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In the Name of God بسم الله

About Sayed Ammar Nakshawani (continued)

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:salam:

I am usually not the one to criticize people publicly, but I wanted to add thoughts to the thread that was locked because I disagreed with the closing post and thus I didn't want to leave it as a conclusion.  

@Abu Hadi you said 

I think alot of people have a problem with Sayyid Ammar because he is Iraqi and a Sayyid, they expect him to do the Majalis in the traditional Iraqi style (a night for Hur, night for Habib Al Muthahir, Night for Ali Al Akbar, Night for Abu Fadl Abbas, Night for Ali Al Asghar, (May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) be pleased with all of them) then the Maqtal, then its over. Also he should wear the traditional thoab of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and black Amama and sit on the minbar. That is the traditional Majalis. There is nothing wrong with doing it that way. The point is to get the intellectual connection (knowledge) and the emotional connection to Imam Hussein((عليه السلام)) and the martyrs at Karbala 

I have absolutely no problem with changing or updating traditions, and I do not judge one's probity on thobes or turbans. My problem is some people seem to imply that SAN has a modern approach to reach the youth, and I think this kind of lecture is the opposite. The emotional part using a baby, a horse, swords, ancient cosplay, fake blood or whatever is typical of old style ta`zia as one brother said. That's not a 'modern' approach. He is just pleasing older audiences here. 

What is questionable about him is rather why the older he grows, the more polemical he gets about his lectures, and spends the time of Muharram slamming open gates about Sunni figures when he could dedicate time to make people discover Prophet (s) and Ahl el Beit (s). I always find it strange how such people speak more about Umar than they speak about our own Prophet. You want to bring back the youth or non Muslims, then tell them what they need to hear, not what they do not need to hear. 

That time of Muharram is like election time, you do not build a campaign on just criticizing your opponents, otherwise it shows you have nothing to bring. That's what bothers me with that new school. 

I heard him praising Sheikh Al Waeli (r) and quote him as an influence for his generation. It's clear proof that you do not need 'hot topics' to bring people to listen to you, rather it's the deepness of your speech that will leave a substantial mark in people's mind. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, realizm said:

he could dedicate time to make people discover Prophet (s) and Ahl el Beit (s). I always find it strange how such people speak more about Umar than they speak about our own Prophet. You want to bring back the youth or non Muslims, then tell them what they need to hear, not what they do not need to hear. 

He's done series after series of lectures and talks on infallibles, companions of the Prophets and Imams, the Prophets(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) mentioned in the Quran,done some commentaries on the Quran and also spoken on social issues. Correct me if I am wrong but I have not come across any other lecturer or scholar of the present time covering such a broad range on topics and that too in detail. 

Just to refresh your memory last Muharram all his lectures focused on social issues. 

I think with all the people raising objections at him the underlying problem is just one -he isn't prounity. Period.

2 hours ago, realizm said:

what they need to hear, not what they do not need to hear. 

And why does one not need to hear about the atrocities committed against the Prophet's household by Abu Bakr, Umar , Abu suffayan and his cursed progeny?? 

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Quote

 

I think with all the people raising objections at him the underlying problem is just one -he isn't prounity. Period.

 

 

In the past there have been threads about him making errors. And you have likely identified the possible source of the problem:

 

3 hours ago, starlight said:

I have not come across any other lecturer or scholar of the present time covering such a broad range on topics and that too in detail. 

There is only so much time that someone can devote to research, especially if they are active on the speaking circuit.

Of course as time goes by he'll be able to backfill research on topics already covered and newer ones may be better researched. So he should be improving and I think he is.

I must say I do find his style of telling the audience that 'this is what I am going to tell you', 'this is what it is' and 'this is what I have told you' somewhat touching, but it's ok in the overall scheme of things.

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3 hours ago, starlight said:

done series after series of lectures and talks on infallibles, companions of the Prophets and Imams, the Prophets(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) mentioned in the Quran,done some commentaries on the Quran and also spoken on social issues. Correct me if I am wrong but I have not come across any other lecturer or scholar of the present time covering such a broad range on topics and that too in detail. 

