Protestes in america for palestine

[Guest Askingaquick]

I just want to ask a quick question, now there are many protests happening in the United States for Palestine. I usually avoid going to protests even the one for Iraq last year I just stayed home. Do you guys think its best to not go and stay home? what are your thoughts on this? 

[notme]

We Muslims should always stand up against oppressors and for the oppressed, but I'm not convinced that protests will have any positive effect. Might be more useful to gather a group of people to call your government representatives to oppose US support of Israel. But go if you are inclined. Maybe if enough people see, things will change. 

[Uni Student]

Quite a few are happening actually. Even if they aren't effective it's nice to see increased awareness among non Muslims of the younger generation

[Abdul-Hadi]

On 5/12/2021 at 6:50 AM, notme said:

I'm not convinced that protests will have any positive effect

You're correct. Protests are meaningless in America now because it has become abundantly clear over the past twenty years, beginning with the invasion and occupation of Iraq that the American government serves multinational corporate interests (usually in the financial and weapons manufacturing sector). They absolutely do not care one iota what normal people think about anything. Normal people lost any bit of control that they had over the US government 40 years ago when Ronald Reagan began parceling out the government's power to "systems of private tyrannies" (Chomsky) and Clinton merely finished the job in the 1990s.

People can protest all they want, the government doesn't listen and doesn't care. They do what their real owners want them to do regardless.

[Zainuu]

On 5/12/2021 at 2:53 PM, Guest Askingaquick said:

I just want to ask a quick question, now there are many protests happening in the United States for Palestine. I usually avoid going to protests even the one for Iraq last year I just stayed home. Do you guys think its best to not go and stay home? what are your thoughts on this? 

Yes! Do protest. Because it helps in the war on media front. MSM will hide this but if the numbers increase, it  would become difficult to lie and ignore. Plus, the unaware audience will become aware. So, protest and speak about this as much as possible.

I have heard many people, who get to know the truth through protests.

[Abdul-Hadi]

6 hours ago, Zainuu said:

MSM will hide this but if the numbers increase, it  would become difficult to lie and ignore.

No it won't, the media ignores anything that goes against it's narrative and then they'll just trot out the term "anti-semitic" to hand wave away all of the protests, compare the protesters to Nazis, so on and so forth. AIPAC is a very powerful lobby in America and most media heads just so happen to be Jews who are into the whole Zionism thing (America's colonial project in the middle east, has very little to do with religion but religion is just the excuse that they're using to justify it)

[Zainuu]

6 hours ago, Abdul-Hadi said:

No it won't, the media ignores anything that goes against it's narrative and then they'll just trot out the term "anti-semitic" to hand wave away all of the protests, compare the protesters to Nazis, so on and so forth. AIPAC is a very powerful lobby in America and most media heads just so happen to be Jews who are into the whole Zionism thing (America's colonial project in the middle east, has very little to do with religion but religion is just the excuse that they're using to justify it)

Yes but the pressure is pumping up. These protests were very less some decades ago, but now they are in millions. Because media platforms which are just a bunch of corporatists will ignore but the random public won't. 

Protests are really helpful in turning the tables. Plus, they may ignore it but they still know that it is happening. There is a hope that some of them my get struck in the heart and get defected from the corporate side to the public side. Plus, it gives confidence to the Palestinians because corporate media will ignore it but these protests spread globally through social media platforms like twitter and Palestinians see a glimmer of hope that there voice is heard and victory is near.

I see this as my perspective after listening to Palestinian accounts themselves. When they ask for help globally, they ask people to raise the voice and spread the word. 

[islamicmusic]

No matter how the MSM ignores the protests, there is always social media. And the news will spread and people will be more vigilant.

[Haji 2003]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:23 AM, Guest Askingaquick said:

I just want to ask a quick question, now there are many protests happening in the United States for Palestine. I usually avoid going to protests even the one for Iraq last year I just stayed home. Do you guys think its best to not go and stay home? what are your thoughts on this? 

There's lots of different ways you can protest.

