How can I check the authenticity of our hadiths ?

[Mohamad Abdel-Hamid]

Salaam,

Could someone please recommend me a book or show me a site where I can check if some of our ahadeeth are sahih or not, because for example every time I download our books (al-Kafi, Biharul Anwar, etc...) in pdf, it only shows me the narrations like this: "So-and-so narrated from so-and-so who narrated from Imam so-and-so who said: this and that" and the next thing I see is another narration with the same structure. How can I know the grading and authenticity these narrations ?

You all may know https://sunnah.com/ which is a site that clearly shows the authencity of the hadiths in Sunni books. Is there a similar site (or a book) that does the same thing for Shia books ?

Thank you.

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam at first hadith can be prerented to holy Quran at first place then verified procedure & merits of Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام) then at the using Rijal .

Quote

Based on a hadith narrated by Sulaym b. Qays, the evaluation of hadiths based on their transmitters started with Imam Ali (a). In that hadith, the Imam (a) stated that hadith transmitters were of four types: hypocrites (liars and fabricators), those who misunderstand, those who do not discern the abrogating hadiths from the abrogated ones, and those who are trustworthy and accurate.

According to the reports, the concern for ascertaining the authenticity of hadiths existed since the beginning of this period, and this led the companions of the Imams (a) to ask them about how to discern authentic hadiths, and the Imams (a) provided them with some instructions. According to al-Shaykh al-Tusi, the Shiite community was faced with the phenomenon of discrepancy between some hadiths, and the Imams (a) gave instructions as to how to solve this problem. Some of these instructions focus on the merits of the transmitters of the conflicting reports and, for instance, teach that the hadith which is narrated by the transmitters who are more righteous, knowledgeable, or honest is to take precedence. Another measure that the Imams (a) took was attesting to the trustworthiness of specific individuals—such as Yunus b. Abd al-Rahman, Zakariyya b. Adam, and Abu Basir Layth al-Muradi—or to authenticity of hadiths of certain books that were presented to them.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Rijal

Quote

 Main books of shiite rijal science:
Rijal science is: the science that talks about conditions that we accept the narrator`s speechs under thoese conditions.

in the other words: Rijal science is divided into two parts.

One of them: Apparent recognition. means: name, nickname, etc.

Another: inner recognition. means: Inherent descriptions like:

The credibility or eulogy of narrators or lack of it.

Introducing the main sources of shiits rijal:

The standard of valuing of hadith narraters and Discovering their credit rating is One of the measure of validation tools of hadith in shiit sources.

Therefore, the Shiite scholars are paying attention to Behavior and Speech of hadiths narraters And counted it one of the necessary preconditions for finding authentic narratives.

 

Quote

1.  Rijal_al_kash’shi

2. Rijal_al_najashi

3. sheikh toosi`s Alfehrest

4.  Rijal toosi

5.  Rijal al_barghi

6.  Abu qalib zurary treatise:

7.  mashikhah[28] of Sadoogh

8. mashikhah of sheikh toosi is in two books: Tahzib and Estebsar

9. Rijal ibn qazaeri

10.Mu'jam rijal al-hadith (book) by Ayatollah Sayyid Abu l-Qasim al-Khoei in the field of hadith sciences, and particularly rijal.

 

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The difference between the “Rijal” and “Fehrest” books:

The purpose of the compilation of Rijal books is to express the Tabaqah[33] of the companions of the Imams (عليه السلام) But the main purpose of writing the Fehrest books is to mention the usool books and the compilations and the names of their authors.

http://valiasr-aj.com/english/mobile_shownews.php?idnews=621

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Mu'jam_rijal_al-hadith_(book)

Quote

User Interface Language : English,Farsi,Arabic
Produce : Computer Research Center of Islamic Sciences
date of birth : 1395/2/25
Last Update Date : 1395/2/25
OS : Windows
The minimum space required after the installation. : ‎900 MB

https://www.noorsoft.org/en/software/View/15103/software-program-Library-of-Shi'a-Rijal

https://www.noorsoft.org/en/software/List/?CategoryItemID=8480

 

[Ali bin Hussein]

@Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

 maybe you can help ?

As we have been having some nice conversation on the topic. And you have been very helpful to me.

[fawze24]

Salam,

Given that there are tons of books on Rijal, I'm like OP where I don't have the qualifications to look through them and come up with a result.

