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In the Name of God بسم الله

Sunnis & Shia BOTH wrong. Honest discussion?

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  • Advanced Member
4 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

Is this a serious question? Or is there a Typo?

if not can you elaborate why I shouldn’t trust the Quran……..?

Well imagine if you were not born Muslim. How do you work out Qur'an is trust worthy ?

I'm just testing your research. As you did say "test me"

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shias are proud to hail the Ahlul Bayt when it does not effect an ounce relationship with Allah. 

ذَٰلِكَ الَّذِي يُبَشِّرُ اللَّهُ عِبَادَهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ ۗ قُلْ لَا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَىٰ ۗ وَمَنْ يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةً نَزِدْ لَهُ فِيهَا حُسْنًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ {23}

[Shakir 42:23] That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful.
[Pickthal 42:23] This it is which Allah announceth unto His bondmen who believe and do good works. Say (O Muhammad, unto mankind): I ask of you no fee therefor, save lovingkindness among kinsfolk. And whoso scoreth a good deed We add unto its good for him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Responsive.
[Yusufali 42:23] That is (the Bounty) whereof Allah gives Glad Tidings to His Servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increase of good in respect thereof: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service).

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إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ {5}

[Shakir 1:5] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
[Pickthal 1:5] Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
[Yusufali 1:5] Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ {6}

[Shakir 1:6] Keep us on the right path.
[Pickthal 1:6] Show us the straight path,
[Yusufali 1:6] Show us the straight way,

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ {7}

[Shakir 1:7] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
[Pickthal 1:7] The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
[Yusufali 1:7] The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

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Your Conjecture ignores - Allah(عزّ وجلّ) Command to follow them, for your salvation. If you pray, you do say (1:5-7) it with out understanding what you are reciting. 

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17 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

m. I think he would be disappointed to know what many Muslims are doing to honor him as it goes against allahs wish to self harm.

 

A Disturbing Innovation
"Become an ornament for us, do not be a disgrace for us."
~ Imam al-Sadiq (a) ~
"Look at the people of the Prophet's family. Adhere to their direction. Follow their footsteps because they would never let you out of guidance, and never throw you into destruction. If they sit down, you sit down, and if they rise up you rise up. Do not go ahead of them, as you would thereby go astray and go not lag behind them as you would thereby be ruined."
~ Imam Ali (a) ~

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Although these blood shedding rituals are historically not a part of Shia Islam, for many Shia Muslims they have become a central part of their religious practice. Some Shias hold these rituals in very high regard and reckon them to be amongst the most holy acts of worship.

The zealous advocates of the blood rituals put a huge emphasis on these acts and employ a lot of resources to promote their practice. Some of them can be quite hostile to those Shia who do not hold the these practices in such high esteem or consider the rituals to be detrimental to the image of Shia Muslims.

 

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We cannot say that Islam directly prohibits these rituals (as long as they are done without causing significant harm such as the loss of a limb, a bodily organ or a function of the body) because the rituals did not exist when the teachings of Islam were being revealed. Therefore the Quran and Sunnah do not address the permissibility of Tatbir and Zanjeer directly.

 

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According to the principles of Islamic jurisprudence, everything is considered permissible unless there is direct evidence for its prohibition. Thus the Shia scholars have not prohibited the blood shedding rituals on their own since the Quran and Sunnah do not speak about these actions. However the vast majority of contemporary Shia scholars have ruled that the rituals are forbidden on the condition that their performance would lead to the violation of other established Islamic principles (e.g. the prohibition of defaming the Shia faith).

 

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It was Never Practiced or Recommended by the Ahlulbayt (a)

Blood mourning rituals were never practiced by the founders and teachers of Shia Islam. There is not a single shred of evidence that the latter Imams (a) performed blood rituals. The modern day proponents of these damaging rituals shy away from mentioning this glaring fact.........................A Shi’i who keeps away from blood rituals is closer in action to the Ahlulbayt (a) than one who performs them.

 The Imams (a) put a great deal of emphasis on mourning for Imam Hussain (a) and never made use of blood shedding even though it was available to them. 3, Blood shedding rituals almost always violate certain Islamic principles and these other novelties don’t.

The lack of evidence in this case is sufficient to justify the proposition that the Imams (a) did not perform those rituals

 

 

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The History of Blood Mourning Ceremonies

For about a millennium after the tragedy of Karbala, the Shia did not practice blood shedding when mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (a) or any of the Ahlulbayt (a). Instead they mourned in a traditional and more natural manner, which included the methods used by the Imams (a) and their families. However this changed when blood rituals were introduced into the mourning gatherings of the Shia.

Historians have shown that blood rituals were foreign cultural practices that were introduced to certain elements of the Shia community relatively recently in the history of the religion.

Quoting Professor Werner Ende in “The Flagellations of Muharram
and the Shi’ite ‘Ulama’”
:

Muhammad Mahdi al-Qazwini, however, in a work finished in the month of Ramadan 1345 H (March 1927), claims that the use of iron, i.e. of chains and swords for flagellation, was initiated “about a century ago” by people not well versed in the rules of the shari `a.

Source.

Below is an excerpt from the book “A Hidden Hand” which describes how these cultural practices entered the Shia community via external sources.

This practice was first seen amongst the Turkish Iraqis, Sufis, and Western Iranian Kurds.”4 A report by English sources covering Ashura in Najaf in the year 1919 shows that 100 Turkish Shias performed blood matam that year.5

Memories of Sayyid Muhammad Bahr al-Ulum support this claim as well: “When I was in Najaf around 50-60 years ago there were only a fewTurkish mourning groups. They would come to Sayyid Bahr al-Ulum’s house on the days of mourning and with his permission they would recite emotional poems about Imam Hussayn (a). Some of them would slightly injure themselves while listening to the poems in order to try to feel what Imam Hussayn felt.