1. Actually physically attending a real one. There is certainly strength in numbers.
2. Liking and sharing posts on social media and adding comments as appropriate
   1. Be sure to support mainstream politicians (especially non-Muslim ones) who are putting their careers on the line
   2. And avoid cranks, racists etc
   3. Watch out for any fake stuff, but if it seems legitimate make sure you share news/videos that others may miss
3. Feel free to poke fun at and respectfully denigrate people like the Gulf states
4. Support those non-Muslim groups who are helping the cause e.g. those fighting for a united Ireland

What you should not do is hide out of fear or embarrassment or some trumped up excuse that it's nothing to do with you, or Palestinians are ungrateful Sunnis etc.

[Abdul-Hadi]

17 hours ago, Zainuu said:

Protests are really helpful in turning the tables. Plus, they may ignore it but they still know that it is happening. There is a hope that some of them my get struck in the heart and get defected from the corporate side to the public side.

So long as people are treating it and approaching it from the perspective of being a religious conflict, nothing is going to happen and the state of Israel is going to continue on. This is why I say that it is "America's colonial project in the Middle East" because aside from that being the truth, colonialism has in the past five years or so, gotten a really bad rap by the hysterical, LGBT-obsessed Western Left. You can't frame your feelings about the occupation of Palestine in terms of religious ones, because these people on the left don't care about religion and in case you weren't already aware, once they get done thoroughly denigrating and destroying Christianity in America and the West, they're going to begin to work to do the same thing to Islam because Islam isn't "inclusive" ("inclusive" means not merely tolerating, but being openly congratulatory and celebratory of homosexuality, encouraging people but primarily women to sleep around and not have kids, all traditionalism must be undermined and destroyed, state atheism, etc). The American left, while claiming to like Muslims because they associate Islam with being dark-skinned and they all hate themselves for being white, does not have any respect for Islam because it is "backwards" and "oppressive" and because it's a religion, which they seek to do away with in society. So don't think that the American left are your allies when it comes to anything, because they aren't.

As far as the right goes: They're obsessed with Israel because they believe that the existence and prosperity of Israel fulfills Biblical prophecies about the Rapture™ and subsequent return of Jesus (عليه السلام). They are always going to back Israel because they see it primarily as a religious issue and are happy that Muslims are being persecuted by the state of Israel because if there's one thing that the right in America hates more than the left, it's Islam because they see Islam as a foreign religion of dark-skinned people (who most of them do not like) that is interfering with their vision of establishing an evangelical theocracy in America and the West. So as long as Israel exists and is persecuting people who happen to be Muslim, the American right is going to back them and continue to aid them with money, weapons, logistics, so on and so forth. They don't feel any guilt about it being a colonial project because the majority of them are at least closeted White supremacists who support the idea of a "white" state projecting America's military power into the Middle East.

The entire thing is a bad situation because there are no real allies that exist in America and the West who realize exactly why what's going on with Israel and Palestine is morally wrong. So it's an uphill battle.

[Zainuu]

6 hours ago, Abdul-Hadi said:

So long as people are treating it and approaching it from the perspective of being a religious conflict, nothing is going to happen and the state of Israel is going to continue on. This is why I say that it is "America's colonial project in the Middle East" because aside from that being the truth, colonialism has in the past five years or so, gotten a really bad rap by the hysterical, LGBT-obsessed Western Left. You can't frame your feelings about the occupation of Palestine in terms of religious ones, because these people on the left don't care about religion and in case you weren't already aware, once they get done thoroughly denigrating and destroying Christianity in America and the West, they're going to begin to work to do the same thing to Islam because Islam isn't "inclusive" ("inclusive" means not merely tolerating, but being openly congratulatory and celebratory of homosexuality, encouraging people but primarily women to sleep around and not have kids, all traditionalism must be undermined and destroyed, state atheism, etc). The American left, while claiming to like Muslims because they associate Islam with being dark-skinned and they all hate themselves for being white, does not have any respect for Islam because it is "backwards" and "oppressive" and because it's a religion, which they seek to do away with in society. So don't think that the American left are your allies when it comes to anything, because they aren't

Salaam,

Yes agree. But I am not talking from a religious point of view. Siding with Palestine doesn't require someone to be a Muslim. I don't care who's what with regards to there personal things. As long as they know about the Palestinian cause and take the right side, there is no problem. I am not saying that we should give Dawah to the people but simply protest against oppression. 

And no, either they will come after Islam or they will accept it. What if leftists give up this LGBT thing and fake feminism? This is all about perspective actually. I don't side with left or right because both have some good, some bad points. Anyone who can see through the truth is the right person. For example, progressive left who speaks out truth without caring about how 'leftist' it appeals is smeared as 'right winger' among the leftist crowd. Same goes with the right wing. 

