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In the Name of God بسم الله

Could covid-19 be a conspiracy?


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”Some views expressed below may not reflect the consensus of the scientific and health care community, and instead are dangerous claims based on dubious information and conjecture. Please consult credible sources and legitimate health care professionals for medical advice.”

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What's most appalling is how all these big tech companies and governments are stifling free speech and discussions about the virus and the vax. They don't allow a free flow of information.

In facebook, if you write a post and say that HIV is a harmless virus and all sorts of things, they don't do anything. You can say that the earth is flat, that AIDS doesn't exist and they leave it up there. But say the slightest thing about the virus or the vax, and your post instantly gets taken down and in many cases, the account gets suspended

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On 9/5/2021 at 1:03 AM, 313_Waiter said:

Any thoughts on the connection between Mark of The Beast (Revelations in the Bible) and the vaccine?

سلام  Well, firstly “Mark of the Beast” cannot in anyway be categorized in terms of a medical procedure—also, the “Mark” is not at all something that could be accidentally taken—branding of the "Mark" has to be done purposely and deliberately and with full coherence/conscientiousness—this is because the Mark of the Beast is a symbol closely tied to worship of the Beast—the Mark of the Beast is a mark of loyalty and devotion to the Antichrist/Beast/666 system.

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On 9/23/2021 at 10:54 PM, Dubilex said:

In facebook, if you write a post and say that HIV is a harmless virus and all sorts of things, they don't do anything. You can say that the earth is flat, that AIDS doesn't exist and they leave it up there. But say the slightest thing about the virus or the vax, and your post instantly gets taken down and in many cases, the account gets suspended

Because the other items on your list aren't currently a global pandemic.

People who claim the earth is flat may be broadcasting their stupidity, but that's about the limit of the damage that they can do.

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On 9/27/2021 at 10:24 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Because the other items on your list aren't currently a global pandemic.

People who claim the earth is flat may be broadcasting their stupidity, but that's about the limit of the damage that they can do.

But in facebook, you're allowed to say that AIDS doesn't exist. AIDS is also a pandemic. It kills more people every year than many other diseases. In theory, someone can see that post, have unprotected sex and encounter the risk. That's really not a good excuse to stifle freedom of expression. 

Anyone who thinks these big corporations censors speech out of altruism, the supposed goodness in their heart, is incredibly naive

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11 hours ago, Dubilex said:

Anyone who thinks these big corporations censors speech out of altruism, the supposed goodness in their heart, is incredibly naive

I hate to break it to you, but Shiachat is not a big corporation and we'd do the same as Facebook, in this instance. If a small number of loony tunes made a post saying that AIDS does not exist, we'd likely ignore it. 

But if as is currently happening (around the internet and on this site) we had a dozen crazies questioning covid 19, yes we would take action. It's a matter of scale. And specifically in the case of Shiachat we know that visitors to this site are more likely to belong to demographic groups that are vaccine hesitant and we don't want to encourage that.

There's plenty wrong with Facebook, big Tech, big Pharma etc.but wild conspiracy theories are actually detracting from the real problems with them.

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30 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

we had a dozen crazies questioning covid 19

I think most people are not doubting covid 19. They’re doubting the facts surrounding it and how it is being used for more control.

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On 7/24/2021 at 8:51 AM, Northwest said:

There are also plenty of good sources to the effect that nuclear weapons do not actually exist, the Moon landings and all “space” exploration were/are hoaxes, and so on. The more I read, the more skeptical I become about virtually all of modern “science,” that is, everything that has been posited since the Renaissance.

So are you questioning e.g. moon landings? And how do you assess a source to be 'good'?

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10 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

I hate to break it to you, but Shiachat is not a big corporation and we'd do the same as Facebook, in this instance. If a small number of loony tunes made a post saying that AIDS does not exist, we'd likely ignore it. 

But if as is currently happening (around the internet and on this site) we had a dozen crazies questioning covid 19, yes we would take action. It's a matter of scale. And specifically in the case of Shiachat we know that visitors to this site are more likely to belong to demographic groups that are vaccine hesitant and we don't want to encourage that.

There's plenty wrong with Facebook, big Tech, big Pharma etc.but wild conspiracy theories are actually detracting from the real problems with them.

The question is, who defines what is and what isn't "misinformation"? Who defines what is and what isn't "conspiracy theories"? Last year, Facebook would instantly ban you if you dared to suggest that the virus originates from the Wuhan lab. And now? It's perfectly plausible that the virus originated from the Wuhan lab and it seems to be the likely origin. I mean, this kind of censorship changes by the day. The Wuhan lab origin illustrates perfectly the urgent need for free and open discussions instead of letting just a few corporations decide what we can and cannot say. Many doctors has become ostracized just for presening alternative theories.

