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In the Name of God بسم الله

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:bismillah:

:salam:

I have seen on other forums online Shi'as discussing the situation in Yemen and Afghanistan, and how the Yamani and Khorasani may soon rise given the current situations. Alternatively, some of them also contend that instead of Afghanistan, the region is Eastern Iran, as today that is known as Khorasan primarily. That also made me think, if we choose to ignore modern names, then couldn't it be argued that instead of modern day Syria, the Sufyani could emerge from old ash-Shaam? Meaning Greater Syria/Syria-Palestine/Levant? With that logic, one could easily argue that the likely origin is Israel for the Sufyani, or at least somewhere nearby. What are your thoughts on all of this?

JazakAllah

:ws:

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wa alaikum salam.

When the hadiths about Islamic eschatology are studied, one needs to think of the geographic locations of that time. How the lands were named back then, and where the nations lived. For instance, Said Nursi, a sunni scholar of the late century, when analyzing sunni hadiths about Islamic Eschatology, says that "Dajjal will emerge from Khorasan" means that Dajjal will emerge among Turks, because Turks back then lived there. About 4 centuries later, they moved to Anatolia Region, so the hadiths about Dajjal (Sufyani) emerging from Khorasan now means the Sufyani emerging in Turkey. And then he studies all the other sunni hadiths about Sufyani and points out that Turkish govt. is the Sufyani. (You can study the Fifth Ray by Said Nursi to find out old mainstream sunni view on end times) http://www.erisale.com/?locale=en&bookId=204&pageNo=97#content.en.204.97

And I believe he was right, because shia sources also point out that Sufyani will emerge among Turks. And in Sham (Sham did not just mean Syria back then, Anatolia was also called Sham.). And there are numerous shi'ite hadiths on; RED FLAGS LEADING THE ARMY OF SUFYANI (see Bihar al Anwar, 52/273), THE TRIBE OF KALB/DOGS (GREY WOLVES) (being the most important battalion of that army, same source, same page), SUFYANIS FATHER'S NAME BEING UTHMAN (i.e. OTTOMANS, see Bihar al Anwar, 52/205), EMERGING IN THE TIME/MONTH OF RAJAB (i.e. RAJAB TAYYIB ERDOGAN, see Al Ghaibah, Numani, page 426), will unite with non-muslims and invade 7 countries (Iraq, Syria, North Africa, etc, which is what NATO member Turkey is doing now).

I am guessing, Turkey will invade Iraq, Syria and Lebanon more directly in the coming years and go further to invade Makkah and Madina but they will fail, because Imam Mahdi's army (Resistance Axis) will stop them.

Edited by islamicmusic
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On 12/2/2021 at 6:26 PM, Muntazir e Mahdi said:

I have seen on other forums online Shi'as discussing the situation in Yemen and Afghanistan, and how the Yamani

It is important to make the distinction between اليمني (someone from Yemen) and اليماني (someone who is on the Right path). Very common misunderstanding.

 

2 hours ago, islamicmusic said:

When the hadiths about Islamic eschatology are studied, one needs to think of the geographic locations of that time. How the lands were named back then, and where the nations lived. For instance, Said Nursi, a sunni scholar of the late century, when analyzing sunni hadiths about Islamic Eschatology, says that "Dajjal will emerge from Khorasan" means that Dajjal will emerge among Turks, because Turks back then lived there. About 4 centuries later, they moved to Anatolia Region, so the hadiths about Dajjal (Sufyani) emerging from Khorasan now means the Sufyani emerging in Turkey. And then he studies all the other sunni hadiths about Sufyani and points out that Turkish govt. is the Sufyani. (You can study the Fifth Ray by Said Nursi to find out old mainstream sunni view on end times) http://www.erisale.com/?locale=en&bookId=204&pageNo=97#content.en.204.97

And I believe he was right, because shia sources also point out that Sufyani will emerge among Turks. And in Sham (Sham did not just mean Syria back then, Anatolia was also called Sham.). And there are numerous shi'ite hadiths on; RED FLAGS LEADING THE ARMY OF SUFYANI (see Bihar al Anwar, 52/273), THE TRIBE OF KALB/DOGS (GREY WOLVES) (being the most important battalion of that army, same source, same page), SUFYANIS FATHER'S NAME BEING UTHMAN (i.e. OTTOMANS, see Bihar al Anwar, 52/205), EMERGING IN THE TIME/MONTH OF RAJAB (i.e. RAJAB TAYYIB ERDOGAN, see Al Ghaibah, Numani, page 426), will unite with non-muslims and invade 7 countries (Iraq, Syria, North Africa, etc, which is what NATO member Turkey is doing now).

