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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Many people here on SC accept the official narrative of the main stream on life. They agree with the governments and media. As long as a marja says something, it’s not even questioned regardless of what our intellect says.

We have a small minority of brothers and sisters who question the mainstream reports and seek alternative views to broaden their scope of understanding. When alternative views are presented it’s labeled as disinformation or its automatically discarded when someone calls it a conspiracy. Conspiracy literally means a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful. As a Shia how can the word conspiracy alone make you think it’s nonsense when we all know about Saqifa. They get bashed and ridiculed by other members, even moderators.
 

How can we not even question the main stream view when “main stream islam” has been lying about the Shia for centuries. How can we attack our fellow Shia for having alternative views when alternative views are why Shia Islam has grown so much. Lots of people leave Shia chat because of this, some just stay quiet. I ask all those who are staying quiet to come forward and discuss how we can unite under the banner of preparing for our beloved Imam Al Mahdi. Lets share main stream and alternative views while we discuss ways to really and thoroughly research all matters with an encompassing view.

Will Shia chat ever have a mod who doesn’t just accept the mainstream? Both sides of each argument must always be looked at carefully. 
 

In his letter to Malik al Ishtar, Imam Ali says

Then choose to judge among men him who in your sight is the most excellent of subjects, i.e., one who is not beleaguered by (complex) affairs, who is not rendered ill-tempered by the litigants, who does not persist in error, who is not distressed by returning to the truth when he recognizes it, whose soul does not descend to any kind of greed, who is not satisfied with an inferior understanding (of a thing) short of the more thorough, who hesitates most in (acting in the face of) obscurities, who adheres most to arguments, who is the least to become annoyed at the petition of the litigants, who is the most patient (in waiting) for the facts to become clear...”

If moderators are allowed to judge the information and remove post this criteria should be followed.

 

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Mods are allowed to have their opinion. In the past week you have posted on several threads without any censorship. Why are you constantly complaining about the moderators??  I still fail to the

Just as other pandemics have passed, inshaAllah this one will pass too. Unfortunately the eternal pandemic of ignorance will continue to persist. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) protect us al

None of the mods accepts the mainstream narrative. They just don't accept your narrative which comes from extreme conspiracy fearmongers. There are more than two sides.

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So far, it looks like the gatekeepers of SC only care to weigh in on threads about Muta, Masturbation, and pushing down anyone who dares to disagree with them.

all of you who are quiet: what will you tell Allah on Judgement Day? Simply following the religion of your forefathers was not accepted of the previous generations. 
 

are you happy being a slave to one who does not care about you? You’re going to trust clueless “scholars”? 
 

Were the scholars not the ones most harshly criticized for their cowardice and sloth before Karbala? 

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Moderator. Mean to Moderate an discussion. Not take side or use their our bias in discussions.  Allow the two people to discuss the issue and ensure they(Both) follow the rule. 

If it is not above, its not call moderation. Its something else under the cloak  of the term Moderator. 

Just, as an fyi. You all head this when you were young. DTA. (Don't Trust Anyone) or Watchout for strangers. Internet is a strange lace, assumed identities what a business is or a person is maybe different so use caution. Do what is necessary, Verify with accredited sources. Or you are responsible.  

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2 hours ago, BlueInk said:

Were the scholars not the ones most harshly criticized for their cowardice and sloth before Karbala? 

were the scholars not the ones who come up with biggest proof that here does not exist 1 god. 

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Posted (edited)

i totally agree with what @Syed.Dynasty is saying.

lots shias are like flocks sheep following the western media. as if our beloved prophet and his ahlalbayt didnt warn us to stay away from the plans and ideas of kaffirs and to not imitate them.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, BlueInk said:

So far, it looks like the gatekeepers of SC only care to weigh in on threads about Muta, Masturbation, and pushing down anyone who dares to disagree with them.

The reason for those threads is because both families and communities have failed on that matter.

This is shaytan greater tool to control the slaves, by opening doors of haram and closing the doors of halal.

Men are sex driven and if they can't control that energy they might end up in some trouble, that's why islam encourages early marriages. And that's also why we see these threads.

Usually people with low libido or married or commiting haram acts secretly finds these topics irrelevant. NOTE, I am not accusing you to be one of the 3.
Just saying that the youth of today are struggling with these issues and that's why we see these threads, they are constantly being brainwashed into thinking about innapropriate matters everywhere they turn, unless they chose to isolate themselves.