So, all this grouping up and identity politics is irrational. If religion is introduced to people correctly, the ones who are ready to accept the truth, will accept it.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you

[Abdul-Hadi]

3 hours ago, Zainuu said:

But I am not talking from a religious point of view.

I'm not saying that you specifically are, but I do see a lot of people in other forums who side with Palestine or Israel based simply on religious reasons & what I'm trying to get at, is that this is not an effective way to broach the subject because it's not a religious conflict: It's the case of America and the West operating a colonial project in the Middle East that has had disastrous consequences from a humanitarian perspective. This alone is the reason why Israel is in the wrong. However if you try to explain that to an evangelical Christian in the West, inevitably they will bring religion into it because they believe that Israel has to exist and do what it's doing in order to fulfill "Biblical prophecy" that they hope will make Jesus (عليه السلام) return to Earth quicker to take them up into the clouds and then he'll punish all of the people who didn't "Get Saved™"... mainly Muslims and Jews.

 

3 hours ago, Zainuu said:

What if leftists give up this LGBT thing and fake feminism?

They aren't going to, that's the thing. These two issues are fundamentally a part of their program and their agenda for the world. They hate religion because religion has rules that they do not believe that they should have to follow because these rules do not allow people to live alternative lifestyles based primarily around sex. See, everything with them boils down to sex. Sex is the idol that the left bows down to worship. Everything with them has to be centered around it an inevitably come back to it. This is apparent when you watch American television or movies, listen to American popular music, look at the way these so called "liberated feminists" dress, so on and so forth. Because Islam has very clear rules about this sort of thing and answers to the Higher Power, their eventual goal is to undermine and destroy it the way they have already done with Christianity in America. They're more than happy to claim Muslims as allies and pretend that they care about the liberation of Palestine, but they only care about it because their enemies across the aisle are firmly in the bag for Israel. As soon as they get what they want with the help of Muslims, they are going to begin infiltrating, denigrating, degenerating, and destroying Islam. Because that's what they do: tear down tradition so that they don't have to feel guilty about their alternative lifestyles.

 

 

3 hours ago, Zainuu said:

I don't side with left or right because both have some good, some bad points.

We're actually in the same camp on this one. The left has some things I like, the right has a few things that I like, but I don't side with either because I am not even allowed to vote anymore, so there really is no point in worrying about politics. Especially when I know that Islam lays out the way that society should be as a whole.

 

 

3 hours ago, Zainuu said:

all this grouping up and identity politics is irrational.

Yes but both sides of this issue are using identity politics to justify what they are doing. The Right is using appeals to anti-semitism in order to argue for continuing the colonial project because "the Jews deserve their own homeland, don't you remember the Holocaust?" and the Left is using reactionary politics to support Palestine because Palestinians are, in their limited viewpoint "brown" people and the current narrative on the left is that "brown" people are always right and "whites" are always wrong. The left does not care about Palestinians at all, they merely see them as pawns to "ally" with in order to have numbers behind them to ram through their Maoist and fundamentally atheist worldview in the West and like I said, once Muslims or in this case, Palestinians, give them what they want to achieve power and implement their agenda, they're going to be working overtime to destroy Palestine's Muslim culture and heritage and replace it with their "inclusive global community" agenda because Palestine is a Muslim culture and Islam has very specific rules about the LGBT thing and the nature of women in society.


Like I said, if you really care about the liberation of Palestine from colonial oppression, it's a very big uphill battle and most people haven't realized yet that this battle is just getting started for those of us who are fortunate enough not to live under Israeli occupation. Don't get discouraged though, there are some people out there like Noam Chomsky, a Jew, who makes a great case against the imperial project going on in Palestine and I encourage everyone to listen to what he has to say about the plight of the Palestinian people.


 

 

3 hours ago, Zainuu said:

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you

Thank you and the same to you. Don't give up hope regardless of how uphill of a battle this is.

