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In the Name of God بسم الله

Umar the Brave the Warrior the Champion

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Salam.

Recently I was surprised to know this is taught in schools of Pakistan. smh

I have been combing my memory and could not recall I have read about a single war in which Umar actually fought and did not run, except no fighting took place (Fatah Mecca) or that he fled or did not take part (Badr). A child was telling me how Umar was so brave that while everyone else secretly did hijrat to Medina, he did it after announcement. I asked the child "then he was braver than the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) ?".

Anyway, the question. Notice I have not even asked about any enemy casualty at his hands. If you know of an account where he fought anything, please write here. Just for knowledge sake.

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Right! Since you don't know what the gravity of defeating a warrior in one on one combat was I will leave you to enjoy video games.    In this thread you have done something which I have nev

The same can be said for Shi'as. The way scholars and general Shi'a talk about Imam Ali(عليه السلام) in battles is as if no one else was needed there and everyone else was just standing unnecessarily

That was single combat. I'm talking about a war. One person cannot go fight an army of even 100 people by themselves, much less thousands of people. An army is needed for support but Shi'as overstate

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Not sure I've never really read about him much unless it's was direct interactions with Prophet Muhammad or Imam Ali.

Did a quick Google search and found nothing regarding battles he participated in.

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10 hours ago, Ali bin Hussein said:

Not sure I've never really read about him much unless it's was direct interactions with Prophet Muhammad or Imam Ali.

Did a quick Google search and found nothing regarding battles he participated in.

السلام عليكم,

I did a quick Google search too and found the following:

Quote

The following excerpt has been translated into English from the book “Tohfa Imamiya” by Maulana Hafiz Maher Muhammad. This passage is found on page number 370 of the booklet.

  1. Hazrat Umar Farooq openly declared that he would migrate to Medina unlike other Muslims. Taking his sword, bow, and arrow he arrived in Kabah. The pagan chiefs of the Quraish were sitting there. Hazrat Umar circumambulated around the Kabah and prayed Nawafil at Maqam Ibrahim. He is said to have gone to every polytheist and threatened them if anyone of them wants their mothers to cry, wives to become widows, and children to become orphans, he should come outside Mecca and confront him. Not a single polytheist came.
    2. During the Battle of Badr, Hazrat Umar Farooq killed the famous Quraish wrestler Al Aas Bin Hisham and Umro Bin Hisham (Seerah Ibn Hisham, Page number 778).
    3. During the Battle of Uhud, Hazrat Umar Farooq forced the contingent of Abu Sufyan to flee by throwing stones at them. (Seerat un Nabi, Pg 378).
    4. According to Seerah Ibn Hisham, Hazrat Umar Farooq was one of the companions who were present along with the Holy Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in the Battle of Uhud.
    5. During the Battle of the Trench, the place where Hazrat Umar Farooq was stationed, the pagans made the intention of attacking that position. Hazrat Umar Farooq along with Hazrat Zubair repulsed that attack. (Tabri, Pg 452).
    6. During the Battle of the Trench, Hazrat Umar Farooq forced the Quraish wrestler Zarar Asadi to flee the battlefield. (Seerat un Nabi, Pg 428).Hazrat Umar Farooq participated in all of the battles during the time of the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). But he killed a small number of people simply because like Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Uthman, he was assigned for the roles of leading and advising the Muslim forces. Further evidence of the bravery of Hazrat Umar Farooq is the annihilation of the Persian Empire and defeat of the Byzantine Empires which witnessed the golden principles of Islam to be preached there. It is logical that the destruction of these corrupt and deviant empires and opening them for the light of Islam to spread were more heroic and brave acts than personally killing disbelievers.

– End Quote –

He didn't quote that it was Omar that responded to Abu Sufyan after the defeat at Uhud at the order of رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم.

والله تعالى أعلى وأعلم، وصلى الله وسلم علي نبينا محمد وآله

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23 minutes ago, Cyrax said:

Hazrat Umar Farooq openly declared that he would migrate to Medina unlike other Muslims. Taking his sword, bow, and arrow he arrived in Kabah. The pagan chiefs of the Quraish were sitting there. Hazrat Umar circumambulated around the Kabah and prayed Nawafil at Maqam Ibrahim. He is said to have gone to every polytheist and threatened them if anyone of them wants their mothers to cry, wives to become widows, and children to become orphans, he should come outside Mecca and confront him. Not a single polytheist came.

