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In the Name of God بسم الله

Asking from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) directly

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رَبَّنَا إِنَّكَ رَؤُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ

59:10

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Raoof ur Raheem.

وَأَنَّ اللَّه رَؤُوفٌ رَحِيمٌ

24:20 

لَقَدْ جَاءكُمْ رَسُولٌ مِّنْ أَنفُسِكُمْ عَزِيزٌ عَلَيْهِ مَا عَنِتُّمْ حَرِيصٌ عَلَيْكُم بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ رَؤُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ

9:128

Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is raoof ur raheem too. 

What is this? Shirk?? Is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself commiting shirk here by mentioning someone other than Him as raoof ur raheem? 

We understand these sort of verses through the "manifestation of divine names". Because if you supplicate by saying " Ya Raoofo Ya Raheem" whom you are calling? To Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Or to the ism "Raoof, Raheem" or to the One who is the owner of that Ism? And you can see from above verse, apparently the owner of these names are two (Allah & Prophet). While in fact the real owner is One i.e., Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Prophet's self is nothing but the manifestation of these divine names.

I hope I am clear.

 

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بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

In the name of Allah,  All-Merciful, The Gracious

ٱللَّٰهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَىٰ مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَجِّلْ فَرَجَهُمْ

O God, bless Muhammad and the Progeny of Muhammad and hasten their alleviation

 

Muhammed (SAAS) is the praiser and Allah is praiseworthy. Muhammed (SAAS) is suplicator and Allah is the Answerer. Muhammed (SAAS) is created and Allah is the Creator. Muhammed (SAAS)  and was not existing and Allah is Ever-Living, Staying. Muhammed (SAAS) was guided and Allah is the Guide. Muhammed (SAAS) is nourished and Allah is the Nourisher. Muhammed (SAAS) is needy and Allah is the Self-Sufficient. Muhammed (SAAS) poor and Allah is The Rich. Muhammed (SAAS) was taught and Allah Knows Everything Foreverly. Muhammed (SAAS) is weak and Allah is All-Powerful. Muhammed (SAAS) is obeying willingly and Allah is the one whom all submits willingly or unwillingly. Muhammed (SAAS) has form and Allah is One. Muhammed (SAAS) was born and Allah is not. Muhammed (SAAS) has limited knowledge and Allah is All-Aware. Muhammed (SAAS) moves from place to place and Allah does not. 

Muhammed (SAAS) is the one who recognizes that Allah is not like him (SAAS and that Allah is worthy of worship Magnificent, Generous, All-Merciful, Gracious.

 One who prays Muhammed (SAAS) has not followed Muhammed (SAAS) nor recognized the Creator of Muhammed (SAAS).

Ask Allahs forgiveness if ever called any other than Allah, The Lord of the Worlds.

 

اَللَّهُمَّ ٱجْعَلْ مَحْيَايَ مَحْيَا مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ

O Allah, (please) make me live my lifetime in the same way as Muhammad and Muhammad’s Household lived

وَمَمَاتِي مَمَاتَ مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ

and make me die on the same principles on which Muhammad and Mu¦ammad’s Household died.

http://www.duas.org/ziaratashura-desktop.htm

 


 

بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

مَالِكِ يَوْمِ الدِّينِ

إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ


 

وَيَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ مَا لَا يَضُرُّهُمْ وَلَا يَنْفَعُهُمْ وَيَقُولُونَ هَٰؤُلَاءِ شُفَعَاؤُنَا عِنْدَ اللَّهِ ۚ قُلْ أَتُنَبِّئُونَ اللَّهَ بِمَا لَا يَعْلَمُ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَلَا فِي الْأَرْضِ ۚ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ

 

And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what Allah knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Allah, and supremely exalted is above what they set up  [Qur'an 10:18,]

 

They serve, besides Allah, things that hurt them not nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do ye indeed inform Allah of something Allah knows not in the heavens or on earth?― Glory toAllah! and far is above the partners they ascribe!" 

 

بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

 

الله أكبر‎

الله اَلْغَفُورلرَّحِيمِ

 

 

Edited by Abdul Rahim al-Hasan
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بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

In the name of Allah,  All-Merciful, The Gracious

ٱللَّٰهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَىٰ مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَجِّلْ فَرَجَهُمْ

O God, bless Muhammad and the Progeny of Muhammad and hasten their alleviation


 

Surat Al-Yunus, 10, Ayat 49

 

قُلْ لَا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي ضَرًّا وَلَا نَفْعًا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ۗ لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ أَجَلٌ ۚ إِذَا جَاءَ أَجَلُهُمْ فَلَا يَسْتَأْخِرُونَ سَاعَةً ۖ وَلَا يَسْتَقْدِمُونَ

 

Tell them: 'I have no power to harm or benefit even myself, except what Allah may will. There is an appointed term for every people; and when the end of their term comes, neither can they put it off for an hour, nor can they bring it an hour before.

MAUDUDI

Say: 'I have no power to profit for myself, or hurt, but as God will. To every nation a term; when their term comes they shall not put it back by a single hour nor put it forward.'

ARBERRY

الله اَلْغَفُورلرَّحِيمِ

الله أكبر‎

 


 

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3 hours ago, Abdul Rahim al-Hasan said:

Muhammed (SAAS) is the praiser and Allah is praiseworthy. Muhammed (SAAS) is suplicator and Allah is the Answerer. Muhammed (SAAS) is created and Allah is the Creator. Muhammed (SAAS)  and was not existing and Allah is Ever-Living, Staying. Muhammed (SAAS) was guided and Allah is the Guide. Muhammed (SAAS) is nourished and Allah is the Nourisher. Muhammed (SAAS) is needy and Allah is the Self-Sufficient. Muhammed (SAAS) poor and Allah is The Rich. Muhammed (SAAS) was taught and Allah Knows Everything Foreverly. Muhammed (SAAS) is weak and Allah is All-Powerful. Muhammed (SAAS) is obeying willingly and Allah is the one whom all submits willingly or unwillingly. Muhammed (SAAS) has form and Allah is One. Muhammed (SAAS) was born and Allah is not. Muhammed (SAAS) has limited knowledge and Allah is All-Aware. Muhammed (SAAS) moves from place to place and Allah does not. 

