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In the Name of God بسم الله

Can Sunni Islam exist without Caliphate ?

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  • Veteran Member
7 hours ago, Sumerian said:

That's basically it, summed up.

Ok so maybe in 300 AD there was a hujja in Peru, who came after a prophet himself born and sent to Peruvian people. 

That would make sense indeed. It's a bit weird though because given the geographical proximity between the lands of Bani Israil and Muhammad (sawas), and also the chronological revelations, we logically think they followed each other without interruption. 

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5 hours ago, realizm said:

Ok so maybe in 300 AD there was a hujja in Peru, who came after a prophet himself born and sent to Peruvian people. 

That would make sense indeed. It's a bit weird though because given the geographical proximity between the lands of Bani Israil and Muhammad (sawas), and also the chronological revelations, we logically think they followed each other without interruption. 

Who knows, for all we know there may have been a hujja in the Middle East, as some narrations indicate, in fact there may have been multiple. 

Like I said, there are narrations which mention a Prophet called Khalid, before our Prophet (saww), and such a narration has been narrated from both Sunni and Shi'a sources, albeit weak, but not impossible, and Shaykh Al-Saduq (rah) considered it true. And likewise, there could have been deputies of Isa (عليه السلام) living in the Middle East aswell, all the way until our Prophet (saww), and some say Abu Talib was a wasi himself. And a wasi's job can simply be as basic as holding on to the truth and protecting it, without making public tabligh, which is what our Imams (عليه السلام) did.

Like I said before, being apparent is not a condition of Prophethood or being a wasi, and I think you are confusing their roles with that of Messengers.

There is no reason to believe there was no Prophets between Isa (عليه السلام) and our Prophet (saww) even in the Middle East, what may be true however is that there was probably no sent Messenger between them, atleast to the Middle East.

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9 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Like I said before, being apparent is not a condition of Prophethood or being a wasi, and I think you are confusing their roles with that of Messengers.

I do not confuse them. In biblical logic, prophets of Bani Israel were very often associated with the king, be it in good terms or bad terms. As like Nabi Yusuf (عليه السلام), Daniel (عليه السلام), Yahia (عليه السلام) etc. That was a particularity amongst the Religion of Israelites. 

And the reason I emphasize the period between Isa and Muhammad (sawas) is because from what we know, Allah's order (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to go from an exclusive to an universal religion changed after nabi Isa. 

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11 hours ago, realizm said:

I do not confuse them. In biblical logic, prophets of Bani Israel were very often associated with the king, be it in good terms or bad terms. As like Nabi Yusuf (عليه السلام), Daniel (عليه السلام), Yahia (عليه السلام) etc. That was a particularity amongst the Religion of Israelites. 

That's something that may be claimed by Ahlul Kitab, but for us there is no condition for a Prophet to be apparent.

11 hours ago, realizm said:

And the reason I emphasize the period between Isa and Muhammad (sawas) is because from what we know, Allah's order (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to go from an exclusive to an universal religion changed after nabi Isa. 

That may also be true, but that does not mean there was no hujjah among those after Isa (عليه السلام) and his people. It is obvious he had a wasi, for example.

But it may also be true that there was a hujjah in another side of the world. 

Both are possibilities, and in any case, the belief that is that the Earth has to have a hujjah somewhere at any one time has been proven.

Edited by Sumerian
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15 hours ago, realizm said:

I do not confuse them. In biblical logic, prophets of Bani Israel were very often associated with the king, be it in good terms or bad terms. As like Nabi Yusuf (عليه السلام), Daniel (عليه السلام), Yahia (عليه السلام) etc. That was a particularity amongst the Religion of Israelites. 

And the reason I emphasize the period between Isa and Muhammad (sawas) is because from what we know, Allah's order (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to go from an exclusive to an universal religion changed after nabi Isa. 

Jews believe that there were about 1 million jewish prophets and most of them they do not know. What it means is that most of these prophets were non-apparent and only few of them were apparent.

Edited by Abu Nur
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