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In the Name of God بسم الله

Sunni scholars who have denied the Seeing of Allah

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uar786

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. This is my first post so dont be harsh

I come from a sunni background and have been doing research on the seeing of Allah in the afterlife. I have found they are some sunnis who rejecting the seeing of Allah in the next life which i will present later on . but first i want to give summary of the issue .

They are 3 opinions regarding seeing Allah in islam

1.)  view of Wahabis = Allah is in a place/direction and will be seen  

2.)  = view of asharis/maturidis (most sunnis) = Allah is free from place and direction but will be seen

3.)  view of Shias, mutazila and ibadis =  Allah cannot be seen 

note: regarding the prophet peace be upon him seeing Allah in the mi'raaj there is ikhitlaf amongst sunnis. but All (?)  agree Allah will be seen in next life 

 

the main verse used as proof is  75:23    إِلَى رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ)  

 

those who argue Allah can be seen say this verse means looking towards their lord .

those who argue Allah can be seen say this verse is MUHKAM (clear verse with one meaning )

 

Those who argue that Allah cant be seen argue that نَاظِرَةٌ here means waiting/anticipating for reward

those who argue Allah cant be seen say this verse is  not MUHKAM (clear verse with one meaning )

 

The second main verse used as proof is 6:103    لَّا تُدْرِكُهُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرُ وَهُوَ يُدْرِكُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرَ ۖ    

 

those who argue Allah can be seen say this verse is  not MUHKAM (clear verse with one meaning )

Those who argue Allah can be seen say this verse negates idraak (complete comprehension) but not vision 

 

those who argue Allah cant be seen say this verse is   MUHKAM (clear verse with one meaning )

Those who argue Allah cant be seen say this verse negates vision completely 

 

The third verse main verse used as proof is   7:143 where Musa upon him be peace asks to see Allah and Allah says  لَنْ تَرَانِي

those who argue Allah can be seen say that Musa upon him be peace asking to see Allah  is proof it is possible to see Allah.  As a prophet would never ask for something impossible as they cant be ignorant about tawheed

Those who argue Allah can be seen say That because the vision was being connected to the mountain , seeing Allah is possible

Those who argue Allah can be seen argue  لَنْ تَرَانِي is not a eternal negation

 

Those who argue Allah cant be seen say that Musa upon him be peace knew it was impossible to see Allah but was asking on behalf of his people in order to refute the understanding that  Allah can be seen 

Those who argue that Allah cant be seen say that the mountain was destroyed so this is proof Allah cant be Seen 

Those who argue Allah cant be seen argue  لَنْ تَرَانِي is  a eternal negation.

 

this is my first post . i will then further analyse the verses above to see which side are correct .

 

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6 hours ago, uar786 said:

view of Shias, mutazila and ibadis =  Allah cannot be seen 

This is not the view of Shias.

According to us, we can see Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Even a blind can also see Him. 

And why should we not see Him when He is Al-Zahir!

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Aoa Bro,

Remember 'seeing' has nothing to do with physical seeing as Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) cannot be captured by anything, Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is seen by internal vision, the more pure a person's spiritual state the more they 'see' Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). In a nutshell this can't really be explained, it can only be experienced. Hope this helps.

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22 hours ago, uar786 said:

3.)  view of Shias, mutazila and ibadis =  Allah cannot be seen

:salam:

Quote

Seeing Allah (Ru’yat Allah)
The Shi‘a school of thought absolutely denies what others say that Allah can be seen since He has no image or body. However, other schools of thought accept several hadiths that not only claim that Allah has physical parts; but also that He will be seen on the Day of Judgment like any other objects are seen. They also claim that Allah occupies space and travels from one place to another. The basis for these arguments are hadiths and not the Noble Qur’an. We mention some of these narrations:

Our Lord, before creating His creation, did not have anything with Him, underneath Him was air, above Him was air, then he created His throne on water.1

(On the Day of Judgment) It will be said to Hell, ‘Are you filled up?’ It will say, ‘Are there any more?’ So the Lord, Blessed and Exalted is He will put His leg into it, whereupon it will say, ‘Now I am full!’2

We were sitting with the Messenger of Allah when he looked at the full moon and observed, ‘You shall see your Lord as you are seeing this moon, and you will not be harmed by seeing Him.’3

The last narration, in particular, asserts that people will see Allah with their physical eyes, regardless of whether they are among the good or among the hypocrites. Seeing Allah means that Allah must have a physical body and occupy physical space. Imam Malik ibn Anas and Imam al-Shafi΄i accept this opinion, and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal considers this belief among the fundamentals of the religion.

