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In the Name of God بسم الله

Thinking of leaving Shiism

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  • Advanced Member
7 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

And btw there should be no reason to dream about any imams. They are not Divine

Maybe ,They are not divine for you but on the other hand they are divine  likewise prophet  Muhammad (pbu) which even Wahabists believe that dreaming him in sleep  is true whithout interfering  of Satan which Shaitn can not represent him & his infallible Imams from his progeny which prophet Muhammad  (pbu) himself has said that " Hussain  is from me and I am from Hussain " also Imam  Hussain  (عليه السلام) is from Ahlul Kisa , so consequently , there is no difference  between  divinity him & prophet  Muhammad (pbu) then dreaming  Imam Hussain  (عليه السلام) is similar to seeing prophet  Muhammad  (pbu) in dream also Shias are only sect which have not division  in religion although  we have separated to multiple  faction about following  successor  of prophet  Muhammad  (pbu) from his progeny.

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On 8/31/2021 at 2:56 AM, Diaz said:

Here is it brother.

E5483664-684B-4C06-B88C-DFAC370FB4F8.jpeg

I can make a similar video with these 10 points and the title would be:

"10 Reasons to leave Sunnism"

@Baseer why listening to slanderers. By asking these questions, who have obvious and visible answers, this person is just trying to spill fitna. Most and ai mean maximum content on Sunnah Discourse is full of Nasibiyat. 

Don't get into all these Fitna. Shiism has many loopholes and same but rather even greater are there in Ahl Sunnah.

But I know that everyone would ask me to answer this. So, let me give brief answers for all:

1. A focus on Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)): It is not Shia theology and Aqeeda which has low focus on Allah. It is the deviant shia people who are like that. Shiism is purely derived from Quran and Shiism is strictly focussed upon Quran (Kitab Allah) and Iterat. Nahj ul Balagha (if you read) is a beautiful wonder that is full of dhikr Allah. Sahifa Sajjadiyah is a blessed book of duas and there is no match to that book in the entire Islamic literature. Purely focussed upon Allah.

2. Access to Hadiths: Although a problem but not that huge. We do have access to huge volumes of hadith with regards to our Aqeeda in Wilayat. When you have 12 hujjats after Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and words of all are undisputed and crucial then we will obviously match the compilations and scholarly works with respect to that. So, see where the times of our earliest scholars lie and see where the hadith compilation and research has begun. When it comes to problems in hadith. Well, they are everywhere because corrupt nasibis and ghaalis were all around busy in confusing people.

3. Acceptance of Companions: Again, a difference here lies between the shia literature and the shia public. Shia Aqeeda has great respect for companions. In fact, we value them so much that we cannot allow there names to be taken along with hypocrites. Isn't it an insult to Ibn Abbas (رضي الله عنه) (For eg) if we say his name in one breath and Muawiya's name in another breath (with the same respect). Which logic would allow you to say: "Hazrat Ammar is in Jannah along with 'Hazrat Muawiyah'? Read the Quran and you will find the verses that say: "Is the reward of ones who do good and the ones who are evil equal?"

So, doesn't Quran challenge this rhetoric. So, Shia aqeeda has a true love for Sahaba. Separating them from the hypocrites.

4. Access to Ahlulbayt's teachings : A baseless accusation not worth answering.

5. Taqiyyah free Ahlubayt : This is a strawman. Assuming that Taqiyyah is something not a part of our faith. While in reality it is proven from Quran. I had a back and forth word with a salafi on Shiachat itself where he did nothing except laying vile accusations on all shias of lie. This happened to the point that he even said that,"I don't know if you are doing taqiyyah right now or not." So, Taqiyyah is in our aqeeda and even many many Sunnis do it. Especially, in India when they are attacked by Hindutva goons, even the most extremist Sunnis hide if they sell or purchase beaf. They even have given official fatwa from all institutes that cow meat is haram for Indian muslims. This much just for life. Isn't it taqiyyah?

6. Access to the context of Quran: Again, a problem of people and not aqeeda. Shia teachings focus the most on Quran. Even the most wonderful tafsirs written on Quran are there:

Tafsir Al Mizan - Allama Tabatabai

Majma ul Bayan fi Tafsir al Quran - Sheikh Tabarsi

Tafsir Al Burhan, Tafsir al Qummi. 

These are the popular ones only. You will find tafsir of Quran in volumes from many Shia scholars of every era. No one can write a tafsir without understanding the context.

7. Refer to point 6. And please tell me how many are there on the other side of the fence? Read Tafsir Ibn Kathir and also Tafsir Majma ul Bayan. Read Tafsir Tafhim al Quran by Maududi and read Tafsir Al Mizan. Compare and answer which is aligned with Quran more. 

