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In the Name of God بسم الله

The sons of the Imams were Zaydis

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1 hour ago, Muslim2010 said:

Now  we calculate the number of alphabets/letters in the names of Ahl al-Bayt (p) and they are:

علي = 3 حروف (ع ل ی)

فاطمة = 5 حروف (ف ا ط م ہ )

حسن = 3 حروف (ح س ن)

حسين = 4 حروف (ح س ی ن)

علي = 3 حروف (ع ل ی)

محمد = 4 حروف (م ح م د)

جعفر = 4 حروف (ج ع ف ر)

موسى = 4 حروف (م و س ی)

علي = 3 حروف (ع ل ی)

محمد = 4 حروف (م ح م د)

علي = 3 حروف (ع ل ی)

حسن = 3 حروف (ح س ن)

محمد = 4 حروف (م ح م د)

المجموع 47

You excluded the Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) from your calculation.

Now we have exited the realm of logic, and have entered the paradigm of delusion, and sophistry. 

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8 hours ago, Zaidism said:

So, the level of logic has boiled down to this. 

The Qur'an says: 

The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. {Al-Tawbah: 36}

Therefore, twelve Imams. 

Every logic should exhaust when you find a sahih hadith giving the ta'vil of any verse by the "Rasikhoona fil ilm".

We don't use logic to deny the ahadith of Ma'sumeen (عليه السلام), we use logic to understand their words. 

8 hours ago, Cool said:

وَلَقَدْ أَخَذَ اللّهُ مِيثَاقَ بَنِي إِسْرَآئِيلَ وَبَعَثْنَا مِنهُمُ اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ نَقِيبًا

I will come to this one too

- (مَنَاقِبُ ابْنِ شَهْرَآشُوبَ):عَنِ النَّبِيِّ(صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ): «كَائِنٌ فِي أُمَّتِي مَا كَانَ فِي بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ حَذْوَ النَّعْلِ بِالنَّعْلِ وَ الْقُذَّةِ بِالْقُذَّةِ،كَانَ فِيهِمْ اثْنَا عَشَرَ نَقِيباً فِي قَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى: وَ بَعَثْنٰا مِنْهُمُ اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ نَقِيباً

Here is another:

 (إِرْشَادُ الْقُلُوبِ):عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ،عَنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ(صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ)-فِي حَدِيثٍ-قَالَ: «مَعَاشِرَ النَّاسِ،مَنْ أَحَبَّ أَنْ يَلْقَى اللَّهَ وَ هُوَ عَنْهُ رَاضٍ فَلْيُوَالِ عِدَّةَ الْأَئِمَّةِ».فَقَامَ جَابِرُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ،فَقَالَ:وَ مَا عِدَّةُ الْأَئِمَّةِ؟ فَقَالَ:«يَا جَابِرُ،سَأَلْتَنِي-يَرْحَمُكَ اللَّهُ-عَنِ الْإِسْلاَمِ بِأَجْمَعِهِ،عِدَّتُهُمْ عِدَّةُ الشُّهُورِ،وَ هِيَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْراً فِي كِتَابِ اللَّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَ الْأَرْضِ،وَ عِدَّتُهُمْ عِدَّةُ الْعُيُونِ الَّتِي انْفَجَرَتْ لِمُوسَى بْنِ عِمْرَانَ(عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ) حِينَ ضَرَبَ بِعَصَاهُ الْبَحْرَ فَانْفَجَرَتْ مِنْهُ اثْنَتَا عَشْرَةَ عَيْناً،وَ عِدَّتُهُمْ عِدَّةُ نُقَبَاءِ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ،قَالَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى: وَ لَقَدْ أَخَذَ اللّٰهُ مِيثٰاقَ بَنِي إِسْرٰائِيلَ وَ بَعَثْنٰا مِنْهُمُ اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ نَقِيباً وَ الْأَئِمَّةُ-يَا جَابِرُ-اِثْنَا عَشَرَ،أَوَّلُهُمْ عَلِيُّ بْنُ أَبِي طَالِبٍ وَ آخِرُهُمُ الْقَائِمُ

And here is one more:

  (غَيْبَةُ النُّعْمَانِيِّ):

عَنْ أَبِي كُرَيْبٍ وَ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ،قَالاَ:حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو أُسَامَةَ،قَالَ:حَدَّثَنَا الْأَشْعَثُ،عَنْ عَامِرٍ،عَنْ عَمِّهِ،عَنْ مَسْرُوقٍ،قَالَ: كُنَّا جُلُوساً عِنْدَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مَسْعُودٍ يُقْرِئُنَا الْقُرْآنَ،فَقَالَ رَجُلٌ:يَا أَبَا عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ،هَلْ سَأَلْتُمْ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ(صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ)كَمْ يَمْلِكُ هَذِهِ الْأُمَّةُ مِنْ خَلِيفَةٍ بَعْدَهُ؟ فَقَالَ:مَا سَأَلَنِي عَنْهَا أَحَدٌ مُنْذُ قَدِمْتُ الْعِرَاقَ،نَعَمْ سَأَلْنَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ(صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ)فَقَالَ:«اثْنَا عَشَرَ،عِدَّةَ نُقَبَاءِ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ

Yet another from the same book:

 وَ عَنْهُ:عَنْ عُثْمَانَ بْنِ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ،وَ أَبِي أَحْمَدَ،وَ يُوسُفَ بْنِ مُوسَى الْقَطَّانِ،وَ سُفْيَانَ بْنِ وَكِيعٍ،قَالُوا:حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ،عَنِ الْأَشْعَثِ بْنِ سَوَّارٍ،عَنْ عَامِرٍ الشَّعْبِيِّ،عَنْ عَمِّهِ قَيْسِ بْنِ عَبْدٍ،قَالَ: جَاءَ أَعْرَابِيٌّ فَأَتَى عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ مَسْعُودٍ، وَ أَصْحَابُهُ عِنْدَهُ،فَقَالَ:فِيكُمْ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مَسْعُودٍ؟فَأَشَارُوا إِلَيْهِ،قَالَ لَهُ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ:قَدْ وَجَدْتَهُ،فَمَا حَاجَتُكَ؟ قَالَ:إِنِّي أُرِيدُ أَنْ أَسْأَلَكَ عَنْ شَيْءٍ إِنْ كُنْتَ سَمِعْتَهُ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ(صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ)فَنَبِّئْنَا بِهِ،أَ حَدَّثَكُمْ نَبِيُّكُمْ كَمْ يَكُونُ بَعْدَهُ مِنْ خَلِيفَةٍ؟ قَالَ:وَ مَا سَأَلَنِي عَنْ هَذَا أَحَدٌ مُنْذُ قَدِمْتُ الْعِرَاقَ،نَعَمْ قَالَ:«الْخُلَفَاءُ بَعْدِي اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً،كَعِدَّةِ نُقَبَاءِ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ».

This stuff combined with what we see in the books of Ahlul Sunnah, is a valid evidence for the number of Khulafa or Successors or Imams after Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Cool said:

We don't use logic to deny the ahadith of Ma'sumeen

Really, aren't you an Usooli?

 

14 minutes ago, Cool said:

Here

The non-existence of the number 12 has been established, the clearest evidence is nobody ever mentioned this Hadith of 12 caliphs during the time of the 11 Imams. It would have been an amazing argument to use against the Waqefyah, or really any Shi'i who maintained a belief in 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 Imams - all one would need to do is share that Hadith, and therefore result in the refutation of their creed. 

Furthermore, this Hadith is not mentioned in a single Zaydi work at that, so all that was really just going to show the emptiness of your claims. 

