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In the Name of God بسم الله

Imam Ali angered Bibi Fatima

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Salam this narration  is one of Umayyad propaganda against Imam Ali (عليه السلام) which main narrator & source of narration  is cursed Marwan (la) who was the wreteched  enemy of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in response to a man why prophet Muhammad (pbu)  called him AbuTurab which Umayyads & now wahabists & Salafis have used for humilation of  Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but in judgment  day they will wish they were Turab (dust)

 

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9 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam this narration  is one of Umayyad propaganda against Imam Ali (عليه السلام) which main narrator & source of narration  is cursed Marwan (la) who was the wreteched  enemy of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in response to a man why prophet Muhammad (pbu)  called him AbuTurab which Umayyads & now wahabists & Salafis have used for humilation of  Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but in judgment  day they will wish they were Turab (dust)

 

So it is perfectly possible for the Prophet to have quarrels with his wives but it is impossible for Imam Ali to have quarrels with his wives? Got it.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, 786:) said:

So it is perfectly possible for the Prophet to have quarrels with his wives but it is impossible for Imam Ali to have quarrels with his wives? Got it.

My view is that all Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) including the prophet himself are covered under the scope of verse of purification and all Rijs are kept away from them so the narrations of the Umayyad and alike can be straight away rejected in this regard. That's I have. 

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
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28 minutes ago, 786:) said:

So it is perfectly possible for the Prophet to have quarrels with his wives but it is impossible for Imam Ali to have quarrels with his wives? Got it.

Reviving al-Islam had an in depth analysis of the narrations in question and they didn't stand up to scrutiny. Unfortunately it was a downloadable article and the link is broken.

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20 hours ago, Shabahat kazmi said:

Salam i have heard sunni scholars narrating that Imam Ali wanted to marry Abu Jahl’s daughter and Bibi Fatima got angry and left the House is this true?

:) Either the author of that narration wanted to portray Syeda Fatima s.a as common women or either he wanted to portray as Imam Ali (عليه السلام) unaware of the status of Syeda Fatima s.a 

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1 hour ago, 786:) said:

So it is perfectly possible for the Prophet to have quarrels with his wives but it is impossible for Imam Ali to have quarrels with his wives? Got it.

It's not the way we should look at the matter. 

Rather did Nabi (sawas) anger Khadija in Sunni ahadith ? 

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Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْوَلِيدِ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ، عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ دِينَارٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي مُلَيْكَةَ، عَنِ الْمِسْوَرِ بْنِ مَخْرَمَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ فَاطِمَةُ بَضْعَةٌ مِنِّي، فَمَنْ أَغْضَبَهَا أَغْضَبَنِي ‏"‏‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3714

In-book reference : Book 62, Hadith 63

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3714

-----

Miswar b. Makhramah reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:

Fatima is a part of me. He in fact tortures me who tortures her.

حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو مَعْمَرٍ، إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ الْهُذَلِيُّ حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ عَمْرٍو، عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي مُلَيْكَةَ، عَنِ الْمِسْوَرِ بْنِ مَخْرَمَةَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ إِنَّمَا فَاطِمَةُ بَضْعَةٌ مِنِّي يُؤْذِينِي مَا آذَاهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2449b

In-book reference : Book 44, Hadith 138

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 31, Hadith 6000

https://sunnah.com/muslim:2449b

 

These structured and benign or simple inquires are Like the Word /Mawla/Master in the declaration of Ghadir Khumm. or the The hadith of the two weighty things the confusion in meaning or the second weighty things is sunnah or Ahlul Bayth(عليه السلام) . 

An effort to misdirect/deflect is natural to the other side. It is reported what happened after Fadaq, and what is said in the Sermon's . 

https://www.al-islam.org/fatimah-al-masumah-role-model-men-and-women-ayatullah-sayyid-muhammad-husayn-fadlullah/chapter-3#part-6-setting-out-proof-her-right-fadak

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2 hours ago, 786:) said:

So it is perfectly possible for the Prophet to have quarrels with his wives but it is impossible for Imam Ali to have quarrels with his wives? Got it.

The prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) didn't quarrel with his wives. Unfortunately some of them disrespected him ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and were reprimanded for it in the Qur'an. 

In the case of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Sayyidah Fatima (sa), none disrespected the other.

