If you're 'born homosexual', then why is it haram?

[guest 2025]

Some people are born without eyes, hands, feet. Some people are disfigured or mentally disabled. Why is it that for them we can accept a prescription for a lifetime of patience, acceptance in God's will and trust in His plan, but with the LGBT it's different? 

Also I don't think it matters much if they are born gay or not. Either way the result is the same and they didn't choose this, just like how blind people didn't choose to not have eyes. What matters is what they do with their circumstances in life. Some gay believers act on their urges, some don't. And I have a feeling that the ones that don't will be a source of envy in the next world. We will all wish we were put through their condition once we see how Allah rewards them, and how the angels handle them with honor and grace. They would have done something that 99% of people are not willing to do.

[Qa'im]

Ultimately, God chooses what is halal and haram, and some of our appetites and instincts may need to be restricted. In the same way that one cannot commit adultery, one cannot engage in gay sex. Adultery and fornication are more "natural" than homosexuality - you cannot derive "ought" simply from what "is".

Here are some interesting readings on this topic for those who are interested:

1. According to one study, gay men are 7x more likely to have been sexually abused as children than straight men. (Holmes and Slap, 1998) Another study says 46% of gay men were abused as children (Tomeo, 2001).

https://www.jimhopper.com/pdf/holmes_and_slap_1998.pdf
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11501300/

2. John Money, who performed the first modern sex changes and invented terms like "gender role" and "sexual orientation", and popularized the concept of "gender identity", abused children and led to their suicides.

3. The transgender attempted suicide rate is 32-50% (Virupaksha, 2016). This cannot be attributed simply to a lack of gender affirmation, since this suicide epidemic did not exist during times where gender affirmation didn't exist, and other marginalized communities don't commit suicide at comparable numbers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/

4. 21% of Generation Z is LGBTQ (Gallup, 2022).
https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx

5. 67.5% of homosexual men have intestinal worms https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1704818/

6. Homosexuals are significantly more likely to have Sexually Transmitted Diseases https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6893897/

7. Homosexual men have a median of ~16 partners in their lifetime. 27% of homosexuals have had over 30 partners. https://medium.com/@neuropsychology/gay-promiscuity-statistics-partners-45fc370c0ca5

8. Homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1556756/

9. Homosexuals are more likely to abuse their foster children https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2466/pr0.96.1.227-230

10. 61% of bisexual women and 43% of lesbians are victims of partner abuse, compared to 35% of heterosexual women https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_sofindings.pdf

11. 42% of women in prison are lesbian or bisexual, despite being less than 10% of the population https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/SORS-LGBTQ-May-2022.pdf

 

Even based on the harm principle alone, it is totally rational to not want to be part of such a community, and to not want such activities to be celebrated.

[Eddie Mecca]

I'd be highly surprised if a small percentage of born homosexuals didn't exist in nature—I suppose it's possible however—some animals exemplify bisexual tendencies and not exclusively homosexual behavior—exclusive homosexual behavior in nature is rare—if a person was born a no. 6 Kinsey Scale (i.e. exemplifying or representing strict homosexuality) homosexual then Islamic law wouldn't be binding on such a person—in an ideal Islamic state, the citizenry would exercise mercy and compassion and help him (her) find a proper mate and live a quiet, peaceful and meaningful life/existence—the Islamic state, wouldn't allow them (gays and lesbians) to propagate or promulgate their movement or cause though—Islamic privacy laws are pretty airtight for a reason—this is/was probably the reason

[Ashvazdanghe]

20 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

if a person was born a no. 6 Kinsey Scale (i.e. exemplifying or representing strict homosexuality) homosexual then Islamic law wouldn't be binding on such a person

Salam such thing doesn't exist in reality which it's just an innovation of Kinsey based on his satanic procedure .

22 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

then Islamic law wouldn't be binding on such a person—in an ideal Islamic state, the citizenry would exercise mercy and compassion and help him (her) find a proper mate and live a quiet, peaceful and meaningful life/existence

This is just your false assumption because in ideal Islamic state everyone must follow Islamic rules which people will do help & show compassion for a person who has a disability not a sinful satanic desire so therefore they won't prepare a same sex mate fo that person but on the other hand help that person to overcome his(her) satanic desires & follows a life with chastity & modesty until end of his (her) life even he (she) won't marry until his(her) death. 

28 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

the Islamic state, wouldn't allow them (gays and lesbians) to propagate or promulgate their movement or cause though—Islamic privacy laws are pretty airtight for a reason—this is/was probably the reason

This is only true part. 

[Haji 2003]

5 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

I'd be highly surprised if a small percentage of born homosexuals didn't exist in nature—I suppose it's possible however—some animals exemplify bisexual tendencies

People who make this argument forget that the animal world displays lots of behaviours such as the female eating the male after sex, but that does not make it right for humans to do so as well.

[notme]

7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam such thing doesn't exist in reality

No, it really does. Both rats and rabbits will engage in homosexual behavior when in crowded conditions or under certain stresses. Some reptiles and fish will actually change gender, and many plants possess both genders.  

