Thinking of leaving Shiism

[Baseer]

I've watched this video a few times and to be honest with you guys, it's made me seriously reconsider whether or not Shiism is correct. I mean all the things he lists in the video I've never seen a Shiite response to this to it. I'm starting to think Sunni's are correct and we Shiites have been mislead. If anyone has a response to everything inside this video then please let me know. Until then, I may convert to a Sunni in the near future if I don't find haqq in Shiism.

[Abu_Zahra]

Salaam alaikum. If you would be kind to list the ten points we can discuss them inshaAllah. 

[Guest Why]

#1 is all that explains it

 

shiism revolves around the creation not the creator. 

[Cool]

1 hour ago, Baseer said:

Until then, I may convert to a Sunni in the near future if I don't find haqq in Shiism.

What is Shiism? Why you are a shia if you think it is not haqq? 

Never ever blindly follow any religion or sect. Find the truth and accept it and be with the truthful ones,.this is what shiaism is. 

[Guest Window]

Bogus video. 

I could refute the points made in this video, but the rhetoric presented isn't even worth conversation and debate.

[Debate follower]

27 minutes ago, Cool said:

What is Shiism? Why you are a shia if you think it is not haqq? 

Obviously he is born in a Shia family.  He is having some doubts so he has come here, if you can help clear those doubts.

[Diaz]

2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Salaam alaikum. If you would be kind to list the ten points we can discuss them inshaAllah. 

Here is it brother.

[pseudonym]

Confused? why would these points lead someone away from Shia Islam? why would a short 10 minute video bring about this thought process? 

Baseer,, please explain further why,,,,,  what is the core reason why you would consider leaving Shia Islam?

[Guest Psychological Warfare]

This is what Allah(عزّ وجلّ) Commanded you to focus on Five times a day. 

Quote

إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ {5}

[Shakir 1:5] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
[Pickthal 1:5] Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
[Yusufali 1:5] Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.

 

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ {6}

[Shakir 1:6] Keep us on the right path.
[Pickthal 1:6] Show us the straight path,
[Yusufali 1:6] Show us the straight way,

 

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ {7}

[Shakir 1:7] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
[Pickthal 1:7] The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
[Yusufali 1:7] The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

https://quran.al-islam.org/

Regarding Karbala

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060208-the-massacre-of-karbala-a-historical-analysis-non-shia-view/

[ShiaMan14]

3 hours ago, Baseer said:

I've watched this video a few times and to be honest with you guys, it's made me seriously reconsider whether or not Shiism is correct. I mean all the things he lists in the video I've never seen a Shiite response to this to it. I'm starting to think Sunni's are correct and we Shiites have been mislead. If anyone has a response to everything inside this video then please let me know. Until then, I may convert to a Sunni in the near future if I don't find haqq in Shiism.

Wow - all it took was to watch 1 video for you to consider leaving Shiism. I hope you don't watch any videos on why Hinduism is right and decide to convert again.

You can just as well come out and ask us to answer this video without claiming to be someone you are not. I think you just want everyone to watch the video.

Regardless of who you are, I have news for you. There is nothing in this video that has not been discussed before.

Leaving aside the obvious fact that this person is reading from a script, the 10 reasons are quite superficial and ridiculous.

01) Shias don't focus on Allah:
         One of the signs of a momim (shia) is that he/she should prays 51 rakah per day. 

02) Access to hadiths
         Shias and sunnis genuinely disregard each others sources for obvious reasons. And yet there are plenty of mutawatir (accepted by both) to discuss Islam.

03) Acceptance of Companions
         We have completely different criteria for companions. In Shiism, companions are not hit by a magic wand and become great nor do we bury our head in the sand about the grave errors by Companions. Authentic sunni hadith tell us that companions will go astray and they did.

04) Access to Ahlul-Bayt's real teachings
         Do we even have to go there?

05) Taqiyah free Ahlul-Bayt
        Their teachings are prescribed per the situation. when you find a discrepancy, let's discuss 

06) Access to context of Quran
        No prominent shia scholar believes in tahreef of Quran. There are more sunni references to quran tahreef than shia ones.