8. Access to Prophet's Biography: There are many books written on Seerat un Nabi. The Message by Ayatullah Jaffer Subhani. Sunan an Nabi by Allama Tabatabai. There are many others. Enough to prove that this is wrong.

9. Trust in Hadith compilers: Shia compilers can be trusted easily. I foind this point a bit vague and blurry. What do you mean here? Sheikh al Kulayni was a thiqa in Shias as well as Sunnis.

10. Realistic Karbala Narrative : It is not that we don't have a realistic narrative. But the azadari is dominated by thosecwithout knowledge and thus it appears as if Karbala isn't real. Wrong and unrealistic practices. Mixing of emotions with history has caused this trouble. This point is genuinely the nearest to be a critic among all. But definitely not a reason to leave an aqeeda.

May Allah bless you and everone and may Allah protect the faith of brother @Baseer

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12 hours ago, Debate follower said:

 And there are others who left 12er Shia for Sunnism.

Thansk for your reply and referring others that your hero are these two instead of your own first 3 califs.

It remind me here that if some one switches 12ver shiism and becomes your hero, but in the light of the verses of quran it my be otherwise, since the satan left to prostrate Adam and became Lanti / Regime.

I hope it may be sufficient for some one eyes who just argue with 12vers instead of accepting the facts presented in many threads where these heroes have been found speechless and keep themselves running towards new threads opening thus truth remains hidden from their eyes.

wasalam

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10 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

ALL sects are wrong. ALL sects were created by man. 
 

if you want to be a true Muslim stop listen to men and start listening to Allah. 
quran 

6:159

Surely, those who have made divisions in their religion and turned into factions, you have nothing to do with them. Their case rests with Allah alone; then He will tell them what they have been doing.

 

lol, If "all" sects are wrong, that means there is no one listening & following the commands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  

While Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is mentioning an "Ummah" in Quran as best of the nations (Khayra Ummatin). Who are they? 

And who are the ones which we are praying to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as "sirat allathina an'amta alaihim" the ones who were favored by Allah s,w,t, one whom He neither becomes angry nor are they from the lost ones? 

It seems to me you are not looking at the Quran as a whole. Just picking up some of its verses of your choice and producing contradictions in your own statement which are going against the Quran & Hadith both. 



 

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14 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

and even if he isn't at least the points have been clarified now. 

I was talking with reference to 10 points mentioned in the video and then what he shared as his problems:

On 9/1/2021 at 2:08 AM, Baseer said:

I have lots of issues with both Sunni and Shia beliefs but overall I may be leaning towards the sunnis. here's some of my issues with Shiism:

  • I can't find any authentic proofs of conterversial subjects such as the attack on fatima's house by Umar. It seems made up unless someone can prove it.
  • I have seen "Ayatullahs" like Syed Shirazi (Not makarem) being accused of collecting funds from the UK and US to corrupt Shias and Islam. I would usually treat this like nothing and stop following such people but some of the top Ayatollahs and Scholars have regularly visited Shirazi and his family such as the Qazwini family who are very popular and known world-wide.
  • Taqiyya and hiding beliefs from Sunnis makes no sense Islamically to me.

can you see where the problem lies? A person can be a shia without believing that any attack ever happened at Syeda Fatima's (عليه السلام) house. A person can still be a shia without accepting what people are saying about Syed Shirazi or Qazwini. A person can still be a shia without practicing Taqaiyyah or without believing on infallibility. 

This makes me think what, according to him, makes a person shia? It appears to me he is not shia at all. A shia is a person who accepts the wilayah of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and the sons from his progeny and who follows them.   

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On 9/1/2021 at 3:01 PM, pseudonym said:

Let's follow the example of our Aimmah((عليه السلام)) who were polite even to enemies giving them every chance to still find the way.

Someone who is Shia and having doubts, well here we should be even more careful of our duty, what the other person does is still their doing but let's stick to the points made and bring forth evidences and example that can help.

What is important to say is this, emotions can be deadly and Shaytaan and Qabil are very early examples of how emotions can take us away, just keep to facts and try to keep the Aql as the general within your being and you'll find the way.

Baseer, if you want to chat privately if that will help, I was Sunni and came to Shia Islam many years ago, happy to chat if you wish.

Will you chat privately with someone else having serious doubts as well? 

 

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11 hours ago, Cool said:

lol, If "all" sects are wrong, that means there is no one listening & following the commands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  

While Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is mentioning an "Ummah" in Quran as best of the nations (Khayra Ummatin). Who are they? 

