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In the Name of God بسم الله

Death

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What is death?

I see death as whether we are in realtionship with something or not.

Our body can be alive - by medical definition but our real being (Nafs??) can be dead to God but alive to evil - that is we don't have a conection with God but are engaging with selfishness and pride.

Or we can be dead to evil but alive to God - that is we have a relationship with the life giving God and have rejected fleshly desires.

Jesus the Messiah said (Holy Injil John chapter 11)

25 Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.

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On 6/20/2021 at 7:25 AM, 313_Waiter said:

If death means non-existence, nothing “dies”.

What will go to jannah/jahannum You, body or Nafs ?
Who is being tested in this world You, body or Nafs ?
Who is praying to Allah You, body or Nafs ?

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9 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

What will go to jannah/jahannum You, body or Nafs ?
Who is being tested in this world You, body or Nafs ?
Who is praying to Allah You, body or Nafs ?

Nafs, I think.

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On 6/20/2021 at 4:21 AM, Shahrukh K said:

What dies with death You, body or Nafs ?

 

I believe, the souls and at what state the souls is when the RUH is pull from the body.   RUH will return to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and the body will discompose.

.

Now this part is my understanding:

1.  If the state of the soul is not cleaned... will go to Barzakh.

2.  If the soul is clean...will go to Wadi e Salam.

3. If the soul is a shahid..will live on but no attached to body. 

In all states, the souls need food to eat and place of stay. 

So let us pray to our parents, love ones, and all mukminin and mukminat that already passed away so they will been taking care off.  We can still benefit them.  They can't benefit us.

As for those at #3 (that include Ahlulbayt), they hear our prayer for them, and they can in return pray to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for us too.  So send lots of salawats.

Wallahualam.

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10 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

What will go to jannah/jahannum You, body or Nafs ?
Who is being tested in this world You, body or Nafs ?
Who is praying to Allah You, body or Nafs ?

Salam both of them 

Why and how will the organs of the human body testify against him on the Day of Judgment? Will this testimony include people who confess their guilt?
 


1. What is used from religious sources and texts, including verses and hadiths in connection with the confession of limbs and organs on the Day of Judgment; That is, the confession of the limbs is generally about the disbelievers and the sinners, not the believers. Those who deny the revelations of God, consider the teachings of the prophets as myths, and disobey the divine commands; When the day of reckoning arrives and they receive the letter of their deeds and see the result of their deeds, then they open their mouths to protest and deny their deeds against them; Therefore, in order for God to make them understand that what is stated in your letter of action is the result of your own behavior and actions, He says to the limbs and joints that have committed that act, that you should bear witness to yourself: أَرْجُلُهُمْ بِما کانُوا یَعْمَلُونَ »; [1]On that day their tongues, their hands, and their feet will bear witness against what they used to do.

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About the quality of the testimony and confession of the organs on the Day of Judgment? Commentators have suggested possibilities; Such as:
a. God will create in that day the understanding and the power of speech in each of the organs, and they will really speak, and this is not surprising; Because the same person who created this power in a piece of meat called the human tongue or brain can create it in other organs as well.


B. God creates the song of testimony in them. In fact, the song and speech are from God himself and are figuratively attributed to the organs.


C. The organs of every human body will certainly have the effects of the actions it has performed throughout its life; Because no action in this world is destroyed, certainly its effects on one organ of the body, and remain in the space of the environment, the day that is the day of emergence and manifestation, these effects on the limbs and other organs. Appears, and the appearance of these works is their testimony. [5] But the testimony of tongues is that sinners are forced to confess when they see that denial is of no use to them.


D. Of course, it is also possible that the organs speak in the present language; In such a way that every organ who has committed a sin, his presence with that action in the divine knowledge is a linguistic testimony. Of course, this possibility seems unlikely and is not compatible with the appearance of the verse. [6]
That being said, the theory and the first possibility that the organs and joints are talking about seem more appropriate.
 

https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa38820

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Imam Hassan Mojtaba (as): In the interpretation of the holy verse, «وقفوهم انهم مسئولون» has said: No servant takes a step to another  step forward in  the "Day of Judgment" unless he is interrogated and questioned about four things:

 
- From his youth, in what way did he consume?
 
- From his life in what he used it.
 
- How he collected his wealth and in what way he spent it.
 
- And from our friendship with the Ahl al-Bayt and the family of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/504731/حدیث-روز-سخن-امام-حسن-ع-درباره-تفسیر-آیه-وقفوهم-انهم-مسئولون

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1394/09/15/935388/سخن-امام-حسن-ع-درباره-تفسیر-آیه-وقفوهم-انهم-مسئولون

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On 6/23/2021 at 2:39 PM, Shahrukh K said:

Death means end of the illusion "I am the body".

