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In the Name of God بسم الله

I Think Child Marriage is Wrong; Am I Not a Muslim Anymore?

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BleedKnee

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It's just...incredibly disheartening how many Muslims in the world, including probably in this site, think the Prophet (s) married a 9 year old. That child marriage is just a regular part of the course of life, when, in actuality, it kills little girls and ruins lives. It's a horrid practice, and, to be honest, if I was convinced that the Prophet (s) did marry a little girl, I'd leave the religion. Because I can't imagine a pathway to God through a man that can do that. 

Anyways, that's my Ted talk. 

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3 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Salaam alaikum, akhi- To be fair, child marriage was the norm in Europe and the Western Europe ,

Correct

 

3 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

from time of Muhammad (

From the time Homo Sapiens emerged on the scene roughly 200,000 years ago 

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6 hours ago, insearchoflight said:

Increase your Iman to a stage where you seek "what you do not know" and not leave "what you know" because something came up which did not align with what you knew.

Hazrat Khizr killed a child. Prophet Musa who was present with him did not kill Hazrat Khizr or attack him or rebuke him or leave the religion. He questioned. 

The answer was eventually given. 

Anyways, child marriage can't be justified and if the Prophet (s) did it, then we have to accept it today. And that's wrong. 

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7 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

From the time Homo Sapiens emerged on the scene roughly 200,000 years ago 

Also true, but I am trying make the point that child marriage was prevalent in Europe during the time of Muhammad (sawas), also the rise of mankind is far older than 200,000 years but that's a different topic for another day.

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Should also add here that I've witnessed situations of child marriage. Most girls that get sold by their fathers to 30-40 year old men die. They nearly all die, because their bodies are not made for sex. Not at 9, not at 10, not at 11 or even 12-13. You're literally sending a little girl to her death when you do that. 

I can't condone such a horrid practice to be honest. And if I ever become convinced that the Prophet (s) did that, I'd leave the religion and you should all join me. 

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14 minutes ago, BleedKnee said:

if the Prophet (s) did it, then we have to accept it today. And that's wrong. 

No, just because the Prophet (sawas) did it, doesn't mean we should accept or try to justify child marriage. We're not trying to forge political alliances between tribes through marriage anymore. We are past tribalism or the need for child marriage. The Muslims who believe Aisha was a child when she was married are justifying child marriage and abuse with weak hadiths and politics. They will never face the same decisions that Muhammad (sawas) had to make. P.S. As I said in my previous post, Aisha was 19 years old when she finally married Muhammad (sawas)

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If you saw an 11 year old girl from that period in time, you would think she was 20. And they didn't have school back then, so what was the difference between a 14 year old and a 22 year old? If an 11 year old marries now, she would be missing out on something great. Back then what was she missing out on, middle school? There was nothing to do except survive. Islam has been attacked from all angles from day one, but never was this a point that our enemies argued against until very recently. Because people back then had the sense to know that different times have different necessities. Not to mention, literally every county and society in the past was like this, they all married young. But humanity didn't collapse, they thrived and prospered and set the foundation for modern society to emerge. Let's see what we've set the foundation for to emerge.

All that said though, she was not 9, she was 19.

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47 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

If you saw an 11 year old girl from that period in time, you would think she was 20.

No, she would still look an eleven year old child, there is a huge difference, physically speaking. That is, if she made it past infancy in that time period.

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16 hours ago, BleedKnee said:

It's just...incredibly disheartening how many Muslims in the world, including probably in this site, think the Prophet (s) married a 9 year old.

1. I'm sure you heard this a lot, but back in 7th century Arabia, the girls would reach puberty really fast. So if Aisha married the Prophet at age 9, she would've already reached puberty.

2. 

Quote

Aisha was a mature woman and not a child as some people claim when she got married with Prophet (SAWA). What is famous among our Sunni brothers according to some of their books, that she was seven or nine years old girl. This is among many famous things which have no authentic evidence as it said in Arabic رُبَّ مشهور لا أصلَ له

They wanted to create a virtue for Aisha by claiming that she was very young when she got married to the Prophet (SAWA). This claim of her very young age contradicts with facts mentioned in their own Sunni books which mentioned the age of her sister Asma Bint Abi Bakr who was ten years older than her.

