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In the Name of God بسم الله

Do Shia Islam Endorse Abortion Tainted Vaccines?

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slavelight

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As of 16 May 2020, using mostly primary sources available on the internet, we find that at least 181 abortions have been performed to develop fetal cell lines for the manufacturing of vaccines, including the Covid-19 vaccines in development. Those cell lines are documented here.

 

Polio Vaccine

Albert Sabin references two abortions when he cultivated the polio virus on embryonic tissues in 1936 “A new approach was made by the use of 3- to 4-months-old human embryos, obtained aseptically by Cesarean section. (The authors are indebted to Dr. Lance Monroe, of Bellevue Hospital, for the 2 human embryos used in this investigation.)”[1] Joan Thicke reports five abortions used in his cultivation of polio virus in embryonic tissues: “Virus mutliplied successively therefore in cells derived from five different human embryos.”[2]  In 1954, Dr. John Franklin Enders, Dr. Thomas Huckle Weller, and Dr. Frederick Chapman Robbins won the Nobel Prize in Medicine for their discovery that polio virus could be cultured in various tissues, including human embryonic tissue.[3]  Their research indicates that there must have been a minimum of two abortions as human embryonic tissue “was obtained under sterile precautions at the time of abdominal hysterotomy for therapeutic indications.  Embryos of between 12 and 18 weeks gestation have been utilized.”[4]

Research and Development in General

Dr. Stanley Plotkin, in a deposition in January 2018, talks about how 76 aborted fetuses were used to “determine whether or not they could be used to make vaccines.”[5]

WI-38

WI-38 is the cell line created from the lung of a twelve week old gestation girl, aborted in 1962 in Sweden.[6]  WI stands for Wistar Institute; the number represents the fetal sample.  Some fetal samples were taken from the same baby, but WI-1 through WI-25 were 19 different babies.[7]  WI-38 is currently used in the following FDA-licensed vaccines: Adenovirus, MMR (MMR-II), MMRV (Proquad).  No longer available on the CDC’s excipient list, one can find WI-38 listed in the above vaccine package inserts, which can be found at FDA.gov.

RA 27/3 & Rubella Vaccine

In the development of the rubella vaccine in the late 1960s, scientists needed a baby that had rubella to culture the virus.  In the FDA’s MMR II vaccine insert in the second paragraph, it lists how the vaccine was prepared “the Wistar RA 27/3 strain of live attenuated rubella virus propagated in WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts.”[8]  Wistar RA 27/3 stands for Rubella Abortus 27th fetus 3rd tissue explant.[9]    The virus strains from this baby were then cultured on WI-38 and tested on orphans in PA.[10]  From a journal article about the culturing of rubella in fetal cells, “Observations upon the growth of four strains of rubella virus in human diploid cell strains (HDCS) are reported.  Sixtythree cell strains, derived from 29 fetuses by means of an organ culture technique, were studied.  All HDCS were susceptible to rubella virus and a chronic infection could be established readily in them.”[11]

The rubella vaccine was then tested on pregnant women “to evaluate the fetal hazard of accidental administration of live rubella vaccine.”[12] 35 babies were aborted in this study.

MRC-5

MRC-5 is the cell line created from the lung of a fourteen week old gestation boy, aborted in 1966 in England.[13]  MRC stands for Medical Research Council Cell Strain 5.[14]  At least one abortion was done to develop this line.  MRC-5 is currently used in the following FDA-licensed vaccines as listed in the CDC Excipient Table[15] and individual vaccine package inserts found on FDA.gov: DTap-IPV (Quadracel), DTap-IPV/HiB (Pentacel), Hep A (Havrix), Hep A/Hep B (Twinrix), MMRV (Proquad), Rabies (Imovax), Varicella (Varivax), Shingles (Zostavax).

HEK-293

In 1972, the cell line Human Embryonic Kidney 293 (HEK-293) was made.[16] At least one abortion was used to get this cell line.  In 2020, numerous COVID19 vaccines were developed with HEK-293, including but not limited to, Moderna’s mRNA-1273 COVID19 vaccine which uses the Spike (S) protein.[17]  This Spike (S) protein is expressed in HEK-293.[18]  The Jenner Institute began developing a COVID19 vaccine using ChAdOx1 technology in 2020.[19] ChAdOx1 was developed using HEK-293 cells.[20]  The University of Pittsburgh also developed a COVID-19 vaccine–PittCoVacc, using HEK-293.[21]  China’s CanSino Biologics’ Ad5-nCoV also uses HEK-293.[22]