There has been no recollection by elder people of Najaf and Karbala saying that there were these processions before the middle of the nineteenth century. These processions where first performed by Turkish visitors from the Qizilbash Tribe. When they would perform a ziyarat to Imam Hussayn (a) they would strike their heads with special swords.4

The author goes on to state that the Qizilbash, an extreme ghulat Turkish sect, seemingly introduced blood rituals to Imami Shias. He then points out that the Qizilbash took their flagellation rituals from some Christians. Therefore the Shia blood rituals most probably have a Christian origin.

 

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There is nothing else in the whole of existence, which gives the Shias such a bad reputation as these rituals do. Millions of dollars have been spent by the enemies of Shi’ism (and Islam as a whole) to ruin its image and to spread lies about it. However all those efforts are eclipsed by these unnatural actions that some Shias perform. It is not only non-Shias who are repulsed and disturbed by these rituals, many Shias are also extremely repulsed.

 

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Why Must Children be Involved?

Unfortunately there are some Shia clerics who do not discourage Tatbir on children, rather they consider it to be recommended.

The following question was sent to the office of Ayatullah Sadiq Shirazi:

What is the ruling on doing tatbir on children in a country where it is not prohibited?

The response:

Tatbeer is mustahib but in case of minor it is mustahib to seek permission from his wali (Shariah Guardian).

The evidence.

Ayatullah Sadiq Shirazi has said about Tatbir: “Those who forbid it are from the like of Yazid and are imams of kufr”. This has been verified by his office, and his representative said:

As for those who argue against tatbir, they are mistaken and are ill-informed. However, those who proactively prevent or forbid tatbir, then this is deemed a major sin.

The statement you quoted of Ayatollah Sadiq Shirazi is correct and it can be relied upon.

Many great Shia scholars have disagreed with that sort of opinion.

 

 

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The Obligation of Giving Islam a Good Image

Imam Al-Sadiq (a): “You must never do anything that may embarrass us. A small boy causes embarrassment to his father because of his misdeeds. Be the beauty for those to whom you are devoted and do not be an embarrassment to them. Pray along with their tribes, visit their people in ill health, attend their funerals and do not allow anyone exceed you in good deeds. You have all the more reason to exceed others in good deeds.”

Al-Kafi.

Imam Al-Hadi (a): “Allah is beautiful and He loves beauty and prettification, and He hates misery and miserable ones. Allah the Almighty likes, when He gives a blessing to His slave, to see the effects of that blessing appear on him.” He was asked, “How is that?” He said, “To clean his dress, make his smell good, order his house, and sweep the yard. Even a lamp lit before sunset takes poverty away and increases livelihood.”

“Al-Amali”, Sheikh al-Mufid.

Imam Al-Sadiq (a): “My followers, be an ornament for us, and do not be a shame on us; tell people good words; guard your tongues and keep them back from idle talk and evil words.”

“Living the Right Way”, Ayatullah Jawad Tehrai.

 

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Prophet Muhammad (s): Everybody who chooses a dress, must keep it clean.

Prophet Muhammad (s): “The dossier of the man who abstains from spitting and blowing his nose in the masjid, will be in his right hand on the Day of judgment.”

Prophet Muhammad (s): “Islam is immaculate, so you should make efforts for cleanliness because only the clean ones would enter Paradise.”

 

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It Repels Potential Reverts

Shi’i revert:

I will tell you why I am against it (although I don’t disrespect people), BECAUSE IT PREVENTED ME FROM BECOMING SHIA FOR MANY MANY YEARS.

It was only until I found out that some of the greatest scholars of Shia Islam have condemed it

 Repulsive techniques were never used by the Prophets (s) and Imams (a) to invite people to the religion of God. Instead of using such futile and damaging means, we must put effort into inviting people towards the religion using the most appealing and effective means. In a materialistic and increasingly secular world, few people set out to study a religion and we cannot expect them to do so after viewing scenes that repulse them. 

 

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Imam Al-Sadiq (a) speaks about having a wise and diplomatic approach when dealing with others; from Shaykh Sadooq’s book on Aqeedah:

Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq was told: 0 son of the Messenger of Allah, verily we see in the mosque one who openly abuses your enemies, calling out their names. And he said: May Allah curse him! Why does he refer to us? He, Who is Exalted above all, says: “Revile not those who invoke (deities) other than Allah, lest wrongfully they revile Allah through ignorance” [6, 108] And Imam Ja’far in explaining this verse has said: So do not revile them, lest they revile your ‘Ali. And he also said: He who reviles the friend (wali) of Allah (i.e. All) has reviled Allah. And the Prophet said: He who reviles thee, 0 ‘Ali, has verily reviled me; and he, who reviles me, has verily reviled Allah.

Imam Ja’far said: Verily, I hear a man abusing me in the mosque; and I hide myself behind a pillar so that he may not see me. And he (Imam Ja’far) said: Mix with the people (enemies) outwardly, but oppose them inwardly, so long as the Amirate (imratun) is a matter of opinion. And he also said: Verily diplomacy (arri’a’) with a true believer is a form of shirk (polytheism); but with a hypocrite (munafiq) in his own house, it is worship. And he also said: He who prays with them (hypocrites) standing in the first row, it is as though he prayed with the Prophet in the first row. And he also said: Visit their sick and attend their funerals and pray in their mosques. And he also said: (You should) become an ornament for us, and not a disgrace. And he said: May Allah have mercy on a person who inculcates friendship towards us among men, and does not provoke ill-will among them.