No reference. Understandable.

25 minutes ago, Cyrax said:

. During the Battle of Uhud, Hazrat Umar Farooq forced the contingent of Abu Sufyan to flee by throwing stones at them. (Seerat un Nabi, Pg 378).
4. According to Seerah Ibn Hisham, Hazrat Umar Farooq was one of the companions who were present along with the Holy Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in the Battle of Uhud.

This goes against all known accounts. In popular sources, he himself relates that he was running for the hills, climbing them like a "mountain goat". Vague reference. Understandable.

27 minutes ago, Cyrax said:

5. During the Battle of the Trench, the place where Hazrat Umar Farooq was stationed, the pagans made the intention of attacking that position. Hazrat Umar Farooq along with Hazrat Zubair repulsed that attack. (Tabri, Pg 452).

How did he repulse an attack with a big trench in between? The only few who crossed were led by Amr ibn Abde Wadd and he was with the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) telling him how Amr was the best warrior he had seen so he could not fight him. I own Tabri's books. There is no such thing.

31 minutes ago, Cyrax said:

Persian Empire

He was never in the field of battle there either.

 

As for Ibn Hisham I am pretty certain there will be nothing of that sort in that book either. Whoever compiled that stuff is obviously failing at what he intended. But I will check it anyway.

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2 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

No reference. Understandable.

The references are found in the article I copy and pasted that from بارك الله فيك.  As per the rules of the forum I didn't to link to the site as it is ant-Shia site, but I wanted to show that quick Google search would produce the results you would want.

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The same can be said for Shi'as. The way scholars and general Shi'a talk about Imam Ali(عليه السلام) in battles is as if no one else was needed there and everyone else was just standing unnecessarily whilst only Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was going around fighting people. Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was the most excellent warrior of His(عليه السلام) time but an army is needed to win battles. He(عليه السلام) led the vanguard to victory each time due to His(عليه السلام) excellent skills but the army was needed to support all the great warriors. 

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1 hour ago, El Cid said:

but an army is needed to win battles.

The armies proved useless when facing Marhab and Amr b. Abd ul Wud at least. 

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5 minutes ago, starlight said:

The armies proved useless when facing Marhab and Amr b. Abd ul Wud at least. 

That was single combat. I'm talking about a war. One person cannot go fight an army of even 100 people by themselves, much less thousands of people. An army is needed for support but Shi'as overstate Imam Ali(عليه السلام) in all the battles as if He(عليه السلام) was the only person needed there, everyone else was just standing around and waiting to go home whilst Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was fighting a thousand people all by Himself(عليه السلام)

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1 hour ago, El Cid said:

That was single combat. I'm talking about a war.

These were wars! Battles of Khandaq and Khyber. One on one combats was an [edit]important component of war in those times. 

Edited by starlight
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On 2/24/2021 at 9:33 PM, starlight said:

These were wars! Battles of Khandaq and Khyber. One on one combats was an important component of war in those times. 

One on one combat is the traditional method to start a war. Then it turns into this:

713826-931592_20060217_001.jpg

If you can't understand what I'm saying, then perhaps sharpen your mind with some books. 

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2 hours ago, El Cid said:

Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was going around fighting people. Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was the most excellent warrior of His(عليه السلام) time but an army is needed to win battles.

Not for Imam Ali (عليه السلام) (with the Will and Power of Allah). Read the bold text:

Quote

Al-Syed Al-Razy, in Al-Khasa’is, said, 

‘It has been reported that Amir-Al-Momineen Aliasws was seated in the Masjid, when two men came up to himasws, disputing, and one of them was from the Khawarijites. Heasws delivered the judgement against the Kharijite. So when Amir-Al-Momineenasws had passed judgement against him, the Kharijite said to himasws: ‘By Allahazwj! Youasws did not judge with equality, nor were youasws just in yourasws judgement, and did not judge in the Presence of Allahazwj with Hisazwj Pleasure’. 

