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In the Name of God بسم الله

No Medium between Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)) and His servants

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I want to know how the term Shia evolved from meaning "those who sided with Ali (عليه السلام) at Ghadeer" to those who believe "the AhlulBayt (عليه السلام). owning the entire universe".. that's shiasm in a nutshell :D

and since I'm born into it, What responsibilities exactly do I have as a shia.. Inherited it, can't seem to 'practice' it. Having a hard time believing it as well.. :)

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@sargardan your concerns, as with most people in similar situations,seem to be less with the fundamentals of Shiism and more with modern day trends within Shia communities. 

The reality is that the masses of most religious groups, including ours, don't take the time and effort to learn the fundamentals of religion. 

My recommendation is to filter out the noise from society, and use the time to read some important works by our scholars as well as the Holy Qur'an itself of course. Hopefully this will allow you to reconnect with your faith.

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1 hour ago, sargardan said:

...that has been provided to me in a tight little package throughout all my life ?

Who told you to lie down and be spoon fed knowledge, instead making a sincere effort to seek it?

It's obvious that you suffer from lack of knowledge, and you have no valid excuse for lacking it.

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On 5/20/2021 at 2:44 PM, Abu Nur said:

What I'm trying to say is that one form of intercession is wrong. The following is the wrong one:

O Abu’l-Hasan!
O commander of the Believers!
O `Ali, son of Abu-Talib!
O Allah’s Argument against His creatures!
O our master and chief!
We are turning our faces toward you, seeking your intercession
and your advocacy for us before Allah;
and we are presenting you [as our intermediary] for the settlement of our needs.
O well-esteemed with Allah,
intercede for us before Allah.

This is what Polytheist did with their idols. This is an invoking an Imam beside of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). You can never find any narration from our Imams (عليه السلام) where they have recited in this kind of form.

Polytheists didn't take their idols as Hujjatullah, ulilAmr rather they took their idols as Almighty Gods. That was a false comparison.

Plus Imams (عليه السلام) haven't forbade us from asking them. Our acts are presented before them anyways [Read Al-Kafi] so what's the big deal in calling upon Imams (عليه السلام)?

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3 hours ago, sargardan said:

And How do you define love of Ahlul Bayt? 

I have noted this one as a genuine question, rest of all your responses are useless, nonsense and I don't see in them any weight which could compel anyone to leave the path of truth or leave that which he identified as truth. 

So unless you answer the questions asked by me I will not be entertaining you. 

3 hours ago, sargardan said:

In all of my 25 years of confusion, I have not yet come across even 1 single person the likes of 786:), Mahdavist, Abu Nur etc in my surrounding.

lol, I got you finally man!!! 

Very well, go to the shia-reformist website and learn from them what is shiaism.

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19 hours ago, sargardan said:

but the fact remains, those who start asking questions about the shia beliefs rarely find satisfactory answers.

If I had not seen this forum, I probably would have kept believing I'm being led astray by Satan due to my sins, or the sins of my parents because that's what is preached, they guilt you into submission to their views. 

I beseech Allah for his Rahmat and His Guidance

Assalama alaykum brother, Islam encourages questioning mind.  Muslims should not have blind faith with closed minds.  Questioning and reasoning is very natural, that’s the way one can ascertain and have unflinching faith. 

Many great men experienced what you are going through.  Imam Abu Hamed Al-Ghazālī (may Allah have Mercy on him) went through a lot of mental torment. He went back to the basics and cleared his doubts – Ask people who know – this will clear your doubts – In sha Allah Allah Almighty will help you clear your doubts.

Imam Ghazali     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali

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28 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Polytheists didn't take their idols as Hujjatullah, ulilAmr rather they took their idols as Almighty Gods. That was a false comparison.

Plus Imams (عليه السلام) haven't forbade us from asking them. Our acts are presented before them anyways [Read Al-Kafi] so what's the big deal in calling upon Imams (عليه السلام)?

Look! [Only] exclusive faith is worthy of Allah, and those who take guardians besides Him [claiming,] ‘We only worship them so that they may bring us near to Allah,’ Allah will indeed judge between them concerning that about which they differ. Indeed Allah does not guide someone who is a liar and an ingrate.