 

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Lady Zainab (a) Hitting Her Head

A statement on Ayatullah Lankarani’s website on this narration:

We did not discover an authentic narration regarding the mentioned incident. In fact, Muhaddeth al-Qummi (Sheikh Abbass al-Qummi, compiler of Mafatih Al-Jinan) refuted/rejected it in the book ‘Muntaha al-Amaal’ whereby he said: “This narration, although Allamah Majlisi transmitted it in Bihar al-Anwaar, however, the source of his transmission is the two books of Muntakhab al-Turayhi and Nur al-ayn. The status of these two books is clear to the people of hadith (i.e. those knowledgeable in the science of hadiths).” Based on the aforementioned, there is no sanad (chain of transmission) for this narration that can be relied on.

Source.

It must be noted that Ayatullah Lankarani was one of the highest ranking scholars of the modern age and Shaykh Abbas al-Qummi is regarded as one of the greatest Shia scholars in history. He is also an expert on the history of Ashura and its aftermath.

http://tatbir.org

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On 8/27/2021 at 3:26 PM, Cool said:

 

Your study of Islam seems not sufficient. 

If you don't recognize Ali (عليه السلام) & Imams from his progeny, as your Imam, then you will not go to heaven at least. 


Allah has said do not associate ANYBODY with him. Not even the prophets

so i don’t know how YOU recognize Imam Ali but I hope you know you DONT need him to get to heaven.

 

I am very sorry to say. But someone who talks like this is just as blind as a Christian who says things about prophet ISSA. Claiming that of which they do not know. Claiming things he said which he didn’t.
 

You are revolving your whole religion over the Imam when he is not mentioned 1 time in the Quran. And trying to be respectful here, HE is important figure. BUT he is NOT important for my relationship with Allah, or to get to heaven.  SMH
 

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On 8/27/2021 at 3:04 PM, Mahdavist said:

By abandoning narrations of the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) you have essentially abandoned the sunnah. 

What narration do I need to follow for you to say that I have abandoned the Sunnah Lol. I don’t get it. 

As a Shia what are you doing differently from a sunni that will get you to heaven?

show me why I need to mourn Imam Hussein’s death

or why I need to call Imam Ali in my athan 

And I WILL DO IT. 
 

But according to the Quran all this is unnecessary. 

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On 8/27/2021 at 3:26 PM, Cool said:

What!!!! This is the hadith of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), not the hadith of an ordinary man. 

The one whom every Muslim is commanded to obey, has said this and it is mentioned in both sunni & shi'i books.

 

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِمْ 

17:71

فَكَيْفَ إِذَا جِئْنَا مِن كُلِّ أمَّةٍ بِشَهِيدٍ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ عَلَى هَـؤُلاء شَهِيدًا

4:41

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ مِن كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا ثُمَّ لاَ يُؤْذَنُ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ وَلاَ هُمْ يُسْتَعْتَبُونَ

16:84

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْهِم مِّنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ شَهِيدًا عَلَى هَـؤُلاء وَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ تِبْيَانًا لِّكُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ

16:89

Your study of Islam seems not sufficient. 

If you don't recognize Ali (عليه السلام) & Imams from his progeny, as your Imam, then you will not go to heaven at least. 

I need to recognize Muhammad as the final messenger of Allah.
And I hope on that we can both agree you cannot go to heaven without. 
 

everhthing else is man made traditions. 
 

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On 8/27/2021 at 3:31 PM, Ali bin Hussein said:

Well imagine if you were not born Muslim. How do you work out Qur'an is trust worthy ?

I'm just testing your research. As you did say "test me"

The Quran itself Is perfect. No errors, no contradictions, no confusions. 
It corrects where the Bible and Torah have been corrupted and puts an end to the abrahamic religion confusion. 
 

The laws in the Quran are sometimes debatable on what is really meant. And that could be explained by many scholars to decide what is being said. 
but the fundamentals are clear. 
 

worship Allah and him alone. 
 

I trust it because it is a book of science, no man or human could have spoke these words in perfection with no error or guessed the things the Quran knows.

Furthermore, if you read is from a logical view. You will see it debunks all Shia and Sunni beliefs and will make you a better Muslim. Understand what you need to do as a Muslim. 
 

worship ALLAH and him alone. Think of him only. Everything we do today is so tradition made and it’s sickening.  

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On 8/27/2021 at 4:51 PM, Guest Psychological Warfare said:
 

 

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Your Conjecture ignores - Allah(عزّ وجلّ) Command to follow them, for your salvation. If you pray, you do say (1:5-7) it with out understanding what you are reciting. 

SubhanAllah I’m a so confused. 

 

You have showed me 5 verses, and I don’t see on of them showing anything about the imams or his family besides that one translation that literally says family. But anyway. The verse itself and the chapter has nothing to do with the family of the prophet  

 

What if allahs command am I not following?? I can show you over 500 verses of commands to worship Allah alone. And you are showing me a verse that ONLY YOU think is regarding to the imam? When Allah never even spoke of them or mentioned them once. And I wish they were mentioned in the Quran to be honest so that way they would have cleared up a lot of misunderstandings 


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if you want to show any verses I will show this in the same chapter. Many Shias proudly say Imam Ali and Hussein is their protector.

42:6

As for those who take other protectors besides Him, Allah is Watchful over them. And you ˹O Prophet˺ are not a keeper over them.

 

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On 8/28/2021 at 5:54 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

A Disturbing Innovation
"Become an ornament for us, do not be a disgrace for us."
~ Imam al-Sadiq (a) ~
"Look at the people of the Prophet's family. Adhere to their direction. Follow their footsteps because they would never let you out of guidance, and never throw you into destruction. If they sit down, you sit down, and if they rise up you rise up. Do not go ahead of them, as you would thereby go astray and go not lag behind them as you would thereby be ruined."
~ Imam Ali (a) ~

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://tatbir.org

Not one thing mentioned here is important to Islam and submission to Allah. 
 

anyways thanks…. But none of this is important to me. 
 

You are free to do what you need to do but I am just stating a fact that it is NOT needed to even mourn the death of Imam Hussein at all. And you can still go to jannah… 

 

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I will not be replying anymore. 
 
