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In the Name of God بسم الله

What do you think of effeminate men?

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36 minutes ago, ahlulbaytkr said:

I agree with the equality that Islam teaches. I don’t agree with the feminism that is preached this day; men are below us, we women rule the world! 

There is no feminism in islam in any way or form just like other abrahamic religions as well. feminism is women being equal to men in the sense that they can do everything that men can do. God doesn't think man and woman are equal. If he did why there has never been any female prophet on earth? That's because God never intended women to be equal to men

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Dawid Das said:

There is no feminism in islam in any way or form just like other abrahamic religions as well. feminism is women being equal to men in the sense that they can do everything that men can do. God doesn't think man and woman are equal. If he did why there has never been any female prophet on earth? That's because God never intended women to be equal to men

I sort of agree. The only measure of value for a human is their level of piety and the content of their character. So the differences between all types of people is irrelevant, but we should not ignore that men and women are DIFFERENT. Men have their roles, women have theirs. But the beauty of God's mercy is that He compensates one sex's weakness with the opposite's strength. One has the other's back. The secular world does not respect this team designed by God Himself, it has contempt for it and wishes to tear it down. 

On the main topic: I loathe them. Them and masculine women. The devil loves it though.

Edited by guest 2025
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Dawid Das said:

There is no feminism in islam in any way or form just like other abrahamic religions as well. feminism is women being equal to men in the sense that they can do everything that men can do. God doesn't think man and woman are equal. If he did why there has never been any female prophet on earth? That's because God never intended women to be equal to men

This feminism is based on values of secularism. When we are living in such a society, we also want to make sure that our basic rights are not misused. This is why sometimes you find Muslim women joining these groups to pressure the society to give them rights to practice in things that they are not allowed because of their religion beliefs.

Edited by Abu Nur
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5 hours ago, Dawid Das said:

You are not a real man if you support feminism. A woman can never be equal to a man. God created man to put his will in society.

For this reason there has always only existed male prophets and never female prophets.

Interesting how you know the "mind" of God. 

The Quran says that the only thing which makes a person superior or inferior is their deeds. Men and women are equal before The Creator. 

"Effeminate" is cultural term that doesn't have any real specific meaning. What do you mean when you say it? 

Same with "feminism", it means different things to different people and in different contexts. What meaning are you using? 

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1 hour ago, notme said:

Interesting how you know the "mind" of God. 

The Quran says that the only thing which makes a person superior or inferior is their deeds. Men and women are equal before The Creator. 

"Effeminate" is cultural term that doesn't have any real specific meaning. What do you mean when you say it? 

Same with "feminism", it means different things to different people and in different contexts. What meaning are you using? 

You are right about the piety. Maybe he means the following verse:

…And the male is not like the female. [Sûrat Al ʿImrân, 3:36]

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6 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

You are right about the piety. Maybe he means the following verse:

…And the male is not like the female. [Sûrat Al ʿImrân, 3:36]

True, but being different in form and role does not imply a difference in status. 

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9 hours ago, notme said:

Interesting how you know the "mind" of God. 

The Quran says that the only thing which makes a person superior or inferior is their deeds. Men and women are equal before The Creator. 

"Effeminate" is cultural term that doesn't have any real specific meaning. What do you mean when you say it? 

Same with "feminism", it means different things to different people and in different contexts. What meaning are you using? 

Am talking about the real feminism.  the one made by secular people

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What I obviously mean by feminism when speaking against it is stuff like women shouldn't be leaders over men. If you agree with that then you are basically agreeing with me and on the same page as me because this is what am getting at...

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Women do lead. We have to sometimes. 

Men need to step up and perform their assigned role. Some forms of feminism say that we don't need men in our society. I disagree with those. Others say women are as capable and useful to society as men are. I absolutely do agree with those.

The problem isn't women taking charge and leading society; the problem is men failing to. 

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2 hours ago, notme said:

Women do lead. We have to sometimes. 

Men need to step up and perform their assigned role. Some forms of feminism say that we don't need men in our society. I disagree with those. Others say women are as capable and useful to society as men are. I absolutely do agree with those.

The problem isn't women taking charge and leading society; the problem is men failing to. 

Obviously women have to lead sometimes.

"The problem isn't women taking charge and leading society; the problem is men failing to. "

This is because of cucked laws and men no longer wants to impose traditional religious laws because they are scared of what others could think or do with them. When was the last time there was a man putting traditional religious laws in any western country which would benefit the men and women?(and even protect women) such as in some areas they can ban very revealing cloths so to reduce the amount of rapes for example. Also they could introduce laws that would prevent pre marital sex such as banning pornography and sexual education to kids.i even heard of kids as young as 13 year old already had sex while I was in Australia. We can't say it's not in any of their interest. There have clearly been religious leaders in the West(maybe they lied about being religious?) in the past but nothing was done.

