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In the Name of God بسم الله

Adam's Creation and Evolution

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SoRoUsH

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سلام

Recently, as I've been reading more narrations on Adam and Eve, their creations, and our creation as particles inside Adam, I'm starting to wonder whether Adam's creation story could in any way be compatible with the theory of evolution. 

Until recently, I've been an avid supporter of the evolution theory. And I think I still am. I want to be. However, I'm having a hard time seeing how Adam's story could be reconciled with the evolution theory. 

Adam's creation is very supernatural, surreal, out of this world (literally), and the evolution theory is very worldly, mundane, and profane. 

I just can't see how they can be compatible, unless one claims that almost everything in Adam's story should be seen metaphorically. And I don't think this view can be Islamically justified. 

I'm just writing what I'm thinking, and I'm not sure where I stand on this topic at this point. 

 

Any thoughts? 

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A salaamun aleikum,

This is a copy/paste from a telegram channel i was following by Dr Sekaleshfar. Not sure if its at all what you're looking for. It was a thread about Hajj and i copied all of the particular post instead of omitting parts that dont directly relate to your inquiry.

 

Discourse no.27
After the tawaf and IT's 2-unit emanation (and hence why there should be no significant delay between the two i.e.  cause and effect), it is time for executing the endeavour (SA'Y) between mounts Safa and Marwah. These two are situated in Mecca, in the vicinity of the Holy Mosque (masjid al-haraam). The distance between them is around 420m. 

This ritual is underlying a number of codes to spiritual wayfaring. These codes have a history behind them. Two such historical  episodes are as follows:

1. It is mentioned in traditions that Mounts Safa and Marwah were the locations where Prophet Adam and Lady Eve, respectively, had the immaterial vision of the forbidden tree and where they were deceived by Iblis. This apparition was a preliminary must, which Adam had to undergo before officially becoming a Prophet. Prophets would encounter such visions before starting their caliphate. Visions of Iblis is a rank in and of itself when it comes to the disciples of God. This event of the tree and Iblis was not a physical incident and Adam's slip was not a physical or shariah slip. In the immaterial realms, sin is essentially different when compared to the material realm. By way of example, stealing in the physical realm has one connotation whilst were one to steal in one's dream, it has a totally different connotation. 

Yes, Adam was alive physically and was on Mount Safa (which literally means the chosen one, and that is why we call Adam safiyyullah) but his ascension and immaterial vision was immaterial and he experienced it whilst sitting in Mount Safa.

The same applies to her holiness Eve, but she was on Marwa when immaterially ascending. Marwa literally emanates from mar'ah which means woman. 

These mounts therefore are holy precincts whereby one commemorates such holy figures and their visions and we too have such a potential, and this we need to take back home with us.

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7 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

I just can't see how they can be compatible

Neither can I when we also have narrations where Ahlul-Bayt reply to certain Christian claims regarding Jesus, where the Ahlulbayt compare the creation of Prophet Jesus ((عليه السلام)) to Adam ((عليه السلام)). We know Jesus didn't "evolve" from some creature; God created him directly in his mother's womb without a father, i.e. Adam ((عليه السلام)) had a similar direct creation as you know where he was brought forth from clay and had "life breathed into him". This to me precludes macroevolution involving humans specifically.

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14 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

This event of the tree and Iblis was not a physical incident and Adam's slip was not a physical or shariah slip.

 

14 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

Adam was alive physically and was on Mount Safa (which literally means the chosen one, and that is why we call Adam safiyyullah) but his ascension and immaterial vision was immaterial and he experienced it whilst sitting in Mount Safa.

How are these claims justified? They are inconsistent with our narrations and Qur'anic verses. 

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10 hours ago, dragonxx said:

Adam ((عليه السلام)) had a similar direct creation as you know where he was brought forth from clay and had "life breathed into him".

The issue is that we read that God created Adam with His own hands. Yet we know that God doesn't have hands. 

So, when we say God "directly" created Adam, we know to figure out what that means. 

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19 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

سلام

Recently, as I've been reading more narrations on Adam and Eve, their creations, and our creation as particles inside Adam, I'm starting to wonder whether Adam's creation story could in any way be compatible with the theory of evolution. 

Until recently, I've been an avid supporter of the evolution theory. And I think I still am. I want to be. However, I'm having a hard time seeing how Adam's story could be reconciled with the evolution theory. 

Adam's creation is very supernatural, surreal, out of this world (literally), and the evolution theory is very worldly, mundane, and profane. 

I just can't see how they can be compatible, unless one claims that almost everything in Adam's story should be seen metaphorically. And I don't think this view can be Islamically justified. 

I'm just writing what I'm thinking, and I'm not sure where I stand on this topic at this point. 

 

Any thoughts? 

In Christian circles, there is a community of Christian scientists who are part of what is referred to as the biologos foundation.

Deborah Haarsma, the current president of biologos made a presentation in which she discusses the science of Adam a few times throughout the video here:

https://youtu.be/kXGy6e0OoJo

Biologos also has a podcast in which they discuss Adam, the image of God, references of sin entering through Adam and topics of this nature.

More specifically, I think it's important to understand the historical nature of the old testament writings of Adam. When put into context, the perspective of the ancients who wrote the OT was much different than how we view the world today. And until that ancient perspective is understood, understanding Adam in a scientific sense will always be a struggle.

https://biologos.org/articles/the-firmament-of-genesis-1-is-solid-but-thats-not-the-point

I might also recommend Claus Westermanns Biblical commentary on Genesis 1 and 2, and OT commentary on Genesis by scholar Paul Seely of the Westminster Theological Seminary.

https://christadelphiansoriginsdiscussion.wordpress.com/2017/06/23/seeley-on-the-firmament/

 

These details, I would argue, are most in line with the intent and message of the original authorship of the OT and those who originally wrote about Adam. As opposed to people who might have written about Adam hundreds or thousands of years later.

The book of Genesis of the Old Testament of the Dead Sea scrolls was never meant to be a scientific textbook, and was never meant to be literally scientifically true. No more are there stars in the firmament where water passes through floodgates of or where birds fly across the face of it, or in which God's throne rest above like a sea of crystals or like ice.

When you learn the Old Testament, And you learn it's original intent and the thoughts and minds of the authors of the Old Testament, only then will the story of Adam make sense.

Edited by iCenozoic
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7 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

The issue is that we read that God created Adam with His own hands. Yet we know that God doesn't have hands. 

Yes indeed, we see the Hands of Allah working across the entire universe. Or is there anything else that can maintain the order we see before us?

7 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

So, when we say God "directly" created Adam, we know to figure out what that means. 

That's a tall task to figure out what that exactly means, because when I read the verse "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." it's clear to me Jesus' creation was an effect of Allah's Will; it was immediate with a simple "Be" and "it was". What this torab is, what was done with it, who knows. But Jesus clearly didn't come from an "macroevolutionary" process, he was instantly created in the womb of his mother. You can say he evolved from fetus to infant to adult i suppose.

Likewise, while Adam's creation probably isn't identical (I don't know), but I do know he was created through "Be" and "he was", i.e. not a macroevolutionary process. As for other organisms, who knows what Allah decreed.

Even going backwards in evolution, at some stage, one must accept that a living being could not have come into existence from nothing, including "non-living" things. Whatever creature or beings were created had to have been created through a "supernatural" power.

 

Edit: I should quote the verse immediately after the verse I quoted above in the Quran: "The Truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt."

Commentary that comes with it: 

"In this verse the people (the whole mankind) is addressed through the Holy Prophet. That which has been said in the preceding verse is the truth. A general principle has been laid down that Allah is the absolute truth. The material aspects of nature, known to us, are unable to explain every thing. The truth which proceeds from the absolute truth should be accepted as true, otherwise the unusual events in the working of creation will lead to confusion and doubt."

Edited by dragonxx
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I always thought that the body is created from the clay (dust) of the earth that represents an material creation (with natural needs) from earth trough the process of evolving by God will and guidance. The clay of paradise represents the spirit and intellect (the one that is perfected) aspect of human being who can become perfect beings (insaan al kaamil). And human beings are mix of both clays. 

It is possible that before Adam there could be bodies that represent the modern humans but they are not humans because they lack the clay of paradise and Adam was the first one who is mixed with both of these and only us survived so far, because we became the khalifa in the earth. 

So these beings that resembles us are not literally ancestors of any us and Adam. Yes they can resembles us with body and material needs but not with intellect and spirituality and the covenant that God made with us. 

Edited by Abu Nur
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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

I always thought that the body is created from the clay (dust) of the earth that represents an material creation (with natural needs) from earth trough the process of evolving by God will and guidance

Adam was created in paradise. He descended to Earth after living in paradise for a period of time. So, though the clay is from the surface of the Earth, Adam wasn't created on Earth. 

All humans until the Day of Qiyama were put inside Adam's back, and on one occasion, they all came out of his back, filled the sky like stars, and he asked God about their lights. 

Similarly, Eve's creation story does not fit well in our natural world. Eve was either created from Adam or was created separately, placed inside Adam, and ejected from his chest. None of this seems natural or worldly. 

There are more issues regarding Adam and Eve's story that can't work with a scientific naturalistic worldview.

2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

The clay of paradise represents

I am not familiar with the notion of "clay of paradise." Illiyin? How is it related to Adam's create? 

2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

So these beings that resembles us are not literally ancestors of any us and Adam. Yes they can resembles us with body and material needs but not with intellect and spirituality and the covenant that God made with us. 

This view is very dualistic. It separates the body and the intellect from each other. What makes Adam's creation story special is the amount of care God has given to create Adam's body. His physical body is God's special work. 