I have read some things by fellow Muslims on this site, and reality slapped me. I forgot how disgusting human beings can be to one another. 
 

god bless all the Muslims who TRULLY want to be close to Allah, who want peace, who want to be one UMMAH. 
 

and if you don’t fall in that category, only YOU and Allah knows what’s in your heart. I can no longer talk with so many unpure hearts. 
Whether you call yourself Sunni or Shia. 
 

I stand by case that if you do you are still uneducated. Maybe if you understand what really matters and what doesn’t then that could be a start…

all the companions of the prophet, and his family are important. But they do not Matter. Nor do they matter to Allah Any different than to YOU and I 

They will be judged for their sins and their good just like us. 
 

ALLAH DOES NOT NEED US. WE NEED HIM !!!

You guys spend countless hours and days speaking bad about each other rather than talking about what matters. 
 

Instead of, 

“who do you think lead Islam after the prophet died?”

say 

“where should we build our next mosque?”

instead of, 

“You will not go to jannah if you don’t follow this (guy)”

say 

“Let’s go feed the poor”

 

Allah guide the ummah to care of what’s really important. Not waste our time on things that we have no control of. Ameen

 

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2 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

What narration do I need to follow for you to say that I have abandoned the Sunnah Lol. I don’t get it. 

You're missing the point. The sunnah has reached us through hadith. How can you claim to follow the words and actions of the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) if you're not even aware of what he said and did? 

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Posted (edited)

According to the Quran, it is necessary to obey the Prophet. The Prophet said to follow the Ahl ul-Bayt, so we follow the Ahl ul-Bayt as well. The Ahl us-Sunnah do not believe in the imamat of the Ahl ul-Bayt (Ali, Hasan, Husain and the other A'immah (AS)) and instead, they follow their narrations regarding the Sunnah of the Prophet.

These differences are what labels a Muslim a Shia or a Sunni. We, the Muslim Ummah, did not decide one day to aimlessly separate the Muslims into sects. Sects are created due to differing and conflicting opinions and beliefs, each of which have a basis in the Quran and ahadith.

It is obligatory on a Muslim to refer to the ahadith so that he may obey the Prophet. Now, as to which of the ahadith are authentic or not and which of the ahadith contain the true teachings of the Prophet is a matter of dispute among scholars of all sects.

What is clear, however, is that those who solely follow the Quran and do not follow the ahadith or the teachings of the Prophet at all are not following the complete religion of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and will be questioned on the Day of Judgement for why they did not obey the teachings of the Prophet.

Edited by Muhammad Al-Hurr
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2 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

show me why I need to mourn Imam Hussein’s death

or why I need to call Imam Ali in my athan 

You do not need to mourn the death of Imam Hussein. The shahada "Ali'un waliyuAllah" is not a part of the athan.

 

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Allah has said do not associate ANYBODY with him. Not even the prophets

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ {55}

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
[Pickthal 5:55] Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).
[Yusufali 5:55] Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

 

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ ۖ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا {59}

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.
[Pickthal 4:59] O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end.
[Yusufali 4:59] O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

-----

You will classify the above two Directives as Association/worship. This type of mis representation was/is used to win wars/take over other tribes, Political/Social/Economic reasons for these willful injustice to the religion of Allah(عزّ وجلّ). 

 

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3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

Allah has said do not associate ANYBODY with him. Not even the prophets

so i don’t know how YOU recognize Imam Ali but I hope you know you DONT need him to get to heaven.

Belief in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) becomes perfected when we accept all of His commands. So your saying that you don't "need" a rope which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has provided for you to get closer to Him, is totally absurd. 

لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

2:256

It is very important for us to know the "taghut" at very first place. Otherwise how can one reject the taghut if he don't recognize it? Similarly when you reject the taghut, you have to accept the truth & the truthful ones. You have to submit to those whom God Almighty has commanded you to submit. 

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

You are revolving your whole religion over the Imam when he is not mentioned 1 time in the Quran.

Imamate is mentioned in Quran as divine covenant which will never reach to the unjust. 

And Imamate is the thing after which religion become perfected by God Almighty. You seems to not even ponder over the referred verses. How can one help you!!!

يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ ۖ وَإِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ النَّاسِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْكَافِرِينَ {67}

[Shakir 5:67] O Messenger! deliver what bas been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.

Again what has been delivered after thee revelation of this verse? Would you not try to find it out?

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

BUT he is NOT important for my relationship with Allah, or to get to heaven.  SMH

We can just wait to see that. So just wait and we are waiting too.

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On 8/25/2021 at 1:01 PM, Realone777 said:

it is literally haram to call yourself a Sunni or a Shia or anything other than a MUSLIM. 

The Quran addresses Abraham being from the Shia of Noah. So if a person was to ask him what does follow and what he believes, he would say “shiatu Nuh” and he would called himself a “Shia” out of technical reasons the same way Sunni’s call themselves “Sunni” out of technical reasons and like wise with the Shia. The original followers of Jesus were called “Nazoreans” after Jesus the Nazarene, these examples are given to us to indicate to us which path is on the truth and we can see that all the true paths were named after their leader, Shia islam was the first sect to be called named after its leader. Thus your argument is invalid. 

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11 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

You're missing the point. The sunnah has reached us through hadith. How can you claim to follow the words and actions of the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) if you're not even aware of what he said and did? 

The sunnah has reached us !!! Okay you are correct. 
 

but what Sunni and Shia are fighting/arguing/debating/ about has nothing to do with the sunnah. 
 

that’s my point 

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11 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

According to the Quran, it is necessary to obey the Prophet. The Prophet said to follow the Ahl ul-Bayt, so we follow the Ahl ul-Bayt as well. The Ahl us-Sunnah do not believe in the imamat of the Ahl ul-Bayt (Ali, Hasan, Husain and the other A'immah (AS)) and instead, they follow their narrations regarding the Sunnah of the Prophet.

