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In the Name of God بسم الله

Rumi's Poem about 12 Imams


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Salam. Here's Rumi's poem in his Diwan about 12 Imams. The poem is titled Molana Ali. He lists the 12 Imams by name in his poetry and clearly says Musa Kadhim is the seventh of the Imams. So, yes, sufis believe in the twelve Imams of the Shias.

Anyway, do we have an English translation for this online? Thanks.

ای شاه شاهان جهان الله، مولانا علی
ای نور چشم عاشقان الله، مولانا علی

حمد است گفتن نام تو ای نور فرخ نام تو
خورشید و مه هندوی تو الله، مولانا علی

خورشید مشرق خاوری در بندگی بسته کمر
ماهت غلام نیک پی الله، مولانا علی

خورشید باشد ذره‌ای از خاکدان کوی تو
دریای عمان شبنمی الله، مولانا علی

موسی عمران در غمت بنشسته بد در کوه طور
داود می‌خواندت زبور الله، مولانا علی

آدم که نور عالم است عیسی که پور مریم است
در کوی عشقت در هم است الله، مولانا علی

داود را آهن چو موم قدرست نموده کردگار
زیرا به دل اقرار کرد الله، مولانا علی

آن نور چشم انبیا احمد که بد بدر دجا
می‌گفت در قرب دنا الله، مولانا علی

قاضی و شیخ و محتسب دارد به دل بغض علی
هر سه شدند از دین بری الله، مولانا علی

گر مقتدای جاهلی کردست در دین جاهلی
تو مقتدای کاملی الله، مولانا علی

شاهم علی مرتضی بعدش حسن نجم سما
خوانم حسین کربلا الله، مولانا علی

آن آدم آل عبا دانم علی زین العباد
هم باقر و صادق گوا الله، مولانا علی

موسی کاظم هفتمین باشد امام و رهنما
گوید علی موسی الرضا الله، مولانا علی

سوی تقی آی و نقی در مهر او عهدی بخوان
با عسکری رازی بگو الله، مولانا علی

مهدی سوار آخرین بر خصم بگشاید کمین
خارج رود زیر زمین الله، مولانا علی

تخم خوارج در جهان ناچیز و ناپیدا شود
آن شاه چون بیدار شود الله، مولانا علی

دیو و پری و اهرمن، اولاد آدم مرد و زن
دارند این سر در دهن الله، مولانا علی

اقرار کن اظهار کن مولای رومی این سخن
هر لحظه سر من لدن الله، مولانا علی

ای شمس تبریزی بیا بر ما مکن جور و جفا
رخ را به مولانا نما الله، مولانا علی

Edited by islamicmusic
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What do you think a person is called who goes to one side and please them and then he goes to other side and please them too, making both sides confused? You can make your own judgement. Do you apply to him Taqiyyah and people have gone so far to apply it to Ibn Arabi. When it actually does not make any sense because these figures never were in threat and were always pleasing the governments and always joining the Sunnis gatherings and wrote Sunni works.

No Shia in Taqiyyah will do the same thing.

Edited by Abu Nur
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So I take your answer that "No, I don't have the English translation of this poem. But I have English translation of an excerpt from him about Muawiyah. And you can not share Rumi's poetry about 12 Imams because he also praises Muawiyah. And clearly you can not use Rumi's poetry to preach self-proclaimed sufis of today about 12 Imams." Right? Interesting.

A simple "Wa alaikum salam. No, I don't have the translation" would suffice though.

Edited by islamicmusic
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On 6/29/2021 at 2:44 AM, islamicmusic said:

So I take your answer that "No, I don't have the English translation of this poem. But I have English translation of an excerpt from him about Muawiyah. And you can not share Rumi's poetry about 12 Imams because he also praises Muawiyah. And clearly you can not use Rumi's poetry to preach self-proclaimed sufis of today about 12 Imams." Right? Interesting.

A simple "Wa alaikum salam. No, I don't have the translation" would suffice though.

I don't have the translation and I would share it if I have it.

Quote

A simple "Wa alaikum salam. No, I don't have the translation" would suffice though.

No, it would not be sufficient. It is important to know the reality behind these Scholars and be very aware of them. As sincere they were in their religion, mostly they innovated and misguided many people.

Edited by Abu Nur
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  • 11 months later...
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Posted (edited)
On 6/28/2021 at 11:15 AM, islamicmusic said:

Salam. Here's Rumi's poem in his Diwan about 12 Imams. The poem is titled Molana Ali. He lists the 12 Imams by name in his poetry and clearly says Musa Kadhim is the seventh of the Imams. So, yes, sufis believe in the twelve Imams of the Shias.

Anyway, do we have an English translation for this online? Thanks.