Of course their problem is that they worshipped the Idols, thinking that doing so will bring them close to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). But this also tells us that people can fall to this type of worshipping, if they take the Imams (عليه السلام) to the extreme love that will take them outside of Islam.

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7 minutes ago, Debate follower said:

Assalama alaykum brother, Islam encourages questioning mind.  Muslims should not have blind faith with closed minds.  Questioning and reasoning is very natural, that’s the way one can ascertain and have unflinching faith. 

Many great men experienced what you are going through.  Imam Abu Hamed Al-Ghazālī (may Allah have Mercy on him) went through a lot of mental torment. He went back to the basics and cleared his doubts – Ask people who know – this will clear your doubts – In sha Allah Allah Almighty will help you clear your doubts.

Imam Ghazali     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali

The sincerity is very admirable for wanting to come close to God when the whole world and shaytan is trying to destroy you from the path of God and take your imaan away, no matter where you belong.

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11 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

But this also tells us that people can fall to this type of worshipping, if they take the Imams (عليه السلام) to the extreme love that will take them outside of Islam.

Correct. This is called ghuluw and it has been heavily condemned by the Ahlulbayt. 

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31 minutes ago, Cool said:

I have noted this one as a genuine question, rest of all your responses are useless, nonsense and I don't see in them any weight which could compel anyone to leave the path of truth or leave that which he identified as truth. 

So unless you answer the questions asked by me I will not be entertaining you. 

lol, I got you finally man!!! 

Very well, go to the shia-reformist website and learn from them what is shiaism.

Brother I hope you don’t think me I’m one of the shia reformist, because I’m truly not.

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1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

Who told you to lie down and be spoon fed knowledge, instead making a sincere effort to seek it?

It's obvious that you suffer from lack of knowledge, and you have no valid excuse for lacking it.

The situation is that he, like many others, is surrounded by people calling themselves Shia but promoting ideas and practices that have no real basis in our religion. It is a general issue in many communities today. 

I agree with you that he has to take the time and effort to seek knowledge.

However if we close our eyes to the situation and try to sweep it under the rug, we will lose a generation of young, confused people. 

This is why instead of rushing towards defensive reactions we should work to revive our core teachings and practices. 

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5 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:
1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

 

The situation is that he, like many others, is surrounded by people calling themselves Shia but promoting ideas and practices that have no real basis in our religion. It is a general issue in many communities today. 

Mostly in west this happens where people are biggest talkers but rarely they truly worship and take their religion seriously. The surrounding will see the religion as joke and mostly leave the religion all together. 

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2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

@sargardan your concerns, as with most people in similar situations,seem to be less with the fundamentals of Shiism and more with modern day trends within Shia communities. 

The reality is that the masses of most religious groups, including ours, don't take the time and effort to learn the fundamentals of religion. 

My recommendation is to filter out the noise from society, and use the time to read some important works by our scholars as well as the Holy Qur'an itself of course. Hopefully this will allow you to reconnect with your faith.

What to do when you read the Quran and the exegesis in the sidenote tell you it has been altered, that the actual verse was something different. 

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51 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Brother I hope you don’t think me I’m one of the shia reformist, because I’m truly not.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant you steadfastness on the path of truth. Neither you nor @Mahdavist are reformist.

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https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235071948-tawassul/

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235071941-istighatha-and-tawassul/

Other Related topic above. ( Tawassul, Istighatha,)

Below are parts of the Ali ibn Husayn (علي بن الحسين‎), also known as Zayn al-Abidin(عليه السلام) book Al-Sahifat Al-Sajjadiyya. 

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16- O God,
so I seek nearness to Thee through
the elevated rank of Muhammad
and the radiant degree of 'Ali,
and I turn to Thee through them
so that Thou wilt give me refuge
from the evil of [so and so],2
for that will not constrain Thee in Thy wealth,
nor trouble Thee in Thy power,
and Thou art powerful over everything!3

https://www.al-islam.org/sahifa-al-kamilah-al-sajjadiyya-imam-ali-zayn-al-abidin/49-his-supplication-repelling-enemies

&

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86- By the right of him whom Thou hast distinguished among Thy creation
and by him whom Thou hast chosen
for Thyself!
By the right of him whom Thou hast selected
from among Thy creatures
and by him whom Thou hast picked
for Thy task!
By the right of him the obeying of whom Thou hast joined to obeying Thee,
and by him the disobeying of whom Thou hast made like disobeying Thee!
And by the right of him whose friendship Thou hast bound to Thy friendship
and by him whose enmity Thou hast linked
to Thine enmity!
Shield me in this day of mine,
by that through which Thou shieldest
him who prays fervently to Thee while disavowing
and him who seeks refuge in Thy forgiveness
while repenting!

https://www.al-islam.org/sahifa-al-kamilah-al-sajjadiyya-imam-ali-zayn-al-abidin/47-his-supplication-day-arafa

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@Abu Nur@Mahdavist

salam brothers.