Muhammed (SAAS) is the one who recognizes that Allah is not like him (SAAS and that Allah is worthy of worship Magnificent, Generous, All-Merciful, Gracious.

 One who prays Muhammed (SAAS) has not followed Muhammed (SAAS) nor recognized the Creator of Muhammed (SAAS).

Ask Allahs forgiveness if ever called any other than Allah, The Lord of the Worlds.

 

اَللَّهُمَّ ٱجْعَلْ مَحْيَايَ مَحْيَا مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ

O Allah, (please) make me live my lifetime in the same way as Muhammad and Muhammad’s Household lived

وَمَمَاتِي مَمَاتَ مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ

and make me die on the same principles on which Muhammad and Mu¦ammad’s Household died.

http://www.duas.org/ziaratashura-desktop.htm

 


 

بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

مَالِكِ يَوْمِ الدِّينِ

إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ


 

وَيَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ مَا لَا يَضُرُّهُمْ وَلَا يَنْفَعُهُمْ وَيَقُولُونَ هَٰؤُلَاءِ شُفَعَاؤُنَا عِنْدَ اللَّهِ ۚ قُلْ أَتُنَبِّئُونَ اللَّهَ بِمَا لَا يَعْلَمُ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَلَا فِي الْأَرْضِ ۚ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ

 

And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what Allah knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Allah, and supremely exalted is above what they set up  [Qur'an 10:18,]

 

They serve, besides Allah, things that hurt them not nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do ye indeed inform Allah of something Allah knows not in the heavens or on earth?― Glory toAllah! and far is above the partners they ascribe!" 

 

بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

 

الله أكبر‎

الله اَلْغَفُورلرَّحِيمِ

Before putting forward such a lengthy post, It would be better if you have read what has been written by me.

Yes, Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is not the God and neither is Ali (عليه السلام), they are asma ul husna within themselves and they are the manifestation of divine names. 

If this is that hard for you then go through the following link:

https://www.aqaed.com/faq/5635/

 

 

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فهل يجوز أن نقول مثلاً: حسين يا عزيز، حسين يا رحمان؟

Is it permissible for us to say Hussain O Aziz, Hussain O Rehman?

ليس المقصود من الحديث (نحن والله الأسماء الحسنى) أنّ أسماء الأئمّة (عليهم السلام) هي أسماء الله، 

The hadith “We are the Most Beautiful Names of God” does not mean that the names of the imams (peace be upon them) are the names of God.

وإنّما المراد هو: إنّ ظهور معاني أسماء الله الحسنى إنّما يكون بهم وفيهم، ولذلك صاروا مظاهر صفات الله العظمى وأمثاله العليا، فالأسماء ليست مجرّد ألفاظ وحروف تنطق على اللسان، إنّما هي حقائق وذوات ومعاني وصفات، فلم يعلِّم الله عزّ وجلّ آدم أسماء الأشياء من جهة الألفاظ، وإنّما علـّمه معانيها وحقائقها؛ فافهم

Rather, what is meant is: The manifestation of the meanings of God’s Beautiful Names is only through them and in them, and that is why they became manifestations of the Great Attributes of God and His supreme parables.  God Almighty did not teach Adam the names of things in terms of words, but rather taught him their meanings and realities;  Understood!

https://www.aqaed.com/faq/5635/

Edited by Cool
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Another Sunni Allegation: 

"They did not describe God, Glory be to Him, with what He described Himself with and with what His Messenger, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him, described Him with, neither in their first school nor in their last school."

فهم لم يصفوا الله سبحانه بما وصف به نفسه وبما وصفه به رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم لا في مذهبهم الأول ولا في مذهبهم الأخير

If this is the case, then they were not satisfied with that. Rather, the matter developed to the fact that the names and attributes that are obligatory for God, Glory be to Him, described some human beings (the imams) with them, so they came out with a third doctrine, which is to liken the creature to the Creator, and they resembled the Christians in that just as they resembled the Jews in the first doctrine (embodiment).

إذا كان الأمر كذلك فإنهم لم يكتفوا بذلك، بل تطور الأمر إلى أن الأسماء والصفات الواجبة لله سبحانه وصفوا بها بعض البشر (الأئمة) فخرجوا بمذهب ثالث وهو تشبيه المخلوق بالخالق، فشابهوا النصارى في ذلك كما شابهوا اليهود في المذهب الأول (التجسيم)"

https://dorar.net/firq/1499/المطلب-الثالث:-وصفهم-الأئمة-بأسماء-الله-وصفاته:

Answer:

I am going to address the underline statement first. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said He is:

 ارحم الراحمين

خير الرازقين

خير الماكرين

خير الفاصلين

خير الحاكمين

خير الفاتحين

خير الغافرين

خير المنزلين

خير الوارثين

Who are rahimeen, raziqeen, makireen, fasileen, hakimeen, fatiheen, ghafireen, munzaleen, waritheen here in above names? 

Apart from that, He also said:

7 hours ago, Cool said:

وَأَنَّ اللَّه رَؤُوفٌ رَحِيمٌ

24:20 

لَقَدْ جَاءكُمْ رَسُولٌ مِّنْ أَنفُسِكُمْ عَزِيزٌ عَلَيْهِ مَا عَنِتُّمْ حَرِيصٌ عَلَيْكُم بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ رَؤُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ

9:128

So He is Raoof ur Rahim and He Himself said Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is Raoof ur Raheem. 

So these stupid people are basically raising objections against Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

Indeed the words of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are truth as He said:

و يجعل الرجس على الذين لا يعقلون

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بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

In the name of Allah,  All-Merciful, The Gracious

ٱللَّٰهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَىٰ مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَجِّلْ فَرَجَهُمْ

O God, bless Muhammad and the Progeny of Muhammad and hasten their alleviation


 

Surat Al-Yunus, 10, Ayat 49

 

قُلْ لَا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي ضَرًّا وَلَا نَفْعًا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ۗ لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ أَجَلٌ ۚ إِذَا جَاءَ أَجَلُهُمْ فَلَا يَسْتَأْخِرُونَ سَاعَةً ۖ وَلَا يَسْتَقْدِمُونَ

 

Tell them: 'I have no power to harm or benefit even myself, except what Allah may will. There is an appointed term for every people; and when the end of their term comes, neither can they put it off for an hour, nor can they bring it an hour before.