First fact: Asma Bint Abi Bakr was born 27 years before the Bi'thah of the Prophet (The start of Islam). This fact has been mentioned in many prominent Sunni books like:

Mo'jam Al-Zawaa'id , v.9, p.260.

Omdatol Qaari, 2:93.

al-Mo'jam Al-Kabeer by al-Tabaraani , 24:77.

Tareekh Dimishq by Ibn Asaakir 69:9.

Tahtheeb Al-Asmaa',2:593

Osd Al-Ghaabah, 5:392.

al-Isaabah , 8:14.

Second fact: Aisha was ten years younger than her sister Asma. This fact has been mentioned in many Sunni books like : 

al-Estee'aab 2:616

al-Sunan Al-Khubra by Al-Bayhaqi 6:204

Siyar A'laam Al-Nubalaa' 2:295

Tahtheeb Al-Tahtheeb 2:398

Tareekh Al-Islam by al-Thahabi 5:354

al-Bidayah wal Nihayah 8:381
Osd Al-Ghaabah 5:392

These two facts lead to the fact of the age of Aisha. She was born seventeen years before the Bi'thah. The Prophet remained in Makkah for 13 years the migrated to Madinah. This means that Aisha was thirty years old when the prophet migrated to Madina. The marriage took place two years after migration which means that Aisha was thirty two years old when the marriage was consummated.

Many Sunni scholars have rejected the narrations in their own books about the small age of Aisha despite being narrated in Bukhari book. 
Many enemies of Islam have attacked the Prophet because of the claimed very young age of Aisha which is claimed by some Muslims.

We have authentic evidence as you can read above that Aisha was never a child, but was over thirty years.

Wassalam.

The above was an answer by Sayyed Mohammad Al-Musawi to the question "At what age was Aisha when she married Prophet Muhammad and when did they consummate?"

Link: https://www.al-islam.org/ask/at-what-age-was-aisha-when-she-married-prophet-muhammad-and-when-did-they-consummate

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9 hours ago, BleedKnee said:

Should also add here that I've witnessed situations of child marriage. Most girls that get sold by their fathers to 30-40 year old men die. They nearly all die, because their bodies are not made for sex. Not at 9, not at 10, not at 11 or even 12-13. You're literally sending a little girl to her death when you do that. 

I can't condone such a horrid practice to be honest. And if I ever become convinced that the Prophet (s) did that, I'd leave the religion and you should all join me. 

My grandmother married at age of 13-14 to much more older man who is my grandfather. She felt first scary and confusing but then she loved him so much till his last breath. Both of them were religious and honorable. Nothing is wrong with their marriage and this kind of marriage was common thing in old days.

Now days we are living in very different time and environment where young people are not matured enough and nor do they want to marry either. Thus it is mostly wrong because it will lead to mental problems and all kind of abuses and haram actions. Islam do not accept these kind of marriages that leads people do destruction and haram. 

Now days people use words like wrong very loosely according to their own whims. If marriage at young age brings nothing but goodness, then where is this element of wrong is found in such a marriage that brings nothing but goodness to call such a marriage as absolutely wrong? 

Edited by Abu Nur
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7 hours ago, BleedKnee said:

Should also add here that I've witnessed situations of child marriage. Most girls that get sold by their fathers to 30-40 year old men die. They nearly all die, because their bodies are not made for sex. Not at 9, not at 10, not at 11 or even 12-13. You're literally sending a little girl to her death when you do that. 

I can't condone such a horrid practice to be honest. And if I ever become convinced that the Prophet (s) did that, I'd leave the religion and you should all join me. 

It is haram to force them to marriage. And it is haram to have sex that causes harm to them. 