 

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3 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Adam was created in paradise. He descended to Earth after living in paradise for a period of time.

Salam,

What is the evidence with us that confirms Adam (عليه السلام) was created in paradise? 

وَقُلْنَا يَا آدَمُ اسْكُنْ أَنْتَ وَزَوْجُكَ الْجَنَّةَ وَكُلَا مِنْهَا رَغَدًا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمَا وَلَا تَقْرَبَا هَٰذِهِ الشَّجَرَةَ فَتَكُونَا مِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ {35}

[Shakir 2:35] And We said: O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden and eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish and do not approach this tree, for then you will be of the unjust.

اسْكُنْ not necessarily implying the creation of Adam (عليه السلام) in Paradise. 

On 11/16/2021 at 1:11 AM, SoRoUsH said:

I'm starting to wonder whether Adam's creation story could in any way be compatible with the theory of evolution. 

There is no problem in the theory of evolution if it remain to its limits. Theory of evolution just explains diversity in living things. So all life descended from a common ancestor does not collide with the story of Adam (عليه السلام) who was too created and evolved to a stage where God breathed into him His spirit. 

Problem actually starts when people begins to speculate on the basis of theory of evolution, the origin of life. Biogenesis or Abiogenesis is not within the domain of theory of evolution. 

Adams creation was started with dust, which evolved to clay and then that clay further evolved into a state, as mentioned in Quran as salsaalin:

صَلْصَالٍ مِّنْ حَمَإٍ مَّسْنُونٍ

15:28

So we see the process of evolution (i.e., the process of bringing change) in the story of creation of Adam (عليه السلام) as mentioned in Quran. 

نَحْنُ خَلَقْنَاهُمْ وَشَدَدْنَا أَسْرَهُمْ ۖ وَإِذَا شِئْنَا بَدَّلْنَا أَمْثَالَهُمْ تَبْدِيلًا {28}

[Shakir 76:28] We created them and made firm their make, and when We please We will bring in their place the likes of them by a change.

@dragonxx, Salam Brother!!

What I have learned is that there exist different worlds, it seems to me that everything is not done by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by using the word كن whose effect is immediate/prompt. 

Like Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has willed all the physical system (this universe) to originate, so it originated by means of a process and for that very reason the creation of heaven & earth took six days or stages. 

Similar is the story of creation of Adam (عليه السلام), his statue was created through a process which took time and which goes through stages & experienced changes and in the end Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) breathed into him His spirit. 

The two worlds which I have discovered are the عالم القدر and عالم الامر 

In the عالم القدر every thing goes through a process, while in عالم الامر the effects are immediate. 

The verses which gives me a hint of these two عالمين are the verses of Chapter Al-Qamar:

إِنَّا كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقْنَاهُ بِقَدَرٍ {49}

[Shakir 54:49] Surely We have created everything according to a measure.

وَمَا أَمْرُنَا إِلَّا وَاحِدَةٌ كَلَمْحٍ بِالْبَصَرِ {50}

[Shakir 54:50] And Our command is but one, as the twinkling of an eye.

Divine intervention in the world of creation or عالم القدر is also done through عالم الامر and we have for that very reason, well aware of صاحبان الامر, the ones who are the bearers of divine command and they showed miracles to us. 

This is all what appears before me after reading the verses of Quran, I have no clue whether any of our Imams have explained these verses in this way or not. So please don't take it as my effort of doing tafseer, I am just sharing how my mind try to explain the verses to me.

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7 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Adam was created in paradise. He descended to Earth after living in paradise for a period of time. So, though the clay is from the surface of the Earth, Adam wasn't created on Earth. 

All humans until the Day of Qiyama were put inside Adam's back, and on one occasion, they all came out of his back, filled the sky like stars, and he asked God about their lights. 

Similarly, Eve's creation story does not fit well in our natural world. Eve was either created from Adam or was created separately, placed inside Adam, and ejected from his chest. None of this seems natural or worldly. 

There are more issues regarding Adam and Eve's story that can't work with a scientific naturalistic worldview.

I am not familiar with the notion of "clay of paradise." Illiyin? How is it related to Adam's create? 

This view is very dualistic. It separates the body and the intellect from each other. What makes Adam's creation story special is the amount of care God has given to create Adam's body. His physical body is God's special work. 

 

I only referred the mixture of two dust but did not say that Adam was created exactly in Earth, but rather his body resemble the elements and similarities that is found in earth. 

About the mixture, i was reading once a narration about it, i need to check it out. 

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9 hours ago, Cool said:

@dragonxx, Salam Brother!!

What I have learned is that there exist different worlds, it seems to me that everything is not done by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by using the word كن whose effect is immediate/prompt. 

Like Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has willed all the physical system (this universe) to originate, so it originated by means of a process and for that very reason the creation of heaven & earth took six days or stages. 

Similar is the story of creation of Adam (عليه السلام), his statue was created through a process which took time and which goes through stages & experienced changes and in the end Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) breathed into him His spirit. 

Salam bro!

I certainly agree with all this! However the reason I feel there is some level of "immediate" effect to "life" is not because of the word kun(كن), rather its by virtue of direct comparison between Adam and Jesus' creations and therefore additional context to draw from. Jesus ((عليه السلام)) who seems to have gone through the process of being an embryo to fetus and having life "immediately" instilled in him at some point during this process; regardless of the stages he went through, he was not produced from another organism/creature, and that to me means neither did Adam ((عليه السلام)), i.e. he may have gone through "stages" of creation but these stages exclude another species being a part of this process. What do you think?

9 hours ago, Cool said:

The two worlds which I have discovered are the عالم القدر and عالم الامر 

In the عالم القدر every thing goes through a process, while in عالم الامر the effects are immediate. 

The verses which gives me a hint of these two عالمين are the verses of Chapter Al-Qamar:

إِنَّا كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقْنَاهُ بِقَدَرٍ {49}

[Shakir 54:49] Surely We have created everything according to a measure.

وَمَا أَمْرُنَا إِلَّا وَاحِدَةٌ كَلَمْحٍ بِالْبَصَرِ {50}

[Shakir 54:50] And Our command is but one, as the twinkling of an eye.

Divine intervention in the world of creation or عالم القدر is also done through عالم الامر and we have for that very reason, well aware of صاحبان الامر, the ones who are the bearers of divine command and they showed miracles to us. 

This is all what appears before me after reading the verses of Quran, I have no clue whether any of our Imams have explained these verses in this way or not. So please don't take it as my effort of doing tafseer, I am just sharing how my mind try to explain the verses to me.

This is enlightening, thanks for letting me leech off your reflections =P. Relating it to the creations of Adam and Jesus, perhaps the two عالمين of creation can be used separately or together (consecutively) to initiate a process depending, such as in Jesus عالم الامر and Adam عالم القدر, alternatively one could look it as Jesus' initial creation was as a result of عالم الامر, and the processes of development/stages thereafter are a reflection of عالم القدر. The latter explanation makes more sense to me.

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13 hours ago, Cool said:

What is the evidence with us that confirms Adam (عليه السلام) was created in paradise? 

سلام

Here's a Saheeh narration: (source: علل الشرایع ج ۲، ص ۴۲۲)

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ اَلْحَسَنِ بْنِ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ اَلْوَلِيدِ رَضِيَ اَللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ اَلْحَسَنِ اَلصَّفَّارُ عَنِ اَلْعَبَّاسِ بْنِ مَعْرُوفٍ عَنْ صَفْوَانَ بْنِ يَحْيَى قَالَ: سُئِلَ اَلْحَسَنُ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ عَنِ اَلْحَرَمِ وَ أَعْلاَمِهِ فَقَالَ إِنَّ آدَمَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ لَمَّا هَبَطَ مِنَ اَلْجَنَّةِ هَبَطَ عَلَى أَبِي قُبَيْسٍ وَ اَلنَّاسُ يَقُولُونَ بِالْهِنْدِ فَشَكَا إِلَى رَبِّهِ اَلْوَحْشَةَ وَ أَنَّهُ لاَ يَسْمَعُ مَا كَانَ يَسْمَعُ فِي اَلْجَنَّةِ فَأَهْبَطَ اَللَّهُ تَعَالَى عَلَيْهِ يَاقُوتَةً حَمْرَاءَ فَوُضِعَتْ فِي مَوْضِعِ اَلْبَيْتِ فَكَانَ يَطُوفُ بِهَا آدَمُ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ وَ كَانَ يَبْلُغُ ضَوْؤُهَا اَلْأَعْلاَمَ فَعُلِّمَتِ اَلْأَعْلاَمُ عَلَى ضَوْئِهَا فَجَعَلَهُ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ حَرَماً .

 

It's indubitable, according to this narration, that Adam was sent down to an unknown place, where he was scared, and where he couldn't hear what he could hear in paradise. 

The distance between Abu Qubays and Hind is far enough to indicate that he wasn't created on any one specific locality on Earth. 

Similarly, not being able to hear what he could hear in paradise, and not knowing where to go or what to do about it, indicates that he was sent down to an unfamiliar place, for the first time.

Adam wasn't created on our Earth. He was sent to it. 