MAUDUDI

Say: 'I have no power to profit for myself, or hurt, but as God will. To every nation a term; when their term comes they shall not put it back by a single hour nor put it forward.'

ARBERRY

وَعِنْدَهُ مَفَاتِحُ الْغَيْبِ لَا يَعْلَمُهَا إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ ۚ وَمَا تَسْقُطُ مِنْ وَرَقَةٍ إِلَّا يَعْلَمُهَا وَلَا حَبَّةٍ فِي ظُلُمَاتِ الْأَرْضِ وَلَا رَطْبٍ وَلَا يَابِسٍ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ

 

With [Allah] are the treasures of the Unseen; no one knows them except  Huwa [Allah] and [Allah] knows whatever there is in land and sea. No leaf falls withouting knowing it, nor is there a grain in the darkness of the earth, nor anything fresh or withered but it is in a manifest Book.

 

قُلْ لَا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِنْدِي خَزَائِنُ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ وَلَا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ إِنِّي مَلَكٌ ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۚ قُلْ هَلْ يَسْتَوِي الْأَعْمَىٰ وَالْبَصِيرُ ۚ أَفَلَا تَتَفَكَّرُونَ

Say, ‘I do not say to you that I possess the treasuries of Allah, nor do I know the Unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel. I follow only what is revealed to me.’ Say, ‘Are the blind one and the seer equal? So do you not reflect?’

 

 

Muhammed (SAAS) does not know everything. Only name Allah is for the One that knows everything. Anyone praying other than Allah has left Islam and called something that has limited knowledge and power and can not answer nor help. 

لِلَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَمَا فِيهِنَّ ۚ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

Holy Quran al-Maidah 5:120

 

To Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and whatever there is in them, and [Allah] huwal has power over all things.

ۚ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

 

Everything is weak before Allah, and Allah alone hold faiths, destinies and power over all things.

 

Anyone who prays other than Allah has not worshipped the one who is worthy of worship nor recognized Allah, Magnificent. 

 

Rasulullah (SAAS) can not, nor can Walitullah (عليه السلام) arrange matters when they have no knowledge of all things and therefore they can not answer to prayers. Rasulullah (عليه السلام) nor Waliatullah (عليه السلام) do not deserve the name Allah who is The Only one who knows everything. Allah All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Wise. 

 

One who calls creation and claims they have power to answer or knowledge to answer has committed the greatest sin.

 

الله أكبر‎

الله اَلْغَفُورلرَّحِيمِ



 

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بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

In the name of Allah,  All-Merciful, The Gracious

ٱللَّٰهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَىٰ مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَجِّلْ فَرَجَهُمْ

O God, bless Muhammad and the Progeny of Muhammad and hasten their alleviation


 

Muhammed (عليه السلام) and Ahlulbayt(عليه السلام)  know Allah like Allah wants to be known, and therefore they are manifestations of the most beautiful names of Allah in their actions and merits of understanding but they are not Allah, All-Knowing, All-Powerful and therefore only names of Allah can be used to Allah that are All-Knowing, All-Powerful, All-Wise, All-Just. Address sublications in prober way when you beseech Allah, All-Mighty by “Lord of Muhammed, Lord of Musa, Lord of Isa, Lord of Ibrahim, and Lord of Nuh.” and ask blessing from their Lord to oneself and Allah to bless them (عليه السلام) and their pure families (عليه السلام). Asking from Imam or asking from Rasul is asking from created and asking from the Lord of the creation knowing that Muhammed (عليه السلام) is the leader of the mankind and jinnkind and that Ahlubayt (عليه السلام) pure are the leaders of the Mankind and Jinnkind after Rasulullah (عليه السلام) is an acknowledgement of reality to understand those who need to be obeyed in matters of religion in this life and in the hereafter.

 

الله اَلْغَفُورلرَّحِيمِ

ٱللَّٰهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَىٰ مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَجِّلْ فَرَجَهُمْ

 

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1 hour ago, Abdul Rahim al-Hasan said:

but they are not Allah

Thanks for this great information.

1 hour ago, Abdul Rahim al-Hasan said:

therefore only names of Allah can be used to Allah that are All-Knowing, All-Powerful, All-Wise, All-Just. Address sublications in prober way when you beseech Allah, All-Mighty by “Lord of Muhammed, Lord of Musa, Lord of Isa, Lord of Ibrahim, and Lord of Nuh.” and ask blessing from their Lord to oneself and Allah to bless them (عليه السلام) and their pure families (عليه السلام).  

 

So one cannot use "Ya Raoof", "Ya Raheem"? For you, using these asma would tantamount to shirk? 

One cannot use "Ya Awwalo Ya Aakhir"? Just because you and people like your mentality would start chanting shirk shirk??

And I can quote many more asma which are asma Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as well as asma of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). 

Know that every ism is a creation, the only thing which is not creation is the Self. 