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Zaidiyyah should learn the definition of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) from this hadith:

وَ قَدْ رُوِّينَا عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ ص‌ أَنَّ سَائِلًا سَأَلَهُ فَقَالَ يَا ابْنَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أَخْبِرْنِي عَنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ ص مَنْ هُمْ قَالَ هُمْ أَهْلُ بَيْتِهِ خَاصَّةً قَالَ فَإِنَّ الْعَامَّةَ يَزْعُمُونَ أَنَّ الْمُسْلِمِينَ كُلَّهُمْ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ فَتَبَسَّمَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ قَالَ‌[5] كَذَبُوا وَ صَدَقُوا قَالَ السَّائِلُ يَا ابْنَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ مَا مَعْنَى قَوْلِكَ كَذَبُوا وَ صَدَقُوا قَالَ كَذَبُوا بِمَعْنًى وَ صَدَقُوا بِمَعْنًى كَذَبُوا فِي قَوْلِهِمْ الْمُسْلِمُونَ هُمْ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ الَّذِينَ يُوَحِّدُونَ اللَّهَ وَ يُقِرُّونَ بِالنَّبِيِّ ع عَلَى مَا هُمْ فِيهِ مِنَ النَّقْصِ فِي دِينِهِمْ وَ التَّفْرِيطِ فِيهِ وَ صَدَقُوا فِي أَنَّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْهُمْ مِنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ إِنْ لَمْ يُنَاسِبُوهُ وَ ذَلِكَ لِقِيَامِهِمْ بِشَرَائِطِ الْقُرْآنِ لَا عَلَى أَنَّهُمْ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ الَّذِينَ أَذْهَبَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمُ الرِّجْسَ وَ طَهَّرَهُمْ تَطْهِيراً[6] فَمَنْ قَامَ بِشَرَائِطِ الْقُرْآنِ وَ كَانَ مُتَّبِعاً لآِلِ مُحَمَّدٍ ع فَهُوَ مِنْ مِنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَلَى التَّوَلِّي‌[7] لَهُمْ وَ إِنْ بَعُدَتْ نِسْبَتُهُ مِنْ نِسْبَةِ مُحَمَّدٍ ص قَالَ السَّائِلُ أَخْبِرْنِي مَا تِلْكَ الشَّرَائِطُ جَعَلَنِيَ اللَّهُ فِدَاكَ الَّتِي مَنْ حَفِظَهَا وَ قَامَ بِهَا كَانَ بِذَلِكَ الْمَعْنَى مِنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ فَقَالَ الْقِيَامُ بِشَرَائِطِ الْقُرْآنِ وَ الِاتِّبَاعُ لِآِلِ مُحَمَّدٍ ص فَمَنْ تَوَلَّاهُمْ‌[1] وَ قَدَّمَهُمْ عَلَى جَمِيعِ الْخَلْقِ كَمَا قَدَّمَهُمْ اللَّهُ مِنْ قَرَابَةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ص فَهُوَ مِنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَلَى هَذَا الْمَعْنَى وَ كَذَلِكَ حُكْمُ اللَّهِ فِي كِتَابِهِ فَقَالَ جَلَّ ثَنَاؤُهُ-[2] وَ مَنْ يَتَوَلَّهُمْ مِنْكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ‌ وَ قَالَ يَحْكِي قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ‌[3] فَمَنْ تَبِعَنِي فَإِنَّهُ مِنِّي وَ مَنْ عَصانِي فَإِنَّكَ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ‌ وَ قَالَ فِي الْيَهُودِ يَحْكِي قَوْلَ-[4] الَّذِينَ قالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَهِدَ إِلَيْنا أَلَّا نُؤْمِنَ لِرَسُولٍ حَتَّى يَأْتِيَنا بِقُرْبانٍ تَأْكُلُهُ النَّارُ قَالَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ لِنَبِيِّهِ-[5] قُلْ قَدْ جاءَكُمْ رُسُلٌ مِنْ قَبْلِي بِالْبَيِّناتِ وَ بِالَّذِي قُلْتُمْ فَلِمَ قَتَلْتُمُوهُمْ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ صادِقِينَ‌ وَ قَالَ فِي مَوْضِعٍ آخَرَ[6] قُلْ فَلِمَ تَقْتُلُونَ أَنْبِياءَ اللَّهِ مِنْ قَبْلُ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ مُؤْمِنِينَ‌ وَ إِنَّمَا نَزَلَ‌[7] هَذَا فِي قَوْمٍ مِنَ الْيَهُودِ كَانُوا عَلَى عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ص‌[8] فَلَمْ يَقْتُلُوا هُمْ الْأَنْبِيَاءَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ وَ لَا كَانُوا فِي زَمَانِهِمْ وَ لَكِنْ قَتَلَهُمْ أَسْلَافُهُمُ وَ رَضُوا هُمْ‌[9] بِفِعْلِهِمْ وَ تَوَلَّوْهُمْ عَلَى ذَلِكَ فَأَضَافَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ إِلَيْهِمْ فِعْلَهُمْ وَ جَعَلَهُمْ مِنْهُمْ لِاتِّبَاعِهِمْ إِيَّاهُمْ قَالَ السَّائِلُ أَعْطِنِي جَعَلَنِيَ اللَّهُ فِدَاكَ حُجَّةً مِنْ كِتَابِ اللَّهِ أَسْتَدِلُّ بِهَا عَلَى أَنَّ آلَ مُحَمَّدٍ هُمْ أَهْلُ بَيْتِهِ خَاصَّةً دُونَ غَيْرِهِمْ قَالَ نَعَمْ قَالَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ وَ هُوَ أَصْدَقُ الْقَائِلِينَ‌ إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفى‌ آدَمَ وَ نُوحاً وَ آلَ إِبْراهِيمَ وَ آلَ عِمْرانَ عَلَى الْعالَمِينَ‌ ثُمَّ بَيَّنَ مَنْ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَاهُمْ فَقَالَ-[11] ذُرِّيَّةً بَعْضُها مِنْ بَعْضٍ وَ اللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ‌ وَ لَا تَكُونُ ذُرِّيَّةُ الْقَوْمِ إِلَّا نَسْلَهُمْ وَ قَالَ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ-[12] اعْمَلُوا آلَ داوُدَ شُكْراً-

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4 minutes ago, Cool said:

خْبِرْنِي عَنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ ص مَنْ هُمْ قَالَ هُمْ أَهْلُ بَيْتِهِ خَاصَّةً

I don't see what irrelevant point you're trying to make, but we accept this understanding.  

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8 minutes ago, Zaidism said:

The non-existence of the number 12 has been established

Go back & see what Al-Khoei said. You already quoted him and here is what you have quoted on page 1:

Khoei, in his book Sirat al-Najat 2/452:

يقول الخوئي: الروايات المتواترة الواصلة إلينا من طريق العامة والخاصة قد حددت الأئمة عليهم السلام باثني عشر من ناحية العدد ولم تحددهم بأسمائهم عليهم السلام واحداً بعد واحد، حتى لا يمكن فرض الشك في الإمام اللاحق بعد رحلة الإمام السابق، بل قد تقتضي المصلحة في ذلك الزمان اختفاءه والتستر عليه لدى الناس؛ بل لدى أصحابهم عليهم السلام إلا أصحاب السر لهم، وقد اتفقت هذه القضية في غير هذا المورد والله العالم

453  كتاب صراط النجاة ج2 ص

Al Khoei says : The authentic mutawatir narrations that reached us through the public (’Ammah - Mainstream Muslims) and private (Khassah – Twelver Shia) paths have defined the imams, peace be upon them, to twelve in terms of number and did not specify them by their names, peace be upon them one by one, so that suspicion cannot be imposed on the later Imam after the previous Imam's journey, but it may require interest at that time that he hid and concealed it among the people. But among their companions, peace be upon them, except those who have the secret for them and this issue has been agreed upon in other than this resource. Sirat al-Najat 2, p. 452-3

Your own quote has collapsed your argument. We don't even bother to prove this figure of 12, it is mutawatir in various ahadith both in shi'i & sunni books. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cool said:

Your own quote has collapsed your argument. We don't even bother to prove this figure of 12, it is mutawatir in various ahadith both in shi'i & sunni books. 

 

My friend, I am well aware of the arguments that I am making. They are systematic arguments, we first began with you and your friends claiming that the Imams were mentioned by name and number.

We established the erroneous nature of such a claim, by highlighting the ignorance of the closest companions and family members of the Imams over who the following Imam is; to top the argument, I shared this honest statement from Sayyid Khoei which concedes to that point - Imams not being mentioned by name. 