I think he did a great job with his series on Prophet and Aimmah in the past. My objections about him are related to his stance over the last, say 5 years. 

A point to consider, if you look at YouTube which is his chosen platform, is the reach of his speeches through 'regular' months, compared with that of Muharram - meaning in thousands of views. We are talking of triple to quadruple in Muharram. So it is obviously a criterion of how he chooses the themes of his lectures. 

3 hours ago, starlight said:

Just to refresh your memory last Muharram all his lectures focused on social issues. 

Actually sister, I remember him more for his lectures on Wilayat al faqih and Tatbir, where he explained in a respectful way that Iran didn't have the monopoly on shias. It is his most basic right, but in the current context, I cannot believe this doesn't show an will to oppose some of his fellow shias, for some reason. 

 

3 hours ago, starlight said:

I think with all the people raising objections at him the underlying problem is just one -he isn't prounity. Period

Hence me thinking he is not that pro unity with Shias himself. And as far as I am aware, it was not 'Iranians shias' that took the first shots at him, I think he had big respect from the whole Shia World until he took some particular trajectory. 

 

3 hours ago, starlight said:

And why does one not need to hear about the atrocities committed against the Prophet's household by Abu Bakr, Umar , Abu suffayan and his cursed progeny?? 

I never implied that. My point is that it is not what they need to hear in priority. My priority in Islam is not learning about zulm, it's about how to overcome it. If I am focused on the act of zulm, I'd rather watch Netflix documentaries on criminology and serial killers. 

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1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

must say I do find his style of telling the audience that 'this is what I am going to tell you', 'this is what it is' and 'this is what I have told you' somewhat touching

I absolutely love how his speeches are structured like academic lectures. This is a big plus for me. My daughter sometimes actually sits with a notebook and pen to take notes. 

 

1 hour ago, realizm said:

And as far as I am aware, it was not 'Iranians shias' that took the first shots at him, I think he had big respect from the whole Shia World until he took some particular trajectory.

Among the shias it were the staunch WF followers that first started speaking up against him.

1 hour ago, realizm said:

Hence me thinking he is not that pro unity with Shias himself

How come? He isn't the one who has been raising objections on the marja or azadari practises of other shias.

1 hour ago, realizm said:

If I am focused on the act of zulm, I'd rather watch Netflix documentaries on criminology and serial killers. 

Hmmm.. so instead of listening to how Ali Asghar was slaughtered like an animal, how Abbas(عليه السلام) lost both his arms, how the bodies were trampled under the hoofs, how the tents were burnt you'd prefer watching documentaries? 

Bro, I try and teach my children about our history and they know a few things so I was surprised how excited they were after listening to the majalis about pen and paper and Usama's army 'but our islamiyat book(the sunnis one that they do in school) and teacher tells a different story so that's what happened!' and then they wanted to check out Sahih alBukahri and let me tell you it's not just the children who don't have a knowledge of these things. I had four people contact me during the first ten days, three sunnis and one Shia all over thirty years of age. One of them said I had no idea Hazrat Fatima(عليه السلام) died so young, another was doubtful if Abu Bakr and Umar really disobeyed the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). I was happy to direct two of the more open minded sunnis towards his lectures ( there might be a conversion story soon!) One was shocked to learn that sunni version of Hadith Thaqalyn(Quran and Sunnah) doesn't exist, even in sunni books, another thing I learnt from Sayed Ammar's lecture so these things do carry value. 

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9 hours ago, realizm said:

What is questionable about him is rather why the older he grows, the more polemical he gets about his lectures, and spends the time of Muharram slamming open gates about Sunni figures when he could dedicate time to make people discover Prophet (s) and Ahl el Beit (s).

Sayed Ammar is the man. 

If he doesn't talk about it in English, who will? Guess you missed his lecture on how Imam Hussein ((عليه السلام)) and his companion responded to Aisha's aggression during a certain janazah.

I suppose you prefer the sunni stance of this all being shoved under the rug. Keep everyone in the dark, I mean who cares what happens to those who should be FAR more beloved to us than our own parents. Who cares about the 1000s of censored and fabricated ahadith right after the Prophet (pbuhf) died and throughout generations; only Quran is sufficient for us right? Or shall we take from those ahadith to best practice our religion?