 

Here's another Saheeh narration: (Source: الکافي ج ۴، ص ۱۹۵)

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي نَصْرٍ قَالَ: سَأَلْتُ أَبَا اَلْحَسَنِ اَلرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ عَنِ اَلْحَرَمِ وَ أَعْلاَمِهِ كَيْفَ صَارَ بَعْضُهَا أَقْرَبَ مِنْ بَعْضٍ وَ بَعْضُهَا أَبْعَدَ مِنْ بَعْضٍ فَقَالَ إِنَّ اَللَّهَ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ لَمَّا أَهْبَطَ آدَمَ مِنَ اَلْجَنَّةِ هَبَطَ عَلَى أَبِي قُبَيْسٍ فَشَكَا إِلَى رَبِّهِ اَلْوَحْشَةَ وَ أَنَّهُ لاَ يَسْمَعُ مَا كَانَ يَسْمَعُهُ فِي اَلْجَنَّةِ فَأَهْبَطَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ عَلَيْهِ يَاقُوتَةً حَمْرَاءَ فَوَضَعَهَا فِي مَوْضِعِ اَلْبَيْتِ فَكَانَ يَطُوفُ بِهَا آدَمُ فَكَانَ ضَوْؤُهَا يَبْلُغُ مَوْضِعَ اَلْأَعْلاَمِ فَيُعَلَّمُ اَلْأَعْلاَمُ عَلَى ضَوْئِهَا وَ جَعَلَهُ اَللَّهُ حَرَماً

 

Adam was not created on our Earth. He was sent to it. 

Edited by SoRoUsH
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On 11/16/2021 at 6:19 AM, SoRoUsH said:

 

How are these claims justified? They are inconsistent with our narrations and Qur'anic verses. 

As salaamun aleikum,

Your question obviously has merit so i messaged Dr Sekaleshfar. He said:

Salaamun alaykum,
inshallah all is well
the first point I took from Allamah Tabatahai’s al-Mizan commentary of the Quran. The second was based on a lecture given by ayatullah Jawadi Amoli where he was giving different perspectives of the story. 
 

I just wanted to provide a reference as to where Dr Sekaleshfar got his info from. Not sure if this makes a difference to you or is helpful at all.

 

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Here's a long Mawththaq narration. I'll highlight only the relevant parts.

Source: (علل الشرایع ج ۲، ص ۴۲۵)

In terms of its ranking, I must add,  مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى is given thiqa by Najjashi, but some others have weakened him. That being said, the content of the narration is consistent with other narrations on this topic. This narration just provides more details. 

When you read it, you'll see that it's quite difficult, if not impossible, to imagine a natural evolution process for Adam. 

 

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ اَلْحَسَنِ بْنِ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ اَلْوَلِيدِ رَضِيَ اَللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ اَلْحَسَنِ اَلصَّفَّارُ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى بْنِ عُبَيْدٍ عَنْ زِيَادٍ اَلْقَنْدِيِّ عَنْ عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ قَالَ: بَيْنَا نَحْنُ فِي اَلطَّوَافِ إِذْ مَرَّ رَجُلٌ مِنْ آلِ عُمَرَ فَأَخَذَ بِيَدِهِ رَجُلٌ فَاسْتَلَمَ اَلْحَجَرَ فَانْتَهَرَهُ وَ أَغْلَظَ لَهُ وَ قَالَ لَهُ بَطَلَ حَجُّكَ إِنَّ اَلَّذِي تَسْتَلِمُهُ حَجَرٌ لاَ يَنْفَعُ وَ لاَ يَضُرُّ فَقُلْتُ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ جُعِلْتُ فِدَاكَ أَ مَا سَمِعْتَ قَوْلَ اَلْعُمَرِيِّ لِهَذَا اَلَّذِي اِسْتَلَمَ اَلْحَجَرَ فَأَصَابَهُ مَا أَصَابَهُ فَقَالَ وَ مَا اَلَّذِي قَالَ قُلْتُ قَالَ لَهُ يَا عَبْدَ اَللَّهِ بَطَلَ حَجُّكَ ثُمَّ إِنَّمَا هُوَ حَجَرٌ لاَ يَضُرُّ وَ لاَ يَنْفَعُ فَقَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ كَذَبَ ثُمَّ كَذَبَ ثُمَّ كَذَبَ إِنَّ لِلْحَجَرِ لِسَاناً ذَلْقاً يَوْمَ اَلْقِيَامَةِ يَشْهَدُ لِمَنْ وَافَاهُ بِالْمُوَافَاةِ ثُمَّ قَالَ إِنَّ اَللَّهَ تَبَارَكَ وَ تَعَالَى لَمَّا خَلَقَ اَلسَّمَاوَاتِ وَ اَلْأَرْضَ خَلَقَ بَحْرَيْنِ بَحْراً عَذْباً وَ بَحْراً أُجَاجاً فَخَلَقَ تُرْبَةَ آدَمَ مِنَ اَلْبَحْرِ اَلْعَذْبِ وَ شَنَّ عَلَيْهَا مِنَ اَلْبَحْرِ اَلْأُجَاجِ ثُمَّ جَبَّلَ آدَمَ فَعَرَكَ عَرْكَ اَلْأَدِيمِ فَتَرَكَهُ مَا شَاءَ اَللَّهُ فَلَمَّا أَرَادَ أَنْ يَنْفُخَ فِيهِ اَلرُّوحَ أَقَامَهُ شَبَحاً فَقَبَضَ قَبْضَةً مِنْ كَتِفِهِ اَلْأَيْمَنِ فَخَرَجُوا كَالذَّرِّ فَقَالَ هَؤُلاَءِ إِلَى اَلْجَنَّةِ وَ قَبَضَ قَبْضَةً مِنْ كَتِفِهِ اَلْأَيْسَرِ وَ قَالَ هَؤُلاَءِ إِلَى اَلنَّارِ فَأَنْطَقَ اَللَّهُ تَعَالَى أَصْحَابَ اَلْيَمِينِ وَ أَصْحَابَ اَلْيَسَارِ فَقَالَ أَهْلُ اَلْيَسَارِ يَا رَبِّ لِمَ خَلَقْتَ لَنَا اَلنَّارَ وَ لَمْ تُبَيِّنْ لَنَا وَ لَمْ تَبْعَثْ إِلَيْنَا رَسُولاً فَقَالَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ لَهُمْ ذَلِكَ لِعِلْمِي بِمَا أَنْتُمْ صَائِرُونَ إِلَيْهِ وَ إِنِّي سَأُبْلِيكُمْ فَأَمَرَ اَللَّهُ تَعَالَى اَلنَّارَ فَأُسْعِرَتْ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُمْ تَقَحَّمُوا جَمِيعاً فِي اَلنَّارِ فَإِنِّي أَجْعَلُهَا عَلَيْكُمْ بَرْداً وَ سَلاَماً فَقَالُوا يَا رَبِّ إِنَّمَا سَأَلْنَاكَ لِأَيِّ شَيْءٍ جَعَلْتَهَا لَنَا هَرَباً مِنْهَا وَ لَوْ أَمَرْتَ أَصْحَابَ اَلْيَمِينِ مَا دَخَلُوا فَأَمَرَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ اَلنَّارَ فَأُسْعِرَتْ ثُمَّ قَالَ لِأَصْحَابِ اَلْيَمِينِ تَقَحَّمُوا جَمِيعاً فِي اَلنَّارِ فَتَقَحَّمُوا جَمِيعاً فَكَانَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ بَرْداً وَ سَلاَماً فَقَالَ لَهُمْ جَمِيعاً أَ لَسْتُ بِرَبِّكُمْ قَالَ أَصْحَابُ اَلْيَمِينِ بَلىٰ طَوْعاً وَ قَالَ أَصْحَابُ اَلشِّمَالِ بَلىٰ كَرْهاً فَأَخَذَ مِنْهُمْ جَمِيعاً مِيثَاقَهُمْ وَ أَشْهَدَهُمْ عَلىٰ أَنْفُسِهِمْ قَالَ وَ كَانَ اَلْحَجَرُ فِي اَلْجَنَّةِ فَأَخْرَجَهُ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ فَالْتَقَمَ اَلْمِيثَاقَ مِنَ اَلْخَلْقِ كُلِّهِمْ فَذَلِكَ قَوْلُهُ تَعَالَى وَ لَهُ أَسْلَمَ مَنْ فِي اَلسَّمٰاوٰاتِ وَ اَلْأَرْضِ طَوْعاً وَ كَرْهاً وَ إِلَيْهِ يُرْجَعُونَ فَلَمَّا أَسْكَنَ اَللَّهُ تَعَالَى آدَمَ اَلْجَنَّةَ وَ عَصَى أَهْبَطَ اَللَّهُ تَعَالَى اَلْحَجَرَ فَجَعَلَهُ فِي رُكْنِ بَيْتِهِ وَ أَهْبَطَ آدَمَ عَلَى اَلصَّفَا فَمَكَثَ مَا شَاءَ اَللَّهُ ثُمَّ رَآهُ فِي اَلْبَيْتِ فَعَرَفَهُ وَ عَرَفَ مِيثَاقَهُ وَ ذَكَرَهُ فَجَاءَ إِلَيْهِ مُسْرِعاً فَأَكَبَّ عَلَيْهِ وَ بَكَى عَلَيْهِ أَرْبَعِينَ صَبَاحاً تَائِباً مِنْ خَطِيئَتِهِ وَ نَادِماً عَلَى نَقْضِهِ مِيثَاقَهُ قَالَ فَمِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ أُمِرْتُمْ أَنْ تَقُولُوا إِذَا اِسْتَلَمْتُمُ اَلْحَجَرَ أَمَانَتِي أَدَّيْتُهَا وَ مِيثَاقِي تَعَاهَدْتُهُ لِتَشْهَدَ لِي بِالْمُوَافَاةِ يَوْمَ اَلْقِيَامَةِ .

