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In the Name of God بسم الله

Shaykh Yusufi Gharawi interview regarding some common Duas

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hamz786

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

As Salamu Alaykum bros and sis,

I've found this article which translates a Persian article of an interview with Shaykh Yusufi Gharawi regarding one his works around Imami Duas. For the first time I have heard that Dua Tawassul is inauthentic, amongst a few possible others like Jawshan e Kabeer. I also found this interesting discussion from Al Mahdi Institute of the same issue, and that same article has a link to another discussion on Thaqalayn. Now I've never personally put importance on Dua Tawassul myself, but seeing as it is very common amongst us, what do you guys think about this?

Any respectful discussion would be appreciated InshaAllah.

 

 

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wa alaikumussalam

It's NOT authentic from the point of view of sanad. It has a broken chain, nothing connects it from Sheikh Saduq (رضي الله عنه) to any of the Imams. But the content, according to most scholars, based on "qaedah at tassamuh fi adilat assunnan" it's permissible to recite it and some say even recommended. 

The other objection I've heard is this part:

إِنِّي تَوَجَّهْتُ بِكُمْ

https://www.duas.org/tawassul.htm

I can't say too much about this, but most scholars I've talk to don't find this objectionable. Some do, and you can watch the objections by the group at Al-Mahdi institute. You can email the offices of the various maraje to clarify this with them. But as a side note, this type of wording is also found in sunni hadith (Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Naisaburi) (sahih, and according to Hakeem Al naisaburi sahih with the conditions of the sheikhain )

https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:3578

إِنِّي تَوَجَّهْتُ بِكَ إِلَى رَبِّي فِي حَاجَتِ

So it's not something ground breaking or shocking. Tawassul is found on both sides of the divide. The dua itself cannot be established as sahih from the point of view of the chain of narrators. But it doesn't mean that is' bad or a sin to recite.

 

Here's what Samahat Sayyid Kamal Al-Haydari has to say about the sand-centric approach but not paying enough attention to content.

 

Edited by 145_turbo_16V
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Jazakhallah for giving me the other perspective friend, and I do see what you are saying. Obviously I'm just a lay person, not an expert or even knowledgeable about any of the hadith sciences, rijal studies etc. etc. (although I wish I was). But if its sanad is incomplete and doesn't reach an Imam (عليه السلام), then shouldn't we at least make it aware upon the lay people who put some form of importance on this Dua and others, especially when the general belief is that it has come from an Imam (عليه السلام)?

I understand the POV regarding leniency, but to be totally honest, I'm not too confident in Tawassul itself, so personally I would just avoid the Dua entirely. Nonetheless, I feel that the exact history and authenticity of our supplications should at least be common knowledge, so as not to give a reason to the opponents to accuse us of ignorance. Would you agree?

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Yes, I understand. But according to the Quran, even if news comes a evildoer, it doesn’t mean you just throw it away, you can use it but you need to verify it, use it  and cause mischief with it.

So why is it by Qur’anic standards, did Allah say it’s ok to use the info brought by an evildoer after the info is verified but we want to toss something good brought by Sheikh Saduq (رضي الله عنه). The problem is when ignorant people claim it’s 200% Sahih and is a part of our aqeedah.

Quran 49:6: O believers, if an evildoer brings you any news, verify ˹it˺ so you do not harm people unknowingly, becoming regretful for what you have done.

I mean I don’t have an opinion on this, I’m just a lay person, I rely on our scholars too. But from what many scholars have said it’s ok and thus type of day is found in Sunni Sahih Hadith. So this is not a Sunni Shia issue at all as far as the wording or concept of tawassul goes.

Of course on matters of halal and haram our scholars are more strict.

Edited by 145_turbo_16V
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Thanks again for another perspective friend. 

Quote

 The problem is when ignorant people claim it’s 200% Sahih and is a part of our aqeedah.

I agree wholeheartedly. Surely the speakers on our pulpits should at least make the general populace aware of the authenticity of such Duas, especially when they're attributed to our Imams(عليه السلام). Surely that is better than letting us recite these Duas with conviction that it has come from an Imam (عليه السلام), and then have our opponents be the ones to tell us the exact facts.

Regarding Tawassul. it is more of a personal thing for me. I understand the exact reasoning for it etc., and wouldn't condemn someone who does it. Its just from my own experience (Indo Pak community) I see and hear more people saying the slogans of Tawwasul than Tawakkul, and just feel like us normal folk have come to rely too much on this than our own Tawakkul. Again, that's just my opinion amongst a million others.

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Salam, thanks for the video. Exactly how I was feeling when I found this info out. Again, I understand the position of the content etc., but still feel this kind of information about how these Duas are authenticated should at least be told to us and taught to us. I've already seen a few anti-Shia sites use this against us, and imagine it must have a damaging effect on some Shias when they also learn about this, or maybe not. 

Also thank you brother/sister(?) 145_turbo_16V video. Just wanted to ask, would you by any chance know the name of the research that the scholars did on Dua al Nudba, mentioned by Shaykh Haydari?

I have another question regarding this and wonder if someone can point me straight. If by looking at the sanad of these Duas they become not 100% reliable, then how are the recommendations to read them on certain days and times etc., reliable? 

Jazakhallah Khair

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