Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Why should we be good Muslims

Rate this topic


Guest Bro

Recommended Posts

What benefit do religious youth gain from being good muslims and following all the rules, if the nonreligious youth have their fun and then do sincere repentance and receive God's mercy? Is there any distinction between people who are forgiven for their major sins, and people who never committed those sins at all? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

It depends on the Quality of the repentance.

A since repentance is to put real effort, to be deeply ashamed of what you've done, not to do it ever again, to read Dua, Quran and Qada Prayer as much as possible, to do good deeds, etc

Those who haven't committed sins, can hold their heads High, be closer to the Prophets and be one of those that despite all circumstance and difficulties, I never sinned. Whilst those who sinned and repented will still have fear of their acts being revealed so perhaps it may depends on quality of repentance and how much effort that person was/could've put into it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 3/23/2021 at 7:02 PM, Guest Bro said:

if the nonreligious youth have their fun

What fun?

Parties, clubs, drinking, free sex, binging on films and food.  All these things look like fun but are they really?  Some very imidiate consiquences like hangovers being sick on the pavement, broken hearts and lack of trust in people.  Longer term consiquenses like obisity and anorexia, broken families, adiction and debt.  Spiritual consiquences like inner emptiness, a deep longing for something real and lasting and a lack of peace with God and the world.

Sorry I don't see fun here.

On 3/23/2021 at 7:02 PM, Guest Bro said:

religious youth gain from being good muslims and following all the rules

What about being religious and following the rules?  Is this better?  Often following the rules can become a burden, being religious can be a set of dos and don'ts creating an atmosphere of fear, doubt and opression.  Am I doing enough?  Have I done the 'right' things?  Am I praying, fasting, giving in the right way and at the corect times?  Always thinking I must do more.  An inner feeling of failiour and inadequacy.

So maybe religiously following the rules doesn't work either.

Is there another way?  Is there a door to peace with God and people?  A way into life in all it's fullness?  A freedom from fear, guilt and shame.  A source of real inner joy that satisfies even in the hard times?  And most of all an intimate relationship with our loving father God who accepts us and gives us meaning and value?

I would suggest that finding this treasure is really worth while.  Everything else fades into shades of gray when this is your daily experience.

Jesus the Messiah told a story about a person who found some treasure in a field.  So he went and sold everything he had so he could buy the field and own the treasure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

2 people from my tafe(College) died couple years back. 1 overdosed and 1 got stabbed. Both probably thought they will have fun and live forever and repent later. Don’t worry about others and how you think they have fun. Stay on the right path and people will respect you one day realising they wasted their time having so called fun if they survive lol. 
 

 

now I’m sure someone who stays away from haram will gain more deeds but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is merciful to the ones who deserve and asked as well. If you did something out of ignorance and sincerely repented then you will be forgiven in sha Allah but having the mentality that I’ll have fun now and just repent later is like mocking Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

This might not resonate with the youth, it definitely would not if I said this to my past self, but God's rules are not there for no reason. They get you out of trouble and also put you in a better place. When I look back to my life's mistakes or my most embarrassing moments, I noticed that in the overwhelming majority of the cases I was doing something that God wouldn't have liked. That if I avoided haram, those things wouldn't have happened in the first place. Conversely, I noticed that the more religious I become, the more I start to care about the important things in life like education, family, respecting others, ambition, etc. If you're a sinful person your mind doesn't think like that, all you'd want to do is play. 

 

In addition to this, I know now that there is no happiness in this world, you will never have your fill. All this world can give you is pleasure, but it can never give you happiness, satisfaction, or contentment. A 600lb glutton doesn't one day eat a burger and say "Okay now I'm satisfied, I've had enough food." Billionaires don't really say "Okay that's enough money, I've made more than enough to last me 50 lifetimes of pleasure." Or a playboy doesn't say "Yeah I used to be a sex addict, but after the 500th woman I was satisfied and had my fill." 

On the contrary, they will want even more. They're like a hamster running in a wheel. 

