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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is this too much to ask? (Responses from sisters would be appreciated too)

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Posted (edited)

Salam'alaykum Dear Friends, 

All praise belongs to God, the Lord of all the worlds.

Imam Ja’far Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) narrates from his ancestors that Amirul Momineen ((عليه السلام).) said, “A person who obeys his wife will be thrown headlong into Hell.” Imam ((عليه السلام).) was asked what he meant by obedience of wife. He replied, “Here obedience means that the wife asks her husband to accompany her to bath, weddings, sermons etc. while she hasn’t covered her body properly, and he agrees.” (Thawāb al-Aʿmāl wa ʿiqāb al-Aʿmāl of the Great Shaykh al Saduq)

I do not know what the authenticity status of the hadith above is, but regardless, it reflects an important lesson. 

As male living in the West who wishes to get married one day, if God permits, I am interested in hearing your thoughts on something:

1) Is it too much for me to demand that the girl does proper hijab?  Is it too much on my part to want to marry a girl who practices proper hijab?

  • Proper Hijab = headscarf + full concealment of the bodily figure/contours + speech with non mahram limited to what's necessary (& no jest with non-mahram) + concealment of the hands and face if the situation calls for it (risk of attracting innapropriate gazes from non-mahram or if the girl just so good looking that most guys will be drawn towards looking at her). 
  • I also would not like my spouse to post images of herself online, even if it's just her face, for it doesn't make any sense for her to do so given the rulings of hijab, in my humble and fallible opion (unless there're some special circumstances or need, or maybe it's a giant group pic or plain pic for a professional/community event)
  • I see it as: Muhajjiba + Posting-Images-of-Herself-on-Social-Media = Oxymoron.

2) What do you think my odds are of finding someone in the West who will fufill the above (and who's also overall God-fearing, adorned with beautiful Islamic mannerisms, intelligent and clever, good looking (!), and has a sober but cool personality)?

3) Note - Don't mean to mock or be sarastic when I ask the above. I genuinely want to know and hear from you. Does anyone think I'm being too much/ too unreasonable, nit-picky, dwelling on something trivial so to speak? It seems many in the world are either unaware of these matters or just don't care. Even otherwise-wonderful sisters leading religious organizations or initiatives are not fulfilling what I wrote above. What surprises me the most is when some Islamic preachers are also comfortably featuring their wives on social media before the eyes of millions of non-mahram. 

----

There is this ruling explained by the scholar, Sayed Sabaah Shubbar, "a high ranking Mujtahid, known to be an expert in jurisprudential issues and has taught jurisprudence at the highest level in the seminary of Najaf al-Ashraf, and also has very close connections to Sayed Ali al-Sistani (h.a.)" (Purely Islam - Youtuber), not sure how accurate the translation is but it gets the message across:

Also: 

Ruling 2453. A woman must cover her hair and body, apart from her face and hands, from a non-maḥram man. And the obligatory precaution is that she must also cover her body and hair from a non-bāligh boy who understands good and bad if she deems it probable that him looking at the body of a woman would arouse lustful desires. However, a woman can keep her face and hands up to the wrists uncovered from a non-maḥram man unless she fears that he would fall into sin or she has the intention of making him look at something unlawful; in these two cases, covering those areas as well is obligatory on her. (sistani.org)

  • Previously this ruling was worded differently but it seems they've softened it up a bit. However, I personally believe the essence of the ruling is explained in the video above by Sayed.

 

Edited by AStruggler
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It is not too much to ask, but it does significantly limit your options. It would absolutely be unreasonable to expect a women who is not already living like this to start after marriage. In my opinion it's better to limit your options than to regret marrying the wrong person. 

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This is much less from an islamic point of view. But too much in most of the societies sadly.

I do think liberal Dawah is much more stronger than Islamic dawah, so they were easily able to twist the mindsets of women but we lagged behind even after being righteous. 

Regardless, you should stick to what you want. But if a woman has just started her journey on faith (maybe a revert or more practicing from less practicing) then you cannot expect her to just change easily in all aspects. So, I am not saying that you should reach out to non-hijabis too but definitely consider a woman who has started her jourmey of faith. 