So Amir Al-Momineenasws said to him, and heasws gestured by hisasws hand towards him: ‘Away, O enemy of Allahazwj!’ 

 

So one who was present said, ‘By Allahazwj! We saw his clothes to have flown away from him in the air and he went on to plead to Amir-Al-Momineenasws, and the tears rolled down his face. And we saw Amir-Al-Momineenasws to have pitied him, and heasws glanced at the sky, and moved hisasws lips in a speech we had not heard before. By Allahazwj! We saw him, and he had returned to the state of the human being, and hisasws clothes returned from the air until it settled upon hisasws shoulders. We saw him, he went out from the Masjid, and his feet were trembling. 

 

We turned pale when we looked towards Amir-Al-Momineenasws, so heasws said to us: ‘What is the matter with you that you are looking and are astounded?’ We said, ‘O Amir-Al- Momineenasws! How can we not be astounded, and youasws did what youasws did? 

 

So heasws said: ‘But, do you know that Asif Bin Barkhiyaas, the successoras of Suleyman Bin Dawoodas did what was near to this matter? So Allahazwj, Mighty is Hisazwj Mention, Related hisas story where Heazwj is Saying: He said: ‘O you chiefs! Which of you can come to me with her throne before they come to me in submission?’ [27:38] A fierce one from the Jinn said, ‘I will come to you with it before you arise from you place, and I am strong upon it, reliable’ [27:39] The one with whom was the knowledge from the Book said, ‘I will come to you with it before your glance returns to you’. So when he saw it settled in his presence, he said: ‘This is from the Grace of my Lord to Try me whether I am grateful or ungrateful [27:40] – the Verse. 

 

So which one is more honourable to Allahazwj, your Prophetsaww, or Suleymanas?’ They said, ‘But, our Prophetsaww is more honourable, O Amir-Al-Momineenasws’. 

 

Heasws said: ‘So the successorasws of your Prophetsaww is more honourable than the successoras of Suleymanas. But rather, in the possession of the successoras of Suleymanas was one letter from the Magnificent Name of Allahazwj. Heas asked Allahazwj by Hisazwj Name, and the earth submerged what is between him and between the throne of Bilquis, and heas grabbed it in less than the blink of an eye. And in ourasws possession are seventy-two Letters from the Magnificent Name of Allahazwj, and there is one Letter with Allahazwj the High, Accounting by it, apart from Hisazwj Creatures’. 

 

They said, ‘O Amir-Al-Momineenasws! So if this is with youasws, then what is yourasws need to the Helpers in fighting against Muawiya and others, and youasws are calling the people to a second war against him?’ 

 

Heasws said: ‘But, They do not precede Him in speech and they are only acting by His Command [21:27]. But rather, Iasws am calling these people to fight against him in order to prove the argument and complete the ordeal. Had Iasws been Permitted with regards to their destruction, Iasws would not have delayed it, but Allahazwj the Exalted Tests Hisazwj creatures with whatsoever Heazwj so Desires to’. They said, ‘We arose from around himasws, and we magnified what heasws came with’.

 

Khasais al Aimmah : 46

 

Page 37 https://hubeali.com/books/English-Books/TafseerHub-e-Ali/CH27_SuraNamal_Verses1-44.pdf#page28 

 

Edited by 313_Waiter
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5 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Not for Imam Ali (عليه السلام) (with the Will and Power of Allah). Read the bold text:

 

Then it's pretty sad all those people died for no reason at the battle of Badr, Uhad, Trench, Siffin, Mutah. Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) should've just sent Imam Ali(عليه السلام) with a sword and the standard. Everyone else should have sat at home where it was safe. Highly irresponsible to widow so many women and orphan children for no reason if only one person was needed for the job. 

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3 minutes ago, starlight said:

Right! Since you don't know what the gravity of defeating a warrior in one on one combat was I will leave you to enjoy video games. 

 

In this thread you have done something which I have never seen even a salafis doing - undermine Ali(عليه السلام) in the battlefield.

This is from non shia sources and just about the battle of Badr. 