So the questions is, how can one consider more important subjects when the mind is constantly being occupied by vile thoughts?

The only advice I can give is to lower the gaze and be patient until married.

Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts. (24:30)

"Whenever the eye looks at something forbidden, a knot of desire is tied in the person's heart, and that knot will only be untied by one of two conditions: either by weeping out of grief and regret in true repentance, or by taking possession of what one desired and looked at. And if a person takes possession unjustly, without repentance, then that will take him to the Fire." From a book lantern of the path, free on al-islam.org

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45 minutes ago, lissenma said:

So the questions is, how can one consider more important subjects when the mind is constantly being occupied by vile thoughts?

Precisely. Healthy young men that are unmarried and therefore frustrated and suppressed are unable to focus on much else besides these things.

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15 hours ago, Syed.Dynasty said:

Many people here on SC accept the official narrative of the main stream on life. They agree with the governments and media. As long as a marja says something, it’s not even questioned regardless of what our intellect says.

We have a small minority of brothers and sisters who question the mainstream reports and seek alternative views to broaden their scope of understanding. When alternative views are presented it’s labeled as disinformation or its automatically discarded when someone calls it a conspiracy. Conspiracy literally means a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful. As a Shia how can the word conspiracy alone make you think it’s nonsense when we all know about Saqifa. They get bashed and ridiculed by other members, even moderators.
 

How can we not even question the main stream view when “main stream islam” has been lying about the Shia for centuries. How can we attack our fellow Shia for having alternative views when alternative views are why Shia Islam has grown so much. Lots of people leave Shia chat because of this, some just stay quiet. I ask all those who are staying quiet to come forward and discuss how we can unite under the banner of preparing for our beloved Imam Al Mahdi. Lets share main stream and alternative views while we discuss ways to really and thoroughly research all matters with an encompassing view.

Will Shia chat ever have a mod who doesn’t just accept the mainstream? Both sides of each argument must always be looked at carefully. 
 

In his letter to Malik al Ishtar, Imam Ali says

Then choose to judge among men him who in your sight is the most excellent of subjects, i.e., one who is not beleaguered by (complex) affairs, who is not rendered ill-tempered by the litigants, who does not persist in error, who is not distressed by returning to the truth when he recognizes it, whose soul does not descend to any kind of greed, who is not satisfied with an inferior understanding (of a thing) short of the more thorough, who hesitates most in (acting in the face of) obscurities, who adheres most to arguments, who is the least to become annoyed at the petition of the litigants, who is the most patient (in waiting) for the facts to become clear...”

If moderators are allowed to judge the information and remove post this criteria should be followed.

 

 

6 hours ago, BlueInk said:

So far, it looks like the gatekeepers of SC only care to weigh in on threads about Muta, Masturbation, and pushing down anyone who dares to disagree with them.

all of you who are quiet: what will you tell Allah on Judgement Day? Simply following the religion of your forefathers was not accepted of the previous generations. 
 

are you happy being a slave to one who does not care about you? You’re going to trust clueless “scholars”? 
 

Were the scholars not the ones most harshly criticized for their cowardice and sloth before Karbala? 

Salaam brothers,

I have a one-line answer to all your grief.

We live in end times.

I hope you get that.

I have a personal idea about the zuhoor of Imam al Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). I try to summarise and conclude all the hadith related to signs.

And my conclusion is that :

"A divinely appointed leader is the one who guides humanity so that they become capable enough to handle there own affairs and don't deviate. So, Imam al Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) went into Ghayba because the works and mission of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) was quite successful in bringing up the general human thought to a level that they can take all affairs in there own hands with a slight backing and assistance.

And this can also be a reason behind the reappearance. When everything will go out of control of the hands of believers and human beings, Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will come."

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19 minutes ago, Uni Student said:

Is it possible that the end times could be a period of scientific advancement and high living standards, but with extreme moral decline?

Not only moral decline. Deaths, hunger, starvation, pandrmics etc etc etc.

There is so much poverty and so much pain. Our lives are good and even in 1700s the people of our status were even better than us. But the world is in it's worst situation right now. 