Leave rest upon Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and have Tawakkul on Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Even some Imams also tolerated extremely ridiculous woman in there lives. So, be prepared for that too as a lover of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) and struggler to become there Shia.

I would also ask you to pray the Jaffer al Tayyar prayers everyday or every friday and ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for a life partner you want. Shed your tears and show extreme sincerity in your wish. You will get what you want inshallah. I am not someone who read the hadith and just adviced this without applying myself. I did apply this for my brother and it worked. Inshallah it will work for you too.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you and may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) help you.

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Your request is reasonable. However, shi'a society is not doing enough to get young sisters understand why putting 'Mandatory Eid pictures' on social media would be Haraam. If we frown upon/criticize such things often then it would make difference in perception of Hijab. 

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I think that the request is very reasonable. The women that you describe are out there, also in the West. I know many good girls like that actually, MashaAllah but it is true that they are harder too find. However, don’t forget that piety is from the heart and soul and I also have seen girls with hijab that you describe but the morals of those girls were very questionable. 

About social media, what would you think about a girl who has a social media account on private and just posts pictures for her friends to see? Because there are also many like that. 
Ask Allah for a good, pious wife who is a blessing in this life and in the next. Allah created everybody as a pair. My family knows another family in the West which were moderate Muslims except for their son. Their son was strict in his rules (e.g: he refused to sit on the same couch that his sister in law was on, even though there was a good distance between them). Things like that. The family was really confused as they did not raise him this way and they were concerned about the chances he had to find a wife. However, then they found a woman who was exactly like that, I believe she was also way stricter than the rest of her family and it was a match, MashaAllah. Allah is the best of planners. It’s the holy month Shabban which is Prophet Muhammed’s month so it’s good to do lot’s of saluuwatt and a very good time to do dua! 

 

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7 hours ago, Guest Sister said:

However, don’t forget that piety is from the heart and soul and I also have seen girls with hijab that you describe but the morals of those girls were very questionable. 

This ^

Why does it matter if they post pictures on social media as long as they are observing their hijab? Especially for a generation that has grown up on Instagram. Protective jealousy of a man is expected but nowadays it should also be in moderation I think, else you'll never find someone.

A lot of people don't observe the level of hijab you're looking for but they do exist. However when you combine it with wanting no social media posts, plus "intelligent, good looking (!), and has a sober but cool personality" you'll have a really tough time finding someone.

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21 hours ago, AStruggler said:

said, “A person who obeys his wife will be thrown headlong into Hell.”

Yep . . . he married it.  :shifty:

Seriously . . . the 0T has a proverb about not letting women get/have control over you. Reading that the first time in grade school was even then branded into my brain. This is good advice because it avoids conflict. Separate accounts. Your name only on your property -l even included the house, car, etc. Her name only on her stuff.

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Wa alaikum al salam.

Your criteria is healthy and there's nothing wrong with it, it is what most men want. However, when the time comes and you meet a woman, be sure to discuss these requirements with her prior to moving forward as others have mentioned. Do not just suddenly tell her that you expect her to wear hijab when she didn't wear it when you met. Perhaps you can reach a middle ground regarding some of your demands, such as not having male followers on Instagram instead of completely disallowing it.

As for your odds, they aren't great, but if Allah wants it for you and you are sincere then insha' Allah you will be blessed with a happy and healthy marriage.

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23 hours ago, AStruggler said:

What surprises me the most is when some Islamic preachers are also comfortably featuring their wives on social media before the eyes of millions of non-mahram. 

And... how is that a bad thing? Who said that is haram? You think your wife is not seen by many non mahram nowadays when she walks into a mall or her workplace? In that sense I. Think you are being picky and asking too much. If she has a job depending where she’s working, she’s gonna have to interact with a lot of men and women, based on your post you don’t seem too keen on that. 