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وَإِذْ أَسَرَّ النَّبِيُّ إِلَىٰ بَعْضِ أَزْوَاجِهِ حَدِيثًا فَلَمَّا نَبَّأَتْ بِهِ وَأَظْهَرَهُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ عَرَّفَ بَعْضَهُ وَأَعْرَضَ عَنْ بَعْضٍ ۖ فَلَمَّا نَبَّأَهَا بِهِ قَالَتْ مَنْ أَنْبَأَكَ هَٰذَا ۖ قَالَ نَبَّأَنِيَ الْعَلِيمُ الْخَبِيرُ {3}

[Pickthal 66:3] When the Prophet confided a fact unto one of his wives and when she afterward divulged it and Allah apprised him thereof, he made known (to her) part thereof and passed over part. And when he told it her she said: Who hath told thee? He said: The Knower, the Aware hath told me.

-----

Not a matter of Only Disrespect. Breach of Trust, and more importantly - Doubt in prophethood. (Another observation, Not every Communication is in the Qur'an-Not sufficient). There is a purpose that Allah(عزّ وجلّ) ensured non get misguided by propaganda to sanctify some people due to them in Power to raise the status of some for the public.

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2 hours ago, 786:) said:

So it is perfectly possible for the Prophet to have quarrels with his wives but it is impossible for Imam Ali to have quarrels with his wives? Got it.

I guess anything is possible in Sunni literature, Forgetting, Mistakes, Quarrelling, Being Possessed, Afraid, etc  he was just an ordinary person got it.

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We should discuss that fact Imam Ali ibn abi Talib (عليه السلام) would never have quarreled with Sayiddina Fatima al Zahra (SA) about anything or given her the slightest cause to be upset.

Why is there so much jealousy and envy regarding their marriage and high quality of love? 

Was it the purity of their love?

 

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I’m not understanding something. Why is it an insult to suppose that a husband and wife would quarrel? It’s natural. Why is it out of the realm of possibility?

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I’m not understanding something. Why is it an insult to suppose that a husband and wife would quarrel? It’s natural. Why is it out of the realm of possibility?

Brother do you even know the meaning of verse of purification, before you can make any such supposition for the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his ahl albayat (عليه السلام)?

Edited by Muslim2010
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Muslim2010 said:

Brother do you even know the meaning of verse of purification, before you can make any such supposition for the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his ahl albayat (عليه السلام)?

I don’t read that verse the way you do. I believe that verse is directed towards the prophets wives as are the surrounding ayaat. Nevertheless, let’s suppose it’s talking about ahl Kisa. How are marriage quarrels a sin or any sort of demerit on an individual? Lol

You don’t think the Prophet had a quarrel with Aisha when she was accused of adultery? Or do you just assume it was all flowers and sunshine in the prophets house when that happened? Maybe this quarrel is easier for you to digest since it involves an individual you despise? Allah knows best. However I do not consider a marriage quarrel to be any deficiency on an individual. Do you think Imam Ali had to discipline Hasnain when they were kids growing up? Or do you think even this natural part of life was cancelled out by 33:33?

Whats next, those of Ahl Kisa do not   have to use the bathroom because of 33:33?—although I have heard such sentiments from the extreme malang crowds. But you see how silly this gets.

Edited by 786:)
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 786:) said:

I don’t read that verse the way you do. I believe that verse is directed towards the prophets wives as are the surrounding ayaat. Nevertheless, let’s suppose it’s talking about ahl Kisa. How are marriage quarrels a sin or any sort of demerit on an individual? Lol

You don’t think the Prophet had a quarrel with Aisha when she was accused of adultery? Or do you just assume it was all flowers and sunshine in the prophets house when that happened? Maybe this quarrel is easier for you to digest since it involves an individual you despise? Allah knows best. However I do not consider a marriage quarrel to be any deficiency on an individual. Do you think Imam Ali had to discipline Hasnain when they were kids growing up? Or do you think even this natural part of life was cancelled out by 33:33?

Whats next, those of Ahl Kisa do not   have to use the bathroom because of 33:33?—although I have heard such sentiments from the extreme malang crowds. But you see how silly this gets.

Thanks for your reply. I interpret that there are various hadiths  narrated by the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) thus confirming that ahl albayt are only those who were covered under the kissa /cloak by the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and announced at the time of revelation of verse of purification.  These Ahl alabayt include Fatima, Ali, and their two sons Hassan and Hussain (عليه السلام) who were present at the time of revelation of verse. 

