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In the Name of God بسم الله

[Mature topic] An Alarming Trend

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16 minutes ago, F.M said:

in all seriousness are marrying animals

Except that's you lying.

 

16 minutes ago, F.M said:

pedophilia is starting to be normalized,

No it's not.

 

17 minutes ago, F.M said:

rape everywhere

Rape always existed, and it's universally accepted as wrong.

 

17 minutes ago, F.M said:

naked people are walking trough streets everywhere,

That's not true.

 

21 minutes ago, F.M said:

killing people is seen as good thing

That's a straight up lie.

 

21 minutes ago, F.M said:

guys, i am fed up with this world, better imam al mahdi is coming soon because its not getting better at all.

Well, you should probably look at what the world is actually like, instead of the lies in your post.

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11 minutes ago, gayboyanon said:

Except that's you lying.

 

No it's not.

 

Rape always existed, and it's universally accepted as wrong.

 

That's not true.

 

That's a straight up lie.

 

Well, you should probably look at what the world is actually like, instead of the lies in your post.

Stop accusing this sister of lying! Are you gay? 

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On 4/17/2021 at 3:50 PM, gayboyanon said:

You can debate whether or not it's right or wrong, but look at the definition of genocide:

"the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."

Allah killed the entire nation of Lut. Now, like I said, you can say that it was right, but it's still genocide, and if not genocide, it's still murder of a large number of people. I mean, what would we call the story of Prophet Nuh where the whole planet got flooded? It would be blasphemous if I said it made Allah an evil god. I don't say that.

It’s deliberately using loaded language no? People die of earthquakes, floods and diseases every day. It would be quite blasphemous for us to say that God “murders” people every day (nauzubillah) when obviously taking life is His right for He owns our very souls.

On 4/17/2021 at 3:50 PM, gayboyanon said:

I don't believe that the story of Lut happened as we've been lead to believe because it doesn't match with what we've been told about Allah. What I'm saying isn't blasphemy, it's a different interpretation.

This is superimposing postmodernist and liberal biases on tradition and it is against direct Qur’anic and Hadith evidence. 

We must take heed to the warning of this ayah:

Quote

Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god, and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful? (45:23)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, gayboyanon said:

Except that's you lying

How about zoophillia?? 

1 hour ago, gayboyanon said:

No it's not.

Elijah Wood Says Hollywood Has a Pedophilia Problem

“Clearly something major was going on in Hollywood. It was all organized. There are a lot of vipers in this industry, people who only have their own interests in mind,” he said. “There is darkness in the underbelly. What bums me about these situations

“If you’re innocent, you have very little knowledge of the world and you want to succeed,” he went on. “People with parasitic interests will see you as their prey. What upsets me about these situations is that the victims can’t speak as loudly as the people in power.”
....

Also Are we slightly forgetting the jefrey epstein scandal??

1 hour ago, gayboyanon said:

Rape always existed, and it's universally accepted as wrong.

Same  story as jefrey epstein scandal.

1 hour ago, gayboyanon said:

That's not true.

Definetally yes, how about kardashians, other celebrities, movies, commercials, people on beaches in their bikinis,etc....

1 hour ago, gayboyanon said:

That's a straight up lie.

in some parts of the world they walk freely with guns.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2017-2021

Published by Statista Research Department, Mar 31, 2021
 Sadly, the trend of fatal police shootings in the United States seems to only be increasing, with a total 213 civilians having been shot, 30 of whom were Black, in the first three months of 2021. In 2020, there were 1,021 fatal police shootings, and in 2019 there were 999 fatal shootings. Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 35 fatal shootings per million of the population as of March 2021. 

Police brutality in the U.S. 

In recent years, particularly since the fatal shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri in 2014, police brutality has become a hot button issue in the United States. The number of homicides committed by police in the United States is often compared to those in countries such as England, where the number is significantly lower.
 
there are many more examples.
 
Edited by F.M
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1 hour ago, gayboyanon said:

Well, you should probably look at what the world is actually like, instead of the lies in your post.

The question arrives, in what world  do you live in??? Where do you see peace? Where do you see justice? Were do you see goodness? we are in a time where these people are adopting the behaviour of Pre-Noah timezone or even the people of prophet Lot (عليه السلام). 

either you are integrated in this nasty world (and see already everything as normal)or you are from a whole different planet and secretally a alien. Because the world is not getting better at all.

