Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Omnipotence Paradox

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

Assalamualaikum.

I often hear atheists ask us “can God create a stone that he cannot lift?” I have researched and found some answers but for some reason I want more. Can someone please find an answer from our Imams (PBUT) inshallah.

Wassalam.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Zane Ibrahim said:

Assalamualaikum.

I often hear atheists ask us “can God create a stone that he cannot lift?” I have researched and found some answers but for some reason I want more. Can someone please find an answer from our Imams (PBUT) inshallah.

Wassalam.

Some questions are stupid questions and their cunning is in reductionism of God experience to human experience, your putting God to human level and trying to nulify Him by human mechanism 

God isn’t us He created us  we don’t know much about how He operates what He can do etc His infinity and how it works etc , so how can you ask questions about a being/thing when you don’t have the slightest clue how He operates How He operates 

we try to understand God by our own mechanisms functioning experience and then try to fit Him into some concoction of our limited scope experience mechanism to confuse ourselves into not understanding, the reality is we don’t know how He operates to begin with , He created all this from nothing ie universe and it keeps expanding out of nothing from nowhere , we can’t even understand this universe and it’s creation etc and u want to understand God and how He operates, you won’t and such questions are stupid to begin with 

really what your asking with such a question is what limits and rules does He operate under and How do they interact with one another , again we can’t even understand the universe with things like dark energy dark matter etc with our small tiny weak brains and understanding and you want to understand God

the problem with people and questions like this is that’s they believe  their brains and limits of understanding supersede everything that we can understand everything even God as if we are above Him even though anyone will tell u how stupid we are forgetful hard of understanding limited weak in significant hopeless needy 

these people are just way over their heads in what they are, they think they can grasp everything despite that so many science problems in our existence even ones that seem simple can’t be solved cause they’re too much for our small brains and yet they think they can grasp God , how arrogant stubborn and narcissistic, people can’t even remember their PIN number sometimes 

Edited by theEndIsNear
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Psychological Warfare
وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ {4}

[Shakir 112:4] And none is like Him.
[Pickthal 112:4] And there is none comparable unto Him.
[Yusufali 112:4] And there is none like unto Him.

-----

Out of Your Domain. So, don't use the little intellect to do the unthinkable. It is called ignorance.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

agree with above.

an easier question to comprehend sometimes also posed,

can God throw a creature out of His kingdom? Answer is of course not. Does this mean He is limited? No, of course not, on the contrary, it testifies to His unlimited power as there is no existence outside what He brought to existence.

Really these questions are all dumb because they all ultimately ask the same dumb, hidden question under the guise of a seemingly smart question. Atheists can't ask the hidden question outright simply because it is so obviously absurd; can God create something that's in some way superior to Himself? Obviously not and so as you can see given its clear absurdity they turn to more cunning approaches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 5/16/2021 at 4:58 PM, Zane Ibrahim said:

Assalamualaikum.

I often hear atheists ask us “can God create a stone that he cannot lift?” I have researched and found some answers but for some reason I want more. Can someone please find an answer from our Imams (PBUT) inshallah.

Wassalam.

Wa alaikum as salam.

Have you looked at Imam Jafar ((عليه السلام)) answering whether God can fit the universe in an eggshell, without making the universe smaller or the egg bigger? IIRC, he had two different answers for two different people; one for a layman, and one for a rational intellectual.

I think it's similar to the stone paradox. Some people need answers to satisfy their own nature. I was satisfied with the answer that this is in the realm of rational impossibility; no stone is capable of being too heavy to be lifted by God.

He is Omnipotent over everything (hua ala kulle shai in qadeer); this is outside of that realm, something that doesn't exist like, say, my half brother Umar (I don't have a half brother called Umar; no such person has ever existed), or a rational square root of 2 (doesn't exist either).

Hope I made sense.

Edited by Sabrejet
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Basic Members
On 5/16/2021 at 2:58 PM, Zane Ibrahim said:

“can God create a stone that he cannot lift?”

This is a 'gotcha' type question such as being asked, 'Yes or no, do you still beat your wife?'.

The question is based on a false pretense to start with.

I will be releasing a series of short talks on my youtube page explaining such questions in an easy to understand way in the next few weeks. Take a look and subscribe inshallah :-) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Akhwayn said:

This is a 'gotcha' type question such as being asked, 'Yes or no, do you still beat your wife?'.

The question is based on a false pretense to start with.

I will be releasing a series of short talks on my youtube page explaining such questions in an easy to understand way in the next few weeks. Take a look and subscribe inshallah :-) 

Sure! What's your YouTube account name?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
On 5/16/2021 at 2:58 PM, Zane Ibrahim said:

Assalamualaikum.

I often hear atheists ask us “can God create a stone that he cannot lift?” I have researched and found some answers but for some reason I want more. Can someone please find an answer from our Imams (PBUT) inshallah.

Wassalam.

Wa Aleikum Salaam,

You can even ask simpler question related to Mathematics. Can we make a four side for triangle? The definition of Triangle is that it only have three sides.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/19/2021 at 5:27 PM, Akhwayn said:

This is a 'gotcha' type question such as being asked, 'Yes or no, do you still beat your wife?'.

The question is based on a false pretense to start with.

I will be releasing a series of short talks on my youtube page explaining such questions in an easy to understand way in the next few weeks. Take a look and subscribe inshallah :-) 

Exactly they’re trick question on abstract ideas but what we don’t take into consideration is that we must first know all of the attributes and boundaries limitations of what we want to question even if it’s abstract , and the problem we don’t have that’s info, we don’t understand how God works and what He is so it’s about hard to be asking such questions when I don’t know it’s properties and functionality so it makes no sense to just attribute human characteristics and properties to God and human understanding of a rock on earth and then somehow try to mix these two into a question as if the same principles apply to both, God doesn’t even really exist in earth realm boundaries His existance we don’t have a clue about and how it works so how can we try to understand how He interacts with things ? It’s really counterproductive 

when u consider what is lifting anyway it’s not about the object but rather gravity , if no gravity exists then nothing is heavy anyway and even we could move a huge mass object if there was no gravity , so these questions are just gotcha questions without really having any meaning 

Edited by theEndIsNear
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
On 5/19/2021 at 9:27 AM, Akhwayn said:

The question is based on a false pretense to start with.

Agreed, the question itself is flawed since it is based on an unfeasible scenario. It is like asking what would be required to exist in a vacuum. By definition the vacuum is no longer one once it is occupied.

By definition Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not limited to a form, shape or size. Therefore the very idea of a larger rock is flawed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • Advanced Member

All very good answers. Based around a logical fallacy.

I'll answer from.a different angle.

1) Just say no he can't.

Then they will proceed to say oh so he is not all powerful.

You reply correct

he does not have the power to limit his power because he is all powerful

2) say yes he can

Then they will say oh so he is no longer all powerful

You say correct

 but it's no longer Allah if it's limited so it's a creation and my lord is the one who created the one who can't lift the rock.

Basically you don't believe this but just entertain the fallacy by using your own fallacies.

Then after 1 or 2 or both scenario ask  so what's your point ?

Basically they have no point as you can still discuss the creator of the universe who has revealed himself through revelation.

Edited by Ali bin Hussein
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...