And who are the ones which we are praying to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as "sirat allathina an'amta alaihim" the ones who were favored by Allah s,w,t, one whom He neither becomes angry nor are they from the lost ones? 

It seems to me you are not looking at the Quran as a whole. Just picking up some of its verses of your choice and producing contradictions in your own statement which are going against the Quran & Hadith both. 



 

I think you are unintentionally being hypocritical. You are the one who can’t pull more than 2 verses that clearly defend the Shia Sect. 

I can pull over 1000 verses that prove i as a Muslim am obeying Allah and DONT need to do 1% of the extra things you do 

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20 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

can pull over 1000 verses that prove i as a Muslim am obeying Allah and DONT need to do 1% of the extra things you do 

Please don't try to do that. What you would pull, infact, is quite clear to all.

Your ignorance of hablillah, urwatul wuthqa, ulil amr etc are exposed. 

You are commanded to "obey" Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Ulil Amr, you don't know who is the Ulil Amr & more ridiculous is your statement that you don't need Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). Well, that means you are claiming that you don't need the Ark of Noah. You have no idea whatsoever, what might be the result of your statements. 

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17 minutes ago, Cool said:

Please don't try to do that. What you would pull, infact, is quite clear to all.

Your ignorance of hablillah, urwatul wuthqa, ulil amr etc are exposed. 

You are commanded to "obey" Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Ulil Amr, you don't know who is the Ulil Amr & more ridiculous is your statement that you don't need Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). Well, that means you are claiming that you don't need the Ark of Noah. You have no idea whatsoever, what might be the result of your statements. 

I am not disobeying Allah being as I am right now. You interpreted everything as you need the ahlul bayt, I didn’t interpret it that way. 

It’s that simple. 
 

can you tell me what I need the ark of Noah for? I’ve never heard that I need it.?? I’m confused what you meant by that. And who are the “Ulil Umar” why is it the first time I hear of this from Shias? 


 

 

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Salam Alaykum brother. I suggest that you look at the Quran, and the clear, agreed upon sunnah, in regards akhlaq, ethics, worship, etc, and start your Islam from there, and refer things you are unsure of to the Quran. This had been made much more accessible even to the average layman if you want to know all he different states of the believers mentioned in the Quran, for example, you can have a pdf of the Quran translation open, and search "believers"  and see all the contexts it is used, maybe you will find it bieng used in a context that indicates one can have some belief, but be sick in hear, one can be of the "people of the book" and have belief, etc. as one example.

 

The Quran gives the example of some Jews, who took their rabbis as intermediaries with the scripture, who changed meanings, and made their own laws, tantamount to the example of some Muslims who fabricated hadith, weather for political reasons, and Christians who were "Ghali" exaggerating in the description of Jesus. Muslims are not infallible, in fact, the Quran tells us 

9:97 :

The Arabs of the desert are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger: But Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.

 

bieng sincere can mean different things to different people, at different times in their lives, and the mental capacity Allah has given us.

A Hadith i read, either from one of the Imams, or the prophet, "Leave what makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt".

"Every doubtful thing is in the fire(or leads to the fire). I Can't remember exact wording.

Their are levels of Iman, as taught to us by the Ahlul Bayt, and a hadith indicates that if Abu Dhar knew what was in the heart of SAlman Al-Farsi, he would have killed Salman, although Rasool Allah established brother hood between them.

Another example of distinction of knowledge, and information, which does not affect faith, is in Surah al Kahf, the Example of Moses (عليه السلام) and Al Khidr, (عليه السلام) two "Insan Kamil", who were given different knowledges, which obligated them to act or speak contrarily to each other, though Allah did not make takfir of one or the other. Of course, Allah does declare some sayings of some people to be kufr in the Quran, so we must put our trust in the Quran.

another hadith attributed to the Rasool Allah SAWA "Leave that which does not concern you"

Quran 2:151

Sahih International: That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do.

 

Muhammad Bin Abdul Hameed, from his uncle Abdul Salam Bin Saalim, from a man,
‘From Abu Abdullahasws having said: ‘A Hadeeth regarding Permissible(s) and Prohibition which you take from a truthful one is better than the world and whatever is in it, from gold or silver’’.327

It is reported from Amir Al-Momineenasws, from the Prophetsaww having said: ‘It is befitting for the intellectual, when he was an intellectual, that there happen to be four timings for him, from the day – a time when he whispers to his Lordazwj, and a time during which he reckons himself, and a time when he goes to the people of knowledge, those who can help him in the matters of his Religion and advise him, and a time when he is alone with himself and its pleasures from the matters of the world in what is Permissible, and he extols and praises (Allahazwj)’.93

 

Quran 6:116 

And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah . They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.

