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In the Name of God بسم الله

The ShiaChat Marriage Crisis

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With the amount of threads being created regarding mutah, istimna, porn, zina, the youth of this generation are clearly going through a crisis that it seems our forefathers were saved from. The reasons for this crisis are numerous but I think it's mainly due to the fact that marriage has become far less accessible and society/parents are delaying it unnecessarily, mainly because of a lack of knowledge of the extent of sexual perversions that most of the youth commit/try to avoid. My own parents have told me that it's very easy to wait until your late 20s to marry, as they were able to do it easily. It boggles the mind that they refuse to see how the youth of today have so much more indecency pushed towards them. 

Is there any solution to this problem for the ummah as a whole? I hear people saying "as a community we need to do better etc etc" but I don't think change will ever happen on that large of a scale. Is this a problem that we will be unable to solve since the proliferation of sexual sins is one of the signs of Qiyamah and the reappearance of Imam Mahdi ((عليه السلام).)? I think this is an issue that will run its course and get worse, and every young person will have to silently deal with.

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This part was funny but sadly true.   I was talking to a girl and everything was good. I really wanted to marry her. She was Hijabi, religious, etc. (at least to my understanding). At the la

Nowadays, the problems don't even stop at just finding a partner. All sorts of problems arise after the engagement period. I've seen couples break off their engagement over the most ridiculous reasons

Good for you. Any gurl that asked for $40k l wouldn't give 40 cents for.

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I agree that there is problems in our communities regarding this i also think the world has played a huge role in this. If a woman is sexually degenerate it is seen as being "empowered". Watching pornography is being "sexually educated". Masturbation is apparently just a "normal habit". So many people are becoming gay for some reason although where i grew up there was not a single gay person lol that i knew of. These external factors played a big influence on muslims and the muslim world. I think it has mostly has affected muslims in the west but in some generations the muslim youth in muslim countries will likely be like the youth of todays west.

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6 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

So the solution is that once a person reaches a certain age, they pass these stages, and their aql is working well, they can then decide whether delaying marriage is something that is good for them or not.

Right. Change will have to occur on an individual level because society/communities will not change no matter what. There was an Ammar Nakshawani video where he complains that he attended a youth conference where the lights were turned off so the "young men and women would not be able to see each others faces". And he complained that this Islamic center should have done the opposite, which was to allow mixing between the youth so marriage could be facilitated. These types of suggestions are likely to fall on deaf ears because no Islamic center will ever take that advice 

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On 3/30/2021 at 10:42 PM, Guest Change said:

And he complained that this Islamic center should have done the opposite, which was to allow mixing between the youth so marriage could be facilitated.

I don't know how this can be correct.

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) used to not even say Salam to young girls out of fear that he would have to hear their voice when they would reply to him and thus might end up displeasing Allah more than pleasing him for initiating the Salam. 

Also, as per Ayatullah Sistani:

As for looking at the face and hands up to the wrists of non-maḥram women, if it is with lust or there is a fear of committing a sin, it too is unlawful. In fact, the recommended precaution is that a man should not look at these areas even if it is not with lust or there is no fear of committing a sin.

I think the Islamic Centre is following this recommendation and thereby only making it easier for the men to avoid looking at non-mehrum, unrelated women. Personally, I think there is nothing wrong in this. I don't claim to follow this rule myself all the time, but I believe the most ideal situation would be that men never have to face a situation where they have to look at non-mehrum women or even hear their voice. 

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On 3/30/2021 at 3:59 PM, Abu Hadi said:

Once the physical preparation is complete, and the psychological / social preparation is complete, the only solution at this stage is to begin to seek out a spouse, and once this spouse is found, to get married

Yes but at the same time, Islam acknowledges that it is not possible for everyone to get married as soon as they desire to get married. It understands that there can be a considerable waiting period before any marriage can take place....That's why it has provided other solutions and given advice and recommendations on how to lead an unmarried life till marriage becomes possible - through patience, fasting and reduction of sexual desire to the point that there is no fear of any sexual sins. Being unable to get married, for a variety of reasons, is not something which Islam has refused to acknowledge. 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Anonymous-Male said:

Yes but at the same time, Islam acknowledges that it is not possible for everyone to get married as soon as they desire to get married. It understands that there can be a considerable waiting period before any marriage can take place....That's why it has provided other solutions and given advice and recommendations on how to lead an unmarried life till marriage becomes possible - through patience, fasting and reduction of sexual desire to the point that there is no fear of any sexual sins. Being unable to get married, for a variety of reasons, is not something which Islam has refused to acknowledge. 