So my main points are that being a good Muslim will keep you out of trouble, put you in a better place, and there's no point in seeking a happy time in this world because you won't find it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 3/24/2021 at 5:32 AM, Guest Bro said:

What benefit do religious youth gain from being good muslims and following all the rules, if the nonreligious youth have their fun and then do sincere repentance and receive God's mercy? Is there any distinction between people who are forgiven for their major sins, and people who never committed those sins at all? 

'Sincere repentance' involves not reverting to the state of sinning. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 's clemency is not a licence to keep sinning. If a sinner were to repent sincerely, he would see the very act of sinning as an ugly, unpleasant deed, and not something 'fun'. He/She will recoil at the very thought of sinning. If someone doesn't feel this remorse and horror at the prospect of sinning, they haven't repented sincerely at all.

Also, Ahādīth narrate that even if you take a minor (saghīrāh) sin lightly, it displeases Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) so much that the punishment for that sin is increased to that for a major (kabīrāh) sin- This is  specifically for those who think that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 's mercy is a licence to sin- "Yes, I keep sinning, so what!? Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the Oft-Forgiving one, and in the end He'll pardon my sins; Rasoolallah (S) will intercede on my behalf; so let me go ahead and have fun for now!" No, it doesn't work this way.

Also, the status of the one who sinned but repented, and the one who never sinned is never the same. Although by no means a legitimate comparison, this is the reason why the Māsoomīn (عليه السلام) are exalted above the rest of the humankind.

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
On 3/23/2021 at 8:02 PM, Guest Bro said:

What benefit do religious youth gain from being good muslims and following all the rules, if the nonreligious youth have their fun and then do sincere repentance and receive God's mercy? Is there any distinction between people who are forgiven for their major sins, and people who never committed those sins at all? 

The main thing you gain by following the rules is safety from the fire (an nar) and a reward in Paradise, provided the actions are guided by firm belief in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Resalat of Rasoulallah Muhammad Al Mustafa(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and Imam of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). If that is not enough to convince someone, I'm not sure what is. 

When you are young, you believe that you have an infinite amount of time in front of you to do whatever you want, and then repent afterward. This is, of course, and illusion, in two ways. The first, obvious way is that you could die at any moment, and you have no control over that. Out of my 5 good friends in High School, 2 died before they reached 25, one was killed in an accident at his job, the other was murdered. Neither one of them could have imagined, even a few minutes before they were going to die, that this would be their end. Most people who have reached the age of 30 have had someone or multiple people close to  them pass away. So you never know in what moment you are going to die, and in what state you will be in when you pass away. Many people have in their mind that they are going to sin and make repentance, then die in the state of sin before they get a chance to make the repentance. What do you think will happen when you stand before Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in a state of sin ? 

The second illusion is believing that sin doesn't affect your will to repent. It definitely does. The more you sin, the more the sin becomes small in your eyes. The more you do it and the less you feel the need to repent for it (because you think of it as a very minor thing). You look at people who do major crimes like rape, murder, etc. None of them started out life as a rapist or a murderer. Everyone was born muslim. Then they did a small sin, failed to repent for it, it became small in their eyes, so they did a bigger sin, didn't repent, it became small in their eyes. They were probably doing this for many years, before it got to the point where even these types of heinous crimes like murder and rape looked small in their eyes. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) protect us from ever getting to that point. So this is what the urafa call the 'corrosive effects of sin'. The main effect of sin is that it corrodes our will to repent. So gradually, we become more and more sinful without the will to repent. If someone reaches that state, they could live to be 100, go on sinning the whole time, and never feel the need to repent. The only thing that will stop them from sinning at that point is death, which eventually happens to everyone. So the more you sin, the less you feel the need to repent. So these are two good reasons not to sin in your youth and wait till you are older to repent. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

It depends on your perspective of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). If one has love, thankfulness and gratefulness towards Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), then it is logical that we strive to worship Him as He ought to be worshipped.

If one considers that they can simply disobey Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) throughout their lives and somehow predict the right moment to repent to Him before dying, then I question if they are really worshipping Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), or is it actually just the prospect of salvation that they are worshipping (considering Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as a mere accessory, naudhubillah, to gain last minute salvation). 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
On 3/23/2021 at 9:02 PM, Guest Bro said:

What benefit do religious youth gain from being good muslims and following all the rules, if the nonreligious youth have their fun and then do sincere repentance and receive God's mercy? Is there any distinction between people who are forgiven for their major sins, and people who never committed those sins at all? 