But obviously it's too late for those things to happen. Its a losing case. never gonna happen. Except probably in 100-200 years as I think modern culture is not stable. every civilization has come and gone. There have even been advanced civilization(It's true just look it up with many proof available) in the past but all gone.

There's a reason ancient people loved God so much. That's because they saw God in nature. GOD was beside them. But ever since modernity came God has become further and further away from us.

maybe when the new world comes.Every one will suffer first then see God? everyone is saying the world will end but before that some thing will definitely happen and it won't be quick. It will be a period that will last long. Then the end is here. 

 

Now am sorry if all of my ranting in this comment is bothering. am just frustrated at modern society with no thought to religious tradition.  Even where I live(A country not in the west or europe). everyone has become less religious where as 20 years ago . You would think everyone was religious there. It was even rare to see someone having premarital sex(Am serious) where I live.

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9 minutes ago, Dawid Das said:

Now am sorry if all of my ranting in this comment is bothering. am just frustrated at modern society with no thought to religious tradition.  Even where I live(A country not in the west or europe). everyone has become less religious where as 20 years ago . You would think everyone was religious there. It was even rare to see someone having premarital sex(Am serious) where I live.

I feel the same way brother. In my ignorance as a youth I thought the whole sexual freedom was positive, but now we have people aborting kids, the youth confused about what gender they are and other aspects of social decay. Now we are at a point in the west where if you do not agree with some of the lewdness of society you are considered extreme and should be cancelled. People will go out of their way to insure that someone is fired because they hold xyz views. 

Muslim women now abort children. Some hop from guy to guy here in the west. That is not to say men are saints as I know of many foolish muslim men. I do not trust many in this society. Actually, I only trust Allah, His Nabi (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and the Imams. After that maybe my father and that is it. Society is collapsing. Men are more reluctant to get married because of laws set up against then. In the future I believe many men will mate with robots instead of real intimate relationships with women which is quite sad. A non-muslim friend of mine wants to have a kid artificially in a lab instead of settling down with a woman. 

I am not a good muslim at all, but what is frustrating is if I try to be a good muslim other muslims will look down upon me for taking the din so serious. I literally had a muslim female and muslim male asked me why I would want to become muslim in disgust. They hate their din but have to pretend for everyone else. What a sad state of affairs but I suppose this has all been predicted by our Nabi (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his successors (peace be upon them all). 

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36 minutes ago, MexicanVato said:

I feel the same way brother. In my ignorance as a youth I thought the whole sexual freedom was positive, but now we have people aborting kids, the youth confused about what gender they are and other aspects of social decay. Now we are at a point in the west where if you do not agree with some of the lewdness of society you are considered extreme and should be cancelled. People will go out of their way to insure that someone is fired because they hold xyz views. 

Muslim women now abort children. Some hop from guy to guy here in the west. That is not to say men are saints as I know of many foolish muslim men. I do not trust many in this society. Actually, I only trust Allah, His Nabi (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and the Imams. After that maybe my father and that is it. Society is collapsing. Men are more reluctant to get married because of laws set up against then. In the future I believe many men will mate with robots instead of real intimate relationships with women which is quite sad. A non-muslim friend of mine wants to have a kid artificially in a lab instead of settling down with a woman. 

I am not a good muslim at all, but what is frustrating is if I try to be a good muslim other muslims will look down upon me for taking the din so serious. I literally had a muslim female and muslim male asked me why I would want to become muslim in disgust. They hate their din but have to pretend for everyone else. What a sad state of affairs but I suppose this has all been predicted by our Nabi (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his successors (peace be upon them all). 

1536682424415.jpg

 

This basically summed up modern society especially the West. Also am not posting this in a way that is meant to attack women. Am just showing the evil of modern society with it's culture

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29 minutes ago, MexicanVato said:

I am not a good muslim at all, but what is frustrating is if I try to be a good muslim other muslims will look down upon me for taking the din so serious. I literally had a muslim female and muslim male asked me why I would want to become muslim in disgust. They hate their din but have to pretend for everyone else. What a sad state of affairs but I suppose this has all been predicted by our Nabi (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his successors (peace be upon them all). 