Imam Ali(as):People are asleep when alive; they are awake only when they are dead.

Althought  sleeping contains illusion but whole of our life in this world  is not a total illusion  on the other hand we have different  kinds of sleeping  which for normal people a great portion of it is illusion but by ascending  in sprituality we will see more percentage  of reality which in contrast of sleeping  of normal people , the sleeping of prophets  and infallible  Imams is total reality which there is no difference in their faith  between  their time of living in this world and their death ,by the same  token, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) stated "If all veils remove  from front  of my eyes there won't lead to   reduce  or increase in myfaith" .

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39 minutes ago, layman said:

the body will discompose.

Salam it's different  between people  likewise of bodies of martyrs of Karbala which it's recorded  that body of Hurr(رضي الله عنه) has been remained  untoched which after digging  & opening  his grave by order of Shah Ismail Safavi , his body was likewise a fresh dead body which when they removed  a piece of cloth of Imam  Hussain (عليه السلام) which  has been wrapped on his wound , his wound has started to bleeding until they wrapped again his wound with the piece of cloth of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) also this phenomenon  likewise it has been  reported about few Iranian  martyrs of Iran-Iraq war by witnesses .

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22 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Imam Ali(as):People are asleep when alive; they are awake only when they are dead.

https://www.imamali.net/?id=2567

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam it's different  between people  likewise of bodies of martyrs of Karbala which it's recorded  that body of Hurr(رضي الله عنه) has been remained  untoched which after digging  & opening  his grave by order of Shah Ismail Safavi , his body was likewise a fresh dead body which when they removed  a piece of cloth of Imam  Hussain (عليه السلام) which  has been wrapped on his wound , his wound has started to bleeding until they wrapped again his wound with the piece of cloth of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) also this phenomenon  likewise it has been  reported about few Iranian  martyrs of Iran-Iraq war by witnesses .

Salam Bro,

What do you think about this video... in Farsi with video of a shaheed.

Shaheed Never Dies - Martyred Body after 22 years - YouTube

Edited by layman
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On 6/19/2021 at 4:21 PM, Shahrukh K said:

What dies with death You, body or Nafs ?

 

When you die, your physical body dies. It dismembers, then disintegrates and becomes dust. Then on the Day of Judgement, it is reassembled by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and your soul, your Nafs, returns to it. 

Your Nafs, soul, is also called 'Self' because this is actually you. Your body is only a container for your Nafs in this world. People mistakenly believe that their physical body and their brain (which is part of their physical body) is the 'self' when we Muslims don't believe that. That is why the atheists and their followers define death as the 'cessation of brain activity' because they believe that all you are is a body and brain with no Nafs, or soul. We as Muslims don't believe that. 

Now as to what happens to your Nafs, or soul in between the death of your physical body and the Day of Judgement, it goes to the Intermediate world, known as Alim Al Barzakh. In this world the soul roams free without the confines of a physical body, and is punished or rewarded based on the actions in this life. 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Nafs, I think.

I do not agree.

Who love his family You, body or Nafs ?
Who is the doer in this world You, body or Nafs ?
Who is the enjoyer of this world You, body or Nafs ?
Who desire this world You, body or Nafs ?

All questions are answered in Quran.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

I do not agree.

Who love his family You, body or Nafs ?
Who is the doer in this world You, body or Nafs ?
Who is the enjoyer of this world You, body or Nafs ?
Who desire this world You, body or Nafs ?

All questions are answered in Quran.

What is the differences between Kaabah and Baitullah. Which will stay without destruction?

When we see a standing human infront of us, what do we see?  A Chinese, Pakistani, Iranian,...or a soul?

Everyone can answer, all questions are answered in Qur'an.  Infact, you can be anywhere in any forum, street,  location on this earth and hereafter, and the moment other people start to say something, and you can say the same state "all questions are answered in Qur'an".

Since you are not Talking Quran, give your version of understanding and not mere a statement " all questions are answered in Qur'an ".  Just state your understanding.  Otherwise, you are just insulting us.

If you disturbed or concerned with my statement than I will answer you that "all concerns are addressed in Qur'an " and I close my case.  It that fair?

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On 6/24/2021 at 5:32 AM, Shahrukh K said:

What will go to jannah/jahannum You, body or Nafs ?