The distinction is their location on the صراط المستقیم، The Right Path.

Those who've been good, with fewer sins, are ahead on the path of being closer to God. 

Sins either slow you down or stop you in this path. And if one continues to sin without remorse or repentance, they'll be taken off the path. 

Repentance gives a chance to the repenter to return to the path and to be placed on it again. 

In the hereafter, when we move station by station, on our way to paradise, it's definitely quite important where we were on the path in this world. The more ahead and closer to God in this world, the shorter the length to paradise in the next world. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

The reason is that we could become that what make us human and not animal. What are the things that make us different from all other creations. It is the intellect and Aqklahq. Practising these two things make us live an human life. These are the two things that make us perfect. The prophets were master with intellect and akhlaq and that is what made their faith perfect and closest to God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as-salaamu alaikum,

 

I started reading Qalbe Saleem (Immaculate Conscience) by Ayatollah Sayed Abdul Husain Dasghaib Shirazi. The book focuses on spiritual disease and how to overcome. From the introduction alone, it sets a clear explanation that spiritual disease of the heart leads to unhappiness. Living a hedonistic does not make you happy. I know this personally. I have been miserable and only Allah seems to satisfy my heart. Albeit I have a long way to go, but the joys of living without discipline are an illusion in my humble opinion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
1 hour ago, MexicanVato said:

as-salaamu alaikum,

 

I started reading Qalbe Saleem (Immaculate Conscience) by Ayatollah Sayed Abdul Husain Dasghaib Shirazi. The book focuses on spiritual disease and how to overcome. From the introduction alone, it sets a clear explanation that spiritual disease of the heart leads to unhappiness. Living a hedonistic does not make you happy. I know this personally. I have been miserable and only Allah seems to satisfy my heart. Albeit I have a long way to go, but the joys of living without discipline are an illusion in my humble opinion. 

Walaikum Salaam,

Yes I feel a hedonistic life makes you feel empty spiritually and lacking any purpose or direction. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) make us live a life where we are constantly drawn towards Him. Aameen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

if you are religious for the sake of dunya then your faith is worth nothing. Why would you see any value in being a slave to your desires(in actuality it's shaytaans desires). These empty lifestyles with no morals is one of the reasons people are so depressed today (one of the reasons not all). You should ask this question to yourself: What do i gain from this? The answer will be that you dont gain anything but rather it takes away from you.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...
  • Advanced Member

The Prophet (S) said, 'The superiority of a young worshipper who worships Allah in his youth over an old man who worships after he has grown old, is as the superiority of the prophets over the rest of people.’[Kanz al-’Ummal, no. 43059] 

Edited by Uni Student
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
On 3/23/2021 at 8:02 PM, Guest Bro said:

What benefit do religious youth gain from being good muslims and following all the rules, if the nonreligious youth have their fun and then do sincere repentance and receive God's mercy? Is there any distinction between people who are forgiven for their major sins, and people who never committed those sins at all? 

The more you do sins, the more difficult it is to give them up. If something becomes a habit, either a good one or a bad one, the chance that you will be able to give up that habit is very small. Now multiply that by the number of sins someone does, and you can see why it pays off to not get into doing sins in the first place. Say someone spends their youth watching porn, drinking alcohol, doing zina, going to clubs, listening to haram music, etc. The chances that they will stop doing all those sins, once they become habits, is extremely, extremely small. They may overcome some of them, but keep doing others, which will then lead them back to doing the other ones, in a vicious cycle which will likely end in hell. Like was said above, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) may forgive him/her, but he/she will have to deal with the consequences of the sin (previous).