It is not visible because the media doesn't wants us to know about it. The prestitutes are quite cozy with the billionares who have a comfortable life obviously. 

The richy rich countries are just glittering from outside. You know, the entire Europe is nothing but a colony of elites. You know half of Asia is poor and miserable and many many secrets are hidden. The most dangerous mystery lies behind 2 regions which appear to be quite shiny but I don't think they are. 

China and Australia (the continent including New Zealand).

Africa is in a bad state and relies on murderers and usurpers aka Billionares.

What is left? South America?

Colonised (most of it).

World is empty brother. The more you see it full from outside, the more it is empty from inside.

All these gulf states with an exception of Iran are puppets of America and they are crooked dictators who don't let people speak about anything. These countries are filled with extreme censorship and they are only Muslim from outside but the most anti-muslim from inside. Moving a bit west we see nothing but misery in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine etc.

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2 hours ago, lissenma said:

The reason for those threads is because both families and communities have failed on that matter.

This is shaytan greater tool to control the slaves, by opening doors of haram and closing the doors of halal.

Men are sex driven and if they can't control that energy they might end up in some trouble, that's why islam encourages early marriages. And that's also why we see these threads.

Usually people with low libido or married or commiting haram acts secretly finds these topics irrelevant. NOTE, I am not accusing you to be one of the 3.
Just saying that the youth of today are struggling with these issues and that's why we see these threads, they are constantly being brainwashed into thinking about innapropriate matters everywhere they turn, unless they chose to isolate themselves.

So the questions is, how can one consider more important subjects when the mind is constantly being occupied by vile thoughts?

The only advice I can give is to lower the gaze and be patient until married.

Agreed bro but this is very basic. This is halal and haram. All things all abrahamic religions must abide by not just the Shia of Ali. We are not them, we are blessed to be the Shia. If we can’t dig in our heels and get past all of that how can we be sure we’ll even know when the return is happening.

 

1 hour ago, Zainuu said:

 

Salaam brothers,

I have a one-line answer to all your grief.

We live in end times.

I hope you get that.

I have a personal idea about the zuhoor of Imam al Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). I try to summarise and conclude all the hadith related to signs.

And my conclusion is that :

"A divinely appointed leader is the one who guides humanity so that they become capable enough to handle there own affairs and don't deviate. So, Imam al Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) went into Ghayba because the works and mission of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) was quite successful in bringing up the general human thought to a level that they can take all affairs in there own hands with a slight backing and assistance.

And this can also be a reason behind the reappearance. When everything will go out of control of the hands of believers and human beings, Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) will come."

I agree but the Imam won’t return until we are ready. This is why the Ahlul Bayt never gave an exact date and said that knowledge is with Allah. There’s a tradition mentioning a companion of Imam Jaffar as Sadiq approached him one day and said that we have so many Shia now why don’t we rise up and take the caliph? The Imam said if you are my Shia then sit in this fire, that was being prepared to cook something, to which of course the man didn’t. Just then another companion arrived and Imam told him to sit in the fire and he did so and was not burned or harmed at all. Imam turned back to the man and said we do not rise unless we have at least 40 companions as such. So I feel like we can’t just wait for everything to crumble and hope he’ll return he needs us to perfect our faith.

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As long as a marja says something, it’s not even questioned regardless of what our intellect says.

This is basic info and worth repeating. We do Not follow a Jurist in Fundamental of Faith. Belief in God/Messenger/Imamate.. if these were Trick questions, God will only question the scientists and philosophers. Religion is for ALL mankind. Simple proofs have been provided which an average intellect can grasp. It looks very hard due to psy warfare to confuse people and make it more complicated than it is. 

However, Law is different so we need to refer to the SME's ( Subject Matter Experts) . Like the secular institutions of High/supreme court not every one is versed in the constitution and legality of the issues.  To question, a legal opinion of the High/Supreme court a person needs to have proper qualifications. We lay people are not equipped to do so for complicated cases. 

Intellect bases its decision on known variables XYZ if Q is the unknown variable. Our decision is only valid based on XYX, meaning we Think we know, but in reality we are ignorant of Q. Which could change the outcome. 

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It is necessary for a Muslim to believe in the fundamentals of faith on the basis of proof and he cannot follow anyone in this respect i.e. he cannot accept he word of another with regard to the fundamentals without demanding proof.