After that point was established we moved on to further examine this number 12, and upon further examination we see that it has no real existence before the purported occultation of the twelfth imam. Insha'Allah that is clear. 

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21 minutes ago, Zaidism said:

I don't see what irrelevant point you're trying to make, but we accept this understanding.  

Ok, then here is another piece of information which you should accept:

 (تفسير الصافي ج4 ص238 )قال:

"{ثُمَّ أَورَثنَا الكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصطَفَينَا مِن عِبَادِنَا}(فاطر:32) يعني العترة الطاهرة خاصة فَمِنهُم ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفسِهِ( لا يعرف إمام زمانه) وَمِنهُم مُّقتَصِدٌ (يعرف الإمام )وَمِنهُم سَابِقٌ بِالخَيرَاتِ بِإِذنِ اللَّهِ (هو الإمام )ثم قال في (البصائر) عن الباقر (عليه السلام) :هي في ولد علي وفاطمة (عليهما السلام).

وفي (الكافي) عنه (عليه السلام) قال: السابق بالخيرات الإمام والمقتصد العارف للإمام والظالم لنفسه الذي لا يعرف الإمام وعن الكاظم (عليه السلام) أنه تلا هذه الآية قال فنحن الذين اصطفانا الله تعالى عز وجل وأورثنا هذا الكتاب فيه تبيان كل شيء..)

وفي (الميزان ج17 ص144): وقيل - وهو المأثور عن الصادقين (عليهما السلام) في روايات كثيرة مستفيضة - ان المراد بهم ذرية النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم من أولاد فاطمة عليها السلام وهم الداخلون في آل إبراهيم في قوله تعالى: (إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصطَفَى آدَمَ وَنُوحاً وَآلَ إِبرَاهِيمَ )) (آل عمران:33) وقد نص النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله) على علمهم بالقرآن وإصابة نظرهم فيه وملازمتهم إياه بقوله في الحديث المتواتر المتفق عليه {إني تارك فيكم الثقلين كتاب الله وعترتي أهل بيتي لن يفترقا حتى يردا علي الحوض}.

وقال بعد ذلك ويحتمل أن يكون الضمير منهم راجع إلى عبادنا - من غير إفادة الإضافة للتشريف - فيكون قوله (( فَمِنهُم )) مفيداً للتعليل، والمعنى إنما أورثنا الكتاب بعض عبادنا وهم المصطفون لا جميع العباد لأن من عبادنا من هو ظالم لنفسه ومنهم مقتصد ومنهم سابق ولا يصلح الكل للوراثة

Case closed..

 

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5 minutes ago, Zaidism said:

After that point was established we moved on to further examine this number 12, and upon further examination we see that it has no real existence before the purported occultation of the twelfth imam. Insha'Allah that is clear. 

In other words, after that you just take the support of your conjectures. No evidence whatsoever to prove your point. 

That's where the weakness lies in your argument. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Cool said:

No evidence whatsoever to prove your point.

I am not making a claim for evidence, you are. I just did the work for you, to show that the evidence that you ought to bring isn't present. 

The onus on you, the claimant, is to substantiate your belief in 12 Imams that is particular to you only. You have demonstrated the inability to do so, now you are claiming that there isn't evidence to prove my point.

What are you trying to say?

'There isn't evidence to support my claim, which is: there isn't evidence'.

You're already nailed into the coffin, what we're doing now is digging the hole for your grave, and the hole has gotten exceedingly deep. 

Edited by Zaidism
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23 minutes ago, Zaidism said:

You have demonstrated the inability to do so, now you are claiming that there isn't evidence to prove my point.

:hahaha: I think this is your acceptance, your failure to grasp the evidences provided on this thread in confirming the number 12. The names of first & the last of those 12 are also provided from reliable sources.

12 Naqeebs & 12 months from Shia sources, 12 caliphs from Shi'i & Sunni sources. 

Still your complaint is that we have not demonstrated any evidence confirming the # 12. 

Well keep going my friend, you have to end up on the 12th Imam, may Allah hastens his appearance, he will tell you himself his number. 

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1 minute ago, Cool said:

12 Naqeebs

Refuted.

2 minutes ago, Cool said:

12 months from Shia  twelver sources

You can't seriously consider this an argument?

2 minutes ago, Cool said:

12 caliphs

Refuted exceedingly.

4 minutes ago, Cool said:

 The names of first & the last of those 12 are also provided from reliable sources.

Refuted.

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29 minutes ago, Zaidism said:

You're already nailed into the coffin, what we're doing now is digging the hole for your grave, and the hole has gotten exceedingly deep. 

:hahaha: Ohh I am being buried!!!!

Perhaps you will pour the tons of evidences provided to you on this thread on my grave instead of accepting them. 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Zaidism said:

You excluded the Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) from your calculation.

Oh I have come to know how the people keep their eyes closed from the truth as it is due to the hearts that are  blind not the eyes alone.

Sura Al Ikhlas describing Tauheed / Oneness of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has 47 alphabets in its 4 verses

Sura Muhammad has been placed at sr no 47

Verse of Purification / tatheer (33:33) has 47 alphabets, The arabic text provides the evidence that the text has been structured using exactly 14 Alphabets that have dots.

Why all these point towards 47?

The answer comes in that there  are 13 Ahl allabayt of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) memebers covered by this verse including 1 woman Fatima Alzahra s.a.a and 12 Imams (عليه السلام). Their names have total 47 alphabets.

The structured text of verses of Quran confirms this truth. This is the undeniable proof of hadith Thaqlyn and 13 members of ahl albayat (عليه السلام) as mentioned.

المر ۚ تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ ۗ وَالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ الْحَقُّ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Alif, Lam, Meem, Ra. These are the verses of the Book; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord is the truth, but most of the people do not believe. (13:1)

أَفَمَن يَعْلَمُ أَنَّمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ الْحَقُّ كَمَنْ هُوَ أَعْمَىٰ ۚ إِنَّمَا يَتَذَكَّرُ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ

Then is he who knows that what has been revealed to you from your Lord is the truth like one who is blind? They will only be reminded who are people of understanding - (13:19)

وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَآمَنُوا بِمَا نُزِّلَ عَلَىٰ مُحَمَّدٍ وَهُوَ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ ۙ كَفَّرَ عَنْهُمْ سَيِّئَاتِهِمْ وَأَصْلَحَ بَالَهُمْ

And those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what has been sent down upon Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He will remove from them their misdeeds and amend their condition. (47:2)

ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا اتَّبَعُوا الْبَاطِلَ وَأَنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّبَعُوا الْحَقَّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ لِلنَّاسِ أَمْثَالَهُمْ

That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does Allah present to the people their comparisons. (47:3)

أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ أَمْ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبٍ أَقْفَالُهَا

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an, or are there locks upon [their] hearts? (47:24)

ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ

That is [deserved by them] because Allah has sent down the Book in truth. And indeed, those who differ over the Book are in extreme dissension. (2:176)

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
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Posted (edited)

One can practically prove anything with esoteric numerology, and etymology. 

In conclusion, there is no designation, and the sons of the Imams (and the imams) were zaydis.

Edited by Zaidism
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Posted (edited)

1.  The two sources of the religion include verses of quran and sayings of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and 12 Imams from his pure progeny. Many verses of quran describe the presence of representatives chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) including prophets, caliphs, imams, leader, successors etc for the guidance  of the people. The same conclusion has already been made in earlier threads where Zaydis have failed to prove their views by verses of quran. The shortsighted view of zaydis  without justification by the verses of quran regarding  the matter of imamat of 12 Imams is rejected . They were only able to present only 05 verses of quran in comparison to 92 verses presented by followers of 12 imams. Also in this  thread the count of verses of quran presented by zaydis is  04 and followers of 12 imams have clarified confidently their view again by 22 verses of quran.

2.    There are many hadith presented in the  threads by the followers of 12 imams for the confirmation of the names and count of 12 imams both from shia and sunni sources but as it does not suit to the false belief of zaydis about imams chosen by the people, the matter has not been given a thought with open eyes.

