Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

thoughts on raza of bayt al ghadeer adopting more sunni-centric beliefs?

Rate this topic


zahralzu

Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

These are not Sunni centric beliefs. These are beliefs from Ahlulbayt. Early sources and Zaidi scholarship have been propogating the message that the Qur'an is clear from day 1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Psychological Warfare

If people make a big fuss and utilize all available means to generate intense pressure on a minority. It does work, and they get some low hanging fruit. 

It mentions the puritan type group among the muslims. The Book , is very important. 

What I don't understand is that, Allah( عزّ وجلّ) Message in the Book, Muhammad al- Mustafa( peace be upon him and his pure progeny) is HIS(عزّ وجلّ) Messenger, Who delivered HIS(عزّ وجلّ) Message. 

Logically, The Messenger from Allah(عزّ وجلّ) delivering HIS(عزّ وجلّ) Word/Message- The Messenger is Important. Apparently, Message is pure and protected and the Messenger? Only when delivering the Message, clause just undermines the Messenger and this is why it is easy to sell the Book is sufficient conjecture. 

Laser focus on Tawheed, Book is sufficient. Tawheed delivered to the pagans thru Muhammad al-Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) or they and us would  have stayed in ignorance. 

I do not buy this marketing of Tawheed with out Muhammad al-Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny), because anyone can define tahweed as they wish the way, Book is sufficient worked, personal conjecture and the book can be interpreted many ways. This is a very dangerous trend. 

Under the guise of Tawheed/Pure Tawheed we can't undermine the status/authority/obedience/Most importantly Remembrance to/of  Muhammad al-Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny).

Because Truth has come and falsehood is ever fading, we did not put the book in the Kaaba and the idols fell. nor the book will do the job of the awaited Al Mahdi(عليه السلام) . Mute Book needs  a walking/taking book to accomplish the work. 

unless we are just looking for rituals of prayer, fasting, reciting, hajj and just a personal connection with our version of who the Author of the book is. This is what all religions have been reduced to . A spiritual connection with "MY" god. This will undermine the Message but it will never ever happen. Karbala insured it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Psychological Warfare

Both of you are brothers in kind. Propagating the fallible Jurist of Islamic law as imams or fallible political leadership as imams/khalifa. 

Mute Book and the walking/taking book and Intellect will tell you that No human can rule over another human. Sovereignty over human only belong to his Creator or ones appointed by Him.  That is Real Tawheed, not Saqifa style tawheed. That is idolworship. ( Idol of our desire). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Better to watch the entire broadcast uncut then manipulative spin doctoring version at 'Wahhabi Defense' I think Raza's just going through a rebellious phase

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

 السلام على من اتبع الهدى

Not mentioned on the video, but I wonder if he was radicalised by reading shiachat.

He isn't the only one, there is also the other brother, I can't recall his name, he refused to debate Farid - he also seems to have gone to a pre-Safavid type of Shiaism but he used to be deep in with the YH gang.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I think in these times if resources available and social media. People want answers if conclusion and theories are reached. Blind following of scholars doesn't cut it any more. So scholars need to give clear answers and methodology. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Psychological Warfare

ذَٰلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًى لِلْمُتَّقِينَ {2}

[Shakir 2:2] This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).
[Pickthal 2:2] This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
[Yusufali 2:2] This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنْفِقُونَ {3}

[Shakir 2:3] Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them.
[Pickthal 2:3] Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them;
[Yusufali 2:3] Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

-----

People who are already looking for the Guidance/Truth not for ones looking to subvert the truth to their advantage. They are moved away from the right path as they increase in their quest to subvert it. 

Book of Guidance Not a book to inform 2+2=4. -We are used to secular system and search for material/knowledge which could be obtained thru sight/touch/hearing- Observation in the Material World. We call this quest- Science. 

The Search for the Truth( Sciences) which do Not rely on Observation from Senses. Approach is different. Approaching Realities Not bound/Out of Domain of Only Material domain with the same Method/demanding same level of proof is utter ignorance. 

Higher Realities are Not for Philosophical / Scientific Communities Only, They are very simple logical/rational proofs which a average human can obtain. Religion is for ALL humanity not for the select few with degrees and phd's . I did not create myself nor what is around me. Hence Someone did. How is secondary, this is where they trap people, in technical issues, in mundane things to keep them spinning. 

Similarly, Major question related to Fundamentals of Religion- Tawheed, Prophethood, Imamate, Day of Judgement have been answered and Not the job of the Marja, as far as Taqlid is concerned which is related to acts. 

If people can't or will not acknowledge the infallibility , why are they concerned with Waliyah Takawani or Istagisha or Tawassul . It is like someone having middle school knowledge of Physics wants to fully understand special relativity . This is against common sense. 

So, most of what has been highlighted is a smoke screen, most don't have basic knowledge but want to understand special relativity. The nature of the secular world I want to know all. Yes, baby steps. You have to complete 12 grades before they let you in a Collage/University, you you can understand Higher levels.  You have to have knowledge of the alphabet, before you can make a word, and use them in a cohesive sentence. Person have no clue about the alphabet but want to have a phd in grammar. learn the alpha bet first, second learn who to make words ....

Basically, all the noise on the net is because layman can be conned by highwire acts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Psychological Warfare
23 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Better to watch the entire broadcast uncut then manipulative spin doctoring version at 'Wahhabi Defense' I think Raza's just going through a rebellious phase

 

Having uncertainty, doubts or Agnostic view is Only allowed, if you are on a learning curve and struggling to get to the answer. Uncertainty/Doubt/Agnostic view as the last stop - final decision - is what is Not allowed. More importantly, broadcasting these doubts/uncertainties/Agnostic views - Purpose ? plus knowing/aware that they will be used by the enemies to misguide. Gives me insight into the person, and I have no confidence if this person can't understand the basic reality - the consequences of the action. I really doubt that the mental capacity is their to understand higher concepts in religion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

Basically, all the noise on the net is because layman can be conned by highwire acts. 

