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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Do Christians Deny Allah

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2 hours ago, Joshua Bin Medellin said:

The concept of tawhid is so vital, God intervenes when mankind goes astray apart from his Oneness as a guide and as a mercy and that is why the Qur'an states that Prophet Muhammad(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is a mercy given to the world. It is meant to guide humanity back to the Unity of God; Allah's Oneness.  This is Love from our Creator, whom is our salvation to whom we turn torwards (Surah al-Fatihah) and Allah guides whom He wills. 

Hey Joshua you are so right The oneness of God is basic to living a moral and upright life - we only have One God to give us guidance and standards to live by.  There is no competition.  There is one path to one God.  As you say God in his mercy has shown us the way through the scriptures.  The words of the prophets are a guide they point not just to the oneness of God but, more importantly, to what God will do.

Knowing there is one God and turning (returning?) to him in worship is not enough.

You talk about salvation - what do you have in mind?

More than our worship God wants to have a close intimate relationship with us.  To be our friend to adopt us into his family so we can become his children.  This is salvation.  Salvation from the selfish kingdom of our hearts and our wills into the kingdom of God where he rules and lives with us and in us so his will is done in our lives and circumstances as in heaven.

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12 hours ago, Joshua Bin Medellin said:

tek91,

The concept of Oneness (Unity) is central and sacred in Islam, but it is also sacred in the Torah(and Tanak), and in the words of Jesus(a) in the Gospels, which can be found basically in Deut 6:4 and Mark 12:29. The concept of Trinity and that Jesus is God as introduced by various Christian Councils and decrees over the nature of the divinity in Jesus violates the concept of Oneness in Islam, tawhid. There are various exegesis that explains this better than I can, although I have mentioned Ayatollah Subhani in my previous post regarding Imam Ali(a)'s response to the Jewish rabbis and how he upheld the concept of tawhid, which imo is excellent, although he only cites it to demonstrate Imam Ali(a)'s authority and leadership (Resplendence of Wilayah).

The concept of tawhid is so vital, God intervenes when mankind goes astray apart from his Oneness as a guide and as a mercy and that is why the Qur'an states that Prophet Muhammad(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is a mercy given to the world. It is meant to guide humanity back to the Unity of God; Allah's Oneness.  This is Love from our Creator, whom is our salvation to whom we turn torwards (Surah al-Fatihah) and Allah guides whom He wills. 

 

 

 

Hello Joshua Bin Medellin

I would like to add that the Hebrew word used for one in OT is not Yachid but Echad. 

Yachid is the word for single, for instance the number one.

Echad means a single entity but made up of more.

Let me give you some examples the word Echad is also used in the OT to describe Adam and Eve when God says the two shall become one flesh.

Or Genesis 1:5 where the evening and the morning were the first or (one) Echad day..

We believe God his Holy Spirit and his Word in are in like manner (Echad) one.

Edited by tek91
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23 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

You talk about salvation - what do you have in mind?

Surah 2.2-5 are a few passages out of many that are described in the Qur'an, but essentially boils down to obeying Allah's commands, and not too surprising (or perhaps surprising to those Christians who do not know) they bear striking similarity to the Beatitudes, part of the Sermon on the Mount in the book of Matthew. 

Quote

This is the Book, there is no doubt in it, a guidance to the righteous, who believe in the Unseen, and maintain the prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them; and who believe in what has been sent down to you and what was sent down before you, and are certain of the Hereafter. Those follow their Lord’s guidance, and it is they who are the felicitous. (Qur’an; 2: 2-5)

 

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Posted (edited)

 

16 hours ago, tek91 said:

Yachid is the word for single, for instance the number one.

Echad means a single entity but made up of more.

I'm not an expert in Hebrew, but I gathered that the Hebrew אֶחָֽד׃ for echad/ehad has more than one meaning than ascribed to here and that it also includes the meaning for Absolute. Jews for Judaism website lists the verses in the Hebrew Bible where it describes this exactly in such contexts, upon which it makes the argument that in relation to Deut 6:4 from the Shema, it does not refer to a single entity made up in a compound sense, but in an Absolute sense and it appears from other areas I have read that this Absolute definition of ehad is used for God, but can not be compared to what He creates (ie, one day). 

Similarly the word for One in Arabic is ahad and Surah Ihklas (112) describes the tawhid of Allah perfectly, better than I can describe because neither am I an expert in Arabic (although personally this is a condition that i am working to change). The Qur'an states that it was specifically delivered in Arabic in order for the just meaning of the message to be delivered - and that is why translations of the Qur'an are not considered to be the Qur'an. Even without knowing the Arabic, there are many who are experts in the subtleties of the language that in exegesis can clearly elaborate for those who don't know. Found this blog on the Arabic for the word Ahad which is broken down into its finer parts (especially from Surah 112).  

