Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Why did rasool announce khilafat of mawla Ali in Ghadeer Khum not in Arafat

Rate this topic


Guest Ali

Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
On 5/8/2022 at 9:09 PM, Cool said:

And lastly Ammar (رضي الله عنه) is also well aware of this verse too:

عَسَىٰ رَبُّهُ إِنْ طَلَّقَكُنَّ أَنْ يُبْدِلَهُ أَزْوَاجًا خَيْرًا مِنْكُنَّ مُسْلِمَاتٍ مُؤْمِنَاتٍ قَانِتَاتٍ تَائِبَاتٍ عَابِدَاتٍ سَائِحَاتٍ ثَيِّبَاتٍ وَأَبْكَارًا

I am not going to translate this Arabic text. But the description given after "khayran minkunna" specifically "muslimaatin mo'minaat" is very meaningful. 

Perhaps, if he were to divorce you ˹all˺, his Lord would replace you with better wives

Here Allah Almighty in reprimanding them – “Perhaps, if he were to” and telling them what the consequences could be.

“Who are submissive ˹to Allah˺, faithful ˹to Him˺, devout, repentant, dedicated to worship and fasting”

Here Allah Almighty is not negating that they don’t perform these acts. 

Yes, they were criticised and warned. They repented and apologised for their action and were forgiven. End of matter. And they remained wives of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

لَّا يَحِلُّ لَكَ ٱلنِّسَآءُ مِنۢ بَعْدُ وَلَآ أَن تَبَدَّلَ بِهِنَّ مِنْ أَزْوَجٍۢ وَلَوْ أَعْجَبَكَ حُسْنُهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا مَلَكَتْ يَمِينُكَۗ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ رَّقِيبًۭا ‎

It is not lawful for you ˹O Prophet˺ to marry more women after this, nor can you replace any of your present wives with another, even if her beauty may attract you—except those ˹bondwomen˺ in your possession. And Allah is ever Watchful over all things. Verse 52 Surah Al-Azab

Dear brother, pay attention to the verse of the Blessed Qur’an quoted above. Allah Almighty has given permanency to his marriage all his present wives (may Allah be pleased with them). From then on, the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) he was commanded not to contract any more marriages. And that his present wives cannot be replaced. That means the present wives with at present will be his wives in this world and the Hereafter forever!!!!!!!

Hz. 'Ammar bin Yasir (may Allah be pleased with him) knew what he was talking about when he said:

“BY ALLAH! SHE IS THE WIFE OF YOUR PROPHET IN THIS WORLD AND IN THE HEREAFTER.”

Dear Brother, last 3 days I spent my time reading any Shia ‘material’ about official views about the honourable Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and especially those who were very close to him. To put is very mildly, I was really shocked to read the material. I knew and read here and there about the hatred – not to that depth and extent!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I am posting the copy of Dua Saname Quraish – A very serious charge sheet.  No wonder the effect on those who read such material and believing it to be true. 

Dua Saname Quraish – (the idols of Quraish) – Duas.org Idols of Quraish are Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar Hz. Aisha and Hz. Hafsa (may Allah be pleased with them)

O Allah! Curse the two idols of Quraish and their two magicians, their two rebellious people, their two accusers and their two daughters. Rebuke them, they have consumed Your sustenance and have denied Your obligations, both have discarded Your commands, have rejected Your revelation, have disobeyed Your Prophet, have destroyed Your religion, have distorted Your book, have made Your laws ineffective, have declared Your obligatory actions as incorrect, have disbelieved in Your signs, have oppressed Your friend have loved Your enemies, have spread corruption among Your people, have made Your world occur loses.

O Allah! Send Your curses on them and their helpers as they have ruined the house of Your prophet, have dug the door of his house, broken the roof, have brought down the walls, have made the skies, the ground, have destroyed its inhabitants, have killed their supporters have put to death, their children have deserted his pulpit by his successors of knowledge, have desired his prophet hood, have ascribed a partner to their Lord, thus consider both of their sins to be great, and make their abode in 'saqar' forever, and do you know what is 'saqar?' It leaves nothing, nor let anything remain.

O Allah, send Your chastisement on them to the extent of the sins of every disobedient, and the covering of truth, and all the pupils where they have gone, and the believer whom they have harmed and the disbeliever whom they have loved, and to the number of pious people whom they have troubled, and whom they have driven out of their cities, and helped the disbelievers, and the Imam on whom they were cruel and have changed the obligatory laws, and have destroyed the practice of the Holy Prophet, and whatever evils they have concealed, the blood which they shed, have changed the goodness

O Allah! Curse the two idols of Quraish and their two magicians, their two rebellious people, their two accusers and their two daughters. Rebuke them, they have consumed Your sustenance and have denied Your obligations, both have rejected Your revelation, have disobeyed Your Prophet, have destroyed Your religion, have distorted Your book, have made Your laws ineffective, have declared Your obligatory actions as incorrect, have disbelieved in Your signs, have oppressed Your friends, have loved Your enemies, have spread corruption among Your people, have made

O Allah! Send Your curses on them and their helpers as they have ruined the house of Your prophet, have dug the door of his house, broken the roof, have brought down the walls, have made the skies, the ground, have destroyed its inhabitants, have killed their supporters have put to death, their children have deserted his pulpit by his successors of knowledge, have desired his prophet a partner to their Lord, thus consider both of their sins to be great, and make their abode in 'saqar' forever, and do you know what is 'saqar?' It leaves nothing, nor let anything remain.

O Allah, send Your chastisement on them to the extent of the sins of every disobedient, and the covering of truth, and all the pupils where they have gone, and the believer whom they have harmed and whom they have loved, and to the number of pious people whom they have troubled, and whom they have driven out of their cities, and helped the disbelievers, and the Imam on whom they were cruel and have changed the obligatory laws, and have destroyed the practice of the Holy Prophet, and whatever evils they have concealed, the blood which they shed, have changed the goodness and have altered the commands, have created disbelief, or the lie for which they have cheated, the inheritance which they have plundered, and stopped the booties from them and have consumed the prohibited wealth, and that 'Khums' (the fifth part) which they considered as permitted for them, and that evil whose foundation were put, and that cruelty which they made common, that oppression, which they spread, those promises, which they dishonoured, those covenant which they broke, those lawful which is termed as unlawful, and that unlawful which is termed as lawful, that hypocrisy which they have concealed in the hearts, and to the amount of treachery which they bore in their hearts, and those stomach which they have split open, and that 'pahlu' which they broke, and that door which they broke-opened, and those gatherings which they dispersed and those degraded whom they gave honour, and those honourable whom they insulted, and by the number of rights which they have usurped, and the order of Imam which they opposed, bestow Your wrath on them to the extent of the atrocities.

O Allah! Your curses on them to the extent of alteration in Quran and covering the truth, rendering the will, worthless, and breaking the promises, and declaring all the claims as void, refusing all the allegiances, presenting excuses, introducing breach of trust, climbing of hills and to the nuer of vessel which they turned upside down and all that defects which they possessed. Bestow Your curses on them.

O Allah curse those two, secretly and openly, such a beating which is forever continuous, nonstop and innumerable. Such a whipping which commences in the morning but does not end at night. Such a beating should be on those tyrants, and their helpers, their assistance, their friends and their lovers, those attracted to them and those who acknowledge their deeds, those who present proof for them, and those who follow their words, and those who approve their actions.

(Then recite four times). O Allah! Send such a harsh chastisement upon them, that the dwellers of Hell start screaming, O Lord of the Universe accept this prayer from me.

https://www.duas.org/alaviya/dua-120.htm

 The prayer of Sanam-e-Quraish (the idols of Quraish) is a very authentic supplication of Amir-ul-Momineen Hazrat Ali bin Abi Talib as and it has been recognised by all renowned historians as such.

She is considered to an enemy to the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), Hz. Ali, Hz. Fatimah, Hz. Hassan, Hz. Hussein, (may Allah be pleased with them)

Why would 5 honourable Imams from the 11 who had children care to name their daughters ‘Aisha’ if she was such a horrible detestable person? 

4th imam Imam Zeinal-Abidin daughter - Aisha bint Ali Zayn al-Abidin; 6th Imam Jafar as-Sadiq - Aisha bint Jafar as-Sadiq; 7th Imam Musa al-Kadhim - Aisha bint Musa al-Kadhim; - 8th Imam Ali al-Rida - Aisha bint Ali al-Rida; 10th Imam Ali al-Hadi - Aisha bint Ali al-Hadi (may Allah be pleased with them)

It can’t be assumed that they were not aware of her history as per Shia sources and still used this name.  If, it was okay with them, shouldn’t Modern times Shia be doing the same?  Or is the influence of Safavids and Baqer Majlesi more persuasive and convenient to enhance sectarian control?

Sunnis despite her noble and exalted status as Mother of the Believers, don’t consider Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) her infallible. She was still a human being who undoubtedly committed mistakes. Sunnis acknowledge the fact that Hz. Aisha, along with Hz. Zubair and Hz. Talha (may Allah be pleased with them) were in error in the historical event of the Battle of Jamal, while Hz. Ali ((may Allah be pleased with him) was upon the truth, not only in the Battle of Jamal, but in the subsequent War of Siffin against Mu‘awiya and in the Battle of Nahrawan against the Kharijite renegades who were once supported him in the Battle of Jamal and in the battle of Siffin.

 

May Allah Almighty bless you and your dear family with the best of both worlds – May it be so with Allah Almighty’s Grace

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
On 5/9/2022 at 2:06 AM, Abu Nur said:

It is actually very easy to see the muslim personalities by comparing them with the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws) and after his demise. The great test was after the Prophet where many actually falled, by expansion of land and culture and increase of wealth and power and taking care of Prophet Ahulbayt.

Yes, it is very easy to see this if one was to see history from sectarian predisposition.

But the Blessed Qur’an is witness otherwise!!

Muḥammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are firm with the disbelievers and compassionate with one another. You see them bowing and prostrating ˹in prayer˺, seeking Allah’s bounty and pleasure. The sign ˹of brightness can be seen˺ on their faces from the trace of prostrating ˹in prayer˺. This is their description in the Torah. And their parable in the Gospel is that of a seed that sprouts its ˹tiny˺ branches, making it strong. Then it becomes thick, standing firmly on its stem, to the delight of the planters—in this way Allah makes the believers a source of dismay for the disbelievers. To those of them who believe and do good, Allah has promised forgiveness and a great reward. Verse 29 Surah al-Fath

The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was the best of the Prophets and the best of the teachers. The quality of pupils reflects the greatness of the teacher.

Without true faith, commitment and selfless sacrifices the great Islamic expansion would never have taken place. Within 15 years of passing away of the blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) the two superpowers of the time were smashed and brought to their knees. Islam was introduced to these areas.

In the times of Khilafah Rashideen the blessed family of the blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) were well taken care of. This is well documented in real history and not that of the Zakirs.

You said:

Quote

Take an example of elites Talha and Zubayr, an early converts who gave their life and wealth to Islam became stingy and love with wealth. Aisha manifested her hate of Ahlulbayt by literally "acting" to kill Imam Ali (عليه السلام), even, when the Prophet clearly have instucted to love, follow and take care of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام).

Again, the blessed Qur’an contradicts your statement.

As for the foremost—the first of the Emigrants and the Helpers—and those who follow them in goodness, Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him. And He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow, to stay there for ever and ever. That is the ultimate triumph. Verse 100 Surah at-Taubah

Allah Almighty has declared that he is Pleased with first of Emigrants and the Helpers (the two noble personalities you named are included here) and that they were pleased with Him and were rewarded well to the fullest.

There is consistency in Laws of Allah Almighty. 
……………….and you will never find change in Our system. (77 Surah Bani Israil)

You said:

Quote

It was very hard for the Prophet (saws) to raise and take care of His companions, but the real test was really after his demise, and many of the elites Companions started to follow their desires, and many of them felt that they deserve what they desire, because of how much they have done toward Islam, this was their great sin.

Again, the real history contradicts your statement.

The great Companions (may Allah be pleased with them all) conquered two superpowers of the time and land much further- this doesn’t happen with following personal desires but requires great personal sacrifices and commitment. Even if they gained wealth due to Ghanimah (Spoils of war) they used this to finance further conquests. Jihad also requires to be financed to be executed.

The real history is witness to this and the ~Blessed Qur’an vouches for their great uprightness.

YOU ARE indeed the best community that has ever been brought forth for [the good of] mankind: you enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and you believe in God. Now if the followers of earlier revelation had attained to [this kind of] faith, it would have been for their own good; [but only few] among them are believers, while most of them are iniquitous Verse 110 Surah al-Imran

You said:

Quote

It was very hard for the Prophet (saws) to raise and take care of His companions, but the real test was really after his demise, and many of the elites Companions started to follow their desires, and many of them felt that they deserve what they desire, because of how much they have done toward Islam, this was their great sin.

Again, the real history contradicts your statement.

The great Companions (may Allah be pleased with them all) conquered two superpowers of the time and land much further- this doesn’t happen with following personal desires but requires great personal sacrifices and commitment. Even if they gained wealth due to Ghanimah (Spoils of war) they used this to finance further conquests. Jihad also requires to be financed to be executed.

The real history is witness to this and the ~Blessed Qur’an vouches for their great uprightness.

YOU ARE indeed the best community that has ever been brought forth for [the good of] mankind: you enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and you believe in God. Now if the followers of earlier revelation had attained to [this kind of] faith, it would have been for their own good; [but only few] among them are believers, while most of them are iniquitous Verse 110 Surah al-Imran

 

Edited by Debate follower
grammar ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 5/9/2022 at 2:28 AM, Abu Nur said:

The concept of Imamate is mentioned many times in Qur'an, it is an covenant. For example Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) made Prophet Ibrahim as Imam and that the Imamate comes from his lineage choosed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). This means that if Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wants to make someone Imam (عليه السلام), he must be coming from lineage of Ibrahim (عليه السلام) and he also must be choosed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and that he can not be from wrongdoars. 

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [Allah] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [Allah] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

This verse literally defines the Imamate. It is an Covenant "My covenant  ": Imamah: "Leader for the People". By not including the wrongdoers, this exactly means the infallibility is also extended to Imams. This means that any wrongdoer excluded this title. Choosed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said "I will make you ". From lineage of Ibrahim, because of "And of my descendants?" .

If one was to ask any neutral person who has absolutely no knowledge of Islamic beliefs to go thoroughly through the Blessed Qur’an and list the fundamental beliefs.

He/she will definitely come back with 1) Tawheed 2) Prophethood 3) Prayers 4) Performing Hajj 5) Paying Zakat 6) Jihad 7) "Enjoin the good and forbid the wrong" 8) Dietary laws 9) Abstaining from haram acts 10) Angels 11) Jinn 12) Shaytaan 13) Day of Judgment 14) Heaven and Hell – these are oft repeated Commands of Allah Almighty!

Imamate can only be arrived at by inference. And that’s not how Allah Almighty gives His Commands.

 

You said:

Quote

The reason why some Shias believe that Imamah is higher in rank than Prophethood is because of this exactly verse: when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. Here Ibrahim (عليه السلام) was already prophet and he was tested with higher test and he fullfilled them so God made him Imam because of his fulfilment of these test.

It is not just some Shias but it is fundamental belief of Shia that Imamah is higher in rank than prophethood!!!

THE SHI’A BELIEVE THAT THE RANK OF IMAMAT (THE POSITION OF A DIVINELY- APPOINTED LEADER) IS HIGHER THAN THAT OF PROPHETHOOD AND MESSENGERSHIP.

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/imamat-versus-prophethood-part-1

 

You said:

Quote

I don't get your point.

I had posted the following to show that Imamate is not ranked anywhere as it is not part of Usul ul din! Prophethood is ranked the highest.

See the following Blessed ayah which lists those whom Allah Almighty has bestowed favours upon: 1) The Prophets (peace be upon them all) 2) the Martyrs 3) the Good - What’s missing? Shia version of Imamate which is ranked higher than Prophet-hood!

And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favours from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they Verse 69 an-Nisa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 5/9/2022 at 2:28 AM, Abu Nur said:

It is you who really don't get it. If Jews and Christians were the right religion in the past, then why God allowed majority of them to misguided and only small sect to be guided? Do you get it now? My argument is that being minority or majority does not prove the sect is right.

Sorry, it’s other way round. We are not allowed to question Allah Almighty, full stop.

“He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned.” Verse 23 Surah Al-Anbiya

Allah Almighty has vowed to make His final Message prevail over all other religions.  And fully guard it’s Book from being corrupted.

He it is Who has sent His Messenger, with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it prevail over all other religions. 33 Al-Taubah;

He it is Who sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness 28 Al-Fath 10 Al-Saff

Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, We, will be its guardian. Verse 9 Surah Al-Hijr

You Said:

Quote

My argument is that being minority or majority does not prove the sect is right.

The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf. Sermon 126 Nahjul Balagha

Well, Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) doesn’t agree with you. Or it sounds better to say that you don’t seem to be agreeing with Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him).

He is in fact advising Muslims to be with the great Majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. Note he is using the word Majority here!!!!!! Obviously, he doesn’t want people to be with the Minority!!!!!!

The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf. Sermon 126 Nahjul Balagha

The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said the same thing and in same theme.