There are some people who give up sins entirely and become a good person after spending their youth doing these things. This is the exception, not the rule. You don't want to do something, hoping you will be the exception. It usually doesn't turn out well. So the best and most safest way is to never get into those habits to begin with. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Veteran Member

Not gonna lie, I've always been the "good" person.  Now it appears most have "had their fun" when they were younger, and I feel a little left out.  I'm not quite sure I have any regret at this point, but we'll see how life goes.  If life goes well, then it led to something good.  But if life doesn't go well, then I think I will have definitely regretted it - especially seeing as how those people had their fun and appear to have settled down before I have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 12/16/2021 at 2:47 AM, coldcow said:

Not gonna lie, I've always been the "good" person.  Now it appears most have "had their fun" when they were younger, and I feel a little left out.  I'm not quite sure I have any regret at this point, but we'll see how life goes.  If life goes well, then it led to something good.  But if life doesn't go well, then I think I will have definitely regretted it - especially seeing as how those people had their fun and appear to have settled down before I have.

Perhaps you need to start finding enjoyable "good" things to do, or start enjoying the good things you do.:verryhappy:

I remember at campus some kids would be like, how do you muslims even have fun! you can't even drink! 

Meanwhile, I found walking down from class to the dorms fun, i enjoyed my cartoon watching sessions, i enjoyed taking part in the muslim union activities in the background, etc. I have had various hobbies over the years. Recently I have taken up crochet again so I am relearning basics to teach my kids. 

If settling down is what you need to do, then do it. Don't overthink stuff, and importantly, start having fun with being you. Islam is not religion of doom and gloom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
On 12/15/2021 at 6:47 PM, coldcow said:

Not gonna lie, I've always been the "good" person.  Now it appears most have "had their fun" when they were younger, and I feel a little left out.  I'm not quite sure I have any regret at this point, but we'll see how life goes.  If life goes well, then it led to something good.  But if life doesn't go well, then I think I will have definitely regretted it - especially seeing as how those people had their fun and appear to have settled down before I have.

First, when they tell you about their 'fun', they are giving you their perspective. They are giving you the facts they want to share with you and leaving out other things. People rarely tell you things without some kind of motive behind it, i.e. something they might gain by convincing you of something. Its a sales pitch. They're sell you their idea and using their 'fun' as a way to back up their point. 

For example, if someone tells you 'Oh yeah bro, I got drunk, and did x,y,z. It was so fun and nothing bad happened', they are trying to convince you to join their 'team' of people who call themselves Muslims but yet engage in this activity. So they will tell you certain things and leave other things out. If they tell you 'Yeah, I used to do that in the past but I gave it up because of x,y,z', then either 1. They are trying to convince you that they are a good person, reformed, MashahAllah or 2. They are trying to use an example from their life to motivate you to stay on Haqq and not engage in this activity, i.e. Amr Bil Maroof, wa Nahiya Al Munkhar. The last motivation is the only correct one for sharing these 'experiences' 

Whatever the motivation might be, don't think that they are giving you the whole story and the whole picture. I can tell you as someone with a 'past', who did these things before I became Muslims that it is maybe 2% fun and 98% misery. The fun is always in the beginning, when things are new to you and you haven't yet felt the consequences of engaging in this lifestyle. The misery comes later when you begin to feel the consequences, realize that you have done bad things, but are then addicted to this lifestyle and don't think there is a way out. You feel trapped and hopeless. That is the misery part. So you might have missed the 2% fun, but you also missed the 98% misery. Not a bad deal for you, in fact. You should consider yourself lucky. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
2 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Whatever the motivation might be, don't think that they are giving you the whole story and the whole picture. I can tell you as someone with a 'past', who did these things before I became Muslims that it is maybe 2% fun and 98% misery. The fun is always in the beginning, when things are new to you and you haven't yet felt the consequences of engaging in this lifestyle. The misery comes later when you begin to feel the consequences, realize that you have done bad things, but are then addicted to this lifestyle and don't think there is a way out. You feel trapped and hopeless. That is the misery part. So you might have missed the 2% fun, but you also missed the 98% misery. Not a bad deal for you, in fact. You should consider yourself lucky. 

Thank you for your post.  This certainly gives perspective.  I recently was talking with a girl, who I applaud for her honesty, but she informed me that she has had multiple muslim boyfriends in the past, and has been intimate with many of them.  She also informed me that this is quite normal among muslim girls/boys she knows.  This was a bit of a gut punch to me, as someone who has remained chaste for so long (in my 30's).  In my opinion a person's past is their past, and I remained chaste for my religious beliefs.  But I also did it for my future spouse.  Without sounding arrogant, I'm considered to be quite good looking, and have had many people express interest in dating me.  In my mind, I couldn't do it because I don't think I could forgive myself if my future spouse fought the same battles but didn't cave in, but I did.