You are a living, breathing, reminder that they are failures.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Izlam/comments/jhcmt0/whats_this_backdated_person_doing_in_this_modern/

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Posted (edited)

There is some kind of war on masculinity i will agree on that. Testostereone dropping each year and men are becoming slaves to their desires. Acting like a man is seen as toxic masculinity. Masculine traits are almost only found in toxic men now because they have still retained some of it.

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Posted (edited)

From ‘The Essential Seyyed Hossein Nasr’:

Quote

The understanding of the reality of man as anthropos can be achieved more fully by also casting an eye upon the segmentations and divisions of various kinds which characterize mankind as such. The original anthropos was, according to traditional teachings, an androgynic figure, although some traditions speak of both a male and a female being whose union is then seen as the perfection identified with the androgynic state. In either case, the wholeness and perfection inherent in the human state and the bliss which is associated with sexual union belong in reality to the androgynic state before the sexes were separated. But the dualities which characterize the created order and which manifest themselves on all levels of existence below the principial, such as yin-yang, purua-prakti, activity and passivity, form and matter, could not but appear upon the plane of that androgynic reality and give birth to the male and the female, which do not, however, correspond to pure yin and pure yang. Since they are creatures they must contain both principles within themselves with one of the elements of the duality predominating in each case. The male and the female in their com- plementarity recreate the unity of the androgynic being and in fact sexual union is an earthly reflection of that paradisal ecstasy which belonged to the androgynic anthrpos. But that androgynic reality is also reflected in both man and woman in themselves, hence both the sense of complementarity and rivalry which characterizes the relation between the sexes. In any case the distinction between the male and female is not only biological. It is not even only psychological or spiritual. It has its roots in the Divine Nature Itself, man reflecting more the Absoluteness of the Divine and the woman Its Infinitude. If the face of God towards the world is envisaged in masculine terms, His inner Infinitude is symbolized by the feminine as are His Mercy and Wisdom. Human sexuality, far from being a terrestrial accident, reflects principles which are ultimately of a metacosmic significance. It is not without reason that sexuality is the only means open for human beings not endowed with the gift of spiritual vision to experience “the Infinite” through the senses, albeit for a few fleeting moments, and that sexuality leaves such a profound mark upon the soul of men and women and affects them in a manner far more enduring than other physical acts. To understand the nature of the male-female distinction in the human race and to appreciate the positive qualities which each sex displays is to gain greater insight into the nature of that androgynic being whose reality both the male and female carry at the center of their being.

 

Edited by 313_Waiter
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On 4/20/2021 at 3:10 AM, MexicanVato said:

By this I do not mean a woman should be a slave, but men are leaders, hunters and protectors.

Theoretically, what is wrong about a woman being a man’s slave? Women owe men almost everything for their existence and maintenance. Their position is similar to that of children in relation to their parents. Subservience is related to “serfdom” and hence slavery, which is not condemned in Islam. I think some people, even traditionalists, are too apologetic when defending masculinity. They always have to defend themselves by saying, “Yes, women should be subservient to men, but by no means do I imply women are to be slaves...” What is wrong about being a good slave and fulfilling one’s duties? A lot of men today are scared to exercise power, including the right to physically discipline women and children (both dependents and slaves by definition), because society has castrated men’s physical reality. A century ago plenty of men beat their children and/or wives to the point of bleeding. Now men are no longer permitted to exist, much less exercise power. Discipline must hurt, even physically, in order to be effective, especially on emotional, incompetent slaves such as women and children. Otherwise they will fail to adhere to their proper duties early on and later in life. A major component of the NWO is not only disarming men, but also preventing them from physically disciplining their slaves.

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1 minute ago, Northwest said:

Theoretically, what is wrong about a woman being a man’s slave? Women owe men almost everything for their existence and maintenance. Their position is similar to that of children in relation to their parents. Subservience is related to “serfdom” and hence slavery, which is not condemned in Islam. I think some people, even traditionalists, are too apologetic when defending masculinity. They always have to defend themselves by saying, “Yes, women should be subservient to men, but by no means do I imply women are to be slaves...” What is wrong about being a good slave and fulfilling one’s duties? A lot of men today are scared to exercise power, including the right to physically discipline women and children (both dependents and slaves by definition), because society has castrated men’s physical reality. A century ago plenty of men beat their children and/or wives to the point of bleeding. Now men are no longer permitted to exist, much less exercise power. Discipline must hurt, even physically, in order to be effective, especially on emotional, incompetent slaves such as women and children. Otherwise they will fail to adhere to their proper duties early on and later in life. A major component of the NWO is not only disarming men, but also preventing them from physically disciplining their slaves.