However, in order to act on Islamic code (except in those matters which are considered by all to be indisputable e.g. the obligatory nature of the five daily prayers, fasting during the holy month of Ramadan etc.) a person must adopt one of the following methods:...

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/taqlid

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2 hours ago, Zainuu said:

 

I have a one-line answer to all your grief.

We live in end times.

I don't really agree with this mindset. It's become a habit among people to passively attribute any and every challenge to 'the end of times' which for all we know could be 500 years away. 

I think each challenge has to be identified, acknowledged and countered. Grieving over it as some do, or merely attributing it to the end of time like others do, will not bring about a solution. 

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5 hours ago, F.M said:

i totally agree with what @Syed.Dynasty is saying.

lots shias are like flocks sheep following the western media. as if our beloved prophet and his ahlalbayt didnt warn us to stay away from the plans and ideas of kaffirs and to not imitate them.

Lets not forget either that when Imam comes he’ll kill thousand of Syeds first. Hadith state that we should beware the scholars of the end times. Hadith also mention the goodness of the scholars of the end times. So we must have a 360 degree view about all issues and examine each side carefully. Shiachat is a website which many ppl use, so when the moderators are anything but moderate it becomes an echo chamber instead of a place where we can discuss things freely and openly and come to a logical verdict.

 

52 minutes ago, Uni Student said:

Often when I read texts about what the world will be like before Imam Mahdi arrives, it seems like the entire world will be full of death and destruction and misery. But most of our lives are too good right now, at least outwardly. In the past 200 years the world has improved on so many metrics like infant mortality, death from war and poverty and disease, etc. The people living in the 1700s had more miserable lives than we do, more reason to believe they lived in the end times. 

Is it possible that the end times could be a period of scientific advancement and high living standards, but with extreme moral decline?

I feel like we think this is a time of technological advancement but its possible ancient civilisations had much more advanced technology then we did that didn’t destroy the environment. It said Imam will return with a different technology. Perhaps this could be similar. definitely the standards of life have been increased for sure but the intellect is being destroyed. Everyone is just a sheep now. Before the ruling class used to be terrified of upsetting the masses, as they know the ppl hold the power. Now they openly talk about wanting to have 90% less ppl on earth openly and freely with no fear. Now they just do as they will.

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13 minutes ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

This is basic info and worth repeating. We do Not follow a Jurist in Fundamental of Faith. Belief in God/Messenger/Imamate.. if these were Trick questions, God will only question the scientists and philosophers. Religion is for ALL mankind. Simple proofs have been provided which an average intellect can grasp. It looks very hard due to psy warfare to confuse people and make it more complicated than it is. 

However, Law is different so we need to refer to the SME's ( Subject Matter Experts) . Like the secular institutions of High/supreme court not every one is versed in the constitution and legality of the issues.  To question, a legal opinion of the High/Supreme court a person needs to have proper qualifications. We lay people are not equipped to do so for complicated cases. 

Intellect bases its decision on known variables XYZ if Q is the unknown variable. Our decision is only valid based on XYX, meaning we Think we know, but in reality we are ignorant of Q. Which could change the outcome. 

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/taqlid

Of course but which of these marjas are experts in vaccines. When a friend of mine emailed and asked certain ayatollahs and scholars about the vaccines being made of aborted fetal cells, they had no idea that was even the case. Even the doctors themselves are split on this matter of covid vaccine safety.

Thats why I mention we shouldn’t have moderators censoring something they don’t agree with, so we can have a full view of everything. Then and only then can we can predict the unknown variables and prepare accordingly. We shouldn’t be content with being lay people on matters that can effect us and our children for generations to come. We need a real discussion with all facts on the table and moderators being actually moderate and not letting their feelings get the better of them.

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45 minutes ago, Zainuu said:

All these gulf states with an exception of Iran are puppets of America

:salam:

For correction , It's " Persian Gulf " not just " Gulf ":einstein:

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26 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I don't really agree with this mindset. It's become a habit among people to passively attribute any and every challenge to 'the end of times' which for all we know could be 500 years away. 

I think each challenge has to be identified, acknowledged and countered. Grieving over it as some do, or merely attributing it to the end of time like others do, will not bring about a solution. 

