it is appropriate is advising them to do something against the teachings of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). Full Stop. 

The value of a woman, or a man, does not come from their virgin / non virgin status, their race, their color, who their parents are, their tribe, age, weight, height, , amount of $ in the bank, where they were born, etc. It comes from their Iman and Taqwa. This is the real value of a person. 

These hadith regarding the value of virginity must be calibrated according to the times we are living in. In the old days, a young woman living in a village, with no phone, no access to internet, no access (practically) to men who were not her relatives, and in a place where many people knew her and were watching her, this lady would have a hard time doing zina, even if she wanted to. It would require effort and planning. Nowdays, it requires a few clicks on her phone. Meet the guy, hook up, and back to studying in about 20 minutes. Noone would ever know, except her and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (and the guy of course). Then when it's time to do zawaj nikah, just lie about all of that. 

This is the modern reality we are living in. This is the reality, and this is the norm, well hopefully not the norm but this is very common. So to talk about these hadiths about 'virginity' as if we were living 1000 years ago is not helpful to anyone. If a young woman or man is in the situation where they are being pushed toward haram (which is practically all of them), it is wajib for them to get married, either mutah or zawaj tul nikah. If the second isn't possible for them, due to circumstances, they are required to do mutah. It is wajib at that point. I don't understand what is so difficult to comprehend about this. You can look it up in the Resalat of any modern marjaa'. How could something that is wajib (Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) requires this and there is punishment attached to not doing it) be a 'stain' ? Makes no sense at all. If this is the case, then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not just (auzubiLlah). And since Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Just, then this 'stain' argument is nonsense, given the current context. 

[Shi3atAli1]

I’m unsure if I’ve misunderstood, but it isn’t permissible for a virgin to engage in  mut’ah unless she has her father’s permission.

I also recommend Sayyed Muhammad Rizvi’s talk on mut’ah in this day and age. 

[Guest Guest]

5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Meet the guy, hook up, and back to studying in about 20 minutes. Then when it's time to do zawaj nikah, just lie about all of that. 

Would most people lie about this? How do you prevent yourself from being lied to?

[Abu Hadi]

That why we are allowed to investigate someone before marrying them. If you do some investigation, most likely you will find out. I don't know how common it is, but from what I know it happens, and it's not just like one or two in the whole community. 

[ummulbaneen]

11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Another 'right' she has in mutah which she doesn't have in the other type of marriage is that she is not required to have sex with her husband.

Sayyid Sistani: Ruling 2439. A temporary marriage that is not for the purpose of deriving sexual pleasure is valid. However, the woman cannot stipulate a condition that the man must not derive any sexual pleasure.

So the getting to know each other better without sexual pleasure issue goes out the window.

Ruling 2447. If in order to become maḥram a father or a paternal grandfather marries his non-bāligh daughter/granddaughter or son/grandson to someone for a short period of time, the marriage contract is valid as long as it is not detrimental. However, if during the period of the marriage the boy is totally unable to derive sexual pleasure, or, if no sexual pleasure can be derived from the girl, then the validity of the marriage contract is problematic [i.e. based on obligatory precaution, it is not valid].

11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Any children born out of this marriage are legitimate, and the man is required to support them financially while they are minors.

Yes, if the man does not deny the paternity. In the unfortunate event that he does, unlike a permanent marriage, the woman is not shar'an entitled to seek a paternity test nor can a man be forced/compulsed to take a test to confirm paternity. (Secular laws about this aside).

also:

Ruling 2442. A temporary wife is not entitled to living expenses [to be paid for by the husband] even if she becomes pregnant.

Ruling 2443. A temporary wife is not entitled to the right of sleeping together [i.e. the right that was mentioned in Ruling 2435]. She does not inherit from her husband, nor does her husband inherit from her. And in the event that one or both of them stipulate a condition [in the marriage contract] that they will inherit [from the other/each other], then the validity of this condition is problematic, but observing precaution (iḥtiyāṭ) here must not be abandoned.

Ruling 2444. Even if a woman in a temporary marriage does not know that she is not entitled to the right of having her living expenses paid for and the right of sleeping together, the marriage contract is valid. Her ignorance of this does not grant her a right over her husband.

11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Also, if the stigma around short term marriages was broken there would be a lot less zina (adultry) happening.