The opinion of the followers of the Ahlul Bayt is that seeing Allah is impossible. This view is supported by the Noble Qur’an and logic. The Noble Qur’an says clearly, “No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision.”4 Furthermore, there are multiple examples of people asking to see Allah and the response of Allah, the Exalted was:

 

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 Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq, the sixth Imam, was once asked, “will Allah be seen on the Day of Resurrection?His answer was, “May He be exalted and glorified from that! The eyes can only reach an object which has color and shape, but Allah, the Exalted, is the Creator of colors and shapes.”

Similar aspects of Allah, such as His “hand” or His “face” are referred to as allegorically. The “Hand of Allah” refers to His power and might, and “His Face” refers to different things. The first step in the Oneness and Monotheism of Allah is the understanding that Allah is not a body and will never be seen and that He is unique, as the Noble Qur’an states, “There is nothing like Him.”13

 

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Imam ‘Ali was asked by one of his companions, Tha΄lab al-Yamani whether he had seen his Lord. Imam ‘Ali replied, “How can I worship something that I do not see?” When asked how he saw Him, Imam ‘Ali replied, “Eyes do not reach Him with physical sight, but the hearts reach Him with the realities of belief.”12 

https://www.al-islam.org/inquiries-about-shia-islam-sayyid-moustafa-al-qazwini/seeing-allah-ruyat-allah

Who is #God? (Vision of #Allah) - by Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام)

 

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on the impermissibility of seeing the Essence of Allah, Quran states:

"Visions can not reach Him while He reaches to all visions. (6:103)" The word "visions" is not limited to solely seeing by eyes. It covers all types of vision and perception as it is used in a plural form in the verse. On the impossibility of seeing, visualizing, or imagining Allah, Abu Hashim al-Ja'fari narrated:

About the verse "Visions can not reach Him and He grasps all visions (6:103)", Imam al-Ridha (عليه السلام) said: "O Aba Hashim! The thinking/imagination of the mind is more delicate than the vision of the eyes. By your imagination, you can reach to India and other places that you have not entered and your eyes have not reached. Thus, when the thinking of minds can not reach Him, then how could the visions of eyes do so?"

al-Kafi, v1, p99, Hadith #11
Kitab al-Tawhid, p113, Hadith #12
Bihar al-Anwar, v4, p39, Hadith #17
Similarly, he narrated:

Imam al-Ridha (عليه السلام) said: "Verily the imagination of the mind is more (powerful) than the vision of the eyes. Thus (the verse means) minds can not reach Him, and He reaches to all minds."

al-Kafi, v1, p98, Hadith #10
Kitab al-Tawhid, p112, Hadith #11
Bihar al-Anwar, v4, p39, Hadith #16

https://www.shiavault.com/books/a-shi-ite-encyclopedia-chapter-9/chapters/5-seeing-allah/

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15 hours ago, uar786 said:

i am referring to the vision of Allah in the next life which the shia deny.

When we confirm that we can "see" Him here in this world, we can see Him in hereafter too. 

15 hours ago, uar786 said:

i am not talking about seeing Allah in a metaphorical sense .

:) You really need huge huge eyes to capture the One who shuts the mouth of hell by putting his leg onto it. 

By the way, how many verses are there in Quran which starts with الم تر (alam tara)?

أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللّهَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ بِالْحقِّ إِن يَشَأْ يُذْهِبْكُمْ وَيَأْتِ بِخَلْقٍ جَدِيدٍ

14:19 

أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّا أَرْسَلْنَا الشَّيَاطِينَ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ تَؤُزُّهُمْ أَزًّا

19:83 

أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَسْجُدُ لَهُ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَن فِي الْأَرْضِ وَالشَّمْسُ وَالْقَمَرُ وَالنُّجُومُ وَالْجِبَالُ وَالشَّجَرُ وَالدَّوَابُّ وَكَثِيرٌ مِّنَ النَّاسِ وَكَثِيرٌ حَقَّ عَلَيْهِ الْعَذَابُ وَمَن يُهِنِ اللَّهُ فَمَا لَهُ مِن مُّكْرِمٍ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَفْعَلُ مَا يَشَاء

22:18

أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء فَتُصْبِحُ الْأَرْضُ مُخْضَرَّةً إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَطِيفٌ خَبِيرٌ

22:63

أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَالْفُلْكَ تَجْرِي فِي الْبَحْرِ بِأَمْرِهِ وَيُمْسِكُ السَّمَاء أَن تَقَعَ عَلَى الْأَرْضِ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِالنَّاسِ لَرَؤُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ

22:65

It is the heart which sees Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) here in this world and in the hereafter. 

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Wajh Allah is here to be seen. Wajh Allah will also be there in hereafter. His glory can be seen here in this world and His glory will be seen in hereafter. His mercy, His wrath, His favors etc. can be seen here and the same will be seen in hereafter. 