And guard yourselves against a day in which you shall be returned to Allah; then every soul shall be paid back in full what it has earned, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly. (2:281)

Every soul shall taste of death, and you shall only be paid fully your reward on the resurrection day; then whoever is removed far away from the fire and is made to enter the garden he indeed has attained the object; and the life of this world is nothing but a provision of vanities. (3:185)

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On 6/24/2021 at 1:02 AM, Shahrukh K said:

What will go to jannah/jahannum You, body or Nafs ?

Only You will go to jannah when your Nafs is dissolved, body will be used only as a witness on the yaum-deen.
You will be resurrected into hell with a new body if Nafs is still present.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Shahrukh K said:

Only You will go to jannah when your Nafs is dissolved,

Dissolved!!!!!

In which solvent? 

By "You", you mean consciousness?

 

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On 6/24/2021 at 1:02 AM, Shahrukh K said:

Who is being tested in this world You, body or Nafs ?

A test (bala, in Arabic) is an affliction, a misfortune. The “Zeenat” (adornment of this world) is a “bala” because it is something you either “want” or it is something you are “afraid to lose”. Now the reason why God puts us in this scenario (of bala) is so that the one who has “Ihsan” (the one who is literally “most beautiful” or “excellent” with respect to ‘amal or deeds) will become actualized from potentiality. it is like the quality of a diamond depends on how much pressure it undergoes. 

------Ethereal

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22 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

Who is the enjoyer of this world You, body or Nafs ?

The world is but a show, glittering and empty. It is, and yet is not. It is there as long as You want to play and take part in it. When You cease caring, it dissolves. It appears exactly as it looks, but there is no depth in it, nor meaning. Only, You the onlooker is real. Call him Spirit or rooh . To the rooh  the world is but a colourful show, which he enjoys as long as it lasts and forgets when it is over. Whatever happens on the stage makes him shudder in terror or roll with laughter, yet all the time he is aware that it is but a show. Without desire or fear he enjoys it, as it happens.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

No one.

Extreme view of fana'.

Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the Slave of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  

There is a difference between Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His Slaves.  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the Rabb and we are only Slaves.

Yes, a Pure Slave only act according to the Master's Will...as if the Slave looks like a Master because the Slave acting from the Master. However, Rabb is difference than the Slave.  A slave is a slave and a Master is a master. You cannot say, when a slave acts according to the Master, then the slave doesn't not exist...the slave is fana' and ceases to exist.

However, you can call the Pure Slave as  Face, Hand, Rope of the Master.  The Slave is the mean for the Master to operate.  But, Both Master and Slaves must exist.

When ibnu Ziyad was talking talk to Imam Hussain(عليه السلام), it seem like Yazid (la) was talking, or a little deeper...like syaitan was talking...more deeper..like iblis was talking.  In reality, ibnul Ziyad, Yazid, Syaitan and Iblis, all of them exist.

When Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) was talking to Ibnul Ziyad,..it seems that Rasul was talking..more deeper...it isAllah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) was talking to Ibnul Ziyad.  In reality Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), Rasul (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) exist.

It is how we play our roles as a Slave. But, we exist.  Just let the Light rule us.  We can make the soul  be fana' (free from the other attachment,  except to the Light, so the Light dominates the soul, and we the Soul is only the mean...the face, hand or rope of the Master.) But the soul exist, so thus the Rabb.

This is where i differ with Sufism...the understanding of the doctrine of fana'.  Those sufis from Andalusia have extreme view of fana'... until they say to the public..."Ana al-Haq."...nothing exist except Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

But, middle path muslim believe in two parts that exist..

La ilaha illa lah

Muhammadur Rasulullah. 

Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as Messenger (hand, face, rope)...and a Pure Slave.

Even when Muhammad was at the closest station to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)...during mikraj. Both exist.

Therefore...We exist..

I know @eThErEaLhas crossed the line into the extreme. I am buying his belief.

Wallahualam 

 

Edited by layman
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9 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

Only You will go to jannah when your Nafs is dissolved, body will be used only as a witness on the yaum-deen.
You will be resurrected into hell with a new body if Nafs is still present.

 

 

Salaam can you give proof from Qur’an. I thought we still have ego in jannah.

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On 6/28/2021 at 9:29 AM, Shahrukh K said:

But Jannah i am talking about, where there is no veil between you and Allah.

Hey this is amazing!  All this talk about what is death, but here we have someone talking about life!

Living in God's presence - what a propsect!  For me, as I follow Jesus the Messiah, I know I am living in God's presence even now.  For me the question about what is death is irrelevant because I know and am experiencing real spiritual life flowing from God.

Jesus the Messiah said (John chapter 4)

14 But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life.”

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On 7/1/2021 at 9:43 PM, Dave follower of The Way said:

Hey this is amazing!  All this talk about what is death, but here we have someone talking about life!