[Zainuu]

1 hour ago, Abdul-Hadi said:

They aren't going to, that's the thing. These two issues are fundamentally a part of their program and their agenda for the world. They hate religion because religion has rules that they do not believe that they should have to follow because these rules do not allow people to live alternative lifestyles based primarily around sex. See, everything with them boils down to sex. Sex is the idol that the left bows down to worship. Everything with them has to be centered around it an inevitably come back to it. This is apparent when you watch American television or movies, listen to American popular music, look at the way these so called "liberated feminists" dress, so on and so forth. Because Islam has very clear rules about this sort of thing and answers to the Higher Power, their eventual goal is to undermine and destroy it the way they have already done with Christianity in America. They're more than happy to claim Muslims as allies and pretend that they care about the liberation of Palestine, but they only care about it because their enemies across the aisle are firmly in the bag for Israel. As soon as they get what they want with the help of Muslims, they are going to begin infiltrating, denigrating, degenerating, and destroying Islam. Because that's what they do: tear down tradition so that they don't have to feel guilty about their alternative lifestyles

I agree with almost everything and you were right on the spot with actually what needs to be done. But I have still.a certain optimism about certain groups on the left. You know leftists is a heavily divided camp. Specifically, from the day I started to follow American politics I understood that there are actually 3 camps in the left side alone:

1. Corporate left which is just an imposter and there is nothing leftist about it. They are pure opportunists and in fact worse than right wing.

2. Pretend progressive left/popular progressives: To be precise, I call them controlled opposition and cowards which have some values within them but they end up siding with the corporate left.

3. This last camp which is literally the most alien in the US and sometimes called the 'far/extremist left' and leftists of above 2 categories call them 'right wingers' is the one which is the most sensible.  

My optimism in left is associated with the last one. They don't really care whom they are favoring. They just point out the right things. As you quoted Chomsky, who lies in the same camp (but still I find him a bit more pretencious so he ends up in the 2nd category). But people like Dr Norman Finkelstein (who I would call the most trusted and learned intellectual on the Israel Palestine issue) and then Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate. Now, these people do care about the leftist values like 'feminism' and 'lgbt' but there persception changes over the time. They are flexible. They don't stick to one thought and just keep moving. Only such people who change themselves can change. Max was in favor of Syrian regime change attempt but he changed the side when things became more clear to him. There are many more examples but still it is just bread crumbs in front of the huge left and right crowds.

 

Interesting it is that they all are victims of the massive fake propaganda machinery and to break through this vast apparatus of lies is not easy. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will grant them rewards for there own struggle in whatever way they are doing. 

[Abdul-Hadi]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:47 PM, Zainuu said:

Now, these people do care about the leftist values like 'feminism' and 'lgbt' but there persception changes over the time.

I don't like to keep harping on these two issues specifically when there are people in the world with actual life-or-death problems (Palestine) but it's because of the change in American culture that I have witnessed in my lifetime that I warn brothers and sisters about it and advise them to never allow that stuff to come to their countries. I've seen how it has destroyed religion in America and the proverbial cat is so far out of the bag now that we'll never be able to get it back to the way it used to be, and I fear that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is going to destroy America and those within it the way that he destroyed the people of Lut for the same sins. I live here, so I don't exactly want to see the country be destroyed because I will be destroyed with it.

When you look at America, it's already happening. People have set up alternative lifestyles as an idol that they place before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in terms of importance and if there's one thing that I remember from the Bible, one verse that has always stuck out to me while I watched American public morals and by extension culture begin to become the open sewer that it is, is Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. You'd be hard pressed to find a Christian church that is still willing to preach this verse though, cancel culture and the amazing pressure from the secularists has all but silenced churches from speaking the truth to people anymore. We have "churches" and "synagogues" in America now that will marry two men or two women, or two men pretending to be women!

America is sowing wickedness by exporting feminism and LGBT ideology to the rest of the world under the guise of "progressivism" and it's not going to end well for us. America also has it's intellectual superstars mocking and blaspheming Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and all his Prophets (عليه السلام) on television, in music, and especially art and theater now. I wish it wasn't like this and I warn people of what's going to happen if it keeps up, but I get laughed at and "canceled" by the outrage mob for doing so, with people who have threatened to "find out who my employer is and get me fired" for merely speaking Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) truth about these issues.

The only thing I can really do is pray for these people that they will change their ways before it's too late for all of us, but part of me feels like Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given them over to their debasement to make them as a sign for those of us who still believe in Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and specifically to show the Muslim world why they should continue to resist American occupation of their lands.