IMR-90

In 1975, IMR-90 was created “as a replacement for the cell line known as WI-38. The IMR-90 cell line, like WI-38, was derived from lung tissue of a human female embryo following therapeutic abortion. In addition to its use for vaccine production and as a reference cell line for functional studies, it has been used in a variety of other studies, including senescence, cellular transport, and DNA repair.”[23] 

PER.C6

In 1985, PER.C6 was aborted in the Netherlands.  The retina was harvested from an 18-week old gestation baby, and the fetal cell line was created.[24]  PER.C6 is used in the following vaccines that have not yet been licensed by the FDA: HIV, RSV, Ebola, Zika, MERS[25], COVID-19.[26]

WALVAX-2

In 2015, out of nine fetuses, the Walvax-2 cell line was created from a three month girl fetus aborted in China. “We also assessed the susceptibility of these cells to rabies, hepatitis A, and Varicella viruses. Analysis of virus titers showed the Walvax-2 cells to be equal or superior to MRC-5 cells for cultivating these viruses.”[27]

SUMMARY

To summarize, at least 181 murdered babies have been used in the research and development of vaccines: a minimum of nine in the development of the polio vaccine, 76 in general R&D, 19 in the development of WI-38, 64 in the development of RA 27/3, one in the development of MRC-5, one in the development of HEK-293, one in the development of IMR-90, one in the development of PER.C6, nine in the development of Walvax-2.

 

Stanley Protkin: known for Vaccinology, immunology

Q: Have you ever used orphans to study experimental vaccines?

A: Yes.

Q. Have you ever used the mentally handicap to study experimental vaccines?

A: (Hesitant until he was cited from his own writings, whereby he confirmed.) Yes. 

Q: Have you experimented on the children of mothers in prison or jail?

A: Yes.

There is an about 9 hour interview on this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiNzMmNUVHukXBG7ZdFzt7A

 

http://nodeception.org/aborted-fetal-cell-lines-used-in-vaccines/

https://healthfreedomidaho.org/181-aborted-babies/

https://healthfreedomidaho.org/religious-leaders-endorse-abortion-tainted-vaccinations/

https://www.winterwatch.net/2020/04/godfather-of-vaccines-freely-admits-to-unethical-skulduggery-during-legal-deposition/

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/doctor-who-invented-rubella-vaccine-working-to-fight-the-coronavirus.html

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A recent article was published by Christian leader/author John Piper approaches this moral dilemma by asking these questions: Can I Take a Vaccine Made from Aborted Babies? 

My questions to believers: Can Christians, fearful of viruses, ignore the child sacrifice used to create a technology in order to ‘benefit’ from it? Can the GOD we trust, honor our use of this “medical product” to keep us “healthy”? 
NO! God will not honor this medical product built on child sacrifice for our protection, it is counter to his holy character!

https://healthfreedomidaho.org/181-aborted-babies/

 

The development of vaccines, using the harvested organs of aborted human beings, violates the moral conviction of many individuals from a variety of religious backgrounds. The fact that vaccines were created on the bodies of aborted babies has never been hidden. Recently the “major religions” leaders have come out saying that injecting yourself for your health protection with a product developed on the bodies of murdered innocent humans is morally acceptable.

 

Is this the same stance in shia islam?

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7 hours ago, slavelight said:

including the Covid-19 vaccines in development.

Salam at least it doesn't  happened in Iran for development  of "Covid-19 vaccines" 

 

7 hours ago, slavelight said:

Recently the “major religions” leaders have come out saying that injecting yourself for your health protection with a product developed on the bodies of murdered innocent humans is morally acceptable.

non of Shia Marjas have accepted  such thing nevertheless  anti vaxer christians don't  care about idea of other religions  which Shia Islam is unknown  for majority  of them which in most of times  they can't  recognize shia scholars  & leaders  from Sunnis which in UAE sunni clerics have said even if covid vaccines contains  pork cells then injection  of it has no problem  but on the other hand Shia Marjas are against  injection  of any vaccine  that contains  any Haram material likewise cells of dead humans .

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6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Shia Marjas are against  injection  of any vaccine  that contains  any Haram material likewise cells of dead humans .

Disease

    Cell line
Adenovirus     WI-38
Chickenpox     MRC-5 & WI-38
Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Polio, HIB     MRC-5
Hepatitis A     MRC-5
Hepatitis A     MRC-5
Hepatitis A-B     MRC-5
Measles, Mumps, Rubella     WI-38
Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Chickenpox     MRC-5 & WI-38
Rabies     MRC-5
Shingles     MRC-5

 

Does not any of these shots get taken by shia muslim. Is there any fatwa from shia marja against these vaccines?
Which covid vaccines do they take in iran.

