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In the Name of God بسم الله

halal money

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Hey

I've got a opputunity to work at my schools canteen. I get good paid, and the people there are nice pretty nice (they are also muslims). My only problem is that they serve not halal food:/. What should I do? I've seen a lot of different answers online, what do you think?

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19 hours ago, Kalepaceh said:

Hey

I've got a opputunity to work at my schools canteen. I get good paid, and the people there are nice pretty nice (they are also muslims). My only problem is that they serve not halal food:/. What should I do? I've seen a lot of different answers online, what do you think?

Take the work.  You can serve anything except alcohol, which I doubt any school canteen will have.  It's perfectly halal income.  If you have doubts, you can portion out some of your earnings to give in charity.

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4 hours ago, notme said:

Take the work.  You can serve anything except alcohol, which I doubt any school canteen will have.  It's perfectly halal income.  If you have doubts, you can portion out some of your earnings to give in charity.

SAAAAAY WALLLAAAAHH. Ay yo fr? damnnnnnn, u got any links from the marjas saying it? Khamenei? sistani?

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1 minute ago, realizm said:

:salam:

I think you will come across something regarding pork, which is the red line if I am correct. 

But hey, there's rules and concrete life...

 

That's exactly what I thought. @notmeWhat do you think? Isn't serving pork haram too like alcohol?

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Salam,

It is haram to sell haram food to people who you know will eat it and if you do sell the food the money earned is haram. According to Al-Sayyid Al-Sistani upon obligatory precaution even the action of selling haram meat is impermissible even if the buyer will not do haram with the food. However, pork is definitely haram to sell (not a precautionary measure).

55 minutes ago, Kalepaceh said:

Isn't serving pork haram too like alcohol?

Selling pork is absolutely haram even if the buyer will not eat it.

Edited by Muhammad Al-Hurr
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مسألة 432: لا يجوز بيع الخمر والخنزير والكلب غير الصيود، وكذا الميتة النجسة على الأحوط لزوماً، ولا بأس ببيع غيرها من الأعيان النجسة والمتنجّسة إذا كانت لها منفعة محلّلة معتدّ بها عند العقلاء على نحو يبذل بإزائها المال، وإلّا فلا يجوز بيعها وإن كان لها منفعة محلّلة جزئيّة على الأحوط وجوباً.

https://www.sistani.org/arabic/book/23720/4615/

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I'm pretty sure the rulling reads differently in English, but the site is not opening for me. Maybe it's blocked "for my own safety". I will look at my books tomorrow in the daytime but I'm pretty sure it's only haram to sell pork or other haram meat to people who you know are Muslim. 

I was assuming that you need to work to earn money for your or your family's expenses, not just taking a job for fun. The rules are stricter if it's not necessity. If earning money is not needed, probably best to err on the side of caution and not do it. 

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3 hours ago, Kalepaceh said:

That's exactly what I thought. @notmeWhat do you think? Isn't serving pork haram too like alcohol?

I'm not certain about that. I have definitely read rulings that Muslims are permitted to work in grocery stores that sell pork. 

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13 minutes ago, notme said:

I'm pretty sure the rulling reads differently in English

The ruling I showed says that it is also haram to sell dead animals that were not slaughtered in accordance with Islamic law or are generally intrinsically impure upon obligatory precaution. This ruling implies that the dead animals and any part of them are haram to sell upon obligatory precaution.

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46 minutes ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

You can work in them but you cannot directly sell the pork.

I have read with regard to working as a cashier, who scans the products and takes the money for them, but does not provide or prepare them in any way. 

I'll look tomorrow when it's daytime, but probably the Arabic ruling carries more weight than any translated ruling, and there is also a chance that I haven't correctly remembered all the details of what I previously read. Often, when necessity is involved, what is usually forbidden becomes permitted as a lesser evil. 

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4 hours ago, notme said:

I have read with regard to working as a cashier, who scans the products and takes the money for them, but does not provide or prepare them in any way. 

السؤال: هل يجوز العمل في محل لبيع لحم الخنزير، بأن يأمر المسلم المستشكل أحد عمّاله بإعطاء لحم الخنزير للمشتري؟

الجواب: لا يجوز بيع لحم الخنزير ولو على مستحلّيه من دون فرق بين المباشرة والتسبّب، وأمّا تقديم لحم الخنزير لمستحلّيه ففيه إشكال ويجب الاحتياط بتركه.
According to this, it is haram to sell pork directly and indirectly even to non-Muslims. It is also haram to serve pork (without selling) upon obligatory precaution.
Edited by Muhammad Al-Hurr
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جواز طبخ وتقديم اللحوم غير المذكاة للمستحلِّين لها

