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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Guest Puzzled

Assalam aaleikom

I am a Christian who reads about Islam for reference purposes. Could you please explain the practice and justification for Mutah in modern times in simple terms because I have tried reading about it, Youtube videos, etc. and I dont understand how this is allowed in a faith that is so strict about gender segregation, how men and women should interact, and so on. I also watched an extremely disturbing documentary about this practice in Iraq and I have seen some topics about it here; I am struggling to understand how people commenting on here seem so conservative in many other aspects of life but apparently this is all fine?? 

If it were some ancient Mesopotamian cultural practice that were refusing to die I would understand but it's actually being encouraged here.

As in a contracted time for (maybe) having sex and then going your separate ways as per "haram", "westernised" dating app culture; this is so confusing to me.

Excuse me if I have worded this in a way that offends anybody but I honestly find this phenomenon so disturbing.

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No one has any problem with Fornication and adultery and gender mixing with christians themselves inviting me to their Singles Mixers. But Mutah is the enemy of society and something poisonous to everyone. 

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On 2/25/2021 at 10:39 AM, Guest Puzzled said:

I also watched an extremely disturbing documentary about this practice in Iraq

I would highly highly recommend you hear what we think of this documentary: 

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Guest Syed Ali

Islam and Quranic word of Allah encourages sex. Hadiths from Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and his successor Imams ((عليه السلام)) also encourage the muslims to have active marital life, not necessarily monogamous. 
 

Sexual relations have been given status of pleasurable activity, something which refreshes the mind and helps individuals to realise their full potential. No wonder sexually liberated societies have been more successful. Most of the modern day inventions have come from people belonging to religions other than Islam or even atheists, while we muslims arr debating if it’s okay to watch movies. 
 

The only issue Islam has, and rightfully so, is the issue of illegitimate children. In a mutah marriage, when a man and a woman have sexual relationship, it is vital that the woman cannot have sexual relations with any other man during the same menstrual cycle. This is also scientific as if sexual relations with more than one man were to occur in one month, how can anyone be absolutely 100% certain regarding the paternity of the child if pregnancy were to occur. And in case both men happen to be brothers, even DNA tests won’t be 100% sure shot.

 

Sex with two or more men within the same menstrual cycle is adultery, zina, fornication..whatever you want to call that. If you ask how it makes any difference..read up stories on the internet wherein brother and sister got married because they didn’t know they had same father and their mothers also couldn’t tell them because of way too many sexual partners.

I feel we should know the rules and the limits but should not go into extreme mode where any social interaction between boy and girl is abhorred, cutting off any opportunity to interact and enjoy beautiful bonds. I feel some of the present day shia clerics have gone overboard. I will stop on this.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best. 

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Guest Puzzled
On 2/25/2021 at 2:49 PM, El Cid said:

No one has any problem with Fornication and adultery and gender mixing with christians themselves inviting me to their Singles Mixers. But Mutah is the enemy of society and something poisonous to everyone. 

Hahahaha! Why the vitriol bro/sis? Oh dear. If you dont want to go to a Christian Singles mixer, dont! I certainly dont! Lol. :D

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2 hours ago, Guest Puzzled said:

Hahahaha! Why the vitriol bro/sis? Oh dear. If you dont want to go to a Christian Singles mixer, dont! I certainly dont! Lol. :D

 

[Edited]

We're fine with sex. We have no problem with people having sex. But only in wedlock, whether it's Mutah or permanant marriage. 

Wasalam.

Edited by Abbas.
Please avoid personal attacks
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Guest Puzzled
11 hours ago, Guest Syed Ali said:

Islam and Quranic word of Allah encourages sex. Hadiths from Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and his successor Imams ((عليه السلام)) also encourage the muslims to have active marital life, not necessarily monogamous. 
 

Sexual relations have been given status of pleasurable activity, something which refreshes the mind and helps individuals to realise their full potential. No wonder sexually liberated societies have been more successful. Most of the modern day inventions have come from people belonging to religions other than Islam or even atheists, while we muslims arr debating if it’s okay to watch movies. 
 

The only issue Islam has, and rightfully so, is the issue of illegitimate children. In a mutah marriage, when a man and a woman have sexual relationship, it is vital that the woman cannot have sexual relations with any other man during the same menstrual cycle. This is also scientific as if sexual relations with more than one man were to occur in one month, how can anyone be absolutely 100% certain regarding the paternity of the child if pregnancy were to occur. And in case both men happen to be brothers, even DNA tests won’t be 100% sure shot.

 

Sex with two or more men within the same menstrual cycle is adultery, zina, fornication..whatever you want to call that. If you ask how it makes any difference..read up stories on the internet wherein brother and sister got married because they didn’t know they had same father and their mothers also couldn’t tell them because of way too many sexual partners.

I feel we should know the rules and the limits but should not go into extreme mode where any social interaction between boy and girl is abhorred, cutting off any opportunity to interact and enjoy beautiful bonds. I feel some of the present day shia clerics have gone overboard. I will stop on this.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best. 

Thanks for your answer; it was interesting to read. So the only reservation from your point of view is the issue of paternity?