The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said “The devil continually pursues humans as a wolf pursues sheep. The wolf only dares to attack those sheep which have separated from the rest of the flock and are standing alone. And so, my followers and my devotees! Save yourselves from being caught in the traps of misguidance and firmly remain with the largest and most well-known group of Muslims!” [ Imam Ahmed]

There are other few hadith from many on the same theme.

When asked which group will be on the right path, the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “The main (al-Jama’ah) body of the Muslims.” [Ibne Majah Kitab al-Fitan]

When asked which group will be on the right path, the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “The group on the right path, which will enter Paradise, will be the group which follows my Sunna and that of my Sahaba and this will be the largest group of Muslims.” [Tirmizi, Imam Ahmad, Abu Daud, Mishkat]

The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said “Without doubt my Ummah will never be gathered in misguidance. Whenever you see disagreement, then hold fast to the Sawad-e-Azam (the great majority)” [Ibne Majah]

The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said:” Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For, he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!” [Ibne Majah]

The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said “Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah’s mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell.” [ Tirmizi]

The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “He who deviates from the largest group of Muslims, even as much as a hand span, has himself cut off his connection with Islam.” [Abu Daud, Imam Ahmed]

Brother Abu Nur, You, be satisfied and feel secure in being an elitist marginal minority; We, are satisfied and feel confident in being equalitarian overwhelming majority.

You said:

Quote

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) actually asked Talha and Zubayr to take the matter of Khilafa where where they refused so.

When Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) was elected to Khilafa, he has no right to pass it on to others! And by refusing this offer clearly shows that Hz. Talha and Hz. Zubayr (may Allah be pleased with them) were not interested in it but only justice for brutal murder of Hz. Uthman bin Affan (may Allah be pleased with them).

You said:

Quote

He knew that these same two are going to cause problems and fitnah, and for Imam Ali (عليه السلام) unity of Ummah and the Religion of Prophet (saws) is the the most important thing and his duty as imam to lead people to right path.

Hz. Az-Zubayr (may Allah be pleased with him) left the fighting and went to a valley. Then 'Amr ibn Jurmuz followed him and killed him while he was sleeping. When the news came to 'Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) he said, 'Say to the one who killed Ibn Safiyyah (i.e., az-Zubayr (may Allah be pleased with him): 'You will be a dweller of Hell-fire.'' Then Ibn Jurmuz came carrying the sword of Az-Zubayr (may Allah be pleased with him) Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with) him said, 'This sword has many times protected the face of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

As for Hz. Talhah (may Allah be pleased with) him he was killed by an arrow wound to his ankle. Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) stood in front of his dead body and said, 'May Allah bless you O Aba Muhammad. It is disheartening for me to see you twisted dead under the stars of the sky!' Then he said, 'I complain to Allah! I wish I had died twenty years ago'. It is also reported that Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) said, 'I hope that Talhah, Az-Zubayr and I will be among those Allah described as (what means):

"And We shall remove from their breasts any sense of injury (that they may have), (So they will be like) brothers facing each other on thrones. Verse 47 Surah al-Hijr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
1 hour ago, Debate follower said:

Sorry, it’s other way round. We are not allowed to question Allah Almighty, full stop.

“He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned.” Verse 23 Surah Al-Anbiya

Allah Almighty has vowed to make His final Message prevail over all other religions.  And fully guard it’s Book from being corrupted.

He it is Who has sent His Messenger, with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it prevail over all other religions. 33 Al-Taubah;

He it is Who sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness 28 Al-Fath 10 Al-Saff

Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, We, will be its guardian. Verse 9 Surah Al-Hijr

Salaam Aleikum,

It is an rhetorical question, not really questioning Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). All of these verses does not prove majority sect means the truth one. My argument is still valid, it has nothing to do with quantity. Majority is neither sing of truth or sign of falsehood, it really does not tell you anything.

Quote

The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf. Sermon 126 Nahjul Balagha

No where in this stament Imam Ali (عليه السلام) even indicate that the majority are in the truth path of belief. This is a very good advice of unity, because Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) are wery well known for their love of religion and unity of Ummah and many times they advice us to always be with the majority together to keep the unity and as being one Ummah. I pray to God that there will be soon a day where there are no more division like now, but that all Muslims could unity as one Ummah and love and respect each other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Wa'alaykum Salaam brother,

8 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

No where in this stament Imam Ali (عليه السلام) even indicate that the majority are in the truth path of belief.

"be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity."

"The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims)"

Dear brother, Allah Almighty's hand (of protection) will ONLY with those who are on on the Truth!!!

14 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

I pray to God that there will be soon a day where there are no more division like now, but that all Muslims could unity as one Ummah and love and respect each other.

May Allah Almighty accept your sincere dua. This dua should be on every Muslim's lips. May Allah bless you and your dear family with all that is good - may it be so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)
Quote

Again, the blessed Qur’an contradicts your statement.

As for the foremost—the first of the Emigrants and the Helpers—and those who follow them in goodness, Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him. And He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow, to stay there for ever and ever. That is the ultimate triumph. Verse 100 Surah at-Taubah

Allah Almighty has declared that he is Pleased with first of Emigrants and the Helpers (the two noble personalities you named are included here) and that they were pleased with Him and were rewarded well to the fullest.

There is consistency in Laws of Allah Almighty. 
……………….and you will never find change in Our system. (77 Surah Bani Israil)

The word "min" indicate some of them and not all of them.

When it says that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is pleased with them and they are please with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), it means God knows that amoung them are those who will follow His path sincerity till end in every action God is pleased with them and they are pleasing God by following those actions that please God, but it does not gurantee all of them. If one of them do something that does not please Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) then you can not say that "Allah is pleased with them". Nor when they do very evil things then they are pleased with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). This imply that there were amoung them those who really followed till the end in goodness and those who did not. And this can be seen by their actions after the Prophet (saws).

I believe as the Qur'an says: "Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him" And leave it to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who truly are among that group in Day of Judgement.

Edited by Abu Nur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Debate follower said:

"be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity."

 

God protect those who keep unity, no doubt, but it does not indicate that right belief is with majority.

Quote

May Allah Almighty accept your sincere dua. This dua should be on every Muslim's lips. May Allah bless you and your dear family with all that is good - may it be so.

 

May Allah bless you and your family and give you goodness and unite us and give us Jannah and remove any enmity between us. May He unite us how He did unite the Muslims and made them brothers trought our Prophet Muhammad (saws) love and patiance.

And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

Edited by Abu Nur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
5 hours ago, Debate follower said:

In the times of Khilafah Rashideen the blessed family of the blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) were well taken care of. This is well documented in real history and not that of the Zakirs.

Salam this is well documented even in Sunni history books that two of three caliph have beaten lady Fatima (sa) to death which both of them have been responsible for her martyrdom which she has been martyred in state of anger from both of them which clearly her anger has been equal to anger of prophet Muhammad (pbu) therefore their anger is equal to anger of Allah from both of them so therefore it  proves that your fantasy about well treatment of  the blessed family of the blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny) is totally wrong .

 

6 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Dua Saname Quraish – (the idols of Quraish) – Duas.org Idols of Quraish are Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar Hz. Aisha and Hz. Hafsa (may Allah be pleased with them)

This is your & Ghulat  assumption  which in non of valid Shia books it has mentioned .

الصنمان الملعونان هو الفحشاء و المنکر, it means depravity and sin of commission, and nothing else. [5]

https://www.adyannet.com/fa/news/35653

6 hours ago, Debate follower said:

 The prayer of Sanam-e-Quraish (the idols of Quraish) is a very authentic supplication of Amir-ul-Momineen Hazrat Ali bin Abi Talib as and it has been recognised by all renowned historians as such.

She is considered to an enemy to the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), Hz. Ali, Hz. Fatimah, Hz. Hassan, Hz. Hussein, (may Allah be pleased with them)

 

Quote

Regarding the prayer known as "Saname Quraysh" which has been said: Imam Ali (عليه السلام) recited it in the qunoot of night prayers and other prayers, there is no trace in the authentic Shiite narration books.

 The late Majlisi, who narrates this narration in Bihar [i], "Bab al-Qanootat al-Tawilah" from the book of Salah "“باب القنوتات الطویله“ از کتاب الصلاه" and quoting the book "Al-Balad al-Amin wa Jannah al-Aman"",“البلد الامین و جنه الامان“  without mentioning a valid document, suffices only that this The narration is narrated by Ibn Abbas from Imam Ali (عليه السلام). And it is also in the book "Al-Sahifa Al-Alawiya Al-Mubarakah [ii]" so the mentioned narration has no validity with the Shiites.

It is important to note that the weakness of the document does not invalidate the content of the prayer or moral issues. In moral matters and prayers, it is reliable and practical if the content does not contradict the principles and pillars of Islam.

 

Quote

[i]بحارالانوار ج 82 ص 260.

[ii]الصحیفه العلویه المبارکه ص 283.

 

 

Quote

The first source to cite the text of the Sanami Quraysh' prayer is Balad al-Amin and the Misbah

بلد الأمین و مصباحbelonging to Kaf'ami, and al-Muhtadir by Hassan ibn Sulayman Hili, both of whom lived in the ninth century. None of the bearers of this prayer in the ninth century have mentioned any document and have quoted the prayer in a long text 800 years apart. Allama Majlisi also quotes the prayer from Kafami in Bihar and he has not found any older source for prayer.

https://hawzah.net/fa/Question/View/7326/آیا-دعای-“صنمی-قریش“اعتباری-دارد

Khayr al-Din Zirikili, a Sunni biographer mentioned al-Kaf'ami as "a man of literature among Imamiyya scholars".

Quote

In the Views of Others

Mirza 'Abd Allah Afandi, author of Riyad al-'Ulama introduced al-Kaf'ami, the top of his time in Arabic literature.[9]

Al-Shaykh Hurr al-'Amili, author of Wasa'il al-Shi'a considered al-Kaf'ami, a trustworthy, knowledgeable, man of literature, a poet and righteous.[10]

In al-Ghadir, al-'Allama al-Amini mentioned him as Jami' 'ilm wa adab ["Perfect man in knowledge and literature"].[11]

Khayr al-Din Zirikili, a Sunni biographer mentioned al-Kaf'ami as "a man of literature among Imamiyya scholars".

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Ibrahim_b._Ali_al-Kaf'ami

 

Quote

- Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi Memory of God
They ask him: Is the Quraysh's Sanam prayer valid? He says: It has no credit. [2]

- Ayatollah Safi Golpayegani
Regarding the validity of the  Saname Quraysh prayer, he said: "In any case, I have not seen the narration and the prayer that has been recited by the Shiites on the recitation of this prayer by the infallibles, and whoever claims that the Shiites have such a prayer deserves Scholars and elders wrote to refer, such as the book of Sheikh Tusi, Sayyid Ibn Tawus and other two books of prayers.
There are also separate books on prayer in hadith societies, but in them you do not see any name or official of this prayer (Saname Quraysh). The most eloquent and eloquent word that purifies the soul and heart; So recite the prayer that Imam Sajjad taught to Abu Hamza Thamali and the prayer that Imam Ali taught to Kumail and the prayer of Imam Hussein on the day of Arafa and recite the Sahifa Sajjadiyya and other prayers, to know the amount of Shiite scientific and spiritual wealth in prayer. You should know that the preacher and his counterparts who blame the Shiites for the Sanam prayer of the Quraysh, who know their present and day, and impose other correct prayers, are only out of hatred and blame of the Muslims. [3]

- Ayatollah Hosseini Qazvini
Question: What is your opinion about the prayer of "Saname Quraysh"?
Answer: That prayer has no document, its document is completely weak, and it does not make such expressions with the method and manners of the Imams at all. They were completely under pressure. Of course, in the principle of innocence, which is not doubt, "guardianship" can not be achieved without "Tabara/rejection" at all; We have a narration - maybe Sahih Al-Sind is also - those who talk from the Wilayah, but they have not Tabara/rejection, we are free from them! But to name it explicitly is another matter. What we do not have more important than "[Zyarat] Ashura pilgrimage", "Ashura pilgrimage" is the most basic Shiite discussion, but it has no explicitness. [4]

- Ayatollah Bayat Zanjani
Question: Is the Sanam p Quraysh valid and is it recommended to recite it?
Answer: This prayer has been mentioned by Kafa'mi on pages 551 and 552 of Al-Balad Al-Amin and he has mentioned it as a high-ranking and great prayer. He narrated this prayer from Abdullah Ibn Abbas, which was recited by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in Qanoot. The late Allameh Majlisi, in the Bihar alanwar, Volume 85, Book of Prayer, page 260 has quoted from Baladalamin.
Considering the above, we can talk about this prayer from two perspectives:
1) Discussion of a document: According to the document, it is Mursal  narration r, and with the Mursal narration , a ruling or prayer cannot be attributed to Allah  Almighty and the Messenger of Allah  ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and his guardians, unless one accepts the rule of tolerance in the evidences of Sunnah and according to that rule. Give a fatwa that in my opinion is not the end of the rule.
2) Debating argument: The meaning of these Sanmin, which is Deuteronomy, as the late Kafa'mi stated, is depravity and  sin of commission The narrator of this prayer, Sheikh Abu al-Sa'adat As'ad ibn Abd al-Qahir, in his book, Rashih al-Bala'a fi Sharh al-Dua, has said:
الصنمان الملعونان هو الفحشاء و المنکر, it means depravity and sin of commission, and nothing else. [5]

Conclusion: The effect of the Saname Quraysh above all, is to increase hatred between Shiites and Sunnis, which causes moderate Sunnis to turn into extremist Wahhabis; Unfortunately, the leaders of the social groups attributed to the British Shiites, who deliberately seek to create a conflict between the Shiites and the Sunnis, emphasize the recitation of this prayer, while this is precisely to help Britain, Israel and the Saudis.

 

Quote

Conclusion: The effect of the Saname Quraysh above all, is to increase hatred between Shiites and Sunnis, which causes moderate Sunnis to turn into extremist Wahhabis; Unfortunately, the leaders of the social groups attributed to the British Shiites, who deliberately seek to create a conflict between the Shiites and the Sunnis, emphasize the recitation of this prayer, while this is precisely to help Britain, Israel and the Saudis.

https://www.adyannet.com/fa/news/35653

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
7 hours ago, Debate follower said:

4th imam Imam Zeinal-Abidin daughter - Aisha bint Ali Zayn al-Abidin; 6th Imam Jafar as-Sadiq - Aisha bint Jafar as-Sadiq; 7th Imam Musa al-Kadhim - Aisha bint Musa al-Kadhim; - 8th Imam Ali al-Rida - Aisha bint Ali al-Rida; 10th Imam Ali al-Hadi - Aisha bint Ali al-Hadi (may Allah be pleased with them)

These statement  has no documentation  which in similar fashion of claim about naming  sons of Amir al Muminin Imam Ali(عليه السلام) which common name between  daughters of Infallible  Imas has been blessed name of "Fatima" 

 

Example 1: Daughters of Imam Zain Al Abideen

The well known daughters of Imam Zain Al Abideen are Khadija, Fatima, Alehe and Umme Kulsum.

....None named Ayesha.

Source:

- Sawaeq e Muharaqa P:120

- Arj ul Matalib P:444

- (I)Arshad P: 401

thanks to @Abbas. & @Jondab_Azdi

Quote

Someone posted this in a forum : When Imams(a) named their daughter 'Aisha' then Why Shias are discouraged to do so ?

1. Aisha bint Musa al-Kadhim: This was the daughter of the seventh Infallible Imam of the Shia, namely Imam Musa al-Kadhim. The esteemed Shia scholar, Muhammad Taqi al-Tustari, states in Tawarikh al-Nabi wa al-Aal [p. 125-126] that Imam Musa al-Kadhim had seventeen daughters and they were named Fatima al-Kubra, Fatima al-Sughra, Ruqayyah, Ruqayyah al-Sughra, Hakima, Aisha, Zaynad and Khadijah Shaikh Mufid also mentions her in al-Irshad [p.303]. Two other strong Shia references are Umdat al-Talib of Ibn Anba [p. 266 {footnote}] and al-Anwar al-Nu`maniyya of Ni`mat Allah al-Jazaïri [v.1, p.380]. The name of this daughter is also mentioned in Kashf al-Ghumma of Abu al-Hasan al-Irbili [v.2, p.90 and 217].

2. Aisha bint Ali al-Rida: This was the daughter of the eight Infallible Imam of the Shia, namely Imam Ali al-Rida. The famous Shia Qadi, Ibn al-Khashab, said in Mawalid Ahl al-Bayt: �(Imam) Al-Rida had five sons and one daughter. They were Muhammad al-Qani, al-Hasan, Jafar, Ibrahim, al-Hussain and the daughter whose name was Aisha.� This is quoted by Muhammad Taqi al-Tustari in Tawarikh al-Nabi wa al-Aal [p.128].

3. Aisha bint Ali Zayn al-Abidin: This was the daughter of the fourth Infallible Imam of the Shia, namely Imam al-Abidin. This fact is referenced in Kashf al-Ghumma of Abu al-Hasan al-Irbili [v. 2, p. 334].

4. Aisha bint Jafar as-Sadiq: This was the daughter of Imam Jafar as-Sadiq, the sixth of the Infallible Imams of the Shia. This is also recorded in Kashf al-Ghumma of Abu al-Hasan al-Irbili [v. 2, p. 373]).

