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In the Name of God بسم الله

Are qadiani considered Muslims to shias ?

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:salam:

Historically, most probably a trend created and/or sponsored by the British, therefore very dubious. India's equivalent to Iran's Baha'i. 

Nowadays though, I do not seem to see them as active or suspect as the Baha'i. They do not have HQ's in Zionist Israel, although they do have some in the UK. Yet they just feel like some ethnical Muslim group with their own idea of the Mahdi - which we consider false - who do not proselytise much, and are actually oppressed in their home Pakistan. I would at some extent say they 'play that card' to get well treated in Western societies, but I am unaware whether they have some agenda, at least it feels not that pushy. 

 

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5 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Historically, most probably a trend created and/or sponsored by the British, therefore very dubious. India's equivalent to Iran's Baha'i. 

Nowadays though, I do not seem to see them as active or suspect as the Baha'i. They do not have HQ's in Zionist Israel, although they do have some in the UK. Yet they just feel like some ethnical Muslim group with their own idea of the Mahdi - which we consider false - who do not proselytise much, and are actually oppressed in their home Pakistan. I would at some extent say they 'play that card' to get well treated in Western societies, but I am unaware whether they have some agenda, at least it feels not that pushy. 

 

They regard Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani as a prophet after Rasoolallah (S). They are murtadeen and outside the fold of Islam.

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2 hours ago, realizm said:

@AbdusSibtayn

Not all consider him a prophet, I think the Lahore Movement don't. 

They do. And especially their Lahore centre (markaz). In fact, it was the movement to declare them apostates in Pakistan itself that created all the worldwide hue and cry during the 70s.

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9 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

They do. And especially their Lahore centre (markaz). In fact, it was the movement to declare them apostates in Pakistan itself that created all the worldwide hue and cry during the 70s.

That's not true. Read about it. 

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23 hours ago, Dawid Das said:

Am just curious to know because I have an ahmadi friend and he considers everyone Muslim regardless what sect of islam since they all follow Quran. So what do you guys think? 

Bro, Its not about person. Its about Islam. Does Islam considers Ahmadi a Muslim? 

Answer: No

Why?

Because it is known from Islamic Religious History and Tradition that No Prophet is to come after Prophet Muhammad (SAAWW) and institution of Prophet-hood is closed and what is to Succeed Prophetic institution is Khilafah of Twelve Caliphs as is mentioned in Quran, Hadith and as acknowledged by all companions. So, if Mr: Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani's claim be accepted against Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and Prophet (SAAWW), then there will born multitudes of other fake prophets.

Does Islam considers Ahmedi a Human? And, respects its basic rights?

Answer: Yes

Why?

Because the existing generation is not responsible for the sins of their forefathers as is said by Quran: "No bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another." In Islam, Punishment of one's father cannot be inflicted upon son. So, the existing Qadyani population has all rights in a Muslim society except propagating their religion because lies cannot be allowed to grow in a society to deceive population. But, they can perform their religious customs in their own society or social sphere. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, realizm said:

That's not true. Read about it. 

That's very true, and you seem to be unaware of the entire anti-Qadiani movement through the 70s in India and Pakistan, the court proceedings in the Pakistani Supreme Court , the role of the ulama like Mufti Ja'far Husain (rh) and Maulana Isma'il Deobandi (rh), and the subsequent legislation declaring them non-Muslim. Their ulama themselves stood in open court arguing that khatm-un-nubuwwah is not a core tenet of Islam, and how Mirza Qadiani was a genuine Prophet, and here you are saying that they don't hold the said view. Their contention that Qadiani was a 'prophet' but somehow still not a prophet the 'technical sense of the term' is just misleading semantics. I live in India and am aware of what views their various marākiz represent, both within the subcontinent and in London. One of their centres is in my own city.

If this fails to satisfy you, feel free to ask the Pakistani brothers on the forum itself.

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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:salam:

Well, I was relying on what is documented about them. I thought you meant that Lahore movement was precisely those more affirmative of Mirza Ahmad's prophethood, to which I thought I could correct you. You might know about the matter more than I do after all. Yet, I consider a semantics issue might leave some grey area, to which I would leave the benefit of the doubt rather than just throw the anathema, especially when some lives are permanently under threat. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Well, I was relying on what is documented about them. I thought you meant that Lahore movement was precisely those more affirmative of Mirza Ahmad's prophethood, to which I thought I could correct you. You might know about the matter more than I do after all. Yet, I consider a semantics issue might leave some grey area, to which I would leave the benefit of the doubt rather than just throw the anathema, especially when some lives are permanently under threat. 

Their ulama were called upon to explain their beliefs during the trial,and they failed to provide a coherent or logical explanation of their central belief. They never explained what they meant by 'Mirza Qadiani is a prophet and yet not a prophet'- a belief that not only flies in the face of Islam's theological core of the finality of Rasoolallah (S)'s Prophethood, but is also manifestly absurd- postulates of formal logic dictate that a thing can be either A or not-A at a given point of time, but never both at once. If (as their propagandists claim) they believe that Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani was merely a saint (walī) who reached the stage (maqām) of inkishāf, then why insist on calling him a prophet at all? They say that this belief of theirs is in line with the 'traditional views' within Islam, but neither the Shi'ā nor the Sunnīs nor Ibādīs subscribe to any such 'traditional view' of sainthood. None of these call their saints 'prophets'.

The lives being under threat is a separate matter and irrelevant to our discussion of whether or not they are to be considered Muslim. The state hasn't called for their killing, their citizenship hasn't been revoked, nor have they been declared kāfir harbī. It is just that they are officially not considered Muslims anymore. Deviant beliefs need to be pinpointed and denounced openly, especially when attempts are being made to drag  other Muslims down the lizard -hole of heresy.

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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there’s a mosque in our city built by the ahmadis and unless they’re practicing taqayyah, it’s walls have the shahadah written on it. i also have a friend whose ahmadi and he’s never said anything about his dude being a prophet. i think banishing the ahmadis from pakistan is what led the whole country to takfir and now every pakistani is paying for that mistake. 

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On 4/11/2021 at 8:29 PM, Dawid Das said:

Am just curious to know because I have an ahmadi friend and he considers everyone Muslim regardless what sect of islam since they all follow Quran. So what do you guys think? 

No.

Reason being that Khatm ul Nabuwwah (seal of prophethood) is the primary principle of prophethood  which says that :

'Prophethood is completed on The Holy Messenger (saw)'.

So, this fundamental of Islam is broken by Qadianis. Hence, they are not muslims.

But yes, as Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said :

"People are either your brothers in faith or your equals in humanity."

So, they are equals in humanity.

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