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In the Name of God بسم الله

Challenge to Ghali ideas by scholars picks up (Al-Islaah Team)

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OsEUaAkFcc&ab_channel=AlIslaah 

 

Al-Islah Team w/ Ali Hur Kamoonpuri has been getting lots of attacks mostly by being the "unnamed" reformist group. They themselves accept the reformist title but say they are only promoting the ideas that are taught among higher hawza studies. 

 

 

Edited by pakistanyar
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Salam!

This guy is clearly a muqassir in technical terms.

Anyone who says that Imams are not witness and advicate that there is no evidence in Quran for them being witness over creation, and there is no hadith where they claimed themselves as witness, is totally ignorant of Quran and hadith.

I would like to challenge him on the subject that Imams are witness over people & Prophet s a.w is witness over them. And I can prove it to him this case through Quran & hadith both. 

Wassalam!!

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While you are laughing, a more appropriate place to laugh is the ignorance of the person you quoted, now listen him in the following video:

https://youtu.be/xZnOZKFiA94

He totally ignored Asif bin Barqiyyah, the person who possess علم من الكتاب according to Quran and who brought the throne of Queen within the blink of an eye. 

He totally ignored the verses of Quran which mentions Jesus (عليه السلام) bring back dead to life, curing people, making statue of bird and breathing into it the spirit etc. 

He also ignored the capacity of a person who is the misdaq of و من عنده علم الكتاب، who is introduced in Quran as witness of prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and asking bravely to bring evidence:

اِئْتُونِي بِكِتَابٍ مِّن قَبْلِ هَذَا أَوْ أَثَارَةٍ مِّنْ عِلْمٍ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

46:4 

Well, I can see his ignorance and can know where he is coming from. Perhaps he has sold his believes for a little money, hence he becomes the misdaq of this verse:

وَتَجْعَلُونَ رِزْقَكُمْ أَنَّكُمْ تُكَذِّبُونَ

56:82

 

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20 hours ago, pakistanyar said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OsEUaAkFcc&ab_channel=AlIslaah 

 

Al-Islah Team w/ Ali Hur Kamoonpuri has been getting lots of attacks mostly by being the "unnamed" reformist group. They themselves accept the reformist title but say they are only promoting the ideas that are taught among higher hawza studies. 

 

 

Just came across their channel.

Following are some things they stressed on:

1. No wilayah Takwini

2. Today things considered as non negotiable beliefs are ghuluw

3. Imam isn't part of zaruriyat e deen. Allah will accept faith of muslims without imamah.

Lol

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Very shallow.. here’s another example 

 

My counter argument from Quran: just one Ayayt which dashes this whole baseless and overly simplistic assertions.

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذ ظَّلَمُوا أَنفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيمًا  ‎﴿النساء: ٦٤﴾‏
 

We did not send any apostle but to be obeyed by Allah’s leave. Had they, when they wronged themselves, come to you and pleaded to Allah for forgiveness, and the Apostle had pleaded for them [to Allah]for forgiveness, they would have surely found Allah all-clement, all-merciful. (64)

You Kamoonpuri clan; back to the drawing board young man (from FIFA 2020).

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Mr. Irfani, that ayah that you have quoted is for the time the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).w. was present amongst the people at that time physically. If you cannot understand that basic concept and principle of the Quran, you need to broaden your study of the Quran!

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On 1/24/2022 at 3:26 AM, abbasbil said:

Mr. Irfani, that ayah that you have quoted is for the time the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).w. was present amongst the people at that time physically. If you cannot understand that basic concept and principle of the Quran, you need to broaden your study of the Quran!

Where does it exactly say that it is meant only when the Prophet was present physically and no other time? 

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there are reports from sunni sources that the verse is still applicable even when Prophet Peace be upon him and his family is alive in his grave  .                           

1. Imam Ibn Kathir (rah) endorsing Tawassul in tafsir of above verse:

 

وقد ذكر جماعة منهم الشيخ أبو منصور الصباغ في كتابه الشامل الحكاية المشهورة عن العتبي قال : كنت جالسا عند قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فجاء أعرابي فقال : السلام عليك يا رسول الله سمعت الله يقول " ولو أنهم إذ ظلموا أنفسهم جاءوك فاستغفروا الله واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما " وقد جئتك مستغفرا لذنبي مستشفعا بك إلى ربي ثم أنشأ يقول : يا خير من دفنت بالقاع أعظمه فطاب من طيبهن القاع والأكم نفسي الفداء لقبر أنت ساكنه فيه العفاف وفيه الجود والكرم ثم انصرف الأعرابي فغلبتني عيني فرأيت النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم في النوم فقال : يا عتبي الحق الأعرابي فبشره أن الله قد غفر له " .

 

Translation: Jama'at (Many scholars) have stated this tradition. One of them is Abu Mansur al-Sabbagh who writes in his book Al-Shamil Al-Hikayat-ul-mashhurah that, according to ‘Utbi, once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave when a bedouin came and he said, “Peace be on you, O Allah’s Messenger. I have heard that Allah says: (O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful.’ I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as my intermediary before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose.” Then he recited these verses: “O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment) of mercy and forgiveness.” Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). He said to me: O ‘Utbi, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allah has forgiven his sins. [Ibn Kathir, Tafsir-ul-Qur'an al-azim Volume 004, Page No. 140, Under the Verse 4:64]                                                                                                                                                                   

4. Imam Qurtubi (rah) on Tawassul:


روى أبو صادق عن علي قال : قدم علينا أعرابي بعدما دفنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بثلاثة أيام , فرمى بنفسه على قبر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وحثا على رأسه من ترابه ; فقال : قلت يا رسول الله فسمعنا قولك , ووعيت عن الله فوعينا عنك , وكان فيما أنزل الله عليك " ولو أنهم إذ ظلموا أنفسهم " الآية , وقد ظلمت نفسي وجئتك تستغفر لي . فنودي من القبر إنه قد غفر لك .