 

Brother just worship Allah, and try to increase your iman, don't spend your time with impious people, and pious people do not talk excessively, and slander other believers or momineen , people who it is not known what is in thier hearts, out of fear for thier iman. 

 

Quran 17:36

 

And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those will be questioned.

4:140 

(Sahih International)

and it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -

 

Brother, Holding onto the Quran and Ahlul Bayt, does not mean holding onto the Quran, and every Fitna maker who says he is a Shia. Literally hold onto the Quran, and reflect on the sayings of the Ahlul bayt, much of both is about refinement of Character, and focuses on the individual. Politics and history, sectarianism, these things do not make or break your Islam, and the slandering and backbiting that reaches your ear, by way of such videos and people, even if they could potentially have some truth in them, he little bit of evil that reaches your ear by way of the backbiting destroys your iman, it is not worth it. 

I will leave with this, on a tangent, if you have doubts, remember in the tashahud, of every muslim, (At least 3/4 of even the sunni schools of thought) we send salawat on the Prophet SAWA and his family, and send salams to the righteous servant of Allah, so no harm in Sending Salams to Figures like Imam Hussain outside of Salah, it is good for your iman, how could something wajib in Salah be haram outside of it? Tunnel vision on yourself, and your spiritual cultivation, Allah will judge between those following the sunnah of the People of the book, in regards distorting hadith, and engaging in Ghuluw, don't waste your iman on listening, spend your time on Quran, dhikr, and reflecting on the wisdom from the Imams. only listen to pious people if you must listen to people, from any denomination, so long as they are speaking wisdom, which you will likely see to be re-occurring in the Quran, and the hadith. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

can you tell me what I need the ark of Noah for?

 

7 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

And who are the “Ulil Umar”

And you were claiming that you're obeying God. No,.I am not going to tell you anything. Please help yourself.

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On 9/5/2021 at 6:30 AM, Guest Reply said:

I can pull over 1000 verses that prove i as a Muslim am obeying Allah and DONT need to do 1% of the extra things you do

Then go ahead and do so. Give us your evidence that we do not need to obey the Messenger.

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On 8/31/2021 at 10:43 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

 

Interesting that you chose to answer the comments that didn't include a response to the video.

As for you leaving, 

2.257: Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.

The problem with you is you believe these verses are referring to anyone other than a Shia Lol. 
 

this verse and every other verse is directed to Muslims, and the ones who disbelieve in Allah are the inmates of the fire. 
 

not the ones who disbelieve in worshiping the Imams lol. 

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56 minutes ago, Cool said:

 

And you were claiming that you're obeying God. No,.I am not going to tell you anything. Please help yourself.

Ok thanks wallah. I did help myself and learning more!

if the Quran mentions it then I am with it!

Chapter 4 Surah Nisaa verse 59: O you who believe, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those entrusted with authority amongst you. Then if there arises any dispute about anything, refer the dispute to Allah and the Messenger, if you truly believe in Allah and the Last Day. That would be the best way and most suitable for final determination

 

Still need to do more research later on but I assume they are the companions and Ahlul bayt?

So still doing nothing wrong. I haven’t heard of any specific requests from the ulil Amr besides the hadiths. And i don’t see the issue I believe I follow them? They tell you had to be a good Muslim so that’s fine with me. 
 

if they tell me to call in to Ali then now we have a disagreement and the Quran Verse tells us what to do when we disagree. Turn back to Allah. 
 

so you say call to Ali I say no 

Allah says call on to no one but Allah…

so I win that one. 
 

as for the praying hands to the side or crossed. I personally don’t think it’s a big deal, you say pray with hands on side. 
let’s turn to Allah 

allah says pray to me. 
 

so I think we are both fine there.  
 

what else do we disagree on

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40 minutes ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

Then go ahead and do so. Give us your evidence that we do not need to obey the Messenger.

Well I didn’t say that so I’m not gonna do nothing….

I said becareful what you obey if it’s not lining up with what Allah wants 

And if we disagree. Let’s turn to Allah. 

you say worship Imam Mahdi

allah never mentioned anything of that 

so I can’t do it 

 

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2 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

The problem with you is you believe these verses are referring to anyone other than a Shia Lol. 
 

this verse and every other verse is directed to Muslims, and the ones who disbelieve in Allah are the inmates of the fire. 
 

not the ones who disbelieve in worshiping the Imams lol. 

Hehehe. Obviously!!! 

If you were a real shia, you would have never made that last statement. #FakeShia.