 

First, before Allah blew in Adam, He raised him, without life, and took parts/particles from his right and left shoulders, and tested them. Those particles would turn out to be humans. 

In other words, Adam was created in his shape in the World of Particles. The creation of Adam, the taking of the clay, mixing sweet and foul water, taking covenant from the particles, all of this happened in the World of Particles. 

In a nutshell, Adam wasn't born/created in this physical world. 

Second, Adam knew the (black) stone, before they were both sent to Earth. Seeing the stone helped Adam orientate himself on Earth, because Adam remembered the stone from the previous plane of existence. Upon seeing the stone on Earth, Adam cried for forty days and asked for forgiveness. 

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Here's another Saheeh narration with clear clues that Adam and Eve were not created on Earth. 

Source: علل الشرایع ج ۲، ص ۴۹۲

أَبِي رَحِمَهُ اَللَّهُ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ اَلرَّازِيُّ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ اَلْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي نَصْرٍ عَنْ أَبِي اَلْحَسَنِ اَلرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ قَالَ: قُلْتُ كَيْفَ كَانَ أَوَّلُ اَلطِّيبِ قَالَ فَقَالَ لِي مَا يَقُولُ مَنْ قِبَلَكُمْ فِيهِ قُلْتُ يَقُولُونَ إِنَّ آدَمَ لَمَّا هَبَطَ إِلَى أَرْضِ اَلْهِنْدِ فَبَكَى عَلَى اَلْجَنَّةِ سَالَتْ دُمُوعُهُ فَصَارَتْ عُرُوقاً فِي اَلْأَرْضِ فَصَارَتْ طِيباً فَقَالَ لَيْسَ كَمَا يَقُولُونَ وَ لَكِنْ حَوَّاءُ كَانَتْ تُغَلِّفُ قُرُونَهَا مِنْ أَطْرَافِ شَجَرِ اَلْجَنَّةِ فَلَمَّا هَبَطَتْ إِلَى اَلْأَرْضِ وَ بُلِيَتْ بِالْمَعْصِيَةِ رَأَتِ اَلْحَيْضَ فَأُمِرَتْ بِالْغُسْلِ فَنَفَضَتْ قُرُونَهَا فَبَعَثَ اَللَّهُ تَعَالَى رِيحاً طَارَتْ بِهِ وَ حَفِظَتْهُ فَذَرَتْهُ حَيْثُ شَاءَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ فَمِنْ ذَلِكَ اَلطِّيبُ .

 

This time, the clue is Eve. 

The reason behind the existence of wonderful scents in this world is Eve, who brought these scents with her from paradise. This narration wouldn't make any sense, if Eve was evolved on Earth.

Also, when they landed on Earth, Eve noticed her menstruation, and subsequently she was ordered to wash herself. 

There are narrations that claim Eve's menstruation blood was the very first blood that hit our Earth. (I'm not sure about the authenticity of these narrations.) 

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12 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Here's another Saheeh narration with clear clues that Adam and Eve were not created on Earth. 

Source: علل الشرایع ج ۲، ص ۴۹۲

أَبِي رَحِمَهُ اَللَّهُ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ اَلرَّازِيُّ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ اَلْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي نَصْرٍ عَنْ أَبِي اَلْحَسَنِ اَلرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ قَالَ: قُلْتُ كَيْفَ كَانَ أَوَّلُ اَلطِّيبِ قَالَ فَقَالَ لِي مَا يَقُولُ مَنْ قِبَلَكُمْ فِيهِ قُلْتُ يَقُولُونَ إِنَّ آدَمَ لَمَّا هَبَطَ إِلَى أَرْضِ اَلْهِنْدِ فَبَكَى عَلَى اَلْجَنَّةِ سَالَتْ دُمُوعُهُ فَصَارَتْ عُرُوقاً فِي اَلْأَرْضِ فَصَارَتْ طِيباً فَقَالَ لَيْسَ كَمَا يَقُولُونَ وَ لَكِنْ حَوَّاءُ كَانَتْ تُغَلِّفُ قُرُونَهَا مِنْ أَطْرَافِ شَجَرِ اَلْجَنَّةِ فَلَمَّا هَبَطَتْ إِلَى اَلْأَرْضِ وَ بُلِيَتْ بِالْمَعْصِيَةِ رَأَتِ اَلْحَيْضَ فَأُمِرَتْ بِالْغُسْلِ فَنَفَضَتْ قُرُونَهَا فَبَعَثَ اَللَّهُ تَعَالَى رِيحاً طَارَتْ بِهِ وَ حَفِظَتْهُ فَذَرَتْهُ حَيْثُ شَاءَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ فَمِنْ ذَلِكَ اَلطِّيبُ .

 

This time, the clue is Eve. 

The reason behind the existence of wonderful scents in this world is Eve, who brought these scents with her from paradise. This narration wouldn't make any sense, if Eve was evolved on Earth.

Also, when they landed on Earth, Eve noticed her menstruation, and subsequently she was ordered to wash herself. 

There are narrations that claim Eve's menstruation blood was the very first blood that hit our Earth. (I'm not sure about the authenticity of these narrations.) 

I'd be curious to hear what you think of my response regarding old testament commentary.

Do Muslims not defer to the old testament when interpreting scripture on Adam? The Old Testament was written over 3,000 years ago, so I would think that it would have to be the most authentic source of information on Adam, as opposed to anything written by Christian or Muslim scholars hundreds and thousands of years later.

We have the dead scrolls dating back to something like 200 BC, so why prioritize Hadith written hundreds or a thousand years later? Over the original writings themselves?

 

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6 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

Do Muslims not defer to the old testament when interpreting scripture on Adam?

I don't speak for all Muslims or for any other Muslim, but I do not defer to OT or NT to understand Islamic texts. 

Consequently, I do not have a response to your post, other than OT authors and scholars can think and claim whatever they'd like. 

Sorry about my short and unsatisfying reply.

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, SoRoUsH said:

I don't speak for all Muslims or for any other Muslim, but I do not defer to OT or NT to understand Islamic texts. 

Consequently, I do not have a response to your post, other than OT authors and scholars can think and claim whatever they'd like. 

Sorry about my short and unsatisfying reply.

 

 

 

Well the question is what came first, Hebrew texts on Adam, or Islamic text on Adam? The Old Testament was written many hundreds of years earlier than any Islamic text on Adam. From a historical stance, this is just the nature of the situation.

There's a big difference between trusting a Christian text, and trusting in original Torah authorship in pre-Christian times. Really these are writings from pre-Torah times.

 

But That's ok.

I asked myself the same question. Because of course figures like Paul or of course scholars throughout history have also interpreted the New Testament with respect to Adam and Creation.

But the thing that's interesting is that, figures throughout history, and biblical scholars up until today oftentimes misinterpret the Old Testament because they weren't the authors of the Old Testament.

For example some Protestant biblical scholars would disagree with some Catholic biblical scholars over The topic of Genesis and the topic of Adam, and they dispute the intent of the original authors of Genesis of the OT. Because the documentation which includes Adam was written long before Christianity and Islam even technically existed. (And I know that all Christians and Muslims would say that their religion has existed forever, but you know what I mean). 

Because in a sense, even though the old testament is a part of the Bible in modern times, in reality the Old Testament has its roots long before Christianity and Islam. 

So I would recommend at least considering asking the question of what people wrote and believed about Adam and about creation before both Christianity and Islam even really institutionally existed. Because any Christian can go to a Protestant and Catholic scholar and can get a more modern interpretation, but it's just not quite the same as getting the opinion of the original author.

And I could go find Christian scholars who wrote about Adam dating back to even Paul. Aquinas is a popular one for example. But nothing beats reading the original text itself. Or as close as we can possibly get to it.

Imo. And being able to read these historic texts, In my opinion have completely transformed my view of Genesis along with many biblical scholars and Christians today. And I don't see why Muslims would necessarily be different but I guess that's up to their scholarship to choose to do. Or up to the individual if they feel that they can interpret historical texts on their own.

 

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3 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

Well the question is what came first, Hebrew texts on Adam, or Islamic text on Adam? The Old Testament was written many hundreds of years earlier than any Islamic text on Adam. From a historical stance, this is just the nature of the situation.

There's a big difference between trusting a Christian text, and trusting in original Torah authorship in pre-Christian times. Really these are writings from pre-Torah times.

 

But That's ok.

I asked myself the same question. Because of course figures like Paul or of course scholars throughout history have also interpreted the New Testament with respect to Adam and Creation.

But the thing that's interesting is that, figures throughout history, and biblical scholars up until today oftentimes misinterpret the Old Testament because they weren't the authors of the Old Testament.

For example some Protestant biblical scholars would disagree with some Catholic biblical scholars over The topic of Genesis and the topic of Adam, and they dispute the intent of the original authors of Genesis of the OT. Because the documentation which includes Adam was written long before Christianity and Islam even technically existed. (And I know that all Christians and Muslims would say that their religion has existed forever, but you know what I mean). 

Because in a sense, even though the old testament is a part of the Bible in modern times, in reality the Old Testament has its roots long before Christianity and Islam. 

So I would recommend at least considering asking the question of what people wrote and believed about Adam and about creation before both Christianity and Islam even really institutionally existed. Because any Christian can go to a Protestant and Catholic scholar and can get a more modern interpretation, but it's just not quite the same as getting the opinion of the original author.

And I could go find Christian scholars who wrote about Adam dating back to even Paul. Aquinas is a popular one for example. But nothing beats reading the original text itself. Or as close as we can possibly get to it.