I'd love for the average muslim to be able to claim that had any of this unspeakable atrocities happened to their parents, they'd forget about it in a mere 1400 years. 

 

10 hours ago, realizm said:

That time of Muharram is like election time, you do not build a campaign on just criticizing your opponents, otherwise it shows you have nothing to bring.

It seems you also missed the part where he explained his rationale for "building this campaign" during Muharram. Briefly, he explained how this is the origin of shia identity. And I agree. And it is clear from his first few lectures how something like Karbala doesn't happen overnight, it takes precedence. And those who set the precedence are equally responsible for Karbala. This is a direct connection to Karbala so I don't know what campaign you are referring to.

Finally, those who stood by ghadeer and stood against the hypocrites that set the precedence to slaughter the Household of the Prophet (pbuhf) are the earliest conventional "Shia". How is this showing he has nothing to bring? The discussions literally brought out the heart of the religion you follow.

10 hours ago, realizm said:

I heard him praising Sheikh Al Waeli (r) and quote him as an influence for his generation. It's clear proof that you do not need 'hot topics' to bring people to listen to you, rather it's the deepness of your speech that will leave a substantial mark in people's mind. 

Indeed, and it doesn't get deeper than speaking about the oppression of Ahlulbayt ((عليه السلام)). Hence why you are so bothered that you are posting on a forum about it.

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10 hours ago, realizm said:

What is questionable about him is rather why the older he grows, the more polemical he gets about his lectures, and spends the time of Muharram slamming open gates about Sunni figures when he could dedicate time to make people discover Prophet (s) and Ahl el Beit (s).

What you are suggesting leads to this:

comments_aisha.png.bb1623c3512fb8f46d8f78d4ea3c77ed.png

You'll find such comments by shias on such videos all over youtube; these shias are bending over backwards on the videos of a man who calls all Imami shias "ghali rafizi".

Like I said in the previous thread, we have a whole generation of shias growing up learning history from the school of Khilafat. I myself grew up thinking that these figures were good, because I was fed information from sunni teachers and books. It's about time that someone took the initiative to correct that wrong.

What you are calling "polemical" lectures are simply presenting facts from the books of the school of Ahlul Bayt.

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3 hours ago, dragonxx said:

Indeed, and it doesn't get deeper than speaking about the oppression of Ahlulbayt ((عليه السلام)). Hence why you are so bothered that you are posting on a forum about it.

I am bothered because the discussion was opened in a thread that got locked, then a mod reopened it to post some arguments and I just wanted to answer. 

3 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

What you are suggesting leads to this:

Nice shortcut... 

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Guest Dr. Watson

From my pov, Dr. Nakshwani had been a loose cannon some times, speaking up about the masae’l of muta etc. that were not an appropriate topic during the first ten nights of Muharram. 

But here’s the fact of life, that we change as we mature. Age, experience, knowledge, and more ibada grant us more maturity and more thoughtfulness, along with more Ikhlas. 

Those of us listening to Dr. SAN for years; I admit some times with occasional distastefulness (there were times when we used to listen to his lectures before we would allow kids to listen, see my loose cannon comment above), can easily see his progression and positive trajectory over time mA. 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) increase his tawfiqat for doing a whole lecture series on 14 Masoomeen in the recent past (people of انعمت عليهم), and in Muharram 2021 detailing all of the criminals from the lifetime of the Holy Prophet sawaw all the way to the later ones (people of مغضوب عليهم), essentially connecting the dots from Karbala to Saqifa, clarifying and filling lots of gaps. 

I loved it that he named names because the whole series was about exposing the criminals. In other majalis when these filthy ones aren’t the topic, he just alludes to them without mentioning names. 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) protect him, specially after this series, in geographies like Pakistan or certain parts of London, NY, or Iraq. 

