Why do we say 'peace be upon you, oh prophet' in our prayer?

[zahralzu]

If speaking directly to the prophet requires him to be listening then is this not attributing to him omnipresence; a divine characteristic?

The sunni explanation is the presence of an angel taking this blessing of ours to the prophet every time, I was wondering if the shii explanation was any different? 

Thanks!

[Tabassum Iman]

As-salam alaykom,

I will try to help you understand so that it is easy for you to ask your Prophet Muhammed Sallalahu alais wa Sallam for help.

Let's say that Allah Ta'ala gave Prophet Muhammed (SAS) a Divinely made telephone system that his followers can use to call him for help.

They call him using this system and he hears and responds with the help they have asked for. The Prophet Sallalahu alais wa Sallam is closer to the ground; He is closer to you and he, as an Intercessor, can Approach Our Divine Lord for us, as needed.

It is the job of our Prophet to help us.

WE CAN PRAISE OUR DIVINE LORD ALLAH SUBHANAHU WA TA'ALA AS MUCH WE WANT.

Praising our Lord is something and asking for help or clarifying things is something else; this is where many get confused.

Our DIVINE Lord works with His Prophets.

 

Take this test:

A.1 Imagine you are writing a story about your life as a Muslim. 

Write every word as if Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala is watching and listening to you.

Write some sentences....

 

A.3 Imagine you are writing a story about your life as a Muslim.

Write every word as if Prophet Muhammed Sallalahu alaihis wa Sallam is watching and listening to you.

Write some sentences...

 

Can you perceive the difference? Can you perceive how close Prophet Muhammed Sallalahu alais wa Sallam is to us?

 

May Allah Ta'ala make it easy for you!

[Ali_Hussain]

44 minutes ago, Tabassum Iman said:

As-salam alaykom,

I will try to help you understand so that it is easy for you to ask your Prophet Muhammed Sallalahu alais wa Sallam for help.

Let's say that Allah Ta'ala gave Prophet Muhammed (SAS) a Divinely made telephone system that his followers can use to call him for help.

They call him using this system and he hears and responds with the help they have asked for. The Prophet Sallalahu alais wa Sallam is closer to the ground; He is closer to you and he, as an Intercessor, can Approach Our Divine Lord for us, as needed.

It is the job of our Prophet to help us.

WE CAN PRAISE OUR DIVINE LORD ALLAH SUBHANAHU WA TA'ALA AS MUCH WE WANT.

Praising our Lord is something and asking for help or clarifying things is something else; this is where many get confused.

Our DIVINE Lord works with His Prophets.

 

Take this test:

A.1 Imagine you are writing a story about your life as a Muslim. 

Write every word as if Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala is watching and listening to you.

Write some sentences....

 

A.3 Imagine you are writing a story about your life as a Muslim.

Write every word as if Prophet Muhammed Sallalahu alaihis wa Sallam is watching and listening to you.

Write some sentences...

 

Can you perceive the difference? Can you perceive how close Prophet Muhammed Sallalahu alais wa Sallam is to us?

 

May Allah Ta'ala make it easy for you!

 

Actually according to multiple narrations the Prophet (s) doesn't hear our salams, he is aware of them, but not through hearing.

[MexicanVato]

2 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Actually according to multiple narrations the Prophet (s) doesn't hear our salams, he is aware of them, but not through hearing.

What difference would it make if he hears physically or not as long as he is aware. 

[Ali_Hussain]

1 minute ago, MexicanVato said:

What difference would it make if he hears physically or not as long as he is aware. 

None, unless you are trying to prove that he is all-hearing, which according to narrations he isn't. Yet people still claim that he is.

[Tabassum Iman]

3 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Actually according to multiple narrations the Prophet (s) doesn't hear our salams, he is aware of them, but not through hearing.

Yes, that is what I mean, but when we say Hear your request and Aware of your request... it seems different to the asker.

Hear you request is certain of an action, but Aware of your request seems like a possible delay or no answer.

[Tabassum Iman]

On 5/22/2021 at 2:27 PM, Ali_Hussain said:

None, unless you are trying to prove that he is all-hearing, which according to narrations he isn't. Yet people still claim that he is.

Prophet Muhammed (SAWS) is not All Hearing. All Hearing is for Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala's entire Creation. They all have their own Messengers.