Imo. And being able to read these historic texts, In my opinion have completely transformed my view of Genesis along with many biblical scholars and Christians today. And I don't see why Muslims would necessarily be different but I guess that's up to their scholarship to choose to do. Or up to the individual if they feel that they can interpret historical texts on their own.

 

I'll give an example of what I'm trying to express here.

 

When we think of Adam, or more specifically the name "Adam", we think of a name much like Bob or Sarah or George. "Hi my name is Adam".

It's only when we look at the original Hebrew of the OT that we see the following:

https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/2-7.htm

And formed Yahweh God Man [from] the dust of the ground.

But notice the Hebrew word for man. "Adam", in Hebrew it is HaAdam or "the man".

Indeed "Adam" actually isn't a name at all, it's a descriptive statement of "a man". God formed a man from dust of the ground. Genesis 2:7. Thousands of years later we somehow decided to just call that man "Adam" as if it's a name.

But only when reading the original old testament/Torah Hebrew can we make sense of this. And the same applies with dozens of instances throughout the OT that only make sense when read in historic context through the original language in which it was written.

 

Imagine having a baby and naming the baby "the baby". 

 

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1) Adam's creation is described as a process in the quran, not an instanenous creation. God could just say "be" and create Adam, but instead it had to undergo a certain process (evolution).

2) One part of us as human beings is not evolved per se, but injected from God: ruh. The combination of the wordly body (evolved according to divine process) and the spiritual ruh (God's breath) into one single being, is what makes us HUMAN. Not an animal (only evolved) and not an angel (only immaterial energy) either, but a mix.

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On 11/17/2021 at 9:17 PM, dragonxx said:

 i.e. he may have gone through "stages" of creation but these stages exclude another species being a part of this process. What do you think?

Interestingly, for Jesus (عليه السلام), he got a mother, Adam (عليه السلام) had no mother no father. Jesus (عليه السلام) took birth Adam (عليه السلام) not. Now lets see the verse you are looking at:

إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَى عِندَ اللّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُون

3:59

As you can see, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is mentioning the creation here prior to saying "kun":

"created him with dust then said to it Kun Fa Yakun"

The similarity in both the cases is that, creation of both initiated by divine will, Adam (عليه السلام) was created directly by God, His two hands created the Adam (عليه السلام). In case of Jesus, some sort of asexual reproduction started on direct divine command immediate after angel gave Marry (عليه السلام) glad tiding of Jesus (عليه السلام)

Then both gone through stages of creation and reached to their point of maturity where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) breathed into them His spirit by means of "Kun". 

Have you noticed He never said "kun" in the beginning while initiating the creation :)

Why is that? I am clueless here. 

Jesus had her mothers ovum which somehow fertilized (perhaps by asexual reproduction) on the direct divine command. Adam (عليه السلام) had no ovum, no mothers womb, no birth etc. His creation too goes through عالم القدر and Jesus (عليه السلام) too. 

Please cite 77:20-23 to further ponder over the عالم القدر where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said:

فَقَدَرْنَا فَنِعْمَ الْقَادِرُونَ

This is mentioning a process (perhaps evolution) which works  under the influence of laws of nature as well as divine guidance. But here everything takes time & goes through stages. 

On 11/17/2021 at 9:17 PM, dragonxx said:

Relating it to the creations of Adam and Jesus, perhaps the two عالمين of creation can be used separately or together (consecutively) to initiate a process depending, such as in Jesus عالم الامر and Adam عالم القدر, alternatively one could look it as Jesus' initial creation was as a result of عالم الامر, and the processes of development/stages thereafter are a reflection of عالم القدر. The latter explanation makes more sense to me.

I need some time to look at it that way, will get back to you soon Insha Allah.

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On 11/18/2021 at 12:44 AM, SoRoUsH said:

Adam wasn't created on our Earth. He was sent to it.

:ws:

There is no question about it. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) surely sent Adam (عليه السلام) on Earth, Adam (عليه السلام) was not created on Earth. 

Was he created in paradise? That was the question. Everything up is not the paradise. Just like everything down is not the Earth.

What is the evidence with us that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has created Adam (عليه السلام) in paradise? So was it the paradise where angels argued? 

مَا كَانَ لِي مِنْ عِلْمٍ بِالْمَلَإِ الْأَعْلَى إِذْ يَخْتَصِمُونَ

38:69

 

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On 11/17/2021 at 3:09 AM, Abu Nur said:

The clay of paradise represents the spirit and intellect (the one that is perfected) aspect of human being who can become perfect beings (insaan al kaamil). And human beings are mix of both clays. 

It is possible that before Adam there could be bodies that represent the modern humans but they are not humans because they lack the clay of paradise and Adam was the first one who is mixed with both of these and only us survived so far, because we became the khalifa in the earth. 

 

On 11/17/2021 at 6:12 AM, SoRoUsH said:

Adam was created in paradise. He descended to Earth after living in paradise for a period of time. So, though the clay is from the surface of the Earth, Adam wasn't created on Earth. 

Salam both thse quoted parts are against  word of Amir al Muminin  Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in Najul Balagha about creation  of Adam which he has stated that Adam has been created from mixture of different soils of Earth without mentioning taking any soil from Paradise in similar fashion creation  of Adam has happened  out of Paradise on Earth 

 

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Allah collected from hard, soft, sweet and sour earth, clay which He dripped in water till it got pure, and kneaded it with moisture till it became gluey. From it He carved an image with curves, joints, limbs and segments. He solidified it till it dried up for a fixed time and a known duration. Then He blew into it out of His Spirit whereupon it took the pattern of a human being with mind that governs him, intelligence which he makes use of, limbs that serve him, organs that change his position, sagacity that differentiates between truth and untruth, tastes and smells, colours and species. He is a mixture of clays of different colours, cohesive materials, divergent contradictories and differing properties like heat, cold, softness and hardness, grief and joy.

 

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Thereafter, Allah inhabited Adam (p.b.u.h.) in a house where He made his life pleasant and his stay safe, and He cautioned him of Iblis and his enmity. Then his enemy (Iblis) envied his abiding in Paradise and his contacts with the virtuous. So he changed his conviction into wavering and determination into weakness. He thus converted his happiness into fear and his prestige into shame. Then Allah offered to Adam (p.b.u.h.) the chance to repent, taught him words of His Mercy, promised him return to His Paradise and sent him down to the place of trial and procreation of progeny.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-1-praise-due-allah-whose-worth-cannot-be-described#description-creation-adam

9 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Where in the Qur'an?

 

The origin of human creation in the Qur'an
Verses related to the creation of man express a wide variety of topics. It is stated in some verses that Allah has created man while he was nothing before:

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 He said, ‘So shall it be. Your Lord has said, ‘‘It is simple for Me.’’ Certainly I created you before when you were nothing.’ (9)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/19:9

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Has there been a period of time for man when he was not anything worthy of mention? (1)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/76:1

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(3)

The meaning of the first two verses is that Allah created man while before he was nothing and was a "corpse" and the meaning of the last verse is that there was no such thing as "man".

The illusion may arise that, therefore, every human being is created from nothingness without precedent and suddenly; But it is clear that this is not what the verses mean. The best evidence of this is that Allah mentions in many other verses that we created 

 

Undoubtedly, this means that matter already existed and provided the basis for the creation of man, but something had to be added to it in order for man to come into being, and that thing was not matter itself. A new actuality has emerged in matter that did not exist before. It was soil, it was sperm, but it was not human. This human form was created and invented by Allah. All the verses state that man had matter in this world; But what happened? The tone of the verses is different in this regard; But the following can be deduced from the Qur'an:

 

 

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1. Earth

 


A few verses consider the earth as the source of human creation:

You are from the earth; (4) "He created you from the earth."

This is a metaphorical interpretation; That is, just as the plant grows from the earthly matter, grows, and finds plant life, so you were the earthly material that Allah gave you life. First you were a "sperm" and Aalah created you as a perfect human being, or when you were dust and Allah breathed life into that dust and became Adam, this is considered to grow from the earth.

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/11:61

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/53:32

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/71:17

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2. Soil

Similar to these verses are the verses that consider the origin of man to be "Torab", which is also a part of the earth:

فَإِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن تُرَابٍ ; (4) "Indeed, We created you from dust."

وَمِنْ آياتِهِ أَنْ خَلَقَكُم مِّن تُرَابٍ; (5)and (6) "And one of His signs is that He created you from dust."

وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَكُم مِّن تُرَابٍ; (7) "And God created you from dust."

https://tanzil.net/#53:32

https://tanzil.net/#22:5

https://tanzil.net/#71:17

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3. صلصال

In four verses, the origin of human origin "Salsal" is mentioned:

وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الإِنسَانَ مِن صَلْصَالٍ مِّنْ حَمَإٍ مَّسْنُونٍ; (1)and (2) "And indeed, We created man from a dry clay made of stinking mud."

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ نِنِّي خَلِقٌ بَشَرًا مِن صَلْصَالٍ مِّنْ حَمَإٍ مَّسْنُونٍ ; (3) "And remember when your Lord said to the angels: 'I am creating a human being from dry mud made of stinking mud.'

https://tanzil.net/#15:26

https://tanzil.net/#15:28

https://tanzil.net/#15:33

https://tanzil.net/#55:14

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4. Tin (mud)

Some verses have introduced mud as the first material of human creation:

He Who created you from clay; (1)and (2) "He is the One who created you from clay."