And if permanent marriages were simplified, and people had more realistic expectations of each other when seeking spouses for permanent marriage, there would be a lot less zinaa happening. If the stigma around supporting young couples to set up a life without having to have a huge dowry, huge wedding etc were broken, a lot less zinaa would be happening. We are in agreement about that. In the meantime, let us also focus on the existing reality (stigmas and all) and provide sufficient information (both pros and cons) so that those making these life altering decisions do not make them based on unrealistic expectations. 

I know plenty of people who have entered permanent marriages with parties who from the onset would not be able to provide some of their rights and they agreed to that, for their own reasons. For example, I know people who believe that it is better to try out marriage with an incompatible person, and have a chance of having a child than to remain waiting for an ideal person. My statement of some of the cons of mutah marriages will not deter those who still find it (all factors considered) a worthwhile situation. And that is perfectly OK. However, it is only fair that (especially females) do not enter mutah with a rosier expectation, and then leave the marriage deeply emotionally and otherwise scarred, thereby destroying or reducing their potential to have longer term/permanent marriage(s) in the future.

 

NOTE: Whether or not one chooses to engage in mutah is a personal choice, and likewise for permanent marriage. The right to choose disappears if the person will engage in haraam if they do not get married (all other options have not worked for them). That being said, it is very important for parties considering or entering into both temporary and permanent marriages to have a realistic picture of their shar'ee rights and duties under them, as opposed to having a skewed image, entering into them, then blaming religion or fatwas they read in exclusion to all others to make a decision. 

 

A similar example would be divorce. While it has several negative aspects (and which parties considering it should be well aware of when making such a decision), one can not then say, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has made this permissible, even without any reason, and yet the ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) have taught us all these negative impacts of divorce, so (naudhbillah), it is an UNJUST law. The fact that some things are permissible, and allowed, does not mean they are the ideal or should be engaged in with a trigger happy spirit. 

[ummulbaneen]

It is also reprehensible, without any exceptions, to contract a temporary marriage with a virgin, by reason of the words of the Imam Ja'far: 'It is reprehensible, because it is a stain upon her family.'29 If a contract should nevertheless be concluded, it is not permissible for the man to consummate the marriage, unless the marriage took place with the permission of her father-a condition almost impossible to imagine in Muslim society. 'A virgin may not be married temporarily without her father's permission' (the Imam al-Rida).30

source

 

[Lion of Shia]

On 12/30/2021 at 1:28 PM, ummulbaneen said:

Depends on how you look at it. 

Put very simply, a mutah marriage simply means a woman forfeits 90% of her rights under a marriage except conjugal rights. Lexicologists will tell you the term nikah in Arabic refers to the usage of specific parts of the anatomy, and as the consequences of such usage upon the woman and the possible burdens she may bear as a result of it, the man is then "burdened" with some responsibilities to make the relationship more balanced.

For example, a woman who conceives a child through a mutah marriage is not islamically entitled to demand a paternity test should the man deny paternity of the child. It is not expected that a man would deny his child, but in the event he does, that is something he will account for on the day of reckoning. So here is a woman, who entered a situation forfeiting her rights to maintenance, a home, normalcy in society, ends up having a secret child whose father denies them (and their later inheritance from him), and she is forced to bear this burden alone.

The "stain" basically means a previously unmarried woman (who may assumedly be in a better position to remain celibate than one who has experienced physical relations) should not so easily forfeit her rights, because of the consequences it can have on her future, and that of her family.

Islam is a practical and realistic religion. The fact that it allows something does not mean it encourages it, and the usage of such language is simply to serve as a "caveat emptor" or a notice to the person entering the situation of forfeiting their rights what they are getting into, incase, because of the heat of the moment, they have forgotten.

bro/sis wheredo you live?are you in the US? are you in school?(college)

[Abu Hadi]

On 12/31/2021 at 5:00 PM, ummulbaneen said:

Sayyid Sistani: Ruling 2439. A temporary marriage that is not for the purpose of deriving sexual pleasure is valid. However, the woman cannot stipulate a condition that the man must not derive any sexual pleasure.

So the getting to know each other better without sexual pleasure issue goes out the window.

 

I'm not sure if you read your own posts or not, or maybe English is not your first language but your point makes no sense, also your translation makes no sense. No offense, but I'm not responding to you anymore. Its obvious that you have some sort of emotional hatred of the concept of mutah, and you are doing everything to discourage this practice, even when your discouragements make no sense, IMHO. 

[SeekingHeaven]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:59 AM, HopefulBeliever said:

I’m wondering how common it is for women to do mut’ah. I’m in my late 20s and have tried every avenue to try and find a suitable long term husband. I’m thinking about this as an option in order to avoid haram. 