What the heck never knew I would see one like you on this site. This is very weird. You share views similar to this guy

1769–1821: Napoleon Bonaparte

"We treat women too well, and in this way have spoiled everything. We have done every wrong by raising them to our level. Truly the Oriental nations have more mind and sense than we in declaring the wife to be the actual property of the husband. In fact nature has made woman our slave ... Woman is given to man that she may bear children ... consequently she is his property."

"Women ... are mere machines to make children".

"Women ... are capable of committing the worst atrocities. . If war broke out between men and women, it would be quite a different business from the struggles we have seen between nobles and the people, or whites and blacks".

"Nothing is more imperious ... than weakness when it knows it is backed by strength; look at women".

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8 minutes ago, Northwest said:

Theoretically, what is wrong about a woman being a man’s slave? Women owe men almost everything for their existence and maintenance. Their position is similar to that of children in relation to their parents. Subservience is related to “serfdom” and hence slavery, which is not condemned in Islam. I think some people, even traditionalists, are too apologetic when defending masculinity. They always have to defend themselves by saying, “Yes, women should be subservient to men, but by no means do I imply women are to be slaves...” What is wrong about being a good slave and fulfilling one’s duties? A lot of men today are scared to exercise power, including the right to physically discipline women and children (both dependents and slaves by definition), because society has castrated men’s physical reality. A century ago plenty of men beat their children and/or wives to the point of bleeding. Now men are no longer permitted to exist, much less exercise power. Discipline must hurt, even physically, in order to be effective, especially on emotional, incompetent slaves such as women and children. Otherwise they will fail to adhere to their proper duties early on and later in life. A major component of the NWO is not only disarming men, but also preventing them from physically disciplining their slaves.

Hmm you make some good points. However, I will object to beating a woman. Without a doubt tho the destruction of society has been in part due to the weakening of men by governments, culture and the media. 

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1 minute ago, MexicanVato said:

Hmm you make some good points. However, I will object to beating a woman.

I think you have been “tamed,” like most men, by the false consciousness that the NWO attempts to impart: that our current order is more “civilised” than the “barbarism” of the past. There is nothing in the major religions of the world that prohibits beating women. In fact, in the major religions believing men are regarded as sovereigns in their own right who physically own their slaves, that is, women (legally acquired wives, polygamous plural) and their offspring, and to administer discipline to their rebellious subjects accordingly, up to and including capital punishment, without intervention by a court, secular or otherwise, because God-fearing men are assumed, by natural law, to have good reason for acting accordingly and are not treated as children who need to be inspected either by the state or by fellow sovereigns. It is important to think and write these thoughts over and over again, and to state them boldly, so as to “unlearn” centuries of “conditioning” by the so-called “civilised” elites.

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::Strokes beard:: perhaps you are right. I will reflect on this. There are cases however where weak men hit women, because they do not act deserving of respect, thus the woman doesn't respect him. I just simply use the Patrice O'neal method with women. I beat them logically, because they are emotional beings and end up speaking irrationally when they are fussing over their ever changing states of mind. If they don't rectify themselves, I leave them. Then suddenly they want to change. That is one of the reasons I contemplate staying single. 

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45 minutes ago, MexicanVato said:

::Strokes beard:: perhaps you are right. I will reflect on this. There are cases however where weak men hit women, because they do not act deserving of respect, thus the woman doesn't respect him.

We are all weak men these days, more or less, whether by conscious or unconscious “choice” (conditioning), regardless of our background and viewpoint. Sometimes physical punishment can be a substitute for constructive action, while at other times it is the only appropriate thing to do. I do believe, however, that men have become weak because of women’s lack of loyalty toward their masters (husbands). Historically the male elites who have furthered the NWO were under the influence of their wives. Women still are the real “power behind the throne,” even today. Men are manipulated by women to carry out actions that are detrimental to mankind’s survival and growth. Considering that women owe more to men than vice versa, women’s evildoing is arguably more impactful, at least in some cases, than men’s own sins, since women play a tremendous role in bringing up future men. Most women, for various reasons, were and are simply unqualified to be good mothers, whether in a religious sense or otherwise. I do feel that some people are putting excessive blame on men for “going their own way” instead of exploring how women have connived to exploit, rig, and shape the system in a manner that harms men, even to the point of using men as their tools to carry out their whims. Men become celibate because they see that there are few, if any, women worth marrying. That doesn’t leave men entirely off the hook, but I think they are more in the right than the women are, or at least have somewhat better excuses, at least in some cases. The point is that women owe men more than men owe women, since men spend their entire lives slaving away on behalf of women (and children), yet the women rarely, if ever, return the consummate favour. This should not be considered right or fair, yet because modern “civilisation” has promoted illusions about biological realities, people put the onus on the men rather than the women (and children). Women (and children) are too often freeloaders who expect everything for nothing, disregarding the fact that the continued existence of civilisation rests on their subservience to biology, that is, childbearing and -rearing.

