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In the Name of God بسم الله

About 'Ilm al-Ghayb

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Posted (edited)

Salaam Aleikum,

"Say [O Muhammad]: I do not say to you, I have with me the treasures of Allah, nor do I have knowledge of the Ghayb (unseen), nor do I say to you that I am an angel; I do not follow aught save that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and the seeing one alike? Do you not then reflect?"

This is of the tidings of the Unseen which We inspire in thee (Muhammad). Thou thyself knewest it not, nor did thy folk (know it) before this. Then have patience. Lo! the sequel is for those who ward off (evil).

[Surah Hud (11), verse 49]

Is the nature of the knowledge of unseen such that it can only been inspired/revealed by God to Messenger such that it does not depend on Prophet asking for it? 11:49 knowledge is about the events of Nuh was clearly revealed such that the Prophet never even asked for it before it was revealed, this is because he did not know anything about Nuh.

Edited by Abu Nur
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The mechanics/technical details how does this help us? 

The Creator, is aware of ALL. He choose to impart whatever in necessary to his representative, at anytime or at request, whatever the way it is. If there is a Need, The Creator will Assist his representative or the Representative will have whatever is needed to do the job made available to him. 

In short, if needed, the information is available or made available. 

Why are we concerned with the mechanics/technical stuff? Is it not sufficient to know as far as we are concerned, that Our Guardian/Mawla/Master will have access to whatever they need. How/when/which path. Not our issue. How it gets to them, or how our stuff gets to them. minor details. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

The mechanics/technical details how does this help us? 

The Creator, is aware of ALL. He choose to impart whatever in necessary to his representative, at anytime or at request, whatever the way it is. If there is a Need, The Creator will Assist his representative or the Representative will have whatever is needed to do the job made available to him. 

It helps us to understand more about the reality of how things work. I believe it is very important matter and not something a minor thing.

I think my question is related to this topic and answered there

https://www.iqraonline.net/reality-of-revelation-religious-experience-part-1/

Edited by Abu Nur
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If we were to figure out, if it is our job - what transpires between the creator and his representative. How does this helps us. Is it one of the directives in the book, or we are suppose to be more concerned with Obedience and following the way? 

I see a lot of this- figuring out the communication route/status- overly concerned with or judgmental attitude - this not our job. we did not choose them, whoever did it is his job. 

They are more knowledge/wisdom/awareness/infallibility compared to any who was with the them or us. Their true status is known to their Creator. 

Our job is to follow the directive of the mawla/master not judge. To me it is simple as this. 

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20 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Is the nature of the knowledge of unseen such that it can only been inspired/revealed by God to Messenger such that it does not depend on Prophet asking for it? 11:49 knowledge is about the events of Nuh was clearly revealed such that the Prophet never even asked for it before it was revealed, this is because he did not know anything about Nuh

I'm not sure if this Mawthaq narration helps or not.

مُحَمَّدٌ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ اِبْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ عَمَّارٍ اَلسَّابَاطِيِّ قَالَ: قُلْتُ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ بِمَا تَحْكُمُونَ إِذَا حَكَمْتُمْ قَالَ بِحُكْمِ اَللَّهِ وَ حُكْمِ دَاوُدَ فَإِذَا وَرَدَ عَلَيْنَا اَلشَّيْءُ اَلَّذِي لَيْسَ عِنْدَنَا تَلَقَّانَا بِهِ رُوحُ اَلْقُدُسِ .

If Imams and The Prophet didn't know something (or if something wasn't with them), The Holy Spirit would bring it to them.

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Posted (edited)

Here's a Saheeh narration that may be helpful, too. There's so much wisdom in it.

 

 مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ اِبْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنِ اِبْنِ رِئَابٍ عَنْ ضُرَيْسٍ اَلْكُنَاسِيِّ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ يَقُولُ: وَ عِنْدَهُ أُنَاسٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِهِ عَجِبْتُ مِنْ قَوْمٍ يَتَوَلَّوْنَا وَ يَجْعَلُونَا أَئِمَّةً وَ يَصِفُونَ أَنَّ طَاعَتَنَا مُفْتَرَضَةٌ عَلَيْهِمْ كَطَاعَةِ رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ ثُمَّ يَكْسِرُونَ حُجَّتَهُمْ وَ يَخْصِمُونَ أَنْفُسَهُمْ بِضَعْفِ قُلُوبِهِمْ فَيَنْقُصُونَا حَقَّنَا وَ يَعِيبُونَ ذَلِكَ عَلَى مَنْ أَعْطَاهُ اَللَّهُ بُرْهَانَ حَقِّ مَعْرِفَتِنَا وَ اَلتَّسْلِيمَ لِأَمْرِنَا أَ تَرَوْنَ أَنَّ اَللَّهَ تَبَارَكَ وَ تَعَالَى اِفْتَرَضَ طَاعَةَ أَوْلِيَائِهِ عَلَى عِبَادِهِ ثُمَّ يُخْفِي عَنْهُمْ أَخْبَارَ اَلسَّمَاوَاتِ وَ اَلْأَرْضِ وَ يَقْطَعُ عَنْهُمْ مَوَادَّ اَلْعِلْمِ فِيمَا يَرِدُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِمَّا فِيهِ قِوَامُ دِينِهِمْ فَقَالَ لَهُ حُمْرَانُ جُعِلْتُ فِدَاكَ أَ رَأَيْتَ مَا كَانَ مِنْ أَمْرِ قِيَامِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ أَبِي طَالِبٍ وَ اَلْحَسَنِ وَ اَلْحُسَيْنِ عَلَيْهِمُ اَلسَّلاَمُ وَ خُرُوجِهِمْ وَ قِيَامِهِمْ بِدِينِ اَللَّهِ عَزَّ ذِكْرُهُ وَ مَا أُصِيبُوا مِنْ قَتْلِ اَلطَّوَاغِيتِ إِيَّاهُمْ وَ اَلظَّفَرِ بِهِمْ حَتَّى قُتِلُوا وَ غُلِبُوا فَقَالَ أَبُو جَعْفَرٍ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ يَا حُمْرَانُ إِنَّ اَللَّهَ تَبَارَكَ وَ تَعَالَى قَدْ كَانَ قَدَّرَ ذَلِكَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَ قَضَاهُ وَ أَمْضَاهُ وَ حَتَمَهُ عَلَى سَبِيلِ اَلاِخْتِيَارِ ثُمَّ أَجْرَاهُ فَبِتَقَدُّمِ عِلْمٍ إِلَيْهِمْ مِنْ رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ قَامَ عَلِيٌّ وَ اَلْحَسَنُ وَ اَلْحُسَيْنُ عَلَيْهِمُ اَلسَّلاَمُ وَ بِعِلْمٍ صَمَتَ مَنْ صَمَتَ مِنَّا وَ لَوْ أَنَّهُمْ يَا حُمْرَانُ حَيْثُ نَزَلَ بِهِمْ مَا نَزَلَ مِنْ أَمْرِ اَللَّهِ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ وَ إِظْهَارِ اَلطَّوَاغِيتِ عَلَيْهِمْ سَأَلُوا اَللَّهَ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ أَنْ يَدْفَعَ عَنْهُمْ ذَلِكَ وَ أَلَحُّوا عَلَيْهِ فِي طَلَبِ إِزَالَةِ مُلْكِ اَلطَّوَاغِيتِ وَ ذَهَابِ مُلْكِهِمْ إِذاً لَأَجَابَهُمْ وَ دَفَعَ ذَلِكَ عَنْهُمْ ثُمَّ كَانَ اِنْقِضَاءُ مُدَّةِ اَلطَّوَاغِيتِ وَ ذَهَابُ مُلْكِهِمْ أَسْرَعَ مِنْ سِلْكٍ مَنْظُومٍ اِنْقَطَعَ فَتَبَدَّدَ وَ مَا كَانَ ذَلِكَ اَلَّذِي أَصَابَهُمْ يَا حُمْرَانُ لِذَنْبٍ اِقْتَرَفُوهُ وَ لاَ لِعُقُوبَةِ مَعْصِيَةٍ خَالَفُوا اَللَّهَ فِيهَا وَ لَكِنْ لِمَنَازِلَ وَ كَرَامَةٍ مِنَ اَللَّهِ أَرَادَ أَنْ يَبْلُغُوهَا فَلاَ تَذْهَبَنَّ بِكَ اَلْمَذَاهِبُ فِيهِمْ .

Edited by SoRoUsH
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5 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

I'm not sure if this Mawthaq narration helps or not.

مُحَمَّدٌ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ اِبْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ عَمَّارٍ اَلسَّابَاطِيِّ قَالَ: قُلْتُ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ بِمَا تَحْكُمُونَ إِذَا حَكَمْتُمْ قَالَ بِحُكْمِ اَللَّهِ وَ حُكْمِ دَاوُدَ فَإِذَا وَرَدَ عَلَيْنَا اَلشَّيْءُ اَلَّذِي لَيْسَ عِنْدَنَا تَلَقَّانَا بِهِ رُوحُ اَلْقُدُسِ .

If Imams and The Prophet didn't know something (or if something wasn't with them), The Holy Spirit would bring it to them.

But this is a different knowledge from knowledge of Ghayb?

According to this sahih narration what I understood is that the questioner asked very clear question that does Imam Al-Ridha (عليه السلام) posses Ilm Al Ghayb, or have access to it, where he denied it and said that they only have all those ghayb knowledge that was revealed to Prophet (saws) and inherited from the Prophet.

It gives me this understanding that Imams (عليه السلام) can not have any new knowledge of Ghayb, rather the new Ghayb Knowledge is only revealed to the Messengers where Imams (عليه السلام) will inherit it.

Here is the narration:

ilmg.thumb.png.9525b3975f47996211f1648b5d9de2a2.png

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

It gives me this understanding that Imams (عليه السلام) can not have any new knowledge of Ghayb, rather the new Ghayb Knowledge is only revealed to the Messengers where Imams (عليه السلام) will inherit it.

Then, first, we need to study to see what "Ilm al-Ghayb" implies. 

Whatever it is, it cannot be:  

أَخْبَارَ اَلسَّمَاوَاتِ وَ اَلْأَرْضِ  

مَوَادَّ اَلْعِلْمِ فِيمَا يَرِدُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِمَّا فِيهِ قِوَامُ دِينِهِمْ

 

 

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12 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

 asked very clear question that does Imam Al-Ridha (عليه السلام) posses Ilm Al Ghayb, or have access to it, where he denied it and said that they only have all those ghayb knowledge that was revealed to Prophet (saws) and inherited from the Prophet.

ilmg.thumb.png.9525b3975f47996211f1648b5d9de2a2.png

This is very similar to the statement of Imam Ali when asked in Nahjul balagah.

 

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