From the last thread zaydis were only able to bring only 07 hadith for their belief justification but followers of 12 imams have  destroyed their view by mentioning the hadith count of 31 nos. In this thread hadith presented by zaydis is 04 while followers of 12 imams have defended their views by 15 hadith of the prophet and imams. This is again confirmation of lack of understanding of Zaydis  about view on 12 imams chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) from Ahl alabayt of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

The following links can also be seen :

3.   if any one goes against the path of 12 imams  from Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) of prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), instead of following them (even his son) then he is quoted likewise  “Amal Ghair Saleh” (work other than righteous) by the example of son of prophet Nuh (عليه السلام). mentioned in the verses of quran. Zaydis qiyas that if some sons of imams were followers of zaydis fiqh then their supposition that Imams from progeny of the prophet were zayfis has already been refuted by the verses of quran.

(11:45)  وَنَادَىٰ نُوحٌ رَبَّهُ فَقَالَ رَبِّ إِنَّ ابْنِي مِنْ أَهْلِي وَإِنَّ وَعْدَكَ الْحَقُّ وَأَنْتَ أَحْكَمُ الْحَاكِمِينَ

45  And Noah (Nuh) called to his Lord and said, “My Lord, indeed my son is of my family; and indeed, Your promise is true; and You are the most just of judges!

(11:46)  قَالَ يَا نُوحُ إِنَّهُ لَيْسَ مِنْ أَهْلِكَ ۖ إِنَّهُ عَمَلٌ غَيْرُ صَالِحٍ ۖ فَلَا تَسْأَلْنِ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ ۖ إِنِّي أَعِظُكَ أَنْ تَكُونَ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ

46  He said, “O Noah (Nuh), indeed he is not of your family; indeed, he is [one whose] work was other than righteous, so ask Me not for that about which you have no knowledge. Indeed, I advise you, lest you be among the ignorant.

The link can be seen as given below:

4.   Moreover There is always a high level research is made to validate the facts (about ahl llbayt (عليه السلام) including Fatima saa and 12 Imams) as per many hadith including hadith thaqlyn quran and Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام) are never separated. The research quoted above for these provide the evidence that there is no path other than path of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and 12 Imams that is pure inline with the verses of quran. The link is given below:

 

5.   From the First five verses of Sura Albaqra I  quote as given below:

الم

ذَٰلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ

الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ

وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِالْآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ

أُولَٰئِكَ عَلَىٰ هُدًى مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ

Alif, Lam, Meem. This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).

Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them.

And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.

These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful. (2:2 - 5)

The Quran mentions the Word La Raib لَا رَيْبَ in the following verses:

 

٢_٢  ذَٰلِكَ ٱلْكِتَٰبُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًۭى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ

٣_٩  رَبَّنَآ إِنَّكَ جَامِعُ ٱلنَّاسِ لِيَوْمٍۢ لَّا رَيْبَ فِيهِ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يُخْلِفُ ٱلْمِيعَادَ

٣_٢٥       فَكَيْفَ إِذَا جَمَعْنَٰهُمْ لِيَوْمٍۢلَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ وَوُفِّيَتْ كُلُّ نَفْسٍۢ مَّا كَسَبَتْ وَهُمْ لَا يُظْلَمُونَ

٤_٨٧       ٱللَّهُ لَآ إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ لَيَجْمَعَنَّكُمْ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ ٱلْقِيَٰمَةِلَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ ۗ وَمَنْ أَصْدَقُ مِنَ ٱللَّهِ حَدِيثًۭا

٦_١٢       قُل لِّمَن مَّا فِى ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ ۖ قُل لِّلَّهِ ۚ كَتَبَ عَلَىٰ نَفْسِهِ ٱلرَّحْمَةَ ۚ لَيَجْمَعَنَّكُمْ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ ٱلْقِيَٰمَةِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ ۚ ٱلَّذِينَ خَسِرُوٓا۟ أَنفُسَهُمْ فَهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

١٠_٣٧     وَمَا كَانَ هَٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانُ أَن يُفْتَرَىٰ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ ٱلَّذِى بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ ٱلْكِتَٰبِلَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ مِن رَّبِّ ٱلْعَٰلَمِينَ

١٧_٩٩     ۞ أَوَلَمْ يَرَوْا۟ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضَ قَادِرٌ عَلَىٰٓ أَن يَخْلُقَ مِثْلَهُمْ وَجَعَلَ لَهُمْ أَجَلًۭا لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ فَأَبَى ٱلظَّٰلِمُونَ إِلَّا كُفُورًۭا

١٨_٢١     وَكَذَٰلِكَ أَعْثَرْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ لِيَعْلَمُوٓا۟ أَنَّ وَعْدَ ٱللَّهِ حَقٌّۭ وَأَنَّ ٱلسَّاعَةَ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهَآ إِذْ يَتَنَٰزَعُونَ بَيْنَهُمْ أَمْرَهُمْ ۖ فَقَالُوا۟ ٱبْنُوا۟ عَلَيْهِم بُنْيَٰنًۭا ۖ رَّبُّهُمْ أَعْلَمُ بِهِمْ ۚ قَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ غَلَبُوا۟ عَلَىٰٓ أَمْرِهِمْ لَنَتَّخِذَنَّ عَلَيْهِم مَّسْجِدًۭا

٢٢_٧       وَأَنَّ ٱلسَّاعَةَ ءَاتِيَةٌۭ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهَا وَأَنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَبْعَثُ مَن فِى ٱلْقُبُورِ

٣٢_٢       تَنزِيلُ ٱلْكِتَٰبِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ مِن رَّبِّ ٱلْعَٰلَمِينَ

٤٠_٥٩     إِنَّ ٱلسَّاعَةَ لَءَاتِيَةٌۭ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهَا وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ ٱلنَّاسِ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

٤٢_٧       وَكَذَٰلِكَ أَوْحَيْنَآ إِلَيْكَ قُرْءَانًا عَرَبِيًّۭا لِّتُنذِرَ أُمَّ ٱلْقُرَىٰ وَمَنْ حَوْلَهَا وَتُنذِرَ يَوْمَ ٱلْجَمْعِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ ۚ فَرِيقٌۭ فِى ٱلْجَنَّةِ وَفَرِيقٌۭ فِى ٱلسَّعِيرِ

٤٥_٢٦     قُلِ ٱللَّهُ يُحْيِيكُمْ ثُمَّ يُمِيتُكُمْ ثُمَّ يَجْمَعُكُمْ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ ٱلْقِيَٰمَةِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ ٱلنَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ

٤٥_٣٢     وَإِذَا قِيلَ إِنَّ وَعْدَ ٱللَّهِ حَقٌّۭ وَٱلسَّاعَةُ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهَا قُلْتُم مَّا نَدْرِى مَا ٱلسَّاعَةُ إِن نَّظُنُّ إِلَّا ظَنًّۭا وَمَا نَحْنُ بِمُسْتَيْقِنِينَ

 

٢_٢  ذَٰلِكَ ٱلْكِتَٰبُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًۭى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ

This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).

As per hadith thaqylan Ahl labayt (عليه السلام) 9fatima AlZahra & 12 Imams) are never separated from the quran thus they are also without any doubt.  The total count of these words لَا رَيْبَ  is 14. These are mentioned exactly in 14 verses. This is the manner Quran has preserved the truth about 14 Infallible. For those who deny quran and them (14 Infallible) the quran provides the following:

٢_٢٣       وَإِن كُنتُمْ فِى رَيْبٍۢ مِّمَّا نَزَّلْنَا عَلَىٰ عَبْدِنَا فَأْتُوا۟ بِسُورَةٍۢ مِّن مِّثْلِهِۦ وَٱدْعُوا۟ شُهَدَآءَكُم مِّن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ إِن كُنتُمْ صَٰدِقِينَ

002:023 And if you are in doubt concerning what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a surah like it, and invoke your helpers besides Allah, if you are truthful.