Right now, it's just a few giant corporations who arbitrarily decides what is and what isn't "misinformation". And that is just another word for the kind of censorship that exists in China and N.Korea

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4 hours ago, Dubilex said:

The question is, who defines what is and what isn't "misinformation"? Who defines what is and what isn't "conspiracy theories"?

When you put it like that the advice of anyone able to upload videos to YouTube could be considered equal in merit to articles published in leading medical journals. Ultimately you have to choose who you want to believe, I've shared tweets from people who I consider to be expert, benevolent and with integrity (the commonly accepted bases for trust). 

Their advice tends to be fairly orthodox and cautious (e.g. mask wearing, social distancing, vaccinating), though often in conflict with UK government advice.

The basis for the difference is often the British government's priority is to protect the economy (otherwise known as protecting the interests of businesses). Whereas people like Prof Christina Pagel have argued that protecting health needs to be the primary concern.

For me there certainly is a conspiracy.

It's a conspiracy promoted by people who try and downplay Covid-19 which is precisely the line various businesses would like to see promoted. They sponsor groups proclaiming 'freedom', but it's just the freedom to spend your money on a latte so that Starbucks can pay the rent on its premises and provide a return for the capitalists.

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2 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

When you put it like that the advice of anyone able to upload videos to YouTube could be considered equal in merit to articles published in leading medical journals. Ultimately you have to choose who you want to believe, I've shared tweets from people who I consider to be expert, benevolent and with integrity (the commonly accepted bases for trust). 

Their advice tends to be fairly orthodox and cautious (e.g. mask wearing, social distancing, vaccinating), though often in conflict with UK government advice.

The basis for the difference is often the British government's priority is to protect the economy (otherwise known as protecting the interests of businesses). Whereas people like Prof Christina Pagel have argued that protecting health needs to be the primary concern.

For me there certainly is a conspiracy.

It's a conspiracy promoted by people who try and downplay Covid-19 which is precisely the line various businesses would like to see promoted. They sponsor groups proclaiming 'freedom', but it's just the freedom to spend your money on a latte so that Starbucks can pay the rent on its premises and provide a return for the capitalists.

You talk about choice, and that right there is the problem. Big tech wants to rob you of the choice to believe in who you choose to believe in. They present a narrative for you and you must accept it and if you have a different viewpoint, you get banned. Again, the Wuhan lab origin is the perfect example 

Empirical evidence has shown that different countries have different aproaches to deal with the corona crisis and the narrative changes by the day. 

Again, any alternative theory or dissenting viewpoint is labeled as "conspiracy theory". There are many doctors out there who has different viewpoints, but they get censored and ostracized. Just like with the Wuhan lab origin last year. It would be much healthier to let ALL experts present their opinions, and not censor anyone that goes against the narrative. This kind of censorship is what they do in China

Anyone who supports this kind of censorship might as well move to North Korea or China

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This thread is interesting and more than that, if you search twitter for 'covid predicted predictable', there are lots of hits.

 

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On 9/30/2021 at 1:02 AM, Dubilex said:

Anyone who supports this kind of censorship might as well move to North Korea or China

I think a lot of people have been taken in by the American/Western 'freedom' Kool-Aid, certainly they've been whacking us Muslims over the head on Shiachat for at least the last nearly 20 years that I have been here.

In reality that 'freedom' mantra worked within a given, fairly stable, unthreatened environment where the political, military, industrial complex was so powerful that it could handle any dissent, that was primarily around social and economic issues. Nevertheless this was presented as the epitome of human development.

It's now been shown to be kaput when you are dealing with a natural phenomenon against which the usual tools of the state are powerless. In this situation the methods used by countries we have been taught to despise are actually more effective. If you allow anti-mask/anti-lockdown rallies by the politically motivated it can cause the germ of doubt to breed within the weak-willed and ignorant.

Yes banning them curtails freedom of expression etc. but honestly that was always a chimera.

So, for example, there need be no continued debate around masks. There's enough evidence that they work and when someone wears one it protects others, so at a social level they should be mandatory. No ifs or buts. 

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10 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

I think a lot of people have been taken in by the American/Western 'freedom' Kool-Aid, certainly they've been whacking us Muslims over the head on Shiachat for at least the last nearly 20 years that I have been here.

In reality that 'freedom' mantra worked within a given, fairly stable, unthreatened environment where the political, military, industrial complex was so powerful that it could handle any dissent, that was primarily around social and economic issues. Nevertheless this was presented as the epitome of human development.

