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In the Name of God بسم الله

Does these verses not show that the prophets are higher than the Imams?

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Assalamu aleykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh. 

I know about this verse. And when Abraham was tested by his Lord with certain commands and he fulfilled them. Then He said: Lo! I appoint you an Imam for mankind.”(Qur’an 2:124).

it seems imams are higher than most prophets, but I doubt because of these verses below and also because of the different opinions of our scholars. Can you explain these verses below? 

83. "And such was Our argument which We gave to Abraham against his people. We raise up in degrees whom We please; verily your Lord is All-Wise, All-Knowing."

84. "And We bestowed upon him (Abraham) (issues like) Isac and Jacob, each one We guided; and Noah We guided before; and of his seed David and Solomon, Job and Joseph, Moses and Aron (We appointed prophets), and thus do We reward the doers of good."

85. "And Zakariya and John and Jesus and Elias; each one (of them) was of the righteous."

86. "And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot, and everyone (of them) did We prefer above all beings."

87. "And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren, and We chose them and guided them into the straight way."

88. "Such is the guidance of Allah; He guides by it whom He pleases of His servants; and if they were to associate others (with Him), certainly what they were doing would be vain for them."

89. "These are they to whom We gave the Book, the authority and the prophet hood; so if these (infidels) disbelieve in it, We have (already) entrusted with it a people who are not disbelievers in it."

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The pecking order of Islamic figures has fell to sectarian disease. If you were to ask a layman Shia why the Imams are greater than the prophets, they will go in circles. It’s quite evident that Allah preferred those whom he entrusted with his divine message over the rest of creation.

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You are absolutely correct, the Prophets are indeed of a higher status than the Imams علیهم السلام. I commend you for reading the Quran and not reading into the Quran. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Zaidism said:

You are absolutely correct, the Prophets are indeed of a higher status than the Imams علیهم السلام. I commend you for reading the Quran and not reading into the Quran. 

There are people who think that Imams are of a greater status than the Prophets?

The Prophets, all peace and blessings upon them, carried the word of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to the world. I'm legitimately curious as to why people would think that the Imams were of a higher status than them... I don't think I understand.

Edited by Abdul-Hadi
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I thought it was an established belief in twelver shi'ism that the Imams were higher in status than the prophets ?

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46 minutes ago, Abdul-Hadi said:

There are people who think that Imams are of a greater status than the Prophets?

The Prophets, all peace and blessings upon them, carried the word of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to the world. I'm legitimately curious as to why people would think that the Imams were of a higher status than them... I don't think I understand.

Our twelver brothers from the Shia maintain the latter position, as for the Zaydi Shias and the Muslims in general they affirm the former. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Dutchzahra said:

it seems imams are higher than most prophets

Take the same verse you have quoted in the beginning and question yourself:

Does Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) took tests before giving Prophethood to Ibrahim (عليه السلام)? (Like the way He took before granting him the covenant mentioned as Imamate)

Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) was a Prophet and an Imam too, so which designation is higher than the other? Imamate or Prophethood? 

I think you will reach to the answer with the help of these two question.

Now if your query is specific about the Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), you need to ask few more questions. But let me know first if you are specifically talking about them.

Regards.

Edited by Cool
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6 hours ago, 786:) said:

The pecking order of Islamic figures has fell to sectarian disease. If you were to ask a layman Shia why the Imams are greater than the prophets, they will go in circles. It’s quite evident that Allah preferred those whom he entrusted with his divine message over the rest of creation.

 

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- The Light (Noor) of the Prophet (S) and ‘Ali (عليه السلام) preceded the creation of Adam (as):

Salman al-Farsi (رضي الله عنه) narrated that:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (S) saying: "I myself, and ‘Ali were one light in the hands of Allah fourteen thousand years (14,000) before He created Adam (عليه السلام). When Allah created Adam (عليه السلام) He divided that light into two parts, one part is me and one part ‘Ali."