The battle began in the traditional Arab fashion of having a few warriors fight one-on-one before the general battle. Three warriors from the polytheists' army-Utbah ibn Rabia, Shaiba ibn Rabia, and Walid ibn Utbah-stepped up to challenge the Muslims. Their challenges were taken up by Hamza ibn Abdul Muttalib (the uncle of Muhammad and Ali), Ubaydah ibn al-Harith (a cousin of Muhammad and Ali), and Ali ibn Abi Talib.

Ali's duel against Walid ibn Utba, one of Mecca's fiercest warriors, was the first of the three one-on-one duels. After a few blows were exchanged, Walid was killed. Hamza then engaged Shaybah ibn Rab'iah and cut him down. Ubayda ibn Harith, the third Muslim champion, however, received a fatal wound from Utbah ibn Rab'iah. Ali and Hamza hastily dispatched Ut'bah ibn Rab'iah, carrying Ubaida to die in the Muslim lines.[2]

By noon the battle was over. The Quraysh fled. Forty-nine of the enemy had fallen and Ali had killed twenty-two, either alone or with the help of others. An equal number was captured. The believers had lost fourteen men on the field of battle.[3]

Ali first distinguished himself as a warrior in 624, at the Battle of Badr. He defeated the Umayyad champion Walid ibn Utba as well as many other Meccan soldiers. His art of battle was so brilliant that in the battle, there were 70 Polytheist (Mushrikeen), 35 of them (almost half of them) were killed by Ali.

Once again, No one is denying Imam Ali(عليه السلام) prowess for battles or warfare. But you telling me that Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was the only person who should've been sent to fight 2000+ people On His(عليه السلام) own in traditional battle(not single combat) is some Ghuluw levels which should not be touched. And that was my complaint with most Shi'as who say or do this. So I'll give you my original advice again, sharpen your mind so you can understand what is being said; then make educated comments instead of whatever this is. 

Wasalam.

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Even Abbas (عليه السلام) - the son of Ali (عليه السلام) was enough to face the entire enemy of Yezid and destroy it single handedly. That's why Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) never allowed him to fight and took his sword away from him because otherwise the result of the battle would have been much different. Yezid's army itself had the greatest fear of Abbas (عليه السلام). The fact that he was able to reach Furat River pushing away hundreds, if not thousands of Yezidi soldiers, without even using a sword is indicative of  his super-human warrior skills. If this is the son, imagine how the father would be like. 

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This was a genuine inquiry using sources. How did this turn into a classroom brawl between children so quickly? "My dad can beat up your dad!"

@El Cid

Cite references bro. Where in Shia sources is it written what you claim? We have no need to exaggerate the qualities of someone already stunning the human expectations. Have some justice and think rationally. There is no competition. In any field. Not even close. Comparing Ali with Umar is like comparing the sun with wet firewood. Very sad.

Ali's abilities or contritbutions need no help by Shias. Nor can they be compared to a person known to flee battles repeatedly. Uhud, Khaybar, Hunayn, wherever you look.

Edited by The Green Knight
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I can't say about individual battle feats etc.

But all the early Muslims were brave. That's a fact. You don't do what they did without courage.

And generally the culture was one of a mark of a man is battle capability. If you were a coward you would get little respect.

Imam Ali was the very best warrior of  culture built on warfare. 

Let's not cut off our nose to spite our face.

Edited by Ali bin Hussein
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2 hours ago, Ali bin Hussein said:

I can't say about individual battle feats etc.

But all the early Muslims were brave. That's a fact.

Generally back then everyone was brave, no doubt. Even the kafir. However ours was an advanced discussion. We have a lot of Islamic material that gives details, and I should encourage reading it.

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4 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

This was a genuine inquiry using sources. How did this turn into a classroom brawl between children so quickly? "My dad can beat up your dad!"

@El Cid

Cite references bro. Where in Shia sources is it written what you claim? We have no need to exaggerate the qualities of someone already stunning the human expectations. Have some justice and think rationally. There is no competition. In any field. Not even close. Comparing Ali with Umar is like comparing the sun with wet firewood. Very sad.

Ali's abilities or contritbutions need no help by Shias. Nor can they be compared to a person known to flee battles repeatedly. Uhud, Khaybar, Hunayn, wherever you look.

