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In the Name of God بسم الله

I need help by answering questions about 12 Mehdis and Ahmad al Hassan.


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salam aleykum

I know that you already had some discussions about the 12 Mehdis and Ahmad al Hassan, but I can't find the answer that I am looking for. A person that believes in the 12 Mehdis and Ahmad al Hassan asked me these questions below? I am sorry it's a bit much, but he says that our scholars can't answer these questions. I am sure they can answer these answers perfectly, but I couldn't find it. Can you please help me by answering these questions? May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you. 

"There's a narration that says that the Yamani, the Sufyani, and Khorasani will appear in the same year."
The word in that hadeeth used was "khurooj" (emergence).
فعن الامام الصاق عليه السلام قال " خروج الثلاثة الخراساني والسفياني واليماني في سنة واحدة في شهر واحد، في يوم واحد. وليس فيها بأهدى من راية اليماني، يهدي إلى الحق " البحار ج 52 ص 210،
وعن الإمام الباقر عليه السلام قال " خروج السفياني واليماني والخراساني في سنة واحدة في شهر واحد، في يوم واحد. نظام كنظام الخرز يتبع بعضه بعضا. فيكون البأس من كل وجه. ويل لمن ناواهم. وليس في الرايات أهدى من راية اليماني، هي راية هدى، لأنه يدعو إلى صاحبكم " البحار ج 52 ص 232
Now, consider the following hadeeth:
Imam Sadiq (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): "Before the Sufyani; an egyptian and a Yamani will appear."
[Biharul Al-Anwar v.52 p.210]
The word used here is "dhuhoor" (appearance).
Now, please state what do you understand by the word "emergence" and "appearance". And if they mean the same, how come we have 2 hadeeth showing different chronological orders of the Yamani's visibility - one with the Sufyani, and one before the Sufyani.
 

In order to reject Ahmed Alhasan's claims, one has to:

1) Prove the Prophet didn't want to write a Will in the first place

2) Prove this Will is against Quranic commandments (particularly 2:180)

3) Prove past vicegerents didn't claim their vicegerency through Divine naming, via the previous vicegerents before them

4) Provide alternative methods that were used by past vicegerents (Prophets or Imams) to be recognized and obeyed

5) Prove, through authentic hadeeth, that the current Shia Islamic scholars will ALL accept the Mahdi when he appears. If not all, then which ones will?

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam aleykum brother. Thank you so much for these information. I will read the topics you gave me. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you

 

 

:salam:

Salam Yemani will raise a short time after emerging of cursed Sufyani .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dutchzahra
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2 hours ago, Dutchzahra said:

1) Prove the Prophet didn't want to write a Will in the first place

Salam

Rasullulah(sawas) wrote a will and is authentic as it is famously narrated in ghaybat al Tusi. Because he couldn’t write his will it was narrated by imam Ali (عليه السلام). If you think from a logical point of view, a Muslim cannot leave this world if he doesn’t leave behind a will, and as narrated by rasullulah (sawas) if you die without a will it is as if you died as a jaahil. Sure the so called companions prevented him but that doesn’t  mean he didn’t have a will. 
 

2 hours ago, Dutchzahra said:

Prove this Will is against Quranic commandments

 

How? It emphasises on how it’s compulsory to leave behind a Will.

It is prescribed that when death approaches any of you—if they leave something of value—a will should be made in favour of parents and immediate family with fairness.1 ˹This is˺ an obligation on those who are mindful ˹of Allah˺
 

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7 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

salam aleykum. thank you for your answer. I really learn a lot from you all. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you all. 

That brother talks about the combination of the will and the 12 Mehdis. I saw that a brother in this topic uses the Hadith below. does this mean that this Hadith belown isn't Sahih or changed by Ahmad al Hassan? 

 

Salam

Rasullulah(sawas) wrote a will and is authentic as it is famously narrated in ghaybat al Tusi. Because he couldn’t write his will it was narrated by imam Ali (عليه السلام). If you think from a logical point of view, a Muslim cannot leave this world if he doesn’t leave behind a will, and as narrated by rasullulah (sawas) if you die without a will it is as if you died as a jaahil. Sure the so called companions prevented him but that doesn’t  mean he didn’t have a will. 
 

 

How? It emphasises on how it’s compulsory to leave behind a Will.

It is prescribed that when death approaches any of you—if they leave something of value—a will should be made in favour of parents and immediate family with fairness.1 ˹This is˺ an obligation on those who are mindful ˹of Allah˺
 

 

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salam aleykum brothers and sisters. I wrote an email to Noor Islamic education and the sheikh said that the Hadith below are weak. 