As far as marriage quarrels of wives with the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are concerned there are verses of quran that provide the evidence of mistakes made by some of the wives of the prophet s.a. like in sura tahreem and there are instructions for wives to remain within the houses and these were not complied. These are sufficient to confirm  the mistakes / quarrels made by wives to the prophet s,.a.w and not vice versa for him and for Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام)

Also there  is no verse of quran in contrary to the verse of purification that states only that rijs are kept away from these Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام) thus there is no provision of such mistakes or quarrels in the verses of quran that may be associated to  the prophet as well as Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام). So there is no provision for rijs mistakes or quarrels that can be associated with them except that is considered an insult to the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and ahl alabayt (عليه السلام).

Going beyond sensible limits i consider your this mindset (e.g bathroom) does not require an answer.

Similarly i also reject the words of any person in the history  of Islam and alike that try to attack the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) by considering him liable of any disturbed mind, mistakes or quarreling etc  for a while. since the quran mentions: 

By the grace of your Lord you are not mad. (68;2)

And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality. (68:4)

The above two verse are sufficient to reject all such claims of mistakes or quarreling on the part of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and similarly in the light of the purification for Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) as they are covered under the scope of verse of purification.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
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12 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

Thanks for your reply. I interpret that there are various hadiths  narrated by the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) thus confirming that ahl albayt are only those who were covered under the kissa /cloak by the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and announced at the time of revelation of verse of purification.  These Ahl alabayt include Fatima, Ali, and their two sons Hassan and Hussain (عليه السلام) who were present at the time of revelation of verse. 

As far as marriage quarrels of wives with the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are concerned there are verses of quran that provide the evidence of mistakes made by some of the wives of the prophet s.a. like in sura tahreem and there are instructions for wives to remain within the houses and these were not complied. These are sufficient to confirm  the mistakes / quarrels made by wives to the prophet s,.a.w and not vice versa for him and for Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام)

Also there  is no verse of quran in contrary to the verse of purification that states only that rijs are kept away from these Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام) thus there is no provision of such mistakes or quarrels in the verses of quran that may be associated to  the prophet as well as Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام). So there is no provision for rijs mistakes or quarrels that can be associated with them except that is considered an insult to the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and ahl alabayt (عليه السلام).

Going beyond sensible limits i consider your this mindset (e.g bathroom) does not require an answer.

Similarly i also reject the words of any person in the history  of Islam and alike that try to attack the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) by considering him liable of any disturbed mind, mistakes or quarreling etc  for a while. since the quran mentions: 

By the grace of your Lord you are not mad. (68;2)

And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality. (68:4)

The above two verse are sufficient to reject all such claims of mistakes or quarreling on the part of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and similarly in the light of the purification for Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) as they are covered under the scope of verse of purification.

wasalam

So is it fair to assume that Imam Ali did not have to discipline Hasnain as kids since they are covered in 33:33? Since it would be “disrespectful” to assume they had a natural father son relationship.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, 786:) said:

So is it fair to assume that Imam Ali did not have to discipline Hasnain as kids since they are covered in 33:33? Since it would be “disrespectful” to assume they had a natural father son relationship.

I have provided my answer in detail that does not need repetition.  In the light of above it is obvious that there is no verse that contradicts the verse of purification. Then how do your assume that these Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) did not comply with the order of imam Ali (عليه السلام) and subsequent imam of time in  their life instead of limited matters of son or father?

Edited by Muslim2010
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So if Imams are there to be a role model for our lives—where do we look for exemplary guidance when it comes to marriage and raising children? Since you claim Imams didn’t have to discipline their children or have basic spousal quarrels? What’s the purpose of following someone who doesn’t face the same struggles of life as us?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 786:) said:

So if Imams are there to be a role model for our lives—where do we look for exemplary guidance when it comes to marriage and raising children?

I again mention the reply for your information:

It is obvious that there is no verse that contradicts the verse of purification and the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام) are covered the scope of that purification thus they are perfect role model for us, there is no evidence in the verses of quran for mistakes, quarreling in married life of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and similarly for  Ahl alabaayt (عليه السلام).  So there is no provision for rijs mistakes or quarrels that can be associated with them except that is considered an insult to the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and ahl alabayt (عليه السلام).

1 hour ago, 786:) said:

Since you claim Imams didn’t have to discipline their children or have basic spousal quarrels? What’s the purpose of following someone who doesn’t face the same struggles of life as us?