Does anyone know if there are books available that have graded other books hadith by hadith?

[Hamza ibn Ali]

Salam,

I assume what you're asking is for a website which presents a hadith and then gives you the grading based on the opinions of our scholars. The website thaqalayn.net has all 8 volumes of Al-Kafi translated (although sometimes the translation is poor) with hadith gradings provided at the bottom from Allāmah Majlisi's Mir’at al-‘Uqool. Please note that you will come across hadiths you don't understand or seem bizarre as with any hadith collection. These hadiths have been explained by our scholars in their books. Also note that any hadith which contradicts the Quran must be rejected. Sometimes Allāmah al-Majlisi gets a grading wrong (for example there's a hadith that says the Quran was revealed with 17,000 verses and he grades it as Sahih but after a careful study of the chain it is actually Daeef) and sometimes the website itself misses a hadith entirely or attributes a grading to the wrong hadith. This is why it's good to have a copy or scan of Mir’at al-‘Uqool open next to you just to check that the gradings are correct and to read Al-Majlisi's enlightening commentary. If you don't already know Arabic, I'd really recommend spending time learning Arabic rather than waiting for translations of Shi'i texts.

P.S. Bihar al-Anwar only has some 4000 (according to Asif Muhseni) reliable hadiths and it is filled with nonsensical hadiths so please do not just pull a hadith from there and say “Well it's in Bihar so it must have some merit.” Allāmah al-Majlisi's goal in collecting Bihar al-Anwar was to collect ANY hadith he could for the purpose of preserving as many as he could for later scholars to analyze. He was NOT collecting hadiths he thought were reliable. He even includes hadiths narrated by Nasibis (Ahlulbayt haters). So again Bihar is hardly valuable for laymen and you probably shouldn't use it as a source. But if you know Arabic and want to read only the reliable hadiths in Bihar, Asif Muhseni has a book called Al-Mu‘tabar min Bihar al-Anwar which includes every mu‘tabar (reliable) hadith from Bihar.

Wassalam.

[Mohamad Abdel-Hamid]

That's why I'm asking, surely there are modern authors and new editions of these books that have graded every hadith present in the books, like our Sunni brothers have.

I already know that we need to compare the hadith to Qur'an, but even then we need to know the narrators, and also analyze the context of the hadith, and so many things... I don't think I can do that on my own, because I reaaaally don't want to commit any mistakes by quoting a hadith I think is sahih but turns out it's da'eef or forged. 

[Ali bin Hussein]

1 hour ago, Hamza ibn Ali said:

. Sometimes Allāmah al-Majlisi gets a grading wrong (for example there's a hadith that says the Quran was revealed with 17,000 verses and he grades it as Sahih but after a careful study of the chain it is actually Daeef) 

According to whom and what methodology did Majlisi get it wrong ?

By wrong do you mean some one else's methodology or Majlisi made a mistake according to his own criteria

As far as I understood Majlisis didnt rely on error free chains in his methodology. 

[Hamza ibn Ali]

5 minutes ago, Ali bin Hussein said:

According to whom and what methodology did Majlisi get it wrong ?

By wrong do you mean some one else's methodology or Majlisi made a mistake according to his own criteria

As far as I understood Majlisis didnt rely on error free chains in his methodology. 

Al-Kulayni would sometimes shorten chains in hadiths that have similar chains to the one previous. The chain for the "17,000 verses in the Quran" hadith has been shortened. It should include Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Sayyar who is Daeef and is a Ghali (extremist).

[Hamza ibn Ali]

59 minutes ago, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

That's why I'm asking, surely there are modern authors and new editions of these books that have graded every hadith present in the books, like our Sunni brothers have.

I already know that we need to compare the hadith to Qur'an, but even then we need to know the narrators, and also analyze the context of the hadith, and so many things... I don't think I can do that on my own, because I reaaaally don't want to commit any mistakes by quoting a hadith I think is sahih but turns out it's da'eef or forged.

