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In the Name of God بسم الله

why would muslims prefer to live in the west over sharia countries?

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"you muslims believe in the superiority of sharia law and vouch for imposing it upon others yet you yourselves would prefer to live in the west since it's pro choice and freedom and not oppressive, and despite their not being an islamic country that implements 'correct' sharia law, surely, iran and saudi arabia are at least closer to sharia law than the 'corrupt' west, so why don't you leave?"

Is our apparent hypocrisy the only answer to this question?

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Assalaamun Alaykum,

The grass is always greener when your own house is in disorder.

If we the Ummah had allowed the true leaders to run the ummah from the start, absolutely 100% most of the world would be rushing to live under the governorship of the Prophet(saaw) and Imams((عليه السلام)) of Ahlul-Bayt((عليه السلام)). Instead because our own house is not in order we are looking for comfort in the worldly sphere.

Our house the Ummah will only be in order when 'The Household((عليه السلام))' are given their true rights.

image.thumb.png.0ba3b87f991051e1b3fc77a94e6000ff.png

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The West are NOT perfect, however:

Because the countries in the West are more organized in many different ways.

Because in the west you get treated with respected regardless of faith.

Because in the West, you can be of any faith, any race, any culture.

Because in the West, there is more opportunity to educated and for the youth to become successful e.g doctors

Because in the West, the education, tax, environmental department, transport systems etc are more organised and developed.

Because in the West, even dogs are treated well.

Because in the West, there are organizations to help the needy, homeless, etc

Because in the West, they have well Fire Fighters, better hospitals, the police are better equipped and trained etc.

Because in the West, there is better court system and better access to legal aid.

Because in the West, there is welfare support for people with difficulties.

I can go and on.

In Our countries (muslim countries), always constant fights between different sect of the religions. Our countries are filled with injustice and oppression. Our countries, if you want something to be done, you may have to bribe the officers/person in charge. You more likely to face discrimination if you are of different race, religion etc. In Our countries, nothing is organized.

Some of the kids/youth have to go to work at early age to make a living due family situation and no government support.

I would rather live in a the West Country, ruled by Atheists rather than to live in Muslim Country.

(e.g. look at my country Afghanistan and these thugs/criminals talk about implementing sharia laws).

If I were to be born as a Dog or any other animal, I would rather live in the West because there is better change of being treated appropriately 

The So called "Shariah Law" has been implemented in many wrong ways, all its been used to cut hands, to cut heads, to oppress women etc. Either the Shariah Law needs to be looked at and see what's applicable in current society or to be interrupted correctly. E.g. if a law is seen to be inhumane, then it should not be applied.

 

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Hmm.. I can safely say there is a very very large proportion (the majority) of Muslims do NOT prefer to live in the west. Perhaps your perception is based on the statistics of those already there or from societies where they perceive the west to be the only escape from their current "situations", many of them likely created by the very western countries they escape to.

For those who I know who do not agree with being in the west from a spiritual threat perspective, they say they find it difficult to leave because:

1. They are used to the higher standard of living

2. They feel they are more likely to get better compensation for their skills/investments/studies/brains/capabilities in the west than in the east

3. They are intimidated by the "mediocrity" and "inefficiency" and "corruption" back home.

4. Their children will absolutely refuse to go and live in a "3rd world country" or any place outside the west because of their perceptions of these places.

5. They feel they are alienated from the culture and norms back home and would stand out and never become part of the community as they have lived all/most of their life in the west.

etc.

6. They come from places/cultures of extreme self loathing and excessive admiration for all things western and so it would be a "downgrade" to go back there and their societies would never understand their reasons for doing so.

But it takes a very high level of frankness to admit some of these things. My relatives admit some of these in private to some of us, but their general stance to the rest of the world is "there is so much freedom, amenities, etc here, something we could never get in the middle east, east, or elsewhere".

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Looking at the list @Meedy and @ummulbaneen have writen I wonder what the source of these values is?

Why are they not found in so called "Muslim Countries"?  Is just because as @pseudonym says because the teaching of the Prophet and the family of the Prophet have not been applied or is there a deeper more underlying reason?

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Look at the most successful(Subjective in terms of mark value, revenue, profit or product) their Code of conduct (Value System) might look very appealing - regardless of age/race/religion/caste/orientation and Religion(way of life). However ALL the above is to accomplish one purpose - Dollar/Yen/Euro . 