2 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

Ok thanks wallah. I did help myself and learning more!

if the Quran mentions it then I am with it!

Chapter 4 Surah Nisaa verse 59: O you who believe, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those entrusted with authority amongst you. Then if there arises any dispute about anything, refer the dispute to Allah and the Messenger, if you truly believe in Allah and the Last Day. That would be the best way and most suitable for final determination

 

Still need to do more research later on but I assume they are the companions and Ahlul bayt?

 

 

Real shia would ALWAYS put Ahlul Bayt ahead of companions. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) left behind Quran and Ahlul Bayt, not his companions. 

#FakeShia

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6 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

you say worship Imam Mahdi

allah never mentioned anything of that 

so I can’t do it 

 

It's just playing with words through relying  on different  translation  which even sunni translators  have translated  Call upon Me  ادْعُونِي in different  forms likewise praying & etc for example  Maududi  has transleted it to "Pray to Me" & Hilali as  "Invoke Me" . Therefore  translations can be vary which you can't  rely just a translation in order to relate calling Imam Mahdi (aj) as a person to worshiping  him besides Allah just  about asking request  for help from a person which he is Caliph of Allah on earth so clearly it's not woshipping him besides Allah.

Quote

Your Lord said: “Pray to Me, and I will accept your prayers. Surely those who wax too proud to worship Me shall enter Hell, utterly abased.” (60) 

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.maududi/40:60

And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islamic Monotheism)] (and ask Me for anything) I will respond to your (invocation). Verily! Those who scorn My worship [i.e. do not invoke Me, and do not believe in My Oneness, (Islamic Monotheism)] they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!" (60)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.hilali/40:60

 

 

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6 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

and those entrusted with authority amongst you.

You must now find out who is this person which if you don't  know him you will die in ignorance  even if you pray & fast & avoid commiting sins .

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5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

You must now find out who is this person which if you don't  know him you will die in ignorance  even if you pray & fast & avoid commiting sins .

So then your practically saying I NEED to call on to the imams at the mosque to direct me to Allah. 
otherwise my prayers fast and good deeds don’t count as a Muslim?

that’s the missing piece for me?

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9 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

So then your practically saying I NEED to call on to the imams at the mosque to direct me to Allah. 
otherwise my prayers fast and good deeds don’t count as a Muslim?

that’s the missing piece for me?

No, he is saying that if you do not find out who the Ulil Amr are then you would be disobeying the command of Allah by not following their commands.

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8 minutes ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

No, he is saying that if you do not find out who the Ulil Amr are then you would be disobeying the command of Allah by not following their commands.

4:59) O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.[1]

 

Ya I get it. But obviously we differ on what is being meant by Allah. 
 

- all Muslims obey ulil amr

- you believe it only refers to a few people in which you also have 0 evidence who exactly Allah was talking about 

- since he didn’t mention the Ahlul batt or any other names specifically then that means WE cannot be specific either. Although I’m sure ahlul bayt are included obviously 

 

- if you’re whole entire faith relies on this verse in the Quran, and you think Allah cares about the family of the prophet any more than he cares about all the Muslims then you’re wrong. 
 

Two words in one verse of a book of 77,000 words that isn’t even clear about what it means and you think you have a whole solid case. Sorry bro but you are part of a handful. If it was true more people would agree. but I don’t agree if I don’t know who they are specifically I am not obeying Allah. And the second part of that verse literally means I don’t need ulil Amr to that extent as u claim. 
 

“refer to Allah and his messenger” 

not to ulil Amr. Not to Ali. Not to Hussein. 

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On 8/30/2021 at 7:14 PM, Guest Reply said:

Because 99% of what Shias follow is pointless to Allah and does not effect his relationship. 

and some Shias follow it a lot more extreme at the point where it gets haram. 
so the whole concept of a sect is technically haram. 
goes for sunnies too

Shias are the people who followed Ali ibn Abi Talib after the Prophets death. This is basic concept: the Prophet would never leave the entire world without appointing his successor. It would make zero sense if he just built this entire religion and then left the world to a people who were burying their daughters 25 years earlier.

There are two groups that emerged on the day the Prophet died, the sect which sticked to the Prophets successor and another sect which did not, and these are the same people who say their leadership is determined by an election, yet there was no election committee, completely ironic. 

These are the same people that while the Prophets successor was doing the janazah of the prophet, the other sect was busy discussing about power at the place called Saqifah.

These are the same people who put Muawiyah in power of Syria, the same Muawiya that was kicked out of the city by the Prophet. The same muawiyah who initiated the cursing of Ali ibn Abi Talib. The same Muawiya who married a christian and brought his child, yazid, around haram, the same Yazid who murdered our beloved Hussain ibn Ali and his family.