خَلَقْتَنِي مِن نَرٍ وَخَلَقْتَهُ مِن طين (3)and (4) "You created me from fire and created him from clay."

https://tanzil.net/#6:2

5. Water

In some verses, water is considered to be the origin of man:

وَهُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ مِنَ الْمَاءِ بَشَرًا فَجَعَلَهُ نَسَبًا وَصِحْرًا; (5)and (6) "He is the One who created man from water, then made him (possessed) of lineage and cause."

https://tanzil.net/#25:54

 

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This water can be interpreted in two ways:

One. The so-called customary water: In this case, it is one of the verses that know living beings from water:

وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَ كُلَّ دَابَّةٍ مِن مَّاء; (7) "And God created every living thing from water."

وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاء كُلَّ شَيْء حَيٍّ; (8) "And We created every living thing from water."

Two. Sperm: The stronger possibility is that the closer source, that is, the sperm, is meant and the evidence is the verses that have interpreted the sperm as "the water of Mahin" or "the water of Dafaq":

https://tanzil.net/#32:8

https://tanzil.net/#86:6

 

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6. sperm
Another group of verses considers the source of human creation to be only a sperm:

خَلَقَ الإِنسَنَ مِن نُّطْفَةٍ; (6)and (7) "He created man from a seed."

أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الإِنسَانُ أَنَّا خَلَقْنَاهُ مِن نُّطْفَةٍ; (8) "Does not man see that We created him from a seed?"

https://tanzil.net/#16:4

https://tanzil.net/#36:77

7. Sperm and Torab

In some verses, tarab and semen are combined:

فَإِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ مِن نّّطْفَةٍ; (2)and (3) "So We created you from dust and then from semen."

وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَكُم مَّن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ مِن نُّطْفَةٍ; (4) "And God created you from dust and then from semen."

https://tanzil.net/#22:5

https://tanzil.net/#35:11

There are two aspects to these verses:

1. The stages of creation of each person are considered separately; That is, soil is converted into nutrients and nutrients into sperm. So soil is the source of sperm and sperm is the origin of man; The soil is of distant origin, and the sperm is of near origin.

2. Since Adam is from dust and every human being leads to Adam in creation, then the origin of Adam's creation will be the origin of the creation of others as well.

https://mesbahyazdi.ir/node/4642/درس-سومآفرینش-انسان-2

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the application of "water" to semen is not unfamiliar in the Qur'an, and it would not seem unlikely if the meaning of "water" in the verse خلق من الماء بشرًا (5) issemen. We will say later that this verse and other verses that specify the sperm in the creation of man are not general; As Jesus and Adam (عليه السلام) were not created from sperm. So these verses only express the natural flow of human creation and those exceptional people are out of the context of the verses.

 

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ertainly, it is the bloating of the soul that caused the birth of Jesus, not the life of Mary; Because he has been alive before.

Let us now see what the soul itself is from the point of view of the Qur'an.

Uses of the word soul in the Quran (2)
The word spirit is used a lot in the Qur'an, which is different in terms of usage and how it is used. In three cases, the interpretation of the "Holy Spirit" is used to confirm Jesus:

وَآتَيْنَا ئِسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَيَّدْنَاهُ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ; (3)and (4) "And We gave clear proofs to Jesus, son of Mary, and confirmed him by the Holy Spirit."

ِْذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ یَا ئىسى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ (5) “And remember when God said: O Jesus son of Mary! "Remember my blessings upon you and your mother, when I have confirmed you with the Holy Spirit."

 

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It may be in some other narrations that the name of one of the great angels is the soul. Hence, this inflection and the companionship of the soul and the angels is of the type of "special mention after the general": it mentions the angels together with one of them who is their guardian or commander. As it is mentioned about Gabriel elsewhere that he is the commander of the angels: مُطَععٍ ثَمَّ أَمِينٍ ; In the upper world, Gabriel is obedient and a commander. If the example of the soul in the verse we are referring to is Gabriel, then it is his command, and the special mention is after the general.

1. Shurai (42), 52.

2. Nahl (16), 2.

3. Qadr (97), 4.

4. Maarij (70), 4.

 

 

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Summary
* Some verses refer to the various stages of human creation.

* The Qur'an's statement about the origin of human creation is various: sometimes it jumps from water, sometimes from mud, sometimes from sperm, sometimes from dried mud, and sometimes from sticky mud as the raw material of human creation.

* There is no conflict between these various sources, but each refers to a specific stage and some are specific to Adam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) .

* In the verses of the Qur'an, bloating of the soul is mentioned five times.

* The soul in the Qur'an has various uses; Such as the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit, my Spirit and the Spirit.

What is certain is that the soul has two real uses in the Qur'an: one is about the human soul; The other is about a creature of the angelic nature.

* The application of the soul to the angels and the being equal to the angel has a common aspect with the application of the soul to the human soul. The common denominator is a creature with life and consciousness.

In expressions such as "I am spiritual", the addition of the soul to the "Ya" is a ceremonial addition, not a proprietary or exclusive addition.

 

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question
1. What is the origin of human creation from the perspective of the Qur'an? Explain.

2. Give some examples of the uses of the soul in the Qur'an and explain their differences.

3. Describe the two real uses of the soul in the Qur'an.

4. What is the common denominator of the concept in the various uses of the soul?

5. What does the addition of the soul to the "Ya" in terms such as "I am spiritual" mean?

Lesson Two: The Creation of Man (

https://mesbahyazdi.ir/node/4642/درس-سومآفرینش-انسان-2

https://mesbahyazdi-ir.translate.goog/node/4642/درس-سومآفرینش-انسان-2?_x_tr_sl=fa&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fa&_x_tr_pto=nui

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam both thse quoted parts are against  word of Amir al Muminin  Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in Najul Balagha about creation  of Adam which he has stated that Adam has been created from mixture of different soils of Earth without mentioning taking any soil from Paradise in similar fashion creation  of Adam has happened  out of Paradise on Earth 

Salaam Aleikum I need to check the narration that I was once reading. Perhaps It only meant from earth. 

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8 hours ago, Cool said:

Was he created in paradise? That was the question. Everything up is not the paradise. Just like everything down is not the Earth.

What is the evidence with us that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has created Adam (عليه السلام) in paradise?

Yes. Adam and eve were created in paradise. Please look above for the narrations that I posted. 

Was it the same paradise where angels questioned God? I don't know. Was it the sam paradise that the believers will go to after their deaths? No. 

The main point is, Adam's creation did not occur through a natural process of evolution on Earth. 

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5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

The origin of human creation in the Qur'an
Verses related to the creation of man express a wide variety of topics. It is stated in some verses that Allah has created man while he was nothing before

The creation of other humans (بنی آدم) is completely different than the creation of Adam, and in no way should these two creations be conflated. 

 

 

P.S. 

If you'd like my response, please use your own words to argue foe your position. I don't and won't click on multitudes of links to try to figure out what you're trying to say. 

In my past experience, I have learned that many people post multiple links, they don't really understand or know what they're talking about. Sometimes (many times) people don't even read the links that they post and don't even know the nuances of their own links. 

So, if you have a specific position on a topic, please use your own words to indicate and argue for it. 

That's just me though. Others may still click on your links and read them. 

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9 hours ago, Cool said:

إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَى عِندَ اللّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُون

3:59

The next time this verse is used, remember the following Saheeh narration. (Source: الکافي ج ۲، ص ۷)

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ اِبْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنِ اِبْنِ أُذَيْنَةَ عَنْ زُرَارَةَ :░ أَنَّ رَجُلاً سَأَلَ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ عَنْ قَوْلِ اَللَّهِ جَلَّ وَ عَزَّ : «وَ إِذْ أَخَذَ رَبُّكَ مِنْ بَنِي آدَمَ مِنْ ظُهُورِهِمْ ذُرِّيَّتَهُمْ وَ أَشْهَدَهُمْ عَلىٰ أَنْفُسِهِمْ أَ لَسْتُ بِرَبِّكُمْ قٰالُوا بَلىٰ » إِلَى آخِرِ اَلْآيَةِ فَقَالَ وَ أَبُوهُ يَسْمَعُ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ حَدَّثَنِي أَبِي أَنَّ اَللَّهَ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ قَبَضَ قَبْضَةً مِنْ تُرَابِ اَلتُّرْبَةِ اَلَّتِي خَلَقَ مِنْهَا آدَمَ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ فَصَبَّ عَلَيْهَا اَلْمَاءَ اَلْعَذْبَ اَلْفُرَاتَ ثُمَّ تَرَكَهَا أَرْبَعِينَ صَبَاحاً ثُمَّ صَبَّ عَلَيْهَا اَلْمَاءَ اَلْمَالِحَ اَلْأُجَاجَ فَتَرَكَهَا أَرْبَعِينَ صَبَاحاً فَلَمَّا اِخْتَمَرَتِ اَلطِّينَةُ أَخَذَهَا فَعَرَكَهَا عَرْكاً شَدِيداً فَخَرَجُوا كَالذَّرِّ مِنْ يَمِينِهِ وَ شِمَالِهِ وَ أَمَرَهُمْ جَمِيعاً أَنْ يَقَعُوا فِي اَلنَّارِ فَدَخَلَ أَصْحَابُ اَلْيَمِينِ فَصَارَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ بَرْداً وَ سَلاَماً وَ أَبَى أَصْحَابُ اَلشِّمَالِ أَنْ يَدْخُلُوهَا .

 

The clay/Earth that Adam is created from is from the World of Particles. In other words, the clay/Earth isn't referring to our current Earth, the one that we're living on. This Earth wasn't even created, when Adam's clay was taken to create him. 

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Here's another Saheeh narration with information inconsistent with the natural evolution theory. 

