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In the Name of God بسم الله

Any marjas allow illegitimate children to lead prayers

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I left shi'is because of the ruling that disqualifies illegitimate born people from leading prayer. I may come back to it if I'm allowed to disagree and become an imam and head a mosque and function as a community leader. I want a leadership position with the intention of contributing to the muslim community. I want to give to you not get. I mentioned in other post that I'm pursuing a carrier in the arts world but I want both

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Edited by Hameedeh
Typo in the title.
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You can not just switch between beliefs, religions or religious sects merely because of certain rulings. Seek the truth, with the help of Allah, and stick by what you genuinely believe to be the truth, even if you disagree with the rulings.

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Firstly, the aqeedah of Shiism is not based on a jurisprudential detail. Either you believe in tawheed, nubuwwah and imamah or you don't. I can't see why a jurisprudential ruling would impact your belief on these essentials. 

If someone claimed that an illegitimate child can lead prayers, would you suddenly believe in the wilayah of Imam Ali (عليه السلام)? And if that same person changed their position, would you then disbelieve? This is something you need to evaluate.

Secondly there are other criteria that determine whether one can lead prayers or not. Legitimate birth alone is not sufficient. Would you consider yourself 'aadil (just) in the sense that you refrain from the kabaa'ir (major sins) and are also not frequent or repetitive in the saghaair (minor sins)? 

Thirdly, nothing prevents you from serving and helping the community today. Leading prayers alone is not the only way to serve. 

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7 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Firstly, the aqeedah of Shiism is not based on a jurisprudential detail. Either you believe in tawheed, nubuwwah and imamah or you don't. I can't see why a jurisprudential ruling would impact your belief on these essentials. 

If someone claimed that an illegitimate child can lead prayers, would you suddenly believe in the wilayah of Imam Ali (عليه السلام)? And if that same person changed their position, would you then disbelieve? This is something you need to evaluate.

Secondly there are other criteria that determine whether one can lead prayers or not. Legitimate birth alone is not sufficient. Would you consider yourself 'aadil (just) in the sense that you refrain from the kabaa'ir (major sins) and are also not frequent or repetitive in the saghaair (minor sins)? 

Thirdly, nothing prevents you from serving and helping the community today. Leading prayers alone is not the only way to serve. 

not allowing illegitimate children to lead prayer appears to be a flaw in the religion witch makes me question the entire sect. I have a hard time believing that anyone including prophets are infalible. saying that because I was born out of wedlock I can't lead is calling me a second class citizen with diminished rights over sin my parents committed. I find it insulting and offensive to be treated that way.

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28 minutes ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

You can not just switch between beliefs, religions or religious sects merely because of certain rulings. Seek the truth, with the help of Allah, and stick by what you genuinely believe to be the truth, even if you disagree with the rulings.

I believe the ruling is incorrect witch causes me to question the entire sect.

 

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29 minutes ago, musa shakr said:

I have a hard time believing that anyone including prophets are infalible

So Allah has decided to give us role-models and guides who make mistakes? This argument is completely flawed. Allah has set us guides to follow, guides which are flawless so we know what is right, what is wrong, what we should do and what we shouldn't do and so that we remain on the straight path. If the guides have any flaw whatsoever then there will be confusion and misguidance. Furthermore:

And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity, O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification. [33:33]

Edited by Muhammad Al-Hurr
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1 hour ago, musa shakr said:

I believe the ruling is incorrect witch causes me to question the entire sect.

 

Keep the ruling aside for a minute.

Do you believe in Allah, as The One and Only God?

Do you believe in His Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) as the last of His messengers?

Do you believe in the Imamate of Ali (عليه السلام) and the eleven imams after him?

If you don't, then it doesn't matter if someone issues a fatwa or not because you are anyway not on the aqeedah of Shiism.

If you do, then your issue is with the fatwa and not with the beliefs of Shiism.

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9 hours ago, musa shakr said:

I left shi'is because of the ruling that disqualifies illegitimate born people from leading prayer. I may come back to it if I'm allowed to disagree and become an imam and head a mosque and function as a community leader. I want a leadership position with the intention of contributing to the muslim community. I want to give to you not get. I mentioned in other post that I'm pursuing a carrier in the arts world but I want both

.

In Zaidi there is no problem in it.

Taken from azaidi fiqh book

Concerning Leading the Prayer

 There is no problem to pray behind any Muslim who is a slave, a child of fornication, blind, or a Bedouin;

just as long as they know what is necessary for the prayer. There is no problem for a free person to pray

behind a bounded person (as long as he is complete in the requirements).