Prophet Muhammed (SAWS) does not hear/aware of requests from non- Muslims.

He only answers calls from Muslims.

[Ali_Hussain]

34 minutes ago, Tabassum Iman said:

Yes, that is what I mean, but when we say Hear your request and Aware of your request... it seems different to the asker.

Hear you request is certain of an action, but Aware of your request seems like a possible delay or no answer.

Not really because the argument is that because he (s) is made aware of our salams or our good or bad deeds then that also means that you can make requests of him and he is also aware of them, but that is a stretch because there is no proof for that in the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt (a). What is certain and proved from narrations is that they can not hear calls from afar.

[Tabassum Iman]

You and I are on different roads. Probably they all end up at the same place. I wish you a safe journey.

[Sabrejet]

Hearing our salams != he's All-Hearing. Going by that logic, calling someone merciful means you are committing shirk, because only Allah is  Most Merciful. There's a subtle difference. I've seen this argument repeated hundreds of times on these forums, and each time, we have someone jumping straight to the "he hears means you are calling him All-Hearing" fallacy.

[shia8]

1 hour ago, Ali_Hussain said:

unless you are trying to prove that he is all-hearing, which according to narrations he isn't

Well,even if he hears us when we do Tawassul or send Salawat,this doesn’t mean he’s all-hearing.

All-Hearing means to hear everything,even very unimportant things.If someone says he hears Salawat,that’s because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) makes him hear some things.

 

I don’t know,whether the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) hears or is aware of our Salawats,but even if he hears them,this  doesn’t mean that he’s all-hearing.

[Tabassum Iman]

1 hour ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Not really because the argument is that because he (s) is made aware of our salams or our good or bad deeds then that also means that you can make requests of him and he is also aware of them, but that is a stretch because there is no proof for that in the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt (a). What is certain and proved from narrations is that they can not hear calls from afar.

 

55 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Hearing our salams != he's All-Hearing. Going by that logic, calling someone merciful means you are committing shirk, because only Allah is  Most Merciful. There's a subtle difference. I've seen this argument repeated hundreds of times on these forums, and each time, we have someone jumping straight to the "he hears means you are calling him All-Hearing" fallacy.

 The problem is that Dajjal impersonates God (pretends to be God). S/he is so extremely jealous of Prophet Muhammed Sallalahu alais wa Sallam, and Prophet Muhammed (SAWS) catches her/him impersonating God in the slightest word. What does guilty and jealous Dajjal do? turns the argument around and projects onto Prophet Muhammed (SAWS)! 

Allah Subhanhu wa Ta'ala works with His Prophets (عليه السلام).

 

Dajjal is a pretender and contender. He is a Guesser. He doesn't Know anything.

[Tabassum Iman]

It could also mean that we should use the Duas from the Prophet (SAS) as he gave them to us, our Imams, the Holy Quran and Ahlul Bayt.

As they know best how to say the correct words.

I was taught that it is better to use the Duas that we were given in our Prayer Books and not to write our own, because we do not know how to approach Our Divine Lord. Our Prophet, Our Ahlul Bayt, Our Imams and Our Quran know best how to say things.

And we can also ask Our Prophet for help whenever we need him. Ya Muhammed, My Beloved Prophet, Please help me!

[layman]

10 hours ago, zahralzu said:

If speaking directly to the prophet requires him to be listening then is this not attributing to him omnipresence; a divine characteristic?

The sunni explanation is the presence of an angel taking this blessing of ours to the prophet every time, I was wondering if the shii explanation was any different? 

Thanks!

Salam,

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His Angels make salawats to Prophet...we are asked to do that all the times including in doas and prayer.

How the Prophet made aware salawats from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Angels and us, is something that only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) know the mechanism or the means.

Now, i am going to tell my personal experience.  When I was 12 years old and was lying on my bed, all of sudden my breathing stopped and became unconscious. At that moment a new world (reality) show up and I was at a very nice area.  I look to the right side of my shoulder, and at an instance i saw and made aware all my goods that i did since i was born.  When l look to my left, i saw all the wrongs i did.  I beg Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to return me back so i can make up all the wrong things i did.

How Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) made me aware at an instance all the past actions i did...i don't know.  But, all i knew that time, i knew all i did and i know i have to fix myself.