حدثنا علي بن أحمد بن محمد بن عمران الدقاق رحمه الله ، قال : حدثنا محمد بن يعقوب ، قال : حدثنا علي بن محمد ، عن صالح بن أبي حماد ، عن الحسين بن يزيد ، عن الحسن بن علي بن أبي حمزة ، عن إبراهيم بن عمر ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال : إن الله تبارك وتعالى خلق اسما بالحروف وهو عز وجل بالحروف غير منعوت  وباللفظ غير منطق ، وبالشخص غير مجسد ، وبالتشبيه غير موصوف ،  وباللون غير مصبوغ ، منفي عنه الأقطار ، مبعد عنه الحدود ، محجوب عنه حس كل متوهم ، مستتر غير مستور ، فجعله كلمة تامة على أربعة أجزاء معا ، ليس منها واحد قبل الآخر ، فأظهر منها ثلاثة أسماء لفاقة الخلق إليها  وحجب واحدا منها ، وهو الاسم المكنون المخزون بهذه الأسماء الثلاثة التي أظهرت ، فالظاهر هو الله تبارك وتعالى ، وسخر سبحانه لكل اسم من هذه أربعة أركان  فذلك اثنا عشر ركنا ، ثم خلق لكل ركن منها ثلاثين اسما ، فعلا منسوبا إليها  فهو الرحمن الرحيم ، الملك ، القدوس ، الخالق البارئ ، المصور ، الحي القيوم ، لا تأخذه سنة ولا نوم ، العليم ، الخبير ، السميع ، البصير ، الحكيم ، العزيز ، الجبار ، المتكبر ، العلي ، العظيم ، المقتدر ، القادر ، السلام ، المؤمن المهيمن ، البارئ  المنشئ ، البديع ، الرفيع ، الجليل ، الكريم ، الرزاق ، المحيي ، المميت ، الباعث الوارث ، فهذه الأسماء وما كان من الأسماء الحسنى حتى تتم ثلاثمائة وستين اسما فهي نسبة لهذه الأسماء الثلاثة ، وهذه الأسماء الثلاثة أركان وحجب للاسم الواحد المكنون المخزون بهذه الأسماء الثلاثة ، وذلك قوله عز وجل : ( قل ادعوا الله أو ادعوا الرحمن أيا ما تدعوا فله الأسماء الحسنى ) " 

أحمد بن إدريس ، عن الحسين بن عبد الله ، عن محمد بن عبد الله وموسى بن عمر ، والحسن بن علي بن عثمان ، عن ابن سنان قال : سألت أبا الحسن الرضا عليه السلام : هل كان الله عز وجل عارفا بنفسه قبل أن يخلق الخلق ؟ قال : نعم ، قلت : يراها ويسمعها ؟ قال : ما كان محتاجا إلى ذلك لأنه لم يكن يسألها ولا يطلب منها ، هو نفسه ونفسه هو ، قدرته نافذة فليس يحتاج أن يسمي نفسه ، ولكنه اختار لنفسه أسماء لغيره يدعوه بها لأنه إذا لم يدع باسمه لم يعرف ، فأول ما اختار لنفسه : العلي العظيم لأنه أعلى الأشياء كلها ، فمعناه الله واسمه العلي العظيم ، هو أول أسمائه ، علا على كل شئ "

لقد جعل الامامية حدوث الاسماء متعلق بالخلق , وانه لا بد للمخلوق ان يعرف ربه باسماء يدعوه بها , ولهذا خلق الله الاسماء , اي ان علة خلق الاسماء هي احتياج الخلق اليها مع استغناء الله تعالى عن هذه الاسماء , وقد بينت الرواية هذا الامر بكل وضوح حيث قال الامام المعصوم عند الامامية (هو نفسه ونفسه هو ، قدرته نافذة فليس يحتاج أن يسمي نفسه ، ولكنه اختار لنفسه أسماء لغيره يدعوه بها لأنه إذا لم يدع باسمه لم يعرف )

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10 hours ago, Cool said:

What is this? Shirk?? Is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself commiting shirk here by mentioning someone other than Him as raoof ur raheem

Very kind, very merciful. 
 

Those are Adjectives that are used to describe a person. In this case the prophet is very kind and merciful and so is Allah. So is my mother so is my father. 
 

When supplicating to Allah we call his name, and we can show gratitude by using his other beautiful names that describe him and bring peace to us knowing he is the most merciful. And the most kind. And the most knowledged. The most powerful. The list goes on 

 

I am the most powerful human in my house. I don’t know if I’m the knowledged, or kindest. 
 

You’re trying to hard, which is making things more complicated. Doing whatever to justify calling on the imams just to reach Allah. Where if you read our lords book, you would finally understand none of what you preach is necessary  


I hope I’m clear. 

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11 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Those are Adjectives that are used to describe a person.

Means these adjectives are not the person themselves? So what else I am saying?

And if your mother & anyone else is very kind, very merciful, this kindness & mercifulness is the manifestation of the One who owns these attributes from the very beginning (Al-Awwal). And the One who owns these attributes is the One on whom these attributes remain till the end (Al-Aakhir)

11 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

You’re trying to hard, which is making things more complicated. Doing whatever to justify calling on the imams just to reach Allah. Where if you read our lords book, you would finally understand none of what you preach is necessary  

What I have found in "The Book" is that I can reach to God Almighty either "through" His names or either "through" following the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams. Either "through" supplication i.e. my words or either "through" my deeds.

قُلْ إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

3:31 Say: if you love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and will forgive your sins for Allah is Forgiving & Merciful.

And since I am following the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), my words & deeds should be the same as Prophet's.

And since I find manifestation of divine attributes in Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams, therefore I have the only mean to approach God and that is the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams (عليه السلام). In other words, it is Quran (both, in its natiq & samit forms)

This is what I have learned and found. 

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7 minutes ago, Cool said:

Means these adjectives are not the person themselves? So what else I am saying?

If you use the word “merciful” to Call upon Allah, then you are using his name. 
I was explaining that his names are adjective terms. But are still HIS name, if you call HIM. 
 

Alis name is not ALLAHS name or ALLAHS self, so no you cannot use Ali or Muhammad to call allahs Self, because those names call those people. 
 

You can’t call onto Muhammad using the most “merciful” term, because HE CANT HEAR YOU. 
 

you can use the term “merciful” to call ALLAH because he can hear you. 

11 minutes ago, Cool said:

 

3:31 Say: if you love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and will forgive your sins for Allah is Forgiving & Merciful

Just as Jesus in the Bible said,

”if you have seen me you have seen god. I am the way, the truth, and the light” 

some humans will take that for what he meant, which the quran explains. 
 

and some will take that as he is saying he is god, in front of them. 
 

——————

 

you are taking the Quranic verse as if Muhammad was speaking to you first off, which he wasn’t I’m sure it was to a group of people he was trying to convince that he is a god sent messenger. Second, you are taking it as he’s telling you to follow step for step otherwise you will not know Allah. 
 

i feel like you search through the whole Quran and only look for verses that can support your love for the Imam, and you have WAY less desire to read the whole Quran and understand Allah wholely. 
 

14 minutes ago, Cool said:

And since I am following the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), my words & deeds should be the same as Prophet's.