The solutions that Islam proposes are short term solutions, like you said to get over the 'gap' period between when you are physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually ready to get married and the time when the opportunity presents itself. These short term solutions are not designed to extend the gap for a decade or more. They're like the spare tire on your car. You will be able to drive with the spare tire for maybe a week or a month, but after that, you need to get a real tire in order for your car to drive.  Ideally, from what I have read in hadith, there should be no longer than a five year period from the time of this preparation till the marriage. So if we suppose that, for a girl, this preparation is complete by 15, then the 'prime time' for marriage for her is between 15 and 20. So she should her best not to extend this period beyond 20. Some girls this preparation happens sooner than that, but to be within the laws of most of our countries, lets say 15 to 16. Since this preparation happens later for men, due to the fact that they have to support their wife financially, and for other reasons, so lets say for men the preparation is complete by 20. By 20, most men can support their wife financially in some kind of way. So for men, between 20 and 25. This is the 'prime time' for marriage. So they should make that their goal. Just like there is a 'prime time' for Salat (within 20 minutes of the athan or the prescribed time), there is a 'prime time' for marriage. This is the time when you get the most benefit out of it, and protect yourself from sin to the maximum by doing it within the 'prime time'. The longer you wait, the more the reward diminishes, and the less protected you are from the effects of sin and the waswas. 

The difference between marriage and Salat is that, like you said, there are some who don't have the opportunity to marry. You always have the opportunity to make Salat. But if you examine Salat, you will see that there are alternative forms of making Salat, for example for those who are not able to stand, they can make Salat while sitting. For those who can't sit up, they are able to make Salat in other ways. So there is always a way to make Salat. If you examine marriage in the same way, you will see that there is, almost always, a way for someone to marry. It may not be the traditional way or the way the is preferred by the parents, but there is usually always a way. I am not going to say there is always a way, because there are some extreme situation where there actually isn't, for example someone who is in prison, in extreme poverty, etc. But outside of those extreme situations, there is a way.

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2 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

The longer you wait, the more the reward diminishes, and the less protected you are from the effects of sin and the waswas. 

Yes, agree.  But how much reward one gets is something which only Allah can decide. Of course, the reward of a married person is more than that of an unmarried, but Allah is not unjust. If someone has tried whatever he could to get married but still couldn't, Allah could give him the same reward as a married man... And on top of that, give him more reward for being sexually patient and avoiding sins for extended durations. That is because Allah does not waste the efforts of the pious, and if He can keep married man free from sexual sins, He can also give the strength to pious unmarried men to be protected from sins, for as long their marriage doesn't take place. Therefore, while they should try utmost to get married early, unmarried men should not believe that just because they are unmarried, they will not be rewarded for their efforts and should not think that avoiding sins is impossible without early marriage. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Anonymous-Male said:

Yes, agree.  But how much reward one gets is something which only Allah can decide. Of course, the reward of a married person is more than that of an unmarried, but Allah is not unjust. If someone has tried whatever he could to get married but still couldn't, Allah could give him the same reward as a married man... And on top of that, give him more reward for being sexually patient and avoiding sins for extended durations. That is because Allah does not waste the efforts of the pious, and if He can keep married man free from sexual sins, He can also give the strength to pious unmarried men to be protected from sins, for as long their marriage doesn't take place. Therefore, while they should try utmost to get married early, unmarried men should not believe that just because they are unmarried, they will not be rewarded for their efforts and should not think that avoiding sins is impossible without early marriage. 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the ultimate judge because only He(s.w.a) knows all the particular details of a persons life, and what opportunities they did or did not have. If they are truly in that situation, then yes, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will not punish them for not being married. The subject of this thread is about the marriage crisis in the Shia community, that is where my comments were addressed. The crisis is not something that is imposed on us, as a community, it is something we did to ourselves because the vast majority (99%) of the brothers and sisters who believe or were convinced by others that marriage is not an option for them, that is false, and it actually is an option. That was the point. 

