Conspiracy Theory Complex on the Muslim Mind

[Abu Nur]

Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron. 13:11

Edited April 25, 2021 by Abu Nur

[Allah Seeker]

I don't agree at all! I trust people too much according to so many people. I trust my parents and wife and even close friends so much. He thinks that because I don't trust the "elite" of the world, that I won't trust everybody else? Such nonsense. 

Sitting in America he looks like he's trying hard to gain plus points with the people controlling the U.S..

So saying facts that substances are not tested is a conspiracy? 

I won't even continue till the end of this video. I lost respect for this guy. 

Islam Pulse said he was not a good guy, I guess they had a point. In my opinion. 

[BlueInk]

37 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

I don't agree at all! I trust people too much according to so many people. I trust my parents and wife and even close friends so much. He thinks that because I don't trust the "elite" of the world, that I won't trust everybody else? Such nonsense. 

Sitting in America he looks like he's trying hard to gain plus points with the people controlling the U.S..

So saying facts that substances are not tested is a conspiracy? 

I won't even continue till the end of this video. I lost respect for this guy. 

Islam Pulse said he was not a good guy, I guess they had a point. In my opinion. 

“A mRNA entering my body can change the activity of enzymes, cause upregulation or down regulation of receptors, alter the activity at neuronal synapses, modify the function or hormones, give me cancer, give me diabetes”

-starlight

 

According to this scholar, the conspiracy theorist is one who

1. Lives in Isolation

2. Thinks he’s perfect and sinless

3. Is in despair and believes he’s doing as Allah has commanded him.

Does that not sound like our Imam?

 

This scholar declares that Germany is the best country in Europe if not the world.

Does he also know that Germany has the largest LGBT community in Europe?

Then he says we must all follow Covid mandates set by the governments. Then he says we must all connect with everyone, don’t isolate, open our homes to everyone. So what about the social distancing and lockdown laws?

This scholar is all over the place. He says don’t be suspicious then he says but be suspicious of the enemy but not like conspiracy theorist but like normal people who are suspicious?

 

 

indeed. Allah will not change a people until they change what is within themselves.

so we will continue to see the Muslims all over the world being butchered, being convinced to become atheists, agnostic, some even decide to become Christians or Jews, Zoroastrians, etc. 

ShiaChat is a nexus for the Shia communities in the west. It’s very open and since it is shia, it is a target for surveillance. The purpose of this forum is to discuss science, religion, politics, world events, life. Why are we shut down and attacked for questioning? This is not how our Prophet would have acted.

this means whoever becomies an administrator or a mod is given certain responsibilities, mainly to tow the line/ official narrative.
 

Note, readers, how in previous threads it was always the mods and ignorant people who attacked anyone who even dared to question the efficacy of the vaccine, it’s contents, it’s purposes beyond COVID, the situation within and around COVID and the effects on the minds of people, etc.

 

what you are seeing is mass-psychosis. A state of being disconnected from reality.

 

is it healthy to think about your actions and how they will effect you? 

for example, when in the office or dealing with the governing board, you’re ready to wage war and get your points across. You’ll think carefully about everything and the effects of your words and actions down the road.

 

but when it comes to this vaccine which alters the inner workings of your cells?

Edited April 25, 2021 by BlueInk

[Abu Nur]

Quote

Sitting in America he looks like he's trying hard to gain plus points with the people controlling the U.S..

Wonderful answer, you just developed conspiracy theory out of this statement. 

I bear witness that you people are nothing but bunch of lunatics that need serious therapy and who will bring nothing benefit for Muslim Ummah but instead feed them will all the nonsense that cause them decrease in their thinking, rational knowledge and judgement. All of your speech are nothing but "he looks, it appear, can, etc" causing people confusion. 

They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. 4:157

And most of them follow nothing but conjecture. Certainly, conjecture can be of no avail against the truth. Surely, Allah is All-Aware of what they do. 10:36

[Berber-Shia]

His Brother lol

Edited April 25, 2021 by Berber-Shia

[BlueInk]

15 minutes ago, Berber-Shia said:

His Brother lol

Are they about to kiss?

[Zainuu]

2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron. 13:11

He makes sense when it comes to normal Fiqhi Issues like purity, Salaat, fasting and all such faith related issues. But brother, I would recommend you strongly not to listen to him in matters of politics and conspiracies etc. He has no basis in these things. And I believe the entire Qazwinis are the same. 