What you bros are saying is that dua tawassul is a form of invocation and has no place in shia islam. Did I understand that correctly?
where / from who does dua tawassul come from.

What about dua ahad? at the end one does this:

"Then one should gently strike his right thigh with his palm and say."

Hasten! Hasten! O my Master, O Master of the era.

Would this be a form of invocation?

 http://www.duas.org/ahad.htm

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On 5/20/2021 at 7:44 PM, Abu Nur said:

What I'm trying to say is that one form of intercession is wrong. The following is the wrong one:

O Abu’l-Hasan!
O commander of the Believers!
O `Ali, son of Abu-Talib!
O Allah’s Argument against His creatures!
O our master and chief!
We are turning our faces toward you, seeking your intercession
and your advocacy for us before Allah;
and we are presenting you [as our intermediary] for the settlement of our needs.
O well-esteemed with Allah,
intercede for us before Allah.

This is what Polytheist did with their idols. This is an invoking an Imam beside of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). You can never find any narration from our Imams (عليه السلام) where they have recited in this kind of form.

Nothing is wrong about this, this is asking the Imam (عليه السلام) to intercede to this person before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). There is no difference between this and asking the Prophet (saww) to ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to forgive your sins.

Literally it is a request from a person to a ma'soom to make Du'a for him.

And yes, these examples are available in our hadiths, for example in Ziyarat Al-Jami'ah we read:

I seek your intercession for me with Allah the Almighty and All-majestic, I seek nearness to Him in your names, I provide you as my means for seeking fulfillment of my desires, needs, and wishes, in all of my manners and affairs, I believe in your invisibility, visibility, presence, absence, first, and last of you; and I confide all that to you and submit to all of it with you.

This is a ziyarah that many of our classical scholars, including Shaykh Al-Saduq (rah), considered authentic, meaning they had no issues with its content at all.

And the Verses of the Holy Qur'an regarding the mushrikeen, may Allah curse them, do not apply to this. The pagans would give their idols divine attributes and claim that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) had delegated the running of the affairs of the world to them, which means the pagans would ask them to create and give sustenance. This is Du'a and Salat to other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and this isn't what the above says.

I would say that we should take our Deen from our Imams (عليه السلام), not from our own interpretations.

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4 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Who told you to lie down and be spoon fed knowledge, instead making a sincere effort to seek it?

It's obvious that you suffer from lack of knowledge, and you have no valid excuse for lacking it.

And here in lies the crux of the real issue. For a religion that is the Absolute Truth, the Haq, the One meant for the whole world, a remarkably small number of people can actually understand it,  and even fewer can practice it correctly.

And in order to do that and sift the truth from the lies, one needs proper Hawza education. I need to acquire a degree higher than the turban wearing 'scholars', who spend countless hrs preaching, so what exactly is their purpose? 

No wonder dimwitted persons like myself ended up exclaiming "Hasbuna Kitab Allah" (oh wait, for me even that's been altered) so in order to believe in the Quran, I need to first disassociate myself from the religious identity stamped at my birth and start from scratch.. 

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1 hour ago, slavelight said:

What you bros are saying is that dua tawassul is a form of invocation and has no place in shia islam. Did I understand that correctly?

Wa alaikum as salam brother

No, what I am saying is that dua tawassul cannot be found in any of the early/primary books of hadith and has not been reliably traced back to an Imam. 

In general, what I have been saying is that we have the best of supplications in the Quran and in authentic narrations of the aimmah, so there is no sensible reason to divert from this and innovate our own ways of supplicating as some people nowadays do. 

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5 hours ago, sargardan said:

And in order to do that and sift the truth from the lies, one needs proper Hawza education. I need to acquire a degree higher than the turban wearing 'scholars', who spend countless hrs preaching, so what exactly is their purpose? 