Perhaps reflect on this verse which is also in dua ahad 

“Surely they think it to be far off, and we see it near”

70:6

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Syed.Dynasty said:

Of course but which of these marjas are experts in vaccines. When a friend of mine emailed and asked certain ayatollahs and scholars about the vaccines being made of aborted fetal cells, they had no idea that was even the case.

Ayatullah Sistani gave me an answer to this four years ago. I have posted his reply on SC more than once. How can you say they aren't even aware?

These claims of yours are getting tiresome especially because you don't have any solid evidence of proof to back them up with. 

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3 minutes ago, realizm said:

:salam:

@Syed.Dynasty, @BlueInk

Many Muslims are complexed brothers, that's all. Their clocks are set on Washington, London or Berlin. They do not care about what time it is in their own country. 

 

This is the sad reality, but they pray for the return of HujjatAllah. How quick would they turn on their heels on the battlefield? Would they even make it to the battlefield? Would they be against us on the battlefield? Or would they be in their homes. Imam Hussain’s voice could be heard by the ppl of kufa asking for help, and how many came to save the family of our Rasool?

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2 minutes ago, starlight said:

Ayatullah Sistani gave me an answer to this four years ago. I have posted his reply on SC more than once. How can you say they aren't even aware?

These claims of yours are getting tiresome especially because you don't have any solid evidence of proof to back them up with. 

What are you on about. I’ve just gotten back to SC so I havnt seen them. If ya took the time to read through the “what would imam do thread” you’d see there are many doctors who don’t trust this rushed vaccine treatment. And there’s a interviews posted by others that talk about this in detail. I’ve also posted a interview by the CBC talking about another medication that’s treated five thousand cases that actually combats variants of covid unlike this vaccine that all the mods seem to be pushing. Like what scientific do you want? Do you need your future generations to have four arms to call the scientific proof?

ive posted lots of quotes from doctors yet you say I havnt shown any proof? And your sayin my claims are getting tiresome lol how are one sided ppl lik you supposed to moderate?

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1 minute ago, Syed.Dynasty said:

you’d see there are many doctors who don’t trust this rushed vaccine treatment

I am a doctor had I don't trust this vaccine. The reason is it hasn't been through enough trials, there just wasn't time. I have not seen anyone on good authority saying this vaccine is a cure all. Everyone is saying these are trials. 

About the rest of the claims you are making, I can post equal amount of stories, anecdotes and scientific evidence in support of vaccines. The pro vax and antivaxxer argument is as old as the hills now. I simply fail to understand the convulated connection you are trying to make between vaccines and return of Imam Zamana(عليه السلام). 

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And btw no one is hiding the fact that COVID vaccine is live attenuated virus(one form) The vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox  and polio are also live attenuated viruses. These diseases have been eradicated for the most part and I have yet to see anyone walking around with four arms. 

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

I am a doctor had I don't trust this vaccine. The reason is it hasn't been through enough trials, there just wasn't time. I have not seen anyone on good authority saying this vaccine is a cure all. Everyone is saying these are trials. 

About the rest of the claims you are making, I can post equal amount of stories, anecdotes and scientific evidence in support of vaccines. The pro vax and antivaxxer argument is as old as the hills now. I simply fail to understand the convulated connection you are trying to make between vaccines and return of Imam Zamana(عليه السلام). 

You have a PhD? Or what do you specialise in? The CBC interview I linked in the other thread mentions another cure that actually combats variants and if you go through maybe the last four pages you’ll find other doctors mentioning other treatments with solid rates of success. The points made by pro vaccers and anti vaccers are reason enough why we should have an open minded debate on this. As opposed to blindly throwing our support behind the side of the elites.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, starlight said:

And btw no one is hiding the fact that COVID vaccine is live attenuated virus(one form) The vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox  and polio are also live attenuated viruses. These diseases have been eradicated for the most part and I have yet to see anyone walking around with four arms. 

Four arms was a joke but hol dis fam

Local media reported on the weekend that police arrested the managing director of the northern India-based Bio-Med Pvt Ltd, after routine testing revealed it had made and shipped some 150,000 lots of oral polio vaccines that contained the type 2 polio vaccine virus.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1MB3H1 
 

There are still problems with the polio vaccine, intentional or Na? You mods just ignoring one side of the argument is growing tiresome. Will there ever be a mod who actually takes a moderate stance?