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17 hours ago, realizm said:

What is questionable about him is rather why the older he grows, the more polemical he gets about his lectures, and spends the time of Muharram slamming open gates about Sunni figures when he could dedicate time to make people discover Prophet (s) and Ahl el Beit (s). I always find it strange how such people speak more about Umar than they speak about our own Prophet. You want to bring back the youth or non Muslims, then tell them what they need to hear, not what they do not need to hear. 

Brother - he wrote a book on the 14 Infallibles.

Let's be honest, the main problem shias have with SAN is that he has a neutral stance on WF at best so he is vilified unfairly.

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He is a populist. One day he speaks about respecting the figures of Sunnis, the next day he slams them non stop. One day he speaks to a certain audience he sings to their liking, the next day he sings another tune. The guys track record isn't exactly very good, considering his numerous mistakes both academically and approach. He is charismatic which is why people are attracted to him. I guess charisma over quality for his followers.

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On 8/22/2021 at 6:51 AM, realizm said:

Actually sister, I remember him more for his lectures on Wilayat al faqih and Tatbir, where he explained in a respectful way that Iran didn't have the monopoly on shias. It is his most basic right, but in the current context, I cannot believe this doesn't show an will to oppose some of his fellow shias, for some reason. 

It's all political. I don't have an issue with people of any community disagreeing about this and that, but their are clear connections between SAN (and others) with US and British elites, which he even acknowledge meeting up with former US Secretary of State John Kerry. After seeing that, it's hard to not see his anti-Islamic unity rhetoric as not just a personal opinion, but an attempt to cause fitna for the purposes of preserving US oppression on Muslim lands that we all live in. 

Be aware. 

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12 hours ago, root said:

He is a populist. One day he speaks about respecting the figures of Sunnis, the next day he slams them non stop. One day he speaks to a certain audience he sings to their liking, the next day he sings another tune. The guys track record isn't exactly very good, considering his numerous mistakes both academically and approach. He is charismatic which is why people are attracted to him. I guess charisma over quality for his followers.

#FakeNews.

I would take it as far as saying he has saved a whole generation of shia youth in the West from going astray. He has paved the way for so many new English speaking speakers and aalim coming forth.

Sure he has made mistakes - but find me any speaker and I can point out their mistakes.

Its a shame we can't see beyond our blinders.

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3 minutes ago, BleedKnee said:

It's all political. I don't have an issue with people of any community disagreeing about this and that, but their are clear connections between SAN (and others) with US and British elites, which he even acknowledge meeting up with former US Secretary of State John Kerry. After seeing that, it's hard to not see his anti-Islamic unity rhetoric as not just a personal opinion, but an attempt to cause fitna for the purposes of preserving US oppression on Muslim lands that we all live in. 

Be aware. 

Of course he has met US politicians. I had a detailed discussion with him on this. He said what a lot of us in the US have been saying that we, the Shia, do not have a political voice in US politics. We can hold mini-rallies and protests all year long but the only way to get our agenda on the table and discussed is by having a political voice. 

SAN has not hidden any of this.

American has a anti-Iran stance because of the political $$$ spent by Israel and Saudi. The only way around it is to counter it politically (we can't match their spend).

As shias, we were politically naïve during the times of our Imams and we haven't changed much even now.

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12 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Of course he has met US politicians. I had a detailed discussion with him on this. He said what a lot of us in the US have been saying that we, the Shia, do not have a political voice in US politics. We can hold mini-rallies and protests all year long but the only way to get our agenda on the table and discussed is by having a political voice. 

SAN has not hidden any of this.

American has a anti-Iran stance because of the political $$$ spent by Israel and Saudi. The only way around it is to counter it politically (we can't match their spend).

As shias, we were politically naïve during the times of our Imams and we haven't changed much even now.

It's a bit more than that. Please look at the Backfire video again: Islamic Pulse - British Shiaism II | The Lady Of Heaven | BACKFIRE | Facebook

Also, why constantly start up fitna, casually associating Sunnis with Daesh in nearly every lecture (There's literally a clip in 15:46 where SAN does this very CLEARLY. )? It's not just opinion, it's goal is to cause fitna that serves the US. SAN is associated with UMMA, and organization that had Paul Wolfowitz, the architect of the Iraq War, was a keynote speaker in their first event. They are not agents, they act in their own accord with different intentions, but these intentions align with the US. 