Not that it's spiritually and emotionally damaging, or a misuse of God's gift of sex, to have several sexual partners just for the "pleasurable" nature of it?

And your mention of rules and limits is the point. Another poster attacked me for enquiring about this as a non-Muslim from a "Christian society full of fornication and gender mixing".

But what is the essence of having so many regulations - can't shake hands, can't look the opposite gender in the eye, can't dance in front of the opposite gender, must cover your hair, etc- if it has the same outcome as people who do all those things?

Marrying and divorcing just because you're "allowed" to, to me just sounds like making use of a loophole. ie. Sex via "the rules"  vs. Tinder sex or FWB. The outcome of all three of these is exactly the same.

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10 hours ago, Guest Puzzled said:

Thanks for your answer; it was interesting to read. So the only reservation from your point of view is the issue of paternity?

Not that it's spiritually and emotionally damaging, or a misuse of God's gift of sex, to have several sexual partners just for the "pleasurable" nature of it?

And your mention of rules and limits is the point. Another poster attacked me for enquiring about this as a non-Muslim from a "Christian society full of fornication and gender mixing".

But what is the essence of having so many regulations - can't shake hands, can't look the opposite gender in the eye, can't dance in front of the opposite gender, must cover your hair, etc- if it has the same outcome as people who do all those things?

Marrying and divorcing just because you're "allowed" to, to me just sounds like making use of a loophole. ie. Sex via "the rules"  vs. Tinder sex or FWB. The outcome of all three of these is exactly the same.

Thanks for your response.  Your questions do reflect sincerity of intentions and I much appreciate them.

Firstly, with regards to the BBC documentary, it is reprehensible if young girls are driven to sell their bodies because of poverty. The idea of ‘mutah’ is primarily for enjoyment of both parties concerned. 

Gender segregation in Islam mainly serves to protect women from unwanted attention. These rules of separation and covering are guidelines and not the essence. The main pillar is that no adultery is to be committed. In the islamic narrations, one can find mention of adultery of the eyes, adultery of the hands etc, for example when shaking hands if it arouses desires (of course this depends on the setting). For example, if there is a woman with a husband/partner who dances with other men or wears revealing clothes, which could place her in a situation wherein she could get induced to commit adultery or she gets attacked, then it is not allowed. On the other hand,  if there is an unmarried girl who is seeking a man and she does not apprehend harm, the rules of segregation and covering could be relaxed. So, these rules are contextual and have to be understood keeping in view the main pillars of Islam (and Christianity and Judaism), which is total avoidance of adultery. 

If you want to read more, I could suggest websites such as wwe.hubeali.com, wherein you get English translation of some of the canonical books of Shia faith.

Islam in practice is not necessarily what was proscribed. A large segment of the people are still guided by their respective cultures and those sometimes supersede religious laws. I have seen prominent shia clerics vehemently opposing the practice of mutah, to the extent they stopped mutah matchmaking websites. Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) had said that if mutah was freely allowed then only a wretched individual would do adultery. I think you will agree that even in the case of priests and nuns, many sexual crimes were perpetrated because of the promotion of celibacy ideas. All these corrupt practices, including the exploitation of children in iraq bbc documentary, happen because societal rules overpower religious rules. Almighty God has given us rules to follow but our societal egos replaces good with evil. God has promulgated ease, it is our choice if we want to do permanent or temporary marriage. By the way, I just wish to clarify that I am in permanent marriage and have no intention doing mutah anytime.

The moral values of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are similar, as these are commandments from the one and only God. We are all brothers as being same creation of the Almighty God. We should strive to be the foremost in moral values and achieve excellence in all things good. It is futile to fight which religion is most correct, rather our aim should be to seek the most correct moral values.

God, the almighty knows best.

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13 hours ago, Guest Puzzled said:

Not that it's spiritually and emotionally damaging, or a misuse of God's gift of sex, to have several sexual partners just for the "pleasurable" nature of it?

Hello. It's mentioned in both of our books that even Biblical Prophets had multiple partners. Prophet Moses p.b.u.h springs to mind.

 

13 hours ago, Guest Puzzled said:

But what is the essence of having so many regulations - can't shake hands, can't look the opposite gender in the eye, can't dance in front of the opposite gender, must cover your hair, etc- if it has the same outcome as people who do all those things?

Marrying and divorcing just because you're "allowed" to, to me just sounds like making use of a loophole. ie. Sex via "the rules"  vs. Tinder sex or FWB. The outcome of all three of these is exactly the same.

To be fair to us, mutah is considered something you can do, not something you should do and some high Islamic figures have even discouraged it. And even with mutah there are many limitations. You can only do it with divorced women or widows or independent women. You could get parent's permission, but good luck with that lol. In order to do mutah, the woman has to have lost her virginity through a lawful marriage (except if she has parent's permission or is independent). With these limitations, it becomes clear that it's not a toy for the youth to have fun with. And 99% of women are automatically forbidden to approach.