Sunni References:

- Mizan Al-Ei’tidal, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p235
- Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p663, Tradition #1130
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p164, v3, p154
- History of Ibn Asakir Remark: "hand of Allah”means His power. The phrase "within the hands
of Allah”means in His presence, domain, realm, kingdom.

This clearly shows that the rank of Prophet Muhammad (S) and Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) are better than any human being ever created by Allah.

- No one crosses the Path except by a passport from ‘Ali (as):

Anas Ibn Malik narrated:
"When Abu Bakr neared death,..., Abu Bakr said that he heard the Messenger of Allah (S) saying: That there is an obstacle on the Path which no one crosses unless with a passport (permission) from ‘Ali Ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام). And I heard the Messenger of Allah (S) saying: "I am the seal of the prophets and you, ‘Ali, the seal of the Awliyaa."

Sunni references:

- Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v10, p356
- al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, subheading 2, p195

Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) narrated:

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: When Allah gathers the first-ones and the last-ones on the Day of Judgment, and the Path has been erected on the bridge of Hell, no one can cross it unless he had along proof of allegiance (Wilaya) to ‘Ali Ibn Abi Talib."

Sunni reference: al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v2, p172

- ‘Ali (عليه السلام) is the divider of People to Paradise and Hell:

"The prophet (S) said to ‘Ali (as): You are the divider of Paradise and Hell on the Day of Judgment, you say to Hell: This one for me and that one for you."

Sunni reference: al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, subheading 2, p195

"‘Ali (عليه السلام) said: I am the alloter/divider of Hell."

Sunni references:
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, p402
- Radd al-Shams, by Shathan Al-Fudhaily

5 hours ago, Zaidism said:

You are absolutely correct, the Prophets are indeed of a higher status than the Imams علیهم السلام. I commend you for reading the Quran and not reading into the Quran. 

 

Salam your toughta are likewise anti shia people who call Shias as Kuffar in similar fashion on this link Shi’ism is Kufr : Imams Superior to Prophets :blabla::liar::angry:

4 hours ago, Abdul-Hadi said:

There are people who think that Imams are of a greater status than the Prophets?

The Prophets, all peace and blessings upon them, carried the word of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to the world. I'm legitimately curious as to why people would think that the Imams were of a higher status than them... I don't think I understand.

 

4 hours ago, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

I thought it was an established belief in twelver shi'ism that the Imams were higher in status than the prophets ?

 

3 hours ago, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

Could you please enligthen me as to why ? How can you say that prophets are higher in status than imams ?

Salam to all

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2- The imam (عليه السلام) is one who guides with a divine entity he bears. In essence, imamate is an authority and impact that the imam has regarding the actions of the people. His guidance isn't like that of the prophets; the prophets only advise and preach, while the imam’s guidance is to actually take the hand of his followers and help them reach the straight path. [3]

3- Prophet Isa ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), which was one of the five highest prophets (Ulul-Azm) bearing prophethood, will return during the time of Imam Mahdi (aj) and will follow him in prayer. [4]

 

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 a person who bears the truths and secrets of the names of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), but doesn’t bear prophethood, which is only a legislative rank (a rank in which allows one to legislate religious law), to be ahead of a prophet and be his guide; like the person who bears the rank of being judge, his decision has credibility and it is he who gives the final verdict, nevertheless, this rank is temporary and can always be taken away. On the other hand, there might be someone next to him that isn't a formal judge, but is more learned and has more virtues than him. Therefore, although Prophet Isa ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is a prophet and bears a legislative or tashri’i rank, thus being higher than the imam from this perspective, but the imam has generative or takwini authority which the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) doesn’t, making him higher than him, although he is one of the great Ulul-Azm prophets. [5] The fact that Prophet Musa ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) followed Khidhr ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is good proof of this matter. 