Come to find out it appears many have given in.  It has just been eating at me quite a bit.  Like, if that's the new norm, and I'm living the old fashioned way, what have I missed out on?

Again, thank you for your post.  I'm slowly recovering from the shock of what I heard.  If nothing else, it has renewed my motivation to hurry up and find someone to marry, even if it means sacrificing a little bit of work.

 

Also, would like to add, I'm not specifically even wondering if I missed out on physical intimacy.  But even just having someone to be emotionally close with.

Edited by coldcow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
19 hours ago, coldcow said:

Thank you for your post.  This certainly gives perspective.  I recently was talking with a girl, who I applaud for her honesty, but she informed me that she has had multiple muslim boyfriends in the past, and has been intimate with many of them.  She also informed me that this is quite normal among muslim girls/boys she knows.  This was a bit of a gut punch to me, as someone who has remained chaste for so long (in my 30's).  In my opinion a person's past is their past, and I remained chaste for my religious beliefs.  But I also did it for my future spouse.  Without sounding arrogant, I'm considered to be quite good looking, and have had many people express interest in dating me.  In my mind, I couldn't do it because I don't think I could forgive myself if my future spouse fought the same battles but didn't cave in, but I did.

Come to find out it appears many have given in.  It has just been eating at me quite a bit.  Like, if that's the new norm, and I'm living the old fashioned way, what have I missed out on?

Again, thank you for your post.  I'm slowly recovering from the shock of what I heard.  If nothing else, it has renewed my motivation to hurry up and find someone to marry, even if it means sacrificing a little bit of work.

 

Also, would like to add, I'm not specifically even wondering if I missed out on physical intimacy.  But even just having someone to be emotionally close with.

I think I can give you some perspective on the last part. As someone who had some (I don't know if I would call it 'many') short term / muta relationships before marriage and now being married to the same spouse, and only her, for many years. The physical intimacy is nice, and I definitely couldn't do without that, but that is not the main thing that keeps couples together. If that is all the relationship is about, physical intimacy only, the relationship is doomed to end soon, in a way that is very much not satisfying to both parties. That is why you see these celebrities, models, famous people, etc getting into relationships and going thru spouses right and left. They get together for the physical intimacy, maybe also some money or bump up in their social media rankings, but that is all it is about. They have nothing else besides that to give, because they are corrupt (most of them) and don't have any kind of spiritual depth, so they can never share that with anyone. So this relationship becomes quickly unsatisfying and then they begin looking for a new one, thinking that this time it will , 'be different' but it won't be. 

The physical intimacy is only a stepping stone or a first stage to develop the 'real' part of the relationship which is the trust, and deep emotional and spiritual connection with a spouse. This is what people are actually looking for, and not the physical part only. Men and women were created in such a way by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), so that they could develop this type of a relationship. There are degrees of this type of relationship, and the more humble and trusting the spouses are, and the better the relationship they have with their Creator, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), they higher degrees they will have of this type of relationship. I am not saying that I am in this type of relationship at a high level, and I still have a long way to go, but I can see now the potential for having this type of relationship at a high level. I can see where the goal posts are, even though I am still at a distance from them. 

The only way to get this type of relationship is to actually get married. Don't worry about the fact that you are in your 30s. There is no 'time limit' attached to developing this. 

As far as Muslims having relationships like what you describe, has become common. The main reason for this, and I have said this many, many times, is that parents and the community have made halal marriage so difficult by placing so many obstacles in the way, that brothers and sisters, unless they are extremely pious (and you might be one of those, congratulations for this if you are) see no other way to satisfy their natural desires other than this. The expectations around marriage have become completely out of control and not at all in line with what the religion of Islam teaches. When that becomes the case, what you are seeing is the consequence. As Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) said, 'When one door to halal is closed, one thousand doors to haram open up'. So you are seeing what happens when the 1000 doors to haram open up. Of course that doesn't mean that you are now compelled to walk thru one of those doors, and you can still practice sabr, but it becomes extremely difficult in that case. Salam. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

As far as Muslims having relationships like what you describe, has become common. The main reason for this, and I have said this many, many times, is that parents and the community have made halal marriage so difficult by placing so many obstacles in the way, that brothers and sisters, unless they are extremely pious (and you might be one of those, congratulations for this if you are) see no other way to satisfy their natural desires other than this. 