These differences are what labels a Muslim a Shia or a Sunni. We, the Muslim Ummah, did not decide one day to aimlessly separate the Muslims into sects. Sects are created due to differing and conflicting opinions and beliefs, each of which have a basis in the Quran and ahadith.

It is obligatory on a Muslim to refer to the ahadith so that he may obey the Prophet. Now, as to which of the ahadith are authentic or not and which of the ahadith contain the true teachings of the Prophet is a matter of dispute among scholars of all sects.

What is clear, however, is that those who solely follow the Quran and do not follow the ahadith or the teachings of the Prophet at all are not following the complete religion of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and will be questioned on the Day of Judgement for why they did not obey the teachings of the Prophet.

Ok thank you for being clear on your case. 
but can you explain to me as a Muslim what I am doing that is not following the prophets commands? 
 

the Quran teaches the things you need to do to become a SOLID Muslim, and make it to heaven. 
 

what the prophet teaches are ways we should live to live a simpler and more easy life. 
 

^^ but what of these hadiths are Sunnis and Shias fighting about? 
should we eat at 9:30 or 9:35?

is temporary marriage permissible?

etc etc etc 

bottom line, all these are debatable till the end of time. Humans all think differently. I will use my own logic to figure out what is HARAM AND HALAL

 

but that does not make someone a perfect Muslim. 
 

my point is all that stuff debated should not effect whether you call yourself a Sunni or Shia, because humans are weak. And will take things literal. People have went to the EXTREME to label themselves. 
 

and to me, thAts more haram and BLIND as a person who doesn’t follow all the hadiths but still can PLEASE Allah. 
 

 

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11 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

You do not need to mourn the death of Imam Hussein. The shahada "Ali'un waliyuAllah" is not a part of the athan.

 

Thank you. 
 

but what many don’t realize, that following these traditions have corrupted many minds. It has corrupted

Sunnis who view Shias differently

shias who go overboard with mourning his death 

outside people who misunderstood Islam because of it 

hence, my conclusion, since you also agree you don’t need to do it, that this is all pointless, and unimportant to Allah, and in fact is haram because it corrupts the message of Allah. 
 

My literal bottom point of what I mean what these things are all pointless for us…

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11 hours ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

Before you tell someone to learn something, tell me why I need to learn it? 
I can still live my life without this information and go to heaven inshallah. 

if I’m wrong please tell me why. Otherwise no thanks. I know enough. Imam Hussein was a soldier of Allah, died for Islam. Curse anyone who opposes him, or curses him, and curse anyone who believes 80% of Muslims hate him. 
 

^^^ this is all LOGIC common sense. 
no need to construct a whole sect/religion out of it 

 

don’t speak to me about the “Muslims” who went against him. 
Allah will judge them

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10 hours ago, Cool said:

Belief in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) becomes perfected when we accept all of His commands. So your saying that you don't "need" a rope which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has provided for you to get closer to Him, is totally absurd. 

لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

2:256

It is very important for us to know the "taghut" at very first place. Otherwise how can one reject the taghut if he don't recognize it? Similarly when you reject the taghut, you have to accept the truth & the truthful ones. You have to submit to those whom God Almighty has commanded you to submit. 

Imamate is mentioned in Quran as divine covenant which will never reach to the unjust. 

And Imamate is the thing after which religion become perfected by God Almighty. You seems to not even ponder over the referred verses. How can one help you!!!

يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ ۖ وَإِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ النَّاسِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْكَافِرِينَ {67}

[Shakir 5:67] O Messenger! deliver what bas been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.

Again what has been delivered after thee revelation of this verse? Would you not try to find it out?

We can just wait to see that. So just wait and we are waiting too.

Brother, you have quoted one of two verses that in your MIND have been interpreted this way! 
 

allah has simply explained 1000 times how to connect with him. 
 

I have never been told I need a rope to connect to Allah, because Allah has said do no associate anybody with him. So….. your word or Allahs word?

his is more clear. Yours is not. Yours is based on BELIEF. 

I have read another post where someone was asking how to spiritually reach and talk with the 12 imams!!!!!

UNBELIEVABLE. I had no idea some Shias thought this. But it’s UNDERSTANDABLE 

I just ask Allah to help some people see the light because a lot of this is Haram. 
 

and I know Shias try really hard to please Allah but this is sad to see. 
 

as well as the Sunnis who have took the companions as imams, or the Christians who have took Jesus as god, or people who took ghandi as a messenger of god, or Muhammad Elijah. 
 

UNDERSTANDABLE, because humans are SHEEP and follow any words their fathers have said. 
 

I go against many things my own father says, and I have taught him. And he appreciates it because HUMANS are weak minded. 

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2 hours ago, Guest Guest guest said:

The Quran addresses Abraham being from the Shia of Noah. So if a person was to ask him what does follow and what he believes, he would say “shiatu Nuh” and he would called himself a “Shia” out of technical reasons the same way Sunni’s call themselves “Sunni” out of technical reasons and like wise with the Shia. The original followers of Jesus were called “Nazoreans” after Jesus the Nazarene, these examples are given to us to indicate to us which path is on the truth and we can see that all the true paths were named after their leader, Shia islam was the first sect to be called named after its leader. Thus your argument is invalid. 

Don’t be a sheep, a follower of a Human being. 
 

I can show you 20 verses where all the prophets were labeled a MUSLIM. 

Because to be a submitter to Allah that’s ALL you are. 
 

If you want to use the term that way, then yes people come from lineages. 
I am SHIAT Muhammad. I do not claim any other leader. I respect all the family of Muhammad for what they done. But it doesn’t really matter to please Allah. 
 

anyways goodbye brother 

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3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

allah has simply explained 1000 times how to connect with him. 

Ok, tell me one time how to "connect" with Him?