On 5/8/2021 at 11:24 AM, Dutchzahra said:

salam aleykum

I know that you already had some discussions about the 12 Mehdis and Ahmad al Hassan, but I can't find the answer that I am looking for. A person that believes in the 12 Mehdis and Ahmad al Hassan asked me these questions below? I am sorry it's a bit much, but he says that our scholars can't answer these questions. I am sure they can answer these answers perfectly, but I couldn't find it. Can you please help me by answering these questions? May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you. 

"There's a narration that says that the Yamani, the Sufyani, and Khorasani will appear in the same year."
The word in that hadeeth used was "khurooj" (emergence).
فعن الامام الصاق عليه السلام قال " خروج الثلاثة الخراساني والسفياني واليماني في سنة واحدة في شهر واحد، في يوم واحد. وليس فيها بأهدى من راية اليماني، يهدي إلى الحق " البحار ج 52 ص 210،
وعن الإمام الباقر عليه السلام قال " خروج السفياني واليماني والخراساني في سنة واحدة في شهر واحد، في يوم واحد. نظام كنظام الخرز يتبع بعضه بعضا. فيكون البأس من كل وجه. ويل لمن ناواهم. وليس في الرايات أهدى من راية اليماني، هي راية هدى، لأنه يدعو إلى صاحبكم " البحار ج 52 ص 232
Now, consider the following hadeeth:
Imam Sadiq (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): "Before the Sufyani; an egyptian and a Yamani will appear."
[Biharul Al-Anwar v.52 p.210]
The word used here is "dhuhoor" (appearance).
Now, please state what do you understand by the word "emergence" and "appearance". And if they mean the same, how come we have 2 hadeeth showing different chronological orders of the Yamani's visibility - one with the Sufyani, and one before the Sufyani.
 

In order to reject Ahmed Alhasan's claims, one has to:

1) Prove the Prophet didn't want to write a Will in the first place

2) Prove this Will is against Quranic commandments (particularly 2:180)

3) Prove past vicegerents didn't claim their vicegerency through Divine naming, via the previous vicegerents before them

4) Provide alternative methods that were used by past vicegerents (Prophets or Imams) to be recognized and obeyed

5) Prove, through authentic hadeeth, that the current Shia Islamic scholars will ALL accept the Mahdi when he appears. If not all, then which ones will?

 

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now this guy replied back with this and I don't know if these are Sahih or not. What is your oppinion and explanation? Maybe I should invite him to debate here with you guys. i am sure you will have the right answers. 

Imam AlSaadeq (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: "On the head of the 7th one from us is the relief”
Gaibat Al-Tusi p.54
Sheikh AlToosi: "It is possible that the 7th one is from him”
7th from Imam Al-Saadiq (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم):
1.Al-Kadhem 2.Al-Ridha 3.Al-Jawad 4.Al-Hadi 5.Al-Askari 6.Imam Al-Mahdi 7.Ahmed
2) Imam Al-Saadiq (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): “After the Qa’em are 11 Mahdis from the children of Hussain (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).” Usool Sitat Ashar
One would say that this hadith is about 12 Imams. How is it about 12 Imams when it’s saying 11 Mahdis from Hussain (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Doesn’t include Hasan, Hussain or even Imam Ali (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). This is about the 11 Mahdis after the 12th Imam and first Mahdi Ahmed mentioned in the Prophet’s Will.
3) And from Imam Sajad ((عليه السلام)) he said: "The Riser(Qa'im) will rise from us(meaning the Mahdi) and then after him there shall be 12 Mahdis(meaning Imams from his offspring)" Sharh Alkhbar 3/400 (Explanation News 3 / 400.) by Gathi AlNuman AlMagrebi 363 A.H
4) Prince of the believers (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: "If four names were repeated from the Imams of my sons , the fourth one is the expected and awaited one" Hedayat AlKubra p.374
No four names are repeated in the Prophet’s Will except the name of the Prophet 3 Muhammads and 1 Ahmed. All of which are names of the Prophet=4.
Many more hadiths point to the existence of 12 Mahdis after the 12 Imams. Please reconsider.
 
Baha AlDeen AlNajaf said in Muntakhab AlAnwar AlMuthee'a: And what has been authentic to me is his narration from Sheikh AlSa'eed Abi Abdullah Muhammad AlMufeed(may Allah have mercy on him) raised to Mufathel son of Umar [thiqa according to Mufeed], he said: I heard Aba Abdullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) saying:
"The companion of the affair has two occultations, one of them will be long until some of them say that he died and some of them will say he is killed and some of them will say he left until no one remains with his affair from his companions except a small part of his companions and no one will know about his place, not even his children or others *except the mawla that will succeed his affair*."
- Imam Mahdi has children
- There will be a Mawla that will meet him during his occultation, which will succeed in his affair.
 