Master keeps the Slaves happy to Extract the most Value for its benefit. So, be fooled by the superficial Peace/Harmony/appearance of law and order at the lower levels of society or corporations. Most of it is transient and will disappear if goals shift or in economic downturn/depression. 

You recognize real friends in times of need. Similarly you will judge the system in economic crisis. Every man for himself at that time. Superficial prosperity keeps the real Value System from been recognized. Countries keep the Slaves happy( Allow everything)  so Tax revenue can increase. 

Immigrants may be welcomed when in need of intellectual or physical work resources. Once not needed, they will be discarded. or immigration restricted. Once every open community and praised for open arms and acceptance will now be looked as closed communities. Its all Subjective and time dependent. So, don't get carried away with what you see a a point in time in communities and countries. 

Have a long term and holistic view.

The question asked is constructed in   a way that it solicits or addresses a Silo/ a particular aspect. Not the Entire System ( Way of life ) - Social, Moral, Economic, political and Governance . Judge it by what in projected around the world. Peace or War?  It only reflects the Leadership still the citizens should protest and not choose these leaders unless they are oppressed/slaved by forces which install these leaders. 

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https://youtu.be/a0pt4KprsZo

Living in west is highly dangerous because you are living under Taghout. The only option is that you compensate, but that is a very difficult target to achieve. One must, must move to a Muslim country if he is unable to "compensate". 

 

 

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On 9/26/2021 at 1:56 AM, ummulbaneen said:

Hmm.. I can safely say there is a very very large proportion (the majority) of Muslims do NOT prefer to live in the west. Perhaps your perception is based on the statistics of those already there or from societies where they perceive the west to be the only escape from their current "situations", many of them likely created by the very western countries they escape to.

For those who I know who do not agree with being in the west from a spiritual threat perspective, they say they find it difficult to leave because:

1. They are used to the higher standard of living

2. They feel they are more likely to get better compensation for their skills/investments/studies/brains/capabilities in the west than in the east

3. They are intimidated by the "mediocrity" and "inefficiency" and "corruption" back home.

4. Their children will absolutely refuse to go and live in a "3rd world country" or any place outside the west because of their perceptions of these places.

5. They feel they are alienated from the culture and norms back home and would stand out and never become part of the community as they have lived all/most of their life in the west.

etc.

6. They come from places/cultures of extreme self loathing and excessive admiration for all things western and so it would be a "downgrade" to go back there and their societies would never understand their reasons for doing so.

But it takes a very high level of frankness to admit some of these things. My relatives admit some of these in private to some of us, but their general stance to the rest of the world is "there is so much freedom, amenities, etc here, something we could never get in the middle east, east, or elsewhere".

Yes. These are true factors but they are Islamically not valid enough reasons to live in West. One should move to a Muslim country even if he has to give up all these "benefits" of living in the west. That's because living under Taghout is unislamic, extremely problematic and dangerous - unless one can compensate....as explained by Sheikh Shakelesfer. 

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9 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

Looking at the list @Meedy and have writen I wonder what the source of these values is?

Why are they not found in so called "Muslim Countries"?  Is just because as says because the teaching of the Prophet and the family of the Prophet have not been applied or is there a deeper more underlying reason?

 I agree with what pseudonym said.

In my opinion and I am not be right.

The teaching of the Prophet and the family of the Prophet have not been applied or if applied, it has not been applied correctly. So that's one part of it.

Perhaps it has not been interrupted correctly either.

The countries were not stable to do so e.g. constant changes of Ruler (From Dictator to Monarchy etc). So the instability of the country is another part of it.

The Politics is also plays a part of it e.g. lets not implement this rule because we'll lose the election or people would turn against. How an Islamic country will operate, will there be elections, which sect of religion will be in charge, etc

You have different Sect e.g. Sunni, Shia - Who is going to be in charge, whose teaching/rules/interruption will apply. Example, they may all agree on certain rule/teaching of Prophet and the family of the Prophet but will they all agree on its interpretations, its meaning and how its applied.

Muslims people from some countries would escape to Western countries if they could and understandably why E.g. People in Yemen, In Afghanistan.

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This debate alone helps us to understand that leadership is only something that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) should oversee. Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows his creatures and knows full well who should rule. 

We have a narration in which the Prophet Muhammad(saaw) said about Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) and i'm paraphrasing as I can't remember it fully (maybe someone can help with the narration), 'If they accept you as their leader after me although they won't, they would all have gone into paradise altogether'.

