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In the Name of God بسم الله

Fasting until?...

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:salam:

I came across a article attempting to justify why Shias fast until it’s dark and not sunset like Sunnis do (see below) but if layl means night and night when is when isha happens doesn’t this mean that this argument is flawed otherwise it would mean we’d have to fast up until isha when we don’t? 

 

“The Quran clearly states that fasting is to be initiated before sunrise (at dawn) and is to be completed until 'night' (Arabic: layl). 

 

002:187 (Part)

"...and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appears to you distinct from its black thread. Then complete the fast till the night (Arabic: layl)..." “

 

 

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Salam,

Who said shia fast until it is dark or at isha'?

There are maraja' who say it is an obligatory precaution to wait until the redness of the eastern sky disappears after sunset (approx. 10-20min after sunset). There are also maraja' who permit breaking the fast at sunset and say that it is not an obligatory precaution to wait.

Technically, every Shia should be able to break the fast at sunset and not have to wait (if I am not mistaken); however, it is better to wait. It is my understanding that if a shia follows a marja' who says that it is an obligatory precaution to wait, he can refer to the next most learned marja' and if he also says it is an obligatory precaution to wait, the shia can refer to the next most learned marja' and so on until he reaches a marja' who permits breaking the fast at sunset.

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55 minutes ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

Salam,

Who said shia fast until it is dark or at isha'?

There are maraja' who say it is an obligatory precaution to wait until the redness of the eastern sky disappears after sunset (approx. 10-20min after sunset). There are also maraja' who permit breaking the fast at sunset and say that it is not an obligatory precaution to wait.

Technically, every Shia should be able to break the fast at sunset and not have to wait (if I am not mistaken); however, it is better to wait. It is my understanding that if a shia follows a marja' who says that it is an obligatory precaution to wait, he can refer to the next most learned marja' and if he also says it is an obligatory precaution to wait, the shia can refer to the next most learned marja' and so on until he reaches a marja' who permits breaking the fast at sunset.

Which marja' said that can break the fast at sunset? Is dawn is sunrise and layl is sunset?

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Posted (edited)

As in the prominent opinion is is that the redness of the sky needs to disappear before one can break the fast hence why Shias break their fast a little later than Sunnis. But my question is where does this argument come from if layl means night and nighttime would be considered isha time 

Edited by seekingthebeloved
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26 minutes ago, layman said:

Which marja' said that can break the fast at sunset? Is dawn is sunrise and layl is sunset?

Quote

 

Sayyid Sadiq Rouhani: On the Arabic website it says

وقت المغرب والعشاء للمختار ما بين غروب الشمس (أو المغرب) و نصف الليل

Source: http://www.rohani.ir/ar/idetail/2802/هل--ن--وقت-صلاة-المغرب-و-العشا--ممتد-ال---ذان-الفج

On the Farsi website, it says

گاهاً حدود 15دقیقه تا اذان مغرب، زمان هست، که به غروب آفتاب مشهور است. حال زمان افطار، غروب آفتاب است یا اذان مغرب؟

جواب: باسمه جلت اسمائه - به فتوای من زمان افطار غروب آفتاب است ولی مقتضای احتیاط این است که تا مغرب صبر کنید

Basically implying it is Ihtiyat Mustahabb to wait (not necessary). Source: http://www.rohani.ir/fa/idetail/977/زمان-افطار--غروب-آفتاب-است-یا-اذان-مغرب-

Sayyid al-Hakeem:  The time of Maghrib prayer is the setting of the sun. If there is doubt about it, then one should wait till he is certain that the sun has set. The disappearance of the redness in the eastern sky is an indication that the sun has indeed set.

The prime time of the Maghrib prayer is from the sunset till the disappearance of the redness from the western horizon.

Source: http://www.alhakeem.com/en/questions/952

Shaykh Makarem Shirazi: Issue No.675 - Maghrib is the time when the sun disappears in the horizon. *As a measure of precaution, one should wait till the redness that appears in the east after sunset passes over head towards west. The time for Maghrib and Isha prayers arrives at sunset and continues till midnight.

Source: https://makarem.ir/main.aspx?reader=1&lid=1&mid=36328&catid=36365&pid=61939

*Precaution after a Fatwa means Ihtiyat Mustahabb.

Sayyid Taqi Modaressi: On his Arabic website it says the following

وقت صلاة المغرب هو عند سقوط قرص الشمس وغروبها، والذي يُعرَف عادة بارتفاع الحمرة المشرقية وانفصالها عن أفق الأرض

Source: http://almodarresi.com/estifta/question/view/6184

On his Farsi website it sayss:

زمان افطار، فرارسیدن مغرب شرعی است. بنابراین اگر اذان آنان مطابق با مغرب شرعی باشد، جایز است

Source: http://almodarresi.com/fa/estefta/question/view/47

Shaykh Saanei:

مغرب همان غروب عرفى است كه خورشيد غروب مى كند و در تحقّق مغرب، ذهاب حُمره مشرقيّه بر طرف شدن سرخى طرف مشرق، لازم نيست

Source: http://saanei.org/index.php?view=01,02,09,2128,0

 

 

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1 hour ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

Salam,

Who said shia fast until it is dark or at isha'?