Edited by Abu Nur
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3 hours ago, Zane Ibrahim said:

Many Sunni scholars have rejected the narrations in their own books about the small age of Aisha despite being narrated in Bukhari book. 
Many enemies of Islam have attacked the Prophet because of the claimed very young age of Aisha which is claimed by some Muslims.

Only in recent time. And there would be another time where they will criticize other Islamic principles. I mean what is the point if aisha is 9 or 18, the concept of marrying 9 year old is still valid in Islam. If something is valid it does not mean we can use it to satisfy our evil needs, rather marriage is not allowed for evil intention that causes harms. 

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Salam,

This is my thought, and i could be wrong.  Just for the sake of discussion.

Marriage has higher purpose.  To complete one's religion.  To commit ourselves in taking care of each other (opposite gender) more than what the parents can deliver.  To harmonize relationship  between family members (from different lineages).  For those couples that are capable, sex is allowed.

What were the purpose of our Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Marriages? Was it the sex the main purpose? Or higher reasons.

In current situation, what is the main purpose of Marriage for many people?

Ask older married couples (age 60+ ), what is Marriage means to them now? Peace in the heart and mind because of the invisible knot that ties the couple together...love and eeman.

If sex is the reason for Marriage then we have loss the value of the marriage.

Instead of Aisha raised in the house of Abu Bakr (beginning) and now raised in the house of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) because of Marriage (to make it legal).  There were benefits to both tribes when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) put Aisha under his roof.  Raising Aisha under the care of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), doesn't mean sex.

Can we imagine if our daughter married a Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Imam (عليه السلام)...how do we feel?  How do we feel feel when the Prophet (عليه السلام) of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is taking care of our daughter instead of us.  Surely the Prophet knows the best ways to raise our daughter.

We don't know secrets of private life between the Prophet and all his wives.  His wives were not allowed to remarry and all secrets were sealed.

Can we at least think why the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has only a daughter (from his first wife), and none from other marriages?  The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was not capable? Or sex was not the reason for his Marriage.  

Wallahualam.

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18 hours ago, BleedKnee said:

nd if I ever become convinced that the Prophet (s) did that, I'd leave the religion and you should all join me

Salam prophet Muhammad (pbu) also has married with more than 4 wives at same time which currently no one between muslims can marries with more than 4 wives because right of marrying with more than 4 wives only belonged to prophet Muhammad(pbu) so you want to leave the religion because a right wich only has privileged to prophet Muhammad(pbu) but some people are misusing it for their evil intention & their misunderstanding .

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 I have never seen Janab e Zahra (عليه السلام).  mentioned in the same situation. At least Ayesha didn't go through the birthing process, but Janab e Zahra was married around the same age, had her first baby at around 12 or even less years old, conceived second baby only 6 months later, did the housework alone, and by the time she was barely 18 she was carrying her 5th child. 

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On 11/21/2021 at 12:54 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

No, she would still look an eleven year old child, there is a huge difference, physically speaking. That is, if she made it past infancy in that time period.

Puberty can be accelerated/decelerated depending on environmental factors. I overexaggerated when I said 20, but they definitely would have looked 16. We've all seen someone like that who just developed faster.

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On 11/21/2021 at 12:20 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

we are trying to hold the Prophet (sawas) by modern 21st century standards

Nope, the secularists have a valid point according to your faulty line of reasoning—being born in 7th century Arabia isn't a valid excusethey argue that Muhammad (s) received revelation and Allah should have conveyed to him how morally reprehensible "child marriage" is—their argument is clear and strong while your logic is lacking (with all due respect)—even if Muhammad (s) married Aisha when she was 19 or 30 he still allowed Muslim males to marry pubescent women—even if he (Muhammad) didn't participate in the practice himself he allowed it for his followers so the original "problem" still remains

 

On 11/21/2021 at 12:20 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

child marriage

Might want to rethink your definition of who's a child and who's considered an adult—we should allow Islam to be our guide and not white people from Antebellum America who arbitrarily pick numbers from thin air—Islamic jurisprudence is clear on the matter.