Imam Abu Abdillah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): "Writing a will is an obligation, and the Messenger of Allah PBUHAP did leave behind a will. It's an obligation for muslims to do the same."
[Man La Yadurruhu Al-Faqih p.181]
Prince of believers said: "If four names were repeated from the Imams of my sons, the fourth one is the expected and awaited one."
[Hedayat AlKubra p.374]
And from Imam Sajad ((عليه السلام).) he said: "The Riser (Qa'im) will rise from us (meaning the Mahdi) and then AFTER HIM there shall be 12 Mahdis (meaning Imams from his offspring)"
Sharh Alakhbar 3/400 (Explanation News 3/400) by Gathi AlNuman AlMaghrebi 363 AH.
Imam Jaafar [(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)] said: "O Allah be for your guardian, the one who rises with your matter, Muhammad ibn Hassan, to his fathers peace and blessings in this hour and every hour, a patron, a protector, a leader, a victor, an evidence, and assistant, until you make him on earth be supported and make him enjoy its height and breadth and make for him an offspring, Imams who inherit.”
Bihar Al Anwar. Vol.49, p.349
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17 hours ago, Dutchzahra said:

In order to reject Ahmed Alhasan's claims, one has to:

1) Prove the Prophet didn't want to write a Will in the first place

2) Prove this Will is against Quranic commandments (particularly 2:180)

3) Prove past vicegerents didn't claim their vicegerency through Divine naming, via the previous vicegerents before them

4) Provide alternative methods that were used by past vicegerents (Prophets or Imams) to be recognized and obeyed

5) Prove, through authentic hadeeth, that the current Shia Islamic scholars will ALL accept the Mahdi when he appears. If not all, then which ones will?

Salam 

1. Every word of prophet Muhammad  since Ghadir has been his will which some part of it was for public & some of it was orall advices  in private for Imam Ali(عليه السلام) which he orally  has dictated it to people which public part like Ghadir ceremony  has written  by both of Shiss & Sunnis & some part of his private advices  mentioned  in some shia hadiths  but there is no self written  will by prophet  (pbu) .

2.All of words of prophet  Muhammad (pbu) has been  in coherence  with holy Quran like his oral will in no.1

3.There is some narrations  which shows that how they proved their divine right.

4.Many time time they claimed their divine right but they rejected by majority  of people like Bani Israel denied Asif as vicegerent of prophet  Solomon (عليه السلام) even they denied position of prophet  Harun (عليه السلام) when prophet Musa (عليه السلام) was still alive & went to promised place but they started worshiping  calf & rejected  prophet  Harun (عليه السلام) as his vicegerent .

5.It's mentioned  a group  of them will reject him after his coming to Kufa but rest of "Shia Islamic scholars" will accept  him through  signs & narrations .

 

The concept  of Mahdis after Imam Mahdi (aj) can refers back to return  of previous  Imams like return /Raja of Imam Hussain  (عليه السلام) after reappearance  of Imam Mahdi (aj) which It has mentioned  that he will rule so long after Imam Mahdi(j) which he will become too old also there is some narrations  about return  of Imam Ali(عليه السلام) & prophet  Muhammad (pbu) which mentioned that prophet(pbu)  will be last human which will die after Ima Mahdi(aj) reappearance  & he will first human which will ressurect in judgment  day as he was first creation also Imam Mahdi (aj) will reappear  as 40 years old man so he can has wife & children  after his reappearance  & It's not necessary  for him to have children  right now because  still lives in fear of his enemies as Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) mentioned  that reason of his occultation  is because  of his fear from death by his enemies  until he will has enough  people  for his protection .

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Posted (edited)

salam aleykum. thank you so much. I have learned a lot. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you. 

I only don't understand this Hadith.
who is the 4th "Muhammad" in the line of Imams mentioned here? There are only 3 Muhammads within the 12 Imams. WHO is the 4th? or do misunderstand this Hadith? 
Prince of believers said: "If four names were repeated from the Imams of my sons, the fourth one is the expected and awaited one."
[Hedayat AlKubra p.374] 
 
He wrote me this too. What is the meaning of this Hadith? 
How come Imam Jaafar As-Sadiq prayed for Imam Mahdi's offsprings?
Imam Jaafar [(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)] said: "O Allah be for your guardian, the one who rises with your matter, Muhammad ibn Hassan, to his fathers peace and blessings in this hour and every hour, a patron, a protector, a leader, a victor, an evidence, and assistant, until you make him on earth be supported and make him enjoy its height and breadth and make for him an offspring, Imams who inherit.”
Bihar Al Anwar. Vol.49, p.349 
 
Edited by Dutchzahra
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