يجوز للمسلم تقديم اللحوم المأخوذة من حيوان غير مذبوح وفق قواعد الذباحة الشرعية الى المستحلِّين له من مسيحيين ويهود وغيرهم ، كما يجوز له العمل في إعداد هذا اللحم وطبخه لهم.
ويمكن للمسلم تصحيح إمتلاك العوائد المالية المدفوعة منهم له ، مقابل التنازل عن حق إختصاصه بذلك اللحم لهم.

https://www.sistani.org/arabic/book/17/961/

According to this ruling, it is permissible to serve (not sell) meat that is intrinsically impure to those who believe it is permissible to consume it (i.e. Christians) with the exception of pork and possibly other types of meat. In order for the money earned for serving to be halal, a person must withdraw his exclusive rights of the meat.

Edited by Muhammad Al-Hurr
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The ruling of Al-Sayyid Khamenei:

  • As-Salamu Alaykum,
    Is selling intrinsically impure meat and mutanajjis food to non-Muslims permissible?
  • Salamun `alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

    By obligatory caution, selling pork is impermissible but selling other kinds of meat, which they consider permissible, for them is not objected.

    With prayers for your success
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13 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

You can work in them but you cannot directly sell the pork.

What do you mean by that? So the person preparing the pork would be a sinner, but not the cashier? 

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4 hours ago, Kalepaceh said:

What do you mean by that? So the person preparing the pork would be a sinner, but not the cashier? 

13 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

السؤال: هل يجوز العمل في محل لبيع لحم الخنزير، بأن يأمر المسلم المستشكل أحد عمّاله بإعطاء لحم الخنزير للمشتري؟

الجواب: لا يجوز بيع لحم الخنزير ولو على مستحلّيه من دون فرق بين المباشرة والتسبّب، وأمّا تقديم لحم الخنزير لمستحلّيه ففيه إشكال ويجب الاحتياط بتركه.
According to this, it is haram to sell pork directly and indirectly even to non-Muslims. It is also haram to serve pork (without selling) upon obligatory precaution

Based on this ruling, it is impermissible to sell the pork directly or even ask others to sell the pork to the buyer on your behalf.

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3 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

It means that a person must relinquish his ownership over the meat and make whoever he is serving as the owner of the meat or the one who has the exclusive rights over the meat.

So... like being employed by the owner of the product?

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4 hours ago, notme said:

So... like being employed by the owner of the product?

I am not entirely sure how this ruling is applied.

I think one example would be serving the meat to the non-Muslim and then he takes full possession and ownership over the meat. So the server is no longer responsible for nor owns the meat and the non-Muslim can take it home. Or if the non-Muslim is a guest at a person's house and the person offers meat to the non-Muslim and makes him own the meat, meaning that the non-Muslim can leave the house with it. I would assume in both of these scenarios, the money earned for serving the meat would be halal (i.e., someone else paying the server to the serve the meat).

Indirectly selling intrinsically impure meat is haram upon obligatory precaution as per the previous ruling I presented stating that it is haram to directly or indirectly sell pork.

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I didn't forget I was going to look in my books for ruling in English. If was just a really busy day. Plus I'm sure if the English and the Arabic conflict, Arabic takes precedence since it ia the language of the scholar. 

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Selling and preparing intoxicants or pork is something which must be avoided. Same goes with selling haram meat of animals other than pork according to some scholars, among them is Sistani. However, Sistani has no issue with preparing haram meat to those who believe it is halal according to them, with the exception of pork ofcourse.

What has to be said is that there is also a difference between selling, delivering or preparing alcohol and pork, and recieving the price for those things.

296. Question: Is a Muslim allowed to work in grocery stores that sell liquor in one of its sections, and his work is only as a cashier?

Answer: He is allowed to receive the price of items other than liquor and also the price of liquor, if the buyers are non-Muslims.

Source: https://www.al-islam.org/a-code-of-practice-for-muslims-in-the-west-ayatullah-sistani/work-investment

However, keep in mind that delivery and transfer of alcohol is haram aswell.

السؤال: شخص يعمل في سوبر ماركت ومن ضمن عمله نقل صناديق الخمر، فهل يجوز له ذلك؟

الجواب: لا يجوز نقل الخمر.

https://www.sistani.org/arabic/qa/02213/

Question: A man works in a supermarket, and part of his work is to transfer [move around] boxes of alcohol, is that permissible?

Answer: It is not permissible to transfer alcohol.

This may mean even as a cashier, when it comes to recieving the price of the liquor, you may have to avoid physically grabbing the bottle/can and handing it over to the buyer.

The best thing is for a Muslim to avoid working in such environments in the first place.

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