He supports Biden to such an extent that he prayed for Biden in Karbala. He has always been aligned with the US corporate system which is obviously controlled by the elitists which largely are the democrats. 

And I don't know conspiracy theories. Frankly, I don't care about this vaccine thing. People are dying so I cannot put my opinion on how good or bad it is. But most of the times when the mainstream calls something a 'conspiracy theory', it maybe the reality.

[guest 2025]

Salam, his family is not close to any evil people. I'd know because I go to their mosque and see their office and how they work. What people should understand is that a lot of Sheikhs and Sayyids are on their own special missions, doing something that only they can.

Sistani specialized in jurisprudence, that's what he does. He doesn't give speeches or sermons.  Khomeini specialized in revolutions, he was like that long before any whiff of the Iran Revolution. Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr, as amazing as he was, was not a speaker. Instead he focused on his specialty and defeated the fast growing poisonous ideology of communism with his books. His mind was a threat to oppressors. Some scholars are the only ones that a community will accept because they are one of them, some scholars dedicate themselves to a specific charity, some scholars focus on teaching.

The Qazwinis, have been trying to rectify the image of Muslims for nearly 20 years. That's what they do. After 9/11 happened, Hasan Qazwini was going around all over the place talking to people about Islam, showing Americans that Muslims are here to be good members of society. And if Americans see them behaving diplomatically with high figures then of course that's a good thing because it builds trust and makes them more receptive to what they have to say. 

And I say Qazwinis, but they are not one entity. But as for the older ones in America, I think the focus of their career was to fix our damaged image, and to reassure Americans that we are not here to cause trouble. Him saying stuff like this is a small hit for a big gain. Imagine if soon after 9/11 he came out and said "Wake up Americans! The government is behind this!" Nobody would listen to him and our image would take even longer to fix. You have to bring yourself down to the level of a child and talk like them and think like them, so you can then persuade them to clean their room.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by guest 2025

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BlueInk said:

this means whoever becomies an administrator or a mod is given certain responsibilities, mainly to tow the line/ official narrative.

Stop.I have had enough of this constant slander.  You repeating this over and over and those agreeing with you alone goes to show how inclined you are to believe nonsense. 

Repeat this ONE MORE time, and I swear, I will take you before Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on the Day of Judgement and ask you to prove your slander. 

[guest 2025]

26 minutes ago, starlight said:

Stop.I have had enough of this constant slander.  You repeating this over and over and those agreeing with you alone goes to show how inclined you are to believe nonsense. 

Repeat this ONE MORE time, and I swear, I will take you before Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on the Day of Judgement and ask you to prove your slander. 

This brother is crossing the line and I disagree with him, but I can understand his frustration because it does feel like the mods, some of whom seem to be anti-conspiracy theory, sometimes, rarely, use their muscle in a way that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Such as locking threads, changing titles, or putting a disclaimer at the top of the page which puts down the argument of the sceptics. That's not to say that these are bad things, but sometimes I question if that was really necessary, or what really niggles me, if that came from a place of cold objective prudence or from a personal place. Hearing things that are insulting also doesn't help. People don't just say I'm wrong, they say there's something wrong with me. That I have a complex. But of course we must acknowledge that we are guilty of the same, as we think there's something wrong with people who don't believe in conspiracies. 

All of these things doesn't mean the mods are in with deep state, but I can see how they can take their frustration one step too far.

Edited April 25, 2021 by guest 2025

[Abu Nur]

2 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

So the rules of the site don't apply to you or anybody debating on your side? 

@Ali whom should I report to? Earlier your friend @Haji 2003 said there was no free speech on the topic and that those holding our opinions should be banned, locked up in mental assylums and treated as terrorist.

Mods and admins insulting is ok now? 

My personal analysis of the matter is that some people are panicking out of fear of death and Corona, so your flight-or-fight instinct is kicking in, which leads to you talking this way, and putting fuel into the fitna. We don't need more division, apartheid and hate! Let's discuss rationally without insults and oppression. 

Allah says we should not be divided, or else we will be weak. Who benefits? 