There is a difference between the Sufyani and the Dajjal. Furthermore the Sufyani will be an Arab seeing as he will be from the descendance of the liver-eater (Umayyads). As for Rajab the hadith it is clear about it being on the month of Rajab and nothing to do with names. Many hadiths also clearly state that his rising will start from Sham, Damascus specifically, so not Turkey.

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10 hours ago, Berber-Shia said:

It is important to make the distinction between اليمني (someone from Yemen) and اليماني (someone who is on the Right path). Very common misunderstanding.

Though there is a difference in ethimology, there doesn't have to be a difference at all in the meaning. i.e. the one who is on the Right Path could also be from Yemen. especially when you ponder upon the Hadith of the Prophet about FAITH AND WISDOM BEING FROM YEMEN.

Also the HADITH OF NAJD, where the Holy Prophet prays for Yemenis and Syrians three times and does not pray for NAJD (Saudis) even though companions ask him thrice to pray for them means something. He says "From NAJD rises the HORNS OF SATAN" which scholars say that it means a satanic generation. And currently we see what that satanic generation SAUDI-WAHHABIS and their paid mercenaries, are doing in Syria and Yemen. Surely, the Prophet praying for Yemenis and Syrians against Najdi Wahhabis mean something.

10 hours ago, Berber-Shia said:

There is a difference between the Sufyani and the Dajjal. Furthermore the Sufyani will be an Arab seeing as he will be from the descendance of the liver-eater (Umayyads). As for Rajab the hadith it is clear about it being on the month of Rajab and nothing to do with names. Many hadiths also clearly state that his rising will start from Sham, Damascus specifically, so not Turkey.

When you analyze the hadiths, you need to think of the demographics back then, the geographic locations names back then and the language the infallibles used to make people of that time understand. All this need to be considered. Otherwise, we would end up believing "swords" in the hadiths means "sword" today and not missiles, the horse means horse and not tanks.

Sham meant the whole area from Damascus to Costantinople back then. There was no Turkey, so the whole area was known by Arabs as Sham. Secondly, all the LITERAL hadiths refer to Turks. Such as The Red Flags, the name Uthman, and others. And all the other methaporical hadiths (There is a hole in Sufyani's hand... etc. which means they are lavish) also mean Turkey, with all the one thousand room palaces being built in Ankara, Istanbul, Van etc. when the nation is suffering from hunger.

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23 hours ago, islamicmusic said:

wa alaikum salam.

When the hadiths about Islamic eschatology are studied, one needs to think of the geographic locations of that time. How the lands were named back then, and where the nations lived. For instance, Said Nursi, a sunni scholar of the late century, when analyzing sunni hadiths about Islamic Eschatology, says that "Dajjal will emerge from Khorasan" means that Dajjal will emerge among Turks, because Turks back then lived there. About 4 centuries later, they moved to Anatolia Region, so the hadiths about Dajjal (Sufyani) emerging from Khorasan now means the Sufyani emerging in Turkey. And then he studies all the other sunni hadiths about Sufyani and points out that Turkish govt. is the Sufyani. (You can study the Fifth Ray by Said Nursi to find out old mainstream sunni view on end times) http://www.erisale.com/?locale=en&bookId=204&pageNo=97#content.en.204.97

And I believe he was right, because shia sources also point out that Sufyani will emerge among Turks. And in Sham (Sham did not just mean Syria back then, Anatolia was also called Sham.). And there are numerous shi'ite hadiths on; RED FLAGS LEADING THE ARMY OF SUFYANI (see Bihar al Anwar, 52/273), THE TRIBE OF KALB/DOGS (GREY WOLVES) (being the most important battalion of that army, same source, same page), SUFYANIS FATHER'S NAME BEING UTHMAN (i.e. OTTOMANS, see Bihar al Anwar, 52/205), EMERGING IN THE TIME/MONTH OF RAJAB (i.e. RAJAB TAYYIB ERDOGAN, see Al Ghaibah, Numani, page 426), will unite with non-muslims and invade 7 countries (Iraq, Syria, North Africa, etc, which is what NATO member Turkey is doing now).