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3 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

So if we suppose that, for a girl, this preparation is complete by 15, then the 'prime time' for marriage for her is between 15 and 20. So she should her best not to extend this period beyond 20. 

Since this preparation happens later for men, due to the fact that they have to support their wife financially, and for other reasons, so lets say for men the preparation is complete by 20. By 20, most men can support their wife financially in some kind of way. So for men, between 20 and 25. This is the 'prime time' for marriage.

But aren't we supposed to marry in the late teens regardless of whether or not we have jobs, a degree, able to financially support another person, etc? 

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Posted (edited)

Early marriage is a blessing of Allah. Everyone should try to get this blessing and make efforts for it, but the final decision is with Allah. He chooses who He will bless with an early marriage and who He will test with a delayed marriage. This is just like other aspects of life, for example health. Good health is a blessing of Allah which He gives to some people but withholds from other people. Similarly, children are a blessing of Allah. He gives some people many children but keeps some women childless for their entire lives. 

So, if a person gets married early, he should thank Allah for this. But if his marriage is delayed for a very long time for reasons beyond his own control (there can be many people like that), then he should still thank Allah for considering him worthy of being tested for patience and self-control.

We have many examples in Islam where great men had to spend years without being able to get married (like Prophet Yousaf as. in prison for around a decade and Prophet Isa. for his entire life). Although they are Prophets, they were still humans and were able to live their unmarried lives with complete patience and self-restraint. Their lives should be role models for those who will have to stay unmarried for very long periods. Even our imams esp. Musa Kadhim as. spent years in prison away from their families but maintained their chastity.

So if someone is being tested for his sexual patience for extended durations, he should take lesson from the chastity of these role models and should not think that his unmarried life can ever become an excuse or any leeway for any sin. If he does commit any sin, he cannot blame it on his inability to get married because the examples of the Prophets and imams are proofs that it is possible to be chaste while staying unmarried, even for extended periods. If someone has failed to remain chaste while being unmarried, then it is his own fault for not being patient enough. 

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So is it wrong for scholars to recommend early marriage for young teens even though they are jobless, so that they are married but living separately in their parents homes? I think if one is not mature enough to hold a job then they also aren't mature enough for marriage

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On 3/30/2021 at 2:53 PM, Guest Change said:

With the amount of threads being created regarding mutah, istimna, porn, zina, the youth of this generation are clearly going through a crisis that it seems our forefathers were saved from. The reasons for this crisis are numerous but I think it's mainly due to the fact that marriage has become far less accessible and society/parents are delaying it unnecessarily, mainly because of a lack of knowledge of the extent of sexual perversions that most of the youth commit/try to avoid. My own parents have told me that it's very easy to wait until your late 20s to marry, as they were able to do it easily. It boggles the mind that they refuse to see how the youth of today have so much more indecency pushed towards them. 

Is there any solution to this problem for the ummah as a whole? I hear people saying "as a community we need to do better etc etc" but I don't think change will ever happen on that large of a scale. Is this a problem that we will be unable to solve since the proliferation of sexual sins is one of the signs of Qiyamah and the reappearance of Imam Mahdi ((عليه السلام).)? I think this is an issue that will run its course and get worse, and every young person will have to silently deal with.

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this. It can be debatable.

First of all, yes I can agree that majority of our youth are going through a crisis in terms of handling their desires, especially in this generation. However, in terms of marriage being far less accessible and because of lack of knowledge, that can be debatable. For example, there are many girls who don't wanna get married because based on what they've witnessed and experienced for themselves that to find a good decent man can be troubling. (Idk if youre mainly referring to men in this situation but since you said youth im assuming both genders). Same for the guy, though I feel like they have more privileges compared to girls, especially in terms of marriage (it sounds like generalisation but its also facts in the current world we're living in). but I guess there are other families who are different and don't want their sons married at all till their a lot older. Which is also troubling. 

They have also made marriage more difficult by being forced to marry into their culture and traditions. They have really high standards, and I guess we all tend to have one way or another, but you're never gonna get a 10/10 and i feel like that's what many parents nowadays are looking for.