Not really. Read some basic books on religion instead of focusing on what people around you are saying and doing. There are so many available for free online, nobody can really say that knowledge isn't accessible today. 

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4 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Polytheists didn't take their idols as Hujjatullah, ulilAmr rather they took their idols as Almighty Gods. That was a false comparison.

Plus Imams (عليه السلام) haven't forbade us from asking them. Our acts are presented before them anyways [Read Al-Kafi] so what's the big deal in calling upon Imams (عليه السلام)?

False, polytheist actually believed their idols were intercessors for Allah aswell, just as 'lower Gods'

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15 hours ago, sargardan said:

I have seen both extremes within my family, in fact those who went apostate were also considered the most 'religious', doing zanjir-zani, Tatbir ,Qama etc. They did eveything they could possibly do that was 'expected' out of the said Love

Salam as you have mentioned these actions are just radical rituals wich 'the most religious' people likewise Marjas are refraining from practicing these bizzare actions which commoner people do these actions due to their ignorance in name of love but on the other hand you can find real love in actions of martyrs likewise martyrs general Soleymani  & Abu Mahdi Muhandis which listening to Qaseedas is just good for trigring emotions but on the other hand watching Tiktoks are damaging for your sprituality & real emotions because Tiktos are mostly based on confusion of your emotions & ruining sprituality than promotion of emtions to higher levels for finding true love of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) you must focus on learning about them through reliable sources likewise reading books about them which has been written by well known scholars likewise martyr Mutahari & etc which you can find in https://www.al-islam.org 

 

 

 

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Biography of martyr Ebrahim Hadi (highly recommended for changing of your life to a better life) 

"peace be upon Ibrahim" in multiple languages

http://www.ebrahimhadi.ir/index.php/en/peace-be-ibrahim.html

 

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9 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Wa alaikum as salam brother

No, what I am saying is that dua tawassul cannot be found in any of the early/primary books of hadith and has not been reliably traced back to an Imam. 

In general, what I have been saying is that we have the best of supplications in the Quran and in authentic narrations of the aimmah, so there is no sensible reason to divert from this and innovate our own ways of supplicating as some people nowadays do. 

That may be true, although Al-Majlisi (rah) did claim he that he found the text of it in a print from a earlier book, but disregarding even that, the content is hardly controversial when in comparison with the other ziyaraat and duas that we know are from our earlier books.

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The Reference of the Famous Du'a Tawassul

The reference of the famous du'a of Tawassul mentioned in Mafatih al-jinan is Bihar al-anwar. This du'a is narrated from Imams (a) by Muhammad b. Babawayh, without mentioning its references and the chain of its narrations. Al-Majlisi said that, "I found this du'a in an old manuscript written by one of our fellow Shi'a. There it was mentioned that, "this du'a has been narrated from Imams (a) by Muhammad b. Babawayh and for whatever request I recited it, it was fulfilled immediately; and the du'a is …"[5]

بحارالانوار, ج ۹۹, ص ۲۴۷ ).

Source Bihral Anwawar , v 99 , p247

Such a request shows the high position of the friends of God before Him and has no disagreement with Tawhid.

Quote

Content

The content of du'a of Tawassul is supplication and mentioning requests from God, so that upon requesting, God is asked by swearing to the position of the Fourteen Infallibles (a) to fulfill our requests. Such a request shows the high position of the friends of God before Him and has no disagreement with Tawhid. (see:Tawassul and Tawhid)

 

Response according  to Al-milani 

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In Name of his majesty 
Al Salam Alaykum
No one is saying that all supplications have been reached through authentic documents, the debate is whether we need a term for supplication  with a valid document or whether trust is sufficient to issue it? And even if there is no trust in the issuance, is reciting a supplication with the intention of seeking reward or not? Some of the people which are living inside are unaware of these debates, let alone the outsiders.
Among the evidences: The case of Zyarat Ashura  is that these ignorant people talk nonsense, while Sayyid Bahr al-Ulum has quoted that in the version of Mesbah al-Tahajud has been cursing which   Sheikh and his companions have recited the Zyarat of Ashura in the same way and the news reached to Abbasid Khalifa which  the Sheikh has saved himself by Taqyia. See the Rijal  of Sayyid Bahr al-Ulum about the circumstances of Sheikh Tusi.
But what to do with the alleged ignorant?