I'm not comparing Imam Ali(عليه السلام) to Umar or anyone. I'm merely pointing out the fallacies that exist within our own Shi'a circles first which is the over statement and exag. of Holy Figures. There are no references to cite, just look at the world around you like starlight above saying that Imam Ali(عليه السلام) didn't need any army behind him to face an army of thousands or Anon Male saying Hazrat Abbas(عليه السلام) could've killed Yazid's entire army by himself. My issue is if he means doing it without single combat. Karbala is also a very big Ghuluw issue where people go around saying that Imam Hussain(عليه السلام) and followers killed millions of Yazid's men all by themselves without single combat. What's unfortunate is that Speakers who sit on pulpits are going around preaching these things as well. Anyone who has been around the Shi'a community or listened to lectures on youtube can relate to this.

A great topic I read recently that also touched some base on what I'm saying.

So, my advice would be fix your own house before egging on someone else's.

Wasalam.

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Though I've studied Islamic Studies in Pakistan, mostly in O-levels. They don't really portray Umar as any capable warrior or mention of his warrior capabilities. What they do is Overstate his abilities as a ruler: Calling his rule as the "Golden age of Islam" where everyone was happy and all was good in the world(Not even Prophet's SW time is called this ironically), Paint him as an Admin. and jurispen. genius who knows full well how to micromanage each aspect of his rule and knows each ruling of the Quran by heart and carries them out perfectly. 

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1 hour ago, The Green Knight said:

We have a lot of Islamic material that gives details, and I should encourage reading it.

Did you check the sources بارك الله فيك?  If you would like I can send you the article by private message so that doesn't break forum rules.

But I will say بارك الله فيك, for a person who is encouraging people to read more, I'm surprised you didn't know that Omar (and Abu Bakr) were at every single Ghazwa, and were with the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم.  Did you know about the role Abu Bakr played pre-Badr?

I would recommend أحسن الله إليك that you sit down with Sirat ibn Hisham and give it a read without any preconceived notions.  Read it as neither a Shi'i or a Sunni and see what kind of conclusions you would reach.

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20 hours ago, El Cid said:

Then it's pretty sad all those people died for no reason at the battle of Badr, Uhad, Trench, Siffin, Mutah. Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) should've just sent Imam Ali(عليه السلام) with a sword and the standard. Everyone else should have sat at home where it was safe. Highly irresponsible to widow so many women and orphan children for no reason if only one person was needed for the job. 

A) Did you read the hadith?

B) Suffering is a part of life, can we dare to take it up with God?

Edited by 313_Waiter
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I have read Ibn Hisham till the migration to Medina and this

Quote

Hazrat Umar Farooq openly declared that he would migrate to Medina unlike other Muslims. Taking his sword, bow, and arrow he arrived in Kabah. The pagan chiefs of the Quraish were sitting there. Hazrat Umar circumambulated around the Kabah and prayed Nawafil at Maqam Ibrahim. He is said to have gone to every polytheist and threatened them if anyone of them wants their mothers to cry, wives to become widows, and children to become orphans, he should come outside Mecca and confront him. Not a single polytheist came.

is not in it.

I'm pretty sure the other stuff won't be there either.

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17 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

A) Did you read the hadith?

B) Suffering is a part of life, can we dare to take it up with God?

That hadith is irrevalant to my question and Your part about suffering makes no sense either. My question is this:

Everyone else should have sat at home where it was safe. Highly irresponsible to widow so many women and orphan children for no reason if only one person was needed for the job. 

It basically asks you if Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was the only person needed to fight 1000+ people alone. Then why put others at risk for no reason? Islam values life so this is very contradictory. Also can you show me some hadith where Imam Ali(عليه السلام) claims to be able to do all this? If he was able to fight huge armies alone, why did He say that He(عليه السلام) left Siffin with a heavy heart because his army became insubordinate and didn't listen to his orders? He(عليه السلام) could've just picked up his sword and charged at Muwaiya's army alone if that was all that was needed.

Do you people even listen to yourself when you make such statements? Not only do you make a mockery out of Shi'a Islam. You also make the enemies of Shi'a Islam indirectly attack Imams(عليه السلام) after you paint them as Demigods in your Ghuluw fantasies. 

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As for the OP's question.