 

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This is what I could find:

Vaccine makers may use these fetal cell lines during the following two phases:  

  • Research and development 
  • Production and manufacturing  

When it comes to the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines, fetal cell line HEK 293 was used during the research and development phase. All HEK 293 cells are descended from tissue taken from a 1973 abortion that took place in the Netherlands.

For the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, fetal cell lines were used in the production and manufacturing stage. To make the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, scientists infect PER.C6 fetal cell lines to grow the adenovirus vector. All PER.C6 cells used to manufacture the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are descended from tissue taken from a 1985 abortion that took place in the Netherlands.

Astrazeneca used the HEK 293 cell line to manufacture its vaccine

What's the shia standpoint on this issue? Do Shia islam endorse abortion tainted vaccines? If not, why has there not been any objection?

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Salam, 

There is a difference between cells of dead babies / humans and cell lines. Here is what a cell line is

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/cell-lines

Cell lines are cultures of animal cells that can be propagated repeatedly and sometimes indefinitely, a cell line.

(Also applies to human beings, which some scientists consider to be animals)

A cell culture is the process by which cells are grown under controlled conditions, generally outside their natural environment. After the cells of interest have been isolated from living tissue, they can subsequently be maintained under carefully controlled conditions.

From https://www.americanlaboratory.com/914-Application-Notes/30798-The-Significance-of-pH-Stability-for-Cell-Cultures/

So a cell line grows a cell from a primary line outside of that cell and it becomes a new cell, based on the dna from the old one. 

In Islam, when something that may be initially haram undergoes a chemical change, i.e. the basic chemistry of that thing changes, it is no longer haram, because it is something else and not that thing it was before. 

For example, if wine becomes vinegar, it is not longer najis. If urine is distilled, and there is no longer a smell, taste, or color of urine in it, it is not najis. 

Therefore, if a new cell is grown using DNA from another cell, that new cell has undergone a chemical change, and it is a different thing. It is not a dead human cell. It is a living cell that was made using the DNA of another cell. 

So the fatwa you posted does not apply to the vaccine. There is no marjaa' that I know of that has cited this that you posted in relation to the vaccine. Noone says it is haram to take it. Please don't buy into conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact. 

The fatawa concerning abortion does not extend to the cell lines derived from the fetus. Fatawa concerning haram / najis are always limited in nature. For example, if someone pees on your carpet, does your whole house become najis ? No only the parts of the carpet where the urine has touched or soaked thru onto. Everything else is tahir. 

If a women has an abortion, and she is Rushd, and Baligh, and she knows the fatwa concerning abortion, and her health is not at risk from having the baby, then she has done something haram, a major sin. Same goes for the doctor who performed the abortion and medical staff who helped with it, provided those conditions also apply to them. They should do tauba for this. 

At the same time, the haram nature of this act does not extend to everything surrounding the act. The doctors office does not become haram to visit, it is still tahir, a person who is in need of medical care can still go there, etc. Cell lines derived from that aborted fetus do not become haram, because they have undergone a chemical change. This is according to what I know. If you have some fatwa from marjaa' concerning cell lines derived from aborted fetuses, please post. 

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Salaam, it still doesn't sit well with me.

Can someone help me understand better how a cell line is the same as wine to vinegar? Deriving a cell line from a cell just seems like multiplication of the original cell, not a literal chemical "change"...

Either way, the genesis of the cell line is still from a spiritually impure origin. Im not so much worried about the physical najasah issue as i am the spiritual one.

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On 11/28/2021 at 12:41 PM, Abu Hadi said:

So the fatwa you posted does not apply to the vaccine. There is no marjaa' that I know of that has cited this that you posted in relation to the vaccine. Noone says it is haram to take it. Please don't buy into conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact. 

waleykum salam,

I have not posted any fatwa. I was wondering if there's any fatwa regarding this subject. The replies above are copy pasted from the links included.


If shia scholars are not objecting this, I would assume they are endorsing this. Since many muslims in the west and east are taking these vaccines which are linked to the fetuses that were aborted and used for:     Research and development &  Production and manufacturing

I have only heard objections from few small christian and non christian groups, who suggested that one look for alternative vaccines which do not have any trace of these fetuses.
These vaccines mentioned above, amongst others, have cell lines derived from the fetuses which do contain the DNA and protein of the original fetuses.

I must also mention that wi-38 diploid human cell line derived from lung tissue of a 3 month female fetuse was used without the mothers permission or knowledge.