 The clothed person does not pray behind the naked person, the standing person behind the sitting, the

person who has made ablution behind the person who has made purification by earth (tayammum), the one

who is performing the obligatory prayers behind the person who is performing the voluntary prayers, nor a

man behind a woman or child.

 It is not permissible for the imam to be an openly disobedient person (al-fāsiq). Al-Qāsim, upon him be

peace, said: “One who has missed a prayer does not lead the prayer.”

You can find the full text here:

 https://zaidiportal.com/library

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Bismehe Ta3ala 

Assalam Alikum 

@musa shakr

The stigma is not on you.  It's the fault of your parents.

An illegitimate child can obtain heaven, be respectable and chaste.

The fiqh rulings are for the society to know the severity of having illicit relationships and producing illegitimate children.  

Question 15: Why Illegitimate Children Are Kept Away From Some Posts?

Question: Whereas we know that the children born due to illegal relations have no role in their illegitimacy and have not committed any sins, then also according to Islamic traditions they are not treated fairly. And they are not allowed to take the important posts like that of a judge, Imam-e-Jamat and Maraja etc.

Why a person who has not committed any sin, just because the fault of his parents, should be ill-treated and kept away from important posts in the society?

Some people also say that such children will neither go to Paradise nor see any goodness. Is it right? Whereas we also know that Allah will not write one person's sin in another person's account?

And no soul earns (evil) but against itself, and no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another1

Answer: Before we give the answer it is necessary to discuss the following points which are the basis of this topic and then we can conclude from it.

(1)    Due to illegal relationship, the relation between father and son is finished from the point of view of law and economics and thus it cuts off the family relationship and sentiments, which is the basis of a society. Sometimes the female doesn't know that from the sperm of which man she had become pregnant.

In this way a child does not know his father, grandfather, grandmother and relatives. And generally many ethical, psychological, social, training, family, financially and sentimental defects come into existence because of it. This is the reason that the Holy Prophets ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) and laws makers of the society prohibited things, which are against sanctity; the Shari’ah also prohibits the illegal relationship.

(2) In every community there are rules of marriage; that is why to establish illegal relationships is against the law. This is the reason that the person doing this type of deed feels guilty due to this, which stems from the sinful soul and has bad results, which arise from this type of deed.

And when a person repeats this deed or due to other factors the guilt of the person becomes less or if the fornicator does not have the feeling of guilt, then also there is a thief present in his inner self, and he become ill mannered, breaks the law, and deviates.

(3) According to the law of inheritance, like the other physical effects, inner qualities and thinking of the mother and father is also transferred to the children. In the same way the special traits of the parents are transferred to children like the color of eyes, hair, shape of the eyebrows etc.

In reality inheritance is the base for a person's future and makes the personality of an individual and prepares the ground for them for their good or bad fortune.

From these points we can derive the following results:

Illegitimate children inherit bad manners, breaking of laws and sins from their parents. For them the ground for sins and crime is more feasible. As compared to others they are more prepared for sins and if they personally get wrong training or if the environment is not good, then it is enough for them that their polluted soul, like sparks beneath the ash become fire and burn their good fortune.

As for the question about social posts for illegitimate persons, it is a logical precaution for the protection of social good on the basis of whatever is said above about their psychological state.

Islam gives much importance to persons who are supposed to take these social posts, for acquiring the confidence of the people. Therefore those families which have some defects or whose past is not praiseworthy have been deprived of posts that require spiritual purity.

But we should not be that a person of illegitimate birth has the license to commit all sins and go against the Shari’ah, and that he be deprived of true Islamic teachings and training, and he by following the right principles cannot be fortunate - No, it is not like that.

Illegitimate children also like natural and lawful children are free to choose the right or wrong path. They also with their intentions and powers can choose the path of righteousness and goodness and acquire salvation and be one of the Heavenly people. It is not that they are born criminals and at any cost cannot be freed from the web of crimes and sins, but as Imam as-Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) has said:

When an illegitimate child is prepared to perform his duties and able to do work of training, if his deeds are good he will get rewards for it and if he does bad he will be punished.

Although the rebellious nature of illegitimate children (which have more interest and are more inclined to break the laws and commit sins) makes it difficult for them to avoid sin, and it is also difficult for them to perform their duties, but if they go against their desires and follow the orders of Almighty and right principles they will be given the best of the rewards.

That is why Islam reproaches illegitimate children. It is so, to make them aware that they are facing a dangerous situation; they should fulfill their duties, remain away from sins and take precautions. It doesn't mean that knowledge and training has no effect on them and they will certainly go to Hell.

