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In the Name of God بسم الله

Was the Mahdi 'transferred' (or did he die) after his occultation?

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Posted (edited)

In 'The Promised Mahdi' part 1 (Biharul Anwar vol 51-53) page 38 we read, "So when Allah hides my person and transfers me, and you see my Shia disputing, inform the reliable ones of them." (This is #25- Ghaibat Tusi: Ibne Abil Jayyid has narrated from Ibne Walid from Saffar from (Muhammad) Ibne Abdullah Mutahhari from Hakima binte Muhammad bin Ali Reza that she said: pdf from https://en.wikishia.net/view/Bihar_al-anwar_(book) )

Here it says that the Mahdi was 'transferred' after his occultation - does this mean that he was taken to heaven?

Another translation, from a sunni anti-shia work, has the first part as being, "When Allah makes my body disappear and gives me death" (p1138 of Uṣūl Madh-hab al-Shīʿah al-Imāmiyyah al-Ithnā ʿAshariyyah A Comprehensive Study of the Shīʿah creed, https://mahajjah.com/usul-madhab-al-shia-al-imamiyyah-al-ithna-ashariyyah/ ).

I know that there is an Arabic word which literally means 'taken' but is always used to refer to taking in death (except for Jesus in the Quran!). Is this the word which is used in the original Arabic?

How is this understood? While not a Muslim, I can easily accept the Mahdi being taken to heaven like Elijah.

Thanks for your help.

Richard

 

 

Edited by EasternQibla
typo in title
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  • EasternQibla changed the title to Was the Mahdi 'transferred' (or did he die) after his occultation?
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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, EasternQibla said:

In 'The Promised Mahdi' part 1 (Biharul Anwar vol 51-53) page 38 we read, "So when Allah hides my person and transfers me, and you see my Shia disputing, inform the reliable ones of them." (This is #25- Ghaibat Tusi: Ibne Abil Jayyid has narrated from Ibne Walid from Saffar from (Muhammad) Ibne Abdullah Mutahhari from Hakima binte Muhammad bin Ali Reza that she said: pdf from https://en.wikishia.net/view/Bihar_al-anwar_(book) )

Here it says that the Mahdi was 'transferred' after his occultation - does this mean that he was taken to heaven?

From the same hadtih:

25- Ghaibat Tusi: Ibne Abil Jayyid has narrated from Ibne Walid from Saffar from (Muhammad) Ibne Abdullah Mutahhari from Hakima binte Muhammad bin Ali Reza that she said:.............

.......Then Imam Hasan Askari ((عليه السلام).) gave him to me and said: “O Aunt, return him to his mother so her heart may rejoice and may she grieve not and so she may know that the promise of Allah is true, but the majority of the people donot know.
I returned him to his mother while the second dawn had brightened. I performed the Fajr prayers and then said my post prayers devotions until sunrise. I bid Imam Hasan Askari ((عليه السلام).) farewell and returned to my house. When three days had passed, I became anxious to see the Wali of Allah. I went to them and started with the room where Susan was. I did not see any trace, nor heard any mention.

I did not want to ask, so I came to Imam Hasan Askari ((عليه السلام).). I felt bashful to begin the conversation with him by asking him. So, he began and said: “O aunt, he is in the protection of Allah, and His safeguard, and His curtain, and His eye, until Allah gives him permission. So when Allah hides my person and transfers me, and you see my Shia disputing, inform the reliable ones of them. This must remain with you and them as a secret, for Allah hides His Wali. Allah hides him from His creation and He veils him from His servants. No one will see him until Jibraeel ((عليه السلام).) offers him his courser, in order that Allah may fulfill the enterprise that must be fulfilled.”

The words of the hadith are self explanatory and mention that Imam Mahdi will be in occultation and kept hidden from the eyes of the people.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
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  • Advanced Member
On 5/11/2021 at 7:47 AM, Muslim2010 said:

So when Allah hides my person and transfers me, and you see my Shia disputing, inform the reliable ones of them. This must remain with you and them as a secret, for Allah hides His Wali. Allah hides him from His creation and He veils him from His servants. No one will see him until Jibraeel ((عليه السلام).) offers him his courser, in order that Allah may fulfill the enterprise that must be fulfilled.”

The words of the hadith are self explanatory and mention that Imam Mahdi will be in occultation and kept hidden from the eyes of the people.

 

So what does "transfer me" refer to? Can you find out what is the Arabic word behind this translation?

I'm sure you know how to interpret your own hadith better than me, but I just found this curious. And the Sunni translation quoted above seems very clear, implying a different meaning to being hidden.

Thanks for your help; I'm just trying to understand.

Richard :)

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, EasternQibla said:

So what does "transfer me" refer to? Can you find out what is the Arabic word behind this translation?

I'm sure you know how to interpret your own hadith better than me, but I just found this curious. And the Sunni translation quoted above seems very clear, implying a different meaning to being hidden.

Thanks for your help; I'm just trying to understand.

So when Allah hides my person and transfers me, 

From the above statement apparent meaning comes is either that the Imam Mahdi son of Imam Askari is transferred back / given to Imam by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) after keeping him hidden or this may also mean the transfer or demise of Imam Askari (عليه السلام). because the rest statement after this word mentions the condition of the people as well as occultation / hiding of Imam Al Mahdi (عليه السلام)

I will also try to explore further from its Arabic text.

Regards

Edited by Muslim2010
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On 5/12/2021 at 8:38 AM, Muslim2010 said:

I will also try to explore further from its Arabic text.

Just a thought: if the arabic word for "transfer" does mean just "transfer" then it could mean the mahdi being transferred to the city Jabal-sa or Mount Radwa, both of which are stated to be places where he lives. However, given that the other translation quoted above seems to have die in this place then it would be necessary to know what the arabic word is, so thank you for your help.

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On 5/12/2021 at 12:08 PM, Muslim2010 said:

the transfer or demise of Imam Askari (عليه السلام)

 

On 5/13/2021 at 7:24 PM, EasternQibla said:

Just a thought: if the arabic word for "transfer" does mean just "transfer" then it could mean the mahdi being transferred to the city Jabal-sa or Mount Radwa, both of which are stated to be places where he lives

Hi , It means about demise  of Imam Askari (عليه السلام) not transferring  Imam Mahdi (aj) which transfer also uses for changing  conditions  & attributes also Mount Radwa mentioned  in dua Nudba has been ,entioned as a place of searching  for him which Imam  Sadiq (عليه السلام) in one of his trips after returning from Hajj when he was passing  the road besides  of Mount Radwa with one of his close companions said to him without  metioning in any name that this place is a good place for a refugee  who seeks for a good place for hiding  from a tyrant ruler & city Jabal-sa Jabal-qa may refers to farthest  places in east & west of universe . 

This is the common  quote for death funeral

Inna Lillahi wa Inna Ilayhi Raji’un
(Verily we belong to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and verily to God do we return)

Quote

Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) said, ‘Verily Allah, Blessed and most High, may transfer a servant from wretchedness to prosperity, but He never transfers anyone from prosperity to wretchedness.

  • الإمامُ الصّادقُ (عَلَيهِ الّسَلامُ): إنّ اللّه‏َ تباركَ وتعالى يَنقُلُ العَبدَ مِنَ الشَّقاءِ إلى السَّعادَةِ، ولا يَنقُلُهُ مِن السَّعادةِ إلى الشَّقاءِ .
https://hadith.academyofislam.com/?q=_id:14598
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