07) Reliable books of tafseer
        Tafsir Al-Qummi by Mohammad bin Ali bin Ibrahim Al-Qummi (?? - 919 AD)
        Tafsir Ayyashi by Mohammad ibn Masoud Ayyashi (died 932 AD)
        Tafsir Furat Kufi by Furat Ibn Ibrahim al-Kufi [Wikidata] (died 964 AD)
        Tafsir al-Nu'mani by Muhammad b. Ibrahim al-Nu'mani (died 971 AD)
        Al-Tibbyan Fi Tafsir al-Quran by Shaikh Tusi (995 AD - 1067 AD)
        Majma' al-Bayan by Shaykh Tabarsi (1073 AD - 1153 AD)
        Tafsir Safi by Mohsen Fayz Kashani ( ?? - 1680 AD)
        Al-Burhan Fi Tafsir al-Quran by Syed Hashim al Bahrani (died 1696 AD)
        Tafsir Noor al-Thaqalayn by Abd al-Ali ibn Juma Aroosi [Wikidata] (died 1701 AD)
        Tafsir al-Mizan by Allamah Tabatabai (1903 AD - 1981 AD)
        Al-Bayan Fi Tafsir al-Quran by Abu al-Qasim al-Khoei (1899 AD - 1992 AD)
        Fasal Khizab by Mufti Jafar Hussain (1914 AD - 1982)
        Tafsir Anwar e Najaf fi Asrar Mushaf [Wikidata] by Hussain Bakhsh Jarra (1920 AD - 1990 AD)
        Tafsir Nemooneh by Naser Makarem Shirazi (1927 AD - Present)
        Faizan Ur Rehman by Muhammad Hussain Najafi (1932 AD to present)
        Tasneem Tafsir by Abdollah Javadi Amoli (1933 AD to present)
        Tafsir Rahnama by Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani (1934 AD - 2017 AD)
        Al Kauthar fi Tafsir Al Quran by Mohsin Ali Najafi (1938 AD to Present)
        Tafseer e Masoomeen (عليه السلام) compiled by Wilayat Mission

08) Access to Prophet's biography
        Hayat-Al-Qulub - biography of Prophets

09) Trust in Hadith compilers.
        Bukhari has more ahadith from Huraira who was beaten up for lying than for Ali Al-Siddique.

10) Realistic Karbala Narrative
        Simply read the narrative by Abu Miknaf and countless books that details a very realistic narrative of the events of Karbala.

 

Please, please stay shia now or may be making a video will convince you  
 

 

[Guest Psychological Warfare]

Here 

Quote

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

Thursday! And how great that Thursday was! The ailment of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) became worse (on Thursday) and he said, fetch me something so that I may write to you something after which you will never go astray." The people (present there) differed in this matter, and it was not right to differ before a prophet. Some said, "What is wrong with him ? (Do you think ) he is delirious (seriously ill)? Ask him ( to understand his state )." So they went to the Prophet (ﷺ) and asked him again. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Leave me, for my present state is better than what you call me for." Then he ordered them to do three things. He said, "Turn the pagans out of the 'Arabian Peninsula; respect and give gifts to the foreign delegations as you have seen me dealing with them." (Sa`id bin Jubair, the sub-narrator said that Ibn `Abbas kept quiet as rewards the third order, or he said, "I forgot it.") (See Hadith No. 116 Vol. 1)

 

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ الأَحْوَلِ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ جُبَيْرٍ، قَالَ قَالَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ يَوْمُ الْخَمِيسِ وَمَا يَوْمُ الْخَمِيسِ اشْتَدَّ بِرَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَجَعُهُ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ ائْتُونِي أَكْتُبْ لَكُمْ كِتَابًا لَنْ تَضِلُّوا بَعْدَهُ أَبَدًا ‏"‏‏.‏ فَتَنَازَعُوا، وَلاَ يَنْبَغِي عِنْدَ نَبِيٍّ تَنَازُعٌ، فَقَالُوا مَا شَأْنُهُ أَهَجَرَ اسْتَفْهِمُوهُ فَذَهَبُوا يَرُدُّونَ عَلَيْهِ‏.‏ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ دَعُونِي فَالَّذِي أَنَا فِيهِ خَيْرٌ مِمَّا تَدْعُونِي إِلَيْهِ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَأَوْصَاهُمْ بِثَلاَثٍ قَالَ ‏"‏ أَخْرِجُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ مِنْ جَزِيرَةِ الْعَرَبِ، وَأَجِيزُوا الْوَفْدَ بِنَحْوِ مَا كُنْتُ أُجِيزُهُمْ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَسَكَتَ عَنِ الثَّالِثَةِ، أَوْ قَالَ فَنَسِيتُهَا‏.‏

 

Reference	: Sahih al-Bukhari 4431
In-book reference	: Book 64, Hadith 453

https://sunnah.com/search?q=Abbas+thursday

-----

This Focus on Allah(عزّ وجلّ) sounds like a derivative of 'Book is Sufficient" , Now Allah(عزّ وجلّ) is Sufficient. While Allah(عزّ وجلّ) can't be role modeled , You guys can't even read and follow the book of Allah(عزّ وجلّ) , properly like the people who were on the wrong side on the Tragedy of Thursday . Apple does not fall fa away from the tree. 