5. Aisha bint Ali al-Hadi: This was the daughter of the tenth Infallible Imam of the Shia, namely Imam Ali al-Hadi. This is mentioned by Shaikh al-Mufid in al-Irshad [p.334] and also in Kashf al-Ghumma of Abu al-Hasan al-Iribli [v.2, p.334]

6. Aisha bint Jafar ibn Musa al-Kadhim: This was the grand-daughter of the Infallible Imam of the Shia (i.e. the daughter of the Imam�s son, Jafar ibn Musa). This is stated by Abu al-Hasan al-Umari in al-Mujdi [p.109].

 

Quote

I would like to present some examples; none of them state that any of the Imams had daughters named Ayesha.

Example 1: Daughters of Imam Zain Al Abideen

The well known daughters of Imam Zain Al Abideen are Khadija, Fatima, Alehe and Umme Kulsum.

....None named Ayesha.

Source:

- Sawaeq e Muharaqa P:120

- Arj ul Matalib P:444

- (I)Arshad P: 401

Example 2: Daughters of Imam Musa Kazim

Historians state that Imam Musa Kazim had 19 sons and 18 daughters from various wives. None of the daughter's are named Ayesha. Their names are as follows:

- Fatima

- Kubra

- Fatima Sughra

- Aliima

- Ruqayyah Sughra

- Kulsum

- Umm e Jafar

- Labaaba

- Zainab

- Khadija

- Aliya

- Amina

- Hasnaa

- Bareeha

- Umm e Salma

- Memuna

- Umm e Kulsum

- Umme Abiiha ( according to some it was Umm e Abdallah )

....none named Ayesha

Sources:

- (I)Arshad P: 330

- Kashf ul Ghamma P: 109

- A'lam Alwary P: 181

Example 3: Daughters of Imam Jafar Sadiq

The three daughters were:

- Umm e Farwa

- Asma'

- Fatima

......none named Ayesha

Sources:

- Nur al Absaar P:133

Fi-Amanillah

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
8 hours ago, Debate follower said:

After the death of Hz. Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him), Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) was chosen to be the next caliph of Muslims; he was selected by the great companions including Hz. Zubayr and Hz. Talha (may Allah be pleased with them).

He didn't need their approval to be selected as Caliph because he has been legal caliph since demise of prophet Muhammad (pbu) which both of Talha & Zubair has supported from his right since demise of prophet Muhammad (pbu) which they rebeled against only legit caliph Amir al Mumini Imam Ali(عليه السلام) due to their financial corruption during era of three illegal calips & envy of Talha for becoming fourth caliph by support of Ayesha which during life of prophet Muhammad (pbu) , Talha  stated that he will marry with Ayesha after demise of prophet Muhammad(pbu) which due his statement viwes of prophet Muhammad(pbu) have labeled as "Motherss of belivers" in order to no one especially Talha hijacks successorship of prophet Muhammad (pbu)

On 5/8/2022 at 1:38 AM, Debate follower said:

In Hereafter, All relationships are negated if one person enters Jannah and the other is dispatched to Jahanum! I will prove this from the blessed Qur’an later in this post.

“Narrated Abu Maryam Abdullah bin Ziyad Al-Aasadi: When Talha, AzZubair and 'Aisha moved to Basra, 'Ali sent 'Ammar bin Yasir and Hasan bin 'Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. Al-Hasan bin 'Ali was at the top of the pulpit and 'Ammar was below Al-Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard 'Ammar saying, "'Aisha has moved to Al-Busra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her ('Aisha)." Sahih al-Bukhari 7100

Let’s analyse the following statement:

“By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter.”

Hz. 'Ammar bin Yasir (may Allah be pleased with him) is giving testimony by taking oath on Allah Almighty that, as Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) is the wife of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) in this World she is the wife in the Hereafter.

This shows that nobody can marry with viwes of prophet Muhammad (pbu) after his demise/martyrdom in order to stop hijacking his successorship.

8 hours ago, Debate follower said:

The Sunni position is this: Even if their intentions were right, their actions were wrong. They should have given

 

On 5/8/2022 at 1:38 AM, Debate follower said:

Now about wife of Nuh and the wife of Lut: (the verse you had posted above)

“Allah has made an example for those who are an unbelieving people: the wife of Nuh and the wife of Lut. They were married to two of Our servants who were believers, but they betrayed* them and were not helped at all against Allah. They were told: ‘Enter the Fire along with all who enter it.’ (Quran, Surat at-Tahrim: 10)

* “Meaning, in the faith, they did not adhere to the faith sent through their husbands nor accepted their message. Therefore, all the intimate knowledge of their husbands neither helped them nor prevented punishment, hence Allah's statement.”

 

If Aisha got angry at the Prophet - which she did quite often - she would avoid uttering the name of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)&HF). She would not mention the name of Muhammad, but rather used to say: "By the Lord of Abraham" (Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English version, Tradition #7.155 and #8.101, The Chapter of Jealousy and Wiles of a woman).

Once she angrily said to the Messenger of Allah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)&HF):

"It is you who pretend to be a prophet from Allah."

Sunni references:

- Ihyaa al-Ulum, by al-Ghazzali, Chapter 3, v2, p29, The Book on the Etiquettes of Marriage

- Mukashifat al-Qulub, by al-Ghazzali, Chapter 94

Subhana Allah!!! This is the Messenger of Allah, and submitting to his order is obligatory for every believing men and women

Tradition 8.682 of Sahih al-Bukhari is also similar to above and is narrated by Aisha himself. No other person narrated the story of honey in connection with the divorce verses. 

the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)&HF) did not enter to the house of Aisha and Hafsa for one full month as a punishment for their aggressive actions. Considering the compassionate and the gentle personality of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)&HF), such severe punishment and the threat to divorce just for their saying to the Prophet "You smell Maghafir" (as Aisha claimed) does not seem reasonable. Quran confirms that the charges against Hafsa and Aisha was revealing a secret news:

Quote

She said once she addressed to the Messenger of Allah: "I smell Maghafir (a kind of flower having a very bad odor) from you." She said this in order to prevent him from visiting the house of Umm al-Mu'minin Zainab (رضي الله عنه) and eating honey there. This is the claim of Aisha. No other people mentioned this. As I will point out shortly, the story said by Umar regarding the revelation of divorce verses, is much different than the context of what Aisha said.

Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 6.434

Narrated Aisha:

Allah's Apostle used to drink honey in the house of Zainab, the daughter of Jahsh, and would stay there with her. So Hafsa and I agreed secretly that, if he come to either of us, she would say to him "It seems you have eaten Maghafir (a kind of bad-smelling resin), for I smell in you the smell of Maghafir."

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith 7.192

Narrated 'Ubaid bin Umar:

I heard Aisha saying, "The Prophet used to stay for a long while with Zainab Bint Jahsh and drink honey at her house. So Hafsa and I decided that if the Prophet came to anyone of us, she should say him, "I detect the smell of Maghafir (a nasty smelling gum) in you. Have you eaten Maghafir?'... So there was revealed: 'O Prophet ! Why do you ban (for you) that which Allah has made lawful for you . . . If you two (wives of Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah,' (66:1-4) addressing Aisha and Hafsa. 'When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to some of his wives.'(66:3)

Tradition 8.682 of Sahih al-Bukhari is also similar to above and is narrated by Aisha himself. No other person narrated the story of honey in connection with the divorce verses. Please also see the previous article where we mentioned Sahih al-Bukhari, Tradition 7.119. In that tradition which is narrated by Umar, the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)&HF) did not enter to the house of Aisha and Hafsa for one full month as a punishment for their aggressive actions. Considering the compassionate and the gentle personality of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)&HF), such severe punishment and the threat to divorce just for their saying to the Prophet "You smell Maghafir" (as Aisha claimed) does not seem reasonable. Quran confirms that the charges against Hafsa and Aisha was revealing a secret news:

https://www.erfan.ir/english/18172.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 5/8/2022 at 1:43 AM, Debate follower said:

So, I am aware of all the horrible things that have been said and written in Shia hadith, history books and narrated by Shia Zakireen, especially in Muharram, about Hz Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her)

This is not just only saying of "Shia Zakireen" which her enmity with Amiral muminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & third sunni caliph  Uthman clearly has been mentioned in reliable Sunni sources which knowledgeable Shia Zakireen" have mentioned it from your reliable Sunni sources.

8 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Brother, history doesn’t agree with you. Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased be upon her) did not come out to fight Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) for Khilafat or anything else but only to put pressure to bring the culprits of Hz. Uthman’s murderer to justice.

Brother, see Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with you) views are completely at odds with that you have.

 

C) Aisha
Talha and Zubair were not the only collaborators against Uthman. Sunni history tells us that Talha’s cousin, Aisha, was collaborating and campaigning against Uthman as well. The following paragraph also from the History of al-Tabari shows the cooperation of Aisha with Talha in overthrowing Uthman:

Many Sunni historian reported that Once Aisha went to Uthman and asked for her share of inheritance of Prophet (after so many years passed from the death of Prophet). Uthman refrained to give Aisha any money by reminding her that she was one those who testified and encouraged Abu-Bakr to refrain to pay the share of inheritance of Fatimah (sa). So if Fatimah does not have any share of inheritance, then why should she? Aisha became extremely angry at Uthman, and came out saying:"Kill this old fool (Na’thal), for he is unbeliever."

8 hours ago, Debate follower said:

If you were to read history of Iranian population’s forceful and brutal conversion from Overwhelmingly Sunni nation to 12er Shia within matter of few generations. Mullah Baqir Majlisi introduced public cursing of first 3 Khalifs and Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with them). From here on stories were written of their vilest ‘crimes’. From then on, it was prohibited for Shia to name their children by their names. That’s why you will not find any Shia with these names.

This is your favorit wahabi fairy tale which you repeat it everytime after solid refutation of it.:blabla:

Sunni references:

- History of Ibn Athir, v3, p206
- Lisan al-Arab, v14, p141
- al-Iqd al-Farid, v4, p290
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v16, pp 220-223

Quote

While Ibn Abbas was setting out for Mecca, he found Aisha in al-Sulsul (seven miles south of Medina). Aisha said: "O’ Ibn Abbas, I appeal to you by God, to abandon this man (Uthman) and sow doubt about him among the people, for you have been given a sharp tongue. (By the current siege over Uthman) people have shown their understanding, and light is raised to guide them. I have seen Talha has taken the possession of the keys to the public treasuries and storehouses. If he becomes Caliph (after Uthman), he will follow the path of his parental cousin Abu-Bakr.”Ibn Abbas said: "O’ Mother (of believers), if something happens to that man (i.e., Uthman), people would seek asylum only with our companion (namely, ‘Ali).”Aisha replied: "Be quiet! I have no desire to defy or quarrel with you."

Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari, English version, v15, pp 238-239

Many Sunni historian reported that Once Aisha went to Uthman and asked for her share of inheritance of Prophet (after so many years passed from the death of Prophet). Uthman refrained to give Aisha any money by reminding her that she was one those who testified and encouraged Abu-Bakr to refrain to pay the share of inheritance of Fatimah (sa). So if Fatimah does not have any share of inheritance, then why should she? Aisha became extremely angry at Uthman, and came out saying:

"Kill this old fool (Na’thal), for he is unbeliever."

Sunni references:

- History of Ibn Athir, v3, p206
- Lisan al-Arab, v14, p141
- al-Iqd al-Farid, v4, p290
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v16, pp 220-223

Another Sunni historian, al-Baladhuri, in his history (Ansab al-Ashraf) said that when the situation became extremely grave, Uthman ordered Marwan Ibn al-Hakam and Abdurrahman Ibn Attab Ibn Usayd to try to persuade Aisha to stop campaigning against him. They went to her while she was preparing to leave for pilgrimage, and they told her:

"We pray that you stay in Medina, and that Allah may save this man (Uthman) through you.”Aisha said: "I have prepared my means of transportation and vowed to perform the pilgrimage. By God, I shall not honor your request... I wish he (Uthman) was in one of my sacks so that I could carry him. I would then through him into the sea.”

Sunni reference: Ansab al-Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, part 1, v4, p75

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/companions-who-murdered-uthman

One: Aisha’s lead role in killing Uthman
Many of the books of Ahle Sunnah record that Aisha had declared Uthman a Nathal that should be killed. Amongst those texts are the following:

Al Nahaya, Volume 5 page 80
Qamus, page 500 “lughut Nathal” by Firozabadi
Lisan al Arab, Volume 11 Chapter “Lughuth Nathal” page 670
Sharh Nahjul Balagha Ibn al Hadeed Volume 2 page 122
Sheikh al-Mudhira, by Mahmoud Abu Raya, page 170 (foot note)
Al-Imama wa al-Siyasa, Volume 1 page 52
Tarikh Mukhtasar al-Duwal, by Ibn Al-Ebrei, vol 1 page 55
Al-Mahsol, by al-Razi, volume 4 page 343
Tajareb al-Ummam, volume 1 page 419

Quote


Ibn Qutayba in his book Al-Imama wa al-Siyasa records:

Abdullah bin Muslim (ibn Qutayba) from Ibn Abi Maryam and Ibn Ufair – from Ibn Uon – from Mukhol bin Ibrahim and Abu Hamza al-Thumali – from Ali bin al-Hussain who said: ‘… then Ubaid said to her: ‘The first one to incite the people against him was you, and you used to say, ‘kill this Nathal because he has become dissolute.’’’

Ibn Atheer in ‘Al-Nahayah’, Volume 5 page 80 stated:

حديث “اقتلوا نعثلا قتل الله نعثلا” تعني عثمان . وهذا كان منها لما غاضبته وذهبت إلى مكة
The hadith “kill Nathal, may Allah kill Nathal” refers to Uthman. That happened from her when she got angry and went to Makka.

We see that Ibn Atheer who is one of the esteemed Sunni scholars accepted the tradition and hence gave his defense for Aisha i.e. she was in state of anger whilst giving this edict against Uthman!

Al-Razi records in Al-Mahsol, Volume 4 page 343:

فكانت عائشة رضي الله عنها تحرض عليه جهدها وطاقتها وتقول أيها الناس هذا قميص رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لم يبل وقد بليت سنته اقتلوا نعثلا قتل الله نعثلا
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) did her best to incite people against Uthman, and she used to say: ‘Oh people! This is the cloth of the Messenger of Allah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) still not ragged, while his Sunnah is ragged, kill Nathal, may Allah kill Nathal.’

Abul Faraj Ibn al-Ebri records:

ولقد كنت تقولين: اقتلوا نعثلا فقد كفر.
“You used to say: ‘Kill Nathal, verily he has become kafir’”
 Tarikh Mukhtasar al-Duwal, Volume 1 page 55

Renowned is historian and philosopher Ahmad bin Yaqoob Maskuweh (d. 421 A.H) wrote in his book  Tajareb al-Ummam, volume 1 page 419:

و كانت من قبل تشنّع على عثمان، و تحضّ عليه، و تخرج راكبة بغلة رسول الله- صلى الله عليه- و معها قميصه و تقول: – «هذا قميص رسول الله، صلى الله عليه، ما بلى و قد بلى دينه، اقتلوا نعثلا، قتل الله نعثلا.»

 She used to defame Uthman and instigate against him, she used to roam on Allah’s Apostle’s mule holding a cloth and saying: ‘This is Allah’s Apostle’s cloth, it’s not ragged yet while his religion has become ragged, Kill Na’thal, may Allah kill Na’thal’. 

Interestingly Abu Sulaiman seeks to deny that Aisha had ever used such language against Uthman by deviously quoting as follows:

When the situation became extremely grave, Uthman ordered Marwan Ibn al-Hakam and Abdurahman Ibn Attab Ibn Usayd to try to persuade Aisha to stop campaigning against him. They went to her while she was preparing to leave for pilgrimage, and they told her: “We pray that you stay in Medina, and that Allah may save this man (Uthman ) through you.” Aisha said: “I have prepared my means of transportation and vowed to perform the pilgrimage. By God, I shall not honor your request… I wish he (Uthman ) was in one of my sacks so that I could carry him. I would then throw him into the sea.”
 Ansab al-Ashraf, Volume 6 pages 192-193

It is clear that Uthman deemed Aisha as a key figure in the opposition to Uthman which is why we had wanted Marwan to approach her and stop her acts of incitement. If Aisha was innocent of the charges then why did she want to throw Uthman into the sea?

8 hours ago, Debate follower said:

2) By stating that “By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter.” Hz. 'Ammar bin Yasir (may Allah be pleased with him) is extoling and acknowledging the high status of Hz Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) as the wife of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) in this World and in the Hereafter.

Having said that (extoling and acknowledging the high status) Hz. 'Ammar bin Yasir (may Allah be pleased with him) starts the next sentence with ‘BUT’ which means that after having praised her, he is going to fault her. That’s what he stated:

“But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her ('Aisha).

In al-Iqd al-Fareed, Volume 2 page 91:

خرجت عائشة باكيةَ تقول: قُتل عثمان مظلوماً! فقال لها عمار: أنتِ بالأمس تُحرضين عليه، واليومَ تَبْكِين عليه!
Aysha went out weeping and saying: Uthman has been killed as one that is oppressed.’ Ammar bin Yasir replied: ‘Yesterday you were inciting people against him and today you weep for him!’

 

 

Quote

In al-Iqd al-Fareed, Volume 2 page 91:

خرجت عائشة باكيةَ تقول: قُتل عثمان مظلوماً! فقال لها عمار: أنتِ بالأمس تُحرضين عليه، واليومَ تَبْكِين عليه!