I am a male living in the US and I did Mut'ah about 2 months ago, a girl wanted to start talking and engaging in sexual acts with me, basically “dating”. So I told her I would only do any of that if we did it through Mut’ah and she accepted. She was an Arab and Muslim. So it did happen and we enjoyed each other for the short time. She didn’t care if we did Mut’ah or not though, I did.

[coldcow]

On 12/31/2021 at 11:41 AM, Guest Guest said:

Would most people lie about this? How do you prevent yourself from being lied to?

I don't know how many would lie about it.  I suspect some would, some wouldn't. I was talking to a muslim girl who was open about the number of sexual partners she'd had (all muslim boys).  I think it depends on who they're marrying and what they think their future spouse expects.

I've come to the conclusion that it is more common than most people in the muslim community care to admit.  As such, in my opinion, a woman's past is their past.  I will not judge them or hold it against them, so long as it stays their past and they leave that behind.  

[Zainuu]

On 12/29/2021 at 8:31 PM, coldcow said:

All that being said, I definitely think mutah is preferred over zina.  But you know what?  If you find someone you'd feel comfortable doing mutah with, why not just push a little harder and look at doing nikah.  Even if the marriage doesn't work out, either way it'll be temporary.  At least one gives you a goal of making it last longer.

@HopefulBeliever Salaamunalaikum,

The response I have highlighted above is exactly which should be a proper intention in doing mutah. If in Islam, anything is halal, it doesn't mean we have to always do it. Before doing mutah a planning and intention must be there. It is a timely marriage so you need to be absolutely clear about the purpose. And that purpose should be kept clear in front of the person you are marrying. 

I have no experiences with this and I am a male. So, obviously I can't provide you any experience you are looking for. But relationships are best if they are kept simple. Right? I know you'd agree with this. So, plan to marry (permanently) and then do mutah with whosoever you find the right person for nikah. You can choose a duration of atmost 6 months or even greater if you want. Talk to him, know him and try to understand him. If you find the person correct, marry him, if not then leave the relation. Although, I saw over here that someone said that you cannot impose the condition on sexual relations. But on the flip side, the man cannot even force you into a physical engagement (according to Islam). So, keeping things transparent with everyone, do mutah to know a person with whom you want to do nikah. 

In this way:

1. You reduce the risk of a bad relationship ending into divorce.

2. You will definitely have an extremely strong and happy married life if your interests collide.

3. The more you will no him, the more you will be confident about your decisions at the end.

4. He will himself cooperate as even men don't want to complicate their social life.

5. You will be able to interact without any hesitation as you don't have a fear of getting into haraam as he is not a na-mahram.

This is when the niyat is clear and uncomplicated. But simply for avoiding to get into haraam, I won't recommend doing mutah. This can be a secondary reason but not the only reason. There are a lot of ifs and buts that must be cleared out before going for mutah with this intentions.

These were my advices.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you and protect your faith.

[Shi3atAli1]

On 1/2/2022 at 4:46 AM, coldcow said:

I don't know how many would lie about it.  I suspect some would, some wouldn't. I was talking to a muslim girl who was open about the number of sexual partners she'd had (all muslim boys).  I think it depends on who they're marrying and what they think their future spouse expects.

I've come to the conclusion that it is more common than most people in the muslim community care to admit.  As such, in my opinion, a woman's past is their past.  I will not judge them or hold it against them, so long as it stays their past and they leave that behind.  

It is becoming more common. I have heard stories that are truly shocking, and this wasn't common in my generation (I'm a millennial). A lot of Muslim men say they wouldn't care if their spouse wasn't a virgin, but is this really the case? Or are they saying this so the girl will 'admit' to it? The stories (which are reputable) that I've heard involve other acts that are haram in addition to deception. I also attribute it, in part, to the role models girls have. Almost every 'influencer' has proudly taken her hijab off. Instagram is filled with Muslims showing off their handbags, clothes, makeup, and figure. You can see the transition from full hijab, to turban, to turban with a fringe out, to eventually removing it completely. It's alarming. It's no longer 'cool' to be modest; this needs to change. 

[coldcow]

2 hours ago, Shi3atAli1 said:

It is becoming more common. I have heard stories that are truly shocking, and this wasn't common in my generation (I'm a millennial). A lot of Muslim men say they wouldn't care if their spouse wasn't a virgin, but is this really the case? Or are they saying this so the girl will 'admit' to it? The stories (which are reputable) that I've heard involve other acts that are haram in addition to deception. I also attribute it, in part, to the role models girls have. Almost every 'influencer' has proudly taken her hijab off. Instagram is filled with Muslims showing off their handbags, clothes, makeup, and figure. You can see the transition from full hijab, to turban, to turban with a fringe out, to eventually removing it completely. It's alarming. It's no longer 'cool' to be modest; this needs to change. 