Source:  الکافي ج ۱، ص ۴۳۷

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ اِبْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنِ اِبْنِ رِئَابٍ عَنْ بُكَيْرِ بْنِ أَعْيَنَ قَالَ كَانَ أَبُو جَعْفَرٍ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ يَقُولُ: إِنَّ اَللَّهَ أَخَذَ مِيثَاقَ شِيعَتِنَا بِالْوَلاَيَةِ لَنَا وَ هُمْ ذَرٌّ يَوْمَ أَخَذَ اَلْمِيثَاقَ عَلَى اَلذَّرِّ بِالْإِقْرَارِ لَهُ بِالرُّبُوبِيَّةِ وَ لِمُحَمَّدٍ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ بِالنُّبُوَّةِ وَ عَرَضَ اَللَّهُ جَلَّ وَ عَزَّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ أُمَّتَهُ فِي اَلطِّينِ وَ هُمْ أَظِلَّةٌ وَ خَلَقَهُمْ مِنَ اَلطِّينَةِ اَلَّتِي خُلِقَ مِنْهَا آدَمُ وَ خَلَقَ اَللَّهُ أَرْوَاحَ شِيعَتِنَا قَبْلَ أَبْدَانِهِمْ بِأَلْفَيْ عَامٍ وَ عَرَضَهُمْ عَلَيْهِ وَ عَرَّفَهُمْ رَسُولَ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ وَ عَرَّفَهُمْ عَلِيّاً وَ نَحْنُ نَعْرِفُهُمْ «فِي لَحْنِ اَلْقَوْلِ»

 

Read the highlighted part carefully. When they were created from the clay, they were still shadows. (أظلة). Clay orالطین does not imply physicality. طین or تراب does not refer to our Earth. They are not things taken from our Earth. So, clay or dust is not earthly clay or dust. 

 

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Here's a long Hasan narration. Again, it's merely impossible to read this narration and continue to believe that Adam was created on Earth or, even worse, naturally evolved on Earth from other primates. 

Source: الکافي ج ۲، ص ۸

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ اَلْحَسَنِ بْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ حَبِيبٍ اَلسِّجِسْتَانِيِّ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ يَقُولُ:░ إِنَّ اَللَّهَ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ لَمَّا أَخْرَجَ ذُرِّيَّةَ آدَمَ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ مِنْ ظَهْرِهِ لِيَأْخُذَ عَلَيْهِمُ اَلْمِيثَاقَ بِالرُّبُوبِيَّةِ لَهُ وَ بِالنُّبُوَّةِ لِكُلِّ نَبِيٍّ فَكَانَ أَوَّلَ مَنْ أَخَذَ لَهُ عَلَيْهِمُ اَلْمِيثَاقَ بِنُبُوَّتِهِ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ ثُمَّ قَالَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ لآِدَمَ اُنْظُرْ مَا ذَا تَرَى قَالَ فَنَظَرَ آدَمُ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ إِلَى ذُرِّيَّتِهِ وَ هُمْ ذَرٌّ قَدْ مَلَئُوا اَلسَّمَاءَ قَالَ آدَمُ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ يَا رَبِّ مَا أَكْثَرَ ذُرِّيَّتِي وَ لِأَمْرٍ مَا خَلَقْتَهُمْ فَمَا تُرِيدُ مِنْهُمْ بِأَخْذِكَ اَلْمِيثَاقَ عَلَيْهِمْ قَالَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ «يَعْبُدُونَنِي لاٰ يُشْرِكُونَ بِي شَيْئاً» وَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِرُسُلِي وَ يَتَّبِعُونَهُمْ قَالَ آدَمُ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ يَا رَبِّ فَمَا لِي أَرَى بَعْضَ اَلذَّرِّ أَعْظَمَ مِنْ بَعْضٍ وَ بَعْضَهُمْ لَهُ نُورٌ كَثِيرٌ وَ بَعْضَهُمْ لَهُ نُورٌ قَلِي لٌ وَ بَعْضَهُمْ لَيْسَ لَهُ نُورٌ فَقَالَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ كَذَلِكَ خَلَقْتُهُمْ لِأَبْلُوَهُمْ فِي كُلِّ حَالاَتِهِمْ قَالَ آدَمُ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ يَا رَبِّ فَتَأْذَنُ لِي فِي اَلْكَلاَمِ فَأَتَكَلَّمَ قَالَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ تَكَلَّمْ فَإِنَّ رُوحَكَ مِنْ رُوحِي وَ طَبِيعَتَكَ [مِنْ] خِلاَفِ كَيْنُونَتِي قَالَ آدَمُ يَا رَبِّ فَلَوْ كُنْتَ خَلَقْتَهُمْ عَلَى مِثَالٍ وَاحِدٍ وَ قَدْرٍ وَاحِدٍ وَ طَبِيعَةٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَ جِبِلَّةٍ وَاحِدَةً وَ أَلْوَانٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَ أَعْمَارٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَ أَرْزَاقٍ سَوَاءٍ لَمْ يَبْغِ بَعْضُهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَ لَمْ يَكُنْ بَيْنَهُمْ تَحَاسُدٌ وَ لاَ تَبَاغُضٌ وَ لاَ اِخْتِلاَفٌ فِي شَيْءٍ مِنَ اَلْأَشْيَاءِ قَالَ اَللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ يَا آدَمُ بِرُوحِي نَطَقْتَ وَ بِضَعْفِ طَبِيعَتِكَ تَكَلَّفْتَ مَا لاَ عِلْمَ لَكَ بِهِ وَ أَنَا اَلْخَالِقُ اَلْعَالِمُ بِعِلْمِي خَالَفْتُ بَيْنَ خَلْقِهِمْ وَ بِمَشِيئَتِي يَمْضِي فِيهِمْ أَمْرِي وَ إِلَى تَدْبِيرِي وَ تَقْدِيرِي صَائِرُونَ لاَ تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِي إِنَّمَا خَلَقْتُ اَلْجِنَّ وَ اَلْإِنْسَ «لِيَعْبُدُونِ» وَ خَلَقْتُ اَلْجَنَّةَ لِمَنْ أَطَاعَنِي وَ عَبَدَنِي مِنْهُمْ وَ اِتَّبَعَ رُسُلِي وَ لاَ أُبَالِي وَ خَلَقْتُ اَلنَّارَ لِمَنْ كَفَرَ بِي وَ عَصَانِي وَ لَمْ يَتَّبِعْ رُسُلِي وَ لاَ أُبَالِي وَ خَلَقْتُكَ وَ خَلَقْتُ ذُرِّيَّتَكَ مِنْ غَيْرِ فَاقَةٍ بِي إِلَيْكَ وَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَ إِنَّمَا خَلَقْتُكَ وَ خَلَقْتُهُمْ لِأَبْلُوَكَ وَ أَبْلُوَهُمْ «أَيُّكُمْ أَحْسَنُ عَمَلاً» فِي دَارِ اَلدُّنْيَا فِي حَيَاتِكُمْ وَ قَبْلَ مَمَاتِكُمْ فَلِذَلِكَ خَلَقْتُ اَلدُّنْيَا وَ اَلْآخِرَةَ وَ اَلْحَيَاةَ وَ اَلْمَوْتَ وَ اَلطَّاعَةَ وَ اَلْمَعْصِيَةَ وَ اَلْجَنَّةَ وَ اَلنَّارَ وَ كَذَلِكَ أَرَدْتُ فِي تَقْدِيرِي وَ تَدْبِيرِي وَ بِعِلْمِيَ اَلنَّافِذِ فِيهِمْ خَالَفْتُ بَيْنَ صُوَرِهِمْ وَ أَجْسَامِهِمْ وَ أَلْوَانِهِمْ وَ أَعْمَارِهِمْ وَ أَرْزَاقِهِمْ وَ طَاعَتِهِمْ وَ مَعْصِيَتِهِمْ فَجَعَلْتُ مِنْهُمُ اَلشَّقِيَّ وَ اَلسَّعِيدَ وَ اَلْبَصِيرَ وَ اَلْأَعْمَى وَ اَلْقَصِيرَ وَ اَلطَّوِيلَ وَ اَلْجَمِيلَ وَ اَلدَّمِيمَ وَ اَلْعَالِمَ وَ اَلْجَاهِلَ وَ اَلْغَنِيَّ وَ اَلْفَقِيرَ وَ اَلْمُطِيعَ وَ اَلْعَاصِيَ وَ اَلصَّحِيحَ وَ اَلسَّقِيمَ وَ مَنْ بِهِ اَلزَّمَانَةُ وَ مَنْ لاَ عَاهَةَ بِهِ فَيَنْظُرُ اَلصَّحِيحُ إِلَى اَلَّذِي بِهِ اَلْعَاهَةُ فَيَحْمَدُنِي عَلَى عَافِيَتِهِ وَ يَنْظُرُ اَلَّذِي بِهِ اَلْعَاهَةُ إِلَى اَلصَّحِيحِ فَيَدْعُونِي وَ يَسْأَلُنِي أَنْ أُعَافِيَهُ وَ يَصْبِرُ عَلَى بَلاَئِي فَأُثِيبُهُ جَزِيلَ عَطَائِي وَ يَنْظُرُ اَلْغَنِيُّ إِلَى اَلْفَقِيرِ فَيَحْمَدُنِي وَ يَشْكُرُنِي وَ يَنْظُرُ اَلْفَقِيرُ إِلَى اَلْغَنِيِّ فَيَدْعُونِي وَ يَسْأَلُنِي وَ يَنْظُرُ اَلْمُؤْمِنُ إِلَى اَلْكَافِرِ فَيَحْمَدُنِي عَلَى مَا هَدَيْتُهُ فَلِذَلِكَ خَلَقْتُهُمْ لِأَبْلُوَهُمْ فِي اَلسَّرَّاءِ وَ اَلضَّرَّاءِ وَ فِيمَا أُعَافِيهِمْ وَ فِيمَا أَبْتَلِيهِمْ وَ فِيمَا أُعْطِيهِمْ وَ فِيمَا أَمْنَعُهُمْ وَ أَنَا اَللَّهُ اَلْمَلِكُ اَلْقَادِرُ وَ لِي أَنْ أَمْضِيَ جَمِيعَ مَا قَدَّرْتُ عَلَى مَا دَبَّرْتُ وَ لِي أَنْ أُغَيِّرَ مِنْ ذَلِكَ مَا شِئْتُ إِلَى مَا شِئْتُ وَ أُقَدِّمَ مِنْ ذَلِكَ مَا أَخَّرْتُ وَ أُؤَخِّرَ مِنْ ذَلِكَ مَا قَدَّمْتُ وَ أَنَا اَللَّهُ اَلْفَعَّالُ لِمَا أُرِيدُ لاَ أُسْأَلُ عَمَّا أَفْعَلُ وَ أَنَا أَسْأَلُ خَلْقِي عَمَّا هُمْ فَاعِلُونَ .