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

Brother, you have quoted one of two verses that in your MIND have been interpreted this way! 

What I have interpreted? please highlight.

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

have never been told I need a rope to connect to Allah,

Means you haven't read the Quran!

وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا ۚۚ

3;103) And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

because Allah has said do no associate anybody with him. So….. your word or Allahs word?

Verse 3:103, 2:256 are neither written by me nor are they revealed by me. 

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

just ask Allah to help some people see the light because a lot of this is Haram. 

Haram is the ignorance, so you need to light up your thoughts with the Quran first of all, then I would advise you the second step. At the moment you are displaying ignorance and pretending to be a person who thoroughly researched the two sects. 

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

because humans are SHEEP

Read Quran and you will know which type of humans are like cattles oe even worse. So if you are sheep, I have no problem with you except that I would advise you to struggle and try to be a human.

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9 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

but can you explain to me as a Muslim what I am doing that is not following the prophets commands? 
 

the Quran teaches the things you need to do to become a SOLID Muslim, and make it to heaven. 

The Quran does teach many things and it is a guidance for mankind. However, without the teachings of the Prophet, you will not understand the complete image of Islam. How would you know how to pray? How would you know all of your obligations from Allah? Therefore, learning the teachings of the Prophet is obligatory. The only way we can learn the teachings of the Prophet are from the narrations and ahadith. 

9 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

^^ but what of these hadiths are Sunnis and Shias fighting about? 
should we eat at 9:30 or 9:35?

is temporary marriage permissible?

etc etc etc 

bottom line, all these are debatable till the end of time. Humans all think differently. I will use my own logic to figure out what is HARAM AND HALAL

There are disagreements due to different scholars differing in opinions regarding which ahadith are authentic and contain reliable information.

You can only use your logic to determine whether something is haram or halal to a certain extent (i.e., it is obviously forbidden to steal). Following what you assume is the truth without sufficient evidence is actually haram: 

And they have thereof no knowledge. They follow not except assumption, and indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all. [53:28]

9 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

my point is all that stuff debated should not effect whether you call yourself a Sunni or Shia, because humans are weak. And will take things literal. People have went to the EXTREME to label themselves.

As long as a person believes in one god Allah, believes that Muhammad is His messenger, believes in the Day of Judgement and the Hereafter, and follows the teachings and commands of the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), then that person will make it to heaven.

I agree that no one should go to the extremes.

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9 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

but what many don’t realize, that following these traditions have corrupted many minds. It has corrupted

Sunnis who view Shias differently

shias who go overboard with mourning his death 

outside people who misunderstood Islam because of it 

Shias should only follow the traditions of the Prophet and the A'immah and not invent new things, such as saying "Aliyun WaliyulAllah" in athan or doing tatbir.

 

9 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

hence, my conclusion, since you also agree you don’t need to do it, that this is all pointless, and unimportant to Allah, and in fact is haram because it corrupts the message of Allah.

I would not say mourning for Hussein (عليه السلام) is pointless. It is important to commemorate such events and learn messages from them, such as standing up against oppression even if you lose your own life as a result. As long as the events that took place are commemorated decently then it is perfectly fine and it doesn't corrupt the message of Allah. I agree, however, that false traditions that were not practiced by the A'immah (عليه السلام) or the Prophet should be abolished.

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7 hours ago, Cool said:

Ok, tell me one time how to "connect" with Him?

By praying…

 

7 hours ago, Cool said:

3;103) And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves

SubhanAllah I don’t know why you believe this ‘rope’ is referring to the imams. Actually I do know why but I hope Allah it clears it up for you. Because if you go to two more verses down he specifically talks about the people who claim sects. And he doesn’t say anything good about them. 

 

7 hours ago, Cool said:

Haram is the ignorance, so you need to light up your thoughts with the Quran first of all, then I would advise you the second step. At the moment you are displaying ignorance and pretending to be a person who thoroughly researched the two sects. 

3:105 makes my whole point

I DONT CARE about the 2 or 20 different sects. 
 

my whole point was that any person claiming any sect needs to see Islam and the Quran from a different view. Not the view you WANT to believe

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1 hour ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

The Quran does teach many things and it is a guidance for mankind. However, without the teachings of the Prophet, you will not understand the complete image of Islam. How would you know how to pray? How would you know all of your obligations from Allah? Therefore, learning the teachings of the Prophet is obligatory. The only way we can learn the teachings of the Prophet are from the narrations and ahadith. 

Ok so enlighten me.  
I believe I am praying fine I speak to Allah and read my Quran. I don’t think Allah cares if hands are by the side or crossed. Also, if you are saying Ali’s name then I think those Shias are wrong. 
 

- what other obligations are you talking about? 
every person is claiming I need the hadiths to follow Allah, I will follow the imams, to follow the prophet, to follow Allah. 
 

No one has answered I asked 10 times, what obligations are you talking about?

what am I ‘missing’ as a Muslim that you Shias do?

if it has anything with praying or calling out to the imams please save it I don’t find that necessary at all. Anything else we can debate about?

 

1 hour ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

ere are disagreements due to different scholars differing in opinions regarding which ahadith are authentic and contain reliable information.

You can only use your logic to determine whether something is haram or halal to a certain extent (i.e., it is obviously forbidden to steal). Following what you assume is the truth without sufficient evidence is actually haram: 

And they have thereof no knowledge. They follow not except assumption, and indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all. [53:28

Well said, 100% agreed

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1 hour ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

Shias should only follow the traditions of the Prophet and the A'immah and not invent new things, such as saying "Aliyun WaliyulAllah" in athan or doing tatbir.

 

I would not say mourning for Hussein (عليه السلام) is pointless. It is important to commemorate such events and learn messages from them, such as standing up against oppression even if you lose your own life as a result. As long as the events that took place are commemorated decently then it is perfectly fine and it doesn't corrupt the message of Allah. I agree, however, that false traditions that were not practiced by the A'immah (عليه السلام) or the Prophet should be abolished.