قُلْ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللَّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللَّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ ۗ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ {31}

[Shakir 3:31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
[Pickthal 3:31] Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[Yusufali 3:31] Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Allah(عزّ وجلّ) commanded you to follow Muhammad al- Musfata( peace be upon him and his pure progeny ) said 

"Then the Messenger of Allah continued: "Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?”People cried and answered: "Yes, O’ Messenger of God.”Then Prophet (S) held up the hand of ‘Ali and said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), ‘Ali is his leader (Mawla). O’ God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him."

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/ghadir-khum-part-1

Reality is that Karbala, Exposes the reality of the Entire System, which started with Tragedy of Thursday, Saqifa, Fadak, Battle of Jamal, Battle of Siffin.  61 AH the entire Ummah was focused on god in such a way that they slaughtered the Son of Muhammad al-Mustafa ( peace be upon him and his pure progeny) and took is daughters captives and paraded them with pride. And you must be pleased with them ALL, the oppressed and the oppressors. Wonder why people are rejecting this kind of hypocrisy.?  so make more videos but Truth can't be hidden. 

[Mohamad Abdel-Hamid]

The YouTube channel "Sunnah Discourse" is built upon criticising, trying to disprove, mocking and insulting Shi'ism and Shia Muslims and scholars. Literally every single video is "Shia bad", "Shia wrong", "Shia ex-convert", "Shia mushriks", "Shia belief destroyed", etc... Not to mention their disrespectful thumbnails. I mean imagine the purpose in your life being to wake up in the morning and simply showing the world how much you hate Shi'ism, not to mention their videos are just lies, lies and more lies everywhere.

Compare that to the channel "Dhul Fiqar al-Mahgribi" (it's an Arabic channel), where he responds to those lying Salafis, bringing and showing in every single video proof and evidence from their own books, all the while speaking respectfully. Of course he shows no respite to whoever insults and blatantly lies about Shi'ism, and on top of that he's such a funny man.

If only one video made you have doubts about Shi'ism, a single minute of Dhul Fiqar al-Maghribi will put you back on track and remove all of your doubts.

Other than that, @ShiaMan14 explained shortly some of the points presented by the video.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Mohamad Abdel-Hamid

[Abu Nur]

Salaam Aleikum

You need to point out the issues you have so you can also discuss it with us. It is pointless to paste a video and not at all join in conversation.

[ShiaMan14]

Might I add, "thinking" and "leaving shiism" is an oxymoron.

[Abu_Zahra]

3 hours ago, Diaz said:

Here is it brother.

Thanks for sharing brother. As @ShiaMan14 has mentioned in his post, most of these points can be quite quickly addressed (in fact he has briefly done so already). 

I think the problem often stems from a lack of research. 

Also as usual, it's interesting to note that none of the points cover the core differentiating factor which is the wilayah of Imam Ali (عليه السلام). 

[Guest Reply]

2 hours ago, pseudonym said:

Confused? why would these points lead someone away from Shia Islam? why would a short 10 minute video bring about this thought process? 

Baseer,, please explain further why,,,,,  what is the core reason why you would consider leaving Shia Islam?

Because 99% of what Shias follow is pointless to Allah and does not effect his relationship. 

and some Shias follow it a lot more extreme at the point where it gets haram. 
so the whole concept of a sect is technically haram. 
goes for sunnies too

[Gaius I. Caesar]

35 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I think the problem often stems from a lack of research.

^ Which is what that channel preys on, as I understand it. Sunni Defence/Defense caters and tries to appeal to people who don't do their research or have doubts. Also most of their debates devolve into ganging up, intellectual dishonesty and screaming matches,. Farid is a member of this channel, by the way, @Mahdavist and @ShiaMan14.

[Guest Psychological Warfare]

Quote

Because 99% of what Shias follow is pointless to Allah and does not effect his relationship. 

Which allah? must be the same these followed and worshiped. 

Quote

The Trampling on al-Husayn’s Body

Thereafter, ‘Umar bin Sa‘d called out to his followers: “Who will volunteer [to go] to al-Husayn and make his horse trample on [his body]?” Ten [men] volunteered. Of these, Ishaq bin Haiwah al-Hadhrami and Ahbash bin Mirthad al-Hadhrami came forward and trampled on [the body of] al-Husayn (عليه السلام) with their horses until they had crushed his back and chest.6

‘Umar bin Sa‘d then performed the funeral prayer for those of his followers who were killed, and buried them. He dispatched on the same day the head of [the Imam (as)] with Khauliyy bin Yazid to ‘Ubaidullah bin Ziyad. When Khauliyy approached the palace, he found that the gate of the palace was closed. So he went to his house7 and placed the head beneath a [large] bowl. In the early morning of the next day, he went to ‘Ubaidullah bin Ziyad with the head.

https://www.al-islam.org/event-taff-earliest-historical-account-tragedy-karbala-abu-mikhnaf/after-martyrdom-al-husayn#trampling-al-husayns-body

 

Not the Allah(عزّ وجلّ) who blessed us with the Book and His Representative. 

https://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-ayatullah-al-udhma-shaykh-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-leadership

[ShiaMan14]

38 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

^ Which is what that channel preys on, as I understand it. Sunni Defence/Defense caters and tries to appeal to people who don't do their research or have doubts. Also most of their debates devolve into ganging up, intellectual dishonesty and screaming matches,. Farid is a member of this channel, by the way, @Mahdavist and @ShiaMan14.