6.   أُولَٰئِكَ عَلَىٰ هُدًى مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ

The following verses of quran mention the word ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ:

٢_٥      أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ عَلَىٰ هُدًۭى مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٣_١٠٤  وَلْتَكُن مِّنكُمْ أُمَّةٌۭ يَدْعُونَ إِلَى ٱلْخَيْرِ وَيَأْمُرُونَ بِٱلْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ ٱلْمُنكَرِ ۚ وَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٧_٨      وَٱلْوَزْنُ يَوْمَئِذٍ ٱلْحَقُّ ۚ فَمَن ثَقُلَتْ مَوَٰزِينُهُۥ فَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٧_١٥٧  ٱلَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ ٱلرَّسُولَ ٱلنَّبِىَّ ٱلْأُمِّىَّ ٱلَّذِى يَجِدُونَهُۥ مَكْتُوبًا عِندَهُمْ فِى ٱلتَّوْرَىٰةِ وَٱلْإِنجِيلِ يَأْمُرُهُم بِٱلْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَىٰهُمْ عَنِ ٱلْمُنكَرِ وَيُحِلُّ لَهُمُ ٱلطَّيِّبَٰتِ وَيُحَرِّمُ عَلَيْهِمُ ٱلْخَبَٰٓئِثَ وَيَضَعُ عَنْهُمْ إِصْرَهُمْ وَٱلْأَغْلَٰلَ ٱلَّتِى كَانَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ فَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ بِهِۦ وَعَزَّرُوهُ وَنَصَرُوهُ وَٱتَّبَعُوا۟ ٱلنُّورَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أُنزِلَ مَعَهُۥٓ ۙ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٩_٨٨    لَٰكِنِ ٱلرَّسُولُ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ مَعَهُۥ جَٰهَدُوا۟ بِأَمْوَٰلِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ ۚ وَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ لَهُمُ ٱلْخَيْرَٰتُ ۖ وَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٢٣_١٠٢            فَمَن ثَقُلَتْ مَوَٰزِينُهُۥ فَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٢٤_٥١  إِنَّمَا كَانَ قَوْلَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِذَا دُعُوٓا۟ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِۦ لِيَحْكُمَ بَيْنَهُمْ أَن يَقُولُوا۟ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا ۚ وَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٣٠_٣٨  فَـَٔاتِ ذَا ٱلْقُرْبَىٰ حَقَّهُۥ وَٱلْمِسْكِينَ وَٱبْنَ ٱلسَّبِيلِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌۭ لِّلَّذِينَ يُرِيدُونَ وَجْهَ ٱللَّهِ ۖ وَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٣١_٥    أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ عَلَىٰ هُدًۭى مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٥٨_٢٢  لَّا تَجِدُ قَوْمًۭا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْءَاخِرِ يُوَآدُّونَ مَنْ حَآدَّ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُۥ وَلَوْ كَانُوٓا۟ ءَابَآءَهُمْ أَوْ أَبْنَآءَهُمْ أَوْ إِخْوَٰنَهُمْ أَوْ عَشِيرَتَهُمْ ۚ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ كَتَبَ فِى قُلُوبِهِمُ ٱلْإِيمَٰنَ وَأَيَّدَهُم بِرُوحٍۢ مِّنْهُ ۖ وَيُدْخِلُهُمْ جَنَّٰتٍۢ تَجْرِى مِن تَحْتِهَا ٱلْأَنْهَٰرُ خَٰلِدِينَ فِيهَا ۚ رَضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَرَضُوا۟ عَنْهُ ۚ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ حِزْبُ ٱللَّهِ ۚ أَلَآ إِنَّ حِزْبَ ٱللَّهِ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٥٩_٩    وَٱلَّذِينَ تَبَوَّءُو ٱلدَّارَ وَٱلْإِيمَٰنَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ يُحِبُّونَ مَنْ هَاجَرَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَلَا يَجِدُونَ فِى صُدُورِهِمْ حَاجَةًۭ مِّمَّآ أُوتُوا۟ وَيُؤْثِرُونَ عَلَىٰٓ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَلَوْ كَانَ بِهِمْ خَصَاصَةٌۭ ۚ وَمَن يُوقَ شُحَّ نَفْسِهِۦ فَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

٦٤_١٦  فَٱتَّقُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ مَا ٱسْتَطَعْتُمْ وَٱسْمَعُوا۟ وَأَطِيعُوا۟ وَأَنفِقُوا۟ خَيْرًۭا لِّأَنفُسِكُمْ ۗ وَمَن يُوقَ شُحَّ نَفْسِهِۦ فَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

The word ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ has been mentioned in entire verses of Quran exactly 12 times. This is another evidence of hadith thaqlyn and 12 Imams and in the light of hadith thaqlyn and other hadith their followers will be successful on the day of judgment.

Muflehun? ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

The following research confirms the above statement:

٥٨_٢٢  لَّا تَجِدُ قَوْمًۭا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْءَاخِرِ يُوَآدُّونَ مَنْ حَآدَّ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُۥ وَلَوْ كَانُوٓا۟ ءَابَآءَهُمْ أَوْ أَبْنَآءَهُمْ أَوْ إِخْوَٰنَهُمْ أَوْ عَشِيرَتَهُمْ ۚ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ كَتَبَ فِى قُلُوبِهِمُ ٱلْإِيمَٰنَ وَأَيَّدَهُم بِرُوحٍۢ مِّنْهُ ۖ وَيُدْخِلُهُمْ جَنَّٰتٍۢ تَجْرِى مِن تَحْتِهَا ٱلْأَنْهَٰرُ خَٰلِدِينَ فِيهَا ۚ رَضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَرَضُوا۟ عَنْهُ ۚ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ حِزْبُ ٱللَّهِ ۚ أَلَآ إِنَّ حِزْبَ ٱللَّهِ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

The verses mentions that حِزْبَ ٱللَّهِ  They are Allah’s confederates. Look! The confederates of Allah are indeed felicitous!

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ ٱللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُۥ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ ٱلَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَهُمْ رَٰكِعُونَ

005:055 Your guardian is only Allah, His Messenger, and the faithful who maintain the prayer and give the zakat while bowing down.

وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُۥ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ ٱللَّهِ هُمُ ٱلْغَٰلِبُونَ

005:056 Whoever takes for his guardians Allah, His Messenger and the faithful [should know that] the confederates of Allah are indeed the victorious.

Thus the above discussion confirms that the followers of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and 11 Imams after him are the felicitous ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ.

The complete details can be seen at the following link;

 

7.  Followers of 12 Imams from Ahl albayat (عليه السلام)  have presented the conclusion and the necessary evidences.

وَقُلْ جَاءَ الْحَقُّ وَزَهَقَ الْبَاطِلُ ۚ إِنَّ الْبَاطِلَ كَانَ زَهُوقًا

And say: The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing). (17:81)

ۖ وَالسَّلَامُ عَلَىٰ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ الْهُدَىٰ

and peace is on him who follows the guidance; (20:47)

اللھم صل علی محمد و آل محمد و عجل فرجھم

Wasalam

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More subjective Quran interpretation with no Hadith that designates 9 Imams (that can be used as evidence against all Muslims), we’ve shattered the possibility of this twelve Caliph Hadith ever existing, and you can refer back to what was said about it within the thread. It’s understandable that you can circularly reason to prove twelverism to yourself, but so could the past 100+ Shia sects that seemed to have missed the 12 Caliph Hadith, and seem to have Hadiths that go back to Imam Sadiq to vindicate their belief(s). 

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We are honored & we feel pride that our Imams are from the progeny of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام),  Al-Sajjad (عليه السلام), Al-Baqir (عليه السلام), Al-Sadiq (عليه السلام), Al-Kazim (عليه السلام), Al-Riza (عليه السلام), Al-jawwad (عليه السلام), Al-Hadi (عليه السلام), Al-Askari (عليه السلام) and Al-Mehdi (عليه السلام)

These are the Divine Lights, Noorun ala Noor. 

نُّورٌ عَلَى نُورٍ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَن يَشَاء

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Posted (edited)

We do have hadith from the prophet mentioning the count and names of 12 Imams, The verses of quran prove the hadith for 12 Imams and evidences have been presnted by 12vers who are true followers of Ahl albyta.s.

أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ أَمْ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبٍ أَقْفَالُهَا

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an, or are there locks upon [their] hearts? (47:24)

ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ

That is [deserved by them] because Allah has sent down the Book in truth. And indeed, those who differ over the Book are in extreme dissension. (2:176)

فَمَن يُرِدِ اللَّهُ أَن يَهْدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلْإِسْلَامِ ۖ وَمَن يُرِدْ أَن يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاءِ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَجْعَلُ اللَّهُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Therefore (for) whomsoever Allah intends that He would guide him aright, He expands his breast for Islam, and (for) whomsoever He intends that He should cause him to err, He makes his breast strait and narrow as though he were ascending upwards; thus does Allah lay uncleanness on those who do not believe. (6:125)

wasalam

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15 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

We do have hadith from the prophet mentioning the count and names of 12 Imams, The verses of quran prove the hadith for 12 Imams and evidences have been presnted by 12vers who are true followers of Ahl albyta.s.

 

If this is what you base your faith on, you need to understand that this number 12 was non-existent before the occultation. Furthermore, it is only particular to your works, so if someone comes and says they believe in 7 Imams like the Waqefyah, or 9 Imams, or 6 Imams, and they narrate Hadiths that go back to an infallible Imam what makes your claim truer than theirs? 

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19 minutes ago, Cool said:

We are honored & we feel pride that our Imams are from the progeny of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام),  Al-Sajjad (عليه السلام), Al-Baqir (عليه السلام), Al-Sadiq (عليه السلام), Al-Kazim (عليه السلام), Al-Riza (عليه السلام), Al-jawwad (عليه السلام), Al-Hadi (عليه السلام), Al-Askari (عليه السلام) and Al-Mehdi (عليه السلام)

These are the Divine Lights, Noorun ala Noor. 

نُّورٌ عَلَى نُورٍ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَن يَشَاء

Emotional rhetoric

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18 hours ago, Zaidism said:

If this is what you base your faith on, you need to understand that this number 12 was non-existent before the occultation. Furthermore, it is only particular to your works, so if someone comes and says they believe in 7 Imams like the Waqefyah, or 9 Imams, or 6 Imams, and they narrate Hadiths that go back to an infallible Imam what makes your claim truer than theirs? 

1.     If someone has view that the number 12 was non-existent before occultation then I mention its opinion as ridiculous since there are examples of 12 Months, 12 Springs, 12 Leaders,  12 Ameers, 12 Caliphs, 12 Imams etc in Quran & sunni & shia hadith sources. This comes as a typical example of  short sighted view of xyz sects, likewise the short-sighted view of zadiys that has already been rejected for the concept of imamate and 12 imams in this thread. The link can be seen as given below:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235071654-the-sons-of-the-imams-were-zaydis/?do=findComment&comment=3356401

2.     There is a research is made to validate the facts (about ahl allbayt (عليه السلام) including Fatima saa and 12 Imams) as per hadith thaqlya, quran and Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) are never separated. The research quoted for these provide the evidence that there is no straight path other than path of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and 12 Imams that is inline with the verses of quran. The link is given below:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235071654-the-sons-of-the-imams-were-zaydis/?do=findComment&comment=3356248

3.     12 is the count of imams that has been mentioned through the evidences from  hadith and research by the numeric of quran. These are inline and conforming to the verses of quran for understanding and accepting the truth about imamate of 12 imams.  If someone denies one of  12 imams (by taking lesser than 12 imams) then the imamate principle is denied as a whole. This is the case like that of people of the book since the Jew and Christian took earlier prophets for obeying and both denied the prophet hood of our last prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). But the quran asks them to accept the prophet hood of our prophet and follow his guidance.

 The following verses are presented:

 يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لِمَ تَلْبِسُونَ الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُونَ الْحَقَّ وَأَنْتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ

(3:71)  O People of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with falsehood, and knowingly conceal the truth?

 وَقَالَتْ طَائِفَةٌ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ آمِنُوا بِالَّذِي أُنْزِلَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَجْهَ النَّهَارِ وَاكْفُرُوا آخِرَهُ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْجِعُونَ

3:72  Some of the People of the Book say, “Believe in what was revealed to the believers at the beginning of the day, and reject it at its end, so that they may return”

  قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لِمَ تَكْفُرُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ وَاللَّهُ شَهِيدٌ عَلَىٰ مَا تَعْمَلُونَ

(3:98)  Say, “O People of the Book, why do you reject the Revelations of God, when God witnesses what you do?

  يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ قَدْ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولُنَا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُمْ كَثِيرًا مِمَّا كُنْتُمْ تُخْفُونَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَيَعْفُو عَنْ كَثِيرٍ ۚ قَدْ جَاءَكُمْ مِنَ اللَّهِ نُورٌ وَكِتَابٌ مُبِينٌ

(5:15)  O people of the Book, Our Apostle has come to you, announcing many things of the Scriptures that you have suppressed, passing over some others. To you has come light and a clear Book from God

  قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ هَلْ تَنْقِمُونَ مِنَّا إِلَّا أَنْ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنْزِلَ مِنْ قَبْلُ وَأَنَّ أَكْثَرَكُمْ فَاسِقُونَ

(5:59)  Say to them: “O people of the Book, what reason have you for disliking us other than that we believe in God and what has been sent down to us, and was sent down before, and because most of you are disobedient?”

4.    The  word imam as mentioned in the total verses of quran and their count confirmation as twelve is given below:

The word Imam has been used total 12 times in verses of the Qur'an in Arabic text (by count of  both singular and plural form). 

1.      02:124, 

2.      11:17,

3.      25:74,

4.      46:12,

5.      15:79,

6.      36:12, 

7.      17:71

8.      9:12

9.      21:73

10.    28:5

11.  . 28:41

12.  . 32:24

The above details are quite inline with hadith of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and the verses of quran thus I do not have to look towards anyone else who take whether  lesser or more than 12 imams. I follow the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and as per hadith thaqlyn Quran & Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام) including 12 imams.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
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54 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

12 Months, 12 Springs,

Imagine if I was a Waqifi; 

71:15 “Allah has created the seven heavens, one above another”

7 heavens! This clearly entails 7 Imams, heavens supersede springs, and months. Furthermore, these heavens are the 7 Imams which are: one above another i.e successorship, but it's the short-sightedness of the people that replaces heavens with springs and months, and it is only those 'short-sighted sects' that seem to think that 12 silver coins are better than 7 diamonds!

1 hour ago, Muslim2010 said:

The word Imam has been used total 12 times in verses of the Qur'an in Arabic text (by count of  both singular and plural form). 

The word(s) "امام" appears in 8 verse(s) in Quran. - link

The word(s) "أَئمة" appears in 5 verse(s) in Quran. - link

8+5 = 13, You have disproved twelver Imamate!

Furthermore, 7 is closer to 8 which means the Waqifiyah are closer to the truth!

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1 hour ago, Muslim2010 said:

1.     If someone has view that the number 12 was non-existent before occultation then I mention its opinion as ridiculous since there are examples of 12 Months, 12 Springs, 12 Leaders,  12 Ameers, 12 Caliphs, 12 Imams etc 

I think your onto something !

12 signs of zodiac

12 Olympian Greek gods

12 animals of the Chinese year.

In fact even modern times Apollo 12 landed on the moon.

 

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5 minutes ago, Ali bin Hussein said:

In fact even modern times Apollo 12 landed on the moon.

 

To add to the miracle there were 12 men who walked on the moon!

''Twelve people have walked on the Moon. Four of them are still living as of July 2021. All crewed lunar landings took place between July 1969 and December 1972 as part of the Apollo program.'' - Link

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20 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

We do have hadith from the prophet mentioning the count and names of 12 Imams

Please share. Is the hadith from our Twelver books and is it mutawatir

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zaidism said:

The word(s) "امام" appears in 8 verse(s) in Quran. - link

The word(s) "أَئمة" appears in 5 verse(s) in Quran. - link

8+5 = 13, You have disproved twelver Imamate!