وَلِلّهِ الْمَثَلُ الأَعْلَىَ وَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

16:60

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Saying that Allah will be literally seen in the Day of Judgement or in Paradise, as in we'll see his phyisical manisfestation/body, or that the "hidden barrier will be unveiled" from our eyes for us to see him, is impossible, since Allah doesn't have a physical manifestation/body, otherwise that would mean he is limited (which is shirk by the way). We humans can't look at the sun for more than 10 seconds. If we can't even see the creation, how are we expected to see the creator ?

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the most explicit verse used to prove the seeing of Allah is 75:23  إِلَى رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ   Looking at their Lord

Allah can be seen proof . 

1.) The particle  إِلَى used before  رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ means that نَاظِرَةٌ can only mean looking 

2.) the verse before 75:22  وجوه يومئذ ناضرة          [Some] faces, that Day, will be radiant       . The verse before makes references to faces which further emphasises the vision means a vision with the eyes as eyes are on faces .    

3.) Many sunni hadith speak about Seeing Allah 

Allah cannot be seen proof. 

1.) The particle  إِلَى used before  رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ means that نَاظِرَةٌ does NOT only mean looking but can mean waiting/anticipating or looking with mercy  . the proof of this is the verse Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says regarding the disbelievers وَلَا يُكَلِّمُهُمُ اللَّهُ وَلَا يَنْظُرُ إِلَيْهِمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ and Allah will not speak to them or LOOK at them on the Day of Resurrection. In this verse إِلَيْهِمْ is used with  يَنْظُرُ yet the meaning is not Looking rather it is Looking with mercy as Allah is All-Seeing according to all Muslims. So this proves the claim the sunnis use is against the quran/arabic language .    

2.) The use of the word Wajh (face) in 75:22  doesn't necessarily mean physical face but can also refer to the Entire being like {But the Wajh ( face)  of your Lord will remain, the Possessor of Majesty and Nobility} (Q. 55:26-27). Its meaning is: your Lord will remain. The word “face” is intended to denote a double meaning, as mentioned in the dictionaries of language. This can be witnessed by the statements of the Arabs: “It is the face of the opinion (huwa wajhu ar-ra`y).” “It is the right direction (wajhu aš-šawab).” The meaning of this is: “The opinion itself” and “the direction itself.”

3.) The sunni hadith which mention Seeing Allah , mention it in Jannah whereas 75:23 is in qiyamah !!  

4.)  The word نَاظِرَةٌ in the Arabic Language has many meanings like waiting, anticipating and Looking in metaphoric sense  therefore this verse is not Clear .  Rather 6:103    لَّا تُدْرِكُهُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرُ وَهُوَ يُدْرِكُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرَ ۖ    can only have one meaning has idraak when used with senses can only be referring to sight. A negation of Idraak of eyes can only mean a Negation of vision . Thus proving  6:103    لَّا تُدْرِكُهُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرُ وَهُوَ يُدْرِكُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرَ ۖ  is a clear negation of vision of Allah .

In the next post i will prove from sunni sources that 75:23  إِلَى رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ  is not clear rather open for interpterion whereas  6:103    لَّا تُدْرِكُهُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرُ وَهُوَ يُدْرِكُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرَ ۖ  can only mean a negation in Vision of eyes 

 

p.s the hadith about the Qadam (foot?) in hell , the asharis/maturidis do taweel (figurative interpretation of it whereas the wahabis take it literally but stick a " Bila Kayf" (dont know how)  at the end of it. 

proof asharis/ maturidis dont take it literally "The Arabs in their language (sometimes) use qadam to mean 'repository' (mawdi), as Allah the Exalted has said: “That they have before their Lord the lofty rank (Qadama) of truth (10:2).” This means the rank of truth “NOT THAT ALLAH WILL PUT HIS FOOT IN HELL, EXALTED IS ALLAH FAR ABOVE THAN THIS AND SIMILAR THINGS TO THAT” (Sahih Ibn Hibban, 1/502, under Hadith # 268. In Urdu Version See: 1/426, Published by Shabbir Brothers)

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4 hours ago, uar786 said:

In the next post i will prove from sunni sources that 75:23  إِلَى رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ  is not clear rather open for interpterion whereas  6:103    لَّا تُدْرِكُهُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرُ وَهُوَ يُدْرِكُ ٱلْأَبْصَٰرَ ۖ  can only mean a negation in Vision of eyes

One can say that the بصر here in this world is veiled. The veils will be lifted one day and on that day بصر will more become sharper than what it was in this world. 