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3 minutes ago, BleedKnee said:

It's a bit more than that. Please look at the Backfire video again: Islamic Pulse - British Shiaism II | The Lady Of Heaven | BACKFIRE | Facebook

I can't see it right now but I imagine its the same one from a while ago.

Yasir Al-Habib - british agent

SAN - not an agent. I say this because I have yet to hear him say anything against shia theology. I guess his biggest fault is he wants to play in the system rather than stand outside and always be complaining about the system.

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1 minute ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I can't see it right now but I imagine its the same one from a while ago.

Yasir Al-Habib - british agent

SAN - not an agent. I say this because I have yet to hear him say anything against shia theology. I guess his biggest fault is he wants to play in the system rather than stand outside and always be complaining about the system.

Check my edits. 

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45 minutes ago, BleedKnee said:

It's a bit more than that. Please look at the Backfire video again: Islamic Pulse - British Shiaism II | The Lady Of Heaven | BACKFIRE | Facebook

Also, why constantly start up fitna, casually associating Sunnis with Daesh in nearly every lecture (There's literally a clip in 15:46 where SAN does this very CLEARLY. )? It's not just opinion, it's goal is to cause fitna that serves the US. SAN is associated with UMMA, and organization that had Paul Wolfowitz, the architect of the Iraq War, was a keynote speaker in their first event. They are not agents, they act in their own accord with different intentions, but these intentions align with the US. 

yes, some intentions align with the US and others don't.

Its just like it JCPOA was aligned with US interests so a deal was done between Iran and US & Co.

Anyway, SAN is controversial - that's why he is relevant and been talked about on ShiaChat as well as a plethora of Sunni forums.

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2 hours ago, BleedKnee said:

anti-Islamic unity rhetoric

Sorry? Since when did uniting with people who revere the oppressors and killers of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) become a wajib tenet of our religion. 

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32 minutes ago, starlight said:

Sorry? Since when did uniting with people who revere the oppressors and killers of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) become a wajib tenet of our religion. 

:salam:

I guess there will always be such debates as long as there are ahadith which at the same time command us to do some active tabarra and enjoin us to pray in the same mosques. 

Some will argue that tabarra is a principle while praying with Sunnis is not, I will say that prayer is above tabarra in order of principles, so the preference goes to prayer and how to stick to proper prayer ethics. 

Funny thing is you mentioned just earlier how several of your acquaintances ignored the zulm of their own figures, then what seems so awful to you to be united with them in a spiritual sense - be it ecumenical and not madhabi? 

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56 minutes ago, realizm said:

:salam:

I guess there will always be such debates as long as there are ahadith which at the same time command us to do some active tabarra and enjoin us to pray in the same mosques. 

Some will argue that tabarra is a principle while praying with Sunnis is not, I will say that prayer is above tabarra in order of principles, so the preference goes to prayer and how to stick to proper prayer ethics. 

Funny thing is you mentioned just earlier how several of your acquaintances ignored the zulm of their own figures, then what seems so awful to you to be united with them in a spiritual sense - be it ecumenical and not madhabi? 

Brother I think you are making a wrong comparison here. 
 

Here’s why..  
 

Furu ud Deen are all same in order of preferences, in other words a missed Salat is not a substitute for the double Hajj, or paying Khums is not a substitute for missed Fasts.

It’s true Salat in essence might be tad bit higher since it’s said, if Salat is accepted then there is a chance that other A’aamal would be accepted too. 
 

For Salat in Jamaat, Given all Furu’ us Deen equal, nowhere it says the Salat ul Jamaat is an absolute wajib the way Salat, or Tabarra is.
 

Salat of Jamaat is mustahib, and Salat Jamaat with Sunnis is mustahib at a different level, but only to a different (prob lesser) degree just because in Salat behind a Sunni, you would still be reciting the Surahs while behind a Shia leader, you won’t be reciting the Surahs, essentially doing Salat in the way Prophet taught us. 
 