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37 minutes ago, Uni Student said:

personal attacks aren't really helpful when debating

Is it? If someone has gay in their user name and seems to be polarized in a discussion on gays, is it insulting to ask if they are gay? 

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45 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Is it? If someone has gay in their user name and seems to be polarized in a discussion on gays, is it insulting to ask if they are gay? 

it's not a question of insulting i just feel it doesn't add much to the debate

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Just now, Uni Student said:

it's not a question of insulting i just feel it doesn't add much to the debate

Why not? If someone is gay or straight in a debate about homosexuality, is like asking if someone is a believer in God when discussing God related issues, or? Puts things into perspective don't you think? It might show why he seems so offended by the sisters post, and he accuses her of lying. Lying is kind of a big deal. 

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On 4/14/2021 at 10:31 PM, Muhammed Ali said:

Many muslim children did not get into zina, drugs, alcohol, atheism etc and these were in the culture before the LGBT phenomenon. Educate the children. Parents need to take more responsibility in learning for their own sake and also for the sake of their children.

:salam:

Except that these were quite frowned upon, while the LGBT stuff is widely promoted. We should not fall into paranoia that our kids all become LGBT, but we should be worried that they soon accept that perversion as something 'normal', which is something serious IMO. 

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3 hours ago, F.M said:

How about zoophillia?? 

Elijah Wood Says Hollywood Has a Pedophilia Problem

“Clearly something major was going on in Hollywood. It was all organized. There are a lot of vipers in this industry, people who only have their own interests in mind,” he said. “There is darkness in the underbelly. What bums me about these situations

“If you’re innocent, you have very little knowledge of the world and you want to succeed,” he went on. “People with parasitic interests will see you as their prey. What upsets me about these situations is that the victims can’t speak as loudly as the people in power.”
....

Also Are we slightly forgetting the jefrey epstein scandal??

Same  story as jefrey epstein scandal.

Definetally yes, how about kardashians, other celebrities, movies, commercials, people on beaches in their bikinis,etc....

in some parts of the world they walk freely with guns.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2017-2021

Published by Statista Research Department, Mar 31, 2021
 Sadly, the trend of fatal police shootings in the United States seems to only be increasing, with a total 213 civilians having been shot, 30 of whom were Black, in the first three months of 2021. In 2020, there were 1,021 fatal police shootings, and in 2019 there were 999 fatal shootings. Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 35 fatal shootings per million of the population as of March 2021. 

Police brutality in the U.S. 

In recent years, particularly since the fatal shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri in 2014, police brutality has become a hot button issue in the United States. The number of homicides committed by police in the United States is often compared to those in countries such as England, where the number is significantly lower.
 
there are many more examples.
 

None of that stuff is widely accepted. And, it's the liberals that fight against this sort of stuff.

 

Also, apparently my post got warned because I used inappropriate language? I'm assuming that was using the word "lie". But I do apologise for saying you lied FM. Though I believe you are mistaken and are saying it's normalised as if it's accepted, I don't think you were lying. But people don't accept the stuff you're talking about. Let alone the liberals, and it's the liberals who are fighting against police brutality. As are you. You're saying that liberals have opposing values to you, but for the most part that's not true.

3 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

This is superimposing postmodernist and liberal biases on tradition and it is against direct Qur’anic and Hadith evidence. 

Lut asked Allah to kill the people of Sodom because they didn't listen to him. That's the basics of the story. If the story as it is is to be believed, then the people of Sodom were killed mostly out of spite. That's why the story can't be the way we interpret it. Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however impossible, must be the truth. Allah wouldn't kill people just for not listening to him. In fact, as Muslims I don't believe we can accept that he would choose to kill people. If we do that, we'd have to accept that Allah chose not to kill Hitler, and chose to let World War II happen.

We know Allah is not a cruel God, therefore, what I believe we must accept is that Allah would never directly kill anyone on Earth. Otherwise, why would World War II happen? Are we saying the people of Sodom were worse than Hitler? Well, that's just patently untrue, so then the only solution is that Allah didn't kill the people of Sodom. That's the only logical conclusion.

4 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

It would be quite blasphemous for us to say that God “murders” people every day (nauzubillah) when obviously taking life is His right for He owns our very souls.