Shaykh Asif Muhseni and Shaykh Bahbudi are two contemporary hadith scholars who have books grading hadiths (Muhseni has Mu‘tabar min Bihar al-Anwar and Mu‘jam al-Ahadith al-Mu‘tabara and Bahbudi has Sahih al-Kafi). If you want to see only reliable hadiths I recommend Mu‘jam al-Ahadith al-Mu‘tabara by Shaykh Asif Muhseni. He compiles many hadiths (only reliable ones) from different books into one nice book. He also does this for Bihar al-Anwar (as mentioned earlier, his book Mu‘tabar min Bihar al-Anwar is only the reliable ahadith from Bihar). And Allāmah al-Majlisi's Mir’at al-‘Uqool is one of the most valuable pieces of hadith scholarship ever. Again thaqalayn.net is a great resource.

[Dubilex]

90% of hadiths are inauthentic anyway, and many of the hadiths directly contradicts the Quran

[Ali bin Hussein]

6 hours ago, Dubilex said:

90% of hadiths are inauthentic anyway, and many of the hadiths directly contradicts the Quran

Can you expand on this ? 

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

10 hours ago, Hamza ibn Ali said:

Al-Kulayni would sometimes shorten chains in hadiths that have similar chains to the one previous. The chain for the "17,000 verses in the Quran" hadith has been shortened. It should include Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Sayyar who is Daeef and is a Ghali (extremist).

As salam o Aliakum everyone who sees my post.

First of all, Sheikh Kulayni did shorten chain when chains were similar to chain of hadith preceeding it.

Sheikh Kulayni never ever mentioned Ahmed Bin Muhammad Bin Sayyar as Ahmed Bin Muhammad in whole Al-Kafi.

There are some hadiths before and after those hadith which are from Ahmed Bin Muhamamd Bin Isa so what made you come to conclusion that Sheikh kulayni in middle quoted a hadith from Sayyar with ultimate Tadlees ( hiding real name ) to do what? Deceive people reading his book?

There is no proof for that. Kindly make claims that are famous and proven.

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

21 hours ago, Ali bin Hussein said:

@Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

 maybe you can help ?

As we have been having some nice conversation on the topic. And you have been very helpful to me.

I'm no expert but we share our opinions here for our Islah.

I agree with many points brothers have mentioned above.

Checking Rijal is okay but i think all arguments or opinions are circular. 

For me, Kutab e Arba are reliable and there is no need to check chains.

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

10 hours ago, Hamza ibn Ali said:

Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Sayyar who is Daeef and is a Ghali (extremist).

What is the proof that he is weak, and is an extremist? and how does him being Ghali in beliefs  ( unproven ) make him dubious? Will wait for explanation. Does scholar, who called him weak and ghali has ever met him? or has any proof for his weakness? 

You'll call anyone a ghali according to your standards but why do we see you people and Najashi and others praising people like Ibn Junaid Al-Shaitaan as thiqa who accepted using qias? Why is he not labeled as a Muqasir and a deviant?

Why is Sheikh Sadooq and his teachers who believed Aima (عليه السلام) can make mistakes not called deviant muqasirs?

Edited August 4, 2021 by Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

[JimJam]

This most excellent site has Al Kafi with Alama Baqir Majlisi's grading given for almost every hadith

https://thaqalayn.net/ 

Edit:

I'm surprised people here dont seem to know about this site.

Edited August 4, 2021 by JimJam

[Ali bin Hussein]

3 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

As salam o Aliakum everyone who sees my post.

First of all, Sheikh Kulayni did shorten chain when chains were similar to chain of hadith preceeding it.

Sheikh Kulayni never ever mentioned Ahmed Bin Muhammad Bin Sayyar as Ahmed Bin Muhammad in whole Al-Kafi.

There are some hadiths before and after those hadith which are from Ahmed Bin Muhamamd Bin Isa so what made you come to conclusion that Sheikh kulayni in middle quoted a hadith from Sayyar with ultimate Tadlees ( hiding real name ) to do what? Deceive people reading his book?

There is no proof for that. Kindly make claims that are famous and proven.

Also I'm sure other scholars such has Hilli have regarded the 17000 verse hadith as authentic.

Sheikh Sadooq also mentions it in his creed.

He gives a different explanation but doesn't deny the hadith.

[Mohamad Abdel-Hamid]

16 hours ago, Hamza ibn Ali said:

(for example there's a hadith that says the Quran was revealed with 17,000 verses and he grades it as Sahih but after a careful study of the chain it is actually Daeef)

 

15 hours ago, Hamza ibn Ali said:

the "17,000 verses in the Quran"

 

1 hour ago, Ali bin Hussein said:

Also I'm sure other scholars such has Hilli have regarded the 17000 verse hadith as authentic.