"Apart from the fact that some people feel uncomfortable about its links to abortion, the woman whose foetus the cells came from, who Wadman has named “Mrs X”, did not consent to its use. In fact, she didn’t even know about it until years later, when she was contacted by someone from the Karolinska Institute who was hoping for a more detailed medical history." https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201103-the-controversial-cells-that-saved-10-million-lives

On 11/28/2021 at 12:41 PM, Abu Hadi said:

In Islam, when something that may be initially haram undergoes a chemical change, i.e. the basic chemistry of that thing changes, it is no longer haram, because it is something else and not that thing it was before. 

But in this case it's not something else. The cell lines can still be traced back to the original fetuses containing DNA and protein. Isn't this considered playing god? transgression? How far can one take these rulings.

“The issue of concern is that many common vaccines were developed using cell lines that originally were cells taken from electively aborted babies. The vaccines themselves do not contain fetal cells, but there are significant“residual” biological components from the fetal cells that have been assimilated into the vaccine, including cell proteins and measurable portions of fetal DNA." https://rtl.org/educational-materials/vaccines-abortion/

How is this morally and ethically acceptable in shia islam? Wouldn't it be better to make fatwa that says that one must look for alternative vaccines which do not have any trace of the aborted fetuses. I am shia muslim but have not heard this mentioned from any muslim group. Some few small non religious and religous groups are taking their stand on this issue and disapproves of these vaccines.

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12 hours ago, slavelight said:

Does not any of these shots get taken by shia muslim. Is there any fatwa from shia marja against these vaccines?
Which covid vaccines do they take in iran.

Salam It's different in any counry which outside of Iran likewise Iraq & Britain majority of Shia muslims have taken AstraZeneca but on the other hand in Iran majority have received Sinopharm & few people AstraZeneca & domestic Barakat vaccine which Imam Khamenei have prohibited any vaccince which has made by America  & Britain but on the other hand he has recieved domestic vaccine  of Barakat & endoresed it also he has supported rest of domestic  vaccines on the other hand in Iraq late Ayatollah  Hakim(رضي الله عنه) have received  AstraZeneca  nevertheless  his death has had no relation with receiving  vaccine.

https://www.hawzahnews.com/news/951173/تزریق-واکسن-کرونا-به-آیت-الله-العظمی-حکیم

Quote

Iraq's religious establishment is supporting and working closely with the government to contain the COVID-19 pandemic's spread, though a minority of clerics are disregarding precautions and spreading disinformation among the public.

Quote

Religious authorities not only issued fatwas, they also offered their facilities to the Health Ministry to quarantine and treat the infected. Sistani representative Abdul Mahdi al-Karbalai, in a meeting with Allawi, said all the facilities of the Shiite holy shrines are available to the ministry for dealing with confirmed and suspected cases.

Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2020/03/iraq-coronavirus-covid19-najaf-sistani-religion.html#ixzz7DaMCnuw9

Top Shiite cleric Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani has issued a series of fatwas to promote social distancing and avoid religious gatherings, to curb the virus' transmission.

In his latest fatwa, issued March 22, he said social distancing is a mandatory religious task if there is any possibility of passing the virus to others. He added that anyone showing symptoms of the virus that causes COVID-19 should self-isolate and avoid putting others at risk. Anyone who passes the virus intentionally to someone who subsequently dies is considered a murderer.

Sistani had previously issued a fatwa asking his followers to obey Health Ministry recommendations to avoid attending religious ceremonies and to close religious sites.

In the same vein, another grand ayatollah, Sayyid Muhammad Saeed al-Hakim, ordered his followers to abide by authorities’ instructions and health experts' guidance, declaring disobedience a religiously forbidden act. The top Shiite cleric in Baghdad, Hussein al-Sadr, also asked all citizens to follow the ministry’s instructions.

Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2020/03/iraq-coronavirus-covid19-najaf-sistani-religion.html#ixzz7DaLjNOtx

Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2020/03/iraq-coronavirus-covid19-najaf-sistani-religion.html#ixzz7DaLNWIrW

 

Quote

Despite the campaign by the religious authorities to support the government’s measures, some controversial clerics like Muqtada al-Sadr opposed closing the shrines, and others like Sheikh Ali al-Samawi encouraged followers to attend all religious ceremonies, promising they would not be infected by the virus under any circumstances.

Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2020/03/iraq-coronavirus-covid19-najaf-sistani-religion.html#ixzz7DaMVHwrM

The following questions pertaining to the Coronavirus vaccine were sent to his Eminence Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Sistani (DZ) from The Islamic Education Department at the World Federation.