Aysha went out weeping and saying: Uthman has been killed as one that is oppressed.’ Ammar bin Yasir replied: ‘Yesterday you were inciting people against him and today you weep for him!’

In Tabaqat al Kubra, Volume 3 page 82 we read the testimony of famous Tabayee namely Masrooq which has also been quoted by the Abu Sulaiman and has declared the tradition as authentic:

“Musrooq said to Aisha, Uthman died because of you, you wrote to people and incited them against him”.

In Iqd al Fareed, Volume 2 page 210 we learn that:

فقال مَرْوان: فقلت لها: هذا عَملك، كتبتِ إلى الناس تأمرينهم بالخروج عليه

“Marwan approached Aisha and said Uthman died because of you, you wrote to people and incited them against him”.

Also in Iqd al Fareed, Volume 2 page 93 we read that:

دخل المُغيرة بن شُعبة على عائشة فقالت: يا أبا عبد الله، لو رأيتني يومَ الجمل وقد نفذتْ النِّصالُ هَوْدجي حتى وصل بعضُها إلى جِلْدي. قال لها المغيرة: وددتُ والله أن بَعضها كان قتلك. قالت: يرحمك الله، ولم تقول هذا؟ قال: لعلَها تكون كَفّارة في سَعْيك على عُثمان.

“Mugheera bin Shuba approached Aisha and she said to him, ‘In Jamal some of the arrows that were fired, nearly pierced my skin.’ Mugheera replied ‘If only an arrow had killed you, that would have acted as penance for the fact that you had incited the people to kill Uthman “.

For those who make attempts to have us believed that Ayesha shared very cordial relations with Uthman, we should remind such people that at one place Ayesha, herself made the following admission:

Ibn Jarir Tabari – Ziyaad bin Ayub – Muassab bin Sulaiman al-Tamimi – Muhammad – Asim bin Kulayb – his father:
During the time of Uthman bin Affan, I had a dream. I saw a man who was ruling the people while he was ill in bed, and a woman was by his head. The people were after him and hastened toward him and had she forbidden them, they would have stopped. But she did not, so they seized and killed him. I used to recount this dream of mine to everyone, whether settled or nomad, and they were surprised and did not know what it meant.
Then when Uthman was killed the news reached us as we were returning from a raid, and my companions said: ‘You dream Kulayb!’. When we got to Basrah, and we had not been there long when someone said: ‘Talha and al-Zubayr are coming and the Mother of the Faithful is with them’. This alarmed the people and they were surprised, but they were claiming to the people that they had only come out of anger over Uthman and in penance over the way they had not supported him. The Mother of the Faithful spoke up: “We became angry at Uthman on your behalf because of three things he did: giving command to youths, expropriating common property and beating (people) with whips and sticks“.

 History of Tabari, English Edition, volume 16, pages 99-10

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/who-killed-uthman/identifying-uthmans-killers.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 5/8/2022 at 1:38 AM, Debate follower said:

Narrated Abu Maryam Abdullah bin Ziyad Al-Aasadi: When Talha, AzZubair and 'Aisha moved to Basra, 'Ali sent 'Ammar bin Yasir and Hasan bin 'Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. Al-Hasan bin 'Ali was at the top of the pulpit and 'Ammar was below Al-Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard 'Ammar saying, "'Aisha has moved to Al-Busra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her ('Aisha)." Sahih al-Bukhari 7100

Basically, Aisha wanted to remove Uthman and slot her relative Talha at the post of caliphate. Her endeavor against Uthman worked but the people chosing Ali bin Abi Talib (عليه السلام) watered down her motive of installing Talha at the position of caliphate, which made her to do some modification in the game plan and the very Uthman who had been an oppressor in her eyes, suddenly became oppressed after she heard the news that people had gone to Ali bin Abi Talib (عليه السلام) instead of Talha.

According to (Ibn Abbas): I said, “O Mother (of the Believers), if some evil were to befall that man [namely Uthman], the people would seek asylum only in with our companion [namely, ‘‘Ali]. She replied, “Be quiet! I have no desire to defy or quarrel with you”.
History of Tabari [English translation] Volume 15 pages 289-239

 

In al-Iqd al-Fareed, Volume 2 page 91:

خرجت عائشة باكيةَ تقول: قُتل عثمان مظلوماً! فقال لها عمار: أنتِ بالأمس تُحرضين عليه، واليومَ تَبْكِين عليه!

Aysha went out weeping and saying: Uthman has been killed as one that is oppressed.’ Ammar bin Yasir replied: ‘Yesterday you were inciting people against him and today you weep for him!’

“Someone asked Muhammad bin Talha who killed Uthman ? He replied that “one third of his death was attributable to Aisha and one third was due to my father Talha”.

In Al Istiab, one of Imam Ali (as)’s speeches is recorded in the following manner:

They (Talha, Zubayr and Aisha) ask the right for something which they themselves abandoned. They ask to avenge the blood, that they themselves shed. They were responsible for the killing of Uthman, to which I was not a party, but now they deny it. I was not a party to Uthman’s killing, and the only culprit party to pay for the killing of Uthman is this rebel group.

Quote

In Al Istiab, one of Imam Ali (as)’s speeches is recorded in the following manner:

“When Ali marched for the battle of Jamal, Ali (رضي الله عنه) said from the pulpit: ‘Surely Allah required Jihad and made it the supporter (of religion) and the life does not become on rightness without it, and there is no (correct) faith without it, and I have been tried by four persons, the most clever and generous man Talha, the most brave man al-Zubair, the most obedient person for the people Aisha, and the fastest person responding to sedition Y’ala bin Umaya. By Allah no one condemned me for any abominable action, nor I did I monopolise the money nor am I inclined towards my desires. They (Talha, Zubayr and Aisha) ask the right for something which they themselves abandoned. They ask to avenge the blood, that they themselves shed. They were responsible for the killing of Uthman, to which I was not a party, but now they deny it. I was not a party to Uthman’s killing, and the only culprit party to pay for the killing of Uthman is this rebel group. They made their oath of allegiance to me and then broke it, and I accept the hujja of Allah on them”.
 Al-Istiab, Volume 1 page 148 Biography of Rafa bin Rafe bin Malik
 Al-Istiab, Volume 1 page 232 Biography of Talha bin Ubaidullah

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/who-killed-uthman/identifying-uthmans-killers.html

 

Quote

“When Uthman was killed, and Talha, Zubair and A’isha went to Basra in order to avenge the blood of ‘Uthman, at that time Marwan also accompanied them. When all the people were running away in battlefield (after Aisha’s forces were defeated), Marwan saw Talha and said: ‘By Allah, he is responsible for killing of Uthman, and indeed he treated Uthman badly. And I need no other testimony after watching all this from my own eyes’. He took an arrow and fired it at Talha, that killed him.”
 Tabaqat Ibn Sa’ad, Volume 5 page 38, Biography of Marwan bin al-Hakam

9 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Hz. Zubayr and Hz. Talha (may Allah be pleased with them) formed a group to take up this matter of justice. They, then persuaded Hz. Aisha to lead this movement as her presence would greatly help in getting the due justice.

 

 

 

Quote

It is little wonder that even Talha’s son admitted the role of his father in killing Uthman. In ‘al Imama wal Siyasa’ page 60 we read that:

“Someone asked Muhammad bin Talha who killed Uthman ? He replied that “one third of his death was attributable to Aisha and one third was due to my father Talha”.

No matter how many attempts Nawasib try to prove that Sahabah particularly Talha shared cordial relations with Uthman the historical evidence recorded by the Sunni Imams proves that the Sahaba such as Talha were not the well wishers of Uthman. We read the testimony of the Imam of Ahle Sunnah Muhammad bin Sireen recorded in Iqd al-Fareed, Volume 2 page 95:

عن إبن سيرين: لم يكن من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أشد على عثمان من طلحة۔

Ibn Sireen said: ‘No one amongst the companions of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) showed more enmity towards Uthman than Talha.’

Similarly, in Tarikh Madina, Volume 4 page 1169 we read the testimony of a Tabayee namely Auf bin Abi Jamila al-Erabi:

حدثنا محمد بن منصور قال، حدثنا جعفر بن سليمان الضبعي، عن عَوف قال: كان أشد الصحابة على عثمان طلحة بن عبيد الله، وإنما أفسدَ عثمان رضي الله عنه بطانة استَبْطَنَها من الطلقاء.

Muhammad bin Mansor – Jaffar bin Sulaiman al-Dab’ie – Auf said: ‘The most offensive Sahabi against Uthman was Talha’

 

Quote
ما كان يوم العيد صلى علي رضي الله عنه بالناس ، فمال الناس إليه وتركوا طلحة ، فجاء طلحة إلى عثمان رضي الله عنه يعتذر ، فقال عثمان : الآن يا إبن الحضرمية ألبت الناس علي حتى إذا غلبك علي على الأمر ، وفاتك ما أردت جئت تعتذر ، لا قبل الله منك.

Abdullah Ibn al-Zubair said: ‘When it was the day of Eid, Ali (رضي الله عنه) lead the prayer for the people, hence the people went to him (Ali) and abandoned Talha. Then Talha went to apologize to Uthman (رضي الله عنه). Uthman said to him: ‘Oh son of Hadramiya! You incited people against me and then, when Ali won against you and you missed what you wanted to achieve, you came to apologize, may Allah not accept from you.’

 

Quote

According to Ahmad bin Mansur – Yahya bin Main – Hisham bin Yousuf the qadi of Sana – Abdullah b Musab bin Thabit bin Abdullah bin al-Zubayr – Musa bin Uqbah – Alqamah bin Waqqas al-Laythi:

When Talhah and al-Zubayr and Aisha set out, I noticed that Talhah preferred to sit alone and would flick his beard against his chest. So I said to him: “Abu Muhammad! I see that you prefer to sit alone and keep flicking your beard against your chest. If there is something you dislike [going on], sit [and talk about it]!” “Alqamah bin Waqqas, “He replied to me, “we were all united against others. But now we have become two mountains of iron, each seeking to [finish] the other. There was indeed some thing I did against Uthman and my penance for it can be nothing less than having my blood spilled in the course of seeking vengeance for his blood.”
 History of Tabari, English Edition, volume 16, page 79

Ahmad bin Mansur: Dahabi said: ‘One of the Thiqah’ (Tarikh al-Islam, v20 p57), Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p47). Yahya bin Main: Dahabi said: ‘The Imam of Muhadithin’ (Al-Kashif, v2 p376), Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p316). Hisham bin Yousuf: Dahabi said: ‘Hujja’ (Tazkirat al-Hufaz, v1 p346), Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p268). Abdullah bin Musab: Imam Al-Albaani said: ‘Hasan al Hadih’ (Silsila Sahiha, v4 p443), Imam Ibn Haban included him in the book of Thiqa narrators (al-Thuqat, v7 p56). Musa bin Uqbah: Dahabi said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-Kashif, v2 p306), Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p226). Alqamah bin Waqqas: Dahabi said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-Kashif, v2 p35), Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah Thabt’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p687).

Talha even deprived Uthman of water

Quote

“Ahmad bin Ibrahim al-Duraqi – Wahb bin Jarir – his father – Yunus bin Yazid al-Eli – al-Zuhari said: “…Al-Zubair and Talha when they got control of the situation, Talha prevented water from being delivered to Uthman”

Ahmad bin Ibrahim al-Duraqi: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p29). Wahb bin Jarir: Dahabi said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-Kashif, v2 p356), Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p291). Jarir bin Zaid: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p158). Yunus bin Yazid al-Eli: Dahabi said: ‘One of the Thabt’ (Al-Kashif, v2 p404), Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p351). Al-Zuhari: Dahabi said: ‘The Hafiz of his time’ (Siar alam alnubala, v5 p326), Ibn Hajar said: ‘There is an agreement about his magnificence’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p133).

Allow us to present this fact from Tarikh al-Tabari:

“Abdurrahman Ibn al-Aswad said: “I constantly saw Ali avoiding (Uthman) and not acting as he formerly had. However, I know that he spoke with Talha when Uthman was under siege, to the effect that water skins should be taken to him. Ali was extremely upset (from Talha) about that until finally water skins were allowed to reach Uthman”
 Tarikh al-Tabari, English version, Volume 15, pages 180-181

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/who-killed-uthman/identifying-uthmans-killers.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
8 hours ago, Debate follower said:

As for Hz. Talhah (may Allah be pleased with) him he was killed by an arrow wound to his ankle. Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) stood in front of his dead body and said, 'May Allah bless you O Aba Muhammad. It is disheartening for me to see you twisted dead under the stars of the sky!' Then he said, 'I complain to Allah! I wish I had died twenty years ago'. It is also reported that Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) said, 'I hope that Talhah, Az-Zubayr and I will be among those Allah described as (what means)

This is total distortion  of speech of Amiral muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) which he has expressed his dislike from killing of people  from Quraysh not Talha.

Abu Muhammad (Talhah) lies here away from his own place. By Allah, I did not like that the Quraysh should lie killed under the stars. I have avenged myself with the descendants of ‘Abd Manaf, but the chief persons of Banu Jumah1 have escaped me. They had stretched their necks towards a matter for which they were not suited, and therefore their necks were broken before they reached the goal.

لَقَدْ أَصْبَحَ أَبُو مُحَمَّد بِهذَا الْمَكَانِ غَرِيباً! أَمَا وَاللهِ لَقَدْ كَنْتُ أَكْرَهُ أَنْ تَكُونَ قُرَيْشٌ قَتْلَى تَحْتَ بُطُونِ الْكَوَاكِبِ! أَدْرَكْتُ وَتْرِي مِنْ بَنِي عَبْدِ مَنَاف، وَأَفْلَتَتْنِي أَعْيَانُ بَنِي جُمَحَ، لَقَدْ أَتْلَعُوا أَعْنَاقَهُمْ إِلَى أَمْر لَمْ يَكُونُوا أَهْلَهُ فَوُقِصُوا دوُنَهُ.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-218-abu-muhammad-talhah-lies

8 hours ago, Debate follower said:

clearly shows that Hz. Talha and Hz. Zubayr (may Allah be pleased with them) were not interested in it but only justice for brutal murder of Hz. Uthman bin Affan (may Allah be pleased with them).

Three: Zubayr’s lead role in killing Uthman

Quote

Umar bin Shabbah – Abu al-Hasan – Abu Amr – Utbah bin al-Mughirah bin al-Akhnas: At Dhat Irq, Saeed bin al-Aas met Marwan bin al-Hakam and his men and asked: “Where are you heading for? Those from whom you seek revenge are on the rumps of camels. Kill them and then go back to your houses! “
 History of Tabari, English edition, Volume 16, page 44

 

Quote
 ونهارَهم، قياماً على أبوابه بالسِّلاحِ، يَمنعونه من كل شيء قَدروا عليه، حتى مَنعوه الماء، فمكث هو ومَن معه خمسين ليلةً؛ وأهلُ مصر قد أسندوا أمرَهم إلى عليّ ومحمد بن أبي بكر وعمّار بن ياسر وطلحة والزُبير، فأمروهم بقتله

“From Nayla bint Farafasa to Mu’awiya bin Abi Sufyan. I was present at the time when Uthman was murdered and I shall narrate the event to you. People of Madina surrounded Uthman’s house and they started guarding the door with their weapons. For fifty nights they did not let anything enter the house. It was Muhammad bin Abu Bakr, Ammar Yasir, Talha and Zubayr that gave the order to the people to kill Uthman”.

In a murder trial, eyewitness testimony to the murder is given the greatest credence, in this case, Uthman’s wife was a direct eyewitness to the whole thing. She said that the Sahaba (residents living in Madina) gave the order to kill Uthman. She had clearly identified Talha and Zubayr as playing a key role in killing her husband. Does it make sense that outside Zubayr is drawing up plans to kill Uthman whilst at the same time he sends his son to protect the khalifa? The role of Zubayr was known to all.

 

Shaykh Kamaluddin Ibn Talha Shafiyee records in Matalib al Seul, page 117 Dhikr Jamal that:

Ali asked Zubayr about the reasons that made him fight against him, to which Zubayr stated, “I want to fight to avenge the murder of Uthman ”. Imam Ali replied, “If you have justice in your heart, you would realize that it was you and your friends that murdered Uthman”.

Quote

 

Imam of Ahle Sunnah al Zuhri also records a similar conversation between Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Zubayr prior to the battle of Jamal that shall shatter the Nawasib who try their best to absolve Talha and Zubayr form the murder of Uthman:

Ahmed bin Zuhayr – his father Abu Khaythama – Wahb bin Jarir bin Hazim – his father – Yunus bin Yazid al-Ayli – al-Zuhri:
“The news, that is of the seventy who were killed with al-Abdi at al-Basrah, reached Ali, so he advanced with 12000 men and came to al-Basrah ……When the forces confronted each other, Ali went out on his horse and called out to al-Zubayr and the two of them confronted each other…..Ali said to al-Zubair: “Are you asking me for compensation for the blood of ‘Uthman, when it was you who killed him? I ask Allah in His power right now to give a hateful punishment to he among us who was the severest in opposing ‘Uthman.” Ali said to Talhah: ” You have brought the Messenger of Allah’s wife to make her fight while you hide your wife at home.”