Thanks, I figured as much from the email addresses at the end.

I have no doubt that @Baseer simply wants clicks to that video and channel.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

1 hour ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Thanks, I figured as much from the email addresses at the end.

I have no doubt that @Baseer simply wants clicks to that video and channel.

Also one of their da'ee got busted or outed as a sexual predator,  so I wouldn't take my religion from these people anyway; How could I trust them after that? @ShiaMan14 @Baseer @Mahdavist

[Cool]

9 hours ago, Debate follower said:

if you can help clear those doubts.

I think I have helped him.

Do you want me to refute the ridiculous 10 points mentioned in the video? 

A better way would be to let this person search for the truth. Truth unveils itself to every sincere seeker. 

Wassalam!!

[pseudonym]

The first point is all we need to focus on and has already been addressed but i'll pipe in too.

How does a person focus on Allah? Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is beyond comparison and the only way we can get to know Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is through creation. Amongst the creation the best thing that has been created is us the human beings.

The best amongst the human beings is Prophet Mohammed(saaw) then his pure progeny the Ahlul-Bayt ((عليه السلام)). Therefore in order to get to focus on Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) you have no better way than to go via the greatest route which is the Ahlul-Bayt((عليه السلام)) and the Quran both together.

Focus on Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the root of Islam for both Shias and Sunnis, just because something may appear as a waste of time and energy to those who don't understand it, then why not do the noble thing for yourself and try to understand it for what it is. 

On a separate note do you honestly think that we can't come up with a 10 minute video about reasons to leave Sunni Islam? of course we can but we respect our Sunni brothers as fellow Muslims and don't need to waste our time on such things..

 

[Ali bin Hussein]

15 hours ago, Baseer said:

I've watched this video a few times and to be honest with you guys, it's made me seriously reconsider whether or not Shiism is correct. I mean all the things he lists in the video I've never seen a Shiite response to this to it. I'm starting to think Sunni's are correct and we Shiites have been mislead. If anyone has a response to everything inside this video then please let me know. Until then, I may convert to a Sunni in the near future if I don't find haqq in Shiism.

Do your research ask Shia scholars questions.

Shia is a broad term. There are 12er, Zaidi ismali, 12er reformist etc

A few sites to check:

https://www.al-islam.org/

http://www.salvationark.com/salvationark1/index.php/forum/index

https://zaidiportal.com/

All of them have a question section where you are free to ask.

[Guest Based]

1. focus on Allah

This claim that Shias don’t focus seems strange and dishonest to someone who frequents a Shia mosque. We pray, recite Quran, make dua to Allah alone just as much as Sunnis do. They only way someone would come to that conclusion is if they view Shiism through the lenses of salafi propagators who cherry pick video from extreme Shias to make Shias as a whole look bad. Even if this is true and most Shia didn’t focus on Allah, this still has no relevance to the core difference between Sunni and Shia, the question of succession to the prophet. If true this would be an point against the common mindset of the Shia masses today, it is solved by simply focusing on Allah as Shia, this is irrelevant to the question of Sunni vs Shia.

2. Access to Hadith

what they don’t mention is that any Hadith which can be authentically traced back to for example Imam Jafar al Sadiq, also goes back to the Prophet. Even without the doctrine of Imamate, Imam al Sadiq was taught by Imam al Baqir, who was taught by Imam Sajjad, who was taught by Imam Hussain, who was taught by Imam Ali, going back to the Prophet through a golden chain that is far more reliable then something narrated through questionable individuals such as Aisha or Abu Huraira. The video also seems to insinuate that Shias somehow don’t have access to Sunni narrations or reject all Sunni narrations, which is obviously ridiculous since a well researched Shia can easily use many authentic Sunni hadiths to prove many Shia points. It’s become a pretty standard protocol for Shias to only use authentic Sunnis hadiths when bringing evidence for Shiism to a Sunni. 