 

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sources of above post

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa6067

 

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However, comparing the “duty “of prophet and Imam is like comparing apples and oranges or is like comparing the duty of a physician and an engineer. Imamat and prophethood are totally different functions though they may gather in one person such as Prophet Muhammad or Prophet Abraham, peace be upon them.

 

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Imam means a person who is appointed by God as a leader and as a guide (see Qur’an 21:73 and 32:24) to whom obedience is due, and whom people should follow. Messengers are Warners and Imams are Guides (13:7). Imams are the Stars of Guidance (6:97).

Muhammad (S) was a Prophet, a Messenger, and an Imam. By His death the door of prophethood and messengership was closed for ever. But the door of Imamat (leadership) remained open because he had successors (Caliphs; deputies).

This clearly shows that the rank of Prophet Muhammad (S) and Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) are better than any human being ever created by Allah.

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 Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) having the highest virtues of the early great Messengers:

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: "He who wants to see Noah (عليه السلام) in his determination, Adam (عليه السلام) in his knowledge, Abraham (عليه السلام) in his clemency, Moses (عليه السلام) in his intelligence and Jesus (عليه السلام) in his religious devotion should look at ‘Ali Ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام)."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bayhaqi
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, as quoted in
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v2, p449
- Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhruddin al-Razi, under the commentary of the Verse of Impreciation (Mubilah), v2 p288. He wrote this tradition has been accpeted as all genuine.

- Ibn Batah has recorded it as a tradition related by Ibn Abbas as is stated in the book "Fat’h al-Mulk al-’Ali bi Sihah Hadith-e-Bab-e- Madinat al-Ilm", p34, by Ahmed Ibn Muhammad Ibn Siddiq al-Hasani al- Maghribi.

- Among those who have admitted that Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) is the store house of the secrets of all the Prophets is the Chief of Gnostics, Muhi al- Din al-Arabi, from whom al-Arif al-Sha’arni has copied it in his al- Yuwaqit wa al-Jawahir (p172, topic 32).

- The Light (Noor) of the Prophet (S) and ‘Ali (عليه السلام) preceded the creation of Adam (as):

Salman al-Farsi (رضي الله عنه) narrated that:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (S) saying: "I myself, and ‘Ali were one light in the hands of Allah fourteen thousand years (14,000) before He created Adam (عليه السلام). When Allah created Adam (عليه السلام) He divided that light into two parts, one part is me and one part ‘Ali."

Sunni References:

- Mizan Al-Ei’tidal, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p235
- Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p663, Tradition #1130
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p164, v3, p154
- History of Ibn Asakir Remark: "hand of Allah”means His power. The phrase "within the hands
of Allah”means in His presence, domain, realm, kingdom.

This clearly shows that the rank of Prophet Muhammad (S) and Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) are better than any human being ever created by Allah.

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/imamat-versus-prophethood-part-1

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Prophet Sulaiman (عليه السلام) in need of AhlulBait (عليه السلام)

حدثنا احمد بن محمد عن على بن الحكم عن شعيب العقرقوقى عن ابى بصير عن ابى عبد االله عليه السلام قال كان سليمان عنده اسم الله الااكبر الذى إذا سئله اعطى وإذا دعا به اجاب ولو كان اليوم لاحتاج الينا

Abu Abdullah Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said;

Prophet Suleiman (عليه السلام) had with Him the Great Name of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Whatever He asked by it, He got it, and if He supplicated by it, it got answered. And had it been today, He would be in need of Us [Ahlulbait (as)].