But I don't think less access to marriage is the main reason, but rather it lies on lack of knowledge, from the child and from the parents. There are people who think that if they got married, it would solve all their problems like masturbation for example when really it doesn't. There are men who are married with kids and still masturbate because its an addiction, and like any addiction you need to have your own self control and that just doesn't come from marriage. Rather parents should educate the young generation on such matters.

We can only do what we can do. By serving the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) and the Qaim (ajf).

9 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

It's not always the parents fault, a lot of the youth are sitting at home jobless and not taking action.

I agree to this to some degree, only because there are times where parents don't actually allow or encourage their children anyway. So yes a part of is still for the parents to blame. Because they haven't taught them anything about contribution to society and force them to be isolated and live in a cage. Only when they're older they realise what the parents let them miss out on and hence thats when they take action, which honestly is very difficult. But that doesn't mean its impossible to change and take action, it just might take longer for others I guess.

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9 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

It's not always the parents fault, a lot of the youth are sitting at home jobless and not taking action.

I'd say this can also be pinned on the parents in *some* cases. Not all. But a lot of young guys that I see that aren't doing anything with their lives have often been spoiled by the parents

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Posted (edited)

 

On 3/30/2021 at 8:53 AM, Guest Change said:

With the amount of threads being created regarding mutah, istimna, porn, zina, the youth of this generation are clearly going through a crisis that it seems our forefathers were saved from. The reasons for this crisis are numerous but I think it's mainly due to the fact that marriage has become far less accessible and society/parents are delaying it unnecessarily, mainly because of a lack of knowledge of the extent of sexual perversions that most of the youth commit/try to avoid. My own parents have told me that it's very easy to wait until your late 20s to marry, as they were able to do it easily. It boggles the mind that they refuse to see how the youth of today have so much more indecency pushed towards them. 

Is there any solution to this problem for the ummah as a whole? I hear people saying "as a community we need to do better etc etc" but I don't think change will ever happen on that large of a scale. Is this a problem that we will be unable to solve since the proliferation of sexual sins is one of the signs of Qiyamah and the reappearance of Imam Mahdi ((عليه السلام).)? I think this is an issue that will run its course and get worse, and every young person will have to silently deal with.

creddits to you brother!!! Finall ysomeoene who understand it..!!thank god for it 
really well said!!!

D07F550D-474F-408D-AFE7-201A515DD732.jpeg.412273ac9aebf57d136372f815f8853d.jpeg

 

 

Imagine imam mahdi opening shiachat... Imagine him seeing all these topics.. 

 

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@M.A.H I agree with you brother. In general I think everyone involved: parents, children, middle parties, need to purify their intentions. 

Anyone who is in it for money, glory, social status etc... has set a false foundation which won't necessarily stand the tests/trials of time and circumstances.

If the basis and foundation is closeness to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), then money, social status, perception should not be a factor or obstacle and the challenges that come with time will inshaAllah be adequately faced and handled.

11 hours ago, Guest Change said:

So is it wrong for scholars to recommend early marriage for young teens even though they are jobless, so that they are married but living separately in their parents homes? I think if one is not mature enough to hold a job then they also aren't mature enough for marriage

I don't think it's wrong, but it helps if the right support is available. If the parents are ready to support their married children while they are still studying (provide them accommodation and possibly a stipend) then this can work. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

There are people who think that if they got married, it would solve all their problems like masturbation for example when really it doesn't. There are men who are married with kids and still masturbate because its an addiction, and like any addiction you need to have your own self control and that just doesn't come from marriage.

Marriage can help some people to avoid sins, but it is not an absolute guarantee of chastity. 

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said: The greatest worship is to limit the sexual desire to that which is permissible. 

Limiting sexual desire, even for married people, is nothing less than Jihad. 

The Prophet (s) also said that when man approaches his wife, it is like he is doing Jihad - not verbatim. Perhaps that means that since he has not fulfilled his desire anywhere else, and has completely limited it, and this is as difficult as doing Jihad in battle, therefore when he fulfills his desire with his wife, he gets the reward for his Jihad. 

So if a married person has to battle with his desire to masturbate and has to show extreme degree of patience and self-control in limiting his desire to his wife only, then his reward is with Allah. 

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Guest Psychological Warfare

Once a child reaches an age where he can do without 24/7 care of the "Mommy". Education and Mental Maturity of the Children is the Responsibility of the Parents. Especially the Father, for the male children.