3. Accepting companions

Shias accept the companions that were loyal to the instructions of the prophet regarding the succession of Ali. Sunnis believe that anyone who met the prophet as a Muslim is a companion, and are inherently truthful and righteous, a doctrine which clearly makes no sense when you look at the actions of some of their revered companions. How am I as a Muslim meant to accept someone who called the prophet delusional when he wanted to write something so that we will never go astray. How am I meant to accept someone who stole Fadak from Ali and Fatimah on the pretext of a false Hadith that Fatimah debunked with the Quran. How am I meant to accept those who attacked the house of Ali and Fatimah. How am I meant to accept someone who beheaded Malik ibn Nuwayra and raped his wife. How am I meant to accept those who fought waged a war unprovoked against Ali at Jamal. How am meant to accept Muawiyah who fought Ali at Siffin and flagrantly broke the terms of his peace treaty with Hassan. All of these people are revered figures in Sunnism who can’t be questioned and must be accepted as inherit entry righteous and truthful as part of their creed. If you want to convert to that then good luck trying to justify defending and having love for these people on the day of judgement.

 

4. real teaching of ahlulbayt

Even if we were to throw MUH EVIL LYING KUFAN NARRATORS out the window Shias can still prove their point with only Sunni books. And this sweeping claim that the salafi is making in only a couple seconds without evidence would need much more research before it can be accepted, on the other side of the coin we know buhkari didn’t narrate anything from Jafar al Sadiq  and we know that the 4 sunnis imams didn’t narrate from the imams even though they were their students.

I Appreciate the honest unbiased take from abu layth on this topic even thought he’s Sunni. 
if this point is causing you doubt you need to do your own research on the matter instead of accepting claims by anyone be they Sunnis or Shia.

 

5. Taqiyah free ahlulbayt

the question isn’t whether or not it would be more nice and comfortable to have a Taqiyah free ahlulbayt, the question is did they have to practise taiqyah, considering the fact that they lived under surveillance by hostile regimes of Umayyads and Abbasids, if we assume that they imams were in fact Shia then they would have no choice to practise taqiyah sometimes, or else they would be killed and the teachings of Shiism along with them. The salafi is essentially saying that it preferable to have a ahlulbayt without taiqyah, which is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not the Imams had to do taqiyah. Again, do your own research.

 

 6 Context of the Quran

When he says that sunnis have a monopoly over something what that means in reality is that there is little or no disagreement between the sects on the subject, not much of  point to be made.

 

7. Tafsir of the Quran

another brother has posted a list of Shia tafsir so start with that. Regarding tafsir al qummi I have heard that the part about tahreef  of Quran was an inauthentic addition to the text, but I need to do more research on the topic, and you would need to do so as well. (Notice a recurring theme here is to do your own research)

8. Prophet’s biography

This is simply because there is little disagreement between us on this matter. I’m not sure why the salafi thinks that when Sunnis and Shias agree with each other on something this is somehow an argument against Shias.

 

9. Trust in Hadith compilers

Also authentic Sunni Hadith contain a  lot of just plain ridiculous Hadith from people like Aisha and Abu Huraira (Aisha breastfeeding, prophet attempting suicide, satanic revelations, story of the first revelation etc )which the enemies of Islam can use with ease to attack islam. Having complete faith in Sunni Hadith makes you have to accept and justify a lot of nonsense, whereas Shias view the Sunnis Hadith holistically and objectively without being obliged by our doctrine to take all of it unquestioning.

10. Realistically

To say that the numbers of people killed by Hussains camp by some narrations makes the Shia view unrealistic is just a red herring, not relevant and only distracts from the real difference between the Sunni and Shia view of Karbala. Behind the what  was mentioned in that video is a much more disrespectful and ugly truth about what the Sunnis or specifically Salafis think about Karbala, that Hussain was mistaken to rise up, that he was doing it for power and political reasons rather then because his sacrifice was necessarily for to revive the religion that had deviated from what it was originally. If you look further into Sunni defence you can find videos of them defending yazid, saying that he never wanted Hussain dead, was angry at his army for killing them, and treated the captives with respect. This is in following with their revered Sheikh ul Nawasib ibn Taymiyyah who said about Yazid:

Ibn Taymiyyah said;

“Yazeed was from the teenage muslims he was neither a disbeliever nor a Zindeeq (heretic) he used to give a lot (of wealth in charity) and he was brave.

He did not have the evil and bad things which the enemies attributed to him.”

(al-Waseeyatul-Kubraa (pg.300), Majmoo al-Fataawa (2/41).

 

Ibn Taymiyyah said:

“This man (Yazeed) was a king from amongst the muslim kings and he was not like this and that (as the people claim).” (Minhaaj as-Sunnah (2/247).

 

Ibn Taymiyyah also said:

“Rather the Islaam of Mu’awiyyah, Yazeed, Banee Ummayyah and Banee Abbaas is established with Tawatur (ie so many narration's) and similarly their praying, fasting and Jihaad against the non-believers is also established.” (Minhaaj as-Sunnah (1/163).