It is vital who is in charge and the outcome of the subjects as a result of that leadership. If Prophets((عليه السلام).) were accepted by their people, paradise would be full as the shortcomings of us ordinary people can Insha'Allah be forgiven, but if we turn away and choose a path other than what Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has decreed then of course we have to lie in the bed we have made.

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Most Muslim countries that supposedly "enforce sharia law" are mostly corrupt, or have worse living standards due to bad system. Afghanistan is a nice example of a country ruled by a supposed "Islamic regime", while the Taliban throws acid in the faces of women that attend school, trades opium, and oppresses Afghanistan's minorities. Another one would be Iraq, You can totally practice Shia Islam under ISIS.

It really doesn't matter what country you live in. As long as you can practice Islam freely, You can live in any country. There is no such concept as an "Islamic country" that you must move to just because there are supposed "Muslims" in it. Are you going to ask people in Lebanon to leave Lebanon because it's split between different religious groups?

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On 9/25/2021 at 4:23 AM, zahralzu said:

"you muslims believe in the superiority of sharia law and vouch for imposing it upon others yet you yourselves would prefer to live in the west since it's pro choice and freedom and not oppressive, and despite their not being an islamic country that implements 'correct' sharia law, surely, iran and saudi arabia are at least closer to sharia law than the 'corrupt' west, so why don't you leave?"

Is our apparent hypocrisy the only answer to this question?

It's a First World versus Third World or living standard thing—not so much a Sharīʿ versus non-Sharīʿ implementation thing—sharīʿah in its totality isn't implemented anywhere in the world during the present time— Iran is the closet thing we have to full implementation/execution

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8 hours ago, pseudonym said:

Sorry to bring a bit of gloom to this thread, in the very near future living in the West is going to be a nightmare.. surely we can see this is coming round the corner... 

what's around the corner hehe

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Sadly there's nothing funny that's coming, ask yourself this question and think about it, think of places like Yemen right now and other places like Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and pretty much all the middle east, if tests like they've had are what it takes to win favour with Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), then those of us who have been living comfortable lives in the West aren't going to get an easy test are we.... Maybe our test will be even more severe,, one I am pretty sure of is that we will experience what it feels like to feel true hunger,, so bad maybe many will die from starvation... Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows better ......

[67.2] Who created death and life that He may try you, which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,

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On 9/27/2021 at 12:48 AM, Maisam Haider said:

The only option is that you compensate, but that is a very difficult target to achieve. One must, must move to a Muslim country if he is unable to "compensate". 

 

On 9/27/2021 at 12:53 AM, Maisam Haider said:

That's because living under Taghout is unislamic, extremely problematic and dangerous - unless one can compensate

Doesn't God call us to live for him wherever we are found?  Jesus the Messiah told his followers to be 'salt' and 'light' in a dark world.  To be 'a city set on a hill' for all to see.  The Trustworthy Injil goes on to describe followers of Jesus as 'Stars shining in the night sky'.

Whether I live in the West or the East in a so called Muslim country or a so called Christian country, God wants me to live a holy life that reflects his righteousness.  Wherever we live in this world Tagout (satan??) is roaming freely.  We need God's help to stand for him against corruption and immorality.  That is way he comes as the Holy Spirit to live in those who seek to shine and follow and him through Jesus the Messiah.

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On 9/28/2021 at 1:30 AM, Momoshiki Ōtsutsuki said:

Most Muslim countries that supposedly "enforce sharia law" are mostly corrupt, or have worse living standards due to bad system.

God's law as summerized in the Sharia of Moses.  It speaks against courruption and sets up a fair and equal system.  See Exodus 20

And God spoke all these words:

‘I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

‘You shall have no other gods before me.

‘You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

‘You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

‘Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labour and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 ‘Honour your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 ‘You shall not murder.

14 ‘You shall not commit adultery.

15 ‘You shall not steal.

16 ‘You shall not give false testimony against your neighbour.

17 ‘You shall not covet your neighbour’s house. You shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.’

Jesus the Messiah summarized this sharia by saying  (Trustworthy Injil Matthew chapter 22)

37 Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’

I'm sure we would all want to live a a country where this sharia is practiced.

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Salaam to all,

Well, I totally agree with what brother Dave is saying here, which is what all believers should be doing, which is being a shining light/good example etc to everyone around, however, I need to mention that the main objection about living in the west, especially if you are wise to what goes on with tax money, is you have to as much as possible be against what is happening.