[Source: Basair al-Darajaat, Vol. 1, Pg. 211]

 

 

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A Jew questions Prophet Muhammad (saww)

Muammar bin Rashid Narrates from Imam Sadid (as):

عن معمر بن راشد قال سمعت أبا عبد الله الصادق ع يقول أتى يهودي النبي ص فقام بين يديه يحد النظر إليه فقال يا يهودي ما حاجتك قال أنت أفضل أم موسى بن عمران النبي الذي كلمه الله و أنزل عليه التوراة و العصا و فلق له البحر و أظله بالغمام فقال له النبي ص إنه يكره للعبد أن يزكي نفسه و لكني أقول إن آدم ع لما أصاب الخطيئة كانت توبته أن قال اللهم إني أسألك بحق محمد و آل محمد لما غفرت لي فغفرها الله له و إن نوحا لما ركب في السفينة و خاف الغرق قال اللهم إني أسألك بحق محمد و آل محمد لما أنجيتني من الغرق فنجاه الله عنه و إن إبراهيم ع لما ألقي في النار قال اللهم إني أسألك بحق محمد و آل محمد لما أنجيتني منها فجعلها الله عليه بردا و سلاما و إن موسى ع لما ألقى عصاه و أوجس في نفسه خيفة قال اللهم إني أسألك بحق محمد و آل محمد لما آمنتني فقال الله جل جلاله لا تخف إنك أنت الأعلى يا يهودي إن موسى لو أدركني ثم لم يؤمن بي و بنبوتي ما نفعه إيمانه شيئا و لا نفعته النبوة يا يهودي و من ذريتي المهدي إذا خرج نزل عيسى ابن مريم لنصرته فقدمه و صلى خلفه‏

Imam Jafar Sadiq (عليه السلام) said:

“Once a Jew came to the Prophet (saww) and stood in front of him and was staring at him.

Prophet Muhammad (saww) said, “O Jew, what do you need?”

The Jew replied, “Are you superior (the best) or Moosa bin Imran (عليه السلام) with whom Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) spoke and the Torah was revealed to him and the stick, and split the sea for him and the clouds shadowed over him.”

The Prophet (saww) said, “I do not like that a person praises himself, but I say that,

“When Adam (عليه السلام) committed the sin asked the repentance of his sin by saying, “O Allah, I ask you by the right of Muhammad (saww) and the family of Muhammad (عليه السلام) to forgive me.” And then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgave him.”

“And when Noah (عليه السلام) boarded the ship and feared that the ship would drown he said, “O Allah, I ask you by the right of Muhammad (saww) and the family of Muhammad (عليه السلام) to save me from drowning.” And then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) saved him.”

“And when Ibrahim (عليه السلام) was thrown into the fire he said, “O Allah, I ask you by the right of Muhammad (saww) and the family of Muhammad (عليه السلام) to save me from the fire.” And then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) made the fire cold and safe for him.”

“And when Moosa (عليه السلام) threw the stick and felt fear in his heart he said, “O Allah, I ask you by the right of Muhammad (saww) and the family of Muhammad (عليه السلام) to strengthen me from this fear.” And then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said to Moosa (عليه السلام), “Do not fear, for you are higher”

“O Jew, If Moosa (عليه السلام) would get to me and does not believe in me (saww) and in my Prophet hood then his faith and his Prophet hood would be of no use (benefit) to him.”

“O Jew, and when the Mehdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) from my progeny comes out, Esa bin Maryam (عليه السلام) will descend and will help Him (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) and will keep Him (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) ahead and will be pray behind Him (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف).

[Source: Amali – Sheikh Saduq Majalis.39 Hadees.4]

Note: In the above narrations, the prayers of the various Prophet’s (عليه السلام) included the name of Prophet Muhammad (saww) and Aale Muhammad (عليه السلام) and hence it clearly indicates that Prophet Muhammad (saww) and Aale Muhammad (عليه السلام) are having a higher status than the other Prophets (عليه السلام).