 History of al-Tabari, English Edition, Volume 16 pages 125-126

 

 Ali then said: “I am sure they will never refrain from coming out and saying, “We seek repayment for Uthman’s blood. By Allah! We know that they are the ones who killed Uthman.“

Quote

The following words of Ali bin Abi Talib (عليه السلام) are also important for those Nawasib who make feeble attempts to absolve Talha and Zubayr form the murder of Uthman. Ibn Jarir Tabari from Muhammd – from Hisham bin Sa’d – from Abu Hilal – from Ibn Abbas:

Five days after the murder of ‘Uthman, I arrived in Medina from Mecca. I went to go and visit Ali but was told that al-Mughirah bin Shubah was with him. So I sat at the entrance for an hour. When Mughirah came out, he greeted me and said, “How long ago did you get here?”. “This past hour, ” I replied. I then went into Ali and greeted him. He asked me, “Did you meet al-Zubayr and Talhah?” ” I met them in al-Nawasif.” “Who was with them?” he asked. “Abu Said bin Harith bin Hisham with a Qurashi force,” I replied. Ali then said: “I am sure they will never refrain from coming out and saying, “We seek repayment for Uthman’s blood. By Allah! We know that they are the ones who killed Uthman.
  History of Tabari, English Edition, Volume 16, page 23

In Iqd al Farid, Page 218, Volume 6, it is written that Marwan told Aisha that “Uthman was killed on account of your letters.

 

The following words of the companions spoken to Zubayr prior to battle of Jamal serve as the final nail in the Nasibi coffin. Ibn Jarir Tabari narrated from Ahmad – from his father – from Wahab bin Jarir bin Hazim – from Younis bin Yazeed – from Zuhri:

I was told that when Talha and al-Zubayr heard that Ali had encamped at Dhu Qar, they left for al-Basrah and took the road to al-Munkadir. Ayesha then heard the dogs barking and asked: ‘What water is this?’. ‘Al-Hawab’ they replied. “We belong to Allah, and to him we return” she exclaimed. “I am she. I heard Messenger of God say in the presence of his wives, ‘ I wish I knew at which of you the dogs of al-Hawab will bark!’” and she wanted to turn back. Abdullah bin al-Zubayr came up to her, and it is said that he told her, “Whoever said that this was al-Hawab was lying”. And then persisted with her until she set off. 

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/who-killed-uthman/identifying-uthmans-killers.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Now, would you treat Hz. Adam and Lady Hawaa’ (may Allah be pleased with them) with the ‘same sense of fairness’ that you do to Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her)?  I doubt it.

Hazrat Adam and Hazrat Hawa did not kill anyone like Hazrat Ayesha so I'm treating it fairly.

 

10 hours ago, Debate follower said:

It is well documented that Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) repented her participation in this unanticipated battle. She never came out against Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased him) or his leadership. Her primary motive was to seek justice for brutal murder of Hz. Uthman bin Affan (may Allah be pleased him).

Her mistake was not that simple like eating fruit she was reason for the battle with Imam Ali (عليه السلام). Repenting after causing huge massacre is just an excuse to protect one's life. And even if we ignore this incident, we cannot forget that she hated Hazrat Ali (عليه السلام) and observed sajdah-e-Shukar on his martyrdom. This shows how real her repentance was.

 

10 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Now, I understand the problem you are having. From very young age, your scholars, Zakirs and your literature has drummed into you the hatred for the select few very close to the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Last evening, I spent a few hours researching the reasons for this hatred.

 I was shocked for the intensity of this hatred. It is manifold more intense than they would have for likes of Abu Jahal, Abu Lahab, Umayyah bin Khalaf, Walid bin Mughira, Al-As bin Wa'il Sahmi, Uqbah Bin Abi Muayt - just to name a few of severest and prominent enemies of Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

The fault is in your thinking bro. You advocate those whose mistakes you yourself have admitted. Am I to forget what atrocities Hazrat Ayesha has done. I cannot give up that bro. The least I can do is to admit who was on the wrong in the history for it forms my faith. I cannot advocate Hazrat Ayesha on whose orders arrows we shot at the funeral of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) because I will be asked about right of Ahlebait (عليه السلام). Hazrat Ayesha left no stone unturned in the enmity of Hazrat Ali (عليه السلام).

10 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Yes, they were criticised and warned. They repented and apologised for their action and were forgiven. End of matter. And they remained wives of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

Lolz, you think repentance is a simple affair and merely saying I'm sorry I was wrong suffices. No brother, for repentance one has to forgo his character and act right until death. Merely saying formula for sorry and then repeating the same enmity makes repentance null and void. Hazrat Ayesha never left her animosity towards Ahlebait till she lived. Therefore, what is value of their repentance. Similarly, those who repented on death bed, their repentance is not acceptable as Firoun also repented at death but his repentance was turned down.

 

10 hours ago, Debate follower said:

All agree she made a mistake in joining the campaign to seek justice for brutal murder of Hz. Uthman bin Affan (may Allah be pleased with him) who was the 3rd Khalif.

Not only this but she also turned down proposals for peace talks with Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and later on was reason of calling men to shoot arrows at the funeral of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام). All of her such mistakes were grave. 

I'm happy to know that you admit her mistake but disagree with you that she has been forgiven for that mistake. If you have proof please bring it.

Edited by Borntowitnesstruth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
9 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Hz. Az-Zubayr (may Allah be pleased with him) left the fighting and went to a valley. Then 'Amr ibn Jurmuz followed him and killed him while he was sleeping. When the news came to 'Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) he said, 'Say to the one who killed Ibn Safiyyah (i.e., az-Zubayr (may Allah be pleased with him): 'You will be a dweller of Hell-fire.'' Then Ibn Jurmuz came carrying the sword of Az-Zubayr (may Allah be pleased with him) Hz. Ali (may Allah be pleased with) him said, 'This sword has many times protected the face of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

Zubayr

Role in the Murder of 'Uthman

As one of the members of the Six-Member Council, al-Zubayr did not vote for 'Uthman. 'Uthman, as the caliph, gave him 600,000 dirhams as a gift to be reconciled with him.[21] However, before long, he provoked people to kill 'Uthman.[22]

Ibn Qutayba al-Dīnawarī, al-Imāma wa l-sīyāsa, vol. 1, p. 47; Balādhurī, Ansāb al-ashrāf, vol. 3, p. 56.

Meeting with Imam Ali (a)
After that two armies faced each other, Imam Ali (a) called al-Zubayr. They met each other between the two front lines of the armies. Imam Ali (a) reminded him of the incident that they had with the Prophet (s): one day the Prophet (s) asked al-Zubayr -in the presence of Ali (a) -: "Do you like Ali?" al-Zubayr said: "Why do not I?" the Prophet (s) said: "How are you when you fight him and you are the oppressor?"[31] Having remembered this, al-Zubayr left the army camp.[32]

 Balādhurī, Ansāb al-ashrāf, vol. 9, p. 430.

Quote

Murder

After that al-Zubayr left the army camp, 'Amr b. Jurmuz and some of his companions chased him and killed him in a place called Wadi l-Siba'.[33] 'Amr went back to Imam 'Ali (a) and said to his doorkeeper, "Go and ask permission for the murderer of al-Zubayr." Imam (a) said: "Let him enter and inform him of the fire of the Hell."[34] (Earlier the Prophet (s) had said that the Fire is the position of the murderer of al-Zubayr).[35] Imam (a) expressed his disapproval of al-Zubayr's murder, and when he saw al-Zubayr's sword, he mentioned his acts of bravery in early battles in Islam and said: "This sword dispelled the anguish of the Prophet's face many times."[36]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Zubayr_b._al-Awwam

Talha

In this battle, Imam Ali (a) characterized Talha as a cheater and characterized him, al-Zubayr, Aisha and Ya'la b. Munya, as the most recalcitrant of his enemies.[38]

 Ibn Aʿtham al-Kūfī, al-Futūḥ, vol. 2, p. 463-464.

Annoying the Prophet (s)

Talha said something offensive about the Prophet (s)'s wives that upset the Prophet (s), about which a Quranic verse was revealed. He said: if the Prophet (s) dies, I will marry his wife, Aisha. Thus the following verse was revealed:[22]

 Balādhurī, Jumal min ansāb al-ashrāf, vol. 10, p. 123; Ibn Kathīr, Tafsīr al-Qurʾān, vol. 6, p. 445.

 

 

"It is not right for you that you should annoy Allah's messenger, or that you should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah's sight an enormity"

— Quran, 33:53

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Talha_b._'Ubayd_Allah

 

 

 

https://www.shiavault.com/books/caliphate-and-imamate/chapters/9-rebellion-against-the-central-caliphate-al-jamal/

Al-Zubayr became frightened when he learned that 'Ammar b. Yasir was participating on the side of 'Ali. He remembered the famous hadith ascribed to the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).A.) stating that 'Ammar was of the righteous and predicting that the rebel party would kill him.[^19]

Quote

In the exchanges before the battle, 'Ali b. Abi Talib took off his armor; approached al-Zubayr and reminded him of an incident in their childhood when the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).A.) predicted that al-Zubayr would unjustly fight 'Ali. Remembering the incident, al-Zubayr swore that he would never fight 'Ali.[^17] His son 'Abd Allah, however, accused him of cowardice. Al-Zubayr changed his mind again and on 'Abd Allah's advice, freed a slave in atonement for his broken oath.[^18]

Al-Zubayr became frightened when he learned that 'Ammar b. Yasir was participating on the side of 'Ali. He remembered the famous hadith ascribed to the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).A.) stating that 'Ammar was of the righteous and predicting that the rebel party would kill him.[^19] He might have recognized that he was merely being used as a pawn for the ambitions of 'A’isha and Talha, who were clearly guiltier of inciting the rebellions against 'Uthman than was 'Ali. To fight a bloody battle against the Prophet's cousin, pitting Muslims against Muslims, under such circumstances must have seemed both foolish and immoral to him. His son 'Abd Allah, in contrast, stood much closer to his aunt 'A’isha and was determined to fight 'Ali in revenge for the blood of 'Uthman.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
12 hours ago, Debate follower said:

And your analogy of ‘argument of shaytaan’ – the cursed is out of place here.

Allow me to give you more relevant example, that of Hz. Adam (peace be upon him).

AND, INDEED, long ago did We impose Our commandment on Adam; but he forgot it, and We found no firmness of purpose in him Verse 115 Surah Ta Ha

And they both ate from it, so that their nakedness became apparent to them, and they began to cover themselves with the leaves from the Garden. Adam disobeyed his Lord and was led astray. Verse 121 Surah Ta Ha

Now, would you treat Hz. Adam and Lady Hawaa’ (may Allah be pleased with them) with the ‘same sense of fairness’ that you do to Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her)?  I doubt it.

You are comparing apples  with oranges because your wrong interpretation  just proves wrong concept of original sin 

because  it can translets in different  forms which Pikthal translation  is based on christian bis which this verse  can be translated  with other words also sin of Aiesha is from unforgivable  sins likewise  Shirk & disobeying prophet (pbu)

Quote

So they both ate of it, and their nakedness became evident to them, and they began to stitch over themselves with the leaves of paradise. Adam disobeyed his Lord, and went amiss. (121)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/20:121

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

@Debate follower, Salamun Alaikum dear brother!!

So many posts once again and I came here for a very short time, unable to read all of your replies. Anyway, I was trying to stay away from this sensitive issue but when you are still discussing with me the issues of Ummul Mo'mineen Aisha and her historical role in Jamal as well as her hatred of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), I can prove to you both from your own books. Lets first see what she said about Uthman:

الرازي - المحصول - الكلام في الأخبار

الباب الثالث : في الخبر الذي يقطع بكونه كذبا - مسألة في عدالة الصحابة

الجزء : ( 4 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 343 / 344 )

- الحكاية الثانية : أن عثمان (ر) آخر ، عن عائشة (ر) بعض أرزاقها فغضبت ، ثم قالت : يا عثمان أكلت أمانتك وضيعت الرعية وسلطت عليهم الأشرار من أهل بيتك والله لولا الصلوات الخمس لمشى إليك أقوام ذوو بصائر يذبحونك كما يذبح الجمل ، فقال عثمان (ر) : { ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا امْرَأَتَ نُوحٍ وَامْرَأَتَ لُوطٍ ( التحريم : 10 ) } فكانت عائشة (ر) تحرض عليه جهدها وطاقتها ، وتقول : أيها الناس هذا قميص رسول الله (ص) لم يبل وقد بليت سنته اقتلوا نعثلا قتل الله نعثلا ، ثم إن عائشة ذهبت إلى مكة فلما قضت حجها وقربت من المدينة أخبرت بقتل عثمان ، فقالت : ثم ماذا ، فقالوا : بايع الناس علي بن أبي طالب ، فقالت عائشة : قتل عثمان والله مظلوما أنا طالبة بدمه والله ليوم من عثمان خير من علي الدهر كله ، فقال لها عبيد بن أم كلاب : ولم تقولين ذلك فوالله ما أظن أن بين السماء والأرض أحدا في هذا اليوم أكرم على الله من علي بن أبي طالب فلم تكرهين ولايته ألم تكوني تحرضين الناس على قتله ، فقلت : اقتلوا النعثل ، ثنا فقد كفر ، فقالت عائشة : لقد قلت ذلك ، ثم رجعت عما قلت : وذلك انكم أسلمتموه حتى إذا جعلتموه في القبضة قتلتموه والله لأطلبن بدمه ، فقال عبيد بن أم كلاب : هذا والله تخليط يا أم المؤمنين.

The whole story has been preserved here, how she disputed with Uthman and how Uthman insulted her by quoting her the verse of Tehreem and what she said in anger after that as well as what she said when she heard about the murder of Uthman and the news that people have pledged allegiance to Imam Ali (عليه السلام). I don't really need to go into further details after this.

Now her بغض for Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is also very apparent, from the very beginning i.e., from the life of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Here is an example:

روى  الإمام أحمد بن حنبل بسنده عن عبيد الله بن عبد الله عباس، عن عائشة قالت: لمّا مرض رسول الله (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) في بيت ميمونة ، فاستأذن نساءه أن يمرض في بيتي ، فأذِنَّ له ، فخرج رسول الله (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) معتمداً على عباس وعلى رجل آخر ورجلاه تخطان في الأرض.

قال عبيد الله: فقال ابن عباس : أتدري من ذلك الرجل؟ هو: علي بن أبي طالب ،  ولكن عائشة لا تطيب لها نفساً  

Ref: المُسند : 6/38 ـ 251 . صحيح النسائي : 1/134 . صحيح ابن ماجة : 117 . مُستدرك الصحيحين : 2/56 . سُنن الدارمي : 1/287 . السُّنن الكبرى للبيهقي : 1/31 وفي 3/80 وفي 8/151 . المُسند : 2/52 . الطبقات الكبرى لابن سعد : 2/ قسم 2 ص19 ـ 28 ـ 29 ، وقال فيه : قال ابن عباس : هو عليٌّ ، إنَّ عائشة لا تَطيب له نفساً بخير . الحديث .
صحيح مسلم : 2:21ط استانبول . رواه بطُرق عديدة .

Here is another:

روى الامام احمد بن حنبل بسنده ، عن النعمان بن بشير ، قال : استأذن أبو بكر ، على رسول الله ( صلّى الله عليه [ وآله ] وسلّم ) ، فسمع صوت عائشة عالياً ، وهي تقول : والله ، لقد عَرفت أنَّ عليَّاً أحبَّ إليك مِن أبي ومِنِّي ـ مَرَّتين أو ثلاث ـ فاستأذن أبو بكر ، فدخل فأهوى إليها .
فقال : يا بنت فلانة ، ألاْ أسمعك ترفعين صوتك على رسول الله ( صلّى الله عليه [ وآله ] وسلّم ) ؟! 

ورواه النسائي ـ أيضاً ـ صاحب الصحيح ، وقال : فأهوى لها لَيلطمها ، وقال لها :
يا بنت فلانة ، أراك ترفعين صوتك على رسول الله ( صلّى الله عليه [ وآله ] وسلّم ) ، فأمسكه رسول الله ( صلّى الله عليه [ وآله ] وسلّم ) ، وخرج أبو بكر مُغضِبا . 

Ref: صحيح البخاري بحاشية السندي : 4/12 طبعة الحلبي

المُسند : 4/275 .

There are also reports present in historical records which shows she expressed joy when listening the news of martyrdom of Imam Ali (عليه السلام). Just avoiding to quote them at the moment.

What I have been focusing are the clear and unanimously accepted narrations which mentions:

مَن أحبَّ عليَّاً ( عليه السلام ) ؛ فقد أحبَّ الله،  ومَن أبغض عليَّاً ( عليه السلام ) ؛ فقد أبغض الله

And

أنَّ حُبَّ عليٍّ ( عليه السلام ) إيمان وبُغضه نفاق 

And

أنَّ حُبَّ عليٍّ ( عليه السلام ) حسنة ويأكل الذنب ، وجواز النار وبراءة منها ، ويُثبِّت القدم ، وبُغضه سيِّئة لا تنفع معها حسنة

And finally brother, as I said the case against her is so strong in historical records that I cannot just accept any defensive argument for her. I know our brothers of Ahlul Sunnah even defend Muawiyah (L) whose hatred agsinst Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was clear. It was Muawiyah (L) who took the fitnah raised by Ummul Mo'mineen Aisha and fought wars against Imam Ali (عليه السلام), he too was demanding what was demanded by Aisha. 

Wassalam!!