I said it because it is not meant to be insulting but truth. I don't care if I will get warning out of it or I will be removed as moderator, for me this is a truth and something that need to be already said.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, BlueInk said:

Did you yourself not provide us with those very words?

What words??? That we are given a responsibility to drive an official narrative? I am surprised at your audacity to post this.

Multiple threads over the past few days where you and your tag team relentlessly attacked the moderating team. I ignored a dozen posts, stopped responding but you people are just not giving up! You think you can continue saying whatever comes to your mind and have no repercussions here or in the Akhirah? Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are so wrong. You have a crossed a line so get ready to prove that I have been given 'responsibilities' to 'tow the official narrative'. 

[Haji 2003]

2 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

Mods and admins insulting is ok now? 

It's not insulting, it's just telling you that vaccine hesitancy is killing Muslims and people who contribute to it are guilty of the same. Since this is a contagious disease, discouraging people from getting the vaccine is bio-terrorism.

[Haji 2003]

People should not ask others to PM them about conspiracy theories around public health.

Someone earlier in this thread did that and I have hidden the post and restricted their ability to post for a couple of weeks. All the other people of a similar mindset are on notice too. 

[Guest epic gamer]

3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

It's not insulting, it's just telling you that vaccine hesitancy is killing Muslims and people who contribute to it are guilty of the same. Since this is a contagious disease, discouraging people from getting the vaccine is bio-terrorism.

Salam. 

Sorry but I see this sort of thinking whenever someone says something extremely disagreeable. "I'm not being rude, I'm just saying the truth."

The virus is barely a year old, let alone the vaccine. It is not unreasonable, I think, for people to want to wait and see how things play out in the long term before they consider the vaccine.

There are some people, like notme among others, who are provaccine and make a very good and uninsulting case for it. They explain their points, say "Hey I could be wrong but it makes more sense for me to take it than not take it," and maintain a good air. While others are accusing us of having a complex, being terrorists, mocking us, sarcasm. I mean come on. 

And on the other side of the coin, those who doubt should also tone it down. We are both guilty of letting our emotions get the best of us. We can all discuss this maturely without ad hominems.

[F.M]

8 minutes ago, Guest epic gamer said:

Salam. 

Sorry but I see this sort of thinking whenever someone says something extremely disagreeable. "I'm not being rude, I'm just saying the truth."

The virus is barely a year old, let alone the vaccine. It is not unreasonable, I think, for people to want to wait and see how things play out in the long term before they consider the vaccine.

There are some people, like notme among others, who are provaccine and make a very good and uninsulting case for it. They explain their points, say "Hey I could be wrong but it makes more sense for me to take it than not take it," and maintain a good air. While others are accusing us of having a complex, being terrorists, mocking us, sarcasm. I mean come on. 

And on the other side of the coin, those who doubt should also tone it down. We are both guilty of letting our emotions get the best of us. We can all discuss this maturely without ad hominems.

exactly well said.

[notme]

Moderator note: some comments have been temporarily hidden while under review. If they are found to be in violation of shiachat rules, additional action may be taken. If the hidden comments are not in violation, they might remain hidden, or be returned. Thanks for your cooperation. Please familiarize yourself with shiachat rules and policy. 

[justAnothermuslim]

There are conspiracy theorists. There are also conspiracy deniers. There is a lesser known third group, the conspiracy factualists.

We don't have to agree with each other: Just don’t mock each other pls.

[justAnothermuslim]

D you really believe these doctors are crazy conspiracy theorists?
https://doctors4covidethics.medium.com/urgent-open-letter-from-doctors-and-scientists-to-the-european-medicines-agency-regarding-covid-19-f6e17c311595

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Guest epic gamer said:

The virus is barely a year old, let alone the vaccine. It is not unreasonable, I think, for people to want to wait and see how things play out in the long term before they consider the vaccine.

There are some people, like notme among others, who are provaccine and make a very good and uninsulting case for it. They explain their points, say "Hey I could be wrong but it makes more sense for me to take it than not take it," and maintain a good air. While others are accusing us of having a complex, being terrorists, mocking us, sarcasm. I mean come on. 