This trend of "Allowing " them  to be Kept as "suckling babies"  is against Nature. 

They are Not our Toys. 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this. It can be debatable.

First of all, yes I can agree that majority of our youth are going through a crisis in terms of handling their desires, especially in this generation. However, in terms of marriage being far less accessible and because of lack of knowledge, that can be debatable. For example, there are many girls who don't wanna get married because based on what they've witnessed and experienced for themselves that to find a good decent man can be troubling. (Idk if youre mainly referring to men in this situation but since you said youth im assuming both genders). Same for the guy, though I feel like they have more privileges compared to girls, especially in terms of marriage (it sounds like generalisation but its also facts in the current world we're living in). but I guess there are other families who are different and don't want their sons married at all till their a lot older. Which is also troubling. 

They have also made marriage more difficult by being forced to marry into their culture and traditions. They have really high standards, and I guess we all tend to have one way or another, but you're never gonna get a 10/10 and i feel like that's what many parents nowadays are looking for.

But I don't think less access to marriage is the main reason, but rather it lies on lack of knowledge, from the child and from the parents. There are people who think that if they got married, it would solve all their problems like masturbation for example when really it doesn't. There are men who are married with kids and still masturbate because its an addiction, and like any addiction you need to have your own self control and that just doesn't come from marriage. Rather parents should educate the young generation on such matters.

We can only do what we can do. By serving the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) and the Qaim (ajf).

I agree to this to some degree, only because there are times where parents don't actually allow or encourage their children anyway. So yes a part of is still for the parents to blame. Because they haven't taught them anything about contribution to society and force them to be isolated and live in a cage. Only when they're older they realise what the parents let them miss out on and hence thats when they take action, which honestly is very difficult. But that doesn't mean its impossible to change and take action, it just might take longer for others I guess.

Yes, good men / women are hard to find. That's why the hadith 'If a man comes to you and you are satisfied with his deen and aklaq, then marry him, otherwise....'. That hadith addresses the problem of scarce good men / women. Because, assuming the women is good because she is following the hadith, and she is satisfied with his deen and aklaq (meaning he is good), then she shouldn't hold off to consider, ponder, get the opinions of various people, finish her education, etc, she should marry him, quickly because if she doesn't, that's why it says '...otherwise she will have created 'fasad' (corruption)'. This seems kind of harsh, but one of the meanings of this is that if a good man approaches her and she turns him down, she will have created corruption for herself, i.e. she will lose her 'covering' from the waswas of Shaitan thus leaving herself vunerable, due to not being married, she will do the same for him, and possibly others who will see what she did and 'give up' and the idea of marriage, at least for a while, thinking that it is too difficult to do this because if she turned down this guy, I will probably get turned down also. They will possibly get into a pattern of negative thinking about marriage, which often happens nowdays. When we do an action, it doesn't happen inside a bubble or inside a vacumn, other people see what we do and it affects them either positively or negatively. It sets off a chain reaction of events, either positive or negative. While we may not be responsible for all the events, we are responsible for setting off the chain reaction, if we know that what we are doing is wrong. 

The vast majority of men (unless they have a biologically based mental illness) turn to haram (pornography, masturbation, zina, visiting prostitutes, etc) because they believe that they have no other choice because the halal avenue, i.e. marriage, is closed for them. Part of this false belief is their fault, because most of the time they are ignoring opportunities that actually exist, but part of it is due to the society around them and how easy or how hard the society makes it for men (and women) to satisfy this biologically / psychologically / spiritually based need in a halal way. There is almost always a social factor involved in someone committing or not commiting a sin. That is why people will be judged individually by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on the day of Judgement but also as a member of a society (ummah). 

The other part you spoke about, guarding yourself from certain sins, this is addressed by another hadith (which is too famous). 'Those who marry have secured 1/2 their relgion, but they need to have taqwa to secure the other half'. What this hadith is saying is marriage is definitely a big help in securing the deen, maybe more helpful than any other single act one can do, but it is not a guarantee or a standalone solution. If someone does not also try to develop and extend their taqwa by following the rest of the wajibat and avoiding the haramat, then marriage won't secure their religion. They need to marry, and also do the other required things, but marriage will make avoiding a large number of haramat easier for them. 

