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In the Name of God بسم الله

9/11 20th Anniversary

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The attacks were immediately construed as an attack on 'American Freedoms' by people whose ideology was against such freedom.

The scale of the disaster (3000+ deaths) was considered to be such that merited a multinational response covering decades and the revenge included the commission of war crimes and torture.

The cost has mainly been borne by Muslims who had nothing to do with the attacks and the benefits have been reaped by arms manufacturers and those who wanted to see the Middle East destabliised and Islamophobia increased.

It's ironic then, that just last week over 1000 people died from CV19 in Florida alone, mainly as a result of exercising various freedoms like not being vaccinated or wearing masks and the response to this scale of deaths has been 'meh'.

Putting 'freedom' on a pedestal has come with a heavy human cost for the United States, but we've also seen that when it does not suit the narrative even American deaths don't matter to many American policy makers and politicians.

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Freedoms were eroded as a result of 9/11, not just in the United States but in the West in general. Mass surveillance was introduced and police were given extra powers, all for the sake of "saving lives and stopping terror attacks".

There is a security-liberty balance that is always changing depending on the circumstances at hand, and it is happening right now like we see with Covid.

The difference is that right now, in the US, the calls for extra Government powers in dealing with the health crisis is partisan, while the emergency and extra powers given to Government due to 9/11 was bipartisan.

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“After a brief burst of rally-round-the-flag patriotism, the war fuelled domestic division, xenophobia and a broader fear of people of colour, thereby reinforcing the white supremacists at the core of Trumpism,” Harvard professor Stephen Walt declared last week. “US officials embraced torture and rendition as policy tools, lied to the country about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction... and no one was ever held accountable.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/12/lives-lost-poverty-an-arms-race-rights-destroyed-the-continuing-cost-of-911

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On 9/12/2021 at 7:43 AM, Sumerian said:

The difference is that right now, in the US, the calls for extra Government powers in dealing with the health crisis is partisan, while the emergency and extra powers given to Government due to 9/11 was bipartisan.

 

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3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

 

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I guess you can say that about any country. Right now if Iran's airspace was violated by a US or Israeli drone, and it attacked a nuclear site, and for argument's sake let us say no one even died, it was just infrastructure damage, there would probably still be calls for a military retaliation and a great section of the Iranian populas would call for all out war. Meanwhile hundreds of Iranians die daily, and it has become a norm.

Heck, more Americans die of the flu each year than 9/11. More Americans die of cancer than 9/11. More Americans die from traffic accidents than 9/11. More Americans die from drug abuse than 9/11. More Americans die from incapability to pay for a medical treatment than 9/11. It is not a uniquely American thing, these types of deaths are ones which humans have gotten accustomed to, while an attack from a foreigner is viewed in a different light. Even if 9/11 resulted in 100 deaths, the US would probably have still went to war.

I personally don't have an issue with either masks or vaccines, I'm actually vaccinated, what is concerning however is unchecked State power when it comes to restricting people's ability to earn livelihoods or just to do normal human things, like go out for a walk after 9pm (such is the case in certain jurisdictions in Australia), or leave your home without a "permit" (North Korea style rules in a Western democratic country), or have military in your streets.

Edited by Sumerian
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Interesting speech about Saudi involvement in 9/11 by James Kreindler who represents the families of the victims of 9/11. He's also important because he won compensation from Libya for the families of the Lockerbie air crash. The introduction to Kreindler makes various reference to his experience and education etc.

It's quite a long presentation, but worth watching as an insight into the worldview of one American who has moved in intelligence and diplomatic circles. Yet despite that experience he's still susceptible to bringing in references to Iran in all sorts of weird ways. 

My view is that he is no doubt an irritant to the U.S. establishment, he refers to Obama's actions as treasonous and Bush gets both barrels as well. However he's useful in the sense that he's keeping the compensation/legal aspect of 9/11 open and if/when the U.S. government needs to turn the screws on the Saudis, he will be wheeled out to do his business.

This is what he says at around the 15 minute mark in the above video. I transcripted this and ... represent where he's repeated himself.

Quote

 

Before we get to 911 you know it's worth remembering and something you and I talked about at lunch why did Bin Laden turn from an ally of the United States fighting the Russians to the vitriolic hatred of the United States. 

In my mind the number one reason that caused him to despise us was the presence of U.S. military troops particularly female troops in Saudi Arabia after we were protecting Kuwait the Emirates and Saudi Arabia from Saddam Hussein so for many years before 9/11 you had Saudi government officials working with al Qaeda and coordinating with Al Qaeda. 