http://al-milani.com/farsi/qa/printer.php?cat=17&itemid=1815

Quote

According to the document, the famous and mentioned supplication prayer has been included in some hadith sources and supplications that Muhammad ibn Babawiyyah narrated from the infallible Imams without referring to the documents and chain of narrations. (1)
However, from the point of view of the science of hadith, the document of this prayer does not seem to be strong due to not mentioning a specific infallible and a series of narrations. But reciting this prayer is good considering that its content is to appeal to the Ashraf of God's creatures, ie the fourteen infallibles, and it will meet the needs.
But in addition to these expressions similar to and similar to the prayer of Tawassul, in the Shiite and Sunni hadiths, It has been quotedthe from Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) ; Like the hadith of Uthman bin Hanif according to which the Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said:

 

Quote

Uthman bin Hanif says: A sick man came to the service of the Prophet and complained about his blindness. The Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said: Go and perform ablution and pray two rak'ats and after the prayer say " Ya Allah! I ask you and I will use Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) who is the Prophet of Mercy as a mediator to enlighten my eyes. Ya Allah! "Accept his intercession for me."
Uthman ibn Hanif says: We did not get up from the assembly when the man came as if he was not sick at all.

Al-Khara'ij wa l-jara'ih , V1 , p 56

Al-Kharāʾij wa l-jarāʾiḥ (Arabic: الخَرائج و الجَرائح) is one of the lengthiest and the most comprehensive books concerning the miracles of the Prophet (s) and Imams (a), written by Sa'id b. Hibat Allah al-Rawandi (d. 573/1177) known as Qutb al-Din al-Rawandi.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Khara'ij_wa_l-jara'ih_(book)

https://www.pasokhgoo.ir/node/56388

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Different Types of Du'a of Tawassul

A number of du'as are called "al-Tawassul" as follow:

  1. The famous du'a of Tawassul begins with the expression, "...اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّی أَسْأَلُک وَ أَتَوَجَّهُ إِلَیک بِنَبِیک نَبِی الرَّحْمَةِ" (Allahumm-a inni as'aluk-a wa atawajjah-u ilayk-a bi nabiyyik-a Nabi al-Rahma…) (O God, surly I ask you and I turn toward you by Your Messenger, the Messenger of the mercy).[1]
  2. In Balad al-aminal-Kaf'ami[2] has narrated a comprehensive supplication called Du'a al-Faraj and beside it, he has also mentioned al-Tawassul supplication.
  3. In al-Kalim al-tayyibSayyid 'Ali Khan has narrated a du'a of Tawassul from Shaykh Sahrashti's Qabas al-misbah.[3]
  4. Another supplication with the name of du'a al-Tawassul has been mentioned in Balad al-amin. Al-Kaf'ami mentioned this du'a without reference, as a du'a narrated from Imams (a). In this supplication, towards the final parts, the reciter asks God to fulfill his requests by swearing by the position of the Fourteen Infallibles (a).[4]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Tawassul_Supplication

https://www.porseman.com/article/سند-دعاي-ندبه-و-دعاي-توسل/31311

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13 hours ago, sargardan said:

Are you suggesting there's something wrong with their version and you can offer a better alternative?

There is no alternative to truth. 

My version is that:

 العلي مع الحق والحق مع علي، اللهم ادر الحق حيث م دار

This is what was told by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and I cannot deviate from what I have identified as Sirat, Sabil, Urwatul Wuthqa. 

So whether anyone doing tatbir, zanjirzani, dancing, laughing, anything doing, doesn't effect at any level the truth which has been unfolded to me. 

I can only responsible for myself and I can only know what exactly is in my heart. So I don't judge people specifically for things which purely belongs to heart. I cannot know the secret of hearts. 

A person doing excessive sujood, acts of worship yet ended up his life in the hate of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) would be destroyed. Anyone who failed to know Imam of his time and died in that state died the death of jahiliyyah. 

This is what I have seen in the sunni & shi'i books. So just stop looking at what your brother inlaw is doing, how hardly he hit the sword on his head or how fiercely he inflict cuts on his back through zanjeer. Just focus on yourself, how much you have absorbed the divine message, how much you have turned yourself or in fact dyed yourself in the color of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His choosen ones. 