Although this is true, I would say that from observations of my community, halal marriage being difficult it is not the main cause of this issue. I know of too many boys that are 13-16 that are committing zina, and historically marriage has never really been an option for boys of this age range. Just a few generations back, it seems to me that boys at this age were neither married nor were they committing zina at such a widespread scale like the epidemic it is right now. I think its just a general moral decline of society that is influencing  young Muslims to get into this  behavior, rather than lack of marriage which has never been available for the age range mentioned above 

Edited by Uni Student
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
13 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

The physical intimacy is nice, and I definitely couldn't do without that, but that is not the main thing that keeps couples together.

I agree.  I think I may have phrased it poorly, but in my last sentence I basically meant that it's really the emotional intimacy and closeness that I feel really want, not just the physical.

13 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

parents and the community have made halal marriage so difficult by placing so many obstacles in the way, that brothers and sisters, unless they are extremely pious (and you might be one of those, congratulations for this if you are) see no other way to satisfy their natural desires other than this.

I agree, and I'm coming to see that myself now.  Didn't think it was that big of an issue to remain chaste till marriage, but when marriage doesn't come early, it becomes more difficult, that's for sure.  At some point some people reach a breaking point.  Luckily, i don't think I'm there yet.  

I'm slowly recovering from what I was told and feel like things will be better, and I'll InshaAllah be married by the end of 2022, by God's will and grace.  

7 hours ago, Uni Student said:

I know of too many boys that are 13-16 that are committing zina,

Muslim boys?  I remember a pakistani/indian girl/boy in high school who were going out, and they would be all over each other in the hallways, in some ways worse than the american kids.  It was gross.  Of course a few years later I think I saw her in hijab or something.  I dunno what all happened between them, but they didn't end up together long term.

I am surprised at age 13 though.  That's really early.  Like they don't even have anywhere to go private, unlike those in college away from home.  But, I dunno.  Maybe I'm too naive and innocent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
11 hours ago, Uni Student said:

I think its just a general moral decline of society that is influencing  young Muslims to get into this  behavior, rather than lack of marriage...

I agree.

As per Islamic law, the "lack of marriage" can never be an excuse for any type of sexual sin at all. 

Even if a person is in an extremely unusual situation in which he is forced to remain unmarried for his entire life despite having the desire for marriage, he will still not be able to justify committing even a single sexual sin of any sort. 

For example, consider a hypothetical (but possible) situation in which a young man somehow gets stranded on a deserted, uninhabited Island in the middle of some ocean with no chance of ever being rescued. He will be staying his entire life on the island. That means he will never be able to get any opportunity to fulfill his natural needs for physical intimacy. Yet, he would still be able to commit one type of sexual sin by using his own hand. 

Will Islamic law ever allow him to do this sin? Would he be given a leeway, or an excuse for it? Would he have a valid reason to indulge in this sin at some point? Could the law say that if he is still stranded after such and such number of years, he would then be allowed to sin once and then again after another few years? 

Absolutely not. In fact, Islamic law would require that even if he can never get married, he should still never do any sin. If the stranded man commits the sin even once, then according to the law, he would have crossed the limits - his sexual desire would be considered excessive and too much. He would be a culprit and a sinner for satisfying himself even once in his life. 

From this, we can understand that in Islamic law, fulfillment of sexual desire is never an absolute necessity. Nobody can justify that he sinned because of his natural needs, because the desire is not meant to be so high in the first place that one would have to sin. Rather, a man should be able to reduce his sexual desire to such a low level, that even if he gets stranded on an island with no chance of ever being rescued, he should still never commit any sexual sin that he has the ability to indulge in while being alone. 

Perhaps that is also why marriage is not technically obligatory - which means that if someone is unable to ever get married or for some reason must stay single, it is expected and required from him that he would stay absolutely chaste for his entire life.