I only say it’s pointless because 

A) you can see where some Shias have extremed it which gives Islam a bad name, which devalues Islam which I’m pretty sure falls under corrupt message of Allah 

B) you can’t see, but you can guess how far the future children will take it

C) it does nothing for Allah 

D) personally, I believe Allah and Imam Hussein would be disappointed 

-

the story of Imam Hussein is beautiful, and it is more beautiful that he is the prophets grandson. But he didn’t do what he did for you and me, he did it for his own gain. His own stars from Allah. His own seat in paradise. To continue the spread of Islam. 

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Posted (edited)
Quote

I believe I am praying fine I speak to Allah and read my Quran. I don’t think Allah cares if hands are by the side or crossed. Also, if you are saying Ali’s name then I think those Shias are wrong. 
 

So how do you know what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) thinks and cares? You should remind silent if you don't know, because you could fall easily to the following verse:

And who is more unjust than he who invents a lie about Allah ? Those will be presented before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord." Unquestionably, the curse of Allah is upon the wrongdoers.

As for example the praying, we have more proof that we are correct and you are wrong. First the reasoning tell us that if Prophet Muhammad (saws) is introducing the prayer to the Muslims, then he also must defined it to us. Second, majority of the Muslims in the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws) observed the ritual actions in prayer and this continued till this day. Third we have historical account and narrations about the existence of these rituals in prayer.

What is the proof that as for the praying we don't need to do any ritual act and you can do it freely? If the Prophet (saws) did salat in ritualistic way and so did all the Muslims, how did you come to conclusion that that is not necessary at all.

One of the reason to stick to Sunnah of the Prophet, is exactly so that we don't fall to the innovations and our desires to follow what we think is right.

[We said], "O David, indeed We have made you a successor upon the earth, so judge between the people in truth and do not follow [your own] desire, as it will lead you astray from the way of Allah." Indeed, those who go astray from the way of Allah will have a severe punishment for having forgotten the Day of Account.

Edited by Abu Nur
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1 hour ago, Guest Reply said:

By praying…

Did Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) taught you Himself how to pray?

1 hour ago, Guest Reply said:

SubhanAllah I don’t know why you believe this ‘rope’ is referring to the imams.

The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said I am leaving behind two weighty things, if you cling to them you will never go astray. One is the book of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) while the other is my Ahlul Bayt and these two will never separate from each other until they reach me to pond. 

So the "rope" is Quran in its samit & natiq form. (i.e., the Book & the speaking Quran, the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام))

1 hour ago, Guest Reply said:

Because if you go to two more verses down he specifically talks about the people who claim sects. And he doesn’t say anything good about them. 

Don't need to go down, this specific verse itself prohibits us to not divide into sects. 

This verse is a divine command which contain two commands specifically i.e.,

a) hold fast to the rope of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (you don't even know what the rope is)

b) do not divide. 

1 hour ago, Guest Reply said:

3:105 makes my whole point

I DONT CARE about the 2 or 20 different sects. 
 

my whole point was that any person claiming any sect needs to see Islam and the Quran from a different view. Not the view you WANT to believe

Cherry picking is haram here. You cannot just accept one verse and turndown the other. 

وَلْتَكُنْ مِنْكُمْ أُمَّةٌ يَدْعُونَ إِلَى الْخَيْرِ وَيَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ ۚ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ {104}

[Shakir 3:104] And from among you there should be a party who invite to good and enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong, and these it is that shall be successful.

This "ummah" is the Imams.

وَلَا تَكُونُوا كَالَّذِينَ تَفَرَّقُوا وَاخْتَلَفُوا مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ ۚ وَأُولَٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ {105}

[Shakir 3:105] And be not like those who became divided and disagreed after clear arguments had come to them, and these it is that shall have a grievous chastisement.

The "clear arguments" are the two weighty things i.e., Quran & Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). 

 

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3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

I believe I am praying fine I speak to Allah and read my Quran. I don’t think Allah cares if hands are by the side or crossed.

Is the way you pray based on authentic sources or your own assumptions?

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave commands and orders that are to be followed, even the small details. So if Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has decreed that we must pray in a certain way and that we must keep the hands on our side or crossed, then we must comply.

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

No one has answered I asked 10 times, what obligations are you talking about?

what am I ‘missing’ as a Muslim that you Shias do?

if it has anything with praying or calling out to the imams please save it I don’t find that necessary at all.

When I said 'obligations' I meant obligations from Allah in general. Like how to purify objects, what are the intrinsic impurities, what are the details of slaughtering animals, how to fast, how to perform wudu' and ghusl, what are the rulings regarding sex, etc.

Praying to anyone other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is forbidden. Furthermore, calling upon others other than Allah (including the A'immah) to grant us our needs is forbidden as well.

Asking the A'immah or the Prophet while they are alive to pray on our behalf to Allah to grant us our needs is definitely permissible, like in verse [4:64]. Whether or not you can ask them after their death is debatable. There are scholars who believe it is permissible. This concept is called tawassul.

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

But he didn’t do what he did for you and me, he did it for his own gain. His own stars from Allah. His own seat in paradise. To continue the spread of Islam.

Husain did it for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and for the other Muslims, not for himself. Ali ibn Abi Talib has said that the greatest worshipers are not those who worship Allah for the rewards nor due to fear of the hellfire but because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is worthy of worship.

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

C) it does nothing for Allah

Nothing we do does anything for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Our worship, fasting, piety, etc. do not benefit Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) at all.