I wish I could define you what "love" is!!! But I am lacking words for it. What I can only tell is that what effects love could produce on one's heart. And you can realize those effects if you love someone like your mother, father, wife, kids. Any problem to your loved ones make you worried. Any loss of loved ones makes you cry, any success of loved ones make you happy etc. The intensity of love increases as your heart gets closer to the one you love. And after going through ever stage, you would sacrifice everything and anything value-able for being with the one you love.

Empty-handedness is the last stage where you have nothing with you but love, which is a thing that one could hardly define. 

Mir Anis said best about the feeling of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام):

ہاتھ خالی تیرے دربار میں آتا ہے حسین

کوئی ہدیہ تیرے لائق نہیں پاتا ہے حسین

This could be the state of a lover who, after sacrificing everything for his love, still feels as he have done nothing. And none of his sacrifices are worthy of presenting before his love.

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9 hours ago, Labbayka said:

False, polytheist actually believed their idols were intercessors for Allah aswell, just as 'lower Gods'

There is no doubt that polytheists of the time of the Prophet (s) considered the rights to ask their idols and gods for Shafa'a, but this verse implies that they worshiped idols and also considered the rights of Shafa'a for them and thus believing in their Shafa'a together with worshiping them led to their criticism.

Polytheists considered unconditional rights of Shafa'a for their idols which God never had given them such position. Also, they believed in their divinity and worshiped them; while if one believes in someone's rights of Shafa'a God has given him and that using such rights is by the permission of God, then there would be no problem. On the other hand, no Muslim considers the position of divinity for intercessors to worship them so that his act resembles the acts of the polytheists.

Although the Qur'an denies the intercession of the idols, it has acknowledged the intercession of some figures such as the Prophet (s) with some conditions.

 no one other than God has such a right and those verses which support Shafa'a imply that Shafa'a belongs to God and others can do Shafa'a only by His permission.

“    Intercession is of no avail with Him except for those whom He permits.    ”
— Quran, 34:23

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Although the Qur'an denies the intercession of the idols, it has acknowledged the intercession of some figures such as the Prophet (s) with some conditions. Therefore, Muslims have no disagreement on the principle of Shafa'a in general and disagree only on its rulings and position. For example, in the verse "And keep vigil for a part of the night, as a supererogatory [devotion] for you. It may be that your Lord will raise you to a praiseworthy station." (Qur'an 17:79) Shi'a and Sunni exegetes agree that by "a praiseworthy station", the position of Shafa'a is meant which God has promised to His Messenger (s).[4]

The verses mentioned in the Qur'an about Shafa'a can be categorized in some groups,

  • Some of them totally reject Shafa'a in the hereafter,[5]
  • Some regard Shafa'a exclusive to God,[6]
  • Some regard Shafa'a conditioned to the permission and order of God,[7]
  • Some reject Shafa'a about some people.

Studying all the verses of Shafa'a, it can be inferred that the Qur'an approves of a kind of Shafa'a and disapproves and rejects other kinds of Shafa'a. The verses which reject Shafa'a imply that no one other than God has such a right and those verses which support Shafa'a imply that Shafa'a belongs to God and others can do Shafa'a only by His permission.

Intercession is of no avail with Him except for those whom He permits.
— Quran, 34:23

 

Quote

Wahhabis and Shafa'a

All Sunnis including Wahhabis believe in Shafa'a. The leader of Wahhabis, Ibn Taymiyya said, "Hadiths about Shafa'a are many and frequently narrated in Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Bukhari and many of them also exist in Sunan and Masanid."[26]

 

The disagreement between Wahhabis and other Muslims is over requesting Shafa'a from prophets (a) and friends of God during Barzakh (the Middle World), about which, since Wahhabis do not believe in the life in Barzakh, they regard this kind of Shafa'a impermissible and even consider it an example of polytheism. 'Abd Allah b. Muhammad b. Abd al-Wahhab said,

"We approve of Shafa'a for our prophet (s) on the Day of Judgment according to hadiths. We also approve of it for other prophets (a), angels, friends of God and children due to the reports we have received, but we seek Shafa'a from its owner (God)… Shafa'a needs to be requested from God not intercessors, e.g. one should not say, "O the Messenger of God! O the friend of God! I ask you Shafa'a or its means. … or similar expressions, which no one other than God has the power upon them. Request for Shafa'a from the intercessors while they are in Barzakh is a kind of polytheism."[29]