Sheikh Sadooq also mentions it in his creed.

He gives a different explanation but doesn't deny the hadith.

What Sheikh as-Saduq is practically saying is that if we take in consideration everything that the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has said in his life, then it would have been in the Qur'an, since he only speaks the truth; and also there are many times when Jibreel (عليه السلام) spoke to him but it wasn't put in the Qur'an. So, if ahadith were meant to be in the Qur'an, it would have been 17,000 verses instead of ~6000 or so verses.

[Hamza ibn Ali]

On 8/4/2021 at 2:53 AM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

As salam o Aliakum everyone who sees my post.

First of all, Sheikh Kulayni did shorten chain when chains were similar to chain of hadith preceeding it.

Sheikh Kulayni never ever mentioned Ahmed Bin Muhammad Bin Sayyar as Ahmed Bin Muhammad in whole Al-Kafi.

There are some hadiths before and after those hadith which are from Ahmed Bin Muhamamd Bin Isa so what made you come to conclusion that Sheikh kulayni in middle quoted a hadith from Sayyar with ultimate Tadlees ( hiding real name ) to do what? Deceive people reading his book?

There is no proof for that. Kindly make claims that are famous and proven.

I think the author of this website (http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/09/hadeeth-17000-verses-in-quraan-saheeh.html?m=1) gives an interesting argument for why the hadith is Daeef. And no, Al-Kulayni doesn't hide narrators to deceive people but to not be repetitive and he is also prone to error. This isn't an attack against Shaykh al-Kulayni, may Allah be pleased with him. Whether the 17,000 verses hadith is reliable or not doesn't bother me at all. I know there are other explanations for it by our great scholars. I simply think the argument that it may be Daeef is convincing enough to accept or at the very least consider.

[Hamza ibn Ali]

On 8/4/2021 at 7:46 AM, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

 

 

What Sheikh as-Saduq is practically saying is that if we take in consideration everything that the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has said in his life, then it would have been in the Qur'an, since he only speaks the truth; and also there are many times when Jibreel (عليه السلام) spoke to him but it wasn't put in the Qur'an. So, if ahadith were meant to be in the Qur'an, it would have been 17,000 verses instead of ~6000 or so verses.

If only the opponents of Ahlulbayt (asws) would actually read what our scholars say there would be no confusion on their part, but I suppose for that to happen Shias ourselves should first read what our scholars say haha. Unfortunately in talking to some Shias, you see that they refuse to read but act like they know everything. Some humility is good for us.

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

23 hours ago, Hamza ibn Ali said:

I think the author of this website (http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/09/hadeeth-17000-verses-in-quraan-saheeh.html?m=1) gives an interesting argument for why the hadith is Daeef. And no, Al-Kulayni doesn't hide narrators to deceive people but to not be repetitive and he is also prone to error. This isn't an attack against Shaykh al-Kulayni, may Allah be pleased with him. Whether the 17,000 verses hadith is reliable or not doesn't bother me at all. I know there are other explanations for it by our great scholars. I simply think the argument that it may be Daeef is convincing enough to accept or at the very least consider.

Brother you shouldn't just read anything on internet and start accepting it as truth.

Do you know that making an error doesn't make anysense here at all.

Becauae Kulayni is narrating from books of the persons mentioned in chain. Please refer to The two Fehrists. The are lists of authors of shias not narrators.

So does it make sense that kulayni opens Ahmed Bin Muhammad Bin Isa's book, quote 2 2 or 3 hadiths from it, closes it, open sayyars book and quote hadith of tehreef without listing his name, then closes sayyars book and re opens Isa's book and start narrating from him again?

There is no proof for that. No one in 1000 years came up with what Nader Zaveri came up a few years ago also he has no proof for what he wrote.

This Hadith is Sahih and genuine and proves people have made subtractions in Quran. Anyways this isn't the topic leave it.

I was saying, if someone said x or y is weak it doesn't necessarily make him weak because the person accusing him doesn't have any proof while you'll always find some authentication for many narrators.

Also what Sheikh Sadooq has said regarding this hadith, it doesn't make sense since hadith says that **QURAN** that Jibreal bought... and Quran refers to what that comes under recitation not like Hadith Al-Qudsi.