ای شاه شاهان جهان الله، مولانا علی
ای نور چشم عاشقان الله، مولانا علی

حمد است گفتن نام تو ای نور فرخ نام تو
خورشید و مه هندوی تو الله، مولانا علی

خورشید مشرق خاوری در بندگی بسته کمر
ماهت غلام نیک پی الله، مولانا علی

خورشید باشد ذره‌ای از خاکدان کوی تو
دریای عمان شبنمی الله، مولانا علی

موسی عمران در غمت بنشسته بد در کوه طور
داود می‌خواندت زبور الله، مولانا علی

آدم که نور عالم است عیسی که پور مریم است
در کوی عشقت در هم است الله، مولانا علی

داود را آهن چو موم قدرست نموده کردگار
زیرا به دل اقرار کرد الله، مولانا علی

آن نور چشم انبیا احمد که بد بدر دجا
می‌گفت در قرب دنا الله، مولانا علی

قاضی و شیخ و محتسب دارد به دل بغض علی
هر سه شدند از دین بری الله، مولانا علی

گر مقتدای جاهلی کردست در دین جاهلی
تو مقتدای کاملی الله، مولانا علی

شاهم علی مرتضی بعدش حسن نجم سما
خوانم حسین کربلا الله، مولانا علی

آن آدم آل عبا دانم علی زین العباد
هم باقر و صادق گوا الله، مولانا علی

موسی کاظم هفتمین باشد امام و رهنما
گوید علی موسی الرضا الله، مولانا علی

سوی تقی آی و نقی در مهر او عهدی بخوان
با عسکری رازی بگو الله، مولانا علی

مهدی سوار آخرین بر خصم بگشاید کمین
خارج رود زیر زمین الله، مولانا علی

تخم خوارج در جهان ناچیز و ناپیدا شود
آن شاه چون بیدار شود الله، مولانا علی

دیو و پری و اهرمن، اولاد آدم مرد و زن
دارند این سر در دهن الله، مولانا علی

اقرار کن اظهار کن مولای رومی این سخن
هر لحظه سر من لدن الله، مولانا علی

ای شمس تبریزی بیا بر ما مکن جور و جفا
رخ را به مولانا نما الله، مولانا علی

I will translate the poem myself and post it here, inshallah. I don't believe it has been translated before. 

Wassalam. 

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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  • 3 weeks later...
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O King of Kings in the Cosmos of Allah, my Master Ali,

O Vision of the Lovers of Allah, my Master Ali!
 

To utter your name is (Allah’s) Praise, O Light! Blessed is your name!

The Sun and the Moon serve you*, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

(*Two alternative meanings can be- even the sun and the moon appear fade and dark compared to you, or that they are moles upon your cheek, that is, they enhance your beauty.)

 

The sun is but a speck of dust within the bin of your alley,

The River of Amman* is but a dew drop (for you), (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

(* That is, the Jordan, which was then possibly a mighty river, and of sacred importance, being associated with several of the previous prophets, peace be upon them all.)

 

It was in your grief that Musa (عليه السلام), son of Imran (عليه السلام), sat down on the mount of Tur,
(And) Dawood recited the Zaboor, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

 

Adam (عليه السلام), the light of the universe, Isa (عليه السلام), the son of Maryam,

Wander bewildered in the alley of your love, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

 

To Dawud (عليه السلام), iron was made to appear like wax,

From what* he acknowledged by his heart, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

(*That is, the Divine Vicegerency of Ameer al-Mu’mineen)

 

That light of the eyes of Prophets, Ahmad (S), bright as the full moon,

Said- in (seeking your) nearness is the happiness of Allah! My Master Ali!

 

The judge, the scholar, and the inspector*, who nurse within hearts Ali’s hatred,
Are all three outside the faith’s fold, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

(* ‘Al-Muhtasib’ referred to here was a sort of inspector of morality in medieval Muslim polities.)

 

If the leader of ignorance, spreads ignorance within the faith,

(Then) you are the leader of the perfect, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

 

My King is Ali, the Chosen One, (and) after him is Hassan, the Star in the Sky,

(And) I say, Hussain of Karbala, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

 

That Adam of The Household of the Cloak, I know, (is) Ali, the Ornament of (God’s) Servants,

With Baqir and Sadiq, a witness to Allah! My Master Ali!

 

Musa al-Kadhim is the the Seventh (of them), a leader and a guide,

Says Ali, son of Musa, al-Rida, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

 

Come towards Taqi, and (towards) Naqi, and enter a covenant stamped with their seal,

With Askari, pronounce a secret, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

 

Mahdi, the Mighty Warrior, the Last of them, shall manifest upon the Despicable Enemy*,

Beneath the Earth the wretch shall be dispatched, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

(*the Dajjal)

 

The very seed of the Kharijites in this world shall be humiliated and eradicated,

When that Prince shall be awakened, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

 

The Genies, the Fairies, nay, the Devil himself, the children of Adam, men and women,

Bear this unspoken secret, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

 

Acknowledge and Manifest this speech, O Master of Rum,

Each time, this otherworldly secret of mine, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

 

O Shams of Tabriz, do come! Do not oppress and torment me!