Edited by Eddie Mecca
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2 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Might want to rethink your definition of who's a child and who's considered an adult—we should allow Islam to be our guide and not white people from Antebellum America who arbitrarily pick numbers from thin air—Islamic jurisprudence is clear on the matter.

Not antebellum or modern America for that matter, in fact, a thirteen-fourteen year old can get married with permission from the parents and Court in the US. (states New Hampshire and Alabama respectively)  The girl may be baligh but she is nowhere near ready physically, mentally and emotionally ready for nikkah, biologically speaking. There is no reason why I should justify pedophilia with the deen. No hadith, law or cultural norm, whether it be Eastern or Western, can justify marrying a child to me. 

16 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

even if Muhammad (s) married Aisha when she was 19 or 30 he still allowed Muslim males to marry pubescent women—even if he (Muhammad) didn't participate in the practice himself he allowed it for his followers so the original "problem" still remains

The problem with secularists is that they single out child marriage as something exclusively wrong with Islam, when child marriage was allowed in Christianity and Judaism during, before and after Muhammad''s (sawas) time. Yet, here you are justifying it as if were a major part of our religion. Listen, I understand child marriage was a norm back then, I have no problem with that, nor do I have a problem with  Muhammad (sawas) allowing Muslim men to marry children, it was a sign of the times. However, it is not a norm now, I don't have to justify it in the modern times and I won't. It's clearly abuse, you would know this if you saw an anatomy chart of immature vs. mature female gentalia; The p**** would end up rectal problems or bowel  obstruction during penetration.

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19 hours ago, sargardan said:

 I have never seen Janab e Zahra (عليه السلام).  mentioned in the same situation. At least Ayesha didn't go through the birthing process, but Janab e Zahra was married around the same age, had her first baby at around 12 or even less years old, conceived second baby only 6 months later, did the housework alone, and by the time she was barely 18 she was carrying her 5th child. 

Salam her marriage & her status has been an exception  between all women of her time until now because at first she has been from infallibles which she has not mansturation  also her knowledge  at age of 9 has been equal to knowledge  & understanding  of mature women because  she has been educated  by source of divine knowledge  the prophet Muhammad (pbu) which only she & Amir al muminin Imam Ali(عليه السلام) have been equal in anything  for marriage  with each other but on the other hand enemies  of her & Amir al muminin Imam Ali(عليه السلام) have tried to show their status & marriage as insignificant  matt딨kmatter  while they have tried to portray Ayesha as greatest woman in Islam which due their propaganda  Sunnis think that she has died because of illness without having issue with any of three  caliphs also I have seen that new converts under influence  of wahabi propaganda  have no information  about her which also they have tought that Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) Imam Hasan have died in child age around 4 or 5 years old just because  of illness .

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On 11/20/2021 at 8:29 PM, BleedKnee said:

I'd leave the religion.

You'll face the same problems with the other major religions, such as Judaism, and Christianity, so if you were to leave Islam, you're going to open heavier implications on the moral level than the one you're stuck on. You also need to think things through logically, let's put age aside, the whole issue is abuse, trauma, and injustice. 

1. Did 'Aisha ever refuse to marry the Prophet?

2. Did she ever speak of the Prophet as someone who wasn't kind to her?

3. Did she ever once complain that the Prophet abused her?

4. Did she ever once regret her marriage? 

The answer is no to all, as for marriage you can't have a girl married without her approval, and the approval of her guardians, so your complaint is understandable, but is not a critic of Islam, rather it is a critic of non-Islamic cultural practices. 

'Aisha was outspoken, yet she only spoke good when it comes to the Prophet. Keep these variables in mind, and hold onto your beautiful religion, and the outstanding moral exemplar who is the Prophet, if anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt it is him, and if you reflect over the points I mentioned you will find that it is nothing but a slander used by the enemies of Islam who are in fact the enemies of humanity by being the enemies of Islam. 