True brother alot of misguided noise around. That's why the need for clear evidence is required. Not conjecture and long winded posts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

 

Similarly, Major question related to Fundamentals of Religion- Tawheed, Prophethood, Imamate, Day of Judgement have been answered and Not the job of the Marja, 

Marja equals most knowledgable to follow in fiqh right ?

No blind following in Aqeeda. ?

Therefore you need to know the marja aqeeda and at least an overview of methodology to know if he is knowledgable.

Is the aqeeda of sheikh Sadoiq ? Sheikh Bahrani ?, Sheikh Majlis ?i etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Psychological Warfare

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/taqlid

fyi

Quote

1. It is necessary for a Muslim to believe in the fundamentals of faith on the basis of proof and he cannot follow anyone in this respect i.e. he cannot accept he word of another with regard to the fundamentals without demanding proof.

However, in order to act on Islamic code (except in those matters which are considered by all to be indisputable e.g. the obligatory nature of the five daily prayers, fasting during the holy month of Ramadan etc.) a person must adopt one of the following methods:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...
  • Advanced Member

Ziryab Jamal is the one who posts a lot of Ayatollah Kamal Haydari’s videos on  YouTube.

Raza’s views on sahaba is unfortunately misguided. I came from a Sunni background and someone like Sheikh Farhan Al-Malikihas exposed some of the sahabas. is Raza saying that people like Khalid Al-Walid should be viewed in a respectable way? Khalid is filth, and I don’t even like Yassir H.’ s group, so I’m not even close to that side of the extreme.

Edited by 145_turbo_16V
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
  • Advanced Member
On 6/9/2021 at 11:56 AM, 786:) said:

For example, Allah is all hearing and omnipresent. Giving this attribute to other than Allah is shirk and ghuluw

Then how does Prophet Muhammad return 1.7 billion salaams (five times a day, everyday) of believers who offer salat? Also, giving life falls under the jurisdiction of Allah and Allah alone...does it not? yet Jesus has been endowed with the ability to resurrect the dead (Lazarus) and give life through his breath (clay pigeons)...prophets and "saints" have been given a lot it seems...and I do mean A LOT!!! The blessings they have been bestowed with are obviously vast. Both sides of this argument agree that the power granted is eventually capped off somewhere or at some point...the question then becomes "where" or at "what point"??

Edited by Eddie Mecca
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Then how does Prophet Muhammad return 1.7 billion salaams (five times a day, everyday) of believers who offer salat? Also, giving life falls under the jurisdiction of Allah and Allah alone...does it not? yet Jesus has been endowed with the ability to resurrect the dead (Lazarus) and give life through his breath (clay pigeons)...prophets and "saints" have been given a lot it seems...and I do mean A LOT!!! The blessings they have been bestowed with are obviously vast. Both sides of this argument agree that the power granted is eventually capped off somewhere or at some point...the question then becomes "where" or at "what point"??

The prophets as are a higher status than a wali or average believer whom the imams come under.

The power granted from the will of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to the prophets ends when the prophet as passes away at that point no more revelation or miracles of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) until another prophet.

Dont confuse imams as prophets for the imams ain’t chosen unless you can provide a crisp clear evidence for such until then don’t follow assumptions and ideas based on flimsiest of evidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Imams are not prophets, I don't know why anyone would think people are confused about it. They're clearly NOT confused. The Imams don't receive wahi, but who says they are lower or higher than a given prophet (SA)? Khidr, who some say is and some isn't a prophet, clearly knew a lot more than Nabi Musa (عليه السلام) in SOME ASPECTS. But when it comes to shariah, Nabi Musa (عليه السلام) had the authority. Khidr taught Musa (عليه السلام), why would Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allow that if Nabi Must (عليه السلام) was superior in ALL aspects? The only human being I know who is superior than ALL other beings is Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and next to him (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was Ali (عليه السلام). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

 

On 6/9/2021 at 8:56 PM, 786:) said:

Minimizing Tawheed—giving ghayrullah the attributes of Allah. This waters down the greatness and uniqueness of Allah. For example, Allah is all hearing and omnipresent. Giving this attribute to other than Allah is shirk and ghuluw. Nowhere has Allah mentioned in the Quran that creation shares this trait with him. And he condemns those who try to set up partners with him and his traits. You cannot deny that there are jahils in our communities who ask for rizq and children from Imams. This is ghuluw. If you were to ask a random sample of Shias today to tell you the difference between Allah and the Imams, they will struggle to find a difference. This is ghuluw.

They will say Imams don't create anything, that's the only difference between Allah and the Imams. :)

As for a layman, just the shabih of Zuljanah has authority to grant such mundane wishes as sons and wealth.  When talking about rejecting the shia beliefs, some of the practices make much of the reason in people wanting to leave..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Advanced Member
On 11/22/2021 at 6:15 AM, sargardan said:

 

They will say Imams don't create anything, that's the only difference between Allah and the Imams. :)

As for a layman, just the shabih of Zuljanah has authority to grant such mundane wishes as sons and wealth.  When talking about rejecting the shia beliefs, some of the practices make much of the reason in people wanting to leave..

lol. Well Shiaism has sort of found new life from the subcontinent. Most of the khurafaat we see these days originate from there such as the Zuljinah. They picked it up from their Hindu counterparts--substituted the cow with a horse.

Edited by 786:)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...