I can only speak on myself based on my personal experience that the Prophet is made aware of our salawats made by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Angels and us.  I cannot use my experience to convince others.

But, i can assured everyone that at the moment of death, all of will know where we are heading, hell or heaven. All will be apparently clear at an instance. 

That salawats to the Prophet can help us so we won't be alone in the barzakh and hereafter.

Wallahualam.

[Sumerian]

8 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Not really because the argument is that because he (s) is made aware of our salams or our good or bad deeds then that also means that you can make requests of him and he is also aware of them, but that is a stretch because there is no proof for that in the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt (a). What is certain and proved from narrations is that they can not hear calls from afar.

It is clear that they (عليه السلام) can hear us directly when are near their graves.

What is also the belief of Shaykh Al-Mufid (rah) is that they recieve and are made aware of the munajaat of the Shi'a to them from afar.

Which means we can do more than just send salams to them, we can actually conversate with them, which is what we do in our ziyaraat. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

12 hours ago, Tabassum Iman said:

Prophet Muhammed (SAWS) is not All Hearing. All Hearing is for Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala's entire Creation. They all have their own Messengers.

Prophet Muhammed (SAWS) does not hear/aware of requests from non- Muslims.

He only answers calls from Muslims.

 

Salam he is no All Hearing but can be aware of whole of creation by premision  of Allah but he can hear or aware from anyone even non muslims because in holy Quran he mentioned  as blessing for all of world not just muslims as now Imam Mahdi (aj) can hear & respond to call of everyone  even they will be non muslims.

[Ali_Hussain]

On 5/23/2021 at 5:29 AM, Sumerian said:

It is clear that they (عليه السلام) can hear us directly when are near their graves.

What is also the belief of Shaykh Al-Mufid (rah) is that they recieve and are made aware of the munajaat of the Shi'a to them from afar.

Which means we can do more than just send salams to them, we can actually conversate with them, which is what we do in our ziyaraat. 

It may be the belief of the shaykh, but what is the hadith that he uses as proof? 

Here is a sahih hadith which says what I am saying:

عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ زِيَادِ بْنِ أَبِي الْحَلَّالِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ مَا مِنْ نَبِيٍّ وَ لَا وَصِيِّ نَبِيٍّ يَبْقَى فِي الْأَرْضِ أَكْثَرَ مِنْ ثَلَاثَةِ أَيَّامٍ حَتَّى تُرْفَعَ رُوحُهُ وَ عَظْمُهُ وَ لَحْمُهُ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ وَ إِنَّمَا تُؤْتَى مَوَاضِعُ آثَارِهِمْ وَ يُبَلِّغُونَهُمْ مِنْ بَعِيدٍ السَّلَامَ وَ يُسْمِعُونَهُمْ فِي مَوَاضِعِ آثَارِهِمْ مِنْ قَرِيبٍ
 

From Ziyaad bin Abee Al-Hilaal from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام): “There is neither a prophet nor successor of a prophet who remains on earth for more than three days. Thereafter, his soul, flesh and bones are taken up to the heavens. Furthermore, going to places which their marks are located, and conveying salaams to them from afar. They (will) hear from the places which have their marks (as if they were) nearby.”

http://www.revivingalislam.com/search?q=salaams

After that you can easily find other narrations that make a clear distinction between being near or far and which lend weight to the opinion that it is the salam that is being conveyed from afar, like this one from al-Kafi:

 It is narrated from Sadir who narrated from Imam Sadeq (عليه السلام) who said: O’ Sadir, do you perform Ziarat Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) everyday? I replied: No. Imam (عليه السلام) said: You are not doing the right thing! Do you perform Ziarat every month? I replied: No, Imam (عليه السلام) asked again: Do you go to pilgrimage every year? I replied: No. Imam Sadeq (عليه السلام) said: O’ Sadir, how inattentive and unwilling you are?! Don’t you know that God appointed thousands and thousands of angels, they are all grieved and covered in dust, and constantly crying for Imam Hussain (AS); and they constantly perform Ziarat and do not get tired? What will happen if you perform Ziarat of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) 5 times a week or every day? I replied: But there is a long distance between the grave of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and me. Imam (عليه السلام) said: Go on the roof of your house, look right and look left, and then raise your head towards the sky, and after that, look and pay attention towards the grave of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and say: “Assalaamu Alayk ya Aba-Abdellah, Assalaamu Alayk wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuh”, in this way, this deed will be counted as performing one Ziarat for you. And every Ziarat, has the rewards of one Hajj, and one Omrah. After that day, I have been performing this deed (Ziarat of Imam Hussain (AS)), at least 20 times a month [1].