The simple answer to your inquiry and any inquiry like this one is Islamic history and Islam itself has a focus on "hero worship" and pseudo Apotheosis. One can even say it has elements of a cult of personality in it. 

For sunnis, their hero-worship revolves around the Companions. For Shia's, their hero worship revolves around the Imams(عليه السلام). They will always over-state/exaggerate their virtues, traits, personalities, skills etc. The only problem is that the Imams(عليه السلام) take an issue with Apotheosis and over-reverence along with punishing people for it whilst people like Usman hire poets to sing their praises all day. Whether it's companions or our Imams(عليه السلام), at the end of the day both are utterly loved by the people of their respective sect and this devotion will always lead to some level of over-statement till the end of time. They are the epitome of human perfection and Islamic mysticism for their followers, the entire Shia-Sunni conflict is just the tearing down of each other's heroes until nothing is left like the purpose of this topic and the entire Shia/Sunni subsection really is at the end of the day. Just people throwing bricks at each other with no one here to learn or inquire. As we say in Urdu, "neecha ghirana". 

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15 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Ghuluw

What's funny is that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was the one who slept in the bed of Rasul Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) on Laylat al Mabat. The Imam even did a sajdah of praise and thanks to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

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12 hours ago, El Cid said:

Everyone else should have sat at home where it was safe. Highly irresponsible to widow so many women and orphan children for no reason if only one person was needed for the job. 

You sound like an atheist. If God is able to relieve suffering then why do babies die and suffer? Why do so many women get raped? You can take it up with God but sorry I am content with what God ordains.

12 hours ago, El Cid said:

If he was able to fight huge armies alone, why did He say that He(عليه السلام) left Siffin with a heavy heart because his army became insubordinate and didn't listen to his orders?

If you read the hadith you might have gotten your answer. It’s not just about winning a war but being content with what God ordains.

12 hours ago, El Cid said:

Do you people even listen to yourself when you make such statements?

Sounds a bit arrogant and “holier than thou”

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30 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

You sound like an atheist. If God is able to relieve suffering then why do babies die and suffer? Why do so many women get raped? You can take it up with God but sorry I am content with what God ordains.

If you read the hadith you might have gotten your answer. It’s not just about winning a war but being content with what God ordains.

Sounds a bit arrogant and “holier than thou”

You're still not making any sense. Please for the last time, tell me. What does suffering have to do with my question? Why do you keep bringing it up for no reason? Is there some language barrier or communication error or something like that going on? You still have not provided any credible resources for your claims, that hadith has nothing to do with my question. Let me make it as simple for you as possible:

At the battle of Badr, there were 1000 people on the side of the Quraiysh and 300 on the side of Muslims.

Your claim: Only Imam Ali(عليه السلام) is needed for battle. 

My question: If that's true. Why did 299 people go there? Could've just sent Imam Ali(عليه السلام) to fight the 1000 Quraishi's head-on and saved the lives of the 14 who were killed. 

You answer my question like this: Oh suffering is a part of life. Suffering.. Suffering.

This has nothing to do with suffering. This is about saving lives and not putting them at risk for no reason unless you're saying it was necessary to make those people suffer which makes no sense. 

If you can't answer this, It means you're just preaching Ghuluw.

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2 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

ou sound like an atheist. If God is able to relieve suffering then why do babies die and suffer? Why do so many women get raped? You can take it up with God but sorry I am content with what God ordains.

I don’t think you have the right to claim that someone sounds like an atheist just because you don’t agree with them. @El Cid is focused on a different angle on the matter than you are. 
 

Literally babies and women being oppressed and tortured have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Non-Sequituir.
 

How do you know if something is God’s orders? A lot of people use that phrase to shut down others from questioning anything in the religion. It’s also implying that some people don’t have enough faith otherwise “they wouldn’t question God’s orders”, when in actuality it’s a manipulative strategy to silence someone from asking questions or pointing out faulty logic. And another thing is that you have to remember that many hadiths are symbolic and to be taken figuratively, not quotas of arbitrary markers (such as appearance, strength, etc.) Hypothetically, a hadith can say that a prophet has pearls coming from their hands when they touch a sick person. It doesn’t literally mean that pearls fall from a prophet’s hands, but that God gave them the power to heal people of sickness by His permission. 