 

First and foremost, us, all humans until the Day of Qiyama, were existing inside of Adam's back. This implies that Adam's complete human form must have already existed and we were located inside of him as particles. Our particles made covenant with Allah. This implies that our particles were conscious. We were conscious particles inside Adam. 

How in the world, can this be reconciled with the notion that Adam has evolved on Earth? 

In addition, God is communicating with Adam, asking him to look at us, as particles, in the sky (السماء). 

Keep in mind, all of this is happening in the World of Particles. It's very important to notice that there was a سماء, in the World of Particles, with us scattered all around it, for Adam to look at us. 

None of this can ever be reconciled with the theory of human evolution. 

Furthermore, it is clear that السماء or sky isn't referring to our sky. تراب and طین and سماء, all exist or existed in the World of Particles. So did ارض. 

Therefore, when you read verses in the Qur'an speaking about Adam's creation from Earth or clay, do not assume they're referring to our Earth or natural clay/dust. They're not. 

 

 

On a different note, read this narration in full. It's a beautiful, insightful narration.

Edited by SoRoUsH
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17 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Yes. Adam and eve were created in paradise. Please look above for the narrations that I posted. 

Was it the same paradise where angels questioned God? I don't know. Was it the sam paradise that the believers will go to after their deaths? No.

Salam according to narration their soil have taken from earth which both of them have been created out of any paradise which  nothing  has mentioned about place of their creation which surly  it has happened  out of promised paradise  which according  to Shia narrations  they have entered to a type of paradise on earth . 

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Khold Paradise is a permanent paradise in which there is no duty. And some have said that Paradise is a garden of gardens on earth. (8) because Shaitan  have no way into Khold Paradise. A : And the Qur'an quotes the words of Satan who said to Adam: Do you believe in the tree of immortality? "Do you want that I  lead you to Khold  tree ?" "Let me guide you." (Taha / 120) And this indicates that Adam was not in the paradise of Khold.
B: It is not true that some people used the commandment of the descent that Adam was in heaven and landed, because in the Qur'an, Noah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) disembarked from the ark (Ahbat Baslam Mena…. Hood / 48) and to leave The Children of Israel used the word "descent" to the city (Ahbatwa Masra… Baqara / 61).

 بهشت خلد، بهشتی دائمی است که در آن تکلیف نیست. و بعضی نیز گفته‌اند که بهشت بوستانی از بوستانهای روی زمین است.(8) زیرا که شیطان به بهشت خلد راه ندارد. الف: و قرآن از قول شیطان نقل می‌کند که به آدم گفت: هل ادلک علی شجرة الخلد . «آیا می‌خواهی تو را به درخت خلد؛ راهنمایی کنم.» (طه/120) و این نشانگر این است که آدم در بهشت خلد نبوده است.
ب: این که بعضی از فرمان هبوط چنین استفاده کرده‌اند که آدم در آسمان بود و فرود آمده است، درست نیست، زیرا که در قرآن پیاده شدن حضرت نوح (ع) از کشتی (اهبط بسلام منّا…. هود/48) .و برای رفتن بنی‌اسرائیل به شهر (اهبطوا مصراً … بقره/61) از واژه هبوط استفاده کرده است

 

 

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C: And also the Hereafter; It is permanent. (Khalidin fiha laibghun anha hula "[the people of paradise] are immortal in it and from the beginning they do not have the tendency to move to another place. Kahf / 108) and And they will never be expelled from that eternal paradise. "Al-Hijr / 48) (9)
On the other hand, Allah said to the angels at the beginning of the story of Adam:  ٌ فِي الأرضِ خَلیفةً - and we have no reason why Allah took this man which He created on this earth ascended  to the heavens.

ج: و نیز بهشت اخروی؛ همیشگی است. (خالدین فیها لایبغون عنها حولاً «]اهل بهشت[ در آن جاودانند و از آغاز گرایش انتقال به جای دیگر را ندارند. کهف/108) و (لا یمسّهم فیها نصب و ما هم منها بمجزجین «هیچ رنج و زحمت در آنجا به آنها نرسد و هرگز از آن بهشت ابد بیرونشان نکنند.» حجر/48)(9)
از طرفی خداوند در آغاز داستان آدم به فرشتگان فرمود: اِنّی جاعِل‏ٌ فِی الأرضِ خَلیفةً – و هیچ دلیلی نداریم که خداوند این آدمی را که در این کره زمین آفریده به آسمانها برده باشد.

 

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(8) طبرسی، تفسیر مجمع البیان ج 1/ص 187.

Tabresi , Tafseer Majma 'al Baian  v1 p 187
(9) در روایتی از امام صادق (ع) روایت شده که بهشت آدمی از بوستانهای دنیا بود که خورشید و ماه بر آن می‌تافت و اگر از بهشت اُخروی بود، هرگز از آن رانده نمی‌شد. (تفسیر نورالثقلین ج 1/ص 92).

Tafseer Noor al Thaqalain v 1 p92

In a narration of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) it is narrated that the paradise of man was one of the gardens of the world on which the sun and the moon shone and if it were from the paradise of the hereafter, he would never have been expelled from it.

 

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The question now is, where on earth was Adam's paradise? According to the Torah, there was a river in Adam's paradise, which it was watering it  and was divided into four streams: the rivers of Fishun, Jihun, Hadqal, and the Euphrates. (10)
According to some commentators, Adam's paradise was probably the land of Quds. [11]
وَاِذْ قُلنَا ادخلوا هذه لقلریة فكلوا منها حيت شيتم رغداً… (بقره / 58)
The paradise of Aden, which according to this story was the abode of Adam, according to some scholars in northern Mesopotamia, was located in the Euphrates plain between the cities of Anha and Heath, and some scholars consider it to be the present confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates between Ur and Orido. They know the Persian Gulf. (12)
The descent of Adam and Eve in Sarandib:
فَقُلْنَا احْبِطُوا مِنَها جَمیعاً… «We said: You will all come down from Paradise… ..» (Al-Baqarah / 38)
In many narrations; Mount Saradib (Ceylon or Sri Lanka) in southern India has been mentioned as the first landing and abode of Adam (عليه السلام). [13] The height of this mountain is 7420 feet and it is said that the plant that grows on this island is one of the leaves that Adam carried with him from heaven. [15] 16) The origin of the idea that Adam landed in southern India is the opinion of some commentators who, based on what is stated in the Torah, that there were four streams flowing in Adam's paradise, the first of which was Fishun, thought that the Fishun River was  stream. of India and the paradise of Aden is in India and Adam and Eve descended to the south of Sarandib Island (Ceylon) after leaving India. But when archaeologists excavated the ruins of Mesopotamia, they found that Adam's paradise was in Mesopotamia. [17]

http://ensani.ir/fa/article/76522/داستان-آدم-و-حوا-ع-در-قرآن-کریم

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10 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

When they were created from the clay, they were still shadows. (أظلة). Clay orالطین does not imply physicality. طین or تراب does not refer to our Earth. They are not things taken from our Earth. So, clay or dust is not earthly clay or dust. 

You have mistaken the words then translation 

9 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Furthermore, it is clear that السماء or sky isn't referring to our sky. تراب and طین and سماء, all exist or existed in the World of Particles. So did ارض. 

Therefore, when you read verses in the Qur'an speaking about Adam's creation from Earth or clay, do not assume they're referring to our Earth or natural clay/dust. They're not. 

your mistake is that you always have refered to promised paradise but on the other hand based on shia  narration  the pointed paradise in story creation has been Jannah/ paradise garden  on earth which ways of skies/Paradises have been open to earth which gradually these ways have been closed to Shaitan & Jinns until all of ways to skies/Paradises have been closed completely  by birth of prophet  Muhammad (pbu) which Shaitan & Jinns have said "we don't know anymore what will happen on earth but we gues it would be either a great blessing  or great punishment  on earth"

10 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

When they were created from the clay, they were still shadows. (أظلة).

It's not shadow due to blocking  light but on the other hand is likewise burning candle in front of sun which creates shadows of light 

 

9 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

ow in the world, can this be reconciled with the notion that Adam has evolved on Earth? 

In addition, God is communicating with Adam, asking him to look at us, as particles, in the sky (السماء). 

likewise we see stars from eath which we assume that stars have filled sky in countless  number.

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