There are multiple layers towards being against something, the very least is being against it in your heart even though you cannot speak or act against it for whatever reasons, and the far other end of the spectrum is to be like Imam Hussein (عليه السلام). Most people will fall in the lower end of the spectrum, and that's okay, we're not all created the same. The problem with living in the west is to live there comfortably, knowing what's going on with the tax dollars and having a blind eye to it. How we can compensate for that can be in a manner such as donating the same amount of money you have paid in taxes to feed and house poor people that have been wronged, but compensation also involves the healing of the soul and the making right to the people that have been harmed. How exactly that is done, I'm not sure. but there is damage done to The soul when you know what's going on and you sit idly by and you're okay with it, you don't even feel or believe against it in your heart. You're just going about day to day life and not caring. That is really where the problem is, is if you are okay and comfortable.

W/s

Edited by PureExistence1
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Posted (edited)
On 9/25/2021 at 3:23 AM, zahralzu said:

"you muslims believe in the superiority of sharia law and vouch for imposing it upon others yet you yourselves would prefer to live in the west since it's pro choice and freedom and not oppressive, and despite their not being an islamic country that implements 'correct' sharia law, surely, iran and saudi arabia are at least closer to sharia law than the 'corrupt' west, so why don't you leave?"

Is our apparent hypocrisy the only answer to this question?

because all Muslim countries today are terrible compared to the west in every way possible

Plus there are huge discrimination issues based on sect ethnicity language etc

 

I agree its 100 % hypocrisy but I do it because of dunya lets be honest 

Edited by Panzerwaffe
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There are some Muslim countries that are rich and offer a comfortable lifestyle to those that live in it, but they are the exception as most Muslim countries are poor.

Brunei, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, Oman come to mind as rich countries. 

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6 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Brunei, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, Oman come to mind as rich countries. 

 

Reminds me of this picture. All the Arab leaders below (except Morocco) are either had parents who were put in power by Britain or are currently kept in power with British support.

image.png

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Posted (edited)
On 9/25/2021 at 4:23 AM, zahralzu said:

"you muslims believe in the superiority of sharia law and vouch for imposing it upon others yet you yourselves would prefer to live in the west since it's pro choice and freedom and not oppressive, and despite their not being an islamic country that implements 'correct' sharia law, surely, iran and saudi arabia are at least closer to sharia law than the 'corrupt' west, so why don't you leave?"

Is our apparent hypocrisy the only answer to this question?

A muslim would prefer living in a place where the society functions based on Haqq. Haqq means truth, justice, and putting things in their proper place according to their real and not perceived (by the society) value. The Sharia is only a means (not the goal) to get to a society which is based on Haqq. When you say 'Sharia', you should remember that the real Sharia is based on authentic hadith from Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)), not the fake 'Sharia' put into practice by groups like Taliban and ISIS. 

A society that implements Haqq based on teaching of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)) on a society wide level and in a comprehensive way doesn't exist currently. As others have said, the closest thing we have to it is Iran, but there are issues there too, since Iran is living in a perpetual state of war with the Taghuti powers of the world and so cannot implement it fully and completely. The main reason why is because they have to spend such a large amount of energy / resources on survival and defense (because they are constantly under attack), they cannot use those resources in the way that they are meant to be used, Islamically, i.e. to improve the general conditions of the people in their own country. 

So the short answer to the question is that many Western countries implement parts of the Haqq that help the society to prosper economically, and this is part of Islam. They would never call it Islamic, but this is what it is. Things such as medicare, social security, the community college system, the 'social safety net', etc. The fact that elderly people are given free medical care (practically free) and given a salary by the govt means that their children have less of a burden vis a via their older parents and can use those resources that normally would have gone to this to help their own children and make their family life better, economically. The fact that Western Countries invest a great deal of money and resources in making post secondary education (college and university) available to the masses and not just a few extremely brilliant and / or children of the wealthy only increases the overall education level of the society. When the overall education level of the society is increased, the society prospers economically. 

It prospers in many ways. First is because an educated person is a better employee and is more capable of being mentally flexible and adapting to the challenges of working in a company where goals and priorities are constantly shifting is response to market forces. They are also better able to learn and retain new information that they need to do their job. When you have an educated work force, this make those places more attractive to companies, which will then hire people and then the companies themselves will do better (economically) and then the general society will do better. Companies are not looking for a few geniuses, they are looking for a large group of educated and capable employees, a large pool of talent they can draw from. This is what the West offers these companies, which is why most of them are located there. 