What happened on 9/11? The two lead hijackers Hazmi and Mihdhar attended toward the end of 1999 attended a convention … in Malaysia of al-Qaeda and other terrorists at which the 9/11 attack was planned as well as the Cole attack. 

These terror attacks all emanated from a tragic event in 1988. How many of you remember when the USS Vincennes shot down the Iranian Airbus mistakenly killing 300 plus people? 

So Iran vowed revenge the plot to destroy 10 USA commercial air carriers was called the Bojinka plot. A plot that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed knew about and tried to implement. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's nephew Ramzi Yousef was the convicted bomber of the 1993 attacks in the … World Trade Centre. 

9/11 was a combination of the Bojinka plot to destroy 10 US aircraft with the attack on the World Trade Centre in 93 the World Trade Centre of course is seen as a symbol of American capitalism particularly Jewish American capitalism and that's why it was such a potent target.

 

https://youtu.be/6nnz0YRy6So

  1. The way he presents it, the Bojinka Plot was linked to Iran. However this NY Times story about the Bojinka Plot manages not to mention Iran on a single occasion. https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/11/world/asia/11iht-web.0811manila.2447764.html
  2. Why would Khalid Sheikh Mahmood try and implement something linked to Iran?

 

 

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I think that vaccines are just naturally something that people don't feel comfortable with. The idea of a metal needle going into your body alone is uncomfortable, let alone one that sends molecular structures into you. Paired with people's general lack of familiarity with biology and a discomfort of a virus killing hundreds of thousands of people, and it's just a huge discomforting position to be in.

Personally, I think that the US government should go on a campaign to educate people before pressing companies to mandate vaccines. Why not mandate education about vaccination first? 

I'm certainly pro-vaccination, but I think that mandates at our current time are a bit premature. Granted, hundreds of thousands of Americans are dying and time is of the essence. But some things unfortunately just take time to resolve. People need time to learn as well. 

9/11 seemed, on the surface, pretty simple. Someone sought to kill you, so you seek to fight back. But covid-19 is somewhat complicated. It's death by the unseen with a solution that also is unseen. A 5 year old can throw a punch, but it takes a lot more work to explain the scientific method to 300 million people.

 

And even the deaths are nearly unseen. Even if 100 people were to die in a single day in Florida, in a population of 15 million, such deaths are still almost unnoticeable. But if the skyscraper goes down, then pretty much everyone sees it. Especially in Manhattan.

Edited by iCenozoic
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7 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

I think that vaccines are just naturally something that people don't feel comfortable with. The idea of a metal needle going into your body alone is uncomfortable, let alone one that sends molecular structures into you. Paired with people's general lack of familiarity with biology and a discomfort of a virus killing hundreds of thousands of people, and it's just a huge discomforting position to be in.

Personally, I think that the US government should go on a campaign to educate people before pressing companies to mandate vaccines. Why not mandate education about vaccination first? 

I'm certainly pro-vaccination, but I think that mandates at our current time are a bit premature. Granted, hundreds of thousands of Americans are dying and time is of the essence. But some things unfortunately just take time to resolve. People need time to learn as well. 

9/11 seemed, on the surface, pretty simple. Someone sought to kill you, so you seek to fight back. But covid-19 is somewhat complicated. It's death by the unseen with a solution that also is unseen. A 5 year old can throw a punch, but it takes a lot more work to explain the scientific method to 300 million people.

 

And even the deaths are nearly unseen. Even if 100 people were to die in a single day in Florida, in a population of 15 million, such deaths are still almost unnoticeable. But if the skyscraper goes down, then pretty much everyone sees it. Especially in Manhattan.

The problem is there is a lot of misinformation in the states, that spread lies. and sadly a lot of people just decide to close their eyes and cover their ears to any information, claiming they are free thinkers. It's ironic, because the people who go around claiming anti vaccine sentiments are vaccinated themselves. Society should usually be encouraging towards a good thing like being vaccinated but that isn't the case in the US.

The US government should crack down in misinformation more, Pandemic syndrome is another thing. Just people having too much fear during a pandemic, as you can see with anti-mask and anti-vax movement.

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16 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

And even the deaths are nearly unseen. Even if 100 people were to die in a single day in Florida, in a population of 15 million, such deaths are still almost unnoticeable. But if the skyscraper goes down, then pretty much everyone sees it. Especially in Manhattan.

The point I was making in the OP was that 9/11 was weaponised in order to attack blameless countries while, in my opinion, covid deaths and its impact overall are being downplayed in order to avoid making necessary healthcare and economic policy changes.

In my blog post about this subject I highlight the impact of economic inequality on the spread of the disease, but that it something that is hardly covered, with even the 'freethinkers' focusing on horse dewormer paste.

 

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