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Salam,

An army in a battlefield is like a train (consists of locomotive that pulls many wagons/coaches. )

 

Imam Ali(عليه السلام) is like the locomotive (engine) of a train when in the battlefield.  The engine that pulls the wagons / couches.  The wagons were the rest of the sahabas.

Without the engine, the train will not move.

Without Imam Ali (عليه السلام), battles would not be won.  

The Quresh army also had their locomotives, but failed to pull their wagons when the rail was uphill.  Engine broke down, and wagons slided backward.

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is a locomotive that will climb all hills and still pulling his wagons.

Islam needs the most brave leaders and brave followers.

Edited by layman
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On 2/25/2021 at 2:42 AM, Cyrax said:

4. According to Seerah Ibn Hisham, Hazrat Umar Farooq was one of the companions who were present along with the Holy Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in the Battle of Uhud.

Salam it has no point for him because he has ran away from battlefield & left prophet Muhammad  (pbu) alone while prophet  was in danger of killing by kuffar army which only few people like Imam Ali(عليه السلام) have remained  to protect prophet but none of three caliphs were among protectors of prophet but surly second caliph was among people who has ran away from battlefield  without caring to life of prophet  (pbu)

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Islam is not the corporate world or an MNC that only measured decision will be taken and only the required resource will be deployed. Islam is for everyone. Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is for everyone.

Imagine if Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) took only Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to the battlefields (because no one else was required) and he single handedly won all the wars then others would have given excuse - Had the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) took us instead of Ali (عليه السلام), we could have also done the same. Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) gave the opportunity to everyone. Some fought sincerely and got martyred. Most were after power and baitul Maal, so when faced with a challenge and Islam asked for their life, they ran as far as they hit city walls. That also made clear who actually cared for Islam and can be successor after Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and who was unfit to even control the rein of the horse let alone the Islamic ummah.

Throughout the Islamic history, who was the one left in face of thousands of enemies and who saved Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) life time and again, who was the one consistent and fierce warrior in all battles, who was the one saving Islam from Kafireen and Mariqeen, who was the one brave both on and off the field. 

We cannot exaggerate Imam Ali's (عليه السلام) merits, heck we can't even comprehend or fathom it. 

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40 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Islam is not the corporate world or an MNC that only measured decision will be taken and only the required resource will be deployed. Islam is for everyone. Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is for everyone.

Imagine if Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) took only Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to the battlefields (because no one else was required) and he single handedly won all the wars then others would have given excuse - Had the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) took us instead of Ali (عليه السلام), we could have also done the same. Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) gave the opportunity to everyone. Some fought sincerely and got martyred. Most were after power and baitul Maal, so when faced with a challenge and Islam asked for their life, they ran as far as they hit city walls. That also made clear who actually cared for Islam and can be successor after Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and who was unfit to even control the rein of the horse let alone the Islamic ummah.

Throughout the Islamic history, who was the one left in face of thousands of enemies and who saved Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) life time and again, who was the one consistent and fierce warrior in all battles, who was the one saving Islam from Kafireen and Mariqeen, who was the one brave both on and off the field. 

We cannot exaggerate Imam Ali's (عليه السلام) merits, heck we can't even comprehend or fathom it. 

Assalam alaikum,

Ma'ashallah, such a great reply, brother!

If only people read the khutba of Ameer ul- Mu'mineen (عليه السلام) delivered on the eve of the Battle of Siffin!

Also, we are right in the middle of the month of Rajab. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) couldn't have chosen a better time to demonstrate why Rasoolallah (S) called Ameer ul-Mu'mineen (عليه السلام) the 'furqan'. Often times the tongues involuntarily reveal what is there within the hearts.

Allahumma salli ala Muhammadin wa Aali Muhammad!

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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On 2/25/2021 at 9:10 AM, El Cid said:

One on one combat is the traditional method to start a war. Then it turns into this:

One on one combats were the most significant part of wars. 

The best warriors used to come ahead in one on one combat. They were either the commanders, best combatants etc. There presence was a moral booster. In Khayber, Khandaq, Uhad, Hunayn etc. All these commanders were basically everything for the Army.

So, yes. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and a handful of companions were the only brave warriors amongst the muslims.

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