23 hours ago, AStruggler said:
  • I also would not like my spouse to post images of herself online, even if it's just her face, for it doesn't make any sense for her to do so given the rulings of hijab, in my humble and fallible opion (unless there're some special circumstances or need, or maybe it's a giant group pic or plain pic for a professional/community event)
  • I see it as: Muhajjiba + Posting-Images-of-Herself-on-Social-Media = Oxymoron

Even this is being picky, unless the wife genuinely doesn’t like social media than that’s different. She’s still observing the hijab, so I don’t get what you mean because she’s still covered. What if her followers were all female? What if she was an influencer who gets paid for doing this stuff? If she’s observing hijab and wearing modest clothing I don’t see the issue if  her intentions are pure. 
If she didn’t want you posting pictures on social media, would you listen to her? if she didn’t want you speaking in the public to thousands of people, would you listen to her? If she didn’t want you talking to women outside from home, would you listen to her? Cause don’t forget non mahram are still looking at you too, I don’t see how that’s any different to a woman being looked at non mahram. Make it make sense. I understand men have protective jealousy which is not bad but I don’t believe it should be to this point. Women can also have protective jealousy over their husbands, they have emotions and feelings too but that is disregarded in the eyes of the Muslim community, simply because they’re women. You seem too overprotective that you want your wife to just stay home. 

 

23 hours ago, AStruggler said:

concealment of the hands and face if the situation calls for it (risk of attracting innapropriate gazes from non-mahram or if the girl just so good looking that most guys will be drawn towards looking at her). 

You have no right to force her to cover herself fully if she doesn’t want to because it’s not wajib. So yes, you are asking for too much imo, I’m surprised not many here see it that way (I’m assuming bc most of the posts here are by men).

there is nothing wrong with wanting a woman who observes the right hijab, but don’t go looking for a woman who isn’t like that and then forcing her to change after marriage. Go for a women who is already modestly covered, it’s a lot better that way because she’s willingly doing it for the sake of Allah if that makes sense.

23 hours ago, AStruggler said:

2) What do you think my odds are of finding someone in the West who will fufill the above (and who's also overall God-fearing, adorned with beautiful Islamic mannerisms, intelligent and clever, good looking (!), and has a sober but cool personality)?

Those few points there you mentioned arent bad things to ask for like mannerisms and intelligence,  but Good luck mate, cause youll never get a 10/10 in the real world with those high standards of yours which you’ve previously stated. You might get a pious religious muslimah with good looks but she’s mentally unstable. You might get a faithful muslimah who has a very nice personality but isn’t wearing the hijab according to your standards. You might get a hijabi who is wearing modestly but doesn’t have proper deen or akhlaq.  
Start lowering the bar and maybe you’ll get a chance Insha Allah. I know I sound blunt but try to change your mindset.

I don’t know why you quoted that narration from the beginning, idk whether it’s to prove that men can’t obey their wife or that only men can have the upper hand. 
 

fee amanillah 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

You have no right to force her to cover herself fully if she doesn’t want to because it’s not wajib.

Actually, it depends on the situation which is what he is clearly referring to:

On 4/9/2021 at 9:03 AM, AStruggler said:

concealment of the hands and face if the situation calls for it (risk of attracting innapropriate gazes from non-mahram or if the girl just so good looking that most guys will be drawn towards looking at her). 

 

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1 hour ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

Actually, it depends on the situation which is what he is clearly referring to:

Is there any hadith to back this up? That the face and hands must also be covered in some settings. Like @3wliya_maryam said it's not wajib and I've never heard of it being wajib except from wahhabis. 

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36 minutes ago, Uni Student said:

Is there any hadith to back this up? That the face and hands must also be covered in some settings. Like @3wliya_maryam said it's not wajib and I've never heard of it being wajib except from wahhabis. 

Yes there are ahadith to back it up but for now I will show the fatwa of Al-Sayyid As-Sistani and Sheikh Wahid Khurasani. I also suggest that you should watch the video that @AStruggler put up.

Ruling 2453. A woman must cover her hair and body, apart from her face and hands, from a non-maḥram man. And the obligatory precaution is that she must also cover her body and hair from a non-bāligh boy who understands good and bad if she deems it probable that him looking at the body of a woman would arouse lustful desires. However, a woman can keep her face and hands up to the wrists uncovered from a non-maḥram man unless she fears that he would fall into sin or she has the intention of making him look at something unlawful; in these two cases, covering those areas as well is obligatory on her.