Reveal your face to Mawla*, (by) Allah! My Master Ali!

(*Rumi himself)

 

Brother @islamicmusic, here is a working translation. Apologies for the delay!
Apologies in advance for any errors in translation that might have crept in! Brothers and sisters conversant with Farsi may feel free to make necessary corrections if needed!
 

Salam, and Fi Amanillah!

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22 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

He seems to me a shia.

Salam, 

Not really, brother. He was a Sunni through and through (Hanafi Maturidi) and just had a level of respect for the Ahlul Bayt (ams), that's all. His writings pretty much espouse the standard Sunni position on everything- the caliphate, the faith of Abu Talib (عليه السلام), the question of those who fought Ameer al-Mu'mineen (asws) etc. The theory that people like him or Ibn Arabi were Shi'a in taqiyyah has negligible support and rests on very flimsy evidence, if at all there is any evidence to support it. You will find similar paeans written in the honor of Ahlul Bayt (ams) from other Sufi Sunni poets and scholars ( Jami and Sa'adi, for example). Jami even went on to accept the existence of Imam al-Asr (aj)- his birth and his parentage from Imam Askari (عليه السلام), but remained doctrinally Sunni. 

Generally when Shi'a urafa posed as Sunni Sufis out of taqiyyah, they either left us works detailing their true beliefs, or told their descendants about their true beliefs, which were revealed when the time was right. Some good examples are Shaykh Safi ad-Din Ardabili (the founder of the Safawiyyah order and ancestor of Shah Isma'il I, rahimahullah), who pretended to be a Shafi'i Ash'ari, or Sayyid Jalal ud- Din 'Surkh Posh' Bukhari , who pretended to be a Hanafi Maturidi out of taqiyyah, but passed on his true beliefs to his children who came out of taqiyyah and revealed them about 3 centuries later. The Ni'matullahi and Noorbakhshiyya orders also have similar histories. Even when they wrote things in their works which went ostensibly against Shi'a beliefs, they very explicitly wrote their true beliefs elsewhere, or in their wasiyyah to their descendants. But we don't find this to be the case with figures like Rumi. The notion that he was Shi'a is misplaced. The most we can argue is that, just like other Sufi Sunnis, he also had some faint Shi'a leanings. As it is the Sunni Sufis consider the Twelve Imams (ams) to be the Prophet (SAWA) 's batini khulafa. But this doesn't mean they are Shi'a. 

 

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18 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

His writings pretty much espouse the standard Sunni position on everything- the caliphate, the faith of Abu Talib (عليه السلام), the question of those who fought Ameer al-Mu'mineen (asws) etc.

How can you be sure that his poems mention sunni position. It may be that he wrote those poems while he was sunni and later changed his faith and became shia after being disciple of Hazrat Shams Tabriz (رضي الله عنه)

 

18 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

As it is the Sunni Sufis consider the Twelve Imams (ams) to be the Prophet (SAWA) 's batini khulafa. But this doesn't mean they are Shi'a. 

It's not common among all sufis. Many Sufi orders accept few holy imams and then trace their order from the person who founded it. 

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On 6/26/2022 at 1:56 PM, Borntowitnesstruth said:

How can you be sure that his poems mention sunni position. It may be that he wrote those poems while he was sunni and later changed his faith and became shia after being disciple of Hazrat Shams Tabriz (رضي الله عنه)

In that case, I request you to kindly take a look at his mathnawi ma'nawi yourself, if you understand classical Farsi, because I don't think a translation is available in English. In his poems he calls Abu Talib (عليه السلام) a kafir who died upon disbelief (astaghfirullah), praises the 3 Sunni caliphs, and even goes on to praise Mu'awiya (la) calling him katib al-wahy and what not. I am saying this with confidence because I have seen those poems myself. Don't trust me if you are not willing to. Do your own investigation. 

Shams Tabrizi? He was no Shi'a himself. He was a Sunni, and so bigoted in his anti-Shi'ism that he writes in his book called 'al-Maqalat' that Sayyida Zahra (sa) was not a true arifa because she had the fear of hell, and Rabiyya al-Adawiyya was a true arifa because she had no fear of hell, and therefore Rabiyya is better than Sayyida Zahra (sa), astaghfirullah!! His poetry is similarly full of homoerotic and pederastic fantasies, muddle-headed anthropomorphism and filthy pantheistic shirk; I don't know why you give him taraddi and call him 'hadhrat'. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) unleash his wrath on this deplorable,despicable wretched nasibi and enemy of Sayyida Zahra (sa) !

I think you are confusing him with Shams ad-Din Sabzawari, the contemporary Shi'a scholar and saint. Many people erroneously link him to Rumi.