[1] Al-Kafi, Vol. 4, Page 589, Hadith 8.

https://en.shafaqna.com/54822/simplest-way-perform-ziarat-imam-hussain-everyday/

If they really could just hear anything, even indirectly, why the difference in the wording of the ziyara from afar?

 

[Sumerian]

50 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

It may be the belief of the shaykh, but what is the hadith that he uses as proof? 

Here is a sahih hadith which says what I am saying:

عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ زِيَادِ بْنِ أَبِي الْحَلَّالِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ مَا مِنْ نَبِيٍّ وَ لَا وَصِيِّ نَبِيٍّ يَبْقَى فِي الْأَرْضِ أَكْثَرَ مِنْ ثَلَاثَةِ أَيَّامٍ حَتَّى تُرْفَعَ رُوحُهُ وَ عَظْمُهُ وَ لَحْمُهُ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ وَ إِنَّمَا تُؤْتَى مَوَاضِعُ آثَارِهِمْ وَ يُبَلِّغُونَهُمْ مِنْ بَعِيدٍ السَّلَامَ وَ يُسْمِعُونَهُمْ فِي مَوَاضِعِ آثَارِهِمْ مِنْ قَرِيبٍ
 

From Ziyaad bin Abee Al-Hilaal from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام): “There is neither a prophet nor successor of a prophet who remains on earth for more than three days. Thereafter, his soul, flesh and bones are taken up to the heavens. Furthermore, going to places which their marks are located, and conveying salaams to them from afar. They (will) hear from the places which have their marks (as if they were) nearby.”

http://www.revivingalislam.com/search?q=salaams

After that you can easily find other narrations that make a clear distinction between being near or far and which lend weight to the opinion that it is the salam that is being conveyed from afar, like this one from al-Kafi:

 It is narrated from Sadir who narrated from Imam Sadeq (عليه السلام) who said: O’ Sadir, do you perform Ziarat Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) everyday? I replied: No. Imam (عليه السلام) said: You are not doing the right thing! Do you perform Ziarat every month? I replied: No, Imam (عليه السلام) asked again: Do you go to pilgrimage every year? I replied: No. Imam Sadeq (عليه السلام) said: O’ Sadir, how inattentive and unwilling you are?! Don’t you know that God appointed thousands and thousands of angels, they are all grieved and covered in dust, and constantly crying for Imam Hussain (AS); and they constantly perform Ziarat and do not get tired? What will happen if you perform Ziarat of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) 5 times a week or every day? I replied: But there is a long distance between the grave of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and me. Imam (عليه السلام) said: Go on the roof of your house, look right and look left, and then raise your head towards the sky, and after that, look and pay attention towards the grave of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and say: “Assalaamu Alayk ya Aba-Abdellah, Assalaamu Alayk wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuh”, in this way, this deed will be counted as performing one Ziarat for you. And every Ziarat, has the rewards of one Hajj, and one Omrah. After that day, I have been performing this deed (Ziarat of Imam Hussain (AS)), at least 20 times a month [1].

[1] Al-Kafi, Vol. 4, Page 589, Hadith 8.

https://en.shafaqna.com/54822/simplest-way-perform-ziarat-imam-hussain-everyday/

If they really could just hear anything, even indirectly, why the difference in the wording of the ziyara from afar?

 

Maybe you didn't read my comment properly brother, I said they can hear near their graves, and are made aware from afar and reaches them.

My point is we can conversate with them from afar and not simply convey salams, this isn't a big deal at all.

As far as how they are made aware of this, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows. 

This isn't simply the belief of Shaykh Al-Mufid (rah) alone, he himself says he doesn't know any difference of opinion on this matter except from some Imami ulama from Nawbakht. 

Shaykh Al-Tusi (rah) also confirmed this belief. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Sumerian

[Ali_Hussain]

53 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Maybe you didn't read my comment properly brother, I said they can hear near their graves, and are made aware from afar and reaches them.