Edited by Northwest
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I found what prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said about this issue which is almost identical to things said in Torah about this issue. The one in bold is from words of prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and the ones not in bold is from the Torah.

check it out

"When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler." (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 7099).

Youths oppress my people, women rule over them. My people, your guides lead you astray; they turn you from the path.
—Isaiah 3:12

another here

"I was shown Hell and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it. And I saw that the majority of its people are women.” They said, “Why, O Messenger of Allah?” He said, “Because of their ingratitude (kufr).” It was said, “Are they ungrateful to Allah?” He said, “They are ungrateful to their companions (husbands) and ungrateful for good treatment. If you are kind to one of them for a lifetime then she sees one (undesirable) thing in you, she will say, ‘I have never had anything good from you.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 1052).

While I was still searching but not finding—I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all.
—Ecclesiastes 7:28

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Salaam @Northwest,

On 4/21/2021 at 7:55 PM, Northwest said:

There is nothing in the major religions of the world that prohibits beating women

What about the following ahadith (note I am unsure of authenticity)? Would you say they are merely prohibiting a violent (mubarrih) beating or one that leaves a mark (mu’thir)? Also, have you read anything about the Ma’soomeen beating their wives in Shi’a hadith corpus?

Quote

The Prophet once said, “I am astonished at a man who beats his wife, whereas it is he himself more than his wife who deserves beating.” Bihar Al-Anwar.

“One should never torture one’s wife physically or otherwise, because whoever does so has violated the norms set by the Almighty and his Messenger,” said the Prophet. Irshadul Qulub.

“How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats his stallion and then embrace her?” said the Prophet. Sahih Al-Bukhari

The Prophet, who was a prime example of ethical leadership, never struck any woman, animal, or any person who was aggressive toward him. Aisha, wife of the Prophet, once said, “The Prophet never hit a servant, or a female, or anyone else, except in performing jihad (defending Islam).” Al-Tabaqat Al-Kubra, v. 1, p. 368.

https://www.al-islam.org/new-perspective-women-islam-fatma-saleh-sayyid-moustafa-al-qazwini/chapter-7-disciplinary-action

‘The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The most complete of believers in faith are those with the best character, and the best of you are the best in behavior to their women.”’

Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 1162

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Tirmidhi

https://www.abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadithonline/2012/01/10/best-good-character-women/

Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) narrates from his father: "When you marry a woman, respect her. She is the source of your peace. Do not hurt women and do not harm their rights. , (Bihar al anwar, v. 100, p. 224).

Source: shiachat.

 

 

On 4/21/2021 at 7:55 PM, Northwest said:

In fact, in the major religions believing men are regarded as sovereigns in their own right who physically own their slaves, that is, women (legally acquired wives, polygamous plural)

I agree that there exists a hierarchical relationship between the husband and wife, just like there exists between the mother and the son (heaven lying under her feet, for example). Nonetheless, would you agree that the true determinant of “superiority” between any two individuals, regardless of sex, race, nation, tribe or caste, is Taqwa? 
 

The Qur’an time and time again goes out of its way to use the phrase “whether male or female”. Don’t you think it is trying to indicate something?

Quote

Indeed the submitting men and the submitting women, the faithful men and the faithful women, the obedient men and the obedient women, the truthful men and the truthful women, the patient men and the patient women, the humble men and the humble women, the charitable men and the charitable women, the men who fast and the women who fast, the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, the men who remember Allah greatly and the women who remember [Allah greatly] —Allah holds in store for them forgiveness and a great reward. (33:35)

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O mankind! Indeed We created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes that you may identify yourselves with one another. Indeed the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most Godwary among you. Indeed Allah is all-knowing, all-aware (49:13)

Quote

Then their Lord answered them, ‘I do not waste the work of any worker among you, whether male or female; you are all on the same footing. So those who migrated and were expelled from their homes, and were tormented in My way, and those who fought and were killed —I will surely absolve them of their misdeeds and I will admit them into gardens with streams running in them, as a reward from Allah, and Allah—with Him is the best of rewards.’ (3:195)

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And whoever does righteous deeds, whether male or female, should he be faithful —such shall enter paradise and they will not be wronged [so much as] the speck on a date-stone. (4:124)