 

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3) Jabir bin Yazid Jo'fi asks Imam Jafar Sadiq (عليه السلام) the tafseer of the verse "Verily among his Shia is Ibrahim":

ما رواه الشيخ محمد بن الحسين رحمه الله عن محمد بن وهبان عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي بن رحيم عن العباس بن محمد قال حدثني أبي عن الحسن بن علي بن أبي حمزة قال حدثني أبي عن أبي بصير يحيى بن القاسم قال سأل جابر بن يزيد الجعفي جعفر بن محمد الصادق ع عن تفسير هذه الآية وَ إِنَّ مِنْ شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْراهِيمَ فقال ع إن الله سبحانه لما خلق إبراهيم كشف له عن بصره فنظر فرأى نورا إلى جنب العرش فقال إلهي ما هذا النور فقيل له هذا نور محمد صفوتي من خلقي و رأى نورا إلى جنبه فقال إلهي و ما هذا النور فقيل له هذا نور علي بن أبي طالب ع ناصر ديني و رأى إلى جنبهم ثلاثة أنوار فقال إلهي و ما هذه الأنوار فقيل له هذا نور فاطمة فطمت محبيها من النار و نور ولديها الحسن و الحسين فقال إلهي و أرى تسعة أنوار قد أحدقوا بهم قيل يا إبراهيم هؤلاء الأئمة من ولد علي و فاطمة فقال إبراهيم إلهي بحق هؤلاء الخمسة إلا عرفتني من التسعة .قيل يا إبراهيم أولهم علي بن الحسين و ابنه محمد و ابنه جعفر و ابنه موسى و ابنه علي و ابنه محمد و ابنه علي و ابنه الحسن و الحجة القائم ابنه فقال إبراهيم إلهي و سيدي أرى أنوارا قد أحدقوا بهم لا يحصى عددهم إلا أنت قيل يا إبراهيم هؤلاء شيعتهم شيعة أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب ع فقال إبراهيم و بما تعرف شيعته قال بصلاة إحدى و خمسين و الجهر ببسم الله الرحمن الرحيم و القنوت قبل الركوع و التختم في اليمين فعند ذلك قال إبراهيم اللهم اجعلني من شيعة أمير المؤمنين قال فأخبر الله تعالى في كتابه فقال وَ إِنَّ مِنْ شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْراهِيمَ

Jabir bin Yazid Joafi asked Imam Jafar Sadiq (عليه السلام) the interpretation of the verse "Verily among his Shia is Ibrahim".

Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) replied saying:

"Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created Ibrahim (عليه السلام) and removed the veil from his eyes. Ibrahim (عليه السلام) looked and saw a light (Noor) next to the throne and said, "My Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) what is this light?" He was told that this is the light of Muhammad (saww) the purest of my creations. Then Ibrahim (عليه السلام) saw a light next to that light (of Muhammad) and said, "My Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) what is this light?" He was told that this is the light of Ali bin Abi Talib (عليه السلام) helper of my religion. Then Ibrahim (عليه السلام) saw 3 more lights next to these 2 lights (of Muhammad and Ali) and said, "My Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and what are these lights?". He was told that this is the light of Fatima (sa) whose lovers are weaned from fire (of hell) and the light of her sons Hasan (عليه السلام) and Husain (عليه السلام). Ibrahim (عليه السلام) then said, "My Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) I see 9 lights". He was told that these are the Imams (عليه السلام) from the sons of Ali (عليه السلام) and Fatima (sa).

Then Ibrahim (عليه السلام) said, "My Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by the right of these Five, inform me about these 9 lights". He was told that the first is Ali bin Husain (عليه السلام) and then his son Muhammad (عليه السلام) and then his son Jafar (عليه السلام) and then his son Moosa (عليه السلام) and then his son Ali (عليه السلام) and then his son Muhammad (عليه السلام) and then his son Ali (عليه السلام) and then his son Hasan and then his son Qaim (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف).

Then Ibrahim (عليه السلام) said, "My Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and my Master I see lights which are countless and none knows the count but You. He was told that these are the Shias of Amir Al Momineen Ali bin Abi Talib (عليه السلام). Then Ibrahim (عليه السلام) said, "By what are the Shias known?" Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said, "By 51 rakat Prayers, saying 'BisMillah' Aloud, performing the Qunoot before Ruku and wearing rings on the right hand.