I am guessing, Turkey will invade Iraq, Syria and Lebanon more directly in the coming years and go further to invade Makkah and Madina but they will fail, because Imam Mahdi's army (Resistance Axis) will stop them.

Profoud! I did not think of Shaam including Anatolia, the Ottomans, the red flags, NATO actions. Wow.

 

21 hours ago, Berber-Shia said:

It is important to make the distinction between اليمني (someone from Yemen) and اليماني (someone who is on the Right path). Very common misunderstanding.

 

There is a difference between the Sufyani and the Dajjal. Furthermore the Sufyani will be an Arab seeing as he will be from the descendance of the liver-eater (Umayyads). As for Rajab the hadith it is clear about it being on the month of Rajab and nothing to do with names. Many hadiths also clearly state that his rising will start from Sham, Damascus specifically, so not Turkey.

That distinction is a fair point...
And yes, the Sufyani and the Dajjal are distinct figures. As for the Sufyani being an Arab, couldn't one argue that is not necessary in modern times? He could be considered of Sufyani descent even if once someone from the descendants of Abu Sufyan went to these other regions and passed on the Sufyani line. After all, it is well known that the Infallible Imams (عليه السلام) were not all pure Arabs by the time of Imam al-Baqiyatullah (عليه السلام), due to the mothers s.a of those Imams (عليه السلام) being from regions  such as North Africa, etc, though it is very possible Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) changed nature's way for the Imams (عليه السلام) as a miracle, which would explain why Ahadith state Imam al-Baqiyatullah (عليه السلام) will have an Arab complexion.

As for the rising from Shaam, that is a very fair point. But could the Hadith mean that first he takes control of Damascus, through a less 'visible' operation. after which he would openly make claims that would place him as the Sufyani?

10 hours ago, islamicmusic said:

  

Though there is a difference in ethimology, there doesn't have to be a difference at all in the meaning. i.e. the one who is on the Right Path could also be from Yemen. especially when you ponder upon the Hadith of the Prophet about FAITH AND WISDOM BEING FROM YEMEN.

Also the HADITH OF NAJD, where the Holy Prophet prays for Yemenis and Syrians three times and does not pray for NAJD (Saudis) even though companions ask him thrice to pray for them means something. He says "From NAJD rises the HORNS OF SATAN" which scholars say that it means a satanic generation. And currently we see what that satanic generation SAUDI-WAHHABIS and their paid mercenaries, are doing in Syria and Yemen. Surely, the Prophet praying for Yemenis and Syrians against Najdi Wahhabis mean something.

When you analyze the hadiths, you need to think of the demographics back then, the geographic locations names back then and the language the infallibles used to make people of that time understand. All this need to be considered. Otherwise, we would end up believing "swords" in the hadiths means "sword" today and not missiles, the horse means horse and not tanks.

Sham meant the whole area from Damascus to Costantinople back then. There was no Turkey, so the whole area was known by Arabs as Sham. Secondly, all the LITERAL hadiths refer to Turks. Such as The Red Flags, the name Uthman, and others. And all the other methaporical hadiths (There is a hole in Sufyani's hand... etc. which means they are lavish) also mean Turkey, with all the one thousand room palaces being built in Ankara, Istanbul, Van etc. when the nation is suffering from hunger.

That Hadith is also very compelling. A lot of sources online also suggest that the man will rise from Yemen, and this Hadith does seem to support that idea.