It's now been shown to be kaput when you are dealing with a natural phenomenon against which the usual tools of the state are powerless. In this situation the methods used by countries we have been taught to despise are actually more effective. If you allow anti-mask/anti-lockdown rallies by the politically motivated it can cause the germ of doubt to breed within the weak-willed and ignorant.

Yes banning them curtails freedom of expression etc. but honestly that was always a chimera.

So, for example, there need be no continued debate around masks. There's enough evidence that they work and when someone wears one it protects others, so at a social level they should be mandatory. No ifs or buts. 

You haven't really addressed the point about the Wuhan lab origin and the censorship surrounding that.

And any information coming out of China is not reliable due to the heavy censorship and filter of information they have there. Anyone who blindly swallows chinese state media is no better than anyone who blindly believes CNN. 

There are a number of countries that haven't had any draconian lockdowns that has done very well.

I recall the golden words of Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.". Those who advocate for dictatorships and supports draconian lockdowns, are diametrically opposed to Islam and it's principles of justice

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2 hours ago, Dubilex said:

You haven't really addressed the point about the Wuhan lab origin and the censorship surrounding that.

But we've had similar many times previously.

Turkish war crimes in Armenia hidden or exposed depending on how pro/anti Israel the Turks happen to be. Blame for 9/11 focused initially on Iraq, but blaming the Saudis is an option that has clearly been kept open as and when the West wants to have a pop at them.

It's the same with the Wuhan option, when the West wants to turn up the heat it will be covered and when it does not it will be toned down. The Trump era was a bit weird though, responsible media had to compensate for Trump's madness.

One reason for the latter is that you don't want Chinese groups living in the West to be harassed - which was happening when Trump started calling it the Chinese virus. 

2 hours ago, Dubilex said:

There are a number of countries that haven't had any draconian lockdowns that has done very well.

There are also countries that have had a very liberal approach and have suffered greatly as a result, Brazil comes to mind. And the state of Florida also shows how you can't assume it will just go away.

A British Iraqi doctor who was taking my behaviour modification class recently told me that she had gone to Iraq to do some voluntary work. According to her, Iraq had been spared during the Alpha wave, but Delta was having an impact on the country.

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21 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

So, for example, there need be no continued debate around masks. There's enough evidence that they work and when someone wears one it protects others, so at a social level they should be mandatory. No ifs or buts. 

Exactly! Not only has mask-wearing (as well as hand-washing, staying home when sick, and socially distancing) slowed the spread of Covid-19 infections but it has helped reduce the spread of influenza to unbelievably low levels. See the following reports from the CDC and Scientific American:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htm

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-has-disappeared-worldwide-during-the-covid-pandemic1/

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Quote

Sweden’s hands-off approach to the pandemic left it with Covid-19 infection and death rates per capita higher than the figures for Norway, Denmark and Finland combined. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/we-were-like-family-how-covid-strained-bonds-between-nordic-neighbours

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The Galileo fallacy is a logical fallacy that asserts that if your ideas provoke the establishment to vilify or threaten you, you must be right — "everyone says I am wrong, therefore I am right."

That's what seems to be happening.

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13 hours ago, Reza said:

The Galileo fallacy is a logical fallacy that asserts that if your ideas provoke the establishment to vilify or threaten you, you must be right — "everyone says I am wrong, therefore I am right."

That's what seems to be happening.

 

You have one of the inventors of mrna vaccine you have the creator of pcr test, you have several scientist, doctors and nurses worldwide, some who even work for the vaccine manufactorers. Yet it falls under the galileo fallacy according to you?

What does it take for you to raise an eyebrow? Honest question.

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10 hours ago, slavelight said:

 

You have one of the inventors of mrna vaccine you have the creator of pcr test, you have several scientist, doctors and nurses worldwide, some who even work for the vaccine manufactorers. Yet it falls under the galileo fallacy according to you?

What does it take for you to raise an eyebrow? Honest question.

I’m not commenting on anyone in particular.

Just a general observation that “we’re being suppressed” is often emphasized by conspiracy types to boost credibility. Some people see this as an important prerequisite for the viability of a position. In other words, the more marginalized something is, the higher chance there’s truth in it. That’s a logical fallacy that many have, but won’t acknowledge.

The search for truth is hampered by the psychological need to feel victimized and be a contrarian. Of course, the pendulum swung the polar opposite direction can also be problematic. 