Quote

But the faithful, men and women, are comrades of one another: they bid what is right and forbid what is wrong and maintain the prayer, give the zakāt, and obey Allah and His Apostle. It is they to whom Allah will soon grant His mercy. Indeed Allah is all-mighty, all-wise. (9:71)

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Whoever acts righteously, [whether] male or female, should he be faithful, —We shall revive him with a good life and pay them their reward by the best of what they used to do. (16:97)

Quote

“And of His signs is that He created for you mates from your own selves that you may take comfort in them, and He ordained affection and mercy between you. There are indeed signs in that for a people who reflect.” (30:21)

Quote

Whoever commits a misdeed shall not be requited except with its like, but whoever acts righteously, whether male or female, should he be faithful —such shall enter paradise, provided therein without any reckoning. (40:40)

 

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51 minutes ago, Dawid Das said:

another here

"I was shown Hell and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it. And I saw that the majority of its people are women.” They said, “Why, O Messenger of Allah?” He said, “Because of their ingratitude (kufr).” It was said, “Are they ungrateful to Allah?” He said, “They are ungrateful to their companions (husbands) and ungrateful for good treatment. If you are kind to one of them for a lifetime then she sees one (undesirable) thing in you, she will say, ‘I have never had anything good from you.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 1052).

While I was still searching but not finding—I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all.
—Ecclesiastes 7:28

 

The Shia hadith corpus has opposite hadiths to this and a hadith refuting this Sunni Hadith:

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The narration of (Majority of people of hellfire will be women) is not authentic according to our leading scholars. It is mentioned in Sunni books like Al-Bukhari and Muslim. This narration was refuted by Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) as we read in Hadeeth 4627 in Al-Faqeeh. In fact, on the contrary we have a Hadeeth narrated by Ammaar al-Sabaati that Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq said: Majority of people in the Paradise will be women who were dealt with as weak, so Allah knew their weakness, so, He bestowed His Mercy on them. (Reference: Manla Yahdharuhul Faqeeh, by Al-Sadouq, Vol. 2, Page 468).أكثر أهل الجنة من المستضعفين النساء . علم الله ضعفهن فرحمهن )

You can see in Sunni books very strange narrations against women which have been fabricated because of the Bedwish Jaahilyyah ideas among those who were not following Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). 


 

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In the Shi'i hadith book Man La Yahduruhu al-Faqih, it is related that al-Fudayl asked Imam al-Sadiq (A), "The people are saying that most of the people in Hell will be women." Imam al-Sadiq said, "How could that be true, when a man can marry a thousand women from this world there, in a castle of pearl." 

Source: https://www.al-islam.org/ask/it-is-claimed-that-a-majority-of-people-in-hell-will-be-women-is-this-idea-supported-by-the-quran-or-hadees

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Posted (edited)
On 4/21/2021 at 11:55 AM, Northwest said:

I think you have been “tamed,” like most men, by the false consciousness that the NWO attempts to impart: that our current order is more “civilised” than the “barbarism” of the past. There is nothing in the major religions of the world that prohibits beating women. In fact, in the major religions believing men are regarded as sovereigns in their own right who physically own their slaves, that is, women (legally acquired wives, polygamous plural) and their offspring, and to administer discipline to their rebellious subjects accordingly, up to and including capital punishment, without intervention by a court, secular or otherwise, because God-fearing men are assumed, by natural law, to have good reason for acting accordingly and are not treated as children who need to be inspected either by the state or by fellow sovereigns. It is important to think and write these thoughts over and over again, and to state them boldly, so as to “unlearn” centuries of “conditioning” by the so-called “civilised” elites.

Hitting your wife is sure one way to traumatize your children and make them hate you forever. If you saw a man beat your mother wouldnt you hate him? Or your daughter? If i saw my mother be beaten i would beat up if not kill whoever it is attacking her.

Edited by Khurasani
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On 4/21/2021 at 4:19 PM, Northwest said:

We are all weak men these days, more or less, whether by conscious or unconscious “choice” (conditioning), regardless of our background and viewpoint. Sometimes physical punishment can be a substitute for constructive action, while at other times it is the only appropriate thing to do. I do believe, however, that men have become weak because of women’s lack of loyalty toward their masters (husbands). Historically the male elites who have furthered the NWO were under the influence of their wives. Women still are the real “power behind the throne,” even today. Men are manipulated by women to carry out actions that are detrimental to mankind’s survival and growth. Considering that women owe more to men than vice versa, women’s evildoing is arguably more impactful, at least in some cases, than men’s own sins, since women play a tremendous role in bringing up future men. Most women, for various reasons, were and are simply unqualified to be good mothers, whether in a religious sense or otherwise. I do feel that some people are putting excessive blame on men for “going their own way” instead of exploring how women have connived to exploit, rig, and shape the system in a manner that harms men, even to the point of using men as their tools to carry out their whims. Men become celibate because they see that there are few, if any, women worth marrying. That doesn’t leave men entirely off the hook, but I think they are more in the right than the women are, or at least have somewhat better excuses, at least in some cases. The point is that women owe men more than men owe women, since men spend their entire lives slaving away on behalf of women (and children), yet the women rarely, if ever, return the consummate favour. This should not be considered right or fair, yet because modern “civilisation” has promoted illusions about biological realities, people put the onus on the men rather than the women (and children). Women (and children) are too often freeloaders who expect everything for nothing, disregarding the fact that the continued existence of civilisation rests on their subservience to biology, that is, childbearing and -rearing.