 

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Criticisms of Wahhabis

The most important criticisms mentioned by Wahhabis are:

Polytheism

 

Answer

The above criticism comes from Wahhabis' misunderstanding of the meaning of unity of God and polytheism. The true understanding of polytheism and unity of God implies that invoking anyone other than God does not mean polytheism in itself and it is not even forbidden since polytheism refers to cases in which one believes an independent divinity and lordship other than God and Shi'a never believe as such neither about their Imams (a) nor any other beings but for Allah alone.

Undoubtedly, invoking Muslims and requesting them for help is a permissible action and they need to help such an invoker as much as they can. On the other hand, when an action is permissible for a person, asking him to do that is permissible as well. When Shafa'a would be permissible for the Prophet (s) and other intercessors, asking Shafa'a from them would also be permissible.

Excluding Shafa'a to God

 

Answer

Shafa'a from this aspect that it is a kind of making influence in the creation, is among the manifestations of God's Lordship and thus it belongs to Him; however, this does not contradict with believing in the rights of Shafa'a for prophets (a) and the righteous; because, their Shafa'a is not independent but depending on the permission of God while it is the same in other issues. In the Qur'an God says,

“    …that power, altogether, belongs to Allah…    ”
— 2:165, Qur'an

Resembling Polytheists

 

Answer

There is no doubt that polytheists of the time of the Prophet (s) considered the rights to ask their idols and gods for Shafa'a, but this verse implies that they worshiped idols and also considered the rights of Shafa'a for them and thus believing in their Shafa'a together with worshiping them led to their criticism.

Polytheists considered unconditional rights of Shafa'a for their idols which God never had given them such position. Also, they believed in their divinity and worshiped them; while if one believes in someone's rights of Shafa'a God has given him and that using such rights is by the permission of God, then there would be no problem. On the other hand, no Muslim considers the position of divinity for intercessors to worship them so that his act resembles the acts of the polytheists.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Shafa'a

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11 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Not really. Read some basic books on religion instead of focusing on what people around you are saying and doing. There are so many available for free online, nobody can really say that knowledge isn't accessible today. 

Exactly !

I should learn Arabic, find the original 1000+yr old books of Al-Kafi in Arabic, and then go formulate my actual beliefs from there, because even the translations and texts taken from it can't be trust 

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22 hours ago, Cool said:

What do you think, are they misguiding people? Are we so weak that we just change our practices by fearing with such threats? 

Even the Hindu's are allowed to carryout their religious practices in Pakistan, why these Mullahs are against shias only? These Orangzeb Farooqi type people are the true Nawasibs. We should not need to retreat an inch with the threats of these 

 

Sure, its okay to fight for the freedom of expression, its your basic right. Even Aurat March is the basic right of the women of Pakistan

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18 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Look! [Only] exclusive faith is worthy of Allah, and those who take guardians besides Him [claiming,] ‘We only worship them so that they may bring us near to Allah,’ Allah will indeed judge between them concerning that about which they differ

See what is being said before bold part.

Those who take guardians besides Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). it includes only self-made guardians not the ones made Guardian by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). you may refer to Ayah Al-wilayah. If guardians in verse refer to our imams then it contradicts ayah Al-Wilayah. Therefore it can be understood that this verse doesn't refer to Hujjatullah/ulilamr Imams (عليه السلام).

 

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3 hours ago, sargardan said:

Exactly !

I should learn Arabic, find the original 1000+yr old books of Al-Kafi in Arabic, and then go formulate my actual beliefs from there, because even the translations and texts taken from it can't be trust 

If you are willing to then sure. In the meantime, Sheikh al Saduq has good works on Shi'a Aqa'id and Sheikh al Mufid on history. 

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17 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

If the exegesis is not backed by the Qur'an or by authentic narrations then discard it. 

Nice but Taqlid also isn't backed up by Authentic traditions. Its in Tafseer Al-Askari (عليه السلام) which is weak. Khoei called it weak. Sistani called both hadiths ( hadith of taqlid / refer to narrators of our traditions ) weak

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