The difference here is that the story of Sodom goes that Nuh asked Allah to kill them, right? When has he ever done that before? Not to Yazid, not to Hitler. It's not how Allah does things. It doesn't match with the rest of what we're told about Allah.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, gayboyanon said:

 

We know Allah is not a cruel God, therefore, what I believe we must accept is that Allah would never directly kill anyone on Earth. Otherwise, why would World War II happen? Are we saying the people of Sodom were worse than Hitler? Well, that's just patently untrue, so then the only solution is that Allah didn't kill the people of Sodom. That's the only logical conclusion.

The difference here is that the story of Sodom goes that Nuh asked Allah to kill them, right? When has he ever done that before? Not to Yazid, not to Hitler. It's not how Allah does things. It doesn't match with the rest of what we're told about Allah.

 

Guess Firaun was never killed by Allah?

Edited by Khurasani
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On 4/17/2021 at 10:50 PM, gayboyanon said:

You mean transphobic people called trans people "it". That doesn't make it right.

 

You can debate whether or not it's right or wrong, but look at the definition of genocide:

"the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."

Allah killed the entire nation of Lut. Now, like I said, you can say that it was right, but it's still genocide, and if not genocide, it's still murder of a large number of people. I mean, what would we call the story of Prophet Nuh where the whole planet got flooded? It would be blasphemous if I said it made Allah an evil god. I don't say that. I don't believe that the story of Lut happened as we've been lead to believe because it doesn't match with what we've been told about Allah. What I'm saying isn't blasphemy, it's a different interpretation.

So Allah has commited genocide on the entire earth because we will all die one day? What is this logic

At this point it just seems to me like this world is an ideal to you because it is full of sexual degeneracy.

 

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6 hours ago, Khurasani said:

So Allah has commited genocide on the entire earth because we will all die one day?

There’s a difference between natural disasters and natural deaths and turning people to stone, or flooding the world because he didn’t like the people. Don’t pretend to not know what I mean, it’s pretty obvious how I meant it, allah rarely directly interferes.

 

6 hours ago, Khurasani said:

Guess Firaun was never killed by Allah?

So it’s a rare and extreme circumstance. Still wouldn’t explain why he killed gay people and not hitler.

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society will go more and more backwards until it will collapse then people will turn back into how they lived in the bronze age where females can be bought from their father for marriage(not saying that's a bad thing). I think the rise of lgbt is because of a hypersexual society which made marriage less attractive and people prefer to do pre marital sex. also some people who looked for a genuine relationship with a woman(as in marriage) didn't have an opportunity because most of the women decided to just have sex with different people(talking about westernised societies) and because of that they became homosexuals when in reality they are not.how do I know all this? Because I've seen how the West is. Most females by age 15 already lost their virginity and by 20 already had sex with multiple guys.

also why did I say the west(and eventually the world) will turn back in time? Because woman in the West are becoming more and more masculine with the feminist movement and men more feminine(except for those against feminism). because of that society will collapse and turn upside down from all corners. Then the masculine anti-feminism men remaining will fight back against feminist and put oppressive laws against them eventually.(females)

that's just my idea as what's happening. Not saying I want these things to happen because I wish the feminist movement never happened to begin with which in turn wouldn't make lgbt rise and cause eventual collapse of society then going back in time to a more primitive life

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Posted (edited)
On 4/18/2021 at 8:13 PM, gayboyanon said:

 

Lut asked Allah to kill the people of Sodom because they didn't listen to him. That's the basics of the story. If the story as it is is to be believed, then the people of Sodom were killed mostly out of spite. That's why the story can't be the way we interpret it. Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however impossible, must be the truth. Allah wouldn't kill people just for not listening to him. In fact, as Muslims I don't believe we can accept that he would choose to kill people. If we do that, we'd have to accept that Allah chose not to kill Hitler, and chose to let World War II happen.

We know Allah is not a cruel God, therefore, what I believe we must accept is that Allah would never directly kill anyone on Earth. Otherwise, why would World War II happen? Are we saying the people of Sodom were worse than Hitler? Well, that's just patently untrue, so then the only solution is that Allah didn't kill the people of Sodom. That's the only logical conclusion.

The difference here is that the story of Sodom goes that Nuh asked Allah to kill them, right? When has he ever done that before? Not to Yazid, not to Hitler. It's not how Allah does things. It doesn't match with the rest of what we're told about Allah.