Actually what I have came across from the sunnah and seerah of the prophets and infallibles of Islam is that woman should be given there appropriate honor regardless of there weakness in many matters of life because the weak nature of women at times is by nature and it is needed in her purpose of existence. 

Though not the way NWO and moderrnists do. NWO and modernists have actually done more worse to woman then the people of the age of Jahiliyya. Today a woman by her own will is ready to humiliate herself by exposing herself to all levels in the society. They have been successful to convince woman to serve there own desires and humiliate herself in front of everyone.

Woman of today (not all but many) are not only comfortable and fine with this materialistic treatment  and degradation of honor but they love and appreicate it. They advocate and defend it in the name of 'freedom of speech and expression' and there only red line is consent.

They will have a lot of problem with a man who they don't like, trying to talk to them or look at them. While at the same time, they will be comfortable with another in every manner, who is causing much more trouble to them. The reasons sited for such attitude are related to 'consent' and 'feelings'. 

Islam wants them to come out of it and uplift there honor by preventing such practices and actions. While, modernist thoughts want to normalisr it to a level that no one feels any shame while commiting adultery, exposing themselves or any other moral indecency etc.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) help us in these circumstances.

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1 hour ago, Zainuu said:

Actually what I have came across from the sunnah and seerah of the prophets and infallibles of Islam is that woman should be given there appropriate honor regardless of there weakness in many matters of life because the weak nature of women at times is by nature and it is needed in her purpose of existence.

Your post is very apologetic on behalf of women. The apologetic stance is a product of modernity and is falsely “read back” into Islam and the past. Honour and power are closely linked. Men clearly have more honour because they are granted more biological and other advantages that also allow them to practice Islam much more fully than women can and do. Honour is not associated with being powerless and helpless, because then one also is less able to exercise moral volition, and choose between good and evil in the widest possible sense. Your response consists of the non sequitur that women need to be honoured for their incorrigible state or nature. No, women simply need to know their place in the grand scheme of things, which is to serve believing men without complaint or protest, and behave accordingly. No apologetics or justification needed. It is what it is.

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1 hour ago, Northwest said:

Men clearly have more honour because they are granted more biological and other advantages that also allow them to practice Islam much more fully than women can and do. Honour is not associated with being powerless and helpless, because then one also is less able to exercise moral volition, and choose between good and evil in the widest possible sense. Your response consists of the non sequitur that women need to be honoured for their incorrigible state or nature. No, women simply need to know their place in the grand scheme of things, which is to serve believing men without complaint or protest, and behave accordingly. No apologetics or justification needed. It is what it is.

Sure, men may manifest more of God’s attributes of Jalāl (majesty), but what about the attributes of Jamāl (beauty) which seem to be manifested moreso in women. Attributes like compassion, mercy, gentleness and kindness.

On 4/21/2021 at 6:12 AM, 313_Waiter said:

"The understanding of the reality of man as anthropos can be achieved more fully by also casting an eye upon the segmentations and divisions of various kinds which characterize mankind as such. The original anthropos was, according to traditional teachings, an androgynic figure, although some traditions speak of both a male and a female being whose union is then seen as the perfection identified with the androgynic state. In either case, the wholeness and perfection inherent in the human state and the bliss which is associated with sexual union belong in reality to the androgynic state before the sexes were separated. But the dualities which characterize the created order and which manifest themselves on all levels of existence below the principial, such as yin-yang, purua-prakti, activity and passivity, form and matter, could not but appear upon the plane of that androgynic reality and give birth to the male and the female, which do not, however, correspond to pure yin and pure yang. Since they are creatures they must contain both principles within themselves with one of the elements of the duality predominating in each case. The male and the female in their complementarity recreate the unity of the androgynic being and in fact sexual union is an earthly reflection of that paradisal ecstasy which belonged to the androgynic anthrpos. But that androgynic reality is also reflected in both man and woman in themselves, hence both the sense of complementarity and rivalry which characterizes the relation between the sexes. In any case the distinction between the male and female is not only biological. It is not even only psychological or spiritual. It has its roots in the Divine Nature Itself, man reflecting more the Absoluteness of the Divine and the woman Its Infinitude. If the face of God towards the world is envisaged in masculine terms, His inner Infinitude is symbolized by the feminine as are His Mercy and Wisdom. Human sexuality, far from being a terrestrial accident, reflects principles which are ultimately of a metacosmic significance. It is not without reason that sexuality is the only means open for human beings not endowed with the gift of spiritual vision to experience “the Infinite” through the senses, albeit for a few fleeting moments, and that sexuality leaves such a profound mark upon the soul of men and women and affects them in a manner far more enduring than other physical acts. To understand the nature of the male-female distinction in the human race and to appreciate the positive qualities which each sex displays is to gain greater insight into the nature of that androgynic being whose reality both the male and female carry at the center of their being."

- The Essential Seyyed Hossein Nasr

See Also:

Women in Islam: An Irfani Analysis

 

 

I question why we should make it egoic and a competition in the first place, as if any of these qualities are our own.
 

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Munajat Ameerul Mu'mineen (عليه السلام) (The whispered prayer of Imam Ali (عليه السلام))

"...O Master! O my Master! You are the master and I am the slave; and who can have mercy upon a slave except the master?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Lord and I am the servant; and who can have mercy upon a servant except the lord?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Almighty and I am the humble; and who can have mercy upon the humble except the Almighty?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Creator and I am the created being; and who can have mercy upon a created being except the Creator?

O Master! O my Master! You are the All-great and I am the trivial; and who can have mercy upon the trivial except the All-great?

O Master! O my Master! You are the All-powerful and I am the weak; and who can have mercy upon the weak except the All-powerful?

O Master! O my Master! You are the All-wealthy and I am the needy; and who can have mercy upon the needy except the All-wealthy?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Donor and I am the beggar; and who can have mercy upon a beggar except the Donor?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Ever-living and I am the mortal; and who can have mercy upon a mortal except the Ever-living?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Everlasting and I am the evanescent; and who can have mercy upon an evanescent being except the Everlasting?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Eternal and I am the perishable; and who can have mercy upon a perishable being except the Eternal?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Provider of sustenance and I am the sustained; and who can have mercy upon a sustained being except the Provider of sustenance?

O Master! O my Master! You are the All-magnanimous and I am the miser; and who can have mercy upon a miser except the All-magnanimous?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Healer and I am the subject to diseases; and who can have mercy upon the sick except the Healer?

O Master! O my Master! You are the All-big and I am the tiny; and who can have mercy upon a tiny being except the Allbig (Lord)?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Guide and I am lost; and who can have mercy upon a lost one except the Guide?

O Master! O my Master! You are the All-beneficent and I am the object of Your mercy; and who can have mercy upon the needy for mercy except the All-beneficent?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Superintendent and I am the tested; and who can have mercy upon a tested except the Superintendent?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Director and I am the perplexed; and who can have mercy upon a perplexed one except the director?

O Master! O my Master! You are the All-forgiver and I am the sinful; and who can have mercy upon a sinful except the All-forgiver?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Dominant and I am the overcome; and who can have mercy upon an overcome one except the Dominant?

O Master! O my Master! You are the Raiser and I am the raised; and who can have mercy upon a raised one except the Raiser?

O Master! O my Master! You are the All-superb and I am the subservient; and who can have mercy upon a subservient except the All-superb?

O Master! O my Master! (Please do) encompass me with Your mercy and be pleased with me out of Your magnanimity, nobility, and favoring. O Lord of magnanimity, benediction, conferral of bliss, and blessing, in the name of Your mercy, O most Merciful of all those who show mercy!"

 

 

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The Holy Qur'an

"When you entered your garden, why did you not say, ‘[This is] as God wills. There is no strength save in God.’ If you see that I am less than you in wealth and children," (18:39)

"O mankind! Remember God’s Blessing upon you. Is there a creator other than God who provides for you from Heaven and earth? There is no god but He. How, then, are you perverted?" (35:3)

"O mankind! You are needful of God; and He is the Self-Sufficient, the Praised." (35:15)

"Unto God belongs sovereignty over the heavens and the earth" (3:189)

"And say, “Praise be to God, who has no child! He has no partner in sovereignty; nor has He any protector out of lowliness.” And proclaim His Greatness!" (17:111)

 

 

 

 

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