Well, it would appear most muslim boys/men these days aren't virgins either.  So perhaps they don't care so that they can play around as well without feeling as guilty.  Virginity shouldn't be an issue in Islam, to be honest, right?  A woman could have been widowed 2-3 times and it shouldn't matter.  As someone that has refrained from haraam relationships and actions in large part because I expected my future spouse to have done the same, it does disturb me a little.  But I've come to peace with the fact that people aren't perfect, and I may marry someone with a past.  Who they are now, and who they intend to be in the future, is probably more important.

I'm also a millenial, and I definitely think things are worse now than 20 years ago.  However, I think we were also probably less aware of what was going on back then.  I knew muslim girls and boys in high school that had girlfriends/boyfriends - sometimes with other muslims, sometimes not.  I had assumed it was limited to holding hands, hugging, and maybe a little kissing, but in retrospect I suspect more was going on than I was aware of.

I think everyone is focusing on themselves in the here and now.  And they're pushing those ideas onto others.  You often see people posting things along the lines of "life is short," "just have fun," "who cares what others think," "there's nothing wrong with casual sex," "if it feels good, just do it."  So on, and so forth.  When you're surrounded by non-religious people who believe this, it makes it much harder for the religious to stay religious.  I have a catholic friend whose brother lives in a very liberal city (lots of hippies, agnostics, athiests, etc)., and he used to be very religious, but now doesn't care.

I think many also believe that God can't possibly hate you for seeking affection when you need it.  I know I confided to an anonymous female friend I talk to online sometimes about how I'm lonely, and she said something along those lines.  I mean, affection, touch, intimacy, are all human needs.  The longer you go without them, the harder it is to avoid haram ways of getting them.  Not everyone has the same level of willpower. 

On top of that, society has embraced the idea that kids are going to have sex at a young age.  And rather than discourage it, they're teaching them to just have safe sex - which is good in a way.  To be honest, I think we (as a Muslim community) probably need some sort of hybrid view on the matter.  We need to encourage lawful interactions with the opposite sex, early marriage, etc.,  But we also need to acknowledge the fact that everything around our kids these days encourages haram behavior.   

Basically, we need to teach our kids what is right and what is wrong, and at the same time realize that we can't control them and that society will tell them that what we think is wrong is totally normal.  As much as it pains me to think about it, I think I'd rather be aware that my child is dating (possibly doing other things) than them hiding it and engaging in it in dangerous ways.  

Sorry for getting off topic and rambling.

[Anonymous-Male]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:27 PM, Abu Hadi said:

If they agree in the contract that there is no sex and they can only do x and y or even not even x and y, then this is considered valid in a mutah contract, and not in the other type of contract.

Even in permanent marriage, if the husband-wife agree that they will never demand any sexual right, it can be a valid contract. 

For example, the husband is obligated to provide sexual intimacy to his wife at least once every 4 months, unless she has no objection. 

Even if a man and a woman get married but never even consummate their marriage and stay virgins, they are still Islamically married. The only difference will be that in case of divorce or death of husband, the wife will not have to observe iddah because she would still be a virgin although she may be married for years. 

[Guest guest]

On 1/7/2022 at 1:06 PM, Anonymous-Male said:

Even in permanent marriage, if the husband-wife agree that they will never demand any sexual right, it can be a valid contract. 

Isn't consummation required in permanent marriage? Which marja are you quoting from? 

[Anonymous-Male]

Consummation is not required in permanent marriage. A man and a woman can be married without ever consummating their marriage, if they have stipulated this as a condition of their marriage. 

----------

Ruling 2436. A husband cannot refrain from having sexual intercourse with a young wife of his for more than four months unless sexual intercourse is harmful or excessively difficult (mashaqqah) for him, or the wife consents to it, or he had stipulated a condition in the marriage contract regarding this.

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2333/

--------

So, if a man says that he will only get married to a woman if she agrees that he will never have sexual intercourse, and the woman agrees, then they can get married and never consummate their marriage and it will be a valid marriage.

Similarly, if a woman agrees to marry a man only on the condition that he will never demand sexual intercourse with her, and the man agrees, it will be a valid marriage. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Anonymous-Male