 

Quote

 

Question 1: Vaccines against Coronavirus have already been manufactured by Pfizer, AstraZeneca & Moderna, and others are expected, or already on the market. The medical authorities of several countries have approved these vaccines and authorised mass vaccination programmes, despite some side effects. Some muqallideen are apprehensive about the vaccines’ potential side effects, as the testing & approval processes were expedited by the authorities, given the urgency of the pandemic. Some ethnic groups, based on previous negative experiences with mass vaccination programmes, are sceptical about these vaccines, although no serious side-effects have been observed in most cases. In such circumstances, what does His Eminence advise?

Answer 1: In such circumstances, it is appropriate to rely on the advice given by experienced medical experts. As per Shari’ah, it is mandatory to use an approved vaccine in a situation when the probability of suffering from the Coronavirus infection, with its potentially life threatening and/or serious untreatable complications, far outweigh the probable serious side effects of getting vaccinated.

Question 2: Governments have set up prioritisation programmes, so that high-risk groups are vaccinated first. This includes, the elderly, public safety officials and others at significant risk. Is it necessary to observe this prioritisation program, or is it permissible to jump the queue by paying money and get vaccinated earlier?

Answer 2: It is not permissible to violate the prioritization scheme if its mandated by the law of the land.

Question 3: Some developing countries may not have the financial means to procure and make available vaccines for all their citizens. If doctors recommend taking the vaccine, and if private funds do not suffice to procure, distribute and administer the vaccines inside and outside the Jamaat, would His Eminence grant permission to use religious funds for this purpose?

Answer 3: In cases where necessary there is no objection.

Question 4: If a vaccine manufacturer appeals for volunteers to participate in trials for vaccine efficacy and safety, can mu’mineen join the trial if the manufacturer gives assurance of careful monitoring and caution for the safety of the volunteers, though there may be risk of unexpected side-effects, which in some cases could be lethal?

Answer 4: If it has potentially lethal or extremely serious untreatable complications, then it’s not allowed; unless the risk is low and negligible.

Question 5: In order to stabilize the vaccine, manufacturers use several additives. Sometimes this can include porcine gelatine. Is it sufficient to rely on the manufacturers’ non-declaration, or declaration of non-usage of such gelatine? If there is a possibility of chemical transformation during the manufacturing process, is it necessary to investigate? If the amount of gelatine is not negligible, would emergency use to prevent a potentially life-threatening infection, justify its inoculation?

Answer 5: In all (the above) circumstances there is no legal Shar’i objection.

Seal of the Office of Agha Sistani (may his life be lengthened), Najaf e Ashraf.


Sunday, December 27, 2020
2020-12-27

https://en.abna24.com/index.php/news//grand-ayatollah-sistani’s-answer-to-some-questions-on-covid-19-vaccine_1109289.html

http://irdiplomacy.ir/fa/news/1999410/نظر-آیت-الله-سیستانی-درباره-تزریق-واکسن-کرونا

Questions About CoronaVirus (COVID 19)

https://www.sistani.org/english/archive/26405/

Iran’s Supreme Leader Khamenei receives local COVID vaccine

Quote

Tehran, Iran – Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Hosseini Khamenei has received a dose of the country’s first locally developed COVID-19 vaccine.

Khamenei on Friday called the development of the vaccine a point of “national pride”.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/25/irans-supreme-leader-receives-local-covid-vaccine

Ayatollah Javadi Amoli has all added: Believers should not comment on work that they do not specialize in, and should not scare others from being vaccinated.

Quote

What do imitators think about the corona vaccine?

Jamaran: The opinion of imitation authorities in response to a question about some comments about corona vaccination, indicates that believers should follow the diagnosis and advice of medical experts in the matter of their vaccination, while intimidating others in this matter is not allowed.
What do imitators think about the corona vaccine?

Ayatollahs Nasser Makarem Shirazi, Seyyed Mohammad Ali Alavi Gorgani and Abdullah Javadi Amoli expressed their views on the corona vaccine injection and some intimidating vaccine measures.

The opinion of the imitators in response to a question about some comments about corona vaccination, indicates that believers should follow the diagnosis and advice of medical experts in the matter of their vaccination, while it is not permissible to scare others in this matter.

 

According to this report, Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi has stated in his opinion: It is necessary to act according to the diagnosis and advice of experts in this field.

Ayatollah Alavi Gorgani also pointed out: the issue of necessity or non-necessity of vaccination and whether it is personal or social should be determined by medical experts.

Ayatollah Javadi Amoli has all added: Believers should not comment on work that they do not specialize in, and should not scare others from being vaccinated.