These are the same people who attacked the house of Fatima and denied her the Fadak.

These are the same people who sent Khalid ibn Waleed to kill Malik bin Nuwayrah when Malik agreed to only pay zakat to Ali ibn Abi Talib and not the government of Abu Bakr.

All of this is unanimously agreed and stated in the Saheeh of the Sunni Books

The Shia are those who held onto the rope of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and his chosen ones.

 

 

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1 hour ago, FollowerofIslam said:

Shias are the people who followed Ali ibn Abi Talib after the Prophets death.

No GOOD Muslims are the ones who followed Ali Ibn taleb, not Shias. 

 

1 hour ago, FollowerofIslam said:

the Prophet would never leave the entire world without appointing his successor. It would make zero sense if he just built this entire religion and then left the world to a people who were burying their daughters 25 years earlier.

But he did do just that Lol. Only cause some people said that doesn’t mean u need to agree. 
allah says differently, you claim to follow Allah. So you’re whole belief system doesn’t make sense. Allah said Muhammad was the final messenger. Everyone after his Is a normal human. Not a prophet. They tried to continue the message of Islam. Just as the imams at masjids do. They do what they believe is right. So people did just that during the prophets death. They weren’t Sunnis or Shias. If they did true good. Allah knows. And they are Muslims. If they did bad. Allah knows. And they are mislead Muslims, or even worse kufar to Allah. ALLAH knows. 

 

1 hour ago, FollowerofIslam said:

There are two groups that emerged on the day the Prophet died, the sect which sticked to the Prophets successor and another sect which did not, and these are the same people who say their leadership is determined by an election, yet there was no election committee, completely ironic. 

“Those normal people” are not Sunnis. As I stated. If they tried to do good Allah Ye3lim only. We don’t. Those “Sunnis” and “Shias” are just people after the prophet died. You are following random minds that have mixed this religion up. You don’t know who you are following if you don’t follow allahs words you are practically following the devil without you knowing (in general not you). If someone follows something man made you are not following allahs words. Then who’s????? Will you backtrack? Was it aishas cousin? Was it Muhammad’s neighbor? Was there someone we don’t know who told us to worship the imams 200 years after the imams died? Just like Peter and John made the world believe Jesus is god. TRUST NO MAN

 

1 hour ago, FollowerofIslam said:

These are the same people that while the Prophets successor was doing the janazah of the prophet, the other sect was busy discussing about power at the place called Saqifah.

PEOPLE, that we have nothing to do with. Not our time. Not our fight. Allah saw it all. Why are you worried about what other people did. Follow allahs words only. He has made everything clear. Until you add man words 

 

1 hour ago, FollowerofIslam said:

These are the same people who sent Khalid ibn Waleed to kill Malik bin Nuwayrah when Malik 

LOL ALLAH DOESNT CARE WHY SHOULD I. 

ALLAH WILL JUDGE WHO DOES GOOD AND BAD. 

stop adding stuff to religion that does not matter 

1 hour ago, FollowerofIslam said:

The Shia are those who held onto the rope of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and his chosen ones

The Shia are apart of a sect and Muhammad will not associate with anyone from a sect. So I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU SAY DIFFERENT 

Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only [left] to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

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There is a hadith which would highlight whether a person can go to heaven without the Ahlul Bayt or not. And I am quoting it from Sunni source:

فلو أن رجلا صفن بين الركن والمقام فصلى ، وصام ثم لقي الله وهو مبغض لأهل بيت محمد دخل النار 

If a man lined up between the al-Rukn and al-Maqam (in Ka'ba) and prayed, fasted and then met God while hating the people of the House of Muhammad, he would enter Hellfire.

هذا حديث حسن صحيح على شرط مسلم ، ولم يخرجاه .

المستدرك على الصحيحين 

The love (mawaddat) of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is necessary for us to go to heaven.  

قل لا أسألكم عليه أجرا إلا المودة في القربى

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27 minutes ago, Cool said:

There is a hadith which would highlight whether a person can go to heaven without the Ahlul Bayt or not

 

27 minutes ago, Cool said:

then met God while hating the people of the House of Muhammad

Big difference. 
Sunnis don’t hate the ahlul bayt. So they are following the Hadith correct. You are worshipping them which I can pull 1000 verses and Hadith that show u that’s wrong. 
but then you will claim you don’t worship them, just asking them for help. 
well then I can show you that’s wrong. 
then you will call me a wahabi so forget all that Lol

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5 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

if you’re whole entire faith relies on this verse in the Quran

No, the entire Shia faith does not rely on this verse.