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Posted (edited)

Sayyed Mohammad Al-Musawi, Sayyed Mohammad al-Musawi is originally from Iraq and heads up the World Ahlul Bayt Islamic League in London. Other than being involved in various humanitarian projects, he frequently responds to...

Answered 1 year ago

Please explain what do you mean by WI-38, WI-26 , MRC-5 ?

Do you have concrete evidence that killing of babies is the only way to make these vaccines?

 

Says to get the vaccs but doesn’t know how they are created. Oof

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Just now, starlight said:

Mods are allowed to have their opinion. In the past week you have posted on several threads without any censorship. Why are you constantly complaining about the moderators?? 

I still fail to the see the connection you are making between Imam Zamana (عليه السلام) and vaccines. 

Probably because you didn’t read the thread you havnt noticed the correlation. Sis if you read what I’m saying you’ll know why I’m complaining. Why are the mods all one sided and why do some (no names mentioned) talk down to some for having opposing beliefs. They label alternative views as conspiracy, when without alternative views Shia Islam would’ve been absorbed into the main fray.

If your a doctor do you have any financial interests in the vaccines? I have no bias other than wanting to be near Allah and my Imam. The more one studies this the more apparent there is that something larger is at play here. Our scholars accept that sunlight makes things tahir, bill gates is trying to cut down on the sunlight reaching the earth, while making money of this vaccine. Coincidence?

Allah has gave us sunlight that combats pathogens so does duas, good food, exercise VB and VC.  most of all he’s given us the miracle of an advanced immune system as front line and back line defence against anything but the pharmaceutical industry doesnt like that as it’s not good for business.

 

Anyways I’ll ask the last threads original question to you. Would the Imam of our Time take this untested vaccine? Would he adhere to mandates set up by the WHO? Would he ban congregational prayers?

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15 minutes ago, Uni Student said:

If there was a public health crisis that had killed millions globally, yes he would.

REALLY?
Who declares this public health crisis, not the US,UK,EU? The same governments that are against him? Why is covid patented, when something that’s naturally occurring cannot be patented? You honestly believe that? when there are other remedies available that actually combat variants. The covid vaccs do not combat variants but other treatments do. Those are just sitting on the shelf. This is what is expected of the pharma industry, as we know there’s no money in real cures.
 
You arnt a deputy of the Imam, neither is anyone here. There are Hadith that mention ppl will try to ban the congregation of the believers. I personally don’t believe the Imam would want us to be an experiment for the elite. What are the capabilities of the messenger RNA. Bro @BlueInk posted a vid on the last thread about intelligence agencies using mRNA to alter memories and DNA. You honestly the government that much? Do you also believe in all the new genders they’ve introduced into the schooling system?

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59 minutes ago, Syed.Dynasty said:

Of course but which of these marjas are experts in vaccines.

I don't think the High/Supreme court is staked with Economist, Top tier with tons of experience in Business, Sociologists , Military Experts, or Election Experts or Financial experts etc. Not their job . It is to rule on the legality of the matter and they do consult SME's in particular fields. You get my drift. 

A forensic expert or  a psychologists give expert testimony in a case if their expertise is required- Judge is not a forensic science expert 

Nor is the President of a Company or Country an expert lawyer, Operations Guru, Salesman, Marketing, Audit, They have Expert advisors. 

In general. If the matter is new, and the SME's in that field are divided - you can be assured No one will rush to rule on the legality of an issue. Unless they have made choice based on what is available and the time does not allow for full investigation and if the matter is very urgent and life threatening to allow or not allow - this will be their call as leaders.  Again their opinion is not binding in a way that you have to - If you choose to ignore the opinion The " Jurists" can't legally enforce it -their Domain is Global however, Opinion Not enforceable. Unless it is the  government of Jurist,  with his allowed Jurisdiction/Domain. Like the government can mandate all citizens to take the medicine or they will not be allowed to do certain things - even airlines can mandate it to allow access. 

Look into if these things went through a regular cycle of drug development , testing and approval. Or these are given blanket immunity to get something available  and no fault protection have been provided. This will be a matter of caution but if the life is threatened you make the right choice.  

 

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

I don't really agree with this mindset. It's become a habit among people to passively attribute any and every challenge to 'the end of times' which for all we know could be 500 years away. 