Then Ibrahim (عليه السلام) said, "O Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), make me from among the Shia of Amir Al Momineen". Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave the news of this in his book and said "Verily among his Shia is Ibrahim".

Source: Tawil Al Ayat Vol.2 Pg.495 (Sura-e-Saffat), Mustadrak Vol.4 Pg.187, Bihar Al Anwar Vol.36 Pg.151, Al Fazail Pg. 158

https://www.marefateahlebait.com/know-the-ahlul-bait/ahlulbait-and-prophets

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7 hours ago, Cool said:

Take the same verse you have quoted in the beginning and question yourself:

Does Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) took tests before giving Prophethood to Ibrahim (عليه السلام)? (Like the way He took before granting him the covenant mentioned as Imamate)

Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) was a Prophet and an Imam too, so which designation is higher than the other? Imamate or Prophethood? 

I think you will reach to the answer with the help of these two question.

Now if your query is specific about the Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), you need to ask few more questions. But let me know first if you are specifically talking about them.

Regards.

Salam aleykum. Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) was a Prophet and became an Imam. He had achieved that. Being a Imam is higher than being a prophet. Or am I wrong? 

Yes my question is. are all the 12 Imams higher than the (most) prophets? Or only Imam Ali (عليه السلام)? 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Dutchzahra said:

Being a Imam is higher than being a prophet

Yes you are correct. This is exactly the case for Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام)

And he was so amazed after receiving this covenant that he asked God to grant the same for his offspring:

وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

(Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.

22 minutes ago, Dutchzahra said:

Yes my question is. are all the 12 Imams higher than the (most) prophets? Or only Imam Ali (عليه السلام)? 

Well, lets understand the reality of 12 Imams first. Who they are? And before that understand the status of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), he is Imam ul Anbiya, Syed ul Anbiya and that makes him higher in status than rest of the Prophets (may peace & blessings of Allah be upon them all).

To understand the reality of Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), I would like to take support of few mutawatir sahih ahadith. For instance:

a) I and Ali are created from the same light.

b) Ali is from me 

c) Fatima is from me

d) Hassan is from me

e) Hussain is from me

And in last, in the hadith e kisa, there exist a phrase "innahum minni wa ana minhum" (they are from me and I am from them)

This two way "minniyat" of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the only reason which enables the shias to understand the Imams (عليه السلام) as higher in status than rest of the Prophets. 

It is this very "minniyat" of the Imams which makes them Muhammad of their times. So Imam of our time, Imam Mehdi ajtf would be representing the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and that's why Prophet Jesus (عليه السلام) will offer prayers behind him. Imam of our time (ajtf) is and will be the Imam of Prophet Jesus (عليه السلام) And that is too supported by many ahadith present in Sunni & Shi'i books.

 

Edited by Cool
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4 hours ago, Cool said:

Yes you are correct. This is exactly the case for Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام)

And he was so amazed after receiving this covenant that he asked God to grant the same for his offspring:

وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

(Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.

Well, lets understand the reality of 12 Imams first. Who they are? And before that understand the status of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), he is Imam ul Anbiya, Syed ul Anbiya and that makes him higher in status than rest of the Prophets (may peace & blessings of Allah be upon them all).

To understand the reality of Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), I would like to take support of few mutawatir sahih ahadith. For instance:

a) I and Ali are created from the same light.

b) Ali is from me 

c) Fatima is from me

d) Hassan is from me

e) Hussain is from me

And in last, in the hadith e kisa, there exist a phrase "innahum minni wa ana minhum" (they are from me and I am from them)

This two way "minniyat" of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the only reason which enables the shias to understand the Imams (عليه السلام) as higher in status than rest of the Prophets. 