 
 

https://donya-e-eqtesad.com/بخش-سایت-خوان-62/3813023-نظر-مراجع-تقلید-درباره-واکسن-کرونا-چیست

 

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13 hours ago, slavelight said:

Disease

    Cell line
Adenovirus     WI-38
Chickenpox     MRC-5 & WI-38
Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Polio, HIB     MRC-5
Hepatitis A     MRC-5
Hepatitis A     MRC-5
Hepatitis A-B     MRC-5
Measles, Mumps, Rubella     WI-38
Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Chickenpox     MRC-5 & WI-38
Rabies     MRC-5
Shingles     MRC-5

 

You have wrong approach about data & information because in producing  vaccines all carriers of disease have been neutralized  which the carriers likewise Adenovirus are carrying neutralized virus or mrna & dna of viruses for preparing immunity  system for fighting  with real virus which for more information  Adenovirus is not a disease which some diseases likewise common cold are from Adenovirus family which vaccine makers use neutralized structure of it for making vaccines  in similar fashion rest of cell lines are showing  structure of carrier not cause of disease.

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8 hours ago, slavelight said:

waleykum salam,

I have not posted any fatwa. I was wondering if there's any fatwa regarding this subject. The replies above are copy pasted from the links included.


If shia scholars are not objecting this, I would assume they are endorsing this. Since many muslims in the west and east are taking these vaccines which are linked to the fetuses that were aborted and used for:     Research and development &  Production and manufacturing

I have only heard objections from few small christian and non christian groups, who suggested that one look for alternative vaccines which do not have any trace of these fetuses.
These vaccines mentioned above, amongst others, have cell lines derived from the fetuses which do contain the DNA and protein of the original fetuses.

I must also mention that wi-38 diploid human cell line derived from lung tissue of a 3 month female fetuse was used without the mothers permission or knowledge.

"Apart from the fact that some people feel uncomfortable about its links to abortion, the woman whose foetus the cells came from, who Wadman has named “Mrs X”, did not consent to its use. In fact, she didn’t even know about it until years later, when she was contacted by someone from the Karolinska Institute who was hoping for a more detailed medical history." https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201103-the-controversial-cells-that-saved-10-million-lives

 

But in this case it's not something else. The cell lines can still be traced back to the original fetuses containing DNA and protein. Isn't this considered playing god? transgression? How far can one take these rulings.


“The issue of concern is that many common vaccines were developed using cell lines that originally were cells taken from electively aborted babies. The vaccines themselves do not contain fetal cells, but there are significant“residual” biological components from the fetal cells that have been assimilated into the vaccine, including cell proteins and measurable portions of fetal DNA."             https://rtl.org/educational-materials/vaccines-abortion/

 

How is this morally and ethically acceptable in shia islam? Wouldn't it be better to make fatwa that says that one must look for alternative vaccines which do not have any trace of the aborted fetuses. I am shia muslim but have not heard this mentioned from any muslim group. Some few small non religious and religous groups are taking their stand on this issue and disapproves of these vaccines.

 

 

There is another point which I didn't bring up in my first post. New cell lines are being created all the time, and many are not derived from aborted fetuses. There are now new techniques to derive cell lines in which this is not necessary. So, how does one know that the dose of the vaccine one is taking IS derived from a cell line of an aborted fetus. You have no way of knowing this. Even if you ask the nurse, doctor who is administering the vaccine this question they will not know. So you are assuming this, which is not correct. 

So this is another reason why you shouldn't hesitate to take the vaccine because 'maybe some' doses were derived from cell lines of aborted fetuses.

I will partially agree with one of your points. If there were a vaccine available in which none of the cell lines were derived from cells of an aborted fetus, then yes, we should prefer that vaccine if it is available to us. This is not reality at the current time. We have to deal with reality, as it is, not as we want it to be. The benefits of taking the vaccine , possibly saving your own life and the lives of many others, far outweigh the possible ethical quandary of the origin of the cell lines. So that is why all of the marjaa' and most Islamic scholars of all mathahib as well as most responsible Christian leaders are telling their members and followers to get vaccinated. 

 

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On 11/29/2021 at 7:49 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

You have wrong approach about data & information because in producing  vaccines all carriers of disease have been neutralized  which the carriers likewise Adenovirus are carrying neutralized virus or mrna & dna of viruses for preparing immunity  system for fighting  with real virus which for more information  Adenovirus is not a disease which some diseases likewise common cold are from Adenovirus family which vaccine makers use neutralized structure of it for making vaccines  in similar fashion rest of cell lines are showing  structure of carrier not cause of disease.