And since I find manifestation of divine attributes in Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams, therefore I have the only mean to approach God and that is the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams (عليه السلام). In other words, it is Quran (both, in its natiq & samit forms

Allah doesn’t need you, you need him. 
 

Just becareful what “divine” attributes you associate with anyone other than Allah. 
 

good luck 

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2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

If you use the word “merciful” to Call upon Allah, then you are using his name. 

So this word "Merciful", is not the Self itself. Do you agree with this?

2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Alis name is not ALLAHS name or ALLAHS self, so no you cannot use Ali or Muhammad to call allahs Self, because those names call those people. 

Allah's name is Al-Ali (العلي) too. 

I am going one step ahead brother, till now, we were talking about them (Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams) as their capacity to manifest divine names.

Islam is a perfect religion, perfected by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), therefore Islam is wajhullah (face of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)). The blessed personalities you named above are perfect human beings, their perfection is due to the divine mercy & divine grace, therefore they are wajhullah too.  Now we are above the level of ism (name) or asma Allah al husna (the beautiful names of God).

2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

You can’t call onto Muhammad using the most “merciful” term, because HE CANT HEAR YOU. 

Wama arsalnaka illa rehmatan lil a'lameen. 

و ما ارسلنك الا رحمت للعالمين

Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is also رؤوف رحيم 

On 10/21/2021 at 8:27 AM, Cool said:

 

لَقَدْ جَاءكُمْ رَسُولٌ مِّنْ أَنفُسِكُمْ عَزِيزٌ عَلَيْهِ مَا عَنِتُّمْ حَرِيصٌ عَلَيْكُم بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ رَؤُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ

9:128

This rehmat, the compassion, the mercy all are manifestation of divine names. I call Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) by his names which I know.

I view the very being (self) of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as  God's beautiful names, I view Him as wajhullah, yadullah etc. 

2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

because HE CANT HEAR YOU. 

He is not deaf & blind. He is not dead either. I used to extend salam to him minimum five times a day. He is made witness by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and a witness is neither blind nor deaf.

2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

you can use the term “merciful” to call ALLAH because he can hear you. 

Everything I see, shows me the manifestation of divine names. So please don't tell me what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is!! 

هو الله الذي لا اله الا هو عالم الغيب والشهادة هو الرحمن الحيم

 هو الله الذي لا اله الا هو الملك القدوس السلام المومن المهيمن العزيز الجبار المتكبر

سبحان الله عما يشركون

هو الله الخالق الباري المصور له الاسماء الحسني

يسبح له ما في السموات و الارض و هو العزيز الحكيم

2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

feel like you search through the whole Quran and only look for verses that can support your love for the Imam

ان هذا القرأن يهدي للتي هي اقوم 

I am a sinner, not really deserve to be called the lover of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام).

I am just trying to be in love with them.

2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Just becareful what “divine” attributes you associate with anyone other than Allah. 

 I am not "associating" divine attributes to anyone. They belongs solely to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

I am talking about manifestation of divine attributes, and that manifestation of divine attributes makes anything ismullah & wajhullah. 

Wassalam!!

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7 hours ago, Cool said:

So this word "Merciful", is not the Self itself. Do you agree with this?

Words are words. This is the first time any one has ever mentioned that calling a name doesn’t mean you are directing to ones self. It would make no sense that a persons name is not there self. I see what you mean but it’s not strong enough. 
 

If you call you mother and have a conversation with her you are talking to her Self. 
whether you called her by her name or someone else’s name doesn’t matter. 
what matters if she’s accepts being called by the name (which identifies herself) or by a neighbors name in which she would ignore because she is disrespected. 
 

so for the sake of the example her name is Fatima. 
 

but you call out Maryam, and she’s confused, she asks why are you calling her this, and she says please call me by my right name otherwise I don’t want to talk. Common sense says most people would be confused and not want to dialogue if you don’t directly call on to them. 
 

now, if you call her Fatima, mom, or even the word Beautiful, I’m sure they would reply. 
 

Now if you believe allahs names are also Muhammad and Ali, then I don’t know what to tell you. Ali and Muhammad themselves used Allahs name Allah, and/or his beautiful other names. 
you are changing the whole game up even for Shias Lol. 
 

like I said, I think you are trying too hard. 

7 hours ago, Cool said:

 

I am a sinner, not really deserve to be called the lover of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام).

I am just trying to be in love with them

We are all sinners, but do what you’re supposed to do when you sin. Ask Allah for forgiveness. They can’t do nothing for you. That’s the problem with Shiism is some grow up believing this divinity. And that’s why I told many people it’s haram to label yourself Sunni or Shia. 
 

if you’re a true Muslim learn what Allah wants, not what you want. And know Allah doesn’t need you. You need him. Not ahlul bayt. You should pray for them abd learn from them.

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Hi there

I'm interested in this discussion.  I never realised that Muslim people call on God using the name of Ali or Muhammed.

From reading what has been written, and excuse me if I have missunderstood, even when these human names are used it is as if God is being addressed.

The comments in these posts seem to be explaining how this can happen and how it works.  We know that we can only pray to God.  No one else is worthy of our prayers or can listen to them and respond to them approrpiately.

So when other 'names' are used, however 'pure' the human person they refer to is, some explination needs to be given.

Using the name of a human, even one who expresses the characteristcs of God (we have to say dimmly), seems inappropriate.  Even if we consider them to be 'alive' they can not stand in God's place.

It is interesting that the example of Jesus the Messiah has been brought into this discussion.  In the Trustworthy Injil John records the very words of Jesus the Messiah in chapter 14

12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus the Messiah is telling his followers to use his name in prayer.  There is no explination - just do it.

Jesus is clear in other places that the person we pray to is God and that it is God who hears and answers prayer.  So what is he doing here?

I would suggest that he is saying that using the name of Jesus in prayer is not a way to use a human name to address God, but using the very name of God to address God himself.  We are presenting our prayers directly to God because of the person, character and work of Jesus the Messiah.

The Name of Jesus the Messiah is like a personal invitaion to enter God's throne room.  God doesn't look on us and whether we have the criteria to enter, rather he looks at Jesus the Messiah who has given us access - the invitaion - which was achieved by his life, death and resurrection.