Note: I saw that the page I cited regarding Ahad is quite long, so I'll cite the main part that pertains to the breakdown of Ahad with other terms associated with the concept of tawhid:
 

Quote

Say: “He is Allah, the One and Only.” (The Holy Quran, Surah Al-Ikhlas, Ayah 1, 112:1). Let us first analyze the sentence, “Huwa-Allahu Ahad”, هُوَ ٱللَّهُ أَحَدٌ   lexically. This name is used in the Qur’ân. For example, see 112:1. The ancient roots of Ahad point toward to the essential qualities which describe Unity, while the ancient roots of Wâhid point toward the manifestations which arise from that Unity. That which is Ahad cannot be divided into parts, or any parts distinguished. That which is Wâhid has the appearance of being divisible into separate parts, or being comprised of separate parts. Ahad is used to refer to the One, the sole One, the One who was not begotten and who has ever been alone, the One who has no second, the Indivisible. Wâhid indicates the solitary Starting Point, the One Source, the First of the Many, from which all of creation has arisen as manifestations of Unity. From a human point of view, the manifestations may appear separate and diverse, but in reality they are One.

 

Edited by Joshua Bin Medellin
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4 hours ago, Joshua Bin Medellin said:

not an expert in Hebrew, but I gathered that the Hebrew אֶחָֽד׃ for echad/ehad has more than one meaning than ascribed to here and that it also includes the meaning for Absolute. Jews for Judaism website lists the verses in the Hebrew Bible where it describes this exactly in such contexts, upon which it makes the argument that in relation to Deut 6:4 from the Shema, it does not refer to a single entity made up in a compound sense, but in an Absolute sense and it appears from other areas I have read that this Absolute definition of ehad is used for God, but can not be compared to what He creates (ie, one day). 

Thanks for your feedback Joshua Bin Medellin

I'm just saying that if God wanted to say complete or absolute one or number 1 as we all know it he would have used the hebrew word Yachid.

For example in gen 22:12 where it describes your son, your Yachid son..

Basically it's describing absolute oneness the one son.

 It would have made more sense that Yachid should have been the hebrew word used in Deutoronomy 6:4 in the way that muslims understand it..

Edited by tek91
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I would like to also add that Muslims like to say 1 + 1 + 1 does not equal 1

The hebrew word in deutoronomy to describe Gods oneness is not the number 1 which is yachid 

The word echad in deutoronomy has been used to describe how God is one that same word has been used in torah to describe a unity of one.

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Hi There

Thanks for this helpful comment describing salvation as

23 hours ago, Joshua Bin Medellin said:

essentially boils down to obeying Allah's commands,

And linking it to the Beatitudes in The Trustworthy Injil Matthew chapter 5:3-12 and the Qur'an verses 2:2-5

This has been a good for me as it has made me look again at the teaching of Jesus the Messiah.  Joshuah, your refered to these verses I assume you have read them and thought about how they impact life.

Qur'an 2:2-5 give guidence about things people must do

  • Believe in the unseen (God? Angels? the spirit world?)
  • Pray regularly
  • Give to charity and don't get into debt
  • Believe in (accept) the Qur'an and the previous books - Torah, Zebur, Injil  (making no difference between them)
  • Being certain of life after death - The hereafter

The beatitudes look at attitudes

  • Poor in spirit - recognising our weakness before God
  • Those who mourn - over the state of the world? our own state?
  • Meakness or humility
  • Wanting  (working for?) righteousness and justice
  • Showing mercy
  • Having a pure heart
  • Workers for peace
  • Those who suffer for God's sake

It is a good thing to measure ourselves by these standards.

Some days I will take a beatitude and think about it all day asking myself in each action or word whther I'm living in acordance to this standard.

When I do this I am drawn back to God and call on him for help.  Praise his name, he is always there ready to help and to save.  Maybe that is one aspect of salvation.

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22 hours ago, Joshua Bin Medellin said:

Surah Ihklas (112) describes the tawhid of Allah perfectly

When I look at sura 112 it makes me think of words which God revealed through the prophet in the Hebrew Bible

Prophet Isaiah speaking out God's words says Isaiah chapter 46:9

Remember the things I have done in the past.
    For I alone am God!
    I am God, and there is none like me.

These are such powerful words calling us to worship only God the creator and redeemer of his people.  No one else is worthy of worship or alligence.

This is the God I worship - the ONE who is incomparable.

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