Common sense would tell me, Tabarra is definitely higher than Salat in Jamaat, just because Tabarra is wajib same as the Salat or Khums, while the Salat in Jamaat is only mustahib.  

P.S. sitting with a couple of senior ulema, I learned, and am convinced that Tabarra & Tawalla, in their essence and association are more in the grouping of Tawheed, Nabuwa, Imamat, & Adl, basically Aqa’ed (Usool) than in the Furu bucket. People could argue both way so I’m not going to go more on it.

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On 8/22/2021 at 4:54 PM, starlight said:

Among the shias it were the staunch WF followers that first started speaking up against him.

On the contrary first people who have started speaking  against  him have been Salafiss / Wahabis which have called him " Tatoo Sheikh" & etc which after criticizing  WF by him they totally silenced  as a kind of support of his viewpoint .

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

On the contrary first people who have started speaking  against  him have been Salafiss / Wahabis which have called him " Tatoo Sheikh" & etc which after criticizing  WF by him they totally silenced  as a kind of support of his viewpoint .

I wrote 'among the shias' please read again 

As for 'Allama Tattoo' this is what a certain diehard proWF, one of the top iranian funded shia molana said about him from the pulpit. Shameful

Maybe someone else will do a detailed post of all the hatred 'Allama Jawad Naqvi' is spewing here but I will just state a couple of things he said

 1. Ammar Nakhshawni has covered his whole body with tattoos of women and animals and sexually arousing images.

2. He gave a speech in Pakistan to a women(only?) gathering after which Ammar Nakhshawni was posing for selfies with the female students of Madrassah standing cheek to cheek. That's exactly what 'Allama' Jawad Naqvi' said. 

Does these people have no fear that they have to answer to Allah for the words uttered from their tongues. Does he take these things so lightly? If in front of Allah he cannot bring up any tattos of women on Ammar Nakhshawni where does it leave him? Liar? Or someone who puts false allegations on believers???

 

Off topic, but the above mentioned person has used harsh words and public statements for people like Shahenshah Naqvi' and Ali Raza Rizvi for openly speaking again oppressors of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). Of course he was silent when ziyarat e ashura was banned in Pakistan and shias from all over were out protesting in the streets. Apparently his criticism is only reserved for shias.

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30 minutes ago, starlight said:

Maybe someone else will do a detailed post of all the hatred 'Allama Jawad Naqvi' is spewing here but I will just state a couple of things he said

 1. Ammar Nakhshawni has covered his whole body with tattoos of women and animals and sexually arousing images.

2. He gave a speech in Pakistan to a women(only?) gathering after which Ammar Nakhshawni was posing for selfies with the female students of Madrassah standing cheek to cheek. That's exactly what 'Allama' Jawad Naqvi' said. 

Does these people have no fear that they have to answer to Allah for the words uttered from their tongues. Does he take these things so lightly? If in front of Allah he cannot bring up any tattos of women on Ammar Nakhshawni where does it leave him? Liar? Or someone who puts false allegations on believers???

Did Allama Jawad Naqvi really actually say those stuff about Sayed Ammar?  wow

Has Allama Jawad Naqvi himself seen those tattoos ? no. has someone told him, maybe,if so did he spoke to Sayed Ammar to verify those claims no.

About the photos, Has Allama Jawad Naqvi himself seen the photos himself (which aren't true), No. Has spoken to Sayed to Verify these claims no.

Either Allama Jawad Naqvi is not really shia, claim to be or he needs to be completely re-educated otherwise someone on his positions to make such statement, the punishment would be more severe than an ordinary persons says it.

All the accusations he made about Sayed Ammar, is fault.

 

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Guest Dr. Watson

Jawwad Naqvi has his own contributions when it comes to making a huge seminary in Pak. But that’s about it..

Overall his following is only up to certain areas of Punjab region where the ignorance and turban worshiping is rampant. Among the more aware people of Pak, people don’t respect him much (read the comments above) because when it comes to taking a stand for Shia Islamic values, he hides in his hole, but when it comes to criticizing fellow Shias, he is the loudest voice in pakistan. 
 