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2335/

 

2498. …. She should also cover her face and hands in the event that she has the intention of displaying them, and a man looks at them with the intention of deriving pleasure. The obligatory precaution is that she should also cover them in the event that a man looks at them with the intention of deriving pleasure, even though she may not have the intention of displaying them. It is not obligatory to cover one’s head and hair from a non-baligh child, except in the event that it arouses his passion, in which case the obligatory precaution is to cover them.

Page 528, http://wahidkhorasani.com/data/books/islamic laws.pdf

 

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3 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

Actually, it depends on the situation

Under any circumstance he can’t force her into something that isn’t wajib. He shouldnt force her into anything. If it’s something for her own good like for example she stopped praying and prayer is wajib, he should encourage her to get back praying without actually forcing her. 

1 hour ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

unless she fears that he would fall into sin or she has the intention of making him look at something unlawful; in these two cases, covering those areas as well is obligatory on her

Again, it’s her choice. If SHE thinks she’ll fall into sin, not what her husband thinks.

 

I think a lot of people do not know what the main reason of the hijab is,and they think it’s main reason is to cover ourselves from men. Sure it’s one of the reasons but That isn’t even a main reason let alone ONE of the main reasons. The main reason is doing it for the sake of Allah, not for the sake of men. I’m not saying this as an excuse to say we shouldn’t wear a hijab or cover ourselves properly,what I’m trying to say is that the hijab is more than just a piece of cloth to cover your hair. If she’s forced to wear the hijab without knowing it’s actual purpose she’s not doing it willingly and she isn’t doing it for the sake of Allah. Muslims need to stop giving Islam the impression that it’s a forceful religion when in fact it’s a religion of encouragement. Did the prophet (sawas) go around forcing the Muslims to pray and fast? No he advised them because they already knew it was obligatory. Same with the hijab. Yes it’s wrong for a woman to remove or take it off, but as a Muslim she needs to believe that it’s wajib. That also doesn’t mean that if she doesn’t practice hijab she isn’t practicing in other things, again an assumption a lot of people like to make. Sure we need to do amr bil ma3roof but alot of people don’t know how to do that without being rude of judgemental.

i may have went a bit off topic here, but it’s just a lot of people fail to see this nowadays.


The hijab in most cases around the world doesn’t protect you from harassment, in fact there are statistics which show that it could exacerbate it, especially within the Muslim community in Britain:

https://themuslimvibe.com/muslim-lifestyle-matters/men/opinion-sexual-harassment-in-the-british-asian-muslim-community-must-be-taken-more-seriously?utm_content=bufferb9caa&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR1o-NSDchoAmEsuhoSn-Vtn0WgatVoXzQtHhIaG86DHhTMgjt6IAB4kQlA

just for reference. 

 

 

 

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As a guest just passing by....


Yea these are really high standards... a woman like this in reverse has standards as well.

Here’s a few questions:

- Do you keep your gaze lowered at ALL given times? 

- Do you keep your clothes on fully including below your knee?

- Do you go to the beach shirtless?

- Do you avoid watching movies where there is haram?

- Do you talk to non-Mahram women outside of purely business (and I mean necessary business not loopholes)? Do you joke with them? 

- Are you good looking and fun to talk to or sober with a cool personality? (Say if I took a poll of everyone around you)

- Are you pious enough to deserve her at all?

 

Brother, respectfully, what you are asking for is very strict and judgmental (you just decided that even sisters running Islamic efforts are not good enough and even clerics who are okay with their wives being public figures are in the wrong), you should know that in order to demand this you too will have to bring all of that to the table. If you want the perfect woman, you have to be the perfect man.

 

For all the other brothers, no not all men or even most want that. Some do and some don’t. 
 

Remember, hypocrisy eats faith. Be more humble and you will see a lot more clearly Insha’Allah.

W/Salam

 

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On 4/8/2021 at 7:15 PM, MexicanVato said:

There is ijma (consensus) on this from them lol.

Lol. And yea thanks for the reminder bro.