I think each challenge has to be identified, acknowledged and countered. Grieving over it as some do, or merely attributing it to the end of time like others do, will not bring about a solution. 

Yes. True.

This is not grief. This is simply truth. Truth is bitter.

I am not saying that we should just surrender because we are in the end times. 

I am answering the grief of the OP when he says, "What the hell is wrong?"

So, the answer is simple. We qre living in the end times.

Even if you say that the reappearance is 500 years ahead. It doesn't mean that these are not the end times. Last period before reappearance might be a 1000 years long. No one actually specified the real time.

1 hour ago, Syed.Dynasty said:

agree but the Imam won’t return until we are ready. This is why the Ahlul Bayt never gave an exact date and said that knowledge is with Allah. There’s a tradition mentioning a companion of Imam Jaffar as Sadiq approached him one day and said that we have so many Shia now why don’t we rise up and take the caliph? The Imam said if you are my Shia then sit in this fire, that was being prepared to cook something, to which of course the man didn’t. Just then another companion arrived and Imam told him to sit in the fire and he did so and was not burned or harmed at all. Imam turned back to the man and said we do not rise unless we have at least 40 companions as such. So I feel like we can’t just wait for everything to crumble and hope he’ll return he needs us to perfect our faith.

Absolutely. So, based on this hadith you shared.

Readiness means when nothing will suffice our affairs except reappearance of Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). The time when the ones who are less in faith will loose hope and the ones who are top on faith will pray for reappearance as if this is there only chance. And I mean literally. Many people today make such claims but they forget afterwards.

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19 hours ago, Syed.Dynasty said:

As long as a marja says something, it’s not even questioned regardless of what our intellect says.

A crucial point. But I don't know why people refer to a Marjaa regarding such a complex medical issue. And that too in the most high-level language possible.

Example,

Should we take vaccine created from haraam things?

What should one expect as an answer. Every islamic jurisprudent would say to take it because it is about life. 

Now, if the question contains all what you said along with sources etc. I mean if it comes to there knowledge that vaccines are maybe good for nothing and in fact they might make conditions worse then they will definitely prohibit.

They are dealing with a different science and a different field.

The question asked before to Sayyid al Sistani (رضي الله عنه) was that :

The parent advice from all marja still remains the same. Follow the advices of doctors.

Only Ayatullah Khamenei gave an order and that too for Iranians to not take the vaccine and he officially prohibited a western vaccine import. The reason was that previously a French vaccine supplied to Iran caused a lot of trouble over there.

 

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1 hour ago, Syed.Dynasty said:

If your a doctor do you have any financial interests in the vaccines?

None. 

 

1 hour ago, Syed.Dynasty said:

Would the Imam of our Time take this untested vaccine? Would he adhere to mandates set up by the WHO? Would he ban congregational prayers?

Would our Imam(عليه السلام) use the internet? Would he ride on aeroplanes? Would Imam(عليه السلام) allow Arbaeen walk?? 

I have never taken the flu vaccine. Does that automatically make me someone of a stronger faith than those who have? Do I now have more chances of being amongst the 313 because I haven't taken the flu vaccine? 

Okay, so Bill Gates is involved in a conspiracy to cut down sunlight and sell drugs to people, so what does it have to do with one's Imaan? 

 Pharmaceutical industry making billions out of injudicious drug use is nothing new. Everyone in the industry knows about it. I have read your other threads bit I still fail to see any correlation between COVID vaccine and Imam Zamana(عليه السلام). Exactly what genetic changes are you expecting as a result of vaccines which can cause us to sway from the right path?? 

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Posted (edited)

Salam,

I believe taking the vaccine for Covid19 is personal issue eventhough almost everyone is affected.  There are so many unclear issues behind Covid19 and the vaccines.

Since, i believe that everyone has access to Imam of our time and he is the Ulil-Amr, make sincere initiatives to seek his advise for our individual sake.  Take or not to take the vaccine.  Our Imam (عليه السلام) will tell us on the effective (the individual not for others) method to avoid Covid19 specific to us.

In other words, the crisis will make us closer to our Imam.

It doesn't mean we ignore scientific findings or insidious efforts by enemies of humanity.

Wallahualam.  V

Edited by layman
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