 فَبَصَرُكَ الْيَوْمَ حَدِيدٌ

50:22

But still 6:103 is a decisive verse. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can only be seen in a metaphorical sense and through the medium of His creation. These physical eyes are not the tool to view Him.

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Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) 'Let him who aspires to see his Lord, First attempt to see his own soul'

Tauheed in the root of the religion, if the root of the tree is diseased there may be some level of deficiency in what it produces.. 

 

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This interpretation of seeing Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is coming from  Ash’ari dogma and Hashwiyya that represents modern Wahhabism. 
 

As for Shia viewpoint, Imam Al-Ridha (عليه السلام) said:

مشرقة ، منتظرة ثواب ربها عز و جل


Faces (on that day) will be radiant, expectantly looking forward to the rewards of the Lord Mighty and Glorified.‛

 

Edited by Abu Nur
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On 3/22/2021 at 3:47 PM, uar786 said:

75:23

The context of the verse readed from 75:22-25 is very clear both faces are representing expectation. One is expecting the reward and others expecting the punishment.

And ˹other˺ faces will be gloomy, anticipating something devastating to befall them.

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23 hours ago, uar786 said:

The use of the word Wajh (face) in 75:22  doesn't necessarily mean physical face but can also refer to the Entire being like {But the Wajh ( face)  of your Lord will remain, the Possessor of Majesty and Nobility} (Q. 55:26-27). Its meaning is: your Lord will remain. The word “face” is intended to denote a double meaning, as mentioned in the dictionaries of language. This can be witnessed by the statements of the Arabs: “It is the face of the opinion (huwa wajhu ar-ra`y).” “It is the right direction (wajhu aš-šawab).” The meaning of this is: “The opinion itself” and “the direction itself.”

:salam:

Quote

(وَلَا تَدْعُ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَهًا آخَرَ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا هُوَ كُلُّ شَيْءٍ هَالِكٌ) إِلَّا وَجْهَهُ لَهُ الْحُكْمُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ.

Except the face of Allah everything will get destroyed. (Surah Qasas 28:88)

Most commentators have said that ‘face’ means the self of Allah and everything would be destroyed before the day of Judgement and then created again. Some have said that it means the religion of Allah and His worship.

Ibne Babawayh in Tawheed has narrated from Ibne Khusaima that I asked Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) about its explanation and he replied: The face of Allah is the religion of Allah and the Holy Prophet (S) and Amirul Momineen ((عليه السلام).) were the religion of Allah and creatures of Allah they were the eyes of Allah who used to see their action by the light of Allah and they were the tongue of Allah, as Allah used to converse through them. And these gentlemen used to convey the knowledge of Allah to His creatures.

And they were hands of Allah, that is they were His mercy upon His creatures and we are the face of Allah, as people can reach Allah through us. As long as Allah desires that the conditions of His creatures should remain all right He would keep us among and whenever He wants to punish them and does not see any goodness in them, He would remove us from them. After that He would send whatever chastisement He likes upon them.

 

Quote

The dictionary meaning of ‘jamb’ is the side rib, but here it has a metaphorical meaning. Most commentators have said that ‘fell short of my duty’ refers to a decrease in Allah’s obedience or in Allah’s proximity. It has come in many traditions that the ‘Jambullah’ is the metaphor of the holy Prophet and the guiding Imams (Peace be upon them) and their obedience and Wilayat.

Thus Ali Ibne Ibrahim have said in the Tafsir of both the verses that, what ‘has been revealed to you ‘ is the Quran and the ‘best’ thing mentioned in the Quran, is the Wilayat of Amirul Momineen ((عليه السلام).) and the pure Imams ((عليه السلام).). That is why ‘Jambullah’ refers to the Imam.

Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) said that we are ‘Jambullah’.

In Ihtijaj there is a tradition from Amirul Momineen ((عليه السلام).) that a person asked Ali ((عليه السلام).) the explanation of difficult verses of Quran. Imam replied: ‘Jambullah’ refers to the chosen ones and the friends of Allah. He wanted that to appoint a proof for them in the Quran so that the position of the Vicegerent of Allah and his nearness becomes apparent. Don’t you know that when a persons says that a person is sitting by the side of another person, it means he is a near one of him?

Similarly it a metaphor used in the Quran to show the nearness of special persons which the Imams appointed by Allah and their friends can understand and their enemies may not make any changes in it, and may not remove it from the Quran as other verses were excluded. Allah has made their eyes and hearts blind and they did not understand this verse.

From the same Hazrat it is narrated that he said: We are the treasurers of the religion of Allah and the lamps of His knowledge.

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol3-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/part-39-side-allah-face-allah-and-hands-allah

https://www.shiavault.com/books/a-shi-ite-encyclopedia-chapter-9/chapters/5-seeing-allah/

 

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