If this hadn't been humanly possible, then marriage would have been obligatory for every single human being. Because that isn't the case, it means humans can be capable of suppressing their natural desires to such low levels that they can remain sexually sinless, if the situation so demands. Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) is an example for us. He remained celibate all his life - showing to us that even if sexual desire remains unfullfilled for an entire life, that is not a valid enough excuse to sin. 

If Islam does not allow a man to sin even once despite him being stranded on a remote Island for ever - then how would it allow normal human beings like us to indulge in all sorts of sins that we do indulge in? 

It means that we should realize that just because someone doesn't have an opportunity to fulfill his desire in any halal way, that doesn't at all give him any justification, reason, excuse, leeway, relaxation to fulfill it in any haram way...and the reason for this is that the natural desire isn't meant to be so high that one would need to sin. This is my opinion; not passing a verdict but just expressing my views. 

Edited by Maisam Haider
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
30 minutes ago, Maisam Haider said:

I agree.

As per Islamic law, the "lack of marriage" can never be an excuse for any type of sexual sin at all. 

Even if a person is in an extremely unusual situation in which he is forced to remain unmarried for his entire life despite having the desire for marriage, he will still not be able to justify committing even a single sexual sin of any sort. 

For example, consider a hypothetical (but possible) situation in which a young man somehow gets stranded on a deserted, uninhabited Island in the middle of some ocean with no chance of ever being rescued. He will be staying his entire life on the island. That means he will never be able to get any opportunity to fulfill his natural needs for physical intimacy. Yet, he would still be able to commit one type of sexual sin by using his own hand. 

Will Islamic law ever allow him to do this sin? Would he be given a leeway, or an excuse for it? Would he have a valid reason to indulge in this sin at some point? Could the law say that if he is still stranded after such and such number of years, he would then be allowed to sin once and then again after another few years? 

Absolutely not. In fact, Islamic law would require that even if he can never get married, he should still never do any sin. If the stranded man commits the sin even once, then according to the law, he would have crossed the limits - his sexual desire would be considered excessive and too much. He would be a culprit and a sinner for satisfying himself even once in his life. 

From this, we can understand that in Islamic law, fulfillment of sexual desire is never an absolute necessity. Nobody can justify that he sinned because of his natural needs, because the desire is not meant to be so high in the first place that one would have to sin. Rather, a man should be able to reduce his sexual desire to such a low level, that even if he gets stranded on an island with no chance of ever being rescued, he should still never commit any sexual sin that he has the ability to indulge in while being alone. 

Perhaps that is also why marriage is not technically obligatory - which means that if someone is unable to ever get married or for some reason must stay single, it is expected and required from him that he would stay absolutely chaste for his entire life.

If this hadn't been humanly possible, then marriage would have been obligatory for every single human being. Because that isn't the case, it means humans can be capable of suppressing their natural desires to such low levels that they can remain sexually sinless, if the situation so demands. Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) is an example for us. He remained celibate all his life - showing to us that even if sexual desire remains unfullfilled for an entire life, that is not a valid enough excuse to sin. 

If Islam does not allow a man to sin even once despite him being stranded on a remote Island for ever - then how would it allow normal human beings like us to indulge in all sorts of sins that we do indulge in? 

It means that we should realize that just because someone doesn't have an opportunity to fulfill his desire in any halal way, that doesn't at all give him any justification, reason, excuse, leeway, relaxation to fulfill it in any haram way...and the reason for this is that the natural desire isn't meant to be so high that one would need to sin. This is my opinion; not passing a verdict but just expressing my views. 

Brother i think I’ve read your speech about men stranded on islands on about 5 different threads now :furious: lol kidding

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, coldcow said:

Didn't think it was that big of an issue to remain chaste till marriage, but when marriage doesn't come early, it becomes more difficult, that's for sure.  At some point some people reach a breaking point. 

But is someone has reached a breaking point and then falls into sin, then that's his own fault - as per Islamic law.

The parents/society may be blamed for this as well, but the sinner himself would be responsible for letting his sexual desire go so high that he reached the breaking point. 