Prophet Lut((عليه السلام)) never asked Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to destroy the people of Sodom, otherwise he wouldn't have been a Prophet. All Prophets realize that the destruction or salvation of a people or society is totally and completely a decision of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and they have no part in it. Their role is only to be as a giver of good news and a warner (bashir wa nadhir) and some of the Prophets had the role of bringing a Kitab (book from Allah) and a Sharia (Divine law) that modified the Sharia of the previous prophet(s).

Their destruction was a natural consequence of their actions. When people throw out the concept of good and evil, the real concept that exists, and try to create their own concept based on their very, very, very limited knowledge (compared to the knowledge of Allah(s.w.a)) that is where corruption begins, and where it ends is destruction. That destruction could be gradual, like what is happening in countries such as the US where things are getting more chaotic and there is more oppression and injustice day by day, or it could be sudden, like what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah. But it is inevitable. The people of Sodom did other sins, not just homosexual acts. They were highway bandits, and robbed people on the road, and they thought of this as perfectly ok, as their town was situated next to a major caravan route at the time. But the sin that they were known for, because it had never been open and widespread and accepted in any society before that, was the homosexual sex act. They were given time and chances to repent, and Prophet Lut((عليه السلام)) as well as other prophets came to them and told them that what they were doing was wrong but they ignored them. Finally, when they attacked the house of Prophet Lut((عليه السلام)), this was the 'final straw' and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) decided to make them an example for the people to come after them as to what 'not' to do. Many people didn't listen, which is why we have the society we have today. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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On 4/19/2021 at 2:07 PM, gayboyanon said:

There’s a difference between natural disasters and natural deaths and turning people to stone, or flooding the world because he didn’t like the people. Don’t pretend to not know what I mean, it’s pretty obvious how I meant it, allah rarely directly interferes.

 

So it’s a rare and extreme circumstance. Still wouldn’t explain why he killed gay people and not hitler.

Sorry for butting in again, but I just want to clarify some concepts to you that I think very few would contradict. 

Every living being has to taste death, including my friend and buddy Sayidna 3azraeel (عليه السلام), the (head) angel of death. So technically speaking God is very just in killing everyone and everything, including good and bad people. 

The crucial difference here that scares all of us is how our souls are taken. Supposedly there are agents of the angel of death, and perhaps the angel himself in some cases, who can take the soul in a peaceful and beautiful way, even asking for permission. While others who kind of attract bad treatment and deserve torture, get taken in a horrible and terrifying way. Also after they are taken there is something called the torture of the grave that is followed by the questioning of two other angels who ask you who your "God" is, and your messenger etc. Only people with the habit of answering this question on earth (example: mantra of shehada or witnessing we say every two prayer cycles) will answer it the same way automatically. For those who call out for others than God and associate to others than the prophet(s) will have a horrible time until judgment day. After judgment day it will get even worse according to Islamic texts I read. So it is not about dying or being killed, it is purely about how one is killed and what happens afterward. Being killed like the cities of Herculaneum and Pompeo, is a clear humiliation. Those cities until today were preserved by God in perfect condition, showing their worship of sexual desires via art and statues. It is a shameful and humiliating way to go. Honorable people never get killed this way en masse via "natural disaster". Quran is packed with such stories of humiliation and terror for those who disobey the natural order of God - without repenting and at least trying (public and secret) to improve towards the way of God and His messengers. 

Our deadline is literally death. If we don't repent and attempt to change before that moment, then it's too late to avoid eternal damnation, according to Islamic texts anyway, such as the Quran. 

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11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Prophet Lut((عليه السلام)) never asked Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to destroy the people of Sodom, otherwise he wouldn't have been a Prophet. All Prophets realize that the destruction or salvation of a people or society is totally and completely a decision of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and they have no part in it. Their role is only to be as a giver of good news and a warner (bashir wa nadhir) and some of the Prophets had the role of bringing a Kitab (book from Allah) and a Sharia (Divine law) that modified the Sharia of the previous prophet(s).