But as @Haji 2003 said, many things exist in nature that aren't right for humans.  

[Ahmad8888]

9 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

I'd be highly surprised if a small percentage of born homosexuals didn't exist in nature—I suppose it's possible however—some animals exemplify bisexual tendencies and not exclusively homosexual behavior—exclusive homosexual behavior in nature is rare—if a person was born a no. 6 Kinsey Scale (i.e. exemplifying or representing strict homosexuality) homosexual then Islamic law wouldn't be binding on such a person—in an ideal Islamic state, the citizenry would exercise mercy and compassion and help him (her) find a proper mate and live a quiet, peaceful and meaningful life/existence—the Islamic state, wouldn't allow them (gays and lesbians) to propagate or promulgate their movement or cause though—Islamic privacy laws are pretty airtight for a reason—this is/was probably the reason

Animal behaviour should not be the bench mark to help you determine what might be "natural" with humans. Animals also have their own free will don't forget this and animals have everything from cannibalism, to r*pe, to not having a gender, etc... just yesterday I saw a vid on how some animals stab eachother with needles in order to have children and the animal that gets stabbed first becomes the female, the animal world is home to all sorts of weird things. 

[foxmccloud]

7 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

People who make this argument forget that the animal world displays lots of behaviours such as the female eating the male after sex, but that does not make it right for humans to do so as well.

(some) Animals eat their own childern, should we as well? that's an good counter-argument

[Diaz]

Lion snif another lion’s bu** as greeting, should we do the same thing? 

[The Green Knight]

On 7/30/2021 at 10:35 PM, Momoshiki Ōtsutsuki said:

So, As we all know, Homosexuality is haram in Islam. A commonly question is, if your born with homosexuality/naturally homosexual, then why would it be haram? Didn't Allah make everyone perfectly? So why would homosexuality be haram?

Now then, I've tried to find an answer for this, and It's a pretty tough question. It would seem quite hard to understand why it would be like this. It's especially pretty hard to understand the "If you are gay, then you just can't marry for the rest of your life", Which would not really be a good moral argument. They then present the argument that "Imagine if you were told that being straight is a sin, and that you can only be homosexual. And If you can't be homosexual, then you have to remain celibate for the rest of your life." It then seems like a pretty solid argument.

So, If it's two consenting adults, and it causes no harm, do we got a moral argument against it?

They said a person is "born gay". That their brains are "wired differently". It then raises the question that surely its not only gays who are wired differently in the head but also everyone different has to have a different wiring in the head? Pedophiles, rapists, and each deviation is naturally hard wired in their heads to enjoy what they do, so it becomes illogical to blame them or prosecute them because they are likewise helpless and only acting upon their natural wiring.

Secondly, "science" changes its opinions every now and then without remorse, its just its nature. One day vegetable fats are good for you but the other they aren't. Coca cola is a tonic then later some find out that its a sugary poison. Science generally keeps changing as the human race gets wiser and there is no telling when it will be final. As long as science remains corporate funded or there are influential people with agendas its going to be abused same as religion.

[Haji 2003]

Fecal incontinence

Quote

These results provide initial epidemiologic evidence supporting a link between anal intercourse and FI among both men and women. These results provide evidence to inform discussions between patients and providers with regard to the association between FI and anal intercourse. Future studies evaluating multicomponent interventions to improve FI could consider counseling regarding the association of anal intercourse and FI as part of standard practice.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5231615/

[The Green Knight]

Quote

According to Amir ul-Mu’minin ‘Ali (‘a), a person who has committed this sin (sodomy) must also be burnt after being killed.

https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-1-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/eleventh-greater-sin-sodomy

From the most informative book on greater sins by Ayatullah Dastghaib Shirazi. I highly recommend everyone should read it and understand.

[Diaz]

9 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-1-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/eleventh-greater-sin-sodomy

From the most informative book on greater sins by Ayatullah Dastghaib Shirazi. I highly recommend everyone should read it and understand.

I already read it, it was one of the best books I read. Highly recommend everyone to read it fully. 

[Guest Window]

On 9/15/2021 at 1:25 PM, Revert1963 said:

egarding same sex attraction, the terms homosexual and heterosexual is modern terms only a little over a 100 years old. The Quran does not deal with attraction. Only with haram acts. Anybody could be guilty of a haram act if they commits it. It could be argued that modern homosexuality is a lifestyle choice that anybody could choose or not chose to indulge in. And frankly I think that many people are tempted into that lifestyle by the fashion industry, the sex industry or by having the wrong friends. I do not see how choosing a particular lifestyle has anything to do with a medical condition

If you are attracted to same gender, you have probably looked at haram material where the person is undressed sometime in your pre-teen years, watched people engage in this in real life or in movies and are curious, or were so sheltered/were told that the opposite sex is “bad” so being with the same gender feels safer. Some parents who shelter their kids too much later find-out one or more of their children has same-sex attraction. 

Whatever the reason, attraction is not haram. Acting upon those desires is, according to the Quran, and if you act upon them without repenting, well, then, let’s just say it won’t go well for you in the afterlife.