I am not sure we understood each other. The vaccines for these diseases below contains or are produced from WI-38 & MRC-5. Do they not take vaccine against these diseases in your country? I suggest you check the ingredient list of those vaccines and ask if they are produced using WI-38 & MRC-5. Since this can vary depending on manufacturer & region.

Here's an example below:

 

Disease

Vaccine Name Manufacturer Cell line
Adenovirus   Barr Labs., Inc WI-38
Chickenpox Varivax Merck & Co. MRC-5 & WI-38
Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Polio, HIB Pentacel Sanofi Pasteur MRC-5
Hepatitis A Havrix GlaxoSmithKline MRC-5
Hepatitis A Vaqta Merck & Co. MRC-5
Hepatitis A-B Twinrix GlaxoSmithKline MRC-5
Measles, Mumps, Rubella MMR II Merck & Co. WI-38
Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Chickenpox ProQuad Merck & Co. MRC-5 & WI-38
Rabies Imovax Sanofi Pasteur MRC-5
Shingles Zostavax Merck & Co. MRC-
     
       
       
https://www.ohiolife.org/vaccines_abortion_fetal_tissue      
       
       
       
       
       
       
       

 

 

 

     
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
Edited by slavelight
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20 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

So, how does one know that the dose of the vaccine one is taking IS derived from a cell line of an aborted fetus. You have no way of knowing this. Even if you ask the nurse, doctor who is administering the vaccine this question they will not know. So you are assuming this, which is not correct. 

So this is another reason why you shouldn't hesitate to take the vaccine because 'maybe some' doses were derived from cell lines of aborted fetuses.

This should be included in the ingredient list as WI-38 & MRC-5.  If it's not included in the final product, then It might be harder to know which are produced using WI-38 , MRC-5  PER.C6, HEK293 amongst others.

https://vaccineingredients.net/vaccines/adenovirus

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/b/excipient-table-2.pdf

 

On 11/28/2021 at 8:20 PM, Guest Forest-Tree said:

Either way, the genesis of the cell line is still from a spiritually impure origin. Im not so much worried about the physical najasah issue as i am the spiritual one.

I am not sure if I understood you correctly. You meant to say spiritually pure origin? Children are pure beings.

I too worry about the spiritual aspect more than the physical

On 11/28/2021 at 8:20 PM, Guest Forest-Tree said:

Can someone help me understand better how a cell line is the same as wine to vinegar? Deriving a cell line from a cell just seems like multiplication of the original cell, not a literal chemical "change"...

I agree with the above, I also don't see how it's a fair comparison

Edited by slavelight
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1 hour ago, slavelight said:

Adenovirus

Salam

Quote

Adenoviruses are common viruses that cause a range of illness. They can cause cold-like symptoms, fever, sore throat, bronchitis, pneumonia, diarrhea, and pink eye (conjunctivitis). You can get an adenovirus infection at any age. People with weakened immune systems or existing respiratory or cardiac disease are more likely than others to get very sick from an adenovirus infection…

https://www.cdc.gov/adenovirus/index.html

Adenovirus-Vector Vaccines

Quote

Like mRNA vaccines, the main idea behind this type of vaccine is to get genetic material that encodes COVID-19 genes into your cells and can get them to make the virus proteins. The main difference is in how they do this: Where the mRNA vaccine is just the mRNA protected by a chemical shell, adenovirus-vectored vaccines use a virus we know is harmless to act as a Trojan horse. But instead of hiding Greek soldiers, or anything dangerous, the adenovirus releases genes that encode the spike protein.

 

Quote

Adenoviruses are a family of viruses that have hundreds of members, and most don’t cause any known disease or only cause mild “common cold”-like symptoms. Scientists developed a way to use strains of adenoviruses that don’t cause disease as a delivery system for vaccines. So we’re using one virus to deliver the vaccine against another. Where that can, in some rare circumstances cause an issue is that, if you have immunity to the adenovirus from previous, natural exposure, it could reduce the vaccine’s ability to deliver the vaccine because your body will reject the delivery system. It’s very rare, but still a possibility.

https://ochsnerlg.org/about-us/news/whats-vax-differences-between-mrna-and-adenovirus-vaccines

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On 11/28/2021 at 2:20 PM, Guest Forest-Tree said:

Salaam, it still doesn't sit well with me.

Can someone help me understand better how a cell line is the same as wine to vinegar? Deriving a cell line from a cell just seems like multiplication of the original cell, not a literal chemical "change"...

Either way, the genesis of the cell line is still from a spiritually impure origin. Im not so much worried about the physical najasah issue as i am the spiritual one.