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On 4/5/2021 at 1:03 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

Only when they're older they realise what the parents let them miss out on and hence thats when they take action,

You're right, parents are very protective of their daughters and don't let them go out, I actually think they do become very unreasonable. 

If men miss out on opportunities, yes maybe their parents were strict and didn't give them much encouragement, but largely due to their own laziness and personal unresolved issues. There is absolute no excuse for a guy in his late twenties to be still living with his parents (not saying it's a bad thing) and missing out on so opportunities, in terms of marriage, career, finances etc.  

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

The vast majority of men (unless they have a biologically based mental illness) turn to haram (pornography, masturbation, zina, visiting prostitutes, etc) because they believe that they have no other choice because the halal avenue, i.e. marriage, is closed for them

Yes, agree. But also, even if the halal avenues are actually closed to them, for example, in very extreme situations, such as being marooned on a deserted Island for ever, or being in a  prison serving a life sentence, still Islamic law will not allow them to commit sins such as masturbation even once in their lives. Even in such unusual circumstances, a man is not allowed to give any excuse to indulge in sin. If a person like this commits masturbation even once in his life, then he has crossed the limits set by Allah, because his sexual desire was not meant to be so high in the first place that he had to indulge in sin.

If a man lets his carnal desires go unchecked and falls into sin, he cannot give an excuse that he sinned because he was unmarried, even if he is on a deserted Island. 

I think this point needs to be highlighted more because what we hear all the time is that people are given the advice that they should get married early otherwise they will fall into sin. Also, they are given advice that the only solution to avoid sins is marriage. I think what some people may erroneously conclude from this is that because the only way to safeguard from sins is early marriage and because they don't have any chance to get married early, so they have some valid and justifiable reason to sin as they have no other option. This thinking is wrong because Islamic law demands that regardless of why someone cannot get married, the sexual desire needs to be suppressed to the level that sexual sins don't happen. If an unmarried person sins, the blame is on him that why wasn't he able to reduce his sexual desire. 

I don't claim infallibility for myself, but just highlighting the rules of Islamic jurisprudence. 

5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

most of the time they are ignoring opportunities that actually exist,

Even if there is really no opportunity to get married, still that is not a valid reason to sin. The law is clear about this and every unmarried person should understand that sexual desire simply cannot, in any way at all, be satisfied before marriage. Nobody should feel that this is impossible because Allah doesn't test anyone with a burden greater than he can carry. Of course Allah is most forgiving, and it is like a Jihad to be chaste before marriage, and even after it, and I don't claim any infallibility, but the Islamic rules should be highlighted in a way that unmarried people get a strong deterrent to sin. 

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On 3/30/2021 at 11:53 AM, Guest Change said:

With the amount of threads being created regarding mutah, istimna, porn, zina, the youth of this generation are clearly going through a crisis that it seems our forefathers were saved from. The reasons for this crisis are numerous but I think it's mainly due to the fact that marriage has become far less accessible and society/parents are delaying it unnecessarily, mainly because of a lack of knowledge of the extent of sexual perversions that most of the youth commit/try to avoid. My own parents have told me that it's very easy to wait until your late 20s to marry, as they were able to do it easily. It boggles the mind that they refuse to see how the youth of today have so much more indecency pushed towards them. 

Is there any solution to this problem for the ummah as a whole? I hear people saying "as a community we need to do better etc etc" but I don't think change will ever happen on that large of a scale. Is this a problem that we will be unable to solve since the proliferation of sexual sins is one of the signs of Qiyamah and the reappearance of Imam Mahdi ((عليه السلام).)? I think this is an issue that will run its course and get worse, and every young person will have to silently deal with.

Bro we would love to marry but we have to complete degrees then earn some stupid money before that. And till that, we can do nothing but wait :D

Taxes on Nikah and the way people do marriages they spend too much on marriage ceremonies here because they consider not doing so a disgrace then after marriage, they have burdens of debt etc...

Thats terrible.

Shias (Sadly including me) do many things 180 degs to what imams told yet are big mouths

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On 4/5/2021 at 11:42 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

It's not always the parents fault, a lot of the youth are sitting at home jobless and not taking action.

I was looking for a job as a school teacher in a private school. He wanted to pay ~90K Iraqi Dinars (~60$) a month. If we take the average mahr which can be between $10K - $20k it would take me between 13 - 27 years to get that kind of money :cryhappy:. It is probably better to just sit down and rot away than it is to work for literal slave wages.