The reason for this disgusting defence of Yazid is because by all Sunni standards Yazid is a legitimate ruler, if Abu Bakr can take power from Ali why can’t Muawiyah take power from Hassan, and if Abu Bakr can give power to Omar without consulting anyone why can’t Muawiyah give power to Yazid without consulting anyone. If Abu Bakr and Omar can try to force Ali to give alliegance why can’t Yazid do the same to Hussain

 

All that to say, the points in the video were really just distractions when it comes to the core issue of succession of Ali vs succession of Abu Bakr. If this the best that the wahabiya can come up with, then alhamduillah it’s only made me more certain in my Shiism.

As brother Ali bin Hussain pointed out Shia is a broad term, this channel tries to portray this as if it’s only either ithna ashariya vs salafiya, which is tbh a very disingenuous approach and this sectarian mindset is completely the wrong attitude to have for a sincere seeker of truth. You should pursue haq regardless of sects instead of trying to make haq fit into the doctrines of any particular sect.

[Debate follower]

8 hours ago, Cool said:

I think I have helped him.

Asssalama alaykum, 

Looks like that since he has not responded with further queries.

Secondly you asked him:

18 hours ago, Cool said:

What is Shiism? Why you are a shia if you think it is not haqq? 

Obviously, he is Shia being born in Shia family.

If I were to ask 99.9% of members on Shiachat (including you), why they are Shia?  Obviously by birth and not using God-given Aql. Same would go me and majority of Sunnis of every shade and colour obviously by birth.

8 hours ago, Cool said:

Do you want me to refute the ridiculous 10 points mentioned in the video? 

If he asks or better, it makes you happy and satisfied

18 hours ago, Cool said:

Never ever blindly follow any religion or sect. Find the truth and accept it and be with the truthful ones,.this is what shiaism is. 

 

8 hours ago, Cool said:

A better way would be to let this person search for the truth. Truth unveils itself to every sincere seeker. 

Ma Sha Allah! very good advice.

That is one of the reasons I admire and respect people who fought and struggled tormenting their delicate souls in search of Truth likes of respected Sisters Hameedeh, Notme, brother Abu Hadi and few others I can’t recall the names off hand (my apologies to them) using their God-Gifted Aql opted for 12er Shiaism and found peace.

On the other hand respected brothers Ali Bin Hussein, Zaidism and there are other few who thought otherwise. They too, fought and struggled tormenting their delicate souls in search of Truth and using their God-Given Aql moved out of 12er Shiaism and found peace in Zaidiyyah Islam and others found peace in Sunni Islam.

But regrettably, around 4 centuries ago great noble of people of Iran were not given any choice.  Safavids steamrolled 12er Shiaism into Azerbaijan and Iran with sword.  And Safavids reformed the 12er Shia faith to what it is practiced today.

According to Daniel W. Brown, Isma'il was "the most successful and intolerant [Shiite] ruler since the fall of the Fatimids". It appears that he aimed for complete destruction of Sunni Islam, and he largely achieved that goal in the lands over which he ruled (Iran and Azerbaijan). His hatred of the Sunnis knew no bounds, and his persecution of them was ruthless.[14] * He required the first three caliphs to be ritually cursed, abolished Sunni Sufi orders, seizing their property, and gave Sunni ulama a choice of conversion, death, or exile. Shi'ite scholars were brought in from other regions to take their place.[15] *

14 A new introduction to Islam. Daniel W. Brown, p. 191.
15 Daniel W. Brown (2009). A New Introduction to Islam. John Wiley & Sons. pp. 235–236.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_conversion_of_Iran_to_Shia_Islam

8 hours ago, Cool said:

Do you want me to refute the ridiculous 10 points mentioned in the video? 

Preferably, I would love if you can comment unbiasedly on the above.
I can already see dear brother Ashvazdanghe cringing and reacting negatively to this

[SoRoUsH]

21 hours ago, Baseer said:

I've watched this video a few times and to be honest with you guys, it's made me seriously reconsider whether or not Shiism is correct. I mean all the things he lists in the video I've never seen a Shiite response to this to it. I'm starting to think Sunni's are correct and we Shiites have been mislead. If anyone has a response to everything inside this video then please let me know. Until then, I may convert to a Sunni in the near future if I don't find haqq in Shiism.

Ultimately, Faith/ایمان is a matter of the heart. You cannot force it in or out of your heart. 

What is most likely bothering you isn't some random video on YouTube. You've probably felt something before; a Shia (family or friend) has probably hurt you before, emotionally, and used Shi'ism to do so. 

That emotional hurt probably shook your heart a bit, and you're now looking to settle your heart again. 

So, though it's good to read and think intellectually about these issues, I would recommend you sooth your heart via good deeds, selfless deeds; and do them for the sake of Allah and His messenger ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). 

It's not always bad to question and wander. Getting lost and finding your way back could be quite enlightening. 