As far as name calling, he is a master of it. He named called SAN like a street gossiper, which was very disappointing. He has done the same for others too, most of his targets being Shia who are into Muharram related mustahib rituals. He openly doesn’t say it (I’ve never heard it personally) but I’ve known his minions bad mouthing Shanshah Naqvi and other Shia scholars who defend the Shai Islam in Pak’s Muawiah style political scene. 
 

Regardless, back to the topic, Ammar Nakshwani’s Muharram 2021 lectures on exposing the walad uz Zana nation has been a monumental shift in taking back the podium from the likes of Tawhidi and Yasir Habib and is a feat in itself. I wish he does it more. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Dr. Watson said:

Jawwad Naqvi has his own contributions when it comes to making a huge seminary in Pak.

Jamat e Islami and KSA supporters have built bigger Madrassahs all over Pakistan with saudi funding where Saudi ideology is preached so what's the difference? But okay, let's not go off on a tangent. A separate topic can be started.

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Hijabi keeps calling out SAN on Speakers Corner and other platforms. SAN has become the poster child for attacks by salafis/wahabis and unfortunately a lot of shias as well. 

He definitely pushes the envelope but in his speeches, Q&A sessions and personal meetings - I have yet to hear him say anything contrary to the core shia belief system.

In 2 pages here and on other threads, all we've discussed are his tattoos and non-standard appearance. Still waiting for anti-SAN folks to actually bring something substantive about his speeches. It's just jealously...

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18 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Hijabi keeps calling out SAN on Speakers Corner and other platforms. SAN has become the poster child for attacks by salafis/wahabis and unfortunately a lot of shias as well. 

He definitely pushes the envelope but in his speeches, Q&A sessions and personal meetings - I have yet to hear him say anything contrary to the core shia belief system.

In 2 pages here and on other threads, all we've discussed are his tattoos and non-standard appearance. Still waiting for anti-SAN folks to actually bring something substantive about his speeches. It's just jealously...

I have brought questions about why the older he gets, the more he gets into polemics. You usually get this from people who get attacked at one point (like French comedian Dieudonné), The thing is SAN never got attacked by the ones he is now speaking against. 

He went one particular year from being the nice Shia speaker everyone loves, to a sidekick of the most controversial Shia elements (Shirazis) on YouTube.

I am referring to that ramadan series where he was wearing his beanie, which I am sure any internet savvy Shia knows about. 

This, while accepting formal invitations of UK associations for debates with Sunnis. A sort of double speech. 

And since that, his only affiliations have been with media that are not perceived as representative of the majority of the Shia World. 

No one bothers replies about this. 

Of course he doesn't go against core beliefs of usuli shiism. They are common to every twelver, regardless of their hawza affiliations. And actually his editorial line doesn't get out of those core beliefs and basic tenets : akhlaq, devotion to ma'someen, and recently, some spiritual exegesis I admit. 

People here imply he is reaching out to the youth, I differ by saying he actually has no extra material to bring, except for a young image with ties, neat beards - and tattoos. That's to a point of focus to me, but that's his fault if we bring this so often. 

 

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SAN is paid by the Shia extremists now aka Shirazis. It’s obvious that is why his tune has changed from what got him famous in the first place. The Shirazis are brilliant in capturing SAN however because he has a large following in the western world. Now whatever propaganda they want to push they have a puppet in SAN who will do it. I have seen so many of my peers duped by his sectarian narrative.

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6 hours ago, realizm said:

The thing is SAN never got attacked by the ones he is now speaking against. 

Who is he speaking against exactly? Please state names. Or would it be too embarrassing as a shia?

6 hours ago, realizm said:

He went one particular year from being the nice Shia speaker everyone loves, to a sidekick of the most controversial Shia elements (Shirazis) on YouTube.

False. Zero context there. And even though he did not have to, he re-iterated himself on this matter about how false it is. Yet fellow Shias are speaking ill of another Shia by putting words in his mouth. Braavo.

6 hours ago, realizm said:

And since that, his only affiliations have been with media that are not perceived as representative of the majority of the Shia World. 

No clue what you are referring to here. But just to re-iterate, he is a historian. He isn't obligated to be affiliated with whomever you are alluding to.