Its related from Abu Sadiq (رضي الله عنه) that Imam Ali (رضي الله عنه) said: "Three days after burying the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) The Araabi did come and did throw himself on the grave of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him), he took the earth and threw it on his head. He said: "Ya Rasulallah! (Peace Be Upon Him) You did speak and we did hear, you learned from Allah and we did learn from you. Between those things which Allah did send you, is following: (4:64) I am the one, which is a sinner and now I did came to you, so that you may ask for me." After that a call from the grave did came: "Theres no doubt, you are forgiven!" [Tafsir al-Qurtubi, al-Jami li Ahkam al-Quran Volume 006, Page No. 439, Under the Verse, 4:64]

 

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1 hour ago, uar786 said:

there are reports from sunni sources that the verse is still applicable even when Prophet Peace be upon him and his family is alive in his grave  .                           

1. Imam Ibn Kathir (rah) endorsing Tawassul in tafsir of above verse:

 

وقد ذكر جماعة منهم الشيخ أبو منصور الصباغ في كتابه الشامل الحكاية المشهورة عن العتبي قال : كنت جالسا عند قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فجاء أعرابي فقال : السلام عليك يا رسول الله سمعت الله يقول " ولو أنهم إذ ظلموا أنفسهم جاءوك فاستغفروا الله واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما " وقد جئتك مستغفرا لذنبي مستشفعا بك إلى ربي ثم أنشأ يقول : يا خير من دفنت بالقاع أعظمه فطاب من طيبهن القاع والأكم نفسي الفداء لقبر أنت ساكنه فيه العفاف وفيه الجود والكرم ثم انصرف الأعرابي فغلبتني عيني فرأيت النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم في النوم فقال : يا عتبي الحق الأعرابي فبشره أن الله قد غفر له " .

 

Translation: Jama'at (Many scholars) have stated this tradition. One of them is Abu Mansur al-Sabbagh who writes in his book Al-Shamil Al-Hikayat-ul-mashhurah that, according to ‘Utbi, once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave when a bedouin came and he said, “Peace be on you, O Allah’s Messenger. I have heard that Allah says: (O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful.’ I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as my intermediary before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose.” Then he recited these verses: “O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment) of mercy and forgiveness.” Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). He said to me: O ‘Utbi, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allah has forgiven his sins. [Ibn Kathir, Tafsir-ul-Qur'an al-azim Volume 004, Page No. 140, Under the Verse 4:64]                                                                                                                                                                   

4. Imam Qurtubi (rah) on Tawassul:


روى أبو صادق عن علي قال : قدم علينا أعرابي بعدما دفنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بثلاثة أيام , فرمى بنفسه على قبر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وحثا على رأسه من ترابه ; فقال : قلت يا رسول الله فسمعنا قولك , ووعيت عن الله فوعينا عنك , وكان فيما أنزل الله عليك " ولو أنهم إذ ظلموا أنفسهم " الآية , وقد ظلمت نفسي وجئتك تستغفر لي . فنودي من القبر إنه قد غفر لك .

Its related from Abu Sadiq (رضي الله عنه) that Imam Ali (رضي الله عنه) said: "Three days after burying the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) The Araabi did come and did throw himself on the grave of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him), he took the earth and threw it on his head. He said: "Ya Rasulallah! (Peace Be Upon Him) You did speak and we did hear, you learned from Allah and we did learn from you. Between those things which Allah did send you, is following: (4:64) I am the one, which is a sinner and now I did came to you, so that you may ask for me." After that a call from the grave did came: "Theres no doubt, you are forgiven!" [Tafsir al-Qurtubi, al-Jami li Ahkam al-Quran Volume 006, Page No. 439, Under the Verse, 4:64]

 

One of the narration that no sunni scholar not even Ibn Taymiyyah denies it and have all accepted it's authenticity is the following narration:

Tradition of ‘Uthman ibn Hunayf1

إن رجلاً ضريراً اتى إلى النبي (صلى الله عليه وأله) فقال ادعُ الله ان يُعافينى فقال إن شئت دعوت وإن شئت صبرت وهو خير قال فادعه ، فامره أن يتوضأ فيُحسن وضوه ويُصلّي ركعتين ويدعو بهذا الدعاء: اللهم إني أسالك ، وأتوجه بك إلى ربي في حاجتي لتقضي ، اللهم شفعه في. قال ابن حنيف فوالله ما تفرقا وطال بنا الحديث حتى دخل علينا كان لم يكُن به ضُرّ.

“A blind person approached the Holy Prophet (S) and said: ‘Request Allah to cure me.’ The Holy Prophet (S) replied: ‘If you wish so I will pray for you but be patient for that is much better.’ The blind man asked the Holy Prophet (S) to pray for him. The Holy Prophet (S) ordered him to take proper Wuzu and then recite two Raka't (units) of salat and this ‘Dua’: O’ Lord! I request from Thee; I pay attention to Thee through (the channel) of your prophet Muhammad, Your blessed prophet. O Muhammad, I turn to my Lord for the fulfilment of my need through you so that my need is answered.

O Lord, accept his intercession for me….”

This whole denying of Tawassul for at least for Sunnis started from Ibn Taymiyya and it is still ongoing, before that no one really had any problem of it.

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But as for Shias it is really not that clear and simply. Read it here

For us the most important way of supplication and general one is the direct supplication to God that is found in all supplications of Quran and most of our supplications found in our books. All the Imams (عليه السلام) emphasize in this type of supplication. 

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