Always have a good opinion of Allah, and always take care of your heart and your spirit by being kind and compassionate/حلیم. 

Think long-term. It's okay to not have answers to your questions right away. 

All the best

[Abu Hadi]

20 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Wow - all it took was to watch 1 video for you to consider leaving Shiism. I hope you don't watch any videos on why Hinduism is right and decide to convert again.

You can just as well come out and ask us to answer this video without claiming to be someone you are not. I think you just want everyone to watch the video.

Regardless of who you are, I have news for you. There is nothing in this video that has not been discussed before.

Leaving aside the obvious fact that this person is reading from a script, the 10 reasons are quite superficial and ridiculous.

01) Shias don't focus on Allah:
         One of the signs of a momim (shia) is that he/she should prays 51 rakah per day. 

02) Access to hadiths
         Shias and sunnis genuinely disregard each others sources for obvious reasons. And yet there are plenty of mutawatir (accepted by both) to discuss Islam.

03) Acceptance of Companions
         We have completely different criteria for companions. In Shiism, companions are not hit by a magic wand and become great nor do we bury our head in the sand about the grave errors by Companions. Authentic sunni hadith tell us that companions will go astray and they did.

04) Access to Ahlul-Bayt's real teachings
         Do we even have to go there?

05) Taqiyah free Ahlul-Bayt
        Their teachings are prescribed per the situation. when you find a discrepancy, let's discuss 

06) Access to context of Quran
        No prominent shia scholar believes in tahreef of Quran. There are more sunni references to quran tahreef than shia ones.

07) Reliable books of tafseer
        Tafsir Al-Qummi by Mohammad bin Ali bin Ibrahim Al-Qummi (?? - 919 AD)
        Tafsir Ayyashi by Mohammad ibn Masoud Ayyashi (died 932 AD)
        Tafsir Furat Kufi by Furat Ibn Ibrahim al-Kufi [Wikidata] (died 964 AD)
        Tafsir al-Nu'mani by Muhammad b. Ibrahim al-Nu'mani (died 971 AD)
        Al-Tibbyan Fi Tafsir al-Quran by Shaikh Tusi (995 AD - 1067 AD)
        Majma' al-Bayan by Shaykh Tabarsi (1073 AD - 1153 AD)
        Tafsir Safi by Mohsen Fayz Kashani ( ?? - 1680 AD)
        Al-Burhan Fi Tafsir al-Quran by Syed Hashim al Bahrani (died 1696 AD)
        Tafsir Noor al-Thaqalayn by Abd al-Ali ibn Juma Aroosi [Wikidata] (died 1701 AD)
        Tafsir al-Mizan by Allamah Tabatabai (1903 AD - 1981 AD)
        Al-Bayan Fi Tafsir al-Quran by Abu al-Qasim al-Khoei (1899 AD - 1992 AD)
        Fasal Khizab by Mufti Jafar Hussain (1914 AD - 1982)
        Tafsir Anwar e Najaf fi Asrar Mushaf [Wikidata] by Hussain Bakhsh Jarra (1920 AD - 1990 AD)
        Tafsir Nemooneh by Naser Makarem Shirazi (1927 AD - Present)
        Faizan Ur Rehman by Muhammad Hussain Najafi (1932 AD to present)
        Tasneem Tafsir by Abdollah Javadi Amoli (1933 AD to present)
        Tafsir Rahnama by Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani (1934 AD - 2017 AD)
        Al Kauthar fi Tafsir Al Quran by Mohsin Ali Najafi (1938 AD to Present)
        Tafseer e Masoomeen (عليه السلام) compiled by Wilayat Mission

08) Access to Prophet's biography
        Hayat-Al-Qulub - biography of Prophets

09) Trust in Hadith compilers.
        Bukhari has more ahadith from Huraira who was beaten up for lying than for Ali Al-Siddique.

10) Realistic Karbala Narrative
        Simply read the narrative by Abu Miknaf and countless books that details a very realistic narrative of the events of Karbala.

 

Please, please stay shia now or may be making a video will convince you  
 

 

I was going to respond, then I read the above and didn't feel it necessary. Thank you brother for saving me a few minutes. 

BTW, this is a common approach I have seen too many times to count by those who are already inclined to leave Shiism and just need that little 'push'. The approach they use is

I'm going to bring up every doubt I have every had in my mind in one post. Prove all these doubts wrong in a few minutes or I'm leaving. So they are asking the impossible, then when someone cannot do it, they say 'See, Shi'ism is wrong'. That's why I usually don't respond to these kinds of posts. 

That's why you notice that our Imams((عليه السلام)) were approached constantly with similar questions. They have literally been answered multiple times by each Imam. If someone doesn't want to read the answers and would rather take their religion from a youtube video, that's up to them. I wouldn't advise it, though. 