Here we have a mystery but one which has governed and empowered Christian prayer ever since these first followers.

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2 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

I'm interested in this discussion.  I never realised that Muslim people call on God using the name of Ali or Muhammed

Furthermore, shiism and it’s cultural non religious traits helps confuse non Muslims like Dave, in believing wrong things. 
Bad Sunnis/Shias make non Muslims also have a bad view on Islam. 
Human nature right?

 

but one who acknowledges and still promotes, I don’t think will be please with by Allah. 
 

so Dave, no Muslims do not call Allah by Muhammad or Ali. Apparently cool does but he is misguided about the issue. 
 

—— that is one of the main reasons the Quran was sent to clarify from people calling on to Jesus as god (or as a different name of god, to make @Cool understand) , you must address god by his name. And your explanation of the word Name is wrong. 

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2 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

I'm interested in this discussion.  I never realised that Muslim people call on God using the name of Ali or Muhammed

Furthermore, shiism and it’s cultural non religious traits helps confuse non Muslims like Dave, in believing wrong things. 
Bad Sunnis/Shias make non Muslims also have a bad view on Islam. 
Human nature right?

 

but one who acknowledges and still promotes, I don’t think will be please with by Allah. 
 

so Dave, no Muslims do not call Allah by Muhammad or Ali. Apparently cool does but he is misguided about the issue. 
 

—— that is one of the main reasons the Quran was sent to clarify from people calling on to Jesus as god (or as a different name of god, to make @Cool understand) , you must address god by his name. And your explanation of the word Name is wrong. 

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4 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

Hi there

I'm interested in this discussion.  I never realised that Muslim people call on God using the name of Ali or Muhammed.

From reading what has been written, and excuse me if I have missunderstood, even when these human names are used it is as if God is being addressed.

The comments in these posts seem to be explaining how this can happen and how it works.  We know that we can only pray to God.  No one else is worthy of our prayers or can listen to them and respond to them approrpiately.

So when other 'names' are used, however 'pure' the human person they refer to is, some explination needs to be given.

Using the name of a human, even one who expresses the characteristcs of God (we have to say dimmly), seems inappropriate.  Even if we consider them to be 'alive' they can not stand in God's place.

It is interesting that the example of Jesus the Messiah has been brought into this discussion.  In the Trustworthy Injil John records the very words of Jesus the Messiah in chapter 14

12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus the Messiah is telling his followers to use his name in prayer.  There is no explination - just do it.

Jesus is clear in other places that the person we pray to is God and that it is God who hears and answers prayer.  So what is he doing here?

I would suggest that he is saying that using the name of Jesus in prayer is not a way to use a human name to address God, but using the very name of God to address God himself.  We are presenting our prayers directly to God because of the person, character and work of Jesus the Messiah.

The Name of Jesus the Messiah is like a personal invitaion to enter God's throne room.  God doesn't look on us and whether we have the criteria to enter, rather he looks at Jesus the Messiah who has given us access - the invitaion - which was achieved by his life, death and resurrection.

Here we have a mystery but one which has governed and empowered Christian prayer ever since these first followers.

One of the main reasons Muhammad came was to erase the idea of calling upon Jesus as god, to reach god. As they have corrupted the message of Jesus about Allah. Furthermore @Cool is misguided about this fact. 
 

so Dave, no Muslims do not call God by human names. 

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4 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

From reading what has been written, and excuse me if I have missunderstood, even when these human names are used it is as if God is being addressed.

You have indeed misunderstood my friend. The names of human are not and cannot be the divine names. 

Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the name of messenger of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), a purified slave of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Ali (عليه السلام) is the name of one of the purified slave of Allah. 

Esa bin Maryam (Jesus) (عليه السلام), is the name of His messenger, a purified slave of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

What was said is that the names of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are not His essence or Self. But the "essence" or "self" of His purified slaves, are His beautiful names or manifestation of His beautiful names. 

There is a famous hadith often quoted:

من عرف نفسه فقد عرف ربه

(He who knows hiself knows His God)

Similarly, the ones who draw near to God Almighty, start reflecting the light of divine names. This is the perfection of their selves not their names. Their very being turns into the proof of God Almighty. 

A very profound verse, known as the verse of light, says this:

اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۚ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ ۖ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ ۖ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِنْ شَجَرَةٍ مُبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ ۚ نُورٌ عَلَىٰ نُورٍ ۗ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ {35}

[Shakir 24:35] Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, (and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star, lit from a blessed olive-tree, neither eastern nor western, the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not-- light upon light-- Allah guides to His light whom He pleases, and Allah sets forth parables for men, and Allah is Cognizant of all things.

This parable is presented by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself. There exist persons which, within themselves, are the examples of divine light. They don't have anything of their own, they 100% reflects the divine light, hence Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has mentioned them here as "His Light" (لنوره). 

Another profound verse, says this:

وَلِلَّهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ ۚ فَأَيْنَمَا تُوَلُّوا فَثَمَّ وَجْهُ اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ

2:115) To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is countenance (or the presence) of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.

We know God as الظاهر & الباطن (The Apparent/Outward & The Hidden/Inward).

Nearly all the religions of the world hold a common concept of God’s being invisible or unseen, they do not find it difficult either to comprehend that He is unseen. However, when it comes to the question of Allah’s being the ‘Manifest’ or the ‘Outward’ then definitely there are differences of interpretations on this matter.

Another verse mentions this:

فَلَنَقُصَّنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ بِعِلْمٍ ۖ وَمَا كُنَّا غَائِبِينَ {7}

[Shakir 7:7] Then most certainly We will relate to them with knowledge, and We were not absent.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has negated His absence in the above verse. So if He is not absent, then He must be manifestly present according to His name الظاهر.  And His manifestation is seen in the verses where He has ascribed to the actions of His perfect & purified slaves as His own. For example, when people offered their bay‘at (oath of allegiance) upon the Prophet’s hand, Allah said that “Allah’s hand is upon their hands.” (Holy Qur’an, 48:10) Similarly Allah says that “whosoever obeys the Prophet surely obeys Allah.” (Holy Qur’an, 4:80) Similarly Allah says that "and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote". (Holy Qur'an 8:17)

Having said that, what I have argued is that since the very essence or being of His slaves (I am not talking about their names) are nothing but the manifestation of divine names, so calling them must be tantamount to calling the divine names. And since we do not worship the names therefore there should be no allegation of shirk,  technically justified for those, who used to call these blessed personalities, for help/intercession etc. 