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On 8/30/2021 at 7:02 AM, Guest Reply said:

You are free to do what you need to do but I am just stating a fact that it is NOT needed to even mourn the death of Imam Hussein at all. And you can still go to jannah… 

Salam It seems you have just focused on rituals on sects rather than understanding what is truth & what is falsehood which until you don't recognize what is truth & what is falshood . Therefore you won't go to Jannah whether you mourn for martyrdom of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) or not as representative of truth & blessed tree in holy Quranby army of cursed Yazid & his cursed allies as representatives of falshood & cursed tree in holy Quran

On 8/30/2021 at 9:26 AM, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

You do not need to mourn the death of Imam Hussein. The shahada "Ali'un waliyuAllah" is not a part of the athan.

 

totally agree with you.

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

the story of Imam Hussein is beautiful, and it is more beautiful that he is the prophets grandson. But he didn’t do what he did for you and me, he did it for his own gain. His own stars from Allah. His own seat in paradise. To continue the spread of Islam. 

He has done sacrifice for doing good & forbidding evil & returning Islam to it's original state of it for showing & providing way of finding truth & salvation for everyone & mentioning his sacrifice for Islam as a personal matter  is insulting to him , so consequently prophet Muhammd (pbu) which is equivalent to denying prophethood of prophet Muhammad (pbu) for salvation & guidance of everyone & decreasing his prophethood mission as something for "his gain  His own stars from Allah. His own seat in paradise. To continue the spread of Islam."

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

Ok so enlighten me.  
I believe I am praying fine I speak to Allah and read my Quran. I don’t think Allah cares if hands are by the side or crossed

people likewise cursed Muawiah & cursed Yazid hd been doing same action which their standing against truth & martyrying represetatives of truth as Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & his two sons has lead them  to hell so if anyone follows innovations & falshoo of cursed tree  likewise  crossing hands then he will ressurects with innovators from cursed tree which instead of being with Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) in paradise , consequently he will be with cursed tree especially cursed Yazid & cursed Muawiah forever in hell.

3 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

No one has answered I asked 10 times, what obligations are you talking about?

what am I ‘missing’ as a Muslim that you Shias do?

We are talking about which sect is following truth & which one is following falsehood & innovation which if you follow truth then you will be in paradise whether you mourn for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) or not then you will go to paradise but if you follow falshood even you pray whole of your life besideds Kaaba at best point of it between Rukn & Maqam ,so consequently , your deeds will be void & you will go to hell if you follow falshood of cursed tree. 

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4 hours ago, Guest Reply said:

I DONT CARE about the 2 or 20 different sects. 
 

my whole point was that any person claiming any sect needs to see Islam and the Quran from a different view. Not the view you WANT to believe

 

“Get to know the right, then you would know the people of right. Right Is not measured by its men, but men are measured by their right.”


 Ali Bin Abi Thalib

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/427902-get-to-know-the-right-then-you-would-know-the

Quote

Question: Is it correct to say that the truth is always with Imam ‘Ali (‘a)?

Umm Salamah and ‘Āishah (who were two wives of the Prophet (ṣ)) have narrated: We heard the Prophet (ṣ) saying: ‘Ali is with the truth and the truth is with ‘Ali, and they will never separate from one another until they reach me next to the Fountain of Kawthar.

This tradition has been narrated in many of the famous sourcebooks of the Ahl al-Sunnah. ‘Allāmah Amīnī has narrated this tradition in a very detailed manner in his third volume of Al-Ghadīr.[1] The famous commentator of the Ahl al-Sunnah, Fakhr Rāzī has also mentioned in his Tafsīr Kabīr (under the section on Surah Ḥamd) that: ‘Ali ibn Abī Ṭālib would recite his Bismillāh out loud and this has been narrated in a Tawātur manner. In turn, whoever follows Imam ‘Ali (‘a) in his religion has been guided to the truth and the reason behind this can be found in the words of the Prophet (ṣ) who said: Oh God, turn the truth upon the axis of ‘Ali’s being however he may turn.[2] Keep in mind that this tradition is saying that the truth turns upon the very existence of Imam ‘Ali (‘a).[3]

https://makarem.ir/main.aspx?typeinfo=23&lid=1&mid=325042&catid=24306&start=1&pageindex=0

http://ensani.ir/file/download/article/1544935746-10175-7.pdf

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9 hours ago, Abu Nur said:
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So how do you know what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) thinks and cares? You should remind silent if you don't know, because you could fall easily to the following verse

My proof is in the Quran. 
 

so you Sunnis and Shias remind me of the Christians who are so confused, bring extra information, and talk about things that don’t matter to Allah. 
 

It’s a psychological human thing, nothing I’m bashing about. We all do it. We all follow blindly. 
 

once again you wrote a whole post regarding the difference between Sunnis and Shias praying when we both do it the same way 95% pretty much the same Sunnis and Shias. But the pride leads us to wanting to be the ‘right’ one. Now if you truly care about Allah the Quran tells you how to connect with him. Praying. Now you already pray, and today as Muslims inshallah we all are praying correctly because this is the way we’ve been taught. To bow down and mention his name, and read his words. 
 

ALLAH is not trying to make life hard.
 

you are making it hard and complicated by us discussing these things. 
 

I am not inventing a lie, I could say the same for you to add things in the salat, or for another Shia who says you must add Imam Ali in the salat? See. My point. 
hunans will always make mistakes until the end of time. It’s YOUR duty for YOUR own life to figure out what makes sense and what doesn’t. 
 

and to me all of this is EXTRA. 

I am not doing anything wrong to displease Allah 

and there’s nothing you can add to make me please Allah more. 
 

if there is ^^^ then please tell me and I will consider doing it. But you couldn’t. 
because you will understand as you tell me that anything about the Ahlul Bayt is extra. As other Shias have already said in the earlier replies that it is not needed but it’s better. 
 

claimed it is better so you can connect with Allah easier. 
ASTAGHFERALLAH. 
I don’t want to disrespect any Muslim but personally I will consider that worse than the Christians who say you need nabi Issa to connect with god. 

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