Having apprehensions and concerns about a new treatment is fine. Airing those concerns is also all right. However, what is not acceptable is:

1. Taking random information from dubious sources and presenting them as facts.

2. Having little to no knowledge of the vaccine, immune system or disease pathology and yet making scientific claims( for eg repeatedly saying mRNA vaccines will go and alter the genes when mRNA DOES NOT and this is just one)

3. Spreading misinformation about our marajae (saying our scholars haven't issued any statement about vaccine made from aborted fetuses, and know nothing about those when infact fatwas about these vaccines have been given by our Ayatullahs, many years ago, well before the pandemic hit)

4. Alleging that the mods are admins are under instructions to promote a certain narrative.

5. Insulting the fellow shias by continuously saying that people who aren't anti vaccine are of weak faith and not preparing for the return of Imam Zaman(عليه السلام). This was something which was thrown around NON STOP completely disregarding the individual circumstances of the people (frontline workers, weak immune systems because of pre existing illnesses so on and so forth)

6. Relatively minor point as compared to the offenses above , but Spamming multiple threads repeating the above. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by starlight

[313_Waiter]

15 minutes ago, starlight said:

3. Spreading misinformation about our marajae (saying our scholars haven't issued any statement about vaccine made from aborted fetuses, and know nothing about those when infact fatwas about these vaccines have been given by our Ayatullahs, many years ago, well before the pandemic hit)

Where can I find these fatāwā?

[Zainuu]

11 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

The Qazwinis, have been trying to rectify the image of Muslims for nearly 20 years. That's what they do. After 9/11 happened, Hasan Qazwini was going around all over the place talking to people about Islam, showing Americans that Muslims are here to be good members of society. And if Americans see them behaving diplomatically with high figures then of course that's a good thing because it builds trust and makes them more receptive to what they have to say. 

And I say Qazwinis, but they are not one entity. But as for the older ones in America, I think the focus of their career was to fix our damaged image, and to reassure Americans that we are not here to cause trouble. Him saying stuff like this is a small hit for a big gain. Imagine if soon after 9/11 he came out and said "Wake up Americans! The government is behind this!" Nobody would listen to him and our image would take even longer to fix. You have to bring yourself down to the level of a child and talk like them and think like them, so you can then persuade them to clean their room.

Thanks brother!!

This clarifies my doubts about them. Actually being a non-american, it gives a very wrong message to pray for those tyrants in Karbala. Yes, speeches etc are not a problem.

Even after this I think, Sayyid is quite bent towards pleasing the administration to achieve a positive attitude for muslims. 

Which is a nice thing. But at the same time, are there also preachers and speakers and scholars in US who make Muslims aware about the facts in some way? That the govt. is the latest version of Banu Umayya. And what troubles they have created in other parts of the world?

[Guest]

 

1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

Where can I find these fatāwā?

I have the answer from my Marja Ayatullah Sistani saved with me. I will share it with you. For the other marajae you will have to look them up yourself or maybe someone else can share if they have those.

 

PS. Sorry for the messy editing. It's been a tiring day.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by starlight
Added images

[F.M]

4 hours ago, starlight said:

5. Insulting the fellow shias by continuously saying that people who aren't anti vaccine are of weak faith and not preparing for the return of Imam Zaman(عليه السلام). This was something which was thrown around NON STOP completely disregarding the individual circumstances of the people (frontline workers, weak immune systems because of pre existing illnesses so on and so forth)

honesty i have seen the opposite too. 

[Allah Seeker]

14 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

I said it because it is not meant to be insulting but truth. I don't care if I will get warning out of it or I will be removed as moderator, for me this is a truth and something that need to be already said.

So directly and openly insulting us is ok as long as a mod and admin think it's the truth? Is your truth different than us mere members? 

[Allah Seeker]

13 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

It's not insulting, it's just telling you that vaccine hesitancy is killing Muslims and people who contribute to it are guilty of the same. Since this is a contagious disease, discouraging people from getting the vaccine is bio-terrorism.

It's not insulting that if members have a different medical opinion than yours, that they are terrorist who need to be locked up in mental asylum? 

I hope God never gives you any real authority. And you might want to look for a job at FEMA. Suits you kind of. 

[Allah Seeker]

13 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

People should not ask others to PM them about conspiracy theories around public health.

Someone earlier in this thread did that and I have hidden the post and restricted their ability to post for a couple of weeks. All the other people of a similar mindset are on notice too. 

In other words, we may not question anybody on what you personally think is publically healthy, even in private.