This is a misquoted statement i have asked you that "Then how do your assume that these Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) did not comply with the order of imam Ali (عليه السلام) and subsequent imam of time in  their life instead of limited matters of son or father? : and i have no answer received yet from your side.

Also i like to see a verse of quran at least a single verse that in contradiction to verse of purification states that "a member of Ahl albayt made a mistake for married life etc" or " a member of Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) will be punished twice for his action of indecency". However these words or alike have been used for the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in the verses of quran thus confirming their mistake and disobedience. This is necessary in order to present at least an evidence of your such claims.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
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Posted (edited)

Imam Ali insisted the Prophet divorce Aisha. The Prophet disagreed with this idea until a wahy decided the fate of Aisha. Are you saying this is not a quarrel/disagreement between Rasoolallah and Imam Ali? I’m sure you’ll have some gymnastic around it. Also, does this mean Imam Ali did not have ilm ul ghayb because his suspicion was overridden by the wahy? Respectfully, I just see too many holes in your narrative. I see the Imams as pious humans who strived towards taqwa, whereas you see them as robots with organs who didn’t have to face the day to day challenges of being a human.

Edited by 786:)
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

I again mention the reply for your information:

It is obvious that there is no verse that contradicts the verse of purification and the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام) are covered the scope of that purification thus they are perfect role model for us, there is no evidence in the verses of quran for mistakes, quarreling in married life of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and similarly for  Ahl alabaayt (عليه السلام).  So there is no provision for rijs mistakes or quarrels that can be associated with them except that is considered an insult to the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and ahl alabayt (عليه السلام).

This is a misquoted statement i have asked you that "Then how do your assume that these Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) did not comply with the order of imam Ali (عليه السلام) and subsequent imam of time in  their life instead of limited matters of son or father? : and i have no answer received yet from your side.

Also i like to see a verse of quran at least a single verse that in contradiction to verse of purification states that "a member of Ahl albayt made a mistake for married life etc" or " a member of Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) will be punished twice for his action of indecency". However these words or alike have been used for the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in the verses of quran thus confirming their mistake and disobedience. This is necessary in order to present at least an evidence of your such claims.

wasalam

I have not received a reply of my questions and words particularly about to see a verse of quran at least a single verse that in contradiction to verse of purification states that "a member of Ahl albayt made a mistake for married life etc" or " a member of Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) will be punished twice for his action of indecency".

Edited by Muslim2010
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2 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Imam Ali insisted the Prophet divorce Aisha. The Prophet disagreed with this idea until a wahy decided the fate of Aisha. Are you saying this is not a quarrel/disagreement between Rasoolallah and Imam Ali?

The reply is simple Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is a follower of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and he agreed to his words.

Do you deny any reality out of the situation described in hadiths?

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1 minute ago, Muslim2010 said:

I have not received a reply of my questions and words.

I already told you I believe the verse to be about wives to begin with. I’m sure you’re of the opinion that the opening of the verse which highlights the impurities is referring to the wives, but the second half of the verse conveniently refers to Ahl Kisa. I disagree with this view. I find it to be about wives as are the ayahs leading up to this verse and after this verse.

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5 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

The reply is simple Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is a follower of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and he agreed to his words.

Do you deny any reality out of the situation described in hadiths?

Since you are a creature of hadith, the literature around this mention that Imam Ali and Prophet were at odds over the fate of Aisha. Both Shia and Sunni literature btw.

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1 minute ago, 786:) said:

I already told you I believe the verse to be about wives to begin with. I’m sure you’re of the opinion that the opening of the verse which highlights the impurities is referring to the wives, but the second half of the verse conveniently refers to Ahl Kisa. I disagree with this view. I find it to be about wives as are the ayahs leading up to this verse and after this verse.

Do you deny the hadiths narrated by the wives of the prophet s.a,w that Ahl alkissa are Ahl alabayt covered under the cloak / kissa at the time of revelation of verse?

8 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

I have not received a reply of my questions and words particularly about to see a verse of quran at least a single verse that in contradiction to verse of purification states that "a member of Ahl albayt made a mistake for married life etc" or " a member of Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) will be punished twice for his action of indecency".

 

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Just now, Muslim2010 said:

Do you deny the hadiths narrated by the wives of the prophet s.a,w that Ahl alkissa are Ahl alabayt covered under the cloak / kissa at the time of revelation of verse?