If someone is unable to get married, he is expected and required by Islamic law to stay chaste - and there is no time limit for this. Even if that means staying chaste for years or decades or even an entire life, the person must remain chaste. Suppose a person serving a life sentence in prison commits a single sexual sin in his life...he would not be able to justify even that one sin. Allah may decide to forgive him considering his special circumstances, but he would still actually be a sinner for having a sexual desire so high that he sinned. 

That means the sexual desire is not designed to be so high that one would be forced to sin, even if marriage never takes place. If someone sins, he has crossed the limits set by Islam by letting his desire becoming excessive. 

Edited by Maisam Haider
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
15 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

But is someone has reached a breaking point and then falls into sin, then that's his own fault - as per Islamic law.

The parents/society may be blamed for this as well, but the sinner himself would be responsible for letting his sexual desire go so high that he reached the breaking point. 

I don't disagree.  But not everyone has the same level of will power.  No one is perfect, no matter how hard we try.  We should all strive to follow the Qu'ran and sunnah to the best of our abilities.  And if we fail at some point, it's never too late to repent and attempt to get back on the right path.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
9 hours ago, coldcow said:

We should all strive to follow the Qu'ran and sunnah to the best of our abilities. 

Salam "we should strive to follow the Qu'ran and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) to the best of our abilities."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
On 12/19/2021 at 9:32 PM, coldcow said:

 

I agree, and I'm coming to see that myself now.  Didn't think it was that big of an issue to remain chaste till marriage, but when marriage doesn't come early, it becomes more difficult, that's for sure.  At some point some people reach a breaking point.  Luckily, i don't think I'm there yet.  

Now that I am looking back at my answer, I think I may have worded it wrong. The goal of all youth should be to be extremely pious and try to reach close to the level of Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) as a youth or Fatima Zahra((عليه السلام)). We will never get close to that level, but that should be our goal. If that is the goal, and someone is going toward that goal, however slowly, then they are on the Sirat Al Mustakeem. Like the phrase goes, 'If you aim for the stars you might get to the moon'. The stars are obviously much further away than the moon and impossible to reach, as of today, but the moon is within reach if someone strives hard enough. 

Just because the community erects roadblocks and barriers for marriage doesn't give those youth (and sometimes more mature people unfortunately) an excuse to do zina. Zina is still haram, and there is a punishment attached to it in this world and the next. The punishment will be more or less severe depending on the circumstances. At the same time, if someone is on the Sirat Al Mustakeem and they happen to slip up and make a mistake, and do zina, they will plead with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to forgive them, and they will eventually be forgiven, InShahAllah, and they have a chance to reform their lives and live the remainder of their life in a good position. The difficult circumstances for marriage doesn't give them an excuse to violate the Sharia, I just wanted to be clear about that so that noone misunderstands my response. 

My point was that one of the main causes of people doing zina is the fact that the Muslim community, not the non muslim community, erects barrier after barrier in the face of youth who are attempting to do the correct thing and get married in their youth. If the community looked inward for a few moments and realized this and attempted to remove those barriers so that it would be easier for the youth to seek halal options to deal with their desire, there would be alot less haram going on, and we would have a better and stronger community. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Reading through the comments on this thread there is so much about what WE have to do to be 'good' or to live as God wants.  We have to avoid this and that and become more pious and religious.  We have to strive.

What about God's role in the change in life style?  What about God at work to change our hearts and minds?

I have faced many of the challenges mentioned here and remained celibate till I married in my late 30s.  God wants us to reserve sexual intimacy for our life long marriage partner.  That is his ideal for personal fulfilment and for the stability of society.  If that is the case he will give the srength to us so we can walk that road.

At an early age I found doing religious actions wasn't helping me, so I called to God through Jesus the Messiah for the power of his transforming and life giving Spirit to work in my heart and mind to purify my thoughts and actions.  God has been at work through out my life since then helping me to face temptation and to be victorious.  I call on God for help and tell him about my dissapointments and frustrations and I find he helps and encourages me.  I am challenged by reading his words of direction in the Scriptures and know that he will help me to live a life worthy of a friend of God.  Here is a prayer I apply to myself knowing that the more I love God, the more my life will become like the one I love and who loves me and gave himself that I might live for him.  Yes, I still need to strive - but with God's help.  I am not alone.

Injil - Philippians chapter 1 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...