Their destruction was a natural consequence of their actions. When people throw out the concept of good and evil, the real concept that exists, and try to create their own concept based on their very, very, very limited knowledge (compared to the knowledge of Allah(s.w.a)) that is where corruption begins, and where it ends is destruction. That destruction could be gradual, like what is happening in countries such as the US where things are getting more chaotic and there is more oppression and injustice day by day, or it could be sudden, like what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah. But it is inevitable. The people of Sodom did other sins, not just homosexual acts. They were highway bandits, and robbed people on the road, and they thought of this as perfectly ok, as their town was situated next to a major caravan route at the time. But the sin that they were known for, because it had never been open and widespread and accepted in any society before that, was the homosexual sex act. They were given time and chances to repent, and Prophet Lut((عليه السلام)) as well as other prophets came to them and told them that what they were doing was wrong but they ignored them. Finally, when they attacked the house of Prophet Lut((عليه السلام)), this was the 'final straw' and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) decided to make them an example for the people to come after them as to what 'not' to do. Many people didn't listen, which is why we have the society we have today. 

Didn't Lut try to give the people of Sodom his daughters?

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On 4/19/2021 at 11:22 AM, Dawid Das said:

then people will turn back into how they lived in the bronze age where females can be bought from their father for marriage(not saying that's a bad thing).

Wives as property was a part of European "Christian" society, but has never been part of Islam. In fact, women being regarded as property is probably the cause of feminism. 

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2 hours ago, notme said:

Wives as property was a part of European "Christian" society, but has never been part of Islam. In fact, women being regarded as property is probably the cause of feminism. 

It was practiced in every culture around the world at the time

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6 hours ago, notme said:

Wives as property was a part of European "Christian" society, but has never been part of Islam. In fact, women being regarded as property is probably the cause of feminism. 

Weren't female slaves regarded as property in Islam? 

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4 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Weren't female slaves regarded as property in Islam? 

Male and female slaves were the responsibility of the master and under the authority of the master, but property might be too extreme a term. The master was prohibited from harming the slave and was encouraged to treat them as a member of the family. Islamic slavery is not very similar to the industrialized slavery that was practiced in "the west". 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/21/2021 at 4:36 AM, Guest Guest said:

Weren't female slaves regarded as property in Islam? 

In Islam, female slaves are not 'property', but they are women who have a 'wakil', meaning someone who is charged to take care of them. In return for taking care of them, the women (or man) is required to do some work, whatever they can do, in order to help their wakil who is supporting them. This work should not be too strenuous or beyond their abilities. In Islam, the role of the wakil is to give the women the tools to survive on her own, i.e. teaching her skills, finding her a husband, etc. Once she can survive on her own, it is highly encouraged to give her her freedom or marry her, as many of our Imams((عليه السلام)) did. This is Islam. 

Now because Islam doesn't exist in a vacuum, i.e. it is practiced by people who have a certain culture, certain habits, beliefs, etc, that are not part of Islam, the way slavery was practiced, in most cases, was much different. People who claimed to be muslim were involved in the trans african slave trade that kidnapped men, women, and children from Africa and forced them to work, sometimes to death, under horrible conditions. This was the European / American slave trade, but those who claimed to be muslim were involved in it. This was not part of Islam, though. That is why slavery has been outlawed in almost every country in the world, because over time, most people realized that if you have a system with rules, like you have in Islam, but the vast majority of people don't follow the rules, then the system doesn't work. No matter how good of a system of rules you have, if people disregard them, the system will fail. The trans African slave trade was one of the worst tragedies that ever happened in human history, because the people involved in it were only after money, and didn't take the role of 'wakil' seriously. Since many of the people involved were non muslim, they didn't even have this concept, so it was only about commerce. 

BTW, there are still countries in the Gulf, Hijaz, and other places where Muslims live that people are taken as slaves (including women and children) and the 'masters' use the Quran and Islam to justify their behavior. These people are criminals who are using the name of Islam to justify their behavior, similar to what groups like Daish do when they commit acts of terrorism and claim that their actions are part of Islam. 

The reason why is because, now, in modern times, there is no reason for someone to have a slave. The rules for employee / employer relationships are now very well developed and understood. So if someone needs some work done, they need to hire a company or person to do the work and have a written contract with them defining what work needs to be done and the compensation they will receive for it. This concept of employee / employer was not well known or understood at the time of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) or the Imams((عليه السلام)) and there was no 'labor market' as we understand it today. . Slavery was the only model for this that existed at the time. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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