 

Oh so you take from Aisha when it’s convenient? Got it. But yeah I don’t take hadith with are in conflict with the Quran. First half of the verse which is negative is for the wives and second half which is positive is for Ahl Kisa? I’ll pass with this biased interpretation. Allah isn’t a puzzle maker.

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13 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

The reply is simple Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is a follower of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and he agreed to his words.

Do you deny any reality out of the situation described in hadiths?

So why is he consulting the Prophet on what to do? Is it because they see things differently because they are HUMANS and it is natural to have such quarrels or is it because the code programmed into the robots had an error?

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2 minutes ago, 786:) said:

 First half of the verse which is negative is for the wives and second half which is positive is for Ahl Kisa? I’ll pass with this biased interpretation. Allah isn’t a puzzle maker.

So you are in agreement of the hadith narrated by wives of the prophet s.a. that wives have themselves accepted that Ahl kisaa are Ahl albyat covred in the scope of verse of purification.

First half have feminine grammatical words and last part masculine grammatical words, Do you deny this change in arabic grammar?

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1 minute ago, Muslim2010 said:

First half have feminine grammatical words and last part masculine grammatical words, Do you deny this change in arabic grammar?

Such a naive argument. You don’t think I know this? But collective groups (such as Ahlulbayt) as a noun go into masculine. You can do better.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, 786:) said:

 I’ll pass with this biased interpretation. Allah isn’t a puzzle maker.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has never made a puzzle as i can find such verses for the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) like:

وَإِذْ أَسَرَّ النَّبِيُّ إِلَىٰ بَعْضِ أَزْوَاجِهِ حَدِيثًا فَلَمَّا نَبَّأَتْ بِهِ وَأَظْهَرَهُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ عَرَّفَ بَعْضَهُ وَأَعْرَضَ عَن بَعْضٍ ۖ فَلَمَّا نَبَّأَهَا بِهِ قَالَتْ مَنْ أَنبَأَكَ هَٰذَا ۖ قَالَ نَبَّأَنِيَ الْعَلِيمُ الْخَبِيرُ

And when the prophet secretly communicated a piece of information to one of his wives-- but when she informed (others) of it, and Allah made him to know it, he made known part of it and avoided part; so when he informed her of it, she said: Who informed you of this? He said: The Knowing, the one Aware, informed me. (66:3)

إِن تَتُوبَا إِلَى اللَّهِ فَقَدْ صَغَتْ قُلُوبُكُمَا ۖ وَإِن تَظَاهَرَا عَلَيْهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ مَوْلَاهُ وَجِبْرِيلُ وَصَالِحُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۖ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ ظَهِيرٌ

If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders. (66:4)

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُل لِّأَزْوَاجِكَ إِن كُنتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتَهَا فَتَعَالَيْنَ أُمَتِّعْكُنَّ وَأُسَرِّحْكُنَّ سَرَاحًا جَمِيلًا

And if you desire Allah and His Messenger and the latter abode, then surely Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward. (33:19)

يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ مَن يَأْتِ مِنكُنَّ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ ۚ وَكَانَ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرًا

O wives of the prophet! whoever of you commits an open indecency, the punishment shall be increased to her doubly; and this is easy to Allah. (33:30)

وَمَن يَقْنُتْ مِنكُنَّ لِلَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَتَعْمَلْ صَالِحًا نُّؤْتِهَا أَجْرَهَا مَرَّتَيْنِ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهَا رِزْقًا كَرِيمًا

And whoever of you is obedient to Allah and His Messenger and does good, We will give to her her reward doubly, and We have prepared for her an honorable sustenance. (33:31)

وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَىٰ ۖ وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ

And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger.  (33:33)

Thus not all of the wives t show obedience to the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

Edited by Muslim2010
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  • Veteran Member
17 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I’ll pass with this biased interpretation. Allah isn’t a puzzle maker.

 

41 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

This is a misquoted statement i have asked you that "Then how do your assume that these Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) did not comply with the order of imam Ali (عليه السلام) and subsequent imam of time in  their life instead of limited matters of son or father? : and i have no answer received yet from your side.

Also i like to see a verse of quran at least a single verse that in contradiction to verse of purification states that "a member of Ahl albayt made a mistake for married life etc" or " a member of Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) will be punished twice for his action of indecency". However these words or alike have been used for the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in the verses of quran thus confirming their mistake and disobedience. This is necessary in order to present at least an evidence of your such claims.