On 4/8/2021 at 7:51 PM, Abu Nur said:

Don’t limit it to only westerns but try to accept others countries too.

That's true, thanks, but I heard things are getting tough in the East too.

On 4/8/2021 at 7:18 PM, notme said:

In my opinion it's better to limit your options than to regret marrying the wrong person. 

Hmm interesting, thank you, will think about this and keep it in mind. 

On 4/9/2021 at 1:51 AM, Zainuu said:

I do think liberal Dawah is much more stronger than Islamic dawah

On 4/9/2021 at 2:27 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

Your request is reasonable. However, shi'a society is not doing enough to get young sisters understand why putting 'Mandatory Eid pictures' on social media would be Haraam. If we frown upon/criticize such things often then it would make difference in perception of Hijab. 

Great points, I agree, especially the last one (and this isn't an issue just for hijab). 

On 4/9/2021 at 6:06 AM, Guest Sister said:

I think that the request is very reasonable. The women that you describe are out there, also in the West. I know many good girls like that actually, MashaAllah but it is true that they are harder too find. However, don’t forget that piety is from the heart and soul and I also have seen girls with hijab that you describe but the morals of those girls were very questionable. 

About social media, what would you think about a girl who has a social media account on private and just posts pictures for her friends to see? Because there are also many like that. 

Thanks a lot for your post and the uplifting story. And hmm, I think private accounts are quick to lose their integrity and most of the times are just private by label. But yea depends on the posts and other factors too. 

22 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

As a guest just passing by....


Yea these are really high standards... a woman like this in reverse has standards as well.

Here’s a few questions:

22 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Brother, respectfully, what you are asking for is very strict and judgmental (you just decided that even sisters running Islamic efforts are not good enough and even clerics who are okay with their wives being public figures are in the wrong), you should know that in order to demand this you too will have to bring all of that to the table. If you want the perfect woman, you have to be the perfect man.

 

For all the other brothers, no not all men or even most want that. Some do and some don’t. 
 

Remember, hypocrisy eats faith. Be more humble and you will see a lot more clearly Insha’Allah.

Thanks a lot for your detailed post and the questions you listed. I agree with you, a woman like that will obviously have her own standards and deserves to have them fulfilled. And jazakallah for the excellent reminder on hypocrisy. As for the judgemental part, I was speaking towards those specific aspects of them which they themselves have displayed publicly. I'm not commonenting on how good or not good those individuals are overall as people/muslims. That's not for me to do. I was simply raising those speicifc public aspects of them which I found didn't make sense/were conflicting with and problematic with respect to their positions and their missions, and based on those ahkam laws. I think that was fair, someone needs to bring this stuff up. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/9/2021 at 1:34 PM, Uni Student said:

Why does it matter if they post pictures on social media as long as they are observing their hijab? Especially for a generation that has grown up on Instagram. Protective jealousy of a man is expected but nowadays it should also be in moderation I think, else you'll never find someone.

A lot of people don't observe the level of hijab you're looking for but they do exist. However when you combine it with wanting no social media posts,

It matters because often there's a high chance of attracting lustful/sinful gazes (especially if it's a well-groomed close up pic or there's make up or someone is just too aestheitcally gifted) and so consequently activating the requirement to conceal the face too (if I understand the rules correctly). Also, I'm not against social media altogether, there's a universe of things to post aside from one's body.

On 4/9/2021 at 6:30 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

And... how is that a bad thing? Who said that is haram? You think your wife is not seen by many non mahram nowadays when she walks into a mall or her workplace?

I find it concerning because the standards/"hijab-culture" expressed in the ahkam are likely being compromised.

Just to clarify, I never said it was absolutely haram, but it could easily be, so why linger around millimeters away from the red line or even prossibly cross it?.

And, there's a big difference between going to the mall/workplace versus giving unlimited access to virtually the whole world, still pictures of one's often-decorated face/body. There are big diifferences in the motives, needs, and the implications between these actions.

