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In the Name of God بسم الله

The ShiaChat Marriage Crisis

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  • Veteran Member
12 hours ago, Anonymous_male said:

A ridiculous amount of money.

Elope . . . or have a civil ceremony at a justice of the peace. That is what l and both sets of my grandparents did.

There is some truth that a few gurls don't want to 'get married' as in all the responsibilities and work involved, but want to "have a wedding" where they are the center of attention. Then muddle through Life with krazy kids.

l am sure all the older sisters on SC can think of one they know or know-of some gurl that fits this narrative.

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This part was funny but sadly true.   I was talking to a girl and everything was good. I really wanted to marry her. She was Hijabi, religious, etc. (at least to my understanding). At the la

Nowadays, the problems don't even stop at just finding a partner. All sorts of problems arise after the engagement period. I've seen couples break off their engagement over the most ridiculous reasons

Good for you. Any gurl that asked for $40k l wouldn't give 40 cents for.

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this is precisely why i don’t “celebrate” my children’s birthdays. sometimes they don’t even remember it was their birthday, and i think that’s great. insha’Allah when the time comes, we’re spending $500 max on their weddings. a simple ceremony of nikah in a mosque and free food the next day for everyone. 

i think the reason behind large amounts of mahr is that some people are afraid and they just want to cover their bases. i don’t blame them. sorry to say but most parents don’t worry about how their boys are behaving compared to their girls. 

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36 minutes ago, Triggered said:

why i don’t “celebrate” my children’s birthdays. sometimes they don’t even remember it was their birthday,

Salam , They remember their every  birthday but maybe they are too shy to say anything  about it, so just celebrate  a very simple birthday  like celebrating  by a hommade cake and few baloons and invite some of their friends .

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lol thanks but no thanks @Ashvazdanghe and trust me, they’re not shy at all. i wish they were. they’re very vocal. sometimes their mother will make them their favourite dish. i don’t approve of it but whatever. walaikumsalam 

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On 4/18/2021 at 2:51 AM, hasanhh said:

There is some truth that a few gurls don't want to 'get married' as in all the responsibilities and work involved

As marriage is "half religion", they can't expect to complete half religion without having to face any responsibilities and performing all the work involved!

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Guest Psychological Warfare

Find a God conscious person to marry. It is not your rule they follow or subservient to or slave to. Its Allah(عزّ وجلّ) law that you ask each other to adhere to. If a person is God conscious, will be conscious of you. False idols of Image/society needs to be broken down and you need to take the lead.

Having money or not. Marry in a Islamic center, on a Happy occasion, like birthday or Eids we have. Nikah and you provide food to the people who are attending the Happy event ( Eids/birth events). 

Renting or buy no one owns anything in the west, its all owned by the banks. You are either paying a landlord or the bank( I do understand the equity build up etc.., but here its not an issue). You need place at this point, buy/rent is secondary. 

So, nothing should be impediment. Second, thing is if you can't find, there are other options. there are people in your country or others who are widowed, their spouses have been martyred, orphan, people ho can't afford basic living  there are many choices. 

Marrying does not impede you from having a career or studying. So, that is not an excuse. 

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On 4/4/2021 at 6:28 AM, Abu Hadi said:

Ideally, from what I have read in hadith, there should be no longer than a five year period from the time of this preparation till the marriage. So if we suppose that, for a girl, this preparation is complete by 15, then the 'prime time' for marriage for her is between 15 and 20. So she should her best not to extend this period beyond 20.

Since this preparation happens later for men, due to the fact that they have to support their wife financially, and for other reasons, so lets say for men the preparation is complete by 20. By 20, most men can support their wife financially in some kind of way. So for men, between 20 and 25.

You are adding 5 years after the age of rushd (mental maturity), but nowadays this comes much later than buloogh (physical maturity). So even by your guidelines of marrying by age 15-20 for girls and 20-25 for boys, the desires would have to be suppressed for about 10 years after puberty?

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I believe a solution would be for families to stop putting high expectations on the groom. We are living in times where people are spinning in hamster wheels just to pay their bills. They should also stop brain washing their daughters to believe that her worth comes from what material things her husband gifts her . The newly engaged/ wed women should avoid sitting with other women who compare and contrast their dowries.  Sitting down with such people can seriously cause marital problems. If a man has good morals, is kind, respectful, religious, and is providing for his wife  necessary provision: shelter, house, food,  clothes, water hygiene products, her wants, then its wrong to pressure him for an extravagant dowry.  