THe issue of Taqiyya is the one most often brought up. I think this one deserves it's own thread, if the OP would want to continue the discussion. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Abu Hadi

[ShiaMan14]

I dont believe this brother is a shia at all. This was click-bait.

I would request @Mahdavist or @Abu Hadi to remove the link to the video. We have the summary and here to discuss if @Baseer returns.

[Baseer]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:39 PM, Cool said:

Never ever blindly follow any religion or sect. Find the truth and accept it and be with the truthful ones,.this is what shiaism is. 

I'm just having a ton of doubts. I have problems with some sunni beliefs as well don't get me wrong.

[Baseer]

22 hours ago, pseudonym said:

Baseer,, please explain further why,,,,,  what is the core reason why you would consider leaving Shia Islam?

This video is just the tip of some points that make me consider leaving. I have lots of issues with both Sunni and Shia beliefs but overall I may be leaning towards the sunnis. here's some of my issues with Shiism:

• I can't find any authentic proofs of conterversial subjects such as the attack on fatima's house by Umar. It seems made up unless someone can prove it.
• I have seen "Ayatullahs" like Syed Shirazi (Not makarem) being accused of collecting funds from the UK and US to corrupt Shias and Islam. I would usually treat this like nothing and stop following such people but some of the top Ayatollahs and Scholars have regularly visited Shirazi and his family such as the Qazwini family who are very popular and known world-wide.
• Taqiyya and hiding beliefs from Sunnis makes no sense Islamically to me.

These are just some issues.

[Baseer]

18 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I have no doubt that @Baseer simply wants clicks to that video and channel.

It's ok brother. You do not have to waste your time trying to help me. If you don't think I'm genuine then its ok.

[Baseer]

1 hour ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I dont believe this brother is a shia at all. This was click-bait.

I would request @Mahdavist or @Abu Hadi to remove the link to the video. We have the summary and here to discuss if @Baseer returns.

Again lol. If I cannot find support here then I will leave. You can remove all the videos you want.

[Guest Psychological Warfare]

I hope that you understand, that  this Entitlement Attitude - Show me/prove to me or else.. is not a proper approach. Your salvation is your own responsibility as such you need to seek knowledge. Not make threats i will leave. If you were to leave how does this effect anyone else? 

https://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-wahid-khorasani

Now we don't do Taqlid in Fundamental of Faith. So, link is a guide for you to get some basic info and understand Faith before you worry about fiqh/islamic acts. As an intelligent person, this is the path you need to take, if you disregard it an waste time on enemy videos and spin in circles you have not utilized the intellect Allah(عزّ وجلّ) gave you and you will not have any argument on the day of judgement. 

[Muhammad A-H]

On 8/31/2021 at 4:08 PM, Baseer said:

This video is just the tip of some points that make me consider leaving. I have lots of issues with both Sunni and Shia beliefs but overall I may be leaning towards the sunnis. here's some of my issues with Shiism:

The video does not target the fundamentals of Shia Islam, and the points regarding why you should leave Shi'ism are refutable.

On 8/31/2021 at 4:08 PM, Baseer said:

I can't find any authentic proofs of conterversial subjects such as the attack on fatima's house by Umar. It seems made up unless someone can prove it.

It is not wajib to believe this.

On 8/31/2021 at 4:08 PM, Baseer said:

I have seen "Ayatullahs" like Syed Shirazi (Not makarem) being accused of collecting funds from the UK and US to corrupt Shias and Islam. I would usually treat this like nothing and stop following such people but some of the top Ayatollahs and Scholars have regularly visited Shirazi and his family such as the Qazwini family who are very popular and known world-wide.

What other Muslims do is irrelevant. What is relevant is the Quran and the ahadith.

On 8/31/2021 at 4:08 PM, Baseer said:

Taqiyya and hiding beliefs from Sunnis makes no sense Islamically to me.

The Sunnis have misinformed you of taqiyyah. Taqiyyah means lying in order to save one's own life or prevent harm from coming on to oneself. This is even supported in the Quran. Unnecessarily hiding beliefs from Sunnis has no basis.

I suggest you stop looking at these videos and start learning the actual fundamentals of the Shia aqidah and the actual rulings first. Sit down and discuss with a scholar if you want. If you disagree with Ithna Asheri Shia Aqidah, then take a look at Zaydi Shi'ism. Take a look at the event of Ghadir Khum and see whether the Prophet truly appointed Ali as his successor or not.

[ShiaMan14]

5 hours ago, Baseer said:

It's ok brother. You do not have to waste your time trying to help me. If you don't think I'm genuine then its ok.

 

5 hours ago, Baseer said:

Again lol. If I cannot find support here then I will leave. You can remove all the videos you want.

Interesting that you chose to answer the comments that didn't include a response to the video.

As for you leaving, 

2.257: Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.