Both these examples, care for the elderly / parents and valuing education and learning through life are part of Islam. These are Islamic values that have been implemented in the West and have been forgotten about in 'Muslim' countries. Whoever implements these values will get the result, whether they are muslim or non muslim and whoever forgets about these values will get the bad results of forgetting about them. This is a rule that was set in place by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 

The Western societies are also not implementing the Haqq in a comprehensive way. The parts that they are ignoring (like the Haqq of marriage, family, eating / drinking, halal / haram rizq, etc) are damaging the society in a profound way. If you look at the rate of suicide, abortion, gun violence, rape, drug abuse, etc, they are all increasing at a rapid rate. Eventually, the bad consequences of not implementing this part of the Haqq will nullify the effects of implementing the other parts of the Haqq and the socitie(s) will collapse and disintegrate, just like what happened to all the societies in the past which implemented parts of the Haqq and ignored other parts. Some say this is already happening, some say it will happen in the near future, but eventually it will happen. When Muslims observe the West (those in Muslim countries), they see what they want to see, the don't see the full reality of the situation. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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11 hours ago, Sumerian said:

There are some Muslim countries that are rich and offer a comfortable lifestyle to those that live in it, but they are the exception as most Muslim countries are poor.

Brunei, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, Oman come to mind as rich countries. 

How do these countries treat their labour workers? 

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

How do these countries treat their labour workers? 

I live in one of these countries. Asians and Egyptians are treated as a slaves. Ofc some of them treat them just like a family but majority of them are abusers. I know some people who are getting their salary really late too. 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

How do these countries treat their labour workers? 

They treat their citzens and Western and/or highly educated expats very well, but treat labour workers from South Asia and Africa very poorly.

Very unislamic and unethical, but my point was that there is no reason for their citzens to seek refuge to the West. 

I should have clarified that earlier.

Edited by Sumerian
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15 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

 

Reminds me of this picture. All the Arab leaders below (except Morocco) are either had parents who were put in power by Britain or are currently kept in power with British support.

image.png

That's because they are the sons of tribes and families that revolted against Ottoman rule, and sided with the British in World War 1. 

The Ottomans fled Arab countries, and the French took over part of North Africa, Lebanon and Syria, while Britain gained power in the Gulf States, Egypt, Iraq and Jordan as a result of their alliance with these tribes, specifically the Al-Saud clan and the Hashmite clan.

Then the French and Brits divided the Middle East's borders in the Sykes-Picot plan, and the Brits promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine.

So yeah, nearly all our calamities and problems can be connected to British and Western colonialism.

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7 hours ago, Sumerian said:

So yeah, nearly all our calamities and problems can be connected to British and Western colonialism.

It's not necessarily just a legacy issue, part of my point was that today's rich Arab countries are that way because their politico-socio-economic set-up has been designed and maintained that way, with the present firmly in mind.

In my opinion, Malaysia would be a great deal richer if Brunei were to have been part of it, when Malaya broke up, but it's much easier for the UK to extract resources from small little and vastly rich Brunei.

Ordinary Iraqis would be much richer if Kuwait were to be part of Iraq, but then the Kuwait Investment Authority (or whatever it calls itself) would have much less to invest in British assets.

People believe that the British Empire came to an end sometime in the middle of the last century. It did not, it simply retrenched and created a new business model - one that was based around extracting resources from little rich countries.

I wrote a children's story for my niece Sakina, vaguely connected with this:

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Sumerian said:

That's because they are the sons of tribes and families that revolted against Ottoman rule, and sided with the British in World War 1. 

The Ottomans fled Arab countries, and the French took over part of North Africa, Lebanon and Syria, while Britain gained power in the Gulf States, Egypt, Iraq and Jordan as a result of their alliance with these tribes, specifically the Al-Saud clan and the Hashmite clan.

Then the French and Brits divided the Middle East's borders in the Sykes-Picot plan, and the Brits promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine.

So yeah, nearly all our calamities and problems can be connected to British and Western colonialism.

All of that is true, but you left a very important part out. 

As it says in the Holy Quran, 13:11

لَهُۥ مُعَقِّبَـٰتٌ مِّنۢ بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِۦ يَحْفَظُونَهُۥ مِنْ أَمْرِ ٱللَّهِ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يُغَيِّرُ مَا بِقَوْمٍ حَتَّىٰ يُغَيِّرُوا۟ مَا بِأَنفُسِهِمْ وَإِذَآ أَرَادَ ٱللَّهُ بِقَوْمٍ سُوٓءًا فَلَا مَرَدَّ لَهُۥ وَمَا لَهُم مِّن دُونِهِۦ مِن وَالٍ

'...God does not change the condition of a people until they change what is in their own selves...'