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Throughout history elites, nations, organizations, agencies, thinktanks etc. have worked together in secret in order to unleash surreptitious exploits there's no reason for thinking this practice has stopped/ceased—Saddam working hand-in-hand with al-Qaeda, Saddam and weapons of mass destruction (WMD), 9/11 Attacks by 19 Arab coconspirators—when "conspiracies" help catapult the Eurocentric imperialist narrative then they're considered acceptable and logical—Syrian "civil war" being instigated by outside agitators, Israeli covert logistics assisting ISIS fighters in Syria and Iraq, Sykes-Picot Agreement ,etc., are all examples of brown people allowing their imaginations to run wild from the perspective of Middle America—Yesteryear’s "conspiracy theory" often become today’s incontestable fact—MK-ULTRA turned out to be a real government program, Dalai Lama turned out to be a CIA informant, Big Tobacco knew cigarettes caused cancer for decades, Tuskegee Experiment actually occurred, USS Maddox staged a hoax attack on non-existent Viet Cong torpedo boats in order to provoke further escalation of the Vietnam conflict and the list goes on-and-on—term "conspiracy theorist" is simply a new boogie man expression like the propaganda term "terrorist"—or "infidel" or "heretic" used in medieval Europe against non-Christians or anyone questioning the official orthodox view of the Catholic church—people are being manipulated all the time in order to protect the existing state of affairs.

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On 8/10/2021 at 3:54 PM, slavelight said:

Let's hope he's not a target now.

 

On 9/5/2021 at 1:20 AM, slavelight said:

This video just got deleted. Does anyone remember which video this was?

 

On 9/5/2021 at 6:57 AM, 313_Waiter said:

This was it I think

Deleted again.

his name's dr dan stock  'Mt vernon school meeting'.

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The Most Popular Stocks Owned by Congress

Out of the 433 members of Congress that have reported their financial information publicly, over half of them are millionaires. In fact, there are over 50 members of Congress with a net worth of $10,000,000 or more. To find out how they continue to build their wealth year-after-year, we've put together a list of the top 10 most popular stock investments held by members of Congress.

And while this list may not come as a shock to some, the fact that Congress is allowed to buy and sell securities, while simultaneously making policy decisions about these companies, presents an interesting conflict of interest. If a member of Congress is on a committee to govern how a certain company can operate within a given sector, should that member be allowed to trade its stock?

10 Most Popular Stocks Owned by Congress in 2021

Here's what Congress is currently invested in:

Organization Total Investors Minimum Investment Maximum Investment
Apple Inc 79 $9,654,688 $38,853,590
Microsoft Corp 66 $6,777,342 $23,462,249
Bank of America 59 $2,146,215 $5,659,133
Walt Disney Co 52 $2,124,962 $8,104,907
AT&T Inc 49 $1,222,407 $2,821,355
Pfizer Inc 47 $2,630,444 $8,206,395
Johnson & Johnson 47 $2,545,111 $4,688,062
General Electric 47 $647,604 $1,390,563
Exxon Mobil 45 $6,688,238 $23,178,183
Alphabet Inc 45 $2,656,348 $6,543,273

Pfizer & Johnson & Johnson. Don't wanna draw any conclusions. But perhaps there's some conflict of interest.

 

https://investinganswers.com/articles/10-most-popular-stocks-owned-congress

 

 

 

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^ so what's the take away?

Do you get vaccinated or don't you? Yes you do. 

Do you get a booster or don't you? Yes you do.

Do you help big Pharma boost their profits? Yes you do.

Just the same way as you boost the profits of big banks, big auto, bid edu and so on.

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On 10/19/2021 at 2:20 AM, slavelight said:

Pfizer & Johnson & Johnson. Don't wanna draw any conclusions. But perhaps there's some conflict of interest.

 

As Haji pointed out, you do what you gotta do.

Of course there is conflict of interest. There always will be. Human beings will always try to take advantage of other people's situation, exploit them etc. Whether they are rich or poor they will do that. How many a times have we seen a person who experienced the struggles of the less fortunate, be blessed to have their situation changed, only to look down on the very people they used to be and exploit them?

That's life.

But ironically this happens to be the same thing you can depend on: their greed. They rarely push out a failed product, particularly in a pandemic, because they will suffer huge losses now and the rest of their lives.

 

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The following video shows you where the OP can take you. It's a sad, funny and frightening conclusion. People should watch all of the video. This is not a parody. These anti-vaxxers are serving legal notices on a UK hospital.

If you are patient enough to watch beyond 50 seconds you'll hear a reference to the Pope controlling all businesses ...

 

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On 8/11/2021 at 9:19 AM, slavelight said:

I took this video from another thread. from 12:30 he talks about a virus from china, flu-like virus that spreads like wildfire. Note, this interview is from 2010. very interesting and raises many questions.

 

I’ve seen it before but this is pretty crazy I must say

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