 

JazakAllah for your insight! Please, discuss this more, it is a very interesting and even important topic. Other forum members should come in too! :)

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Salam

On 12/3/2021 at 8:31 PM, islamicmusic said:

because shia sources also point out that Sufyani will emerge among Turks. And in Sham (Sham did not just mean Syria back then, Anatolia was also called Sham.). And there are numerous shi'ite hadiths on; RED FLAGS LEADING THE ARMY OF SUFYANI (see Bihar al Anwar, 52/273), THE TRIBE OF KALB/DOGS (GREY WOLVES) (being the most important battalion of that army, same source, same page), SUFYANIS FATHER'S NAME BEING UTHMAN (i.e. OTTOMANS, see Bihar al Anwar, 52/205), EMERGING IN THE TIME/MONTH OF RAJAB (i.e. RAJAB TAYYIB ERDOGAN, see Al Ghaibah, Numani, page 426), will unite with non-muslims and invade 7 countries (Iraq, Syria, North Africa, etc, which is what NATO member Turkey is doing now).

Turks has just not meant Turks of Turkey which it also means Russians according  to Allamah Korani the famous researcher  in field  of Mahdaviat (researching about Imam Mahdi(aj)) also it refers to Mughals  according to prophecy Amir al Muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) about invading  of Basra by Mughals .

(11) The uprising of al-Yamani (12) The rise of al-Maghrabi in Egypt and his becoming the ruler of Syria, (13) The Turks arriving at an island (al-jazirah) (14) the coming of Romans to al-Ramla

Quote

 

“Remain firm in your place. Do not move until you see for yourself the signs I will mention. I do not think that you will perceive these signs. They are as such: Discord amongst the Bani ‘Abbas, a caller who will call out from the heavens, the sinking of a village in Syria (Shām) called al-Jābiyah, the Turks arriving at an island (al-jazirah), the Romans arriving in Ramla, great discord in every land until Shām will be ruined. The reason for its destruction will be the gathering together of three flags in it: the red and white flag, the black and white flag and the flag of Sufyani.

https://www.al-islam.org/al-mahdi-sayyid-sadruddin-sadr/chapter-7

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Hujjat al-Islam and Muslims Ali Kurani, in his book "Asre Zohoor" has said about this:
"In our view, the Turks in the narratives of the Blessed Advent movement are the Russians and those around them from the nations of Eastern Europe. Like the Germans and others, they are called Caesars, but first, they are from the various tribes of the East Asia-Europe region, which in the language of tradition and history, are called "Turkic tribes and nations", and this name in addition to the Turks of Turkey and Iran includes the Tatar and Mongol tribes, as well as Bulgaria, Russia and others.
Second, Christianity has recently spread to them, and originality has not been common among them, but has become a superficial stratum, and worse, exists among the nations of Western Europe, because their polytheistic materialism has prevailed, and perhaps that is why. The reason is that they surrendered to the theory of materialist and atheistic communism and did not resist its influence.

 

Quote

However, some of those narrations state their movements that are related to the events of the advent of Hazrat Mahdi (عليه السلام), as well as their cooperation with the Romans against us and their differences with each other at the same time, and this story does not apply except to the Russians, or If the case goes on for a long time, it applies to the heirs of their government from tribes of Turkish descent in Russia and Eastern Europe. Here are some examples of narrations in which their role is stated: including the narrations of the recent sedition and unrest that befell them and the Romans against the Muslims, which passed before, which except the invasion of the West and the Russians into the lands of the Muslims At the beginning of this century, it can not be interpreted, as it continued, until God removes it with the groundbreaking movement of Hazrat Mahdi ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) in the ummah, and then with the advent of his blessing ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)).
And the narrations related to Sufyan's war with the Turks are also among these narrations, and the Turks are probably referring to the Russians themselves, because Sufyan was an ally of Rome and the Jews, and it is reported that his movement in Syria and Jordan sought Turkish domination. Syria is emerging. And if the narration related to it is correct, the period of that domination will be short, because that domination will occur after the defeat of the revolt (علج أصهب). "When Alaj As hab rises up, and the capital of the government suffers from hardship and crisis, he will be killed after a while, then (Ak hal) will rise to avenge his  bloodshed, and this is where the country is returned to polytheism." 1]. In the narrations related to the emergence, As ab and Ab qa, two leaders opposed to the Sufyan movement are mentioned, over which Sufyan has won, and he dominates the region.
And I did not find any narrations that indicate that Sufyani was at war with the Turks, in Damascus or its suburbs, but many narrations have been summarized [2], which indicate that Sufyani had a great conflict with them in Qirqisia, on the border with Syria. - Iraq - Turkey, this battle is one of the great wars that have been promised, and its motive is the conflict over the treasure that is discovered in or near the Euphrates River.