Imam Khomeni(رضي الله عنه) rose up in 1979 against this plan of colonization. Now who supported him ? Only the Iranians, and only about 10% of the population of Iran, in the beginning. The Arabs, except for a small group in South Lebanon, rejected him and his message even though it was based in Haqq, and an Islamic Message in line with Quran and the true teachings of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h). So because they rejected him, the refused to change what was in their own selves, i.e. their hatred for those they called 'Rafida', '[edited out]', etc, and their false belief that the only way to gain power in the ME was to cooperate and collaborate with the colonial rulers, who now rule by proxy instead of directly. 

The main way the colonizers stopped this support from happening was to reinforce in the minds of the people sect, tribe, and nationality over their identity as Muslims. They greatly wanted the people to think of themselves as Sunni, Shia, Iraqi, Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian, from tribe X and tribe Y, and their identity as a Muslim as last on the list. That way, if anyone ever does rise up on Haqq, the only supporters they will find are those from their sect, tribe, and nation, which will not be enough to overturn the rule of the colonizers. This is the 'divide and conquer' rule that has been used since the time of Pharoh(la). As Muslims, we say our loyalty is to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), to the Haqq, and to Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) comes first before anything else. Those are mostly just words, for most people, because in practice if someone like Imam Khomeni(رضي الله عنه) rises up based on those principles, they find little support outside of their own sect and nation. So the plan of the colonizers has worked. We must all realize that, and try to change ourselves so we think of ourselves as Muslims first, and our loyalty is to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) come before our loyalty to our nation, tribe, and sect. 

If they would have adopted the principles of the Islamic Revolution and supported those who rose up based on Haqq, these colonial powers would have had no choice but to withdrawl from the area and the ME would be a completely different place today. So the current calamities can be traced to British and Western colonialism AND the failure of the people to support those who rose up against this system with Haqq. As long as this failure keeps happening, the colonial system will continue, or be replaced by a worse and more evil system. The power to change the current system is always in the hands of the people, not in the hands of the colonizers. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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On 9/30/2021 at 10:02 PM, PureExistence1 said:

I need to mention that the main objection about living in the west, especially if you are wise to what goes on with tax money,

This is a really wise comment.  I don't think it is just about what happens to your tax in the 'West'. I am sure every country uses tax income for things we are unhappy with.  But at least when the government has a social care system of pension, unemployment pay, medical treatment, funding infrastructuire improvements etc some of our taxes is going to 'good causes'.

On 10/2/2021 at 11:09 AM, Abu Hadi said:

A muslim would prefer living in a place where the society functions based on Haqq. Haqq means truth, justice, and putting things in their proper place according to their real and not perceived (by the society) value.

I'm sure anyone, not just a Muslim, would prefer this.  Truth and Justice should be the foundation of all countries and political systems.  We need to be careful that we don't just look for it in the Government or 'them out there'  Truth and Justice should be the basis for our own personal and family life too.  If individuals, families and local comunities worked on a basis of Truth and Justice, I suggest that many of the issues we see around the world wouldn't be there.

The Prophet David writing in the Zebur knew that as a ruler of a country he was under the authority of God and that God was the source of Truth and Justice.  See these statements made by David the Prophet inspired by God.

Psalm 33:5  The Lord loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of his unfailing love.

Psalm 36:6  Your righteousness, O God, is like the highest mountains, your justice like the great deep. You, Lord, preserve both people and animals.

Psalm 89:14  O God, Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; love and faithfulness go before you.

On 10/3/2021 at 1:28 AM, Sumerian said:

They treat their citzens and Western and/or highly educated expats very well, but treat labour workers from South Asia and Africa very poorly.

Very unislamic and unethical, but my point was that there is no reason for their citzens to seek refuge to the West. 

This kind of indicates that there is a discontinuity somewhere between these nations understanding of Truth and Justice.  Are they living according to God's Righteousness and Justice or not?

On 10/3/2021 at 12:00 PM, Abu Hadi said:

'...God does not change the condition of a people until they change what is in their own selves...'

What an interersting comment from the Qur'an!  It clearly shows that the state of our own hearts is important to God.  I believe God is in the busness of changing people's hearts.  He does the changing and the transformation then those with hearts based on his righteousness and justice can start to change society from the inside making wherever we live somewhere that is atractive and desirable.

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