In other words those children who are illegitimately born are like those children who are born to the parents having diseases (T.B, and sexual disorders). These children have more chances of contracting these diseases and if they are not cured as early as possible they are more likely to get these diseases. This is the reason that to protect the interest of the people, those children who are possible to contract the disease of T.B. should not be given whatever food and other things are available.

Like the ill parents, illegitimate children are also prepared to break the laws and fall into crime if their training and studies are not provided in the right environment and healthy intentions. It is possible they may fall into a great depth and ally with the criminals. For those reasons, in order to protect the social cause, precautions should be taken that they remain away from some posts.

Although it is wrong as some people think that illegitimate children will never be happy, lucky and acquire salvation. They can also be fortunate and happy like other people, but as we have told earlier their inner self in comparison to others is not favorable for this; that is why they should be stricter and take more precautions.

Just as it is not necessary that consumptive person's son should also be consumptive; maybe he follows the rules of health becomes stronger than other people and may remain away from the diseases. The result is that the ground for sins is not necessarily proof for doing them but with strong intentions and good training it can be avoided.

It is important to mention that such illegitimate children if they remain staunch on the good path can acquire higher positions and a better life because they have practiced more self control.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/philosophy-islamic-laws-nasir-makarim-shirazi-jafar-subhani/question-15-why-illegitimate-children

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On 2/18/2021 at 3:55 AM, musa shakr said:

I left shi'is because of the ruling that disqualifies illegitimate born people from leading prayer.

Whenever or wherever there is organised religion  (shia islam,sunni islam etc.), there also can most easily flourish a rich breeding ground for our worst fears, our darkest guilt, and our ugliest conflicts, person to person, nation to nation and faith to faith. Whether we hold a religious belief or not, these wounds can lie deep within us and invade every part of our experience. 
It felt unnatural and limiting to support an ethic based on such a purgative "no" and carefully considered "yes" when you recognised that what you are looking for was absolutely beyond both. 
 

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On 2/18/2021 at 3:55 AM, musa shakr said:

I may come back to it if I'm allowed to disagree and become an imam and head a mosque and function as a community leader.

It is said in one of the discussion in shiachat..........
imam of congregational prayers must be bāligh, sane (ʿāqil), a Twelver Shia, just (ʿādil), of legitimate birth, and a person who performs prayers correctly. 


imam must be a twelver shia....... 
You see in my city there are approx two hundred thousand muslims, only 15000 shia (approx.) only 3 shia mosque. Hardly 50-60 people come to offer salat (where i use to pray) with the exception of month of Ramzan.
In month of moharram sometimes it is only me for washing and cleaning the mosque and to offer namaz alone. Even the baligh and legitimate imam not there, he is doing something more important. 
Whereas all sunni mosques full with muslims praying behind a non shia.
As per the statement above there namaz is not valid.
So do not bother about these rulings.

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  • Hameedeh changed the title to Any marjas allow illegitimate children to lead prayers
  • Advanced Member
On 2/18/2021 at 3:55 AM, musa shakr said:

want a leadership position with the intention of contributing to the muslim community. I want to give to you not get. I mentioned in other post that I'm pursuing a carrier in the arts world but I want both

Every person amongst the muslims should be a leader. Leader not in the sense that he shIould have a leadership position but rather that he should be of that mindset. Leading prayers is not at all everything in Islam. If you are not allowed to lead, it doesn't mean you can't contribute anything.

Many times, people standing behind in prayers are greater contributors to Islam then the one who leads the prayers.

I believe the biggest example for this is Allama Tabatabai:

One of the story of Allama Tabatabai:

Quote

Our teacher one day told me “I have never seen any one more ascetic than this man (‘Allāma). Despite being a treasure of knowledge and information, he still stands to pray in the final row of Ayatullah Milānī’s prayers amongst the travelers”.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide you.

Wassalam

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Posted (edited)
On 2/18/2021 at 10:41 AM, musa shakr said:

not allowing illegitimate children to lead prayer appears to be a flaw in the religion witch makes me question the entire sect. I have a hard time believing that anyone including prophets are infalible. saying that because I was born out of wedlock I can't lead is calling me a second class citizen with diminished rights over sin my parents committed. I find it insulting and offensive to be treated that way.

I would rather be offended at and cross with my parents for conceiving me out of wedlock and trampling over my rights just because they couldn't restrain themselves for a moment ,than being offended at a law that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in His infinite wisdom has made, and his hujaj (proofs) on earth merely taught, and rebelling against Aal Muhammad (عليه السلام).

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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