And on top of that, how difficult is it to pull this off with the limitations that you've mentioned? It's clearly not a part of our lives, but because young men always have sex on their minds, the topic frequently comes up and people think it's a pillar of our religion. Out of all the Shia I've met, I only knew ONE person who actually did mutah properly and lawfully.

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12 hours ago, Guest Syed Ali said:

The idea of ‘mutah’ is primarily for enjoyment of both parties concerned. 

And that's it? Purely enjoyment? But to what end is such a seemingly random burst of hedonism in an otherwise highly proscriptive religion/way of life allowed?

What about the spiritual and societal side-effects of doing this? Even if it's not an instance of sexual exploitation or slavery and all the correct protocols are followed, it still seems counter-intuitive to have established such a system in the first place. 

12 hours ago, Guest Syed Ali said:

Gender segregation in Islam mainly serves to protect women from unwanted attention. These rules of separation and covering are guidelines and not the essence. The main pillar is that no adultery is to be committed. In the islamic narrations, one can find mention of adultery of the eyes, adultery of the hands etc, for example when shaking hands if it arouses desires (of course this depends on the setting). For example, if there is a woman with a husband/partner who dances with other men or wears revealing clothes, which could place her in a situation wherein she could get induced to commit adultery or she gets attacked, then it is not allowed. On the other hand,  if there is an unmarried girl who is seeking a man and she does not apprehend harm, the rules of segregation and covering could be relaxed. So, these rules are contextual and have to be understood keeping in view the main pillars of Islam (and Christianity and Judaism), which is total avoidance of adultery. 

What you've described here reminds me of a Sunday school topic that came up when I was a teenager. We were discussing whether it was a sin to go out to nightclubs, partying, etc and were told that going to an obviously indecent environment, taking up nasty habits, dancing in close contact with the opposite gender and so on would be wrong, but going out for fun with trusted friends and not doing anything harmful to yourself or others would be fine. And the "main pillar" there was avoiding adultery, fornication, intoxication, lust, etc. The class may have been wasted on me since I still wouldn't be caught dead in a nightclub lol but is this the type of thing you're getting at?

Actually, this is the first I have heard of Islamic laws being contextual (in the sense that you've described here) or having the capacity to be relaxed. Much of the controversy surrounding Islam is due to the fact that a considerable proportion of adherents and clergy don't particularly want to relax any of it, ever. But perhaps I got that impression because I usually look at Islam through a Sunni lens.

13 hours ago, Guest Syed Ali said:

Islam in practice is not necessarily what was proscribed. A large segment of the people are still guided by their respective cultures and those sometimes supersede religious laws. I have seen prominent shia clerics vehemently opposing the practice of mutah, to the extent they stopped mutah matchmaking websites. Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) had said that if mutah was freely allowed then only a wretched individual would do adultery. I think you will agree that even in the case of priests and nuns, many sexual crimes were perpetrated because of the promotion of celibacy ideas. All these corrupt practices, including the exploitation of children in iraq bbc documentary, happen because societal rules overpower religious rules. Almighty God has given us rules to follow but our societal egos replaces good with evil. God has promulgated ease, it is our choice if we want to do permanent or temporary marriage. By the way, I just wish to clarify that I am in permanent marriage and have no intention doing mutah anytime.

I checked the hubeali website but I got a 404 on this subject. Would you be able to suggest any media for clerics who have opposed mutah and their reasons? 

Forgive me but I think promoting mutah as a solution to adultery is redundant. Isn't the point to just not be an adulterer? Just as we shouldn't be liars, thieves or rapists either?

I'm not a Roman Catholic and I dont support the idea that a priest should be celibate by dint of his profession but it's been shown that the amount of sexual crimes committed by priests is not disproportionately higher than those committed by people in wider society. So mentioning priests and nuns here is a red herring. The issue there is not celibacy but a culture of institutional secrecy and abuse of power, as well as a lack of proper safeguarding policy.

The issue of sexual crimes committed by Islamic clergy- despite the fact that marriage and even polygamy are permitted in their case- is also historically quite well-documented, if comparatively underemphasised due to various social and political factors. So it seems somewhat disingenuous for you to mention celibacy here by way of explanation for sexual deviancy among religious clergy when it actually makes no difference.

In this context I would disagree also with the statement "God promulgates ease". I dont think He does that; I think He promulgates the correct way to act, which a lot of the time isn't very easy at all! Marriage is hard, but correct! Which is why the "temporary" option doesn't exist among practicing Christians (whatever "modern" interpretations may say). Which is why it's difficult for me to contemplate Him giving us a "choice between temporary and permanent marriage". Which takes us back to the beginning again :rolleyes:

Anyway you gave me a lot to think about here, especially in that paragraph. Your post had a different line of reasoning from what I am used to hearing from Muslims and I had to read it a few times before I could form an opinion. Very interesting; thanks a lot!

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Guest Hara
11 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

It's clearly not a part of our lives, but because young men always have sex on their minds, the topic frequently comes up and people think it's a pillar of our religion

This made me LOL. So frequently people ask hypothetical questions about mutah, argue and shout about mutah, when the chances of them actually getting a mutah are less than 1%. Most mutah threads are full of men that can only dream of one :verryhappy:

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