Edited by Cool
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Murderers of Uthman

The brief account which we have given of the nature and habits of Bani Umayyah and the descendants of Ali and their respective supporters shows clearly that love for authority and sovereignty, and egotism and selfishness had taken deep roots in the hearts of Bani Umayyah, and their followers, who possessed habits and nature similar to their masters were also as ambitious as them.

As we have stated earlier Bani Umayyah and their supporters opposed the Prophet and Islam, because they possessed the mentality of the chiefs of Quraysh who could not tolerate that Islam should restrain them from their evil acts and destroy their social laws which were no doubt beneficial for the traders and the rich persons, but were death warrants for the poor and the helpless.

Quote

Uthman gave complete freedom to the dignitaries and the curbs which had been imposed by Umar on their greed were removed. These dignitaries became victorious under the leadership of Bani Umayyah which appeared at one time and disappeared at another. The result was that the people had to suffer great hardships and the dignitaries indulged in such nefarious activities as had never been observed during the time of Prophet or during that of Abu Bakr and Umar

 

Quote

Immediatelty on assuming the caliphate Uthman began making the people subservient to Bani Umayyah. He made Bani Umayyah rulers of all Islamic cities and provinces and gave them large tracts of land. He made the property of the Muslims a plaything for the wealthy, and openly supported the capitalist class which had been crushed by Islam earlier. The result was that the dignitaries and powerful persons grew much richer and the common men became their slaves.

Talha bin Ubaidallah erected a lofty palace in Kufa which became known amongst the Arabs, after three centuries, as Dar al-Talhatain. As regards his income Mas`udi has said in Murooj al-Zahab that only from Iraq he received daily grains worth a thousand gold coins, rather more than that. An equivalent amount was received from Kanas. The income from Sirat and its suburbs was even larger. In Madina he built a magnificent palace which resembled that of Uthman.

Quote

Dr. Taha Husayn says: “The first trouble which arose on account of this practice was that capitalism spread in Iraq and other provinces on a large scale. This practice benefited those who were big capitalists and could purchase the property of the persons belonging to less priviledged class. Thus Talha and Marwan bin Hakam purchased large properties. From then onwards began the practice of purchase and sale, mortgage, lease etc. not only in Hijaz and Iraq but also in other Arab countries and conquered areas, and the large estates came into existence. In the circumstances all sorts of people got engaged in making money as a result of which a class of rich rulers came into existence. It was more distinguished than the class which possessed ancestral estates.

https://www.al-islam.org/voice-human-justice-sautul-adalatil-insaniyah-george-jordac/murderers-uthman

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member


Ali was not very keen to become a caliph. He assisted Abu Bakr and Umar as and when they were faced with a difficulty. 2 Whenever the Islamic caliphate was confronted with a problem Ali solved it.

He showed kindness even to Uthman and never complained against Uthman's attaining to the caliphate instead of himself. The only thing for which he was anxious was the establishment of truth and justice. People beseeched him to accept the caliphate but he did not evince any interest in it. History shows and his own remarks are also available to the effect that.

Quote

when, after the assassination of Uthman, the people came to him collectively and requested him to assume the caliphate he said: “Leave me and find out someone else for the job. If you leave me alone I shall be a member of the society like you and shall be more attentive and obedient than you to the person whom you select as the caliph. I shall be more useful for you in the capacity of an adviser than in that of a caliph”.

On that day Ali was not agreeable to accept the caliphate as with his far-sightedness he could see up to the last end of the future. If he was a claimant of the caliphate earlier, it was not because he desired to become a ruler. On the contrary what he desired was that Muslims should develop within themselves those morals and virtues which the Prophet wanted to inculcate in them. And if he declined to accept that office at that stage (i.e. after the assassination of Uthman) it was because owing to the policies of the former rulers the habits of the Muslims had been spoilt and their way of thinking had changed.

The kingdom which was established with the name of Islamic state had been moulded into worldly authority and carried the signs of the despotism of Kaiser and Kisra. Ali's object differed from the desires of the people. Neither Ali could condescend to the wishes of the people, nor could people agree to Ali's achieving the ends he had in view. He himself draws the picture of that period in these words:

“The time is extremely incompatible and disagreeable. In these days a righteous person is considered to be wicked and the refractoriness of the tyrant is on the increase. This is so because the sky is covered with dark clouds and the signs of the paths have been obliterated. The people are involved in doubts and sensuality. They have ears but they are deaf. They have eyes but they are blind. They are neither steadfast in the battlefield nor reliable in difficult circumstances”.

Ali knew very well that if he accepted the request of the people and assumed the responsibilities of the office of caliphate they would not tolerate the manner in which he would run the administration and would not obey his orders unless he was harsh to them.

These were the conditions which Ali had to face after the assassination of Uthman. The dignitaries as well as the common people gathered outside the door of his house again and again and insisted upon his accepting the oath of allegiance from them. However, notwithstanding the fact that he entertained very good wishes for the people in his heart he was reluctant to accept the oath of allegiance from them. There was, however, one thing which obliged him to think of accepting their request. The Muslims were too much insisting upon his accepting that office, which meant that a responsibility was being placed on them to guide those, who were in need of reformation and guidance from him. Furthermore, at that time social equity and justice were in danger. Persons in authority were encroaching upon the rights of the weak, and the life, property, and honour of the common man did not carry any value.

 

 

Ali could not tolerate that he should sit quietly in his house when the poor citizens were being subjected to oppression. A brave and steadfast person like Ali could not let the Muslims fall a prey to the atrocities of the wolves of Bani Umayyah and remain silent. If he had not come to the rescue of the Muslim at that difficult moment he would have been treated to be a coward and not the brave and valiant person as he is known in history.

He himself says: “I was worried and alarmed lest the foolish and wicked persons should become the rulers of this nation and make the property of God their plaything and the creatures of God their slaves and fight with the righteous and make the tyrants their helpers”.

For these reasons he considered it obligatory for himself to accept the oath of allegiance although many other righteous persons found themselves incapable of bearing the burden of caliphate

Quote

Ali hated sequestered life. Except when it was possible to serve the people by remaining in seclusion it was impossible for him to spend his time in retirement. A person who neglects serving the creatures of God inspite of his being in a position to do so spoils his faith as well as his world. Ali accepted the caliphate with firm determination and considered it in the interests of the Muslims that he should assume that office.

In order to understand the nature of Ali's administration and his economic and financial policies it is necessary to learn how Ali himself has explained the caliphate and mastership, what position caliphate enjoyed in his eyes from the religious point of view, and what benefits it carried in its lap.

While addressing the people at the time of taking the oath of allegiance from them, Ali said to them: “O People! I am one of you. I enjoy the same rights which you enjoy. My responsibilities are also the same as yours. Nothing can invalidate truth. (i.e. a ruler or caliph cannot change the commands of God”.

In another sermon he said: “I swear by God that in the first instance I myself obey those commands of God which I invite you to obey and I myself refrain first from those things, from which I ask you to refrain”.

Quote

On this basis the ruler and caliph is not to be obeyed in his personal capacity. It is necessary to obey him because he enforces equity and justice and the laws of the Sbari'ah. The caliphate does not entitle the ruler and the caliph to appropriate to himself as much of the property of the public treasury as he likes, and to spend it himself or give it to his friends, associates and kinsmen. On the contrary the object of the institution of caliphate is that justice should be administered. The ruler should mete out equal treatment to everyone, should regard the efforts of a person who propagates the Divine religion and serves the public, should prohibit hoarding, and prevent oppression, and should not deviate from truth in any circumstances. He should not abandon his program even though the wicked and cruel persons dislike his just conduct and may be after his life. It is also his duty to acquaint the people with the rules of justice and to prevent their deviation from it.

https://www.al-islam.org/voice-human-justice-sautul-adalatil-insaniyah-george-jordac/ruler-one-people

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

He showed kindness even to Uthman and never complained against Uthman's attaining to the caliphate instead of himself. The only thing for which he was anxious was the establishment of truth and justice. People beseeched him to accept the caliphate but he did not evince any interest in it. History shows and his own remarks are also available to the effect that.

Quote

Brother Ashvadange, I believe that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) complained about it in Khutba Shaqshaqiya whereby he (عليه السلام) also stated the wrong acts of previous khulfa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member
On 5/24/2022 at 7:53 AM, Cool said:

@Debate follower, Salamun Alaikum dear brother!!

So many posts once again and I came here for a very short time, unable to read all of your replies. Anyway, I was trying to stay away from this sensitive issue but when you are still discussing with me the issues of Ummul Mo'mineen Aisha and her historical role in Jamal as well as her hatred of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), I can prove to you both from your own books. Lets first see what she said about Uthman:

Wa’ alaykum salaam dear brother, thanks for your response. I didn’t expect you to read all my replies.  I find myself entangled with 3 to 4 persons and so many issues are raised at the same time.  I don’t like to ‘duck’ any point raised and make point to address all of them. I want to leave it as a record for whoever reads later - as long it is on this site.

Indeed, this is sensitive issue as we are discussing the Noble Family of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), who were very dear to him and he spent his homely/private life with them.

Certainly, you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much Verse 21 Surah al-Ahzab

Every part of the Blessed Prophet’s (peace and blessings be upon him) life was an example for us mere mortals to follow thus – his Sunnah. Every incident in hid Blessed life and how he dealt with it has lesson for us.

That’s why I respect very much and appreciate you’re your approach. Your hesitancy not to be ‘too blunt’ reveals your love for the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Your reward for this is with Allah Almighty, in sha Allah.

I hope that you have not failed to notice that I too on my part have refrained to bring about controversial narrations from your books to score points. The main reason I am posting here is to put forward Sunni point of view. I am not well versed in Shia – Sunni issues so, I do thorough research before I post.

On 5/24/2022 at 7:53 AM, Cool said:

الرازي - المحصول - الكلام في الأخبار

الباب الثالث : في الخبر الذي يقطع بكونه كذبا - مسألة في عدالة الصحابة

الجزء : ( 4 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 343 / 344 )

- الحكاية الثانية : أن عثمان (ر) آخر ، عن عائشة (ر) بعض أرزاقها فغضبت ، ثم قالت : يا عثمان أكلت أمانتك وضيعت الرعية وسلطت عليهم الأشرار من أهل بيتك والله لولا الصلوات الخمس لمشى إليك أقوام ذوو بصائر يذبحونك كما يذبح الجمل ، فقال عثمان (ر) : { ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا امْرَأَتَ نُوحٍ وَامْرَأَتَ لُوطٍ ( التحريم : 10 ) } فكانت عائشة (ر) تحرض عليه جهدها وطاقتها ، وتقول : أيها الناس هذا قميص رسول الله (ص) لم يبل وقد بليت سنته اقتلوا نعثلا قتل الله نعثلا ، ثم إن عائشة ذهبت إلى مكة فلما قضت حجها وقربت من المدينة أخبرت بقتل عثمان ، فقالت : ثم ماذا ، فقالوا : بايع الناس علي بن أبي طالب ، فقالت عائشة : قتل عثمان والله مظلوما أنا طالبة بدمه والله ليوم من عثمان خير من علي الدهر كله ، فقال لها عبيد بن أم كلاب : ولم تقولين ذلك فوالله ما أظن أن بين السماء والأرض أحدا في هذا اليوم أكرم على الله من علي بن أبي طالب فلم تكرهين ولايته ألم تكوني تحرضين الناس على قتله ، فقلت : اقتلوا النعثل ، ثنا فقد كفر ، فقالت عائشة : لقد قلت ذلك ، ثم رجعت عما قلت : وذلك انكم أسلمتموه حتى إذا جعلتموه في القبضة قتلتموه والله لأطلبن بدمه ، فقال عبيد بن أم كلاب : هذا والله تخليط يا أم المؤمنين.

The whole story has been preserved here, how she disputed with Uthman and how Uthman insulted her by quoting her the verse of Tehreem and what she said in anger after that as well as what she said when she heard about the murder of Uthman and the news that people have pledged allegiance to Imam Ali (عليه السلام). I don't really need to go into further details after this.

Imam Fakhr al-Din al-Razi (Rahimullah) was a polymath, a preeminent Islamic scholar in the fields of medicine, chemistry, physics, astronomy, cosmology, literature, theology, ontology, philosophy, history and jurisprudence. He claimed descent from first caliph Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him)”

Dear brother, Imam Fakhr al-Din al-Razi (Rahimullah) was a great Sunni scholar. He is NOT stating above as fact but what that is ‘in news’. – This is clearly suggested by the heading you posted:    الرازي - المحصول - الكلام في الأخبار

Which can be translated roughly as:  Harvested or yielded or gathered from ‘talk in the news’

He is not stating this as fact but states: The second “storyالحكاية الثانية He is simply stating what the “stories are
in news” and this one was the second story.

History is History and everyone sticks to their version as ‘the gospel truth’. History is not as authentic as the Sahih Hadith.  Al-Kafi has at best contains 39% Sahih hadith as per Shia scholars. Now you can guess the standard of Shia history books. Overwhelming material is from ghulaat sources which won’t stand a chance to establish authenticity.

Dear brother, debating with Shias I have come to realise that as Muslims, Shias and Sunnis agree in Fundamentals of Islam in Oneness of Allah Almighty in Absolute sense, the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as the Final Messenger of Allah Almighty. And the Noble Qur’an as the final Message (Book) from Allah Almighty. But we differ tremendously on sources of Hadith and History – at times completely as variance to each other!!!!!

See the following case of Syed Raza Rizvi who was very active in Shia/Sunni debates in the UK.  But he decided to go back and study his own history books with authentic sources.

Surprise, surprise he had complete change of heart. He agrees that many narrations in Shia history books are ‘made-up’ and most of the narrations are from Ghulāt - ‘Shia exaggerators’ sources. He also agrees that most history was modified after takeover of Iran by Safavids. Mullah Majlisi incorporated ghulaat literature to mainstrean12er Shia literature.

If one was to read Seerah of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) from the Shia sources – everything is so negative. It seems that he was surrounded by conspiracies throughout his Blessed life initiated by those who he chose to be with. Every step in his Blessed life he was always looking over his shoulder for any treacherous action against him from those were most close to him.

 Let’s Chat #1: Syed Raza Rizvi Speaks on Sectarian Bias and Polemics – if you have time, you can listen to his talk. H

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73oi3zWWMVk

And - Imam Ali's words on Aisha - Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Kamal al-Husayni al-Haydari
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBhEKbFpPjo

And interesting debate on the above video here on Shiachat. - Imam Ali's words on Aisha

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235015869-imam-ali-treats-aisha-with-respect-and-asks-us-to/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 5/24/2022 at 7:53 AM, Cool said:

Now her بغض for Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is also very apparent, from the very beginning i.e., from the life of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Here is an example:

روى  الإمام أحمد بن حنبل بسنده عن عبيد الله بن عبد الله عباس، عن عائشة قالت: لمّا مرض رسول الله (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) في بيت ميمونة ، فاستأذن نساءه أن يمرض في بيتي ، فأذِنَّ له ، فخرج رسول الله (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) معتمداً على عباس وعلى رجل آخر ورجلاه تخطان في الأرض.

قال عبيد الله: فقال ابن عباس : أتدري من ذلك الرجل؟ هو: علي بن أبي طالب ،  ولكن عائشة لا تطيب لها نفساً  

Ref: المُسند : 6/38 ـ 251 . صحيح النسائي : 1/134 . صحيح ابن ماجة : 117 . مُستدرك الصحيحين : 2/56 . سُنن الدارمي : 1/287 . السُّنن الكبرى للبيهقي : 1/31 وفي 3/80 وفي 8/151 . المُسند : 2/52 . الطبقات الكبرى لابن سعد : 2/ قسم 2 ص19 ـ 28 ـ 29 ، وقال فيه : قال ابن عباس : هو عليٌّ ، إنَّ عائشة لا تَطيب له نفساً بخير . الحديث .
صحيح مسلم : 2:21ط استانبول . رواه بطُرق عديدة .

Here is another:

روى الامام احمد بن حنبل بسنده ، عن النعمان بن بشير ، قال : استأذن أبو بكر ، على رسول الله ( صلّى الله عليه [ وآله ] وسلّم ) ، فسمع صوت عائشة عالياً ، وهي تقول : والله ، لقد عَرفت أنَّ عليَّاً أحبَّ إليك مِن أبي ومِنِّي ـ مَرَّتين أو ثلاث ـ فاستأذن أبو بكر ، فدخل فأهوى إليها .
فقال : يا بنت فلانة ، ألاْ أسمعك ترفعين صوتك على رسول الله ( صلّى الله عليه [ وآله ] وسلّم ) ؟! 

ورواه النسائي ـ أيضاً ـ صاحب الصحيح ، وقال : فأهوى لها لَيلطمها ، وقال لها :
يا بنت فلانة ، أراك ترفعين صوتك على رسول الله ( صلّى الله عليه [ وآله ] وسلّم ) ، فأمسكه رسول الله ( صلّى الله عليه [ وآله ] وسلّم ) ، وخرج أبو بكر مُغضِبا . 

Ref: صحيح البخاري بحاشية السندي : 4/12 طبعة الحلبي

المُسند : 4/275 .

It is well known that Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) being wife of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was very jealous of anyone who was around him. She even herself expressed that she felt very jealous of Hz. Khadijah (may Allah be pleased with her) whenever the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) fondly remembered her. This is very natural human feeling especially when one is married to the Best of Creation of Allah Almighty.

It is only in Shia literature that we find Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) hated Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him). Certainly, she didn’t appreciate that he didn’t defend her as Hz. Usama bin Zaid (may Allah be pleased with him) had done.