It is this very "minniyat" of the Imams which makes them Muhammad of their times. So Imam of our time, Imam Mehdi ajtf would be representing the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and that's why Prophet Jesus (عليه السلام) will offer prayers behind him. Imam of our time (ajtf) is and will be the Imam of Prophet Jesus (عليه السلام) And that is too supported by many ahadith present in Sunni & Shi'i books.

 

Thank you for the great explanation. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you. 

Are all the 12 Imams also better than the 5 Ulul Amr Nabis? Or only the Ahlalbait (عليه السلام)? 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Mohamad Abdel-Hamid said:

I thought it was an established belief in twelver shi'ism that the Imams were higher in status than the prophets ?

No, it is a debatable matter, some twelvers believe so and others no. I really don’t even care who is higher than other, all of them served God and followed His commands. We are all eager to meet them and have talk and eat with them all together in Jannah.

Edited by Abu Nur
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52 minutes ago, Dutchzahra said:

Are all the 12 Imams also better than the 5 Ulul Amr Nabis? Or only the Ahlalbait (عليه السلام)? 

Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Jesus (عليه السلام) are among those 5 Ulul Azm Prophets. 

Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is Imam of Anbiya & Mursaleen. He holds greatest status among all the Prophets. Our understanding of Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is that they all are Muhammad of their times, as the famous hadith says about 14 infallibles "Awwalona Muhammad, Awsatona Muhammad, Aakhirona Muhammad, Kullona Muhammad" (first of us is Muhammad, middle of us is Muhammad, last of us is Muhammad, all of us are Muhammad). 

So keeping in view this specific status of 14 infallibles which include 12 Imams and the fact that the Imams are the bearers of "minniyat" of Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as well as the narrations which mention that one Ulul Azm Nabi (Jesus) will offer prayers in the Imamate of Imam Mehdi ajtf, we can say that the status of Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is greater than the 4 Ulul Azm Prophets. 

Wassalam!!

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25 minutes ago, Cool said:

Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Jesus (عليه السلام) are among those 5 Ulul Azm Prophets. 

Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is Imam of Anbiya & Mursaleen. He holds greatest status among all the Prophets. Our understanding of Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is that they all are Muhammad of their times, as the famous hadith says about 14 infallibles "Awwalona Muhammad, Awsatona Muhammad, Aakhirona Muhammad, Kullona Muhammad" (first of us is Muhammad, middle of us is Muhammad, last of us is Muhammad, all of us are Muhammad). 

So keeping in view this specific status of 14 infallibles which include 12 Imams and the fact that the Imams are the bearers of "minniyat" of Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as well as the narrations which mention that one Ulul Azm Nabi (Jesus) will offer prayers in the Imamate of Imam Mehdi ajtf, we can say that the status of Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is greater than the 4 Ulul Azm Prophets. 

Wassalam!!

Now I understand it much better. Thank you so much. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you. 

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13 hours ago, Dutchzahra said:

Now I understand it much better. Thank you so much. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you. 

Alhamdulillah!!! 

Here is another hadith for you:

Quote

Imam al-Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) said, ‘Verily Allah, Blessed and most High, took Abraham [Prophet Abraham ((عليه السلام).) is known in the Arabic tradition as Abraham (ed.)] as a slave before He took him as a prophet, and verily Allah took him as a prophet before He took him as an apostle, And verily Allah took him as an apostle before He took him as a friend. And verily Allah took him as a friend before He made him an Imam. And when all these ranks came together in him, He said, “I am making you the Imam of mankind.”[al-Kafi, v. 1, p. 175, no. 2]

 

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47 minutes ago, Dutchzahra said:

Are there Sunni (Sahih) Hadith about this too? 

Please don't ask me about the status of their Imams (Like Abu Hanifa....etc). 

For Imam Medi (ajtf), they do have ahadith in their books mentioning Jesus (عليه السلام) will offer salah in the Imamate of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام).

I don't want to say anything more than that.

 

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