Tabrizi was no Shi'a at all, and there is no evidence that Rumi adopted Shiite positions at any point in his life, apart from maybe having a soft corner for the Ahlul Bayt (ams). All claims on the contrary are are pure speculation with no factual basis. Tabrizi was his shaykh, and Rumi began writing his works only after he was initiated into mystic practices by Tabrizi and became a full fledged dervish. So the 'change of views' theory is anachronistic. 

See the image below for testimonial. Since you are also an Urdu speaker, everything shall be abundantly clear. 

On 6/26/2022 at 1:56 PM, Borntowitnesstruth said:

It's not common among all sufis. Many Sufi orders accept few holy imams and then trace their order from the person who founded it. 

Those are two different things. An Imam might not be in the direct tariqah of an order, but they still hold him to be a spiritual successor of Rasoolallah (SAWA). The Sunni Sufi conception of spiritual succession to the prophet (S) in the form of ghawth and aqtab is more diffuse than our conception of imamah. The Chishtiyya don't have any Imam after Ameer al-Mu'mineen in their shajra, but they consider all the twelve imams (ams) divine authorities.Same for the Naqshbandiyya and the Qadiriyya. 

The Sufi conception of divine authority is different from ours. The Chishtiyya don't have Abdul Qadir al-Jilani in their shajra, nor do the Qadiriyya have Abu Ishaq al-Shami in their direct lineage, but ask what they think of each other's masha'ikh, and they'll both reply that they were all awliya, charged with authority from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), even if they don't take their tariqah from them. 

Having an imam in their shajra and acknowledging him to be a divinely charged authority are two different things that shouldn't be conflated. 

Exy6apZVIAkg8fO.jpeg

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1 hour ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

In that case, I request you to kindly take a look at his mathnawi ma'nawi yourself, if you understand classical Farsi, because I don't think a translation is available in English. In his poems he calls Abu Talib (عليه السلام) a kafir who died upon disbelief (astaghfirullah), praises the 3 Sunni caliphs, and even goes on to praise Mu'awiya (la) calling him katib al-wahy and what not. I am saying this with confidence because I have seen those poems myself. Don't trust me if you are not willing to. Do your own investigation. 

Shams Tabrizi? He was no Shi'a himself. He was a Sunni, and so bigoted in his anti-Shi'ism that he writes in his book called 'al-Maqalat' that Sayyida Zahra (sa) was not a true arifa because she had the fear of hell, and Rabiyya al-Adawiyya was a true arifa because she had no fear of hell, and therefore Rabiyya is better than Sayyida Zahra (sa), astaghfirullah!! His poetry is similarly full of homoerotic and pederastic fantasies, muddle-headed anthropomorphism and filthy pantheistic shirk; I don't know why you give him taraddi and call him 'hadhrat'. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) unleash his wrath on this deplorable,despicable wretched nasibi and enemy of Sayyida Zahra (sa) !

I think you are confusing him with Shams ad-Din Sabzawari, the contemporary Shi'a scholar and saint. Many people erroneously link him to Rumi.

Tabrizi was no Shi'a at all, and there is no evidence that Rumi adopted Shiite positions at any point in his life, apart from maybe having a soft corner for the Ahlul Bayt (ams). All claims on the contrary are are pure speculation with no factual basis. Tabrizi was his shaykh, and Rumi began writing his works only after he was initiated into mystic practices by Tabrizi and became a full fledged dervish. So the 'change of views' theory is anachronistic. 

See the image below for testimonial. Since you are also an Urdu speaker, everything shall be abundantly clear. 

Those are two different things. An Imam might not be in the direct tariqah of an order, but they still hold him to be a spiritual successor of Rasoolallah (SAWA). The Sunni Sufi conception of spiritual succession to the prophet (S) in the form of ghawth and aqtab is more diffuse than our conception of imamah. The Chishtiyya don't have any Imam after Ameer al-Mu'mineen in their shajra, but they consider all the twelve imams (ams) divine authorities.Same for the Naqshbandiyya and the Qadiriyya. 

The Sufi conception of divine authority is different from ours. The Chishtiyya don't have Abdul Qadir al-Jilani in their shajra, nor do the Qadiriyya have Abu Ishaq al-Shami in their direct lineage, but ask what they think of each other's masha'ikh, and they'll both reply that they were all awliya, charged with authority from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), even if they don't take their tariqah from them. 

Having an imam in their shajra and acknowledging him to be a divinely charged authority are two different things that shouldn't be conflated. 

Exy6apZVIAkg8fO.jpeg

I will investigate this matter. Thank you for sharing your opinion.

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On 6/27/2022 at 11:59 PM, Borntowitnesstruth said:

I will investigate this matter. Thank you for sharing your opinion.

No problem brother. Glad that I could be of help. 

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