Actually with all due respect, there's a mistake in the first link. You said the word "imam" appears in 8 verses, but if you see the last verse, it says "amaamah" or "أَمَامَهُ" which means "in front of him/ahead of him/to continue" and has nothing to do with imam, a'imma or imamah in general. Please be careful when you want to provide accurate information, specially when you're dealing with the Qur'an.

The case still stands. The words "imam-إمام" in singular and "a'imma-أَئمة" in plural combined appear in 12 and not in 13 verses. So... is twelver Imamate actually disproved ?

coincidence.gif

Edited by Mohamad Abdel-Hamid
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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

Actually with all due respect, there's a mistake in the first link. You said the word "imam" appears in 8 verses, but if you see the last verse, it says "amaamah" or "أَمَامَهُ" which means "in front of him/ahead of him/to continue" and has nothing to do with imam, a'imma or imamah in general. Please be careful when you want to provide accurate information, specially when you're dealing with the Qur'an.

The case still stands. The words "imam-إمام" in singular and "a'imma-أَئمة" in plural combined appear in 12 and not in 13 verses. So... is twelver Imamate actually disproved ?

coincidence.gif

Thanks for the correction brother, I shouldn’t have trusted the site. One would be reasonable in denying this as evidence for twelve Imams, especially with a stretch by adding plural and singular forms.

I would add this serves the Waqifi example more, because one would say Imamate mentioned in plural 7 times (the collective Imams) and singular 5 times (the personalities in Ayat Tathir). Of course it’s all nonsensical. 

With all honesty I’m disappointed that silence emanates in this forum when discussing key flaws in your creed.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

The case still stands. The words "imam-إمام" in singular and "a'imma-أَئمة" in plural combined appear in 12 and not in 13 verses. So... is twelver Imamate actually disproved ?

You are right brother, I have already mentioned by the  reference of verses of quran that the count of word Imam(s) in arabic text is 12 inline with the hadith presented by shia 12 vers. Thanks

Edited by Muslim2010
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Zaidism said:

The word(s) "امام" appears in 8 verse(s) in Quran. - link

The word(s) "أَئمة" appears in 5 verse(s) in Quran. - link

8+5 = 13, You have disproved twelver Imamate!

The total count of word as imam is Twelve 12 (7+5) not 13, recheck your calculation/ mistake by open eyes my brother instead of keeping the eyes closed from truth mentioned in verses of quran and hadith presented by shia 12vers :grin:

أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ أَمْ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبٍ أَقْفَالُهَا

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an, or are there locks upon [their] hearts? (47:24)

ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ

That is [deserved by them] because Allah has sent down the Book in truth. And indeed, those who differ over the Book are in extreme dissension. (2:176)

wasalam

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, User 313 said:

Please share. Is the hadith from our Twelver books and is it mutawatir

I mention the following links for the hadith for the names of 12 Imams from the purified Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام) of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم):

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235057350-hadiths-on-12-imams-in-shia-sources/?do=findComment&comment=3140224

H no. 17, 5 & 6, "100 Virtues of Imam Ali and his Sons"

https://ia801900.us.archive.org/33/items/100-virtues-of-ali-ibn-abi-talib-and-his-sons/100_Virtues_of_Ali_Ibn_Abi_Talib_And_his_sons.pdf

https://ziyaraat.net/books/100virtuesofimamali.pdf

40 authentic hadith may be seen at the following link for count & names of 12 imams

https://ar.pdf.lib.eshia.ir/97233/1/1

wasalam

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2 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

The total count of word as imam is Twelve 12 (7+5)

I had in mind there would be some desperate attempts, but this level of desperation I did not expect. 

2 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

40 authentic hadith may be seen at the following link for count & names of 12 imams

The impossibility of this narrative has been highlighted within the thread, the genuine reader can conclude: (As Sayyid Khoei mentions) - No mention of any of the twelve Imams names; and upon further investigation no indication of a Hadith whatsoever that designates 12 Caliphs/Imams generally. Otherwise, you wouldn't have these many sects dispersing which believe in 6,7,8,9,11 Imams and each one of their final Imams being the Mahdi who has gone into occultation! SubhanAllah, what a coincidence the twelvers would say the same thing, and go on to add a convenient 12 Caliph solitary report, narrated by an Ummayad that contradicts itself in the Matn, and above all that is never once used by the Imammiyah! Up until the belief in a 12th Imam enters their theology, how convenient that the Hadith miraculously comes up. 

Furthermore, if their names are mentioned, as well as their number; why are Al-Taq and Hisham confused as to who the next Imam is? Wasn't he teaching Imam Zayd a moment ago who the Imams were, where did this sudden ignorance come from?!

حمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن أبي يحيى الواسطي، عن هشام بن سالم قال: كنا بالمدينة بعد وفات أبي عبد الله عليه السلام أنا وصاحب الطاق والناس مجتمعون على عبد الله بن جعفر انه صاحب الامر بعد أبيه، فدخلنا عليه أنا وصاحب الطاق والناس عنده وذلك أنهم رووا عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام أنه قال: إن الامر في الكبير ما لم تكن به عاهة، فدخلنا عليه نسأله عما كنا نسأل عنه أباه، فسألناه عن الزكاة في كم تجب؟ فقال: في مائتين خمسة، فقلنا: ففي مائة؟ فقال: درهمان ونصف فقلنا: والله ما تقول المرجئة هذا، قال: فرفع يده إلى السماء فقال: والله ما أدري ما تقول المرجئة، قال: فخرجنا من عنده ضلالا لا ندري إلى أين نتوجه أنا وأبو جعفر الأحول، فقعدنا في بعض أزقة المدينة باكين حيارى لا ندري إلى أين نتوجه ولا من نقصد؟ ونقول: إلى المرجئة؟ إلى القدرية؟ إلى الزيدية؟ إلى المعتزلة؟

Source: http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1122_الكافي-الشيخ-الكليني-ج-١/الصفحة_399
 

The Hadith goes as follows: We were in Madina (Hashim bin Salem is narrating this) I, and Al-Taq. The people were gathered over Abdullah son Ja'far, as he was presumed to be the Imam after his father, I and Al-Taq entered upon him and the people were testing him...  so we entered upon him asking him what we were asking his father about, so we asked him about how much zakat is due? He said: In two hundred, five. We said: In a hundred? He said: Two and a half dirhams. We said: By God, what do the Murji’ah say? He said: So he raised his hand to the sky and said: By God, I do not know what the Murji’ah says. He said: So we left him and were astray, not knowing where to go, I and Al-Taq, so we sat in some of the alleys of Madinah crying and bewildered. We do not know where to head, or who to refer to and we sat questioning: (do we go) To the Murji’ah? to the Qadriyyah? To the Zaydiyyah? To the Mu'tazila? [Al-Kafi: 1/399]

What one can infer from this Hadith that fundamentally destroys this fake narrative you're painting of 12 Imams being designated and everyone knowing them:

  • Hisham bin Salem and Al-Taq claimed to be the most reliable companions of Imam Al-Sadiq by twelvers do not know who the Imam is after Imam Sadiq
  • Al-Taq was teaching Imam Zayd who the Imam was, but now he is confused?!
  • The people that were gathered weren't ordinary individuals, they were reputable scholars, and jurists of the Imammiyah
  • Al-Taq and Hisham professed that they were misguided after the death of Imam Al-Sadiq, this entails that no sane person would come and say the Imams were designated by name, and number, especially by name. 
  • Hisham and Al-Taq did test him, so they entertained the possibility of him being the Imam.
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14 hours ago, Zaidism said:

The impossibility of this narrative has been highlighted within the thread, the genuine reader can conclude: (As

The false assumption by taking the words of few scholars out of context has already been discarded earlier in this thread. :grin:

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14 hours ago, Zaidism said:

The Hadith goes as follows: We were in Madina (Hashim bin Salem is narrating this) I, and Al-Taq. The people were gathered over Abdullah son Ja'far, as he was presumed to be the Imam after his father, I and Al-Taq entered upon him and the people were testing him...  so we entered upon him asking him what we were asking his father about, so we asked him about how much zakat is due? He said: In two hundred, five. We said: In a hundred? He said: Two and a half dirhams. We said: By God, what do the Murji’ah say? He said: So he raised his hand to the sky and said: By God, I do not know what the Murji’ah says. He said: So we left him and were astray, not knowing where to go, I and Al-Taq, so we sat in some of the alleys of Madinah crying and bewildered. We do not know where to head, or who to refer to and we sat questioning: (do we go) To the Murji’ah? to the Qadriyyah? To the Zaydiyyah? To the Mu'tazila? [Al-Kafi: 1/399]

What one can infer from this Hadith that fundamentally destroys this fake narrative you're painting of 12 Imams being designated and everyone knowing them:

  • Hisham bin Salem and Al-Taq claimed to be the most reliable companions of Imam Al-Sadiq by twelvers do not know who the Imam is after Imam Sadiq
  • Al-Taq was teaching Imam Zayd who the Imam was, but now he is confused?!
  • The people that were gathered weren't ordinary individuals, they were reputable scholars, and jurists of the Imammiyah
  • Al-Taq and Hisham professed that they were misguided after the death of Imam Al-Sadiq, this entails that no sane person would come and say the Imams were designated by name, and number, especially by name. 
  • Hisham and Al-Taq did test him, so they entertained the possibility of him being the Imam.