On the incident of Ifk

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) called `Ali bin Abi Talib and Usama bin Zaid to ask and consult them about divorcing me. Usama bin Zaid said what he knew of my innocence, and the respect he preserved in himself for me. Usama said, '(O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)!) She is your wife and we do not know anything except good about her.' `Ali bin Abi Talib said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Allah does not put you in difficulty and there are plenty of women other than she, yet, ask the maid-servant who will tell you the truth.'  https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4141

Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) had no malice in what he suggested to the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as he was concerned more with consoling the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

I got the following from the Net just to show that Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) had great respect for Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him).

‘Abdul-Razzaq from al-Awza’ee from Makhoul from he who asked ‘Aisha (رضي الله عنه) about the clothes that a woman wears in prayer? she said: ask ‘Ali then come back and tell me what he answers, so he went and asked him and ‘Ali replied: “She can pray in a shift that reaches down and covers the top of her feet.” then he returned and told ‘Aisha and she said: He speaks truth. (Musannaf ‘Abdul-Razzaq).

Shareeh Bin Hane’e says, I asked Aysha about washing (the feet in ablution). She said, “Go to Ali ibn abi Talib, he is more knowledgeable than I.” So, I went to him and asked him about the wash. Ali said, “The messenger of Allah used to order us to wash our feet at day and night, and the traveller should do it three times.” (The Virtues of the Companions, by Imam Ahmed, vol.2, #1199, p.702)

Shurayh bin Hanii said: I came to ‘Aisha (رضي الله عنه) asking her about wiping on the Khufayn(socks) so she said: You have to seek ‘Ali Ibn abi Talib and ask him for he used to travel a lot with the Prophet SAWS, ‘Ali then said: “The Prophet SAWS allowed three days and three nights for the traveller and one day and one night for the resident.”

Aisha (may God be pleased with her) said regarding Ali(ra): “He is the most knowledgeable about the Sunnah among those who remain,” (Abu Nu`aym, Hilya al-Awliya’ 1:100-128 #4; al-Dhahabi, Siyar A`lam al-Nubala’ 1/2:615-660 #5.)

Also, Hz. Aisha’s (may Allah be pleased with her) hadith about Hz. Fatimah (may Allah be pleased with her)

Lady Fatima's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) high status in the words of Aisha, the wife of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)

Aisha reported: I have not seen anyone more closely resemble the disposition, mannerism, and characteristics of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, than his daughter Fatimah, may Allah honour her countenance. If she entered his home, the Prophet would stand for her, take her by the hand, kiss her, and seat her in his place. If the Prophet entered her home, she would stand for him, take him by the hand, kiss him, and seat him in her place.  Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 5217

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/7330/Lady-Fatima-s-(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)-high-status-in-the-words-of-Aisha-the-wife

– When it suits, Shias won’t mind using her words when they sound good to the ears!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 5/24/2022 at 7:53 AM, Cool said:

There are also reports present in historical records which shows she expressed joy when listening the news of martyrdom of Imam Ali (عليه السلام). Just avoiding to quote them at the moment.

What I have been focusing are the clear and unanimously accepted narrations which mentions:

مَن أحبَّ عليَّاً ( عليه السلام ) ؛ فقد أحبَّ الله،  ومَن أبغض عليَّاً ( عليه السلام ) ؛ فقد أبغض الله

And

أنَّ حُبَّ عليٍّ ( عليه السلام ) إيمان وبُغضه نفاق 

And

أنَّ حُبَّ عليٍّ ( عليه السلام ) حسنة ويأكل الذنب ، وجواز النار وبراءة منها ، ويُثبِّت القدم ، وبُغضه سيِّئة لا تنفع معها حسنة

Dear brother, the above will be found in Shia related ONLY literature or in books where historians include all the ‘stories’ that were in ‘news at that particular time irrespective of being true or not.

Read the following:

When Ā’ishah heard about the martyrdom of ‘Alī, she prayed for him and said, “Have you seen him (‘Alī) saying other than this (i.e., Allāh & His Messenger spoke the truth)? I said, ‘By Allāh, No.’ She (Ā’ishah) said, ‘Yes Allāh and His Messenger spoke the truth, May Allāh have mercy upon ‘Alī, for whenever he would like something he would say’, ‘Allāh and His Messenger have declared the truth’.” [Sahīh al-Musnad min Ahadīth al-Fitān by Shaykh Mustafa al-Adāwī, page 150-151] Grading: Isnād is Hasan (Strong).

 

Shias normally site the following hadith to prove that Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) hated Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) as she didn’t name him.

When the ailment of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) became aggravated and his disease became severe, he asked his wives to permit him to be nursed (treated) in my house. So they gave him the permission. Then the Prophet came (to my house) with the support of two men, and his legs were dragging on the ground, between `Abbas, and another man." 'Ubaidullah (the sub narrator) said, "I informed `Abdullah bin `Abbas of what `Aisha said. Ibn `Abbas said: 'Do you know who was the other man?' I replied in the negative. Ibn `Abbas said, 'He was `Ali (bin Abi Talib) …..." `Sahih al-Bukhari 198

Have a look the following Sermon from Nahjul Balagha

Note Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) avoids the name and uses the word meaning ‘So and So!

Would now dispute that he hated Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her)?

As regards a certain woman, she is in the grip of womanly views, and malice is boiling in her bosom like the furnace of the blacksmith. If she were called upon to deal with others as she is dealing with me, she would not have done it. (As for me), even hereafter she will be allowed her original respect, while the reckoning (of her misdeeds) is an obligation on Allah. Nahjul Balagha Sermon 156

وَأَمَّا فُلاَنَةُ، فَأَدْرَكَهَا رَأْيُ الْنِّسَاءِ، وَضِغْنٌ غَلاَ فِي صَدْرِهَا كَمِرْجَلِ الْقَيْنِ، وَلَوْ دُعِيَتْ لِتَنَالَ مِنْ غَيْرِي مَا أَتَتْ إِلَيَّ، لَمْ تَفْعَلْ، وَلَهَا بَعْدُ حُرْمَتُهَا الاْولَى، وَالْحِسَابُ عَلَى اللهِ

 My dear respected brother, we all must heed Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) words and deeds – Note that he:

1) says even hereafter she will be allowed her original respect

2) while the reckoning (of her misdeeds) is an obligation on Allah (meaning that we should leave the judgment to Allah Almighty and not pass our own judgments).

Clearly, He is emphasizing that, (even with her misdeeds) Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) should be given respect she deserves and, in the Hereafter, she will be allowed her original respect. And that only Allah Almighty has the Right to Judge her and no one else.

But do Shias care to follow his commands? Sadly no, it is so clear from reading what’s uttered or written on Shia Websites.

On 5/24/2022 at 7:53 AM, Cool said:

And finally brother, as I said the case against her is so strong in historical records that I cannot just accept any defensive argument for her. I know our brothers of Ahlul Sunnah even defend Muawiyah (L) whose hatred agsinst Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was clear. It was Muawiyah (L) who took the fitnah raised by Ummul Mo'mineen Aisha and fought wars against Imam Ali (عليه السلام), he too was demanding what was demanded by Aisha. 

Wassalam!!

For last few days I have been reading Shia literature/material about Shia attitude towards Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her). I do understand your position, that’s what you have been taught all your life. It seems it is same as asking Sunnis to respect and love personalities like Abu Jahl, Abu Lahab, Walid bin Mughira, Umayyah bin Khalaf etc. as we have been brought up disliking these personalities. But we are never obsessed in our disliking of them.

I have yet to see Shias passionately cursing these people ritually as they do to those very close to the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)!!!!

Brother, this will be my last post in this thread, I have surprised myself with 100 plus posts. I would like thank you for very polite discussion – shows your class.

May Allah Almighty bless you and your dear family with the best of both worlds – May it be so with Allah Almighty’s Grace

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
On 6/4/2022 at 12:18 AM, Debate follower said:

Would now dispute that he hated Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her)?

As regards a certain woman, she is in the grip of womanly views, and malice is boiling in her bosom like the furnace of the blacksmith. If she were called upon to deal with others as she is dealing with me, she would not have done it. (As for me), even hereafter she will be allowed her original respect, while the reckoning (of her misdeeds) is an obligation on Allah. Nahjul Balagha Sermon 156

وَأَمَّا فُلاَنَةُ، فَأَدْرَكَهَا رَأْيُ الْنِّسَاءِ، وَضِغْنٌ غَلاَ فِي صَدْرِهَا كَمِرْجَلِ الْقَيْنِ، وَلَوْ دُعِيَتْ لِتَنَالَ مِنْ غَيْرِي مَا أَتَتْ إِلَيَّ، لَمْ تَفْعَلْ، وَلَهَا بَعْدُ حُرْمَتُهَا الاْولَى، وَالْحِسَابُ عَلَى اللهِ

 My dear respected brother, we all must heed Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) words and deeds – Note that he:

1) says even hereafter she will be allowed her original respect

2) while the reckoning (of her misdeeds) is an obligation on Allah (meaning that we should leave the judgment to Allah Almighty and not pass our own judgments).

Clearly, He is emphasizing that, (even with her misdeeds) Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) should be given respect she deserves and, in the Hereafter, she will be allowed her original respect. And that only Allah Almighty has the Right to Judge her and no one else.

Thanks for your replies in this thread. I like to explain the words of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) for its true meaning. We already know the hadith thaqlyn confirms that the progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is not separated from quran.

Thus I like to quote the verses to derive the true meaning of any words as presented by yourself :

1. The verse of quran instructs the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to remain in their houses:

وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَىٰ ۖ وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ

And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore (33:33)

The instruction has not been fulfilled by the mentioned wife of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and she came out to fight his son in law and it is an established fact recorded in the history.

2.   The following two verses of quran further explain the award, reward or reprimand for the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم):

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُل لِّأَزْوَاجِكَ إِن كُنتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتَهَا فَتَعَالَيْنَ أُمَتِّعْكُنَّ وَأُسَرِّحْكُنَّ سَرَاحًا جَمِيلًا

O Prophet! say to your wives: If you desire this world's life and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing (33:28)

وَمَن يَقْنُتْ مِنكُنَّ لِلَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَتَعْمَلْ صَالِحًا نُّؤْتِهَا أَجْرَهَا مَرَّتَيْنِ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهَا رِزْقًا كَرِيمًا

And whoever of you is obedient to Allah and His Messenger and does good, We will give to her her reward doubly, and We have prepared for her an honorable sustenance. (33:31)

يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ مَن يَأْتِ مِنكُنَّ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ ۚ وَكَانَ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرًا

O wives of the prophet! whoever of you commits an open indecency, the punishment shall be increased to her doubly; and this is easy to Allah. (33:30)

3.   Thus in the ligth of above verses we are confirmed that here is no such guarantee to any of the wife that she will be allowed her original respect. when she did not follow the clear instruction given to her.

Finally Allah Almighty has the Right to Judge her and it has been placed in clear verses of quran for the judgment of all the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). We certainly regards the verses of quran and any wife in the light of these verses of quran upto the extent as mentioned therein only.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 6/3/2022 at 11:44 PM, Debate follower said:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) called `Ali bin Abi Talib and Usama bin Zaid to ask and consult them about divorcing me. Usama bin Zaid said what he knew of my innocence, and the respect he preserved in himself for me. Usama said, '(O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)!) She is your wife and we do not know anything except good about her.' `Ali bin Abi Talib said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Allah does not put you in difficulty and there are plenty of women other than she, yet, ask the maid-servant who will tell you the truth.'  https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4141

Salam

At first this narration  has been narrated  by Aisha  herself  for forging a merit for herselef which due that it has been  it's a weak (Dhaif) in similar fashion  Usama bin Zaid (رضي الله عنه) at time of Ifk incident has been an immature boy which hasn't reached to age of puberty so he has not been qualified to give advice for these matters which all of three caliphs have refused to join an army which he has been appointed  as it's commander by prophet  Muhammad (pbu) right before  his demise because  the three caliphs in opposition  to order of prophet  Muhammad (pbu) have not recognized  him as their commander because  in their viewpoint he has been too young to be their commander also Usama bin Zaid (رضي الله عنه) has been from few people  who have abstained to give allegiance  with Amir Almuminin Imam Ali(عليه السلام) as their caliph in similar fashion  of Abdullah  ibn Umar nevertheless later  he has made allegiance  with Amir Almuminin Imam Ali(عليه السلام) in opposition  to  Abdullah  ibn Umar  so therefore this Hadith is void.

it was very unlikely that the Prophet (s) would seek consultation with an extremely young Usama about such an important issue.

Quote

In some of the narrations of Event of Ifk, the story of allegation on Aisha, it is said that the Prophet (s) in connection with this accusation sought the counsel of both Ali (a) and Usama, and Usama in contrast to Imam Ali (a), gave a positive response and mentioned her in good terms.[12] However, as this narration itself shows that this incident occurred after the Battle of Banu l-Mustaliq in Ramadan of 5/627,[13] and it was very unlikely that the Prophet (s) would seek consultation with an extremely young Usama about such an important issue.

According to historical sources, among those who were required to join this army were such figures as Abu BakrUmar b. al-KhattabAbd al-Rahman b. 'AwfAbu 'Ubayda al-Jarrah, and Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas.

Usama camped in Juruf, an area near Medina waiting for the troops to join him, but some of the companions disagreed with his commandership and expressed their discontentment with the fact that such a young person was chosen as their commander.

Quote

Appointment as the Commander of the Army

One of the major events in Usama's life was the fact that he was appointed by the Prophet (s) after the Farewell Pilgrimage as the commander of the Muslim army to confront the Romans in Balqa' in Jordan. The army consisted of both the Emigrants and the Helpers, including some of the prominent companions of the Prophet (s). Usama was appointed as the commander when he was a twenty-year old youth. Al-Waqidi affirms that "there remained none of the early Emigrants except that he was summoned to this battle." According to historical sources, among those who were required to join this army were such figures as Abu BakrUmar b. al-KhattabAbd al-Rahman b. 'AwfAbu 'Ubayda al-Jarrah, and Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas.

Usama camped in Juruf, an area near Medina waiting for the troops to join him, but some of the companions disagreed with his commandership and expressed their discontentment with the fact that such a young person was chosen as their commander.

The Prophet (s) commanded this military expedition in his illness at the end of his life, but the disobedience of some of the companions and the consequential delay in the commencement of the expedition (fourteen days, according to al-Waqidi) made him go to his pulpit with difficulty and rebuke the disobeyers. It seems that the reason behind the disobedience was the Prophet's (s) illness and the likelihood of his demise. It is reported that Usama's mother asked the Prophet (s) to postpone the expedition until he recovers from his illness, but the Prophet (s) did not accept her request.

Despite the emphases of the Prophet (s), a number of the companions refused to join the army until the Prophet (s) passed away, and the army of Usama began its expedition after Abu Bakr was chosen as the first caliph.

 

It is said that when the anger of the Muslims towards 'Uthman became severe, Usama sought the permission of Imam Ali (a) to leave Medina so that he would not be instigated in Uthman's murder, as he predicted that he would be killed.[29]

Quote

 

During the Government of Imam Ali (a)

When Imam Ali (a) became the caliph, Usama was amongst a group of companions which included Sa'd b. Abi WaqqasAbd Allah b. Umar, Muhammad b. Muslama and others who abstained from giving the oath of allegiance to the Imam (a).[30] Imam Ali (a) mentioned this act of abstention of Usama in one of his sermons,[31] and even though 'Ammar b. Yasir insisted that the Imam get their oath of allegiance, the Imam (a) left them to be.[32]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Usama_b._Zayd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 6/3/2022 at 11:48 PM, Debate follower said:

As regards a certain woman, she is in the grip of womanly views, and malice is boiling in her bosom like the furnace of the blacksmith. If she were called upon to deal with others as she is dealing with me, she would not have done it. (As for me), even hereafter she will be allowed her original respect, while the reckoning (of her misdeeds) is an obligation on Allah. Nahjul Balagha Sermon 156

وَأَمَّا فُلاَنَةُ، فَأَدْرَكَهَا رَأْيُ الْنِّسَاءِ، وَضِغْنٌ غَلاَ فِي صَدْرِهَا كَمِرْجَلِ الْقَيْنِ، وَلَوْ دُعِيَتْ لِتَنَالَ مِنْ غَيْرِي مَا أَتَتْ إِلَيَّ، لَمْ تَفْعَلْ، وَلَهَا بَعْدُ حُرْمَتُهَا الاْولَى، وَالْحِسَابُ عَلَى اللهِ

 My dear respected brother, we all must heed Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) words and deeds – Note that he:

1) says even hereafter she will be allowed her original respect

2) while the reckoning (of her misdeeds) is an obligation on Allah (meaning that we should leave the judgment to Allah Almighty and not pass our own judgments).

Clearly, He is emphasizing that, (even with her misdeeds) Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) should be given respect she deserves and, in the Hereafter, she will be allowed her original respect. And that only Allah Almighty has the Right to Judge her and no one else.

But do Shias care to follow his commands? Sadly no, it is so clear from reading what’s uttered or written on Shia Websites.