You'll find that every child bride, or victim will answer yes to points 1-4, unlike 'Aisha whose answer is a demonstrable no to all that was mentioned. Do not hold on uncertainty in terms of age, stick to what is certain and it is the fact that she never once regretted her marriage, and praised al-Mustafa, who wouldn't? Only those who are blinded by their own hatred, or suffer from an inferiority complex towards the western gaze, which I am sure you're not such. 

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On 11/21/2021 at 9:34 AM, BleedKnee said:

And that's wrong. 

The Prophet is our marker between right, and wrong.

What moral epistemology are you using to ground what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'. 

Dostoevsky once wrote: If God did not exist, everything would be permitted ; and that, for existentialism, is the starting point. Everything is indeed permitted if God does not exist, and man is in consequence forlorn, for he cannot find anything to depend upon either within or outside himself. He discovers forthwith, that he is without excuse.

- Jean-Paul Sartre (Atheist)

Or, are you going to believe in God and be your own messenger? 

{But if the Truth had followed their inclinations, the heavens and the earth and whoever is in them would have been ruined. Rather, We have brought them their message, but they, from their message, are turning away.} [23:71]
 

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On 11/21/2021 at 9:09 PM, BleedKnee said:

Should also add here that I've witnessed situations of child marriage. Most girls that get sold by their fathers to 30-40 year old men die. They nearly all die, because their bodies are not made for sex. Not at 9, not at 10, not at 11 or even 12-13. You're literally sending a little girl to her death when you do that. 

I can't condone such a horrid practice to be honest. And if I ever become convinced that the Prophet (s) did that, I'd leave the religion and you should all join me. 

1. He did not marry any child. She was 19. Brothers have quoted link but you don't seem to have acknowledged it.

2. Refer back to my example of Prophet Musa given earlier. Death as punishment becomes applicable on someone only after they have committed a crime deserving death punishment. AFTER the crime. NOT before. Given that Hazrat Khizr 'broke' this law, it is murder and that is not only haraam but also Horrid, to kill an innocent child who has not yet committed a crime. But it was not the case. Hazrat Khizr was given "knowledge" about what will happen in future - which also gives him the privilege to avert injustice even before it is done. So your point on what is justified and what is not is limited to only what you know. When you believe in Allah and word of Allah, please know that he is All Knowing All Wise. If He permits something 'even' horrid (by your definition) - there will be something HE knows you don't.

On 11/21/2021 at 9:09 PM, BleedKnee said:

I'd leave the religion and you should all join me. 

3. Are you seeking validation from others for your own belief? If you believe in something that is right then it does not matter if anyone joins you or not. You march!

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On 11/25/2021 at 8:51 PM, Zaidism said:

The Prophet is our marker between right, and wrong.

What moral epistemology are you using to ground what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'. 

Dostoevsky once wrote: If God did not exist, everything would be permitted ; and that, for existentialism, is the starting point. Everything is indeed permitted if God does not exist, and man is in consequence forlorn, for he cannot find anything to depend upon either within or outside himself. He discovers forthwith, that he is without excuse.

- Jean-Paul Sartre (Atheist)

Or, are you going to believe in God and be your own messenger? 

{But if the Truth had followed their inclinations, the heavens and the earth and whoever is in them would have been ruined. Rather, We have brought them their message, but they, from their message, are turning away.} [23:71]
 

One good thing with the intellectual Atheist is that they ponder very deeply on the subject where there is no God, and they admit like Schopenhauer that a reality without God is nothing but despair. 

Every human being will taste the bitterness of the reality and all those negative attributes and they can only lie to themselves that everything is going to be better, but how so when you are going to repeat the same cycle of despair. 

The reality is not cold as long we believe in God, because God gives us hope and we will see the reality in truth trough the hopeful heart which is nothing but beauty.

God says:

قَالَ وَمَن يَقْنَطُ مِن رَّحْمَةِ رَبِّهِۦٓ إِلَّا ٱلضَّآلُّونَ

He (Prophet Abraham (عليه السلام)) said, “Who can lose hope in the mercy of his Lord except those who have lost the straight path?”

(Surah Al-Hijr, 15:56)

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