 

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4 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

would suggest that he is saying that using the name of Jesus in prayer is not a way to use a human name to address God, but using the very name of God to address God himself.  We are presenting our prayers directly to God because of the person, character and work of Jesus the Messiah.

Personally, I have no problem with that. Just make sure that you don't worship the name but the named. But my personal view means nothing, that is what you must know :).

 

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5 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

  I never realised that Muslim people call on God using the name of Ali or Muhammed.

If they're following the teachings of Islam then no they don't. If they're ignorant or misguided, then anything is possible... 

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6 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

If you call you mother and have a conversation with her you are talking to her Self. 

That would be a direct contact in the sense that I am either watching her speaking or listening to her directly or on telephone call. The direct contact happens when a thing comes in our hawas e khamsa (Five senses). Only that is considered direct contact with herself.

6 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

what matters if she’s accepts being called by the name (which identifies herself) or by a neighbors name in which she would ignore because she is disrespected

Assuming I never saw my mother, never listened to her, never touched her or known her smell, I only knew her name (assuming that she is no more in this world) and start calling her by that name, that is not the direct contact. I am just calling her "through" her name. I have no idea o herself.

6 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

but you call out Maryam, and she’s confused, she asks why are you calling her this, and she says please call me by my right name otherwise I don’t want to talk. Common sense says most people would be confused and not want to dialogue if you don’t directly call on to them. 
 

now, if you call her Fatima, mom, or even the word Beautiful, I’m sure they would reply. 
 

Now if you believe allahs names are also Muhammad and Ali, then I don’t know what to tell you. Ali and Muhammad themselves used Allahs name Allah, and/or his beautiful other names. 
you are changing the whole game up even for Shias Lol. 

I am expecting stupid analogies from you lol. 

I don't believe Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has human names.

And rest of your comment is useless as usual.

 

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1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

One of the main reasons Muhammad came was to erase the idea of calling upon Jesus as god, to reach god

So no one is calling Jesus as God. Not even Dave. He is very clear that Jesus (عليه السلام), in his whole being/self, is a manifestation of God's names. He agrees with the fact that no one worship the names made up of or composed of letters. God's essence or Self is not composed, He is not made up of letters. Don't you understand simple things?

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1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

Furthermore @Cool is misguided about this fact. 

If that is the case O believer of God, I am presenting before you a verse of Quran which negates the possibility of any sort of direct contact with God;

وَمَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَنْ يُكَلِّمَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَّا وَحْيًا أَوْ مِنْ وَرَاءِ حِجَابٍ أَوْ يُرْسِلَ رَسُولًا فَيُوحِيَ بِإِذْنِهِ مَا يَشَاءُ ۚ إِنَّهُ عَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ {51}

[Shakir 42:51] And it is not for any mortal that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a veil, or by sending a messenger and revealing by His permission what He pleases; surely He is High, Wise.

The hijab is in place even for His messengers. Common men neither receives revelation, nor angels comes to them, neither God talks with them behind veil like He talked with Musa (عليه السلام). He even addressed the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) through revelation when he was at the distance to two bows or even less (فكان قاب قوسين او ادني).

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2 hours ago, Cool said:

Assuming I never saw my mother, never listened to her, never touched her or known her smell, I only knew her name (assuming that she is no more in this world) and start calling her by that name, that is not the direct contact. I am just calling her "through" her name. I have no idea o herself

I’m not going to assume something that has never happened before.
if you’re using that assumption to compare to god thays why humans aren’t compared to Allah. Because of dumb examples like this. 
 

But it’s okay 

2 hours ago, Cool said:

Personally, I have no problem with that. Just make sure that you don't worship the name but the named. But my personal view means nothing, that is what you must know :).

Personally i think you should of payed attention in 3rd grade. I had to define that the word Name is an adjective for you. 
So you don’t need to tell Dave not worship the Name but the Named because NOBODY on earth can worship a WORD  

when you use the word Allah you are calling out a NOUN, who CAN be worshipped. 
 

when you use the word Ali you are calling out Ali. 

I have understood transmission calling for Ali to Go to Allah messages. 
but you are on another level 

 

ali and Muhammad have their own name, Allah his own name. 
 

nobody worships the name, just the named. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. But only thing people want to hear from you is how you justify Allah (self, since you need a breakdown) can be called Muhammad or Ali. 
 

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"The Absolute Existence as such is Rahman as well as Rahim, Nur (Light) and Allah. His being Rahman is not different from His being Rahim. A person occupying that highest position of gnosis in which his heart is enlightened by Allah Himself, not by His glory, will himself be an 'exalted name' of Allah and at the same time will be enlightened by the light of the 'exalted name'.

Such a person could only be he to whose heart the Qur'an was revealed and to whom Gabriel used to come. The glory revealed to his heart comprised all glories. This person was the Holy Prophet who personally was the most exalted name of Allah. The Imams are also reported to have said: "We are the beautiful names of Allah."

https://www.al-islam.org/light-within-me-mutahhari-tabatabai-khomeini/part-33-allah-and-his-glory

Those who want to understand, go through the above and the following articles.

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/prophet-muhammad-s-divine-mercy-worlds-mansour-leghaei

 

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4 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

when you use the word Allah you are calling out a NOUN, who CAN be worshipped. 
 

when you use the word Ali you are calling out Ali. 

O believer of.God!!!

Whatever you call Him through, is a thing "made up of" something. Allah in that sense is made up of or composed of letters A+L+ L+ A+ H, if you are worshiping such thing then you are worshiping a thing that is composed.

So you have made your Lord a composed thing and you too made your Lord a carried thing when you claim the He is literally sitting on the throne, that throne which is carried by angels.

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1 hour ago, Cool said:

The Imams are also reported to have said: "We are the beautiful names of Allah."