Salam Amir Almuminin clearly has mentioned Aisha due that this sermon has been given rightly after battle  of Jamal(Camel) which due to respect  to prophet Muhammad (pbu) & rest of wives  of prophet  Muhammad (pbu) likewise Um ul Muminin Um Salama who she oppsed & criticized  Aisha for engaging  in war with Amir Al Muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) so therefore  Amir Al Muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) has not mentioned  name of her but on the other hand he has criticized  her then concluded that her judgment  will be done in hereafter by Allah which due to respect to prophet Muhammad (pbu) he has not punished her in order to keep respect of rest of Um al Muminis likeise Um Salama who opposed Aisha & supported  Amir Al Muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) which your conclusions:blabla::titanic: are void as alaways.:book::respect::sign_war:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Ibn Dawud after criticizing praises him and mentions that Imam al-Baqir (a) said:" Indeed Usama returned to Imam Ali (a), therefore do not mention him except with goodness."[49]

Quote

Usama in Shi'a Biographical Works

Even if Usama initially did not give the oath of allegiance to Imam Ali (a), the changing of his mind is evidence enough to consider him trustworthy from the viewpoint of Shi'a biographical scholars.

Ibn Dawud after criticizing praises him and mentions that Imam al-Baqir (a) said:" Indeed Usama returned to Imam Ali (a), therefore do not mention him except with goodness."[49]

Al-'Allama al-Hilli writes in Khulasat al-aqwal: "Usama returned to Imam Ali (a) and it was forbidden to speak of him except with goodness; however it is said that the hadiths that are narrated from him are weak. According to me it is better to be impartial about the narrations from Usama."[50]

Shushtari in Qamus al-rijal considers him to be trustworthy and writes: "Narrations exist that show that Usama returned to Imam Ali (a) and that he should not be mentioned except with goodness; this is sufficient to indicate that he had a good ending."[51]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Usama_b._Zayd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 6/3/2022 at 11:48 PM, Debate follower said:

It seems it is same as asking Sunnis to respect and love personalities like Abu Jahl, Abu Lahab, Walid bin Mughira, Umayyah bin Khalaf etc. as we have been brought up disliking these personalities. But we are never obsessed in our disliking of them.

I have yet to see Shias passionately cursing these people ritually as they do to those very close to the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)!!!!

Salam both of Sunnis & Shias have cursed these people  because  they have cursed by both of Allah  & prophet  Muhammad (pbu) which only wahabists  & Salafists have obbessed about defending  these  cursed people & hypocrites  which shias have cursed them in following  Sunnah of prophet  Muhammad (pbu) & rationality not just as mere a ritual .

On 6/3/2022 at 11:41 PM, Debate follower said:

Imam Fakhr al-Din al-Razi (Rahimullah) was a polymath, a preeminent Islamic scholar in the fields of medicine, chemistry, physics, astronomy, cosmology, literature, theology, ontology, philosophy, history and jurisprudence. He claimed descent from first caliph Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him)”

Dear brother, Imam Fakhr al-Din al-Razi (Rahimullah) was a great Sunni scholar. He is NOT stating above as fact but what that is ‘in news’. – This is clearly suggested by the heading you posted:    الرازي - المحصول - الكلام في الأخبار

Which can be translated roughly as:  Harvested or yielded or gathered from ‘talk in the news’

He is not stating this as fact but states: The second “storyالحكاية الثانية He is simply stating what the “stories are
in news” and this one was the second story.

This is a typical  response of Wahabists  & Salafis when they can't deny facts but on the other hand they do any type of gimmickry  & misinterpretation  to avoid accepting  facts which in similar  fashion you have denied that الأخبار & الحكاية have another name of الحدیث (narration ) which these hadith exclusively  contains  story & reason  behind any Hadith (narration) in full details  which rulings have been drived from Narration  by shortening & dropping  stories  ( الأخبار & الحكاية)from narration as Jarh & Ta'adil جرح و تعدیل

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358891749_Al-jarh_wa_al-ta'adil_Impugnment_and_Validation_As_an_Effective_Mechanism_of_Checking_Hadith_Fabrication (Sunni viewpoint )

Literal Meaning
"Jarh" has a variety of meanings in Arabic, such as injury, sarcasm, and acquisition. And "ta'dil" is from the Arabic root, "'adl" (justice), which means to balance or straighten what is bent.

Quote

Al-Jarḥ wa l-taʿdīl (Arabic: الجَرح و التَعدیل) or criticism and praise is a branch of, and a terminology in, hadith sciences concerning the evaluation and criteria of the reliability and unreliability of the transmitters of hadiths, and consequently, the acceptance or rejection of those hadiths. Understanding the meanings of the Qur'an and the tradition, which is obtained via reliable hadiths, depends on jarh and ta'dil, because the assessment of the reliability of the transmitters of hadiths is required for knowing reliable and unreliable hadiths.

 

Quote

Religious Tendency

According to Shiite scholars of hadiths and jurisprudence, a transmitter of hadiths should believe in Twelver Shiism in order for his or her hadiths to count as reliable. However, if a person believes in an Islamic denomination other than Shiism, it does not mean that his or her hadiths are not considered as reliable. Their hadiths are reliable if they are accurate and trusted. That is why, there are hadiths in Shiite sources which are transmitted by SunniZaydiWaqifi, and Fatahi transmitters which are taken as reliable, since these people were considered as reliable by scholars of rijal.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Jarh_wa_l-Ta'dil

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 6/3/2022 at 11:44 PM, Debate follower said:

I got the following from the Net just to show that Hz. Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) had great respect for Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him).

‘Abdul-Razzaq from al-Awza’ee from Makhoul from he who asked ‘Aisha (رضي الله عنه) about the clothes that a woman wears in prayer? she said: ask ‘Ali then come back and tell me what he answers, so he went and asked him and ‘Ali replied: “She can pray in a shift that reaches down and covers the top of her feet.” then he returned and told ‘Aisha and she said: He speaks truth. (Musannaf ‘Abdul-Razzaq).

Shareeh Bin Hane’e says, I asked Aysha about washing (the feet in ablution). She said, “Go to Ali ibn abi Talib, he is more knowledgeable than I.” So, I went to him and asked him about the wash. Ali said, “The messenger of Allah used to order us to wash our feet at day and night, and the traveller should do it three times.” (The Virtues of the Companions, by Imam Ahmed, vol.2, #1199, p.702)

Shurayh bin Hanii said: I came to ‘Aisha (رضي الله عنه) asking her about wiping on the Khufayn(socks) so she said: You have to seek ‘Ali Ibn abi Talib and ask him for he used to travel a lot with the Prophet SAWS, ‘Ali then said: “The Prophet SAWS allowed three days and three nights for the traveller and one day and one night for the resident.”

Aisha (may God be pleased with her) said regarding Ali(ra): “He is the most knowledgeable about the Sunnah among those who remain,” (Abu Nu`aym, Hilya al-Awliya’ 1:100-128 #4; al-Dhahabi, Siyar A`lam al-Nubala’ 1/2:615-660 #5.)

Also, Hz. Aisha’s (may Allah be pleased with her) hadith about Hz. Fatimah (may Allah be pleased with her)

Lady Fatima's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) high status in the words of Aisha, the wife of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)

Aisha reported: I have not seen anyone more closely resemble the disposition, mannerism, and characteristics of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, than his daughter Fatimah, may Allah honour her countenance. If she entered his home, the Prophet would stand for her, take her by the hand, kiss her, and seat her in his place. If the Prophet entered her home, she would stand for him, take him by the hand, kiss him, and seat him in her place.  Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 5217

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/7330/Lady-Fatima-s-(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)-high-status-in-the-words-of-Aisha-the-wife

Amir al muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) & lady Fatima (sa) have been respected & praised by anyone even tby their wretched  enemies which there are multiple  reports & narrations  which all of three caliphs have respected & praised both of then even there are multiple reports   ( الأخبار & الحكاية) & narrations  which   Amir al muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) has been prespected & praised by his wretched  enemies  specially by cursed Muawiah (la) but on the other hand deeds of Ayesha  & three caliphs & cursed Muawiah  have been done due to their enmity & hatred toward Amir al muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) & lady Fatima (sa) so therefore neither their enemies praise have increased staus of Amir al muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) & lady Fatima (sa) nor enmity of evil actions of them have decreased  status of  Amir al muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) & lady Fatima (sa) which we have an Iranian  quote which we say " I don't  have hope for your goodness [toward me] thus don't do evilness [toward me]" مرا به خیر تو امید نیست شر مرسان ie don't  do anything  for me.

On 6/3/2022 at 11:48 PM, Debate follower said:

Read the following:

When Ā’ishah heard about the martyrdom of ‘Alī, she prayed for him and said, “Have you seen him (‘Alī) saying other than this (i.e., Allāh & His Messenger spoke the truth)? I said, ‘By Allāh, No.’ She (Ā’ishah) said, ‘Yes Allāh and His Messenger spoke the truth, May Allāh have mercy upon ‘Alī, for whenever he would like something he would say’, ‘Allāh and His Messenger have declared the truth’.” [Sahīh al-Musnad min Ahadīth al-Fitān by Shaykh Mustafa al-Adāwī, page 150-151] Grading: Isnād is Hasan (Strong)

This is just forging & misinterpretation  by Wahabists  because  in authentic  Sunni narration after hearing about martyrdom  of Amir al Muminin Imam Ali(عليه السلام)  She has prostrated for thanking Allah for killing him .

Abu l-Faraj al-Isfahani:

حدثنی محمد بن الحسین الأشنانی، قال: حدثنا أحمد بن حازم، قال: حدثنا عاصم بن عامر، وعثمان بن أبی شیبة، قالا: حدثنا جریر، عن الأعمش، عن عمرو بن مرة، عن أبی البختری، قال:
لما أن جاء عائشة قتل علی علیه السلام سجدت.
أبوالبخترى گفته: وقتى خبر شهادت على علیه السلام به عائشه رسید، سجده کرد.

Abu Al-Bakhtari has said: When news of Martyrdom  of Ali (عليه السلام) has reached to Aishas , she has prostrated.
الاصفهانی، مقاتل الطالبیین، اسم المؤلف: أبو الفرج علی بن الحسین (متوفاى356هـ)، ج1، ص11، طبق برنامه الجامع الکبیر.
Documentation of this narration which whole of it's narrtors are [Sunni] Thiqas.

Abu l-Faraj al-Isfahani Maqatil al-talibiyyin, v 1 , p 11 based on software  of الجامع الكبیر Al Jami' Al-Kabir.

بررسی سند روایت:

Investigation  about document  of narration 

https://article.tebyan.net/405025/سجده-کردن-عایشه-بعد-از-شهادت-امام-علی-ع-

http://www.valiasr-aj.com/persian/shownews.php?idnews=4966

https://www.porseman.com/article/سجده-كردن-عايشه-بعد-از-شهادت-امام-علي(ع)/135402

http://thaqalain.ir/سجده-کردن-عایشه-بعد-از-شهادت-امام-علی-عل/

Khwansari also doubts his Imami affiliation; he believes that Abu l-Faraj took Shiite positions for political reasons. In Khwansari's viewpoint, being a descendant of Marwan counts as an indication that he was not a Shi'a.

Quote

Religious Affiliation

Many scholars, including Sunni scholars, maintain that Abu l-Faraj was Shi'a. Al-Dhahabi and Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, however, regarded his Shiite affiliation as strange considering the fact that he was a descendant of Marwan. Ibn al-Jawzi and al-Khatib al-Baghdadi maintained that the hadiths he quoted were unreliable because of his Shiite affiliation.

In his works, especially in al-Aghani and Maqatil al-Talibiyyin, Abu l-Faraj shows great respect for Imam Ali (a) and his children, and in all cases, he calls the Imam (a) "Amir al-Mu'minin. He also uses the formula "peace be upon him" when he mentions the name of an Imam instead of formulas such as "May God be pleased with him" or "May God honor his face," which can be an indication that he was a Shi'a.

Considering some of Abu l-Faraj's remarks in his works, al-Shaykh al-Tusi and al-'Allama al-Hilli, have regarded him as a Zaydi Shi'a. Khwansari also doubts his Imami affiliation; he believes that Abu l-Faraj took Shiite positions for political reasons. In Khwansari's viewpoint, being a descendant of Marwan counts as an indication that he was not a Shi'a.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Abu_l-Faraj_al-Isfahani

In Ibn Sa'd's "Tabaqat al kubra", it is stated that after the martyrdom of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), Aisha recited this poem:

و ذهب بقتل علی (عليه السلام) إلى الحجاز سفيان بن أمية بن أبی سفيان بن أمية بن عبد شمس فبلغ ذلك عائشة فقالت: «فأَلقتْ عَصاها واستقرَّ بها النَّوى * كما قرَّ عيناً بالإيابِ المُسافِرُ»

Sufyan ibn Umayyah reported the news of Ali (عليه السلام) 's death to the Hejaz, when news reached to  Aisha she said  heard it  she said he has throwned her cane and  became  calm on his place , as eyes become when traveler  returns (1) Itself "throwing cane" means , which when a person in a certain place his heart is calm and his mind is relaxed, it is said: "throwned the cane." Ayesha meant to say this poem because she really wanted to say that she was relieved from thought of Ali , my heart calmed down, and my heart was opened and my mind was relieved, because she was always waiting for such news, like someone who is waiting for a traveler which due to the arrival of the traveler will open her eyes and calm her heart

(1) ابن سعد (متوفاى 230هـ)، الطبقات الكبرى، ج 3، ص 40، ناشر: دار صادر ـ بيروت.

 Ibn Sa'd's (death 230 Hijri)  , Al Tabaqat al kubra , v 30 , p 40 , publisher : Dar Sader - Beirut

https://www.publishersglobal.com/directory/publisher-profile/2509

http://www.porsemanequran.com/content/سجده-عایشه-برای-شهادت-علی-عليه-السلام

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 6/3/2022 at 11:48 PM, Debate follower said:

Sahīh al-Musnad min Ahadīth al-Fitān by Shaykh Mustafa al-Adāwī, page 150-151] Grading: Isnād is Hasan (Strong).

 

The hatred of Aisha toward Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) is well known. This was not just limited to waging war against Imam ‘Ali. Ahmad Ibn Hanbal recorded that:

Quote

 

"Ata Ibn Yasar, who says that a certain person came to Aisha and began to use impudent and abusive words for ‘Ali while Ammar, was in her presence. She said to him: "As regards ‘Ali, I have nothing to tell you, but as regards Ammar, I have heard the Messenger of Allah saying about him that if he has to make a choice between two things he will always choose that which is better from the point of view of good guidance and salvation."

Sunni reference: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, p113

Aisha’s hatred for Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) was so much that she always tried to distance him from the Prophet (S) whenever she could find the means to do so.

Quote

Ibn Abil Hadid, in his commentary on the Nahjul Balagha reported:

The Prophet of Allah (S) beckoned to ‘Ali to come close. He came close until he sat between him and Aisha, and he and the Prophet (S) were clung together. She said to him "Can you not find a seat for this one except on my thigh?”

Ibn Abil Hadid also reported that one day the Prophet of Allah (S) was walking with Imam ‘Ali and the conversation became prolonged. Aisha approached as she was walking from behind until she came between them saying: "What is it between you two that you are taking so long?”Upon this the Prophet of Allah (S) became angry.

Sunni reference: Sharh Ibn Abil Hadid, v9, p195

It is also reported that she once came upon the Prophet (S) whilst he was conversing quietly with ‘Ali. She screamed and said: "What is it with you and me, O son of Abu Talib? I have (just) one day with the Prophet of Allah (S)". Thereupon the Prophet (S) became angry.

She was also involved in the intercepting the funeral procession of al-Hasan, the leader of the Heaven’s youth, and prevented his burial beside his grandfather (the Prophet)

Quote

, and she said: "Do not let anybody that I don’t like enter my house.”She forgot, or maybe ignored the saying of the Prophet (S) about al-Hasan and al-Husayn that: "I love them, and Allah loves those who love them”(Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, Traditions 5.90 and 3.333), or the saying of the Prophet that: "Nothing has been dearer to me than al-Hasan.”(Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, Tradition 7.772).

 

Whoever loves ‘Ali has loved me, and whoever hates ‘Ali has hated me.”(al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p130 who said this Tradition is authentic as set by the two standards of Muslim and Bukhari).

 

Quote

Would the Prophet (S) be pleased with any believing man or woman whose heart was filled with hatred and malice towards his cousin, the leader of his progeny, about whom he said: "He loves Allah and His Prophet, and Allah and His Prophet love him"? He also said about him: "Whoever loves ‘Ali has loved me, and whoever hates ‘Ali has hated me.”(al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p130 who said this Tradition is authentic as set by the two standards of Muslim and Bukhari).

Had Aisha not heard the saying of the Prophet about ‘Ali that "Non but a believer would love him, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against him"? (Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141; Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p643; Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142; Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128; Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari, v1, part 1, p202; Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu’aym, v4, p185; Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462).

This saying of the Prophet was so well-known that some of the companions used to say: "We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of ‘Ali.”(Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition #1086; al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47; al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v3, p242; Dhakha’ir al-Uqba, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, p91).

Moreover, Had Aisha not heard the saying of the Prophet: "Whoever I am his master, ‘Ali is his master. O God! Love those who love him and be hostile to those who are hostile to him"? (Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v2, p298, v5, p63; Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, pp 12,43) Undoubtedly she heard all of them, but she did not like them, and when she heard of the assassination of Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام), she knelt and thanked Allah!!! (See the History of al-Tabari and the History of Ibn al-Athir on the events of the year 40 AH).

 

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/who-are-ahlul-bayt-part-7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...