6 hours ago, realizm said:

I differ by saying he actually has no extra material to bring

Elaborate. What "extra" material are you talking about? I mean, i'm inclined to agree, I wouldn't refer to topics about the masaib of ahlulbayt ((عليه السلام)) as "extra" material, that's just disrespectful.

2 hours ago, 786:) said:

SAN is paid by the Shia extremists now aka Shirazis. It’s obvious that is why his tune has changed from what got him famous in the first place. The Shirazis are brilliant in capturing SAN however because he has a large following in the western world. Now whatever propaganda they want to push they have a puppet in SAN who will do it. I have seen so many of my peers duped by his sectarian narrative.

Mr. Fitna is back, good to see you are alive and accumulating more sin. I am sure Sayed Ammar is going to enjoy having what little hasanat your gained in your life.

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Since Jawad Naqvi's name got thrown in - I would urge people to listen to Allama Shahryar Raza Abidi's videos about him. He did a splendid job of defending SAN from Jawad Naqvi's slandering.

He also brilliantly explained that people like Jawad Naqvi are the reason that the common shia is turning against the concept of WF practiced in Iran - by presenting a twisted, self serving version of it that's not promoted or endorsed by Agha Khamenei, may Allah prolong his life. This is something that self-appointed representatives of WF tend to do.

As an important side note, he does all this using the politest of language and excellent manners, something that we tend to forget is a hallmark of the school of Ahlul Bayt.

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8 hours ago, realizm said:

I have brought questions about why the older he gets, the more he gets into polemics. You usually get this from people who get attacked at one point (like French comedian Dieudonné), The thing is SAN never got attacked by the ones he is now speaking against. 

Perhaps he is getting into polemics as he is getting older because he feels more confident and courageous in speaking about it. If he was talking about the same stuff from 15 years ago, there would be people complaining about him getting stale. I could also argue that he is getting into polemics to counter the anti-shia rhetoric.

8 hours ago, realizm said:

He went one particular year from being the nice Shia speaker everyone loves, to a sidekick of the most controversial Shia elements (Shirazis) on YouTube.

I am referring to that ramadan series where he was wearing his beanie, which I am sure any internet savvy Shia knows about. 

Beanie was the Muharram 2016 lectures. The topics were:

  • Hamza
  • Imam Sadiq Supplication for Sustenance
  • The Mosque of Harm and Disunity
  • No Compulsion in Religion
  • Honor Killings
  • Lubaba - Wife of Ababs
  • Shia-Sunni Marriage
  • Poverty and the Poor

How are these Shirazi topics?

8 hours ago, realizm said:

This, while accepting formal invitations of UK associations for debates with Sunnis. A sort of double speech. 

And since that, his only affiliations have been with media that are not perceived as representative of the majority of the Shia World. 

No one bothers replies about this. 

How? Yes, he is focused on mainstream media rather than shia media. We need to get out of shia-only bubble and go mainstream. Until such time that our marajae are able to attend to mainstream media, he is our best bet. Who else is out there?

8 hours ago, realizm said:

Of course he doesn't go against core beliefs of usuli shiism. They are common to every twelver, regardless of their hawza affiliations. And actually his editorial line doesn't get out of those core beliefs and basic tenets : akhlaq, devotion to ma'someen, and recently, some spiritual exegesis I admit. 

People here imply he is reaching out to the youth, I differ by saying he actually has no extra material to bring, except for a young image with ties, neat beards - and tattoos. That's to a point of focus to me, but that's his fault if we bring this so often. 

There is no extra material needed. If he can bring youth into Centers rather than not attending or worse going to other sects and religions, then yes he should continue with the message.

Let's agree to disagree on SAN. :) 

 

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4 hours ago, 786:) said:

SAN is paid by the Shia extremists now aka Shirazis. It’s obvious that is why his tune has changed from what got him famous in the first place. The Shirazis are brilliant in capturing SAN however because he has a large following in the western world. Now whatever propaganda they want to push they have a puppet in SAN who will do it. I have seen so many of my peers duped by his sectarian narrative.

Dude - you were duped by an online mullah. Come on...

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