There are maraja' who say it is an obligatory precaution to wait until the redness of the eastern sky disappears after sunset (approx. 10-20min after sunset). There are also maraja' who permit breaking the fast at sunset and say that it is not an obligatory precaution to wait.

Technically, every Shia should be able to break the fast at sunset and not have to wait (if I am not mistaken); however, it is better to wait. It is my understanding that if a shia follows a marja' who says that it is an obligatory precaution to wait, he can refer to the next most learned marja' and if he also says it is an obligatory precaution to wait, the shia can refer to the next most learned marja' and so on until he reaches a marja' who permits breaking the fast at sunset.

As in the prominent opinion is is that the redness of the sky needs to disappear before one can break the fast hence why Shias break their fast a little later than Sunnis. But my question is where does this argument come from if layl means night and nighttime would be considered isha time 

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Posted (edited)

Both indications are in our resources for sunset and the redness issue. So some scholars view it as one can break fast at sunset like sayyid hakeem. Other scholars say one must wait. So they are trying to reconcile  these indications. Sayyid sistani has an obligatory precaution so one can refer to another expert if they want. But regardless it is better to wait. 

Edited by Rohani
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5 minutes ago, Rohani said:

Both indications are in our resources for sunset and the redness issue. So some scholars view it as one can break fast at sunset like sayyid hakeem. Other scholars say one must wait. So they are trying to reconcile  these indications. Sayyid sistani has an obligatory precaution so one can refer to another expert if they want. But regardless it is better to wait. 

So you can break your fast at sunset BUT it is recommended to wait? 

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Posted (edited)

^ One of the past maraja had viewed it this way that it is sunset but better to wait.  

However since one does taqleed they should refer to their trusted expert marja to be safe on their responsability since they trust his research. In sayyid sistani case he gives room to leave to another in this fatwa. 

 

It also.is not very long maybe 15 minutes more or less after sunset. Maybe even 10 minutes (But depending on local area )

Edited by Rohani
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Rohani said:

^ One of the past maraja had viewed it this way that it is sunset but better to wait.  

However since one does taqleed they should refer to their trusted expert marja to be safe on their responsability since they trust his research. In sayyid sistani case he gives room to leave to another in this fatwa. 

 

It also.is not very long maybe 15 minutes more or less after sunset. Maybe even 10 minutes (But depending on local area )

Correction no need to leave precaution in delaying Salah until disappearance of redness in eastern horizon.  According to that marja view not wajib to wait. Anyhow precaution is fine but under that view it's not wajib to wait. 

Edited by Rohani
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4 hours ago, Rohani said:

Correction no need to leave precaution in delaying Salah until disappearance of redness in eastern horizon.  According to that marja view not wajib to wait. Anyhow precaution is fine but under that view it's not wajib to wait. 

According to which marja is it not wajib to wait?

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20 hours ago, seekingthebeloved said:

As in the prominent opinion is is that the redness of the sky needs to disappear before one can break the fast hence why Shias break their fast a little later than Sunnis.

10 hours ago, seekingthebeloved said:

According to which marja is it not wajib to wait?

I see you have not read my previous posts at all.

 

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Amongst living maraja and there are more that say maghrib can be prayed after the diapearenace of the sun disk 

Ayatollah Makarem shirazi

Ayatollah Rouhani 

Ayatollah Sayyid saeed hakeem 

Again no problem in waiting and one should see if their scholar recommends waiting. 

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Posted (edited)

If it's only a recomended precaution or a precaution it is not wajib to wait according to him but is better to wait.

If he says it's time is at disaprance of redness only then it is according to him wajib

If he says wajib ihtiyat it means you must wait or you can refer to another marja in this fatwa. 

 

Edited by Rohani
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1 hour ago, Rohani said:

If it's only a recomended precaution or a precaution it is not wajib to wait according to him but is better to wait.

If he says it's time is at disaprance of redness only then it is according to him wajib

If he says wajib ihtiyat it means you must wait or you can refer to another marja in this fatwa. 

 

Thank you for explaining. Do you happen to know Khamenais stance on this? 

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Fasting Definition
1. Fasting in Islam is to refrain from eating, drinking, etc. — which will be discussed later in details — the whole day (from fajr until maghrib) in order to obey the Allah's order.

https://www.leader.ir/en/book/27/Rules-of-Fasting

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:
Fasting Definition
1. Fasting in Islam is to refrain from eating, drinking, etc. — which will be discussed later in details — the whole day (from fajr until maghrib) in order to obey the Allah's order.

https://www.leader.ir/en/book/27/Rules-of-Fasting

Thank you but this doesn’t indicate whether it is deemed a precuastion, wajib or wajib ihtiyat.

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17 hours ago, seekingthebeloved said:

hank you but this doesn’t indicate whether it is deemed a precuastion, wajib or wajib ihtiyat.

On 5/17/2021 at 6:32 PM, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

Technically, every Shia should be able to break the fast at sunset and not have to wait (if I am not mistaken); however, it is better to wait. It is my understanding that if a shia follows a marja' who says that it is an obligatory precaution to wait, he can refer to the next most learned marja' and if he also says it is an obligatory precaution to wait, the shia can refer to the next most learned marja' and so on until he reaches a marja' who permits breaking the fast at sunset.

Never mind what I said here. I just found out that according to Imam Khamenei and Imam Khomeini waiting until the redness of the eastern sky disappears is necessary (wajib).

 

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