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1 hour ago, Berber-Shia said:

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”

We are in the fourth part.

I'd argue third part. Life is too good for most people nowadays, at least in the West

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35 minutes ago, pisceswolf96 said:

I was looking for a job as a school teacher in a private school. He wanted to pay ~90K Iraqi Dinars (~60$) a month. If we take the average mahr which can be between $10K - $20k it would take me between 13 - 27 years to get that kind of money :cryhappy:. It is probably better to just sit down and rot away than it is to work for literal slave wages.

This is soo sad these tradiotional girls needs to stop, what an embarrassing, I am sure their own parents dont even have that amount of money. If you get payed 60dollars (Which is acc to you avarage salary) than the mahr should change into a realistical amount.. This is soo sad that these girls turned into such creatures

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5 minutes ago, F.M said:

This is soo sad these tradiotional girls needs to stop, what an embarrassing, I am sure their own parents dont even have that amount of money. If you get payed 60dollars (Which is acc to you avarage salary) than the mahr should change into a realistical amount.. This is soo sad that these girls turned into such creatures

The low wages is due to Iraq crumbling economy, some people work for free up to 8-10 years in the hopes that they'll get hired in the public sectors. And 60$ is extremely low even by Iraq's standard and I don't blame the parents or the girls at all. After all why would you want somebody who doesn't have a house, a car, or a future? I would be better to not get married (and not have children).

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Guest Psychological Warfare

Looks like Culture takes Precedence over Religion in most Acts. However, We are very selective in using this rebuttal.

Did the Imam(عليه السلام) do it?

Is it Bidah/Innovation? 

Maybe because the peer pressure is such that we will be rebutted and ignored( It's not politically Correct ). So, people just give up and play dead and let things happen. Easier this way, verses taking a stand which will bring the wrath of the Society. 

Be the Change you like to see, Take a stand and lead by example. Otherwise be a part or silent spectator - both the same.  No point in words which do not turn into action. 

Everyone knows the issue and the solution. Can't change the past or present but you can change the future. It all starts with "You". If you have what it takes to lead. 

It is easier said than done but its not impossible. Start with little changes in the way things work or big whatever you have the strength to endure .

It will require loosing the image conscious/ people pleasing personality.  What will "They" say. can't be part of our mental fabric. 

Real Polytheism is to worship the Wealth, Status , Society, Wife, Husband, Kids, Father, Mother, Brother, Sister, Inlaws. We love them, but we don't worship them. 

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12 hours ago, pisceswolf96 said:

After all why would you want somebody who doesn't have a house, a car, or a future? I would be better to not get married (and not have children).

how about imam ali? but he proofed all humanity that being poor means nothing. 

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21 hours ago, Berber-Shia said:

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”

We are in the fourth part.

i would say we are in the 3rd one because our lives are getting easier and men get weaker

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6 hours ago, F.M said:

how about imam ali? but he proofed all humanity that being poor means nothing. 

Yes, but I'm neither Ali nor are the women I'm trying to get married to are Fatima. And beside I can see how men could abuse this to not provide a good living for their spouse.

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51 minutes ago, pisceswolf96 said:

Yes, but I'm neither Ali nor are the women I'm trying to get married to are Fatima. And beside I can see how men could abuse this to not provide a good living for their spouse.

i didnt say that you are like them its just an inspiration also for people a proof that they should stop nagging all time.  they got send by god as proof and example that  there doesnt exist something called impossible, 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/6/2021 at 2:18 PM, pisceswolf96 said:

If we take the average mahr which can be between $10K - $20k

Woahh is it actually that much? That's seriously messed up. If a girl asks for that much I'd probably contemplate if she's even the right one. 

If you ask me, 100 bucks max take it or leave it :D . I kid lol. I actually have no idea what the standard is where I am or amongst people of my background - but have never heard of it being as serious of an issue.

I don't mean to be racist or anything but I feel this expensive mahr issue is more prevalent in people of a certain background. Based on my observations. I could be wrong though.

I don't think every girl is like that. I remember reading online once that a girl just asked for the husband to read her a book every few days as the mahr - something like this. 

Edited by AStruggler
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