The following is the translation of hadith taken from Alkafi, Vol 1, part 4:

H 927, Ch. 81, h 7

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from abu Yahya al- Wasiti fromt Hisham ibn Salim who has said the following. "We were in Madina after abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) left this world. People had gathered around ‘Abdallah ibn Ja'far thinking that he was the in charge of this task (Leadership with Divine Authority) after his father. I and Sahib al-Taq went to see him while people were around him because of a hadith that they would narrate from abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) that said, "The in charge of the task (Leadership with Divine Authority) will the eldest son if he would not suffer any defects. We went to see and ask him what we used to ask his father. We asked him about Zakat to find out on how much property it becomes due. He said, "It becomes as five on every two hundred." We askked, "What if it would one hundred?" He said, "It will be two and a half." We then said, "By Allah, al-Murji‘a sect does not say so." The narrator has said that he raised his hands to the sky and said, "By Allah, I do not know what the al-Murji‘a group says." The narrator has said that we then left his with a feeling of loss and did not know where to go. I and abu Ja'far al-Ahwal were together. We sat down on an street corner of the city of Madina weeping and confused and did not know where and to who should we go saying to each other, "Where would go now. Should we go al-Murji‘, al-Qadria, (belief in predestination), to al-Zaydiaya sect, al-Mu‘tazila or the al-Khawarij sect?" at this time I saw a gentleman who I did not know, gesture towards me with his hand. I became afraid and though he might be a spy of the spies of abu Ja'far al-Mansur. He had his spies in Madina to see who the Shi‘a would follow abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) and then they would cut his neck off. I was afraid thinking that he might be one of them. I then said to al-Ahwal, "Get away from here because I am afraid for both of us.

He only wants me and not you. Move away from me not to get destroyed and become an instrument against yourself. He moved a little away and I followed the gentleman. I did so thinking that will not be able to set  myself free form him. I continued following him. I had become certain of dying until we reached the door of abu al-Hassan ((عليه السلام).). He then left me there and went away. At that time the servant came out of the house and said, "Come inside, may Allah grant you blessings." I went in and found abu al-Hassan ((عليه السلام).) therein. He begun

talking to me, "Not to al-Murji‘a, or al-Qadria, or al-Zaydiya nor to al-Mu‘tazila or al-Khariji group, but come to me, come to me." I then said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, has your father left this world?" He said, "Yes, he has passed away. I then asked, " Did he die a natural death?" He said, "Yes, he did so." I then ask, "Who will be for us after him?"

He said, "If Allah would will to guide you he will do so." I then said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, ‘Abdallah thinks that he is the one after his father." He said, "‘Abdallah wants that Allah not be worshipped." I then said, May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, who will be for us after him?" He said, "If Allah would will to guide you he will do so." I then said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, is that you?" He said, "No, I do not say that to you." He has said that I then said to myself, "Perhaps

I could not ask in the right way." Then I said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, is there any Imam above you?" He said, "No, there is no Imam above me." He has said that then something struck my mind in away that no one would know except Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most gracious. It was a feeling of his greatness and awe greater then what I would feel in the presence of his father. Then I said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, may I ask what I used to ask your father?" He said, "Ask, you will have the

answers but do not make them public. If you would do so it will be slaughtering." I asked him and found him to be like an ocean of knowledge there does not dry up. I then said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, your Shi‘a, followers and the followers of your father are in loss and false guidance. Thus, can I meet them and call them to you? I will keep it secret." He said, "If you will find intelligent people inform them but make him to promise secrecy. If they would make it public it will be slaughter, he pointed with his hand to his throat.”

Grading: Allamah Baqir al-Majlisi: مجهول بأبي يحيى – Mir‘at al ‘Uqul Fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul (4/94)

 Shaykh Baqir al-Behbudi: ضعيف

These are sufficient to reject your false claims that you have tried to derive falsely from the Daef / Weak hadith.

Hisham bin Salem is follower of Twelve Imams, few hadith are mentioned below from Al-kafi, Vol 1, Part 4:

H 151, Ch. 17, h 14

Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ‘Umar ibn 'Abd al-‘Aziz from Hisham ibn Salim, Hammed ibn ‘Uthman and others who have said the following.

"Abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) said, ‘My Hadith is the Hadith of my father. The Hadith of my father is the Hadith of my grandfather. The Hadith of my grandfather is the Hadith of Imam Husayn. The Hadith of Imam al-Husayn is the Hadith of Imam al- Hassan. The Hadith of Imam al-Hassan is the Hadith of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).). The Hadith of Imam Ali is the Hadith of the holy Prophet (s.a.) and the Hadith of the holy Prophet is the words of Allah, the Majestic, the Glorious.’"

H 796, Ch. 70, h 7

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Mahbub from Hisham ibn Salim from Jabur ibn Yazid al-Ju‘fiy who has said the following. "A question was asked (from abu Ja‘far ((عليه السلام).) about
al-Qa’im (the twelfth Imam ((عليه السلام).). He (abu Ja‘far) tapped (at the shoulder of) abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) and said, "This, by Allah, is the Qa’im (one who will establish the kingdom of Allah) of the family of Muhammad (s.a.)." ‘Anbasa has said, "when abu Ja‘far passed away, went to see abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) and told him of what I had heard (from Jabur). The Imam ((عليه السلام).) said, "Jabur has spoken the truth." He then said, "You perhaps think that the every succeeding Imam after a preceding Imam is not al-Qa’im (also meaning the one who obeys and serves Allah)."

H 914, Ch. 80, h 27

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from al-Husayn ibn Sa‘id from ibn abu ‘Umayr from Hisham ibn Salim from abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) who has said the following. "Al-Qa’im (the one who will rise with Divine Authority) will rise and he will not be obliged to any one under any covenant, agreement or oath of allegiance."

H , Ch. 105, h 1

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from ibn Mahbub from Hisham ibn Salim from abu Khalid al-Kabuli from abu Ja‘far ((عليه السلام).) who has said the following. "We found in the book of Amir al-Mu’minin ((عليه السلام).) this. "The earth belongs to Allah and He gives it in inheritance to whoever of His servants that He wishes. The good end is for those who are pious before Allah’, I and my Ahl al-Bayt are the people to whom Allah has given the earth in inheritance and we are the ones who are pious before Allah. The whole earth belongs to us. Thus, whoever of the Muslims would revive a land, he must establish it, pay taxes to the Imam from my Ahl al-Bayt. Whatever he has used would be his. If he would abandon or allow to become barren and another Muslim would revive and re establish it he will have more right to it than the one who have abandoned. This person will now pay the taxes to the Imam from my Ahl al-Bayt and whatever he would use thereafter is his until Al-Qa’im from my Ahl al-Bayt will rise with Divine Authority and with the sword. He will control and protect them and will remove from them just as the Messenger of Allah had controlled and protected it, except, however, for what would be in the hands of our followers. He will form a contract with them and will leave the land to them."

Hisham ibn Salim was follower of twelve imams’, he knew also about Al-Qaim (The twelfth imam)

wasalam

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