On 4/9/2021 at 6:30 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

If she didn’t want you posting pictures on social media, would you listen to her? if she didn’t want you speaking in the public to thousands of people, would you listen to her? If she didn’t want you talking to women outside from home, would you listen to her? Cause don’t forget non mahram are still looking at you too, I don’t see how that’s any different to a woman being looked at non mahram. Make it make sense. I understand men have protective jealousy which is not bad but I don’t believe it should be to this point. Women can also have protective jealousy over their husbands, they have emotions and feelings too but that is disregarded in the eyes of the Muslim community, simply because they’re women. You seem too overprotective that you want your wife to just stay home. 

If she's explaining to me that I'm doing something wrong or close to wrong, then why wouldn't I listen to her? I would gladly listen to her, thank her, and thank God for giving me such a caring spouse.

I don't get what you mean by the bolded. Okay, non mahram are looking at me too, but I will certainly do my best to follow whatever God ordered me to do about it.

And for the second bolded part, that's a huge generalisation. Simply because they're women? Most men or people in generalvdo not have anything against someone or have something to say to someone simply because they're a women, there's usually a lot more to it. And if womens' emotional needs are being disregarded by some communities then that is quite sad, inshaAllah we do work to improve that.

On 4/9/2021 at 6:30 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

You have no right to force her to cover herself fully if she doesn’t want to because it’s not wajib. So yes, you are asking for too much imo, I’m surprised not many here see it that way (I’m assuming bc most of the posts here are by men).

Haven't properly read about what rights a man has over his spouse, but ideally both parties should work together as a team to accomplish whatever God has tasked them with.

On 4/9/2021 at 6:30 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

Those few points there you mentioned arent bad things to ask for like mannerisms and intelligence,  but Good luck mate

Thank youu.

On 4/9/2021 at 6:30 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

I don’t know why you quoted that narration from the beginning, idk whether it’s to prove that men can’t obey their wife or that only men can have the upper hand. 

It's not about proving dominance. The words are attributed to the holy 6th Imam (a). It warns men to care for and guard the modesty of their wives. It's a wonderful hadith alhumdolillah and it fit well with the topic of my post (regarding men and their wives'/potential's hijab). 

On 4/9/2021 at 10:54 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

The main reason is doing it for the sake of Allah

100%!

On 4/9/2021 at 6:30 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

You have no right to force

On 4/9/2021 at 10:54 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

Under any circumstance he can’t force her into something that isn’t wajib. He shouldnt force her into anything.

On 4/9/2021 at 10:54 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

Again, it’s her choice. If SHE thinks she’ll fall into sin, not what her husband thinks.

I feel excessively focusing on and emphasizing "her choice", what "she thinks", the "I", is potentially destructive and divisive, and self-centric. I think we should focus on the "we" and what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wants.

Obviously, no one should be forceful or unjust or promote such. But it is expected, and I don't know if it's a ruling in the sharia too (bro @Muhammad Al-Hurr maybe you can tell us?) that the wife listens to the husband (And yes, the husband should listen to the wife too!).

Thank you for your response. 

Edited by AStruggler
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On 4/8/2021 at 4:03 PM, AStruggler said:

Even otherwise-wonderful sisters leading religious organizations or initiatives are not fulfilling what I wrote above. What surprises me the most is when some Islamic preachers are also comfortably featuring their wives on social media before the eyes of millions of non-mahram. 

These two sentences alone show that you are being slightly nitpicky with the level of hijab and social exposure you want your wife to have. And again, that's fine but when you combine it with your other wants, you're going to have to compromise in some aspects whether it be hijab, intelligence, looks, personality

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On a serious note:

You're not asking for too because girls do exist who do the proper hijab, have no social media accounts to even post picture, aren't interested in interacting with the opposite gender without a purpose.

BUT, remember that no one is perfect and rarely does anyone follow every detail in books of ahkam. I myself am ashamed to admit that I try my best but I neglect some laws of ahkam that might be difficult for me, not to rationalize or justify.

The best spouse you'll find is one who is striving in this path towards perfection. If she is genuine, humble and sincere, don't worry about anything else. Even if a girl might not meet every single criteria of yours at first, there is a chance that she'll start practicing a lot of things that she neglected before.  Human beings change and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can guide anyone. 

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