[Zainuu]

20 hours ago, Abdul-Hadi said:

I don't like to keep harping on these two issues specifically when there are people in the world with actual life-or-death problems (Palestine) but it's because of the change in American culture that I have witnessed in my lifetime that I warn brothers and sisters about it and advise them to never allow that stuff to come to their countries. I've seen how it has destroyed religion in America and the proverbial cat is so far out of the bag now that we'll never be able to get it back to the way it used to be, and I fear that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is going to destroy America and those within it the way that he destroyed the people of Lut for the same sins. I live here, so I don't exactly want to see the country be destroyed because I will be destroyed with it.

When you look at America, it's already happening. People have set up alternative lifestyles as an idol that they place before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in terms of importance and if there's one thing that I remember from the Bible, one verse that has always stuck out to me while I watched American public morals and by extension culture begin to become the open sewer that it is, is Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. You'd be hard pressed to find a Christian church that is still willing to preach this verse though, cancel culture and the amazing pressure from the secularists has all but silenced churches from speaking the truth to people anymore. We have "churches" and "synagogues" in America now that will marry two men or two women, or two men pretending to be women!

America is sowing wickedness by exporting feminism and LGBT ideology to the rest of the world under the guise of "progressivism" and it's not going to end well for us. America also has it's intellectual superstars mocking and blaspheming Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and all his Prophets (عليه السلام) on television, in music, and especially art and theater now. I wish it wasn't like this and I warn people of what's going to happen if it keeps up, but I get laughed at and "canceled" by the outrage mob for doing so, with people who have threatened to "find out who my employer is and get me fired" for merely speaking Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) truth about these issues.

The only thing I can really do is pray for these people that they will change their ways before it's too late for all of us, but part of me feels like Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given them over to their debasement to make them as a sign for those of us who still believe in Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and specifically to show the Muslim world why they should continue to resist American occupation of their lands.

Absolutely. This is a dark side which should never be overlooked or undermined. The moral degradation of American society has reached to a level where sometimes drunkards, Prostitutes, gay and other extremely immoral and indecent people sometimes make more sense than journalists, politicials, businessmen and intellectuals. With every passing day I see that country achieving new lows in tems of morality. This is the very basic reason I will prefer living in a jungle but not US and neither of the other western imperialist countries (including Australia from East).

[Abdul-Hadi]

3 hours ago, Zainuu said:

The moral degradation of American society has reached to a level where sometimes drunkards, Prostitutes, gay and other extremely immoral and indecent people sometimes make more sense than journalists, politicials, businessmen and intellectuals. With every passing day I see that country achieving new lows in tems of morality.

Our politicians, journalists, businessmen, and intellectuals are also often degenerates as well, because they just...keep...pushing this stuff on to people. Liberal politicians are the worst because they openly display contempt for religious people and traditionalism. They want "Muslim" to mean nothing more than a synonym for "Arab"; a racial category that they can then weaponize against those of us who refuse to get on "The Right Side of History" (a favorite term of theirs used to bully religious people into accepting the feminist/LGBT agenda by suggesting that you as the religious person, are like the German Nazis or Southern Confederacy for having non-negotiable values and answering to a higher authority). They do this because the elite class that forms the core of the liberal wing of the politicians believe themselves to be gods who not only "know what's best for people" but are not bound by the same laws and do not answer to the common folks. Their utter contempt for what average people think is on display fully and always when they use disparaging terms like "flyover country" to refer to the more religious parts of America that still hold somewhat to traditional values (Flyover country is anywhere that isn't on either the East or West coasts).

And every single day the bar for morality is set lower. We're really scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of how much more depravity the nation can take before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) decides to destroy it like he did with Lut's people and it really does scare me, because I believe that soon they're going to be using groups like BLM and Antifa as enforcers to go after anyone that they suspect of holding to traditional values, not voting for liberal politicians, practicing a religious tradition, so on and so forth. The liberal class, through the social media outlets that they themselves control, have already stated that anyone who is not willing to be celebratory in regard to sexual degeneracy and feminism should have the employers harassed and bothered until they are fired from their job, if they own a business it should be boycotted until it forced to shut down, all of this for the religious people's refusal to disobey Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and refusal to engage in certain cultural signals. It's frightening to me and I have to just trust that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will win in the end, but sometimes that's harder than it should be.