 

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10 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Such a naive argument. You don’t think I know this? But collective groups (such as Ahlulbayt) as a noun go into masculine. You can do better.

Also there are narrations that mention the routine of the prophet sa.w to go to the door of the house of Fatima sa and Ali and recite the verse of purification. This had been performed by the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) for 6 months after the revelation of verse.

In ‘Majma al-Zawaid’ Abu Barza12 has been reported to have said: ‘I performed my prayers along with the Holy Prophet (S) for seven months.

As and when he left his house, he went to the house of Fatima (s.a) and used to say: ‘Peace be upon you! O People of the Prophet’s House! Allah intends but to remove all sorts of uncleanness and blemish from you and to purify you with a thorough purification.’

In the ‘Tafsir’ of Suyuti, Ibn Abbas is reported to have said: ‘I noticed for nine months that the Holy Prophet (S) went to the door of Ali’s house every day when it was time for prayers and used to say: ‘Peace and blessings be upon you! O People of the Prophet’s House! Allah intends but to remove all sorts of uncleanness and blemish from you and to purify you with a thorough purification. And he repeated this act five times a day.’

In ‘Sahih’ of Tirmizi, ‘Musnad’ of Ahmad, ‘Musnad’ of Tialsi, ‘Mustadrak Sahihain’, ‘Usud al-Ghaba’ and in the ‘Tafsirs’ of Tabari, Ibn Kathir and Suyuti, Anas bin Malik13 is reported to have said that for a period of six months the Holy Prophet (S) used to pass by the door of Fatima (s.a) and say: ‘O People of the House, it is time to perform prayers’. And then added: ‘O People of the Prophet’s House! Allah intends but to remove all sorts of uncleanness and blemish from you and to purify you with a thorough purification.’

In ‘Isti’ab’, ‘Usud al-Ghaba’, ‘Majma al-Zawaid’, ‘Mushkil al-Athar’ and ‘Tafsirs’ of Tabari, Ibn Kathir and Suyuti, Abu al-Humra has been reported to have said: ‘I noticed in Medina that for a period of eight months whenever the Holy Prophet (S) came out of his house to perform morning prayers he went to the house of Ali ((عليه السلام)) and placed his hands on the two sides of the door and used to say, ‘Prayers! Prayers! O People of the Prophet’s House! Allah intends but to remove all sorts of uncleanness and blemish from you and to purify you with a thorough purification.”

In one of the narrations the period is stated to be six months, in another seven months, in the third eight months and in fourth, nine months.

In ‘Majma al-Zawaid’ and ‘Tafsir’ of Suyuti it has been quoted from Abu Saeed Khudri with a variation in words that for forty days the Holy Prophet (S) approached the house of Fatima (s.a) every morning and used to say: ‘Peace be upon you O People of the House! The time for the prayer has arrived’. And thereafter he used to recite this verse: ‘O People of the Prophet’s House! Allah intends but to remove all sorts of uncleanness and blemish from you and to purify you with a thorough purification.’ And then said: ‘I am in a state of war with him who fights with you and am in a state of peace with him who is at peace with you.’

wasalam

 

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I don’t know what to tell you man. It’s quite evident from reading the verses that Allah is pointing out the missteps of the wives and telling them how to correct it and states that he intends to remove their impurities and make them pure. If you read it differently because of a hadith then that’s your prerogative. Anyways I think this is derailing. I still need you to explain why Imam Ali is consulting the best of creation on what to do.

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1 minute ago, 786:) said:

 I still need you to explain why Imam Ali is consulting the best of creation on what to do.

I have also stated that It is obvious that there is no verse that contradicts the verse of purification and the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام) are covered the scope of that purification thus they are perfect role model for us.

56 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

Also i like to see a verse of quran at least a single verse that in contradiction to verse of purification states that "a member of Ahl albayt made a mistake for married life etc" or " a member of Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) will be punished twice for his action of indecency". However these words or alike have been used for the wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in the verses of quran thus confirming their mistake and disobedience. This is necessary in order to present at least an evidence of your such claims.

There is no such verse quoted yet from your side to provide the weight-age to your claims, thus the concept that the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahl labayt (عليه السلام) after the prophet are perfect role model is well proven. Thus if the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is absent then the other members of Ahl alabayt are to be consulted being the role model. No disagreement on it in the light of other hadith of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). wasalam

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