They are, just not the way you explain it. 

 

1 hour ago, Cool said:

O believer of.God!!!

Whatever you call Him through, is a thing "made up of" something. Allah in that sense is made up of or composed of letters A+L+ L+ A+ H, if you are worshiping such thing then you are worshiping a thing that is composed.

So you have made your Lord a composed thing and you too made your Lord a carried thing when you claim the He is literally sitting on the throne, that throne which is carried by angels.

You are so slow. He is not letters, his name is composed of letters. So is every word Lol

i feel you are joking with me, at the same time I feel bad wallah. 
 

allah yehdeek inshallah Allah will erase the confusion. Reread this whole entire post. Slowly. Breathe when you do. 

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8 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

But only thing people want to hear from you is how you justify Allah (self, since you need a breakdown) can be called Muhammad or Ali

If this is your question, then it means you have read nothing, understood nothing and you are even responding without reading & understanding any of my comment. 

Have you ever realized what is your essence/self? Your name?  You don't need to call yourself "through" anything. Neither you need to name yourself to know who you are.

Just look into your self and know something about it. 

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39 minutes ago, Cool said:

If this is your question, then it means you have read nothing, understood nothing and you are even responding without reading & understanding any of my comment. 

Have you ever realized what is your essence/self? Your name?  You don't need to call yourself "through" anything. Neither you need to name yourself to know who you are.

Just look into your self and know something about it. 

I’ve read word for word all your replies. And by now I’m surprised you haven’t woke up. 
 

I told you go back to 3rd grade this is simple logic wallahi. Even a dog knows that when his name is called, he will listen to you. 
 

let’s say everyone is just SELF without a name, how would you address them???????????????

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4 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

read word for word all your replies. And by now I’m surprised you haven’t woke up. 

If this was the case, you would have not said this:

13 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

But only thing people want to hear from you is how you justify Allah (self, since you need a breakdown) can be called Muhammad or Ali. 

Lets take you back to the very first page:

On 10/18/2021 at 8:08 AM, Cool said:

The difference I can see is that the "ism (name)" Allah, is not the Wajood. While the wajood of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Imam Ali (عليه السلام) or rest of the Aimma (عليه السلام), is the ism of Wajib al-Wujood (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

And here by wajood, I mean essence or self or zaat. 

Now let me give you more circles. 

a) Jesus (عليه السلام) mentioned the name i.e., Ahmed, (of Prophet) prior to the physical manifestation of the named.

b) Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) mentioned the name Yahya, prior to the physical manifestation of the named. 

c) If name & the named are same, your thirst must have quenched with taking the name water, your tongue should have burnt by taking the name fire, you must have felt the sweetness by taking the name honey. 

d) there exist in this universe, things which have no name. So this means that existence itself, is not in need of names. Names are mere words for identifying a thing. 

And I can continue to go on and on...

Now go back again and see what your aslaaf have said:

On 10/18/2021 at 10:27 AM, Cool said:

Ibn Taimiyyah struggled to get rid of this matter lol, let me share his statement:

لأن أسماء الله من كلامه، وكلام الله غير مخلوق، بل هو المتكلم به، وهو المسمى لنفسه بما فيه من الأسماء

(Because the names of God are from His words, and the words of God are not created. Rather, he is the one who speaks with them, and he is the one who names himself with the names that are in it)

 

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1 hour ago, Cool said:

c) If name & the named are same, your thirst must have quenched with taking the name water, your tongue should have burnt by taking the name fire, you must have felt the sweetness by taking the name honey

What if I tell you I do quench in thirst when I say water, or be scared when I think he’ll fire, and crave sweetness when I say honey. 

 

6 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

let’s say everyone is just SELF without a name, how would you address them???????????????

Simple question that could end everything?

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On 10/23/2021 at 5:44 PM, Guest Guest said:

What if I tell you I do quench in thirst when I say water, or be scared when I think he’ll fire, and crave sweetness when I say honey. 

Well you need to go to a doctor then.

On 10/23/2021 at 5:44 PM, Guest Guest said:

let’s say everyone is just SELF without a name, how would you address them???????????????

Again Stupid.... 

How speechless person call others. 

And if you are talking about God, here is a phrase:

يا هو يا من لا هو الا هو

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On 10/22/2021 at 8:47 AM, Guest Guest said:

Words are words. This is the first time any one has ever mentioned that calling a name doesn’t mean you are directing to ones self. It would make no sense that a persons name is not there self. I see what you mean but it’s not strong enough. 
 

If you call you mother and have a conversation with her you are talking to her Self. 
whether you called her by her name or someone else’s name doesn’t matter. 
what matters if she’s accepts being called by the name (which identifies herself) or by a neighbors name in which she would ignore because she is disrespected. 
 

so for the sake of the example her name is Fatima. 
 

but you call out Maryam, and she’s confused, she asks why are you calling her this, and she says please call me by my right name otherwise I don’t want to talk. Common sense says most people would be confused and not want to dialogue if you don’t directly call on to them. 
 

now, if you call her Fatima, mom, or even the word Beautiful, I’m sure they would reply. 
 

Now if you believe allahs names are also Muhammad and Ali, then I don’t know what to tell you. Ali and Muhammad themselves used Allahs name Allah, and/or his beautiful other names. 
you are changing the whole game up even for Shias Lol. 
 

like I said, I think you are trying too hard. 

We are all sinners, but do what you’re supposed to do when you sin. Ask Allah for forgiveness. They can’t do nothing for you. That’s the problem with Shiism is some grow up believing this divinity. And that’s why I told many people it’s haram to label yourself Sunni or Shia. 
 

if you’re a true Muslim learn what Allah wants, not what you want. And know Allah doesn’t need you. You need him. Not ahlul bayt. You should pray for them abd learn from them.

Allah's names are the ninety-nine known names. Not the names of his servants. Also, when you call to Allah, you call him directly. Not his servants 

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We must unite together and form a new identity and become independent of the current made up theology of ahlo bait. We worship Allah ( (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) ) not his servants. They never taught such things eather. No where in nahjul balaga does Immam Ali ((عليه السلام)) associate with Allah. He preaches absolute oneness of Allah.

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