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In the Name of God بسم الله

Did God create Colours?

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  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Cool said:

And what I am trying to convey here is that a fresh leaf will remain green whether anyone (conscious beings other than God) observe it or not. 

Because of the fact that the fresh leaf will alway reflect a specific wavelength of light i.e., green irrespective of any observer. 

Obviously this is not the case. The colour green is completely and directly related to who/what is looking at it. 

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/-ss-nmT7oAA

The brain/body of the observer is directly involved in translating wavelengths to colours. One species' brain/body may translate a wavelength to green, and another species' body/brain may translate the same wavelength to a different colour.

50 minutes ago, Cool said:

I would say that existence of light is necessary for the existence of colours.

Yes. Obviously.

Both are necessary.

Light + consciousness = colour

If either light or consciousness is absent, colours would not exist.

17 minutes ago, Cool said:

They are composed of pairs of hues whose light frequencies automatically cancel each other out in the human eye, they're supposed to be impossible to see simultaneously. Does that mean they don't exist simultaneously? 

They exist in this world as long as there's a conscious being, in this world, observing it. 

 

Edited by SoRoUsH
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11 minutes ago, SoRoUsH said:

The brain/body of the observer is directly involved in translating wavelengths to colours. One species' brain/body may translate a wavelength to green, and another species' body/brain may translate the same wavelength to a different colour.

Yes it is possible, but the colours exist irrespective of our perceptions. 

The objects which reflect light can reflect different amounts at different wavelengths. For example, plant leaves appear green because the leaves reflect more green light than they do red or blue light. To calculate the spectrum of light reaching your eye, you can measure the spectrum of the light source and then multiply it by the spectral reflectance of the surface doing the reflecting, wavelength by wavelength. (I’m simplifying things here; flourescent objects have a more complex behaviour). Both the emitted spectrum and the reflectance can be measured by scientific instruments in an objective way, without any human eyesight or human perception being involved. Spectra are objective measurements.

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16 minutes ago, SoRoUsH said:

either light or consciousness is absent, colours would not exist.

But we do see darkness, in the absence of light, we perceive black colour. We perceive the same colour in the presence of light. 

:D Is it a paradox?

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Cool said:

Both the emitted spectrum and the reflectance can be measured by scientific instruments in an objective way, without any human eyesight or human perception being involved. Spectra are objective measurements.

This doesn't matter. Wavelengths are not colours. Genotypes are not phenotypes. When I look at a phenotype, I don't say I'm looking at genes. Expressions and translations of genes are not genes. Translations of wavelengths are not wavelengths. 

As I've said repeatedly, same wavelength can be translated into different colours by two different species. The colours are not quantitative nor measurable. They're qualities. 

You haven't watched the video I posted, have you?

23 minutes ago, Cool said:

But we do see darkness, in the absence of light, we perceive black colour. We perceive the same colour in the presence of light. 

??

Seeing black requires light, too. Ambient lights. When an object absorbs all the lights, directed at it, and nothing is reflected, that object looks black. But to see that object, we still need light. Black is not darkness. They're completely different. 

We cannot see black or any colour in darkness, in the absence of any light. 

Edited by SoRoUsH
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Posted (edited)

Anyways @Cool

I feel we're going in circles. I've articulated my thoughts and have received sufficient amount of responses to see other perspectives, too. I'm done with this topic, unless you have valuable authentic narrations from our Imams (عليه السلام). I'm always open and receptive to the narrations of our Imams (عليه السلام).

Thank you!

 

Edited by SoRoUsH
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3 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

The colours are not quantitative nor measurable. They're qualities. 

Well, I use different colour meters including spectrophotometer in laboratory. These instruments automatically measure the colour in different ways. The color meter has a highly sensitive RGB photodiode as a color sensor. 

Spectrophotometer measures the spectral reflectance, transmittance, or relative irradiance of a color sample.

Now I would like to refer you the pictures taken by Voyager 1

https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/galleries/images-voyager-took/jupiter/

Kindly see the colours there. The sentient observers have seen it after sometime of the images being captured.

3 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

You haven't watched the video I posted, have you

I have just seen it. I am aware of all these things. But I do think that we are not that "conscious observer" who give things existence. 

Anyway, it was nice to discuss this subject with you.

Wassalam.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Right. So, abstract or secondary qualities, such as colours, exist in our physical world, only when there is consciousness present to perceive them. Right? 

The existence of consciousness would be necessary for the existence of secondary/abstract qualities. The latter cannot exist, in this world, without the former.

Let say that there is no human beings to observe the Apple Color. The attributes of Apple still exist. But the qualities that Apple is Red for human observer does still exist even when we don’t exist with God knowledge. If Adam the first human sees the Apple, thus the redness become manifested to reality trought his consciouness. It is like God give us the colorness of redness to us in our mind.

If one is blind because of his eyes, can God give him to see colorful images even when he does not observe the image trought his eyes? Of course He can, because colors is manifested in consciousness.

Edited by Abu Nur
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7 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

If one is blind because of his eyes, can God give him to see colorful images even when he does not observe the image trought his eyes? Of course He can, because colors is manifested in consciousness

I'm not so sure about this. 

Do people, who are born blind, dream in colour? They are conscious, but they've never seen colours with their eyes before.

 

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On 5/5/2021 at 10:12 AM, SoRoUsH said:

I'm not so sure about this. 

Do people, who are born blind, dream in colour? They are conscious, but they've never seen colours with their eyes before.

 

What I mean is that colour is related to consciousness and it possible to receive directly an image even when the eyes are close.

It is interesting when reading about barzakh life where the personal will have immaterial body and still in such a situation he can see colours.

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Guest Dramatu

We linguistically restrict our use of word color for these things we see as objects of vision. So when we ask did God create color, we mean did He create these objects of vision.

But when we ask do these objects of vision exist outside of vision we are stretching the word out of its only known habitat and this breeds incomprehension and bewilderment. 

So it's best to define a concept that comprehensibly could exist outside of vision and then ask if it actually does exists outside of vision. We cannot comprehend a color existing out of vision. (It can be known out of vision but we can know things that don't exist). So the question is incomprehensible.

 

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Putting aside colors for a second, it’s hard to believe that the “existence” of anything is purely dependent on human consciousness. In other words, human perception flipping the switch from “non-existence” to “existence”.

A more accurate terminology would be “latency” to “apparency”. Both these terms still imply existence in essence, while also explaining the association with human conscious.

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Guest Malik Dijourn
On 5/3/2021 at 11:59 AM, SoRoUsH said:

سلام

Did God create colours in the physical world, independent from our conscious observation? 

Or are colours only perceived due to the presence of a conscious observer? 

In other words, if consciousness didn't exist (or wasn't created), would this world still be colourful? 

Thanks

Salam,

There is nothing at all that is independent from “our” consciousness. I don’t mean this in a solipsistic way because “our” consciousness is not dependent on any individual (or on individuals).  It is in fact the opposite: Individual(s) depend on consciousness. So consciousness in fact is not “ours” (it doesn’t belong to me or to you).  We belong to consciousness.  And consciousness is One.  
 

So to answer your question:  

colours depend on consciousness to exist.  But consciousness does not depend on colours.  

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Around the time my daughter kept her first fast for Ramadan, I dreamt that I was close to the sun (obviously not feeling the heat!) and looking at it and being amazed by seeing colours I had never seen before.

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