My point is we can conversate with them from afar and not simply convey salams, this isn't a big deal at all.

As far as how they are made aware of this, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows. 

This isn't simply the belief of Shaykh Al-Mufid (rah) alone, he himself says he doesn't know any difference of opinion on this matter except from some Imami ulama from Nawbakht. 

Shaykh Al-Tusi (rah) also confirmed this belief. 

Yeah sure I read that, but the narration they he quoted uses the same verbs as in the one from the first link that I quoted, so his proof isn't really very strong.

I agree that generally it isn't really an issue, except when people (as they do) extrapolate crazy beliefs that simply aren't found in the narrations that they are basing them on.

[Sumerian]

36 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Yeah sure I read that, but the narration they he quoted uses the same verbs as in the one from the first link that I quoted, so his proof isn't really very strong.

I agree that generally it isn't really an issue, except when people (as they do) extrapolate crazy beliefs that simply aren't found in the narrations that they are basing them on.

Proof is in the pudding, where even in our ziyaraat we still conversate with them from afar, and our classical scholars had no issue with this practice at all, and included this in their books with no hesitation. 

Here is Al-Tusi making the same claim:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235004867-beliefs-of-the-jahiliyya-arabs/?do=findComment&comment=2456312

I agree with you that we shouldn't treat it like a Du'a.

[Ali_Hussain]

On 6/3/2021 at 12:16 AM, Sumerian said:

Proof is in the pudding, where even in our ziyaraat we still conversate with them from afar, and our classical scholars had no issue with this practice at all, and included this in their books with no hesitation. 

Here is Al-Tusi making the same claim:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235004867-beliefs-of-the-jahiliyya-arabs/?do=findComment&comment=2456312

I agree with you that we shouldn't treat it like a Du'a.

I think that we are just going to keep going back and forth, but shaykh al-Tusi clearly does not share the opinion of shaykh al-Mufid - if you want to establish that that opinion is the correct one, you need to address the reason why the language in the hadith is different when the salam is sent from near or far. If you remove al-Mufid's name from his opinion, the argument is worthless because neither the hadith he quoted nor the verse say what he is saying.

Here is the opinion of al-sharif al-Murtadha:

مسألة سابعة عشر (الأئمة عليهم السلام حي يشاهدوننا) مولانا أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام حي يشاهدنا ويسمع كلامنا أم ميت؟
الجواب:
الأئمة الماضون عليهم السلام، والمؤمنون ينعمون ويرزقون، فإذا زيرت قبورهم، أو صلي عليهم، أبلغهم الله ذلك، أو أعلمهم به، فكانوا بالاجماع له سامعين مشاهدين

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/19_رسائل-المرتضى-الشريف-المرتضى-ج-١/الصفحة_311

Issue 17 - (the Imams (a) are living and see us/are witnesses over us):

Q: Our master Amir al-Mu'minin (a) is (he) living and sees us and hears our words or he is dead?

A: The past Imam (a) and the believers receive blessings and sustenance, if their graves are visited or they are prayed upon, Allah makes it reach them or informs them of it. So there is consensus that they hear and see (? or however you want to translate the last bit)

Do you really think that the sayed believes that you can have a conversation with them from anywhere about anything? He shows a lot of academic integrity in answering the question because he is sticking to what the narrations on the subject say. In fact even I go further than him because (even though I haven't given it too much thought) I have no issue with them having direct hearing from the locations of their graves because the hadith say that. The sayed doesn't seem to be saying that because his answer is very limited in scope.

The bottom line is that all you can establish through quoting scholars who give an opinion or even if you want, an explanation, is that that is their personal belief. You can't establish that that is the "correct belief" because they haven't given any proof for it. (I'm talking especially about shaykh al-Mufid's opnion, not al-Tusi's)

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Ali_Hussain

[Sumerian]

14 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I think that we are just going to keep going back and forth, but shaykh al-Tusi clearly does not share the opinion of shaykh al-Mufid - if you want to establish that that opinion is the correct one, you need to address the reason why the language in the hadith is different when the salam is sent from near or far.

Yes, we established that salam from near and afar is different, because the Imams (عليه السلام) can hear directly when one is near their graves, but this isn't the case from afar. Who is arguing against that?