My own dowry was a Quran. I wouldn't trade these for the world, because Alhamduillah I have peace of mind that my husband loves me and he provides for me. I also opted for a nice dinner with close family instead of a wedding. Sometimes the less people the better lol. 

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On 4/30/2021 at 3:56 PM, Guest Qaz said:

You are adding 5 years after the age of rushd (mental maturity), but nowadays this comes much later than buloogh (physical maturity). So even by your guidelines of marrying by age 15-20 for girls and 20-25 for boys, the desires would have to be suppressed for about 10 years after puberty?

Becoming Bulugh  and Rushd (physically and mentally mature) doesn't happen in 1 day. It's not like when you turn 9 (for a girl) or 14 (for a boy) then 'poof', you're Bulugh and Rusd. It is a process that happens over years. It happens gradually when the realization of 'right' and 'wrong' happens and the idea of responsibility and personal accountability for actions develops. This process involves many 'moving parts' and it is also affected by the culture and the society the person grows up in, i.e. societal expectations. 

That is why in the Sharia, there is no exact age defined for Bulgh and Rushd. I have heard some people say, on this forum, that, for example, a girl is Bulgh and Rusd, and thus eligible for marriage after her first menses. What they are leaving out of their thought process on this is that the girl must consent to the marriage, without being forced or compelled by her family. This is wajib and lack of this will invalidate the marriage. Given how society is now, I would like to know what nine year old girl, after her first menses, is even thinking about marriage. So I would like the know if there is a possibility that a nine year old girl (or a 14 year old boy), again, in the modern societies, would accept to be married while knowing their responsibilities in a marriage and being willing and able to fulfill all of them. It might exist, but it is very, very rare. 

So they are not waiting 10 years after puberty. They are waiting from the time where they are Bulgh and Rusd, meaning they know what marriage is, what their responsibilities in marriage are, and have enough maturity and resources to fulfill these duties willingly, without compulsion, and (ideally) happily and with a good nature. This is where the age range quoted above comes in. This is also based on the ages in which our Imams((عليه السلام)) got married. Most of the Imams((عليه السلام)) got married in their early 20s. So if the Imams((عليه السلام)) are our example for everything, then this is the ideal age for marriage for men. For women, it's a little younger than this, since women don't have responsibility to support the family financially. 

 

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Agree completely. Just one thought though...a boy becomes baligh at around 15 years (or even as early as 11-12 years in some cases). Once baligh, all islamic laws apply on them just like any other adult. 

Now the question is that one of the basic rules in Islam is that if someone has fear of falling into sin, it is obligatory for him to get married. That means if a 15 year old boy has fear of any sexual sin, it is necessary that he gets married. We note here that the boy has not actually even sinned, but just having the fear that he might sin is enough to make marriage obligatory, as per the rule. 

Now the question is: how can a 15 year old boy in today's world get married? How old would the girl have to be for him to get married at this age? This seems like a near impossibility in today's world. In fact, it would be illegal to get married as per government rules before 18 years in many countries. 

That leaves us with a situation where a 15 year old has made it obligatory upon himself to get married because of his fear that he might sin without being married (such as masturbation, pornography etc).....but it is practically impossible for him to fulfill this obligation at this age. He might have to wait for 10-15 years before marriage can take place. 

At this point, the solution can be that the boy needs to do something that marriage no longer remains obligatory on him, as per the law. The main point is "fear" of sin which makes marriage compulsory. Now when marriage is not possible, then this compulsion has to be removed. The only way to do this would be to have "no fear" of sin. If the boy does something that his fear of sin goes away and he can be sure that he will not sin by remaining unmarried for upto a decade or even more, then it will not be obligatory on him to marry at the age of 15 years. 

So, either a 15 years old boy must get married (one way or another) if he has fear of sin. Or if he cannot get married at this age, and for many years to come, then not only must he not sin during this time, he must also not have even any fear that he might sin. 

Considering that most 15 years old boys fall in the second category where marriage isn't possible for them at that age, they must follow the guidelines that not even the fear of sin comes near them.... otherwise they will complicate things for themselves by making something obligatory upon themselves which they know they will not be able to perform for a long time. 

Simply put...From the perspective of Islamic jurisprudence: people who have no means to get married should suppress their desires to such low levels that they have no fear of committing any sin. Is this a correct or incorrect conclusion? 

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