[Haji 2003]

2 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

In other words, we may not question anybody on what you personally think is publically healthy, even in private.

Encouraging people to move away from this site so that they can be groomed on a private channel to acquire and spread infection will result in a ban, yes.

We can't allow this site to become a recruitment ground for such beliefs.

 

[Allah Seeker]

54 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Encouraging people to move away from this site so that they can be groomed on a private channel to acquire and spread infection will result in a ban, yes.

We can't allow this site to become a recruitment ground for such beliefs.

 

Now you are mixing two issues. One is being banned for expressing an opinion other than yours. 

The other is telling people that they should consider spreading their ideas on a place where they wouldn't be under the threat of being banned for them, or insulted by admins and mods. 

What is exactly wrong with these exactly? 

[Haji 2003]

Some people may want to reflect on this news story from Jan 21:

Quote

 

India’s Covid-19 vaccine drive has been hampered by turnout as low as 22% in some states, as fears over the safety of the vaccine and the spread of misinformation has fuelled widespread hesitancy.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/20/indian-hesitancy-sets-back-worlds-biggest-covid-vaccination-drive

 

Some of those people who refused the vaccine in January because it wasn't supposedly tested enough, are now dead.

 

Quote

Misinformation and fake news about the vaccine was also doing the rounds on WhatsApp. In one widely circulated video, Dr Johan Denis, an alleged “medical doctor and homeopath” from Belgium, made the unsubstantiated claim that “the vaccine is not proven safe or effective” and the false statements that: “It’s a fake pandemic … it’s all been orchestrated to create fear to make you take the vaccine which might cause irreversible changes to your DNA.”

 

[313_Waiter]

I think some of the posts were getting repetitive and the brothers / sisters were not bringing any facts to the table.

As for those who don’t believe in any conspiracies and completely trust the government to look out for the people’a interest, they should look into operation MKUltra, Mockingbird, Bohemian Grove etc. They should also learn about Gary Webb, who was found dead with two gunshots on his head after he exposed the CIA’s involvement in Cocaine trafficking.

[Allah Seeker]

12 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

I think some of the posts were getting repetitive and the brothers / sisters were not bringing any facts to the table.

As for those who don’t believe in any conspiracies and completely trust the government to look out for the people’a interest, they should look into operation MKUltra, Mockingbird, Bohemian Grove etc. They should also learn about Gary Webb, who was found dead with two gunshots on his head after he exposed the CIA’s involvement in Cocaine trafficking.

That's what I'm saying. When I asked @Haji 2003 for instance. Why he thinks people like us should not have "free speech" on the matter, and should be locked up as terrorists, he said because he is of the "majority" opinion.

When I asked him then why isn't he a fan of yazid, who had the majority behind him he didn't answer. According to this logic he should be Suni or actually Christian. They are the majority too. 

So when the Quran says "most of them don't understand", does that mean that we should follow people who don't understand? 

So I ask everyone this :

What makes you trust the WHO so much when for instance the head of it has a questionable history of being part of an aggressive Marxist organization that is apparently listed as a terror organisation in the US?

Based on what can we trust these people so much? Are they imams or something? Even our own scholars, it is ok to question them and not take their goodness for granted. 

We are likewise concerned about the health of everybody, it's just we don't blindly trust those organisations and their agendas based on documented history. 

[Haji 2003]

28 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

The other is telling people that they should consider spreading their ideas on a place where they wouldn't be under the threat of being banned for them, or insulted by admins and mods.

At some future point in time we don't want people to complain that they persisted with their erroneous ideas because no-one was willing to say clearly and categorically how wrong they were.

 

[Allah Seeker]

Just now, Haji 2003 said:

At some future point in time we don't want people to complain that they persisted with their erroneous ideas because no-one was willing to say clearly and categorically how wrong they were.

 

OK you think you are right. I think I am right. There is no need to talk like we are God and 100% sure of anything. 

If you are so sure, then instead of threats and silencing opposition to your opinion, just calmly prove us wrong. 

Of you use violence and forceful language it may backfire. 

[Haji 2003]

21 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

If you are so sure, then instead of threats and silencing opposition to your opinion, just calmly prove us wrong.

The problem with presenting you people with facts is that you will come back and say that because we don't know who was on the grassy knoll, the facts can't be believed.