My point is that our calls to them can reach them, by Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) permission, and Shaykh Al-Tusi (rah) affirmed that when he gave the green light to talking with the Imam (عليه السلام) from afar, otherwise how else do you characterise the ziyarah which he mentioned, where we are asking the Imam (عليه السلام) from afar to intercede for us? This is called a conversation my friend.

There is no difference between what Al-Mufid said or what Al-Tusi said in essence.

As for what Sayyed Al-Murtadha (rah) said, there is nothing to suggest that what he is saying means he doesn't believe Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) doesn't allow our Imams (عليه السلام) to hear us indirectly from afar.

You still haven't answered me, what do you make of the ziyaraat which are said from afar, where we directly conversate with the Imams (عليه السلام)?

Just one example;

محمد الحميري عن أبيه عن البرقي عن أبيه رفعه قال دخل حنان بن سدير على أبي عبد الله (ع) و عنده جماعة من أصحابه فقال يا حنان بن سدير تزور أبا عبد الله (ع) في كل شهر مرة قال لا قال ففي كل شهرين قال لا قال ففي كل سنة قال لا قال ما أجفاكم بسيدكم قال يا ابن رسول الله قلة الزاد و بعد المسافة قال أ لا أدلكم على زيارة مقبولة و إن بعد النائي قال فكيف أزوره يا ابن رسول الله قال اغتسل يوم الجمعة أو أي يوم شئت و البس أطهر ثيابك و اصعد إلى أعلى موضع في دارك أو الصحراء فاستقبل القبلة بوجهك بعد ما تبين أن القبر هنالك يقول الله تبارك و تعالى فَأَيْنَما تُوَلُّوا فَثَمَّ وَجْهُ اللَّهِ ثم قل السلام عليك يا مولاي و ابن مولاي و سيدي و ابن سيدي السلام عليك يا مولاي يا قتيل بن القتيل الشهيد بن الشهيد السلام عليك و رحمة الله و بركاته أنا زائرك يا ابن رسول الله بقلبي و لساني و جوارحي و إن لم أزرك بنفسي و المشاهدة فعليك السلام يا وارث آدم صفوة الله و وارث نوح نبي الله و وارث إبراهيم خليل الله و وارث موسى كليم الله و وارث عيسى روح الله و كلمته و وارث محمد حبيب الله و نبيه و رسوله و وارث علي أمير المؤمنين وصي رسول الله و خليفته و وارث الحسن بن علي وصي أمير المؤمنين لعن الله قاتلك و جدد عليهم العذاب في هذه الساعة و في كل ساعة أنا يا سيدي متقرب إلى الله جل و عز و إلى جدك رسول الله و إلى أبيك أمير المؤمنين و إلى أخيك الحسن و إليك يا مولاي فعليك سلام الله و رحمته بزيارتي لك بقلبي و لساني و جميع جوارحي فكن يا سيدي شفيعي لقبول ذلك مني و أنا بالبراءة من أعدائك و اللعنة لهم و عليهم أتقرب إلى الله و إليكم أجمعين فعليك صلوات الله و رضوانه و رحمته ثم تتحول على يسارك قليلا و تحول وجهك إلى قبر علي بن الحسين (ع) و هو عند رجل أبيه و تسلم عليه مثل ذلك ثم ادع الله بما أحببت من أمر دينك و دنياك ثم تصلي أربع ركعات فإن صلاة الزيارة ثمانية أو ستة أو أربعة أو ركعتان و أفضلها ثمان تستقبل القبلة نحو قبر أبي عبد الله (ع) و تقول أنا مودعك يا مولاي و ابن مولاي و سيدي و ابن سيدي و مودعك يا سيدي و ابن سيدي يا علي بن الحسين و مودعكم يا سادتي يا معشر الشهداء فعليكم سلام الله ورحمته و رضوانه

As you can see, the Imam (عليه السلام) has given his companion a ziyarah to say from afar, wherein one is talking to the Imam (عليه السلام) from a very far place because they couldn't visit the Imams (عليه السلام) grave.

So where is the issue again? And how do you explain these ziyaraat as anything but talking?

And finally I said I agree with you, it isn't direct, but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) through His Power can cause them to hear and be informed of these munjaat.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Sumerian