5 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

you think Allah cares about the family of the prophet any more than he cares about all the Muslims then you’re wrong. 

 

2 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

LOL ALLAH DOESNT CARE WHY SHOULD I. 

ALLAH WILL JUDGE WHO DOES GOOD AND BAD. 

How do you know what Allah cares about? Bring me a verse that proves your point.

2 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

The Shia are apart of a sect and Muhammad will not associate with anyone from a sect. So I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU SAY DIFFERENT 

Have you ignored what I have told you previously in the other thread? You are also part of a sect. A sect that only follows the Quran.

2 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

You don’t know who you are following if you don’t follow allahs words you are practically following the devil without you knowing (in general not you).

We follow Allah and the Prophet.

2 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

worship the imams

You are undermining your own argument by repetitively saying we "worship" the Imams despite the amount of times you were told we do not worship them.

2 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

No GOOD Muslims are the ones who followed Ali Ibn taleb, not Shias. 

Shias are followers of Ali. That is what Shia (شيعة) means.

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5 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

Those normal people” are not Sunnis. As I stated. If they tried to do good Allah Ye3lim only. We don’t. Those “Sunnis” and “Shias” are just people after the prophet died.

Salam

 

The Shi'ah are the real Ahlul-Sunnah

Muhammad al-Tijani al-Samawi

5 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

The Shia are apart of a sect and Muhammad will not associate with anyone from a sect. So I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU SAY DIFFERENT 

Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only [left] to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

The First Incident that Led to Dividing the Muslim Ummah into Shi`as and Sunnis

It is the stunningly sad stand taken by Umar ibn al-Khattab and a number of other sahaba against an order by the Messenger of Allah to bring him something to record a testament for them. He promised that this would prevent their backsliding into error.1

Quote

This Thursday Calamity is, indeed, a most tragic one. It is narrated by all authors of sahihs and sunan and is documented by all traditionists and historians. In a section dealing with the statement of the ailing Messenger ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)): “Get away from me,” al-Bukhari records it in his Sahih,2

 

Quote

Ibn Abbas has said,

When death approached the Messenger of Allah, there were many men present at his house. One of them was Umar ibn al-Khattab. The Messenger of Allah said: “Bring me ink and a tablet so that I may write you something that will safeguard you against straying after me.”

Those present at his house disputed among themselves. Some of them said, “Come close and watch the Prophet write you something,” while others repeated what Umar had said. When the argument and dispute intensified, the Messenger of Allah, became crossed and said: “Get away from me.”3

This proves that the traditionists who did not wish to state the name of the person who went against the Prophet's wish had nontheless quoted his statement verbatim. In a chapter on rewarding the envoys, in his book Al-Jihad wal Siyar, page 118, Vol. 2, al-Bukhari states:

Quote

Those normal people” are not Sunnis. As I stated. If they tried to do good Allah Ye3lim only. We don’t. Those “Sunnis” and “Shias” are just people after the prophet died. You are following random minds that have mixed this religion up. 

Identifying Ahlul Sunnah

Quote

Based on these premises, Ali ibn Abu Talib and his followers, according to them, were not counted among “Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama`ah,” as if this term, i.e. “Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama`ah,” was coined to confront and juxtapose Ali and his followers. This is the major reason for the division which afflicted the Islamic Ummah following the demise of the Messenger of Allah into Sunnis and Shi`as.

If we go back to analyze the underlying factors and remove the curtains, relying on the authentic historical references, we will then find out that such a distinction surfaced immediately after the death of the Messenger of Allah. Abu Bakr soon took control, having ascended to the seat of government with the help of the vast majority of the sahaba. Ali ibn Abu Talib and Banu Hashim in addition to a very small number of the sahaba who were politically weak did not accept him.

 

5 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

Then who’s????? Will you backtrack? Was it aishas cousin? Was it Muhammad’s neighbor? Was there someone we don’t know who told us to worship the imams 200 years after the imams died? Just like Peter and John made the world believe Jesus is god. TRUST NO MAN

at least trust on your intellect & find out who is following way of Allah & who is following footstpes of cursed Shaitan by accusing Shias to worshipping the Imams & if you don't have any valid reason at least stop your wahabi/salafi rhetoric about worshipping the Imams by Shias .

Quote

Contemporary “Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama`ah,” as I know them, are not fanatics, nor are they against Imam Ali or Ahlul Bayt; rather, they love and respect them, but they, at the same time, also love and respect the enemies of Ahlul Bayt and follow in their footsteps, thinking that “they all sought nearness to the Messenger of Allah.”

“Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama`ah” do not act upon the principle of befriending the friends of Allah and dissociating themselves from the enemies of Allah; rather, they love everyone and seek nearness to Mu`awiyah ibn Abu Sufyan just as they seek nearness to Ali ibn Abu Talib.

https://www.al-islam.org/shiah-are-real-ahlul-sunnah-muhammad-al-tijani-al-samawi

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7 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

How do you know what Allah cares about? Bring me a verse that proves your point

Brother I only use evidence and logic in a conversation. 
You have been 80% faith 20% evidence

with 100% of your evidence 50% of it being not clear by all Muslims. 
 

- if you want me to pull out verses that Prove the point I made above. 
I will be bringing you over 100 verses that Allah mention about JAMEE3 al muslimeen where as we have 1 verse which Only You and Shias believe it’s referring ONLY to the imams. Although I do believe the imams would be the authority people Allah did refer too. But your explanation has no backbone. And hence mY point Allah means it a different way then you explain. He mentions all Muslims all throughout the book. He also cares more about the kufar than he does of the imams.

another Shia claimed imams are just as equal as all prophets….. 

SAYS HIM. Everybody thinks different. It’s okay! But it’s wrong as well to not think logically. 

8 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

Have you ignored what I have told you previously in the other thread? You are also part of a sect. A sect that only follows the Quran

Whether YOU consider me a sect or not is irrelevant. Whether I consider you a sect or not doesn’t matter. What does Allah want. That is what we are talking about now. You are a normal human. I don’t label myself a sect so no I wouldn’t consider myself a sect. I am Proud to call myself a Muslim and nothing else. You label yourself Shia Muslim. It’s clear bro don’t do that to our conversation and dumb me down. Just admit it is a sect you can’t define something your way in life when it’s stated in the Webster’s dictionary lol. And I told u already many times I don’t only follow the Quran. 

 

8 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

We follow Allah and the Prophet

And a bunch of text that’s irrelevant to Allah said by unreliable sources who not all have authority. Even if Bukhari has authority which maybe Allah did give him since he gave us good hadiths, not all his words might be true. Could have been altered along the lines. Same for all your hadiths. The only perfect word is allahs In the Quran . The hadith that teach us how to follow the Quran are okay. The hadith that tell us to do some thing NONE of the prophets have told us, not even Muhammad just makes 0 sense to follow. The prophet never said Ya Hussein or Ya Ali. Nor did the prophet teach you need his family to reach Allah. So you get my point. 

 

8 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

You are undermining your own argument by repetitively saying we "worship" the Imams despite the amount of times you were told we do not worship them

Just cause you don’t doesn’t mean nothing. Many Shias do. They are shiat Ali. Yet you have no comment about that. I’ve already explained why they do that and it’s understandable. Sects will do that to people 

 

8 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

Shias are followers of Ali. That is what Shia (شيعة) means

Ok all Muslims are followers of Ali. You are nothing special to be a sect. You are a shia because they worship Ali. And I’m tired of repeating that myself but facts are facts. You might be a different shia but still go to a mosque where you invoke other people besides Allah. So you are a sect

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5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:
11 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

The Shia are apart of a sect and Muhammad will not associate with anyone from a sect. So I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU SAY DIFFERENT 

Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only [left] to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

The First Incident that Led to Dividing the Muslim Ummah into Shi`as and Sunnis

It is the stunningly sad stand taken by Umar ibn al-Khattab and a number of other sahaba against an order by the Messenger of Allah to bring him something to record a testament for them. He promised that this would prevent their backsliding into error.1

I don’t care what they did. It wasn’t my fight. Allah knows

 

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:
11 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

 

at least trust on your intellect & find out who is following way of Allah & who is following footstpes of cursed Shaitan by accusing Shias to worshipping the Imams & if you don't have any valid reason at least stop your wahabi/salafi rhetoric about worshipping the Imams by Shias

I’m sorry the term worship is exaggerated. But they you view him is as a god from other peoples point of view. Like he is divine. He can talk to god. As IF your worship him. That’s whT I mean. 
 

———- 

I don’t know a Muhammad al samawi nor is he more educated than a normal human Muslim. 
 

show me evidence that is 100% uncorrupted. 
 

the only text that would be is from the Quran. 
 

Anyways please don’t reply I don’t have time for this we already talked about this and I understand now Shias don’t even like talking about the Quran verse. You guys prefer the hadiths over it smh!

allah knows what’s in everyone’s heart  goodluck everybody 

but Ali would be disappointed.

 

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