Living in God's presence - what a propsect!  For me, as I follow Jesus the Messiah, I know I am living in God's presence even now.  For me the question about what is death is irrelevant because I know and am experiencing real spiritual life flowing from God.

Jesus the Messiah said (John chapter 4)

14 But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life.”

Nothing dies. The body is just imagined. There is no such thing.
You are like the man in the cinema house, laughing and crying with the picture, though knowing fully well that he is all the time in his seat and the picture is but the play of light. It is enough to shift attention from the screen to oneself to break the spell. When the (illusion of) body dies, the kind of life you live now -- succession of physical and mental events -- comes to an end. It can end even now --without waiting for the death of the body -- it is enough to shift attention to the Self and keep it there. 
All happens as if there is a mysterious power that creates and moves everything. Realise that you are not the mover, only the observer, and you will be at peace.
 

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On 7/1/2021 at 8:43 PM, Dave follower of The Way said:

But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life.”

Hi

Quote

Instances of "al-Kawthar" are variously interpreted as the Pond of Kawthar, a river in the Heaven, an abundance of the good, prophethood, the Qur'an, the great number of his companions, and intercession. In the view of many Shiite scholars, one instance of "al-Kawthar" is Lady Fatima (a) and her children, because the sura was revealed in response to those who had claimed that the Prophet (s) had no progeny.

As to the virtue of the recitation of Sura al-Kawthar, it is said: if one recites the sura in his daily prayers, then he will drink from the Pond of Kawthar on the day of resurrection, and will be a companion of the Prophet (s) under the Tree of Tuba.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Sura_al-Kawthar

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The book of God is a strong rope which hangs into our world from the heavens, and my progeny is my household.  These two will never be separated from each other till they come to me next to the pool of Kawthar (in paradise). So be careful and see how you treat the two after me.” [24]

http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa1162

Quote

Sāqī l-Kawthar (Arabic: ساقي الكوثر) is one of Imam Ali's (a) titles meaning a person who supplies water to others from the Kawthar Pond.

"Saqi al-Kawthar" is a phrasal word composed of "saqi" and "kawthar". The phrase has not been used in the Qur'an, though the word "kawthar" is used therein. The word "saqi" means a person who supplies water or wine to others.[1] The word used to refer to someone who poured water in bowls and gave it to others. And the word "kawthar", from the Arabic root "k-th-r" (ک-ث-ر) (abundance), means abundant good.[2]

Some exegetes of the Qur'an take the word "kawthar" in Sura al-Kawthar to refer to the Prophet's (s) pond in the Heaven with its water whiter than milk and tastier than honey.[3] According to Shiite and Sunni hadiths, the supplier of this pond is Imam Ali (a).[4]

There are many poems in which Imam Ali (a) is referred to as "Saqi al-Kawthar".[5]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Saqi_l-Kawthar

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On 6/20/2021 at 1:21 AM, Shahrukh K said:

What dies with death You, body or Nafs ?

Why you have placed three things in your question?

Is there any difference between "you" & "nafs" in your mind?

 

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On 7/2/2021 at 8:13 PM, Shahrukh K said:

The body is just imagined.

With this statement you are questioning the whole of existence and reality.  What is the point of going down this philosophical road?  I would suggest it is because you are trying to avoid engaging with the reality of God.  He calls us to live for him in purity and uprightness.  He calls us to work on his behalf for the good and prosperity of others. 

Denying reality is trying to avoid the consequences of living for your own pleasures and ignoring God’s perfect principles.  The consequence he has proclaimed is death- separation from the source of life and love and light.

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On 7/6/2021 at 12:36 PM, Dave follower of The Way said:

With this statement you are questioning the whole of existence and reality.  What is the point of going down this philosophical road?  I would suggest it is because you are trying to avoid engaging with the reality of God.  He calls us to live for him in purity and uprightness.  He calls us to work on his behalf for the good and prosperity of others. 

 

Denying reality is trying to avoid the consequences of living for your own pleasures and ignoring God’s perfect principles.  The consequence he has proclaimed is death- separation from the source of life and love and light.

 

You believe so because you have never questioned your belief that you are the body which, obviously, is born and dies. While alive, it attracts attention and fascinates so completely that rarely does one perceive one's real nature. It is like seeing the surface of the ocean and completely forgetting the immensity beneath. The world is but the surface of the mind and the mind is infinite. What we call thoughts are just ripples in the mind. When the mind is quiet it reflects reality. When it is motionless through and through, it dissolves and only reality remains. This reality is so concrete, so actual, so much more tangible than mind and matter, that this overwhelming actuality makes the world dreamlike, misty, irrelevant.
 

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