 

It is changing something into something else. A cell that contains DNA derived from a progenitor cell is not that cell. It is a different cell. A different living being. If you clone a sheep or another animal, that animal is a different living being from the original, although their DNA is the same. 

This was in response to the fatawa posted by the op that says that it is haram to use a vaccine that contains the cells of a dead person or aborted fetus. The vaccine does not contain those cells. There is a possibility that it contains a cell that was derived from that, but that is not the same thing (explained above). 

When you are talking about 'spiritual impurity', I addressed that also in my previous post. It is not ideal that these cells were derived from aborted fetuses. So that is something, not nothing. At the same time, this 'impurity' must be weighed against the greater impurity of avoiding the vaccine and possibly dying as a result or having those of your loved ones or community die because they avoided taking the vaccine.  This is a real risk that could happen. Almost 1,000,000 people in the US alone have died of Covid. That is one in every 326 people. The death rates seem lower in other countries like India and Pakistan from where they normally should be, and that is because the government is reporting Covid deaths as deaths from other causes in order to make themselves look better. There is very credible information from independent sources that they are doing this on a large scale. When the real numbers come out, their people will curse those governments (more than they already do). It is a serious disease that should be taken seriously. 

Especially if someone is elderly or has other conditions like obesity, diabetes, etc, they have a greater risk of dying. So allowing yourself to die when you could have done something to prevent your death is a much, much, much greater spiritual impurity and would be much worse for you on the Day of Judgement vs what the OP is talking about. It is showing ungratefulness to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for the gift that He(s.w.a) has given you, i.e. your life. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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@Ashvazdanghe Brother I am trying to discuss the islamic fiqhs around using abortion tainted vaccines, not what viruses/disease are or what they do. So please don't post unrelevant material that has not to do with fetus cells being used in vaccines.

4 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

This was in response to the fatawa posted by the op that says that it is haram to use a vaccine that contains the cells of a dead person or aborted fetus.

I have not posted any fatwa. I was wondering if any such fatwa does exists considering the ethics and morals involved. I have only heard from some few minor (christian and non religious) groups that said to look for alternative vaccines, have not heard anything from the muslim groups.

 

4 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

It is changing something into something else. A cell that contains DNA derived from a progenitor cell is not that cell. It is a different cell. A different living being. If you clone a sheep or another animal, that animal is a different living being from the original, although their DNA is the same. 

I don't understand the science behind this nor do I think that many people actually do, nor do I think it's important to understand the science behind this to have a sense of the wickedness involved. Was there no other option than to use aborted fetuses.

as an aside, how far can we bend these rulings? If I clone a pig or make products derived from pig cells, am I allowed to eat it?

4 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

When you are talking about 'spiritual impurity', I addressed that also in my previous post. It is not ideal that these cells were derived from aborted fetuses. So that is something, not nothing.

I am not sure if I understood you correctly. But there are ingredient list for every vaccine, some of them have for example Wi-38 and MRC-5 in the final product. Others have only used them during research & development. I did include some links in my previous post, I will include them here too & some more below:

https://vaccineingredients.net/vaccines/adenovirus

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/b/excipient-table-2.pdf

WI-38 is a diploid human cell line composed of fibroblasts derived from lung tissue of a 3-month-gestation female fetus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WI-38

MRC-5  is a diploid cell culture line composed of fibroblasts originally developed from the lung tissue of a 14-week-old aborted Caucasian male fetus.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRC-5

Human embryonic kidney 293 cells, also often referred to as HEK 293, HEK-293, 293 cells, or less precisely as HEK cells, are a specific immortalised cell line derived from an aborted fetus or human embryonic kidney cells grown in tissue culture taken from a female fetus in 1973           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEK_293_cells

 

4 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

At the same time, this 'impurity' must be weighed against the greater impurity of avoiding the vaccine and possibly dying

There's no doubt that many people have died, but Isn't it better to die in a jihad state than to spiritually impure your body and soul with the cells of innocent being (vaccines that contain these cells either in final product or during research & development stage).

 

4 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

So allowing yourself to die when you could have done something to prevent your death is a much, much, much greater spiritual impurity and would be much worse for you on the Day of Judgement vs what the OP is talking about. It is showing ungratefulness to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for the gift that He(s.w.a) has given you, i.e. your life. 

This is were I disagree brother. I have limits to have far I can go for my own survival. Injecting myself with products derived from aborted fetus cells for me is beyond my limits.

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Since you are obviously not listening to anything I am saying regarding your original question, not does it seem you care about actually engaging in a dialogue, rather than just a one way discussion (with yourself), a dialogue requires 'listening' to the other person you are engaging in a dialogue with. I'm done. Fe min Allah. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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