 

Quote

For example, the narrations related to the Azerbaijani revolution are in confrontation with the Turks. It was narrated from Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) who said: "Although it is on the snow with four hands and feet" [3].
It is possible to use the words of Imam (عليه السلام) who said: "Azerbaijan is inevitable and nothing can stand against it" so that it is a leading movement that has emerged in Azerbaijan or its people, which is necessary after that. , Waited and waited for the onset of signs to begin, and as can be seen from the following narration, this story may be in confrontation with the Russians; "There are two exits for the Turks, one of which destroys Azerbaijan and the other exits to the island, which frightens the bridegrooms. It is at this time that Allah Almighty has helped the Muslims, and there is a great sacrifice of Allah among them. "[4].
When we examine this narration alone, it is probably one of the narrations related to the invasion of the Islamic lands by the Turks and the Mongols, who destroy it in the first stage when it reaches Azerbaijan, and then reach the Euphrates and the Muslims conquer them. . In the fountain of Goliath and other, there is a great sacrifice among them.
But if we combine this narration with the previous narration. It is possible that the Turks meant the Russians. And their first departure will be before the Second World War and after that, and before the signs of the imminent emergence and occupation of Azerbaijan by them.

 

 

https://fa.imamatpedia.com/wiki/منظور_از_ترک‌ها_در_روایات_آخرالزمان_چیست؟_(پرسش)

 

 

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Iran-Turkey war in the end times?

 

It is important to note that although the presence of the Salafi takfiri community on the borders of the Shiite community is considered a danger and a threat to national security, but with the emphasis of the Infallible Imam on direct military intervention with the parties involved in the war in Azerbaijan. The seditions of the "Turkish Brotherhood" should not have a direct military confrontation to finally destroy themselves in the east of Syria (Qirqisia) in the face of Shiite enemies, and in fact the Turkish Brotherhood, the Shiite shield against the main enemy, Sufyani. that he will be supported by the West.

https://www.rajanews.com/news/341260/سناریوی-آخرالزمانی-«آتش-آذربایجان»-قبل-ظهور-آغاز-جنگ-جهانی-یا-تدارک-حمله-از-سوی-دشمن-به

https://www.porseman.com/article/قیام-ترک-ها-در-عصر-ظهور/157759

https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/543398/چگونگی-خروج-قوم-ترک-در-آخرالزمان

http://www.jc313.ir/33637-نقش-ترکیه-در-دوران-ظهور-و-نشانه-های-آن.html

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam

Turks has just not meant Turks of Turkey which it also means Russians according  to Allamah Korani the famous researcher  in field  of Mahdaviat (researching about Imam Mahdi(aj)) also it refers to Mughals  according to prophecy Amir al Muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) about invading  of Basra by Mughals .

(11) The uprising of al-Yamani (12) The rise of al-Maghrabi in Egypt and his becoming the ruler of Syria, (13) The Turks arriving at an island (al-jazirah) (14) the coming of Romans to al-Ramla

https://www.al-islam.org/al-mahdi-sayyid-sadruddin-sadr/chapter-7

 

 

 

 

https://fa.imamatpedia.com/wiki/منظور_از_ترک‌ها_در_روایات_آخرالزمان_چیست؟_(پرسش)

 

 

Hmm. I was thinking about this. The Euphrates uncovering a mountain of gold. Is it possible that this is a metaphorical? Perhaps that mountain of gold can represent something... It seems unlikely, and I am not learned enough to support the idea myself, but I thought I would mention it.

2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

JazakAllah, all that is a lot of information. I am too lowly in thinking regarding these matters, so would it be possible for you to perhaps add some commentary for better understanding? I would appreciate it a lot and so would other forum members I am sure. JazakAllah. A very intriguing discussion this is becoming MashaAllah.

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These hadiths are just superstitions. Nowhere in the Quran are these things mentioned. 90% of the hadiths are just innovations and pure conjecture. Would be better if muslims just reference to the Quran

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10 hours ago, Dubilex said:

These hadiths are just superstitions. Nowhere in the Quran are these things mentioned. 90% of the hadiths are just innovations and pure conjecture. Would be better if muslims just reference to the Quran

Very dangerous to label hadiths from the Imams (عليه السلام) as innovations without any evidence to back your claim. The Sufyani, Yamaani and other signs are certain signs that are mutawatir in the hadith corpus that serve a good purpose for people to prepare for their awaited Imam (aj).
 

However a valid point could be raised about other hadiths that could indeed be of false origins. That's why this topic needs studying and not just a plain dismissal.

10 hours ago, Dubilex said:

Would be better if muslims just reference to the Quran

Thaqalayn bro, the hadiths and sunna of the Prophet (sawas) and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) are also important bro.

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4 hours ago, Berber-Shia said:

Very dangerous to label hadiths from the Imams (عليه السلام) as innovations without any evidence to back your claim. The Sufyani, Yamaani and other signs are certain signs that are mutawatir in the hadith corpus that serve a good purpose for people to prepare for their awaited Imam (aj).
 

However a valid point could be raised about other hadiths that could indeed be of false origins. That's why this topic needs studying and not just a plain dismissal.

Thaqalayn bro, the hadiths and sunna of the Prophet (sawas) and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) are also important bro.

Well, true. The shia hadiths are somewhat more sensible than the sunni hadiths. The problem is how muslims sometimes puts the hadiths above the Quran.

BTW, Just a bit off-topic but, berber shia? Are you North African by any chance? I thought shiite islam was non-existent in North Africa

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On 12/6/2021 at 2:57 PM, Dubilex said:

BTW, Just a bit off-topic but, berber shia? Are you North African by any chance? I thought shiite islam was non-existent in North Africa

Yes I am. Shiite islam may have not been so present as in other parts of the islamic world, but the love for the Ahlulbayt has been there forever. Twelver Shiism may be and may have been non existant there, but Wilaya of Ali (عليه السلام) was always present there. 

 

 

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On 12/5/2021 at 8:25 AM, Muntazir e Mahdi said:

. I am too lowly in thinking regarding these matters

Don't underestimate yourself brother...exert, strive and engage

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On 12/4/2021 at 12:58 AM, islamicmusic said:

When you analyze the hadiths, you need to think of the demographics back then, the geographic locations names back then and the language the infallibles used to make people of that time understand

 

On 12/4/2021 at 12:58 AM, islamicmusic said:

Otherwise, we would end up believing "swords" in the hadiths means "sword" today and not missiles, the horse means horse and not tanks.

It can be a tricky endeavor attempting to maneuver our way through End Times ahadith—it could mean al-Sham or Khorasan etc. in 7th century sense or it could be talking about the modern nation-state of Syria (Syrian Arab Republic)—sometimes information is related in the form of prophecies that are indecipherable to the present-day generation (e.g. 7th century Arabs) but fast forward 3, 4, 5, 10 etc. centuries and the narration makes perfect sense—"swords" most likely means actual swords and "horses" probably means horses and not contemporary weaponry—Imam Mahdi (a) emerges AFTER Malhama Al-Kubra i.e. the "Great Battle" (Armageddon) when civilization as we know it has been utterly decimated and human population has been reduced by 66 - 90%.

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On 12/5/2021 at 6:07 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Ramla

Where is "Ramia"?

On 12/5/2021 at 6:07 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

the Russians and those around them from the nations of Eastern Europe

Is this referring to the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe?

On 12/5/2021 at 6:07 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

exits to the island

Perhaps Malta or Cyprus? Possibly referring to the long dispute between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots? 

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On 12/5/2021 at 6:07 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

The reason is that they surrendered to the theory of materialist and atheistic communism and did not resist its influence.

Well, same can be said of vast majority of ME peoples who did not resist the tsunami of Western disseminated influences such as: secularism, communism, socialism, nationalism etc. that ran rampant during the 30's, 40's, 50's 60's etc. Shame on us more because we have been blessed with Islam and we forsook our Dīn for these manmade systems and ideologies. 

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On 12/5/2021 at 6:07 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Mongols

Could possibly be referring to the Chinese? "Mongol" as a general term for Far Eastern Asiatic people?

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On 12/5/2021 at 8:25 AM, Muntazir e Mahdi said:

Hmm. I was thinking about this. The Euphrates uncovering a mountain of gold. Is it possible that this is a metaphorical? Perhaps that mountain of gold can represent something... It seems unlikely, and I am not learned enough to support the idea myself, but I thought I would mention it.

Could mean literal gold or other precious metals (i.e. silver, copper, lithium, cobalt, tungsten, rare earth elements) or even 'black gold' (i.e. oil, petroleum) which is as valuable as actual gold on the international market.

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On 12/4/2021 at 6:58 AM, islamicmusic said:

Sham meant the whole area from Damascus to Costantinople back then. There was no Turkey, so the whole area was known by Arabs as Sham.

Not true. Sham was and stil is the Levant region (Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Jordan). Kurdistan is the Jazira region. Constantinople and modern-day Turkey was known as Rum. So no Turkey was and is not Sham.

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On 12/11/2021 at 8:57 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

Where is "Ramia"?

Sorry it's mistake in translation of " Ramallah "

On 12/11/2021 at 8:57 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

Is this referring to the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe?

I don't find anything specific about it anyway some of servants of Imam Hasan Asqari(عليه السلام) has mentioned as Saqaleba صقالبه from this region anyway base of some terrorist  groups likewise MKO terrorists  & members of ISIS/daesh have bases in Alabania which they are supporting  by America  & Zionist Israel in Albania & rest of eastern european  countries.

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On 12/11/2021 at 9:20 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

Could possibly be referring to the Chinese? "Mongol" as a general term for Far Eastern Asiatic people?

I have not found anything about relation of Chinese to Mongols & their invasion however in past when Silk road has been active , Iranian merchants could spread Shia Islam in China which after shutting down of it Shia communities have lost their connectin so then absored to Sunni majority in China anyway there is still traces of Ismailis are available between old generations in remote villages of China which nowadays Iran has renewed  it's historical   relation  with China through "Road & belt" project between China & Iran 

also in some narration it has mentioned that Imam Mahdi (aj) will conquer China(Sin صین) after his reappearance  

 

Quote

Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: “Hadrat al-Qa’im (‘a) will prepare three banners for (operations in) three regions. He will dispatch a banner to Constantinople30 and God will open it for him (i.e., he will conquer it); he will send another banner to China and it will also be opened for him, and he will send the third banner for the mountains of Daylam,31 which will be overrun by his forces.”32

Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: “When Hadrat al-Qa’im (‘عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) stages the uprising, he will conquer Constantinople, Sin (China),27 and the mountains of Daylam, and he will rule for seven years.”28

 

Quote

Abu Hamzah ath-Thumali said: “I heard Imam al-Baqir (‘a) saying: ‘At the time of the advent of the Qa’im of Muhammad’s Progeny (‘a), he will have a sword with him, which he will unsheathe, and through him God will conquer the lands of Rome,37 China, Turkistan,38 Daylam, Sind, Hind,39 Kabul, Sham, and Khazar.”40

 

Quote

Sin (China) is said to refer to East Asia which includes the former Soviet Union, India, Nepal, Burma (Myanmar), Vietnam, Japan, the China Sea, and the Korean Peninsula. See Al-Munjid.
 

 

Quote

Turkistan is located in the continent of Asia and divided between China and the ex-Soviet Union including Uighur China, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tashkand, Tajikistan, Qaranjir, and Kazakhstan. See I‘lam al-Munjid.

 

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  Quote
Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: “Hadrat al-Qa’im (‘a) will prepare three banners for (operations in) three regions. He will dispatch a banner to Constantinople30 and God will open it for him (i.e., he will conquer it); he will send another banner to China and it will also be opened for him, and he will send the third banner for the mountains of Daylam,31 which will be overrun by his forces.”32

Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: “When Hadrat al-Qa’im (‘عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) stages the uprising, he will conquer Constantinople, Sin (China),27 and the mountains of Daylam, and he will rule for seven years.”28

 

  Quote
Abu Hamzah ath-Thumali said: “I heard Imam al-Baqir (‘a) saying: ‘At the time of the advent of the Qa’im of Muhammad’s Progeny (‘a), he will have a sword with him, which he will unsheathe, and through him God will conquer the lands of Rome,37 China, Turkistan,38 Daylam, Sind, Hind,39 Kabul, Sham, and Khazar.”40

 

  Quote
Sin (China) is said to refer to East Asia which includes the former Soviet Union, India, Nepal, Burma (Myanmar), Vietnam, Japan, the China Sea, and the Korean Peninsula. See Al-Munjid.
 

 

  Quote
Turkistan is located in the continent of Asia and divided between China and the ex-Soviet Union including Uighur China, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tashkand, Tajikistan, Qaranjir, and Kazakhstan. See I‘lam al-Munjid.

https://www.al-islam.org/overview-mahdis-عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف-government-najmuddin-tabasi/wars-imam-al-mahdi-afs

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On 12/11/2021 at 8:57 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

Perhaps Malta or Cyprus? Possibly referring to the long dispute between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots? 

 

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The Turks arriving at an island (al-jazirah)

Salam The Island (al-Jazirah) means places in Syria & Iraq which are between at lesst two rivers which Arabs call it al-Jazirah which are good places for farming due having easy access to water & reach soil which can be a part of GAP's  project of Turkey for stealing or conquering  water sources & reach soils in Syria & Iraq in name of fighting  with terrorism  & rebellious  Kurds in these regions when supports wahabi terrorists in these regions too for  destabilizing these regions then conquering  these regions in name of fighting with terrorism .

 

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ﷲ اکبر

I am so happy to see so much discussion! I am learning a lot. I just saw through the massive influx of post just now, since ShiaChat got banned in Pakistan again and I am currently giving my university semester finals which are keeping me busy.

I hope this topic keeps traction, as truly this is very intriguing.

جزاک ﷲ

Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts so far!

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On 12/16/2021 at 1:27 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

however in past when Silk road has been active , Iranian merchants could spread Shia Islam in China which after shutting down of it Shia communities have lost their connectin so then absored to Sunni majority in China anyway there is still traces of Ismailis are available between old generations in remote villages of China

Very interesting

On 12/16/2021 at 1:27 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

nowadays Iran has renewed  it's historical   relation  with China through "Road & belt" project between China & Iran 

That's good news...hopefully the economic relationship continues to grow...I don't fully trust the CCP either though...I wish the Chinese weren't helping the Saudis to build their ballistic missile program.

On 12/16/2021 at 1:27 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

also in some narration it has mentioned that Imam Mahdi (aj) will conquer China(Sin صین) after his reappearance 

Buddhists are awaiting the appearance (or reappearance) of an 'Exalted One' or a 'Fully Awakened One' (i.e. the Maitreya Buddha)...they believe this Buddha has lived "many lives" (i.e. reincarnation)…if we can reinterpret these "many lives" or "reincarnation" to mean an extended or prolonged period of life whereby "many lives" or life experiences have been lived (i.e. 1200 years) then a common understanding can be amalgamated...also, the number 7 is largely associated with al-Qāʾim and the last "incarnation" of Maitreya Buddha...he will attain bodhi in 7 days...Buddhist scholars aren't exactly sure what 'bodhi' means in this eschatological context...some speculate that it could be refering to a type of enlightenment or supreme insight...Maitreya Buddha will usher in a new golden age and will establish the Ketumati Pure Land (i.e. earthly paradise)…he will cleanse the earth and walk a series of 7 step sequences and every 7th step will leave behind a ruby or a lotus flower...he will enter his final birth cycle (read: final phase of prolonged life period)…he will teach humanity of the ten non-virtuous deeds (killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, divisive speech, abusive speech, idle speech, covetousness, harmful intent and wrong views) and the ten virtuous deeds (the abandonment of: killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, divisive speech, abusive speech